don't get this stuff taken care of. >> good gracious. if there is another government shutdown this week it's going to be easy to know who to name it after. >> the trump shutdown. >> the trump shutdown. he's bragging about it. john heilemann, he's making it easy. why is he making it so easy for democrats. then you have poor barbara comstock who represents northern virginia, she's going to be in a fight for her life. >> ga ga ga ga ga. >> we don't want a government shutdown. >> not one that's blamed on us. thanks for getting the whole party blamed there, boss, good work. >> mika, the markets, we said don't freak out. people didn't freak out and you never know, it may be volatile. i think the market is trying to figure out where it wants to land. >> money is what it's all about. >> that is the problem, regardless of how this all shakes out, you know, basically

it's out of the dire straits song "money for nothing." interest rates have been so low for so long, and i think most everybody understands that wherever this shakes out, the days of basically cheap money for investors is coming to an end. >> serge the days of close to zero interest rates. free money. >> we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. and national affairs analyst for nbc news, and msnbc, john heilemann. >> he's peppy this morning, that's not good. >> we have "time" magazine contributing editor and author of "the president's club" michael duffy. >> and msnbc contributor, kasie hunt. >> it's also -- kasie -- what are republicans thinking on

capitol hill when they did pretty well in the last government shutdown. shifted the blame to democrats. it was the schumer shutdown. democrats panicked, pulled back. now we're moving towards a new shutdown and the president of the united states is saying i would love a government shutdown. republicans, what say they? >> they say they're not interested in a government shutdown. and for who wants it? actually feels like capitol hill is getting somewhere. i mean chuck schumer, mitch mcconnell seemed to be relatively on the same page. they're talking about this big major budget deal, they've been governing from crisis to crisis, for so long this would clear the detection for two years. let them actually set those levels. it had been all tied up with immigration. democrats after the shutdown said okay, fine, we're going to try and strike this deal. this could likely keep the government open this week. and it seems like the president feels like perhaps he won the last round and so he seems anxious to you know try and

figure out if he can use it to his advantage. but i mean the reality is, nobody is really listening to what the president is actually saying. they're listening to what john kelly is saying behind closed doors. every time the president makes a move he doesn't seem to follow through or he changes his mind. and something completely different is the ultimate outcome. >> it's almost as if -- he has a short attention span. >> i watched the "rocky" series a couple of weeks ago. here's the thing about sequels, in order to keep them interesting, the sequel has a different ending than the first one. rocky loses the first one, but wins the second one. it's not going to be the same story. the second time around. hey, let's do that again. >> i've said this before. everybody says when does, when does everything catch up to trump? it's not a lie. it's not an outrageous comment. it's not even all of the racist attacks he makes for some reason, none of this, it's not, it's not a sex scandal with a

porn star that he pays off, that would get let's say 9 out of 10 presidents. it's not that. for -- >> 99 out of 100. >> it's not that. it's when he gets predictable and it's when he gets boring. this is a reality tv show. and i'm not being glib about it. this is a reality tv show. people like watching this guy go crazy. this is, this is the kardashians come to washington. when he gets predictable, when they say "i've seen this before" when they turn it off and say, you know -- by the way -- >> when it starts to seem like the normal washington, another shutdown? great. >> and seriously is, i've seen this series before. they're repeating the same thing as before. and michael duffy -- i always go back to this. as a younger guy, i was shocked

that the great communicator after about six years, could go out, he could give the same exact speech, he could try to get 100 million measly dollars for the contras in central america. he would give the same speech and chill was go up and down my conservative spine. and the rest of america yawned. and i realized then that every president has a sell-by date. for reagan it was six years. but with donald trump, because everything is so amped up, it's going to obviously, it's going to come sooner. >> yeah, i'm a little worried about this movie sequel metaphor of john's. you know because i always thought that after the third "jaws" movie you began to root for the shark because it got so boring. you know you knew what was going to happen. >> that might only be you, duffy. >> it might be only me. but reagan was different. people liked him. they tolerated him. they actually you know had deep affection for that man.

and that was a difference. and it's a difference-maker for presidents in good times and bad. we're not quite at that point with trump. and you know, i think kasie nailed it this morning when she said essentially governance and responsibility may be about to break out here and that's a relief, it looks like they're going to do this deal this morning. and everybody is going to get a little more money. we'll see if that flies in the house. but that is for us, i think, a win. and whatever the president may have said yesterday about wanting or welcoming a shutdown. >> mike, following up on what michael said about reagan was likable. everything goes back to johnny carson for me. carson was likable, you could watch him every night. he was invited into your home. he was even invited into your bedroom. because there wasn't the sharp edge to him. again, trump there's a lot of flash, there's a lot of anger. there's a lot of shock. there's a lot of awe.

but lasts a lot shorter than what say reagan's winning personality did. >> johnny carson didn't wear on you, he didn't exhaust you. trump does both, he wears on you and exhausts you. but continuing with the sequel metaphor, this is the first sequel, where the president in the second-part series becomes irrelevant. the senate is moving forward as if the president doesn't exist. >> he has his lawyers saying -- he's, he's not smart enough to stand toe to toe with bob mueller. so please -- i mean i saw last night, they had newt gingrich, they had who is the former nixon guy in south florida -- roger stone. >> bebe rebosa? >> roger stone who has the best nixon memorabilia. >> you can see it on the google machine. >> i would love to see the

memorabilia. >> it's incredible. he's got a nixon bong that's right up my alley. >> i don't need to see that. but okay i lost my train of thought. these guys were on tv last night and they were frantic. newt gingrich -- no, he can't go in front of bob mueller. that would be the worst idea ever. when you go back to the first thing that newt gingrich said about bob mueller, is bob mueller is a man of great integrity. a perfect choice. but they've all figured out that mueller is so much smarter than donald trump -- they think so. i would never say that. but everybody close to him thinks, mika, that he's going, he's too stupid. he's too dishonest to sit down and talk to bob mueller. and i don't know if i were donald trump, that would hurt my feelings. >> but if you look at the "washington post" i think tallies, it's five lies a day. can you imagine an hour with bob mueller? my god. >> the man can't open his mouth

without a lie popping out. >> somebody is going to compel him to talk. so they're kicking the can down the road a little bit. >> i would just say it is, it is remarkable that you work for somebody and you admit, four people admit to "the new york times" that he cannot be trusted to talk to an officer of the court without lying. >> how would you feel about it if your lawyers were saying that kind of stuff, not just saying it, but saying it to "the new york times." >> and also we may be -- you'll get this. i don't think anybody else will. kurt flood. free agent. but major league baseball didn't want to sue kurt flood because they knew they would lose and it would open pandora's box. it's the same thing here with donald trump's lawyers. they can do all of this maneuvering. but at the end of the day, mueller is going to say i need a subpoena. it's going to go all the way to the supreme court. i don't think trump's lawyers

want to lose that, because then that opens the door for the next question. and the next question. and the final question to go to the supreme court which is -- can the president of the united states be indicted. >> the interesting thing about kurt flood, again, going back to metaphors now, nobody around kurt flood was panicked about what kurt flood was doing. all the people were saying yeah, kurt, go ahead. nearly everyone around the president of the united states is in a state of panic about the spectacle, the spector of him having to testify before bob mueller. >> mika, i've never seen anything like it. they do not trust him to be smart enough to do this. >> or just to tell the truth. >> or to tell the truth. i don't know what is worse. >> they think any interview is a perjury trap. if you could sit with mueller, it's a perjury trap. >> and to go where you began, this is a reality show and most reality shows, if you think about the most popular ones out there, they do crazy things, you

basically watch people push the envelope on life and on norms. and they course in our society -- coarsen our society. and this reality is doing the same thing, except to our democracy. that's the parallel. on capitol hill they're trying to get things done. trying to figure out a deal. here's mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer compared to the president, talking about potential shutdown. >> senator schumer and i had a good meeting this morning about a caps deal and the other issues we've been discussing from some, for some months now, i'm optimistic that very soon we'll be able to reach an agreement. >> i'm very pleased to report, my meeting with leader mcconnell went very well. we're making real progress on a spending deal. that would increase the caps for both military and middle class priorities on the domestic side

that democrats have been fighting for. i'm very hopeful, very hopeful, nothing is done yet, there's some outstanding issues. >> if we don't change it, let's have a shutdown. we'll do a shutdown. and it's worth it for our country. i'd love to see a shutdown, if we don't get this stuff taken care of. if we have to shut it down because the democrats don't want safety, and unrelated, but still related, they don't want to take care of our military? then shut it down. we'll go with another shutdown. >> we don't need a government shutdown on this. we really -- i think both sides have learned that a government shutdown was bad. it wasn't good for them and we do have bipartisan support on these things. >> you can say what you want. we're not getting support from the democrats on this legislation. >> if you put this up in the senate -- >> we'll see, we have to get that. they are not supporting us. >> can you then clarify would the president rather see a shutdown or a short-term

spending fix this week? >> again, we are not advocating for the shutdown. that's the fault of the democrats, not being willing to do their jobs. the president wants a long-term deal and he wants to get a deal on immigration. and we hope that democrats will come to the table and get those things done. >> so kasie, the leaders, the republican and democratic leaders both said that they were moving close to a deal. did i count the president talking about wanting a shutdown seven or eight times? any idea what's going on there? why, why did he lead with his chin and let the american people know that he really wanted a government shutdown? >> well i think there seems to be a minor misunderstanding about exactly like what is on the table here and how the government is funded and why it shuts down. i guess i can understand that because democrats tied immigration to a government shutdown. but they have now untied those two pieces. so to have a government shutdown, the president would assuming that congress gets it together on the short-term spending bill, which right now

it seems as though it's going to, to basically find its way through and then we may have this bigger deal as well. the president would have to veto that in order to have a government shutdown and there still would be no deal on immigration. i was having a little bit of trouble following. >> so is the president -- i won't ask the question, i'll just say what everybody knows. the president was lost yesterday. it was as if he had not been keeping up with what was going on on capitol hill. what his own staff members were telling him. what he said was completely disconnected from reality, wasn't it? >> it's becoming a common problem with the president and negotiations behind the scenes on the hill. congressional leaders think one thing, they go to a meeting, maybe with the president or they watch the president say something in public and then they take actions based on that. and both sides, republicans and democrats, have learned that that is unreliable. that those moments and those promises are unreliable.

and that they learn later on, from the podium, sarah huckabee sanders, or john kelly behind closed doors on the hill, that they just, they simply cannot take action based on what they hear from the president. it's really, it's quite remarkable. it's become our normal. but it's really quite remarkable and new and a different way of governing and doing things here. at the end of the day on immigration it's going to come down to whether speaker ryan is confident that whatever he would put on the house floor president trump would sign. i think john kelly is going to give him the indication and the sign on that. and that's what's ultimately going to determine whether we have a solution for the daca kids, if there's no appetite for a shutdown on capitol hill they're not going to let what the president said yesterday stop them. >> it is really republicans do tell me, this is like nothing they've ever seen before. of course democrats -- say it as well. is that the president is completely disconnected by what's going on. his staffers tell him, you know

he's got people on the hill that are very connected with the negotiations. but he is, he's strangely disconnected. maybe he's just not paying attention. but i think -- you can go back in american history and time and time again, when we've gone through these difficult times, you know we've just ordered up a military parade. i remember you know, back when the red sox won in -- >> countries do that -- >> that's the soviet union and north korea, isn't it? >> yes. the leaders watch it and look at them. >> never mind. the president, this is very autocratic. who would ever guess this president would be autocratic tendencies. >> can you imagine if it happens? the images are going to be pro-nista. this would be a thing.

it will not, it will not go off without incident, right? >> we just don't do military parades. >> military parades? not part of our great american tradition. >> well president trump has asked his top military commanders to plan a military parade. >> we have to tell him no. >> the pentagon spokesman confirms that the department is quote looking at possible dates. >> tell him no. >> adding that november 11th is veteran's day and that's a possibility. >> i have a great idea -- >> yeah. >> why don't we get, and i'm dead serious, why don't we get vietnam vets some korean vets, get vets from the wars, to march. those that have already been to war. perhaps those who are still carrying the scars of those wars. let them march and on veteran's day and we can applaud them.

that would be great. >> i don't think that's exactly -- >> that happens all over the united states now. >> i'm saying why doesn't the president organize that? have the pentagon organize that and have the largest veteran's parade in american history. where veterans can come together from all of these wars. and talk through the challenges they still are facing in peace-time, 30, 40 years later. >> it's more about power and being saluted. it's not about actually respecting the sacrifices of people who love our country so much that they would lay their lives on the line. >> a lot has happened over the past 14 months since donald trump was sworn in as president. this is the saddest thing to my mind. i mean we have been at war for 17 years, we have had nearly two decades of sacrifice and sorrow borne by less than 1% of the american public. the american military is the strongest, the proudest, the best in the world.

the american military and the american people do not need a parade we need peace. >> why doesn't the president direct the pentagon to double down with the va, john? to make sure that our men and women who are still suffering in afghanistan, who are suffering from the scars of afghanistan, and from iraq, and from vietnam, why doesn't he put his focus on us actually as a country, taking care of the men and women who have already given their all? >> you got a ptsd crisis from the veterans who served. you've got suicide, extraordinary plague of suicides among veteran who is have served as mike said. how about you take the millions, and it will be millions of dollars that's going to go into planning this alleged parade, take that money, earmark it and put it into ptsd counseling and

services, use that money to try to actually help the people who have already made these extraordinary sacrifices for their country. >> how many suicides per day? >> it's a horrifying number. >> a year or two ago we were well over 20 suicides a day from our men and women in uniform. >> let's bring in nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nichols, what more can you tell us about what's behind this request. are we misunderstanding it? >> no, you have it clear. the president gave a directive to the pentagon if there's one thing we know about the pentagon, they're a planning organization and number two, when they get what they perceive to be a directive or an order. their commander-in-chief tells them to do something, they're going to do something. the most surprising aspect of the story was the speed with which the pentagon confirmed the "washington post" scoop. it was about 12 hours ago this story broke in the "post." a whole bunch of reporters were running around trying to match it normally it's very difficult

to figure out what was said inside the tank. that's where this order was given about two weeks ago, according to the "post." the pentagon said yeah, sure, we're looking at dates, it's out there, it's a request and we're going to figure out how to do it. so their planning organization and they follow orders and that has implications across a whole lot of policy arenas. guys? >> hans, i would guess, maybe i'm wrong, but secretary mattis, a man who was in iraq from the very beginning, who warned american leaders not to go to iraq, who warned american leaders against bremmers debaathification. who was there in fallujah when hell rained down, i would guess general mattis would be the first person concerned about this. any chance we would see push-back from the secretary? >> i think it's unlikely. when secretary mattis, a former marine corps general came up, spent almost 40 years in the

marine corps, when he gets orders, he follows them. now the fundamentals of the relationship between mattis and trump is that mattis challenges trump, right? those were the rules written when they had their first interview. mattis challenged him on three things, on russia, on torture, and one other issue, think the importance of nato. so mattis has shown a willingness to challenge the president and disagree with him. it seems like this is an order who was given from the president. the president clearly likes military parades. he talked about this back in 2011. >> do you think it may have been leaked because they want to get this genuinely bad idea out immediately so these kind of conversations -- you say things like this never leak. well, they got it out fast. you think it was to kill it? >> my reading of the pentagon on this is that they don't think it's a bad idea. and it doesn't seem like the white house thinks like it's a bad idea. they think this is celebrating the troops. celebrating the america's military might. you remember how impressed president trump was when he saw the bastille day extravaganza

when he was in france, it's two hours, it's not entirely unprecedented. 1991 there's a gulf war parade. >> maybe he should move to france. if he likes what they do in france better than here. >> yeah? you know i don't know how if he would order one or two baguettes, that's the trick when you go to france, order two baguettes. >> you've seen how the president eats pizza? >> i've seen how hans eats pizza, too, and it's not pretty. >> straight to the mouth. >> nichols, he's a thug. >> the government shutdown and a military parade it doesn't seem like a good mix. >> of all the people you talk about and the president's club, ike, and his open suspicions about the military that he served in all of his life, of course the famous warning atted end of the presidency, about the

military industrial complex. this seems like of all the president's you have studied. the one that knew of the horrors of war the most, dwight eisenhower, would think this was an absolutely horrific unamerican idea. >> i think he would say it was over the top and ill-timed. but asking around the pentagon yesterday, i can tell you that it is quickly confirmed, hans is right. and i'm beginning to think it might happen. i put more stock, joe, in your theory that the pentagon isn't as for it as they might seem. i think they drag their feet on this since we first heard him ask about it almost six months ago. and they finally obviously said okay, we're looking at dates. that doesn't mean that they're like you know, we're putting tanks on rail cars yet and sending them east. there are no tanks anywhere near the city. it might turn out to be something just like with troops. but i think you can no longer imagine this isn't a possibility. a number of our presidents have been trained in the military.

carter went to annapolis, ike of course. but president trump, went to military school. he has a love of the uniform, he surrounded himself with generals, he talks about his generals as if they're his. he obviously likes as mika said, being saluted. he imagines that generals will do exactly as he says. in fact the military is much more clever than that. and they have their own way of slow-walking things. i think they've tried to slow-walk this. now they're past the point of being able to take that tactic. i think there is the reason it was so easy to confirm is i think they would like to start a conversation about whether this is a good idea. and they've done that. but they are not passive players here in this conversation. at all. >> clearly the president was impressed and admired the bastille day parade in france, it took two hours in length and it was over and it was impressive. how about if the president of the united states takes two hours and walks through

arlington national cemetery and woe recognize the responsibilities of what it means to be commander-in-chief. what it means to send young people to war. >> i'm not being, this really is not meant as being personal. but if he would just visit, if he would just visit the thousands of american soldiers who died in the jungles of vietnam -- while he got five deferments, even if he would lay a wreath at the, in arlington, the graves of i think 20 to 25 american soldiers who died the week that he was graduating from college? i think americans actually would be far more moved by that. than a showy parade that is

unamerican. that is the sort of thing that auto crats usually do. and we don't have the tradition of doing in this country. >> 50 years ago this week, the marines were in huey. >> tet was 50 years ago last week. and -- yeah. and he was, you know. in college. >> five deferments. >> five deferments. and ike was even suspicious of generals that wore all the medals. what did he call it, fruit salad? he had one. he had one. he didn't need to show anything else. he was understated. the man that helped save europe and western civilization, who drove the nazis back across europe. just -- donald trump, i know he

doesn't read. his own chief of staff said that the ten-page democratic memo was too long for him to read. i guess he circled back and said he'll get him to read it. that somebody should give him an oral history of dwight eisenhower. and before he starts talking about military parades. >> there ought to be a history channel thing he could watch. >> guerilla channel. >> history channel. >> that guerilla channel may have been the greatest fake meme in internet history. i believed it for like half a minute. >> more than that. i was like -- >> who knew there was a guerilla channel. >> where is this guerilla channel. i was about to call directv. this is some reality tv show. you know if we survive it, and -- there's still a constitutional republic at the

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democrats have flipped yet another state-level congressionalleal seat and once again it comes in a district that president trump won han handily. yesterday, 27-year-old mike ravis won a special election in the missouri state house, defeating his republican rival by three points. the district, missouri's 97th voted for trump in the 2016 election by an overwhelming 28 points. >> that's a 31-point swing for all of you who didn't go to the university of alabama. >> in 2012 mitt romney won the district by 12 points. and in another special election,

elsewhere, in the show me state, also for a state house seat, the republican candidate won by about six points and the district trump carried by an astonishing 59%. it is worth pointing out that republicans won the two other special election races for missouri state house seats last night. >> so the, john heilemann, the big battle that is coming up now on the national stage is in western pennsylvania, and republicans are worried they may lose a seat that donald trump carried by what 19, 20 points? >> yes, they are. you look at those missouri races, it is true that the republicans held a couple of those seats they were supposed to hold, but those two swings right there, are stunning and they would be, they're understastunning on their own, they reinforce every piece of electoral data that we've seen in the off-year elections in virginia, new jersey and mississippi, every

one, it reinforces the notion that a wave is coming. and there's a lot of pro trump republicans who are seeing things like the president's approval going up a little bit. looking at the generic ballot narrowing a little bit and trying to comfort themselves with the notion that maybe a wave isn't coming. you look at missouri and you say -- it still looks like a wave is coming. despite the democrats' early successes in special elections, a new piece for nbc news argues that democrats are having a banner recruiting year and it could cost them. we're going to bring in the author of that piece to explain that, next on "morning joe." ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number ♪ that you'll ever need ♪ staying ahead isn't about waiting for a chance.

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so mika, your facebook likes are getting crazier. the last couple of days, completely unmoored. baby bumba. the trans-chicken. the pig in there who you have a new name for the pig. what is it? >> well it was going to be carmelia but casey is fine. >> casey? >> kasie doesn't mind. >> baby bumba is my spirit animal. >> we almost lost her. >> i tell the story in my

facebook live. >> i love kasie. the pig -- the pig is fantastic and i love kasie hunt. i feed her on instagram live. >> oh, my god. >> i'm very uncomfortable with this naming convention situation. >> i'm uncomfortable with the whole thing. it's -- she has so many animals. >> boent be uncomfortable with baby bumba. baby bumba is like the punk rock chicken. >> we need to move on -- >> sid vicious haircut. there are times if you use the new technology, you can kick the facebook live an put it on your television. you do it with the google chromecast. so i put the baby bumba on the tv in the living room. >> i really tap into the chicken community. >> when my wife files for divorce it will be the first item she cites. >> you know what you do with your instagram stuff. yesterday julie barnicle tells me she's watching instagram. you're feeding a pig or something. and i immediately went and had a

bacon sandwich. >> oh! >> early on when i realized that -- trey parker and matt stone. bought the first couple of seasons on "south park" on dvd and their special they would have an audience. they would have bacon -- and they would feed it to their pet pig. it was like -- you can't do that. >> you know you secretly really like her. >> no, i don't. that's really loud and offensive. >> i play it. you can hear how loud she is national politics reporter for nbc news, alex sites wald who is out with a new piece entitled, democrats are having a banner recruiting year -- and it could cost them. in it, alex looks at the example of what's happening in

california. last month republican congressman darrell issa, california, read the writing on the wall and announced he would not stand for re-election. democrats cheered. then they looked at the mess on half their -- of their ballot and as one party official put it, switched from champagne to vodka. we got rid of issa, good news, but that's the bad news, because now everyone and their mother is running on our side. said someone who founded a group dedicated to flipping the district. pick a competitive district anywhere in the country and chances are you'll find more democrats running than can comfortable were fit on a debate stage and i think we saw it after the state of the union with was it five responses at least? i mean on five different platforms? >> right, exactly. i think i lost track after five. this is a too much of a good thing problem in a way. for democrats, one of the number

one pieces of evidence that they point to, why they think they're going to have a good november is this flood of strong candidates that they're getting. that is great in a lot of ways, the down side of that is there are more strong candidates than there are competitive distrigts to go around and you end one a lot of strong democrats running against each other. they're going to spend money, ding each other up. in the primary and then the really ugly part is in california. which is the central push of democrats path to retake the house, seven seats that hillary clinton won currently held by republicans. california has the jungle primary rule. so if there are so many democrats in these races and they split the vote you could end up with two republicans on the ballot in november. that's happened before. it's cost them a seat in the past and they're absolutely panicked about it especially in darrell issa's seat. >> kasie? >> alex, i'm curious what your reporting says about the dccc and other entrenched organizations are handling this wave of kpds. i've picked up on a level of

frustration that kind of reflects the difficulties younger democrats are having, nancy pelosi and others refusing to budge from posts that they've held for a long time. there's a suggestion that their recruiting efforts may be making some of those same mistakes. they're picking candidates who might have been part of the party apparatus for a long time, but don't necessarily represent a new generation. are you picking this up as you are reporting? >> absolutely there are a lot of districts with first-time candidates with interesting biographies, who are motivated by donald trump. maybe they marched in a women's march, who are running only to then have the candidate who the dccc has been trying to recruit for years finally come off the bench because it's such a good-looking year for democrats, everybody wants to run and they're all smashing into each other. the risk for the dnc, they have to tread lightly. know that any intervention will likely back-fire and it's already happened there was a really competitive district in

colorado where one democrat has accused steny hoyer and the dccc of trying to push him out of the race. interestingly in my reporting, some local groups are taking a more active role in trying to winnow the fields because they have more credibility on the ground and they can do a little bit more to cull candidates without being seen as the big heavies from washington trying to keep people out of the race. >> in your reporting, have you picked up anything in the sense of -- democrats who have been on the scene for quite a while, who have run successfully for re-election are now looking at multiple candidates running for open seats or against republicans, yet the older democrats seem to be concerned a bit maybe more than a bit about the emphasis and identity politics. of the younger democrats running. figuring they have no discipline and you're going to fracture the party with the different variations of identity politics. >> yeah, everyone is very

careful about talking about this. but there is a tension here between people who have been showing up at these local democratic club meetings for years. maybe the only ones in these republican districts. now suddenly they're flooded with new energy and that's great in a lot of ways, but they worry that some of these candidates are too progressive on medicare for all and almost every challenging, democrat sports medicare for all makes noises towards that or some of these identity politics issues that you're talking about there. and it's created a kind of interesting conundrum for progress i have beens. i talk to the head of the progressive caucus. they have a new pac they're trying to step up and engage. they don't know what to do, because they have so many candidates who agree with them on these issues that they themselves are having an embarrassment of riches. >> alex sites wald, thank you very much. we'll look for your new piece on nbc news.com and coming up, we talk to the number two democrat in the senate, senator dick

durbin coming right back. bp's natural gas teams use smart app technology

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so, big day, mika, today. >> yeah, what's that? what's going on? >> big anniversary. what's on this day in 1964? >> the beetles landed in new york city. >> oh my gosh, i'm playing the beetles in the kitchen yesterday. >> changed everyone's life. >> yep. >> changed everything. changed music. changed culture. they came here -- >> changed everything. >> changed america. >> changed america. >> basically invented youth culture. >> yeah. >> that's true. >> and basically invented the american teenager. so much of what happened over the next 30 years started right that day. >> yeah. >> okay. back to the news, a spokesperson for republican senator ben sass ripped president trump's pick to serve as u.s. ambassador to barbados. trump's nominee had reportedly shared conspiracy theories about trump's political opponents

during the 2016 election. yesterday sasse's spokesperson said he should feel free to pit on his tinfoil hat and visit our office with his salacious conspiracy theories and cucko allegations. i'm sure senator sasse will be willing to evaluate the specific evidence for his claims, but it's got to be more than a stack of national enquirer's, cynics and nuts will have a hard time securing senate confirmation. last month, a con-air executive will face senate confirmation. if confirmed, he will also serve as ambassador to st. lucia and nievis. >> a little push back from the republican. >> little bit.

one of the reasons why i like ben sasse. >> you know, there's been a couple nominations -- well, at least he's making them. >> i want to pick up on something really quickly before we go to break, james has been talking about for some time and it is a great point. republicans can make statements. i'm glad -- this isn't directed at ben sasse. a lot of republicans make statements. there's a lot of republicans suggest they're very concerned by what's going on, but it would just take a couple, two republicans to say, no. this is wrong. a military parade is not democratic. and you can do what you want to do, but go lbj on them. i'm going to look long and hard before we support this or before we support that. or you can talk about the dreamers. mr. president, you made a promise and then you slandered the entire continent of africa. we, two, we three, who are not

running, let's start with bob corker and jeff flake. those two men could change. >> the course of the history. >> the course of history. they could change washington. they could stop donald trump's worst ideas. >> yeah. >> and push back against his most autocratic tendencies. >> if they went a little beyond talking to doing. >> and let's say good morning paul ryan. >> oh, no. it's too far gone. >> i think that's a lost cause. >> that train has left the station. that's what i'm most surprised about, though. i know it's coming from me it's nothing. >> it is sad. >> i really am surprised. >> there are two republicans. i've known him since he was 22. >> yeah. >> i like the guy very much. i really do. i like him very much. i don't get it. but i don't get a lot these days. from a lot of other friends. and family members. coming up, the deal makers versus the disrupter.

president trump threatens a government shutdown over immigration reform. the thing is, congress moved on from that conversation three weeks ago. we'll talk about that and bring in the chairman of the conservative house freedom caucus mark meadows. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ all because of you yes or no? do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts? $1.50 futures contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online.

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don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched 'yeahhh.' yeahhh! try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. no satellite needed. senator schumer and i had a good meeting this morning about

caps deal and the other issues we've been discussing for some months now. i'm optimistic that we'll be able to reach an agreement. >> i'm very pleased to report my meeting with leader mcconnell went very well. we're making real progress on a spending deal that would increase the caps for both military and middle class priorities on the domestic side that democrats have been fighting for. i'm very hopeful, very hopeful. nothing is done yet. there are some outstanding issues. >> if we don't change it, let's have a shutdown. we'll do a shutdown and it's worth it for our country. i would love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care of. if we have to shut it down because the democrats don't want safety and unrelated but still related they don't want to take care of our military, then shut it down. we'll go with another shutdown. >> we don't need a government shutdown on this. we really do -- i think both sides have learned that a

government shutdown was bad. it wasn't good for them. and we do have bipartisan support on these things. >> you can say what you want, we're not getting support from the democrats. >> if you put this bill up in the senate -- >> we'll see. that's one bill. but we have to get there. they are not supporting us. >> so donald trump said shut down seven times there. barbara come stock, who actually is in a terrible district this year. i mean, she had to fight hard to win that district in the best of times. but terrible district to win this year and she's trying to tell the president, wait, mr. president, please don't kill my political career, sir. >> i don't know if you know this or not, mr. president, we're negotiating on the hill and things are moving along well and the president pushes back on what is the reality. speaking of pushing back, we have thaul t in all in a second. somebody's mike is wrestling. >> that's okay. >> no, i can't go on. >> no, really, it's okay. >> so, front page, mika, your

father would obviously your father was so disappointed in what was happening in this country, you had to stop reading the paper to him the last two weeks of his life. there is no doubt he had some concerns about the government in poland, though he didn't express it, but right here straight on right here. >> front page story "the new york times". >> front page story "the new york times." you take the jump over, the polish government, another government that is going backwards, pushing back against freedoms, which causes great pain to mika and i'm sure others in her family, but they have now outlawed the term polish death camps and you can be arrested for even suggesting that poland was complicit in the nazi regime and here we have young boy and a family of jews being rustled up

and taken out of the warsaw ghetto. of course auschwitz, the most infamous, the most gruesome death camp in poland. you've actually visited. >> i've been there, yeah. check out the piece, especially as we look ahead at what is going on here toward the future. it's under 48 hours to go until a deadline to avoid another government shutdown. yesterday the house approved a continuing resolution to fund the government yesterday in a 245-182 vote. the measure now heads to the senate where leaders are expected to re-write the bill to not only avoid the shutdown but also get a longer term budget deal in place. >> that sounds great. >> no. >> so they've come together. >> no. >> everything is -- this is really -- this is good. >> no. >> this is dandy leons and pup by dogs. >> the president didn't seem to get it. >> all running around in a happy

field. >> they do like to run around the ridge. that congress has decoupled the immigration fight from the funding battle. he doesn't seem to understand that. with us this hour we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, national affairs analyst for msnbc news, john hyalman, "time" magazine, michael duffy, nbc news capitol hill correspondent -- get it ready -- and host of kasie-dc, kasie hunt. and joining the conversation, we have national correspondent for the washington post, phillip bump. >> did you just say foghat. >> on television it's 7:03 a.m. that's awesome. >> we have to do the t-shirts. >> we have to bump out slow ride. >> a big sunday we're going to preview it with t-shirts and donny is going to wear a tank and it's going to be tight. >> i don't want to hear about that. >> that's what he says. can't wait. >> i just threw up, not a little

bit but a lot in my mouth. michael duffy, i don't even know where to start here. you have the president of the united states once again completely disconnected from the reality of the situation. what is going on on capitol hill? is republicans and democrats are moving towards a deal but he gets people around his table in the white house and, one, including a very endangered republican congresswoman in northern virginia and says we need to shut the government down eight times when that conversation is off the table right now. >> yeah. >> how do you write about this 20 years from now in the third edition of the president's club? >> well, it's interesting this morning in particular because by the time he had said that most of the immigration stuff had been set aside from the budget and decide to simply punt on that or at least kick it down the road a while. solve the budgetary problems and

move on so they didn't repeat the disaster of two or three weeks ago. that's a strange lack of communication from the hill and the white house that should have been avoidable. we've seen what he's done what he's always done whether it's on the treason, on the military parade, on the use of the word shutdown and even in whether he's going to testify, which is that he kicks up a lot of sand in all of our faces, both to sort of distract us from either his negotiations with mueller or what's going on in the stock market or what simply the looming shutdown to -- and i think throw the democrats off their stride. >> right. >> but it's not really presidential. it doesn't actually -- he's not doing what a president is supposed to do, and i think it's partly because he doesn't quite know what a president is supposed to do. he just doesn't have a clue. and that's really the problem. and it makes it hard to write about. the president much less what it

would be to write about with some hindsight. >> so much is distraction. his treason remark when i saw it i just rolled my eyes and said, okay, yeah, the stock market is collapsing right now. so he's going to call the democrats treasonist. again, i brought up the part in the book where he slandered mee karks lied about mika, tried to face shame mika, said a lot of really terrible things. the president, not howie and lied repeatedly in this tweet that actually got front page coverage all over the world. like one of my favorite tweets was -- there's a picture of a chinese newspaper, there's a picture of donald trump, melania and mika. >> oh my god. >> and the person wrote, i don't read mandarin, but i know what this headline says. >> that's deflection. >> but you read the book and scaramucci is saying it's wrong to do it and trump says is anybody talking about the russia investigation? and scaramucci says no, it's a

good story. >> that's a good way to run a country. he calls the markets collapsing, done nothing but drag about the market. he embraced it. it's my market. it's going well all because of me. the market collapses and is it a coincidence at that time he decides to call democrats treasonist? >> you have to make a choice to some extent, right? i think it is certainly the case that there are times in which donald trump deliberately tossed his grenades out there. something like the shutdown comment yesterday, i don't know if i'm willing to grant him that that was some sort of strategic maneuver. i think that was probably more function of his a, not being part of the integral conversation on the hill with what's going on with the budget. >> within that shutdown comment, he made sure he brought up if we're going to help our military and he was talking about if they don't give us border security we're going to shut it down. we're going to shut it down.

you don't think that was for his base? that was all for his base. >> oh, i always think everything he does is for his base. that's certainly the case. but what i'm saying is i don't know if it was a strategic decision to try and change the terms of the conversation because i'm not sure he understood what the terms of the conversation were at that moment. >> i don't think he wants peace. >> no, he wants drama, absolutely. >> he does not want peace. if the democrats are making peace with the republicans, that's bad for donald trump, right? >> that's bad. peace is -- there's a reason he tweets on saturday morning, an international media figure who knows him very well says a lot of times he just can't stand not being in the headlines, so he'll wake up on saturday morning and he will just roll a grenade out there just to watch it explode and laugh at the media's response. >> most of us spend most of our time trying to avoid needless fights, conflict. nobody likes to get down in the mud and roll around with the pigs. he just is the classic example he likes to be in conflict. he likes to have chaos.

his visceral reflexive, resting state where he's happiest is when he's fighting with people whether he's right or wrong, whether it's supposedly benefits him or hurts him. doesn't matter. he likes being down in the mud rolling around with the pigs. >> a lot of the people in his base they just like him fighting. they don't care what he's fighting about. they don't care if it seems autocr autocratic. a lot of times he does things that he knows are autocratic and sound autocratic because he knows it will shock and stun the press. >> yes. we think when we call him an autocrat, somehow that's a damning thing. bring it on. call me an autocrat. go ahead. >> he looks up to vladimir putin, erdogan, it's the leader in the philippines duterte. it's the most autocratic people. >> his first trip was to poland. >> china is actually tightening

their grip and becoming less free by the day and he actually salutes that. congratulations on your great victory. it's unbelievable. we need to do a little side bar, kasie, before we move on to explain to people who don't follow this closely about exactly what's happening. why were the democrats willing to go to the mat over daca a couple weeks ago but now they're not. >> i know. >> some polls have come out over the past couple weeks which actually re-enforce what had we said here, lot of people in the media may not like it. i talked about this massive disconnect between where americans are on immigration and where the media is on immigration, where elites are on immigration. most americans agree with donald trump and stephen miller's view of immigration whether you want to call it chain migration or whether you want to talk about the lottery, whether you want to talk about only wanting highly

skilled immigrants in this country. there have been a lot of polls out over the past couple weeks and none of them are good news for democrats. >> i think democrats realize that the shutdown strategy was a mistake, whether it was shutting down in the first place, whether it was folding and not following through. there's been a lot of criticism of it. the fixing things for the daca kids is very broadly popular, but tying it to a shutdown kind of risked, i think, that from a political perspective. that is certainly one part of what's happened here. i think that the other part of what's happening here, though, is that there actually is a little bit of trust that seems to have broken out between chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell and mcconnell is out there saying next week i'm going to open up the floor of the senate. this is something that we never see. we forget this because the government has been run this way for so long -- >> kasie, can you explain to people who are watching the show who may not care for mitch mcconnell, he may not be their

cup of tea, but can you explain something about mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer that unlike other republicans, let's say some in the house, mitch mcconnell loves the institution of the united states senate and knows that he is going to be around in that senate longer than donald trump and that actually when he makes a commitment to democrats -- and yes i know on twitter you're going to give me the 30 ways that mitch mcconnell has lied -- but when all of america is looking at you and you go to your democratic friends and you say, trust me on this. i will open up the floor. that it is more likely than not that majority leader mitch mcconnell or in the future possibly majority leader chuck schumer are most likely going to do just that. it is still a club. they still like each other. they still talk to each other. >> there was a point, joe, where that trust was at an all-time

low. i think it's still a bit tenuous, but mitch mcconnell is a man who follows through, whether you like what he's doing or you hate what he's doing. he will say i am not going to allow merrick garland to come up for a vote in the senate. lo and behold that's what happens. he is saying here and said at the microphones with a smile on his face, which is as you know mcconnell is pretty famous for his rather dower demeanor, i would say, he said look let a thousands flowers bloom next week. we never see an open floor debate. this again is going to be over the issue of immigration. he's essentially saying whatever anybody can get 60 votes for, i will do that. it's a remarkable commitment. so i think that's another piece of this big debate. >> he also knows, mika, being around when george w. bush tried comprehensive immigration reform with john mccain and ted kennedy that he is holding and his party is holding a strong hand for the very reasons we just talked about which is most americans

again don't shoot the messenger, read the polls, most americans are far closer to stephen miller's views on immigration than they are nancy pelosi. that's just the political reality if you look at the polls. not on daca. >> right. >> but on just about everything else. so if you're going to up the senate floor, go ahead. whatever you want to do, i'm fine. >> white house chief of staff john kelly made some controversial comments yesterday about daca recipients. in remarks to reporters, kelly touted the administration's immigration plan, which would provide citizenship for up to 1.8 million people, which is more than democrats had sought. explaining the difference in the numbers this way -- >> there are 690,000 official daca registrants. and the president sent over what amounts to be two and a

halftimes that number to 1.8 million. the difference between 690 and 1.8 million were the people that some would say were too afraid to sign up, others would say were too lazy to get off their asses but they didn't sign up. >> but i got to tell you, the rest of them who are now claiming not even claiming have been granted essentially daca status by the president of the united states who has become the champion, i believe, for 1.8 million people who are now considered daca, i got to say that some of them just should have probably gotten off the couch and signed up. >> mike, why would john kelly talk about daca recipients that were too lazy to get up off their asses and sign up? >> well, john kelly is a good man. john kelly is a very conservative man. john kelly is a product of many things but one of the more important things that he's a product of is marine corp. recruit depo paris island.

he is an enlisted marine. he is very conservative and is a believer in the chain of command, what he said was terribly unfortunate, terribly sad and not accurate because it cost $500 to apply for a daca card. i don't know a lot of people when we see them all of us see them, go to a gas station early on a saturday morning, watch them gas up their lawn moe wers and you know they're here illegally. go to the hospital. $500 to apply for daca application. so that's a lot of money. >> you see those people and you don't think lazy. that's not the first word that comes to mind when you think of undocumented workers in america. >> what's he doing, phillip? playing to the president's lowest common denominator or playing to the base? are he and donald trump both playing to the base? >> they believe it. he believes it. >> that's exactly right. >> who believes it? >> i think john kelly believes it.

it's important to remember before he was chief of staff, he was the guy in charge of donald trump's immigration crackdown for the department of homeland security. he was the guy who put into motion the entire apparatus we've seen flushed out over the course of donald trump's presidency. i don't think he was in that position by chance. he strongly believes in donald trump's vision for how immigrants should be treated in the united states. you're right, he is absolutely conservative and repeatedly demonstrated since he's been in the chief of staff position that he doesn't usually -- he's not comfortable with speaking to the public in a way that the people are used to hearing. we saw that last summer as well. this shows. >> but michael duffy, though -- >> he's not very good at it. >> although, look, he's also very smart man. he knows what he's doing. do we really believe he suddenly becomes a salty general from paris island only when he starts talking about immigrants, people who aren't white? >> he's more of a hawk on immigration than trump is and

that's saying something. and that's been clear for six or eight months, even as you said phillip before he got to this job. you know, when i was covering the defense department, i used to try to interview marine generals any chance i could because they could be relied upon to say almost anything inappropriate. they were just more unguarded, more frank, more off the cuff. and that has stuck with this former general, this marine for all the way through. so, i think what we're seeing here is someone who should be quiet behind the scenes chief of staff, not someone sort of like a james baker or leon panetta. >> i would be far more comfortable if the first time he talked about people being lazy. which i'm sure there are many recruits and many people that served under him that he shouted don't be lazy. get off your ass. i'm sure used very salty language, but in this position, this is the first time i've heard him use salty language and i don't think it's a mistake that he was using it about

immigrants in the middle of a government shutdown battle over immigration in which the republicans are holding a winning hand. >> chief of staff walked into the white house briefing room a few months ago and attacked african-american congresswoman and the most recent president of the united states and told a story that proved to be demon stra bli false because there was video and audio of it things had taken place down in florida. i can tell you there are an awful lot of african-americans who detected racial an mist in the way that played out and the chief of staff never apologized for that story, which was just not true. it was made up. and so i think there's a pattern here where on these issues that touch culture and touch race where the chief of staff is not that far away from where donald trump is on some of these issues. >> that's loaded. we'll leave that right there and get to our next guest. earlier -- >> our next loaded segment. >> we brought up president trump calling democrats treasonist for

not standing to clap during his state of the union. the white house is pushing back at senator jeff flake who called out the president for those comments. sarah huckabee sanders tells reporters that the white house doesn't really care what the arizona republican has to say. let's bring in law professor jonathan turly has a new column on the widespread talk of treason that seems to be breaking out in washington. >> so, jonathan, we've seen lists over the weekend of times in the past, but democrats have suggested republicans are either treasonist or hostage takers or acting like terrorists. i remember when i was in congress, i haven't said that in a couple months, republican members in our own coalition would accuse us of being terrorists and hostage takers. so, this happens on both sides and happened with don jr.

you had several people including the president's former top political aide saying that don j had committed treason. can you just tell us what exactly is treason? and what are the penalties for treason? and should republicans and democrats alike both cool it? >> let's start with the last question, the answer is yes. you know, the framers had an interesting position on treason. they tried to take this word off the table in our political discussions because when our country was formed it was very common for the crown to accuse people of being traders and to take their land and imprisonen them. and people like james madison wanted to stop it. wanted to create a standard constitution is one of the few occasions for this type of action where the crime is defined in the constitution itself and it's there to make it

more difficult to allege someone is a trader. a trader under the united states law and constitution is really someone who is involved with the country who with which we are at war. someone who is doing something that is truly undermining like a wartime treasonist act. the problem we have today is that people seem to mean it, you know. the rhetoric of treason has been around a long time. it's irresponsible. it's reckless, but people increasingly seem to mean it. they're saying that, you know, trump should be charged with treason, which is facially ridiculous. and trump is responding by saying, you know, maybe the democrats are treasonist for not applauding, which is equally ridiculous. the one thing we have fortunately is a constitution that wasn't just written for times like these, it was written in times like these. i mean, when they wrote the constitution, these people weren't just pretending like they wanted to kill each other. they were trying to kill each other.

they have the alien edition acts. people like adams was eager to arrest people with differing views. so, our constitution has really been able to weather these types of periods, but it's a dangerous thing for both sides to use this term. >> mike barnacle. >> jonathan, let's stick with the constitution. what's your view? can the president of the united states, can any president of the united states be indicted? >> in my view a president can be. now, i tend to have a sort of madisnian view. i tend to have a more limited view of the white house. i don't see why a president cannot be indicted. i think it is an unanswered question. i think there is good faith arguments on both sides. but federal judges also can be impeached but they also can be indicted. i don't agree with people who say, well, this would be unworkable. in all reality if a president is indicted it's unlikely he would see a trial during his term, but

i think that if push came to shove, many justices would probably agree they could be indicted. >> that a president could be indicted. i want to ask you also about a choice that trump's lawyers, the president's lawyers have to make right now. it seems we're heading towards a showdown on whether he agrees to sit down with bob mueller or not. maybe all of this is negotiations them saying no, we're not going to sit down could just be a very good negotiating tactic with them knowing that they're going to sit down. is there a danger that if they decide not to sit down with bob mueller that he slaps a subpoena on them, they challenge it, it goes to the supreme court, and i mean, i don't know about you, i would guess that the court would rule at least 5-4 in bob mueller's favor that he would need to sit down given all of this. but, that being said, don't

trump's lawyers risk doing this and actually setting a precedent where the special counsel knows he can go to a supreme court that is actually going to rule in a way that's advantageous to the special prosecutor? >> well, i think it does come at a cost. among those costs is you will prolong the special counsel investigation. it will take time to litigate this issue. it is unresolved. you know the bets are sort of off on how the court will deal with this. i tend to view it -- it should be obvious from my last answer -- that the president can be forced to speak with the special counsel and is not beyond the power of a subpoena. i think that cases like the bill clinton case certainly lay the foundation for that. now, having said that as a criminal defense attorney, i must say most of us would not want the president to sit down with mueller. most of us would try to game this issue.

it's a very dangerous thing for him to do. you can call martha stewart and she'll tell you all about that. >> yeah. which many of martha stewart's friends were telling her, do not sit down and do it. i want to ask you, though, i know we have to go, but i'm just curious. if you're sitting there and you are donald trump's lead counsel, and you get to the point where you're either going to get the best deal you can get from bob mueller or you're going to send a letter to bob mueller saying we're not going to sit down with you knowing that he will immediately -- >> pursue a different option. >> this will end up at the supreme court very quickly and you're likely to lose that because of the bill clinton precedent, wold you go ahead and send that letter and say we're not sitting down and allow it to get to the supreme court? or would you take the best deal you could get? >> you know, there's an old joke in criminal defense work instead of justice delayed is justice denied, criminal defense attorneys say justice delayed is

justice. you know, there is, as a strategy, it's always better to push back on this to see if you can get a better deal. mueller wants to wrap this up. to see if you can get some type of understanding as to the scope of the president -- of the questions of the president. this is a very risky client to take in to an interview covered by 18 usc 1001. if he makes inaccurate statements he can be charged with it. i don't think most of the team wants to face that prospect without a fight. >> okay. >> jonathan turley thank you so much for your insight. we'll be reading your column in "usa today." michael duffy, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe," a new book says women are treated as second-class citizens in silicon valley. how an industry that is constantly evolving needs some evolution of its own. but first he chairs one of the most vocal groups on capitol hill, from the house freedom caucus congressman mark meadows joins the conversation. we'll be right back.

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republican congressman mark meadows of north carolina. i'm going to be a skull, i remember -- >> that's my job. >> it seems timely question would be about what's happened this past week. the markets, nobody knows why the markets went down. nobody really knows why the markets went up. lot of automated trading. but at the same time, there's stories about rising concerns about the debt. that donald trump -- >> right. >> donald trump's first year he's going to have to borrow an additional trillion dollars that, you know, you look, big tax cuts, big defense spending increases, medicare is not touched, social security is not touched. there are no real spending cuts. and this is exactly what

conservatives swore after george w. bush they would never do again but conservatives are doing it again. isn't it time for you and the freedom caucus? i'm dead serious, somebody's got to do it. >> i know you are. i know you are. >> to say enough is enough. we have to balance the budget in ten years and we have to pass a balanced budget amendment. what's wrong with that? >> there's nothing wrong with that, joe. obviously you advocated for that when you were here on capitol hill. and as you know, we had discussions over the tax debate and what it might do in the short run to the deficit, but there are two factors that contribute to the deficit and the big thing that you're talking about is both the entitlement spendings that we have to tackle and the other is it's not going to be good news today. there's negotiations going on even at this hour right now on the spending. and i'm afraid that the deal that they're going to announce, chuck schumer will be very happy about that, the freedom caucus members won't later today because we're going to grow the

size of government some 13% and so as we look at that, there's two areas that we've got to address. one is we've got to break this cycle of dysfunction where we believe every dollar of increase here has to have a dollar of increase somewhere else and the other part is really tackling those thorny issues like social security and making sure that the benefits that we have for those who have earned it continue to get protected, but that we save it for the future. and right now we're on a trajectory where that's not going to happen. >> any timeline? when can we expect the freedom caucus to come out and say we're going to balance the budget in ten years. i know it's hard. i know it's difficult. but we're going -- you know, back when we did it -- i'm just going to say, old guy back when we did it, we were told by bill clinton everyday that it would wreck the economy, that it would destroy the economy. >> yeah. >> you couldn't balance the budget because it was too harsh of a prescription. we balanced it four years in a

row. it can be done. if the freedom caucus doesn't do this, who will? >> well, you're exactly right. and we've got to be a voice for that. and i can tell you that we've had some very, very contentious conversations in the last 24 hours because honestly it puts us at odds with some in our own party, not just democrats. but you're right. when we look at growing the economy and we're well on our way to growing the economy, hopefully this new quarter will be over 5% gdp growth. you had that during the time that you were in office. that helps you balance it because you've got to actually have the revenue. so a growing economy is one component, but fiscal restraint on the other side of that. so you're going to probably see a whole lot more fighting and really debating on that particular issue in the coming we weeks. >> does that include defense spending? the president wants to spend a lot more money on nuclear

weapons? >> yeah. >> does that do -- are there republicans that say, hey, guess what, we've got to spend less money all across the board and we can't just give every defense contractor exactly what they want? >> well, i think it does three things on the defense side of things. there's a number of us who believe that our fighting men and women have not been given the assets and the requirements that they need, but special projects that you mentioned within the pentagon, whether it is procurement reform, whether it's making sure that the bloated bureaucracy that we have at the pentagon itself gets lowered or the other thing that's big for me is, you know, some 125 billion that's billion with a b that we couldn't find on an audit, it is time that we make sure that the american taxpayer's dollar is accounted for properly, joe. you're exactly right. no one should be immune to the

oversight and that includes the defense. so you'll find that some of us drilling down on that is really all about making sure that it's accountable, but you know, today is not going to necessarily be a good news day for those that are deficit and fiscal hawks. >> kasie hunt. >> congressman meadows, there's some discussion that they may add a debt ceiling increase that would essentially take us through the november elections. i'm wondering if that's something that's been part of your conversations? and it sounds to me as though you're saying it's going to be a bad day. it doesn't sound to me like you all have the power to stand in the way of this. >> well, we've made -- kasie, you've been here in the halls of congress, you know this extremely well, two things, one, the debt ceiling discussion is something that jim jordan and i brought up with some of our colleagues saying, you know, why kick the can down the road if we're going to have to deal with it, let's go ahead and deal with it now. so i do anticipate that could be added. i don't know for a fact that it is. but we had to make a decision

last night. we had an emergency meeting in the freedom caucus really the plan that we had was to go ahead and fund defense and keep the lines straight on nondefense. we knew by giving that vote that potentially we would lose all of our leverage over the next 48 hours. and so given the chance to fight, we'll continue to do that. i'm afraid that the numbers will get so high that -- and the debt ceiling will get added and it will be a christmas tree of spending that a lot of votes will be bought. so it will be quote, a bipartisan deal, but you'll end up with 120 or 140 democrats and maybe about the same on republicans sending this to the president's desk. so, that's -- i'm trying to be pragmatic and realisting about it, kasie, but that's what i see happening over the next 12 to 24 hours. >> congressman mark meadows, thank you very much for being on the show today.

>> good to be with you. >> cut the spending now. coming up, there are plans to cut funding to prevent outbreaks -- >> balance the budget. >> of global disease by a whopping 80%. >> save entitlements. >> we'll talk about the possible impacts straight ahead on "morning joe." >> that's all. don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched 'yeahhh.' yeahhh! try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. no satellite needed.

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we have two very important stories about the tech industry coming up on "morning joe." up next, a group of former facebook and google employees are launching a campaign to warn people about the dangers of the technology they helped create. we'll talk to two people behind the push to tell the truth about tech. and in our 8:00 a.m. hour, the dark side of silicon valley from drug-fueled sex parties to wide-spread discrimination. we'll talk to the author of "brotopia" a new bookmaking major waves in the tech industry. those stories all ahead when "morning joe" comes back. >> mike has a story about the fema vendor, unbelievable. >> meals to puerto rico costs of hundreds of millions of dollars came up well short. >> we're supposed to deliver over a million meals and delivered 150,000 at the time.

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our next guests are part of a new effort with a number of former silicon valley employees leading a campaign to challenge big tech companies about the health effects of social media, especially when it comes to children. we talk about this all the time. >> we do. >> joining us now ceo and founder of the non-profit watchdog organization common sense media, jim styer and former in-house ethicist and google now cofounder at the center for humane technology tristan harris. senior editor at large for fortune magazine, leigh gallagher. good to have you. what a topic. >> this is something mika and i talk about. >> and we suffer from.

>> something we talk about with ourselves and our children. i get home and i put my phone in the drawer because i'm so much more productive when i do that. but, you know, it takes work and it unfortunately everybody is seeing the world like this. talk about the dangers of that not only for our children but for ourselves. >> you know, joe, you're absolutely right. this is a huge issue for all of us, for our society. but most of all for our kids. and essentially, what we are seeing today is sort of an arm's race for our attention. you have these very sophisticated tech companies designing platforms and products that are actually intentionally designed to addict you. and we partnered up with tristan and these former google and facebook engineers to say, enough is enough. we need to tell the public, to tell all of us, but most of all our kids the truth about tech and ways in which we can resist

that because, mika and joe, i have the same problem with my kids just like everybody does. and that's why we've launched this truth about tech campaign. >> i got the problem with myself. >> yeah, agreed. >> tristan, the center for humane i mean, i could imagine some of our viewers would be like, cigarettes caused bad health and that was proven in court or whatever. what are you talking about? and what is the center for humane technology focusing on? >> well, so we're a group of former technology insiders, i was a design ethicist at google and raised alarms in 2013, never before in history have 50 people in california shaped what a billion people will be thinking and then therefore doing because thought proceeds action. we have a moral responsibility, whether it's with children or elections to get this right. and i started doing talks about this and realized this is a huge public health problem. there's a huge national security issue around this, around elections and ability to steer

elections. there's 2 billion people who every day they first thing they do, increasingly in the western world, you do this and jacked into an environment that three companies control. and there's no accountability for all of that power. >> and leigh, it's something we could talk about elections, but there's -- there have been study after study after study and i suspect ten years from now we'll find studies every bit as alarming as the studies that came out about cigarettes this is rewiring the brain. >> it absolutely is. >> it's rewiring the way our children think, how they process information. it destroys attention spans. they are constantly every 14 seconds moving somewhere else on their phone. you know, it's why i tell my kids, you want to run the world, read a book. >> it's so true. and i think there is growing consumer awareness already about this, a lot of people are talking about putting what's called gray scale on the phones

where the whole thing goes gray and designed to make it less colorful and less tempting but we've all felt it. we know it's there. but one question i wanted to ask tristan, facebook has come out and said publicly mark zuckerberg said we want to really address the issues of the kinds of information people are getting on facebook and focus more on meaningful interactions. that so far seems to be the biggest public response from facebook on this, which is more addressing the fake news situation, not addressing this issue of addiction as much. are you engaging with them behind the scenes? what kind of response have you gotten from facebook so far? >> these are -- in almost all cases these are good people guided by a very bad business model. the business model of capturing attention means all of these good people have to go to work today and want the make the world a better place, youtube offer snapchat or facebook, it's

the same thing, how do i keep you and get you to come back tomorrow? if you stop using facebook for a week, just try, it's hard. you'll notice they'll send you these comeback e-mails, like a digital druglord, let me tell you more things your friends are saying. not trying to say that to make them evil but things like that, it's like, guys this is not what technology is for. that's not why any of us got in the tech industry. that's what this is about. >> but you can see that people everywhere are -- this is a major cultural issue here in the united states. really around the world. and are the tech companies defensive about it? absolutely, they are. they should be. because as tristan said and other engineers who are really whistle blowers, joe, you use the cigarette analogy. >> saying we designed it that way. that's why it's such an important discussion to have right now in this country. >> the important thing there are

solutions and ways the companies can design it to be more humane, we call it the center for humane technology. there's a humane way to design these things and one of the son of the origin venter of the mcintosh project at apple is part of this effort. his dad coined the term humane design. that's what this is about. there's a different and humane way it needs to be designed. >> i would note it seems like we're conflatting two things, the business practices of massive corporations with the problem that arises when people can talk to one another on a massive scale. part of the problem i see in social media, you get 1400 randos yelling at you on twitter and makes it a toxic horrible place but that is not necessarily a function of twitter, but people being able to reach out to you. i'm curious how people feel, it is a massive corporation, but there is an inherent people in connectingmplifies small people

heard which has not existed before in human culture. >> heard in a way that distorts reality. i have to tell people all the time and myka does the same, people come on set that are newer to media i say, leigh, i say -- but i say to them, don't look at your mentions, look at verified, that's fine. but you're chasing -- >> it's the same -- >> it took me a while to figure out when i got on in 2009, twitter, i'd read and go everybody in the world hates me. then walk through a airport and people came up hugging us, thank you us. >> it kg very negative. >> and it took me seven or eight years to figure out, it just distorts reality. >> it does. >> larger corporations are figuring this out too. >> and how much responsibility they have is a big question. >> in addition to being heard,

it's also about being liked, that is the emotional pull of so much of this. >> jim steyer and tristan, thank you for what you're doing. keep us posted. >> one more time, i know you're back at 8:00 hour, just to wrap this up, i read several articles where corporations are now realizing that they have overreacted to social media impulses and they've understood that social media distorts reality, that their consumers do not follow what they see. so somebody goes out and says something that runs a product line, twitter blows up for a month. consumers still want that person connected with a brand. >> consumers have the power here. if you ever have a bad experience, twitter is the fastest way to get a reaction and companies now know the crisis departments have to react instantly. it used to be a day or two for things to explode like that. >> still ahead, president trump calls for a government shutdown

over immigration but then gets shut down by republican congresswoman in real time. and the last time the u.s. had a military parade, we also had a president who served in the military. but now, at president trump's request, the pentagon is looking at dates, we have a packed 8:00 a.m. hour ahead on "morning joe." [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] ♪ good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours.

i'm very pleased to report my meeting with leader mcconnell went very well. >> senator schumer and i had a good meeting this morning. >> let's have a shutdown. we'll do a shutdown. and it's worth it for our country i'd love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care of.

>> good gracious if there is another government shutdown this week, it will be easy to know who to name it after. >> the trump shutdown. so he's bragging about it. john heilemann, he's making it easy. >> i don't know, man. >> then you have poor barbara come stock, will be in a fight for her life. no, mr. president -- we don't -- we don't want a government shutdown. >> not one that's blamed on us. >> thanks for getting the whole party blamed there, boss, good work. >> the markets, we had said don't freak out. people didn't freak out. you don't know. today may be volatile but the market is trying to figure out where it wants to land. >> money, money, money. that's what it's all about. >> money, money. >> actually that is a problem, because regardless of how this all shakes out, you know, basically it's out of the dire straits song, money for nothing.

interest rates have been so low for so long. everybody understands that wherever this shakes out, the days of basically cheap money for investors is coming to an end. certainly the day of low interest rates. >> we have veteran columnist mike barnicle. >> legendary -- >> john heilemann. >> high the, there. >> he's peppy this morning. that is not good. >> co-aumg or of the president's club, michael duffy. and nbc news capitol hill koern correspondent and get ready, guys -- kasie hunt. it makes no sense. it's awesome. >> what are republicans thinking on capitol hill when they did pretty well in the last government shutdown, shifted the blame to democrats and it was

the schumer shutdown democrats pulled back, now moving towards i would love a government shutdown. republicans, what say they? >> they say they are not interested in a government shutdown. for once it feels like capitol hill is getting somewhere. they seemed to be relatively on the same page, talking about this big major budget deal. they have been governing from crisis to crisis to crisis for so long. had had been tied up with immigration and democrats after the shutdown said, okay, fine we'll try to strike this deal. this could likely keep the government open this week and it seems like the president feels like perhaps he won the last round and so he seems anxious to figure out if he can use it to his advantage. the reality is nobody is really

listening to what the president is saying, they are listening to what john kelly is saying behind closed doors. but every time the president makes a move, he doesn't seem to follow through or changes his mind. and something completely different is the ultimate outcome. >> wow, it's almost as if he has a short attention span. >> i wanted the rocky series, a couple of weeks ago, to keep them interesting, the sequel has a different ending than the first one. he loses the first one and wins the second win. it's not going to be the same story the second time over. >> but i've said this before, when does trump -- when does everything catch up to trump? it's not a lie. it's not an outrageous comment. it's not even all of the racist attacks he makes, for some reason, none of this -- it's not a sex scandal with a porn star that he pays off let's say nine

out of ten presidents, it's not that. for donald -- >> 99 out of 100. >> 999 out of 1,000. >> it's not that. it's when he gets predictive and gets boring. this is a reality tv show. people like watching this guy go crazy. this is kardashians come to washington. when he gets predictable, when they say i've seen this before, when they turn it off and say you know what, i know what -- >> when it starts to seem like the normal way of washington is predictable, another shutdown, great? >> seriously is. i've seen this series before they are repeating the same thing as before. michael duffy. i always go back to this as a younger guy, i was shocked that the great communicator after

about six years could go out and give the same exact speech and try to get 100 million meezly dollars for central america and give the same speech and chills would go up and down my conservative spine, and the rest of america yawned. every president has a sell by date. for reagan it was six years. with donald trump, because everything is so amped up, it's going to come sooner. >> i'm worried about the movie sequel metaphor of john's, i thought after the third "jaws" movie you begin to root for the shark because it got so boring, you knew what was going to happen. >> that may only be you, duffy. >> might home be me. but reagan was different. people tolerated him and actually had deep affection for that man and that was a difference. and it's a difference maker for

presidents in good times and bad. kasie said governance may be able to break out here and that's a relief. it looks like they are going to do this deal this morning and everybody is going to get a little more money and we'll see if that flies in the house. that is for us a win and whatever the president may have said about wanting or welcoming a shutdown. >> following up on what michael said about reagan was likeable. everything goes back to johnny carson for me. carson was likeable. you could watch him every night. he was invited into your home and even invited into your bedroom because there wasn't the sharp edge to him. again, trump, there's a lot of flash and anger and shock. there's a lot of awe that lasts, a lot shorter than say what reagan's winning personality

did. >> johnny carson didn't wear on you or exhaust you. trump does both, he wears on you and exhausts you. in the sequesequel, this is thet sequel that we're seeing in presidential politics in quite a while where the president in the second part series here, because irrelevant. the senate is moving forward without the president as if he doesn't exist. >> it is and he also has his lawyer saying he's not smart enough to stand toe to toe with bob mueller. last night they had newt gingrich. it was a former nixon guy in south florida? roger stein who i hear has the best nixon memorabilia. >> tattoo on his back. >> i would love -- >> you could see that on the google machine. >> i would love to see the memorabilia. >> it is incredible. >> i heard it's unbelievable. and nixon bong that's right up

my alley. >> i don't need to see that. >> okay, i lost my train of thoug thought. they were on tv last night, he can't go in front of bob mueller, worst idea every. bob mueller is a man of great integrity and perfect choice. but they've all figured out that mueller is so much smarter than donald trump. at least they think so. i would never say that. everybody close to him thinks that he's too stupid. he's too dishonest to sit down and talk to bob mueller. i don't know if i were donald trump, that would hurt my feelings. >> if you look at the "washington post," five lives a day. can you imagine an hour with bob mueller? >> yes. >> the man can't open his mouth without a lie popping forward. >> i mean, somebody is going to compel him to talk, so they are

kicking the can down the road a little bit. >> just say, it is remarkable that you work for somebody and four people admit to the "new york times" that he cannot be trusted to talk to an officer of the court without lying. >> how would you feel about it if your lawyers were saying that stuff, not just saying it but saying it to the "new york times." >> saying it to the "new york time times". there may be -- you'll get this, i don't think anybody else will. curt flood, free agent, but major league baseball didn't want to sue him because they didn't want to lose because then it would open pandora's box, right? >> right. >> it's the same thing with donald trump's lawyers, they can do this maneuvering but at the end of the day, mueller will say, i need a subpoena. it's going to go all the way to the supreme court. i don't think trump's lawyers want to lose that because then that opens the door for the next

question. and the next question and the final question to go to the supreme court, which is, can the president of the united states be indicted? the interesting thing about occurred flocurt flood, nobody around curt flood was panicked about what he was doing. all of the players, yeah, go ahead. everyone -- nearly everyone around the president of the united states is in a state of panic about the spectacle, the specter of him having to testify before bob mueller. >> never seen anything like it. they do not trust him to be smart enough to do this. >> and just to tell the truth. >> or to tell the truth. i don't know what's worse. >> they think any interview is a perjury trap. if you sit with mueller, it's a perjury trap. >> and go where you began. this is a reality show and most reality shows if you think about the most popular ones out there, they do crazy things, you basically watch people push the envelope on life and on norms --

>> somebody gets a bug and they course in our society. this reality is do the same thing except to our democracy. the problem with a government shutdown, it complicates plans for a military parade in the middle of washington. new reporting on the president's push to put america's armed forces on full display. you're watching morning show. we'll be right back. don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched 'yeahhh.' yeahhh! try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. no satellite needed.

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president trump has asked the top military commanders to plan a military parade in washington. a pentagon spokesperson confirms the department is quote, looking at possibilities -- possible dates adding november 11th is veteran's day and that's a possibility. the president was impressed and inspired by the bastille day parade in paris, where rehe attended as a personal guest of

emmanuel macron. >> i have a great idea. why don't we get -- dead serious, why don't we get vietnam vets some korean vets and get vets from the wars to march, those that have already been to war. perhaps those who were still carrying the scars of those wars, let them march and on v veter veteran's day and we can applaud them. >> i don't think that's -- >> it happens all over the united states now. >> why doesn't the president organize that? the pentagon organize that and have the largest veterans parade in american history where veterans can come together from all all of these wars and talk through the challenges they still are facing in peace time 30 and 40 years later. >> it is more about power and

being saluted. it's not about actually respecting the sacrifices of people who love our country so much that they would lay their lives on the line. let's bring in nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nichols. what more can you tell us about what's behind this request? are we misunderstanding it? >> no, you have it pretty clearly. the president kbgave a directiv to the pentagon. one thing we know about the pentagon, they are a planning organization and number two, when they get what they perceive to be directives or orders, we can hash out the exact language, if their commander in chief tells them to do something, they are going to do something. i have to tell you, the most surprising aspect of this story was the speed with which the pentagon confirmed the "washington post" scoop. about 12 hours ago it broke in the post, reporters running around trying to match it. normally it's very difficult to figure out what was said inside the tank and that's where this order was given two weeks ago according to the post. pentagon just said, yeah, sure, we're looking at dates, it's a

request and we'll figure out how to do it. they are a planning organization and follow orders and that has implications across a whole lot of policy arenas. >> hans, i would guess -- maybe i'm wrong, but secretary mattis, a man who was in iraq from the very beginning, who warned american leaders not to go to iraq, who warned american leaders against bremmer's debath fiction, who was there in if a lu if a luge ja. >> any chance we would see pushback from the secretary? >> i think it's unlikely. when sent mattis, a former marine corps general came up through spent almost 40 years in the marine corps. when he gets orders, he follows them. the fundamentals of the relationship between mattis and trump, mattis challenges trump, those are rules written when they had the first interview,

challenged him on three things, on russia, on torture, one other issue as well, nato, the importance of nato. mattis has shown a willingness to challenge the president and to disagree with him. it just seems like this is an order that was given from the president. the president clearly likes military parades and talked about this in 2011 -- >> do you think hans, it may have been leaked because they want to get this genuinely bad idea out immediately so these kind of conversations are had? you say things like this never leak, well they got it out fast. do you think it was to kill it? >> my reading of the pentagon on this is they don't think it's a bad idea. it doesn't seem like the white house thinks like it's a bad idea. >> hans nichols, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe." senate's second ranking democrat, dick durbin joins the conversation and takes out his par party's position as another government shutdown loomz tomorrow. your insurance company won't

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it makes a tremendous team during a moment of crisis. i rely on them, the firefighters in this department rely on them, and so we have to practice safety everyday. utilizing pg&e's talent and expertise in that area trains our firefighters on the gas or electric aspect of a fire and when we have an emergency situation we are going to be much more skilled and prepared to mitigate that emergency for all concerned. the things we do every single day that puts ourselves in harm's way, and to have a partner that is so skilled at what they do is indispensable, and i couldn't ask for a better partner. yesterday at a speech in ohio he took a moment to complain about the democrats who didn't clap for him during the state of the union. >> the president was clearly joking with his comments but what snts a joke democrats refuse to celebrate the accomplishments of last year that has helped all americans.

>> maybe we just have to see trump's jokes in the right setting. >> did anybody happen to see the state of the union address? okay. you're up there and half of the room going totally crazy wild and you have the other side, they were like death. and un-american. un-american. somebody is treasonous. yeah, i guess why not. >> when you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just see them thrown in, rough. i said please don't be too nice. >> joining us now from capitol hill, member of the senate judiciary committee democratic whip, dick durbin. fortune magazine's leigh gallagher is back with us as well. senator durbin, i guess we're looking at another shutdown l m loomi looming. are democrats going to get anything out of -- how's the

deal making going? >> i can tell you we're making progress and i'm glad to hear it. there are so many issues we put off. this is the fifth or sixth temporary budget bill this republican congress has generated. it's time to roll up sleeves and get the job done. the good news as well, we have a commitment, public commitment from senator mcconnell to take up the issue involving the d.r.e.a.m.ers and bring it up on the senate floor if we've not reached an agreement before that. i think we're moving forward in a positive way but i've got my fingers crossed to make sure we go to the finish line. >> so you were there yesterday when john kelly made those comments. was that disheartening or what was going on there? comments about the d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> i wasn't in the room when he first made the comments but i was in a later meeting that he attended and he was called out on it by steny hoyer, the democratic leader in the house of representatives. and he should have been called out. you know, it really just stuns me when the secretary of the department of homeland security

told us in a hearing before the senate judiciary committee, he never met a dreamer. i think if general kelly and the secretary took time to get to know these young people, they would realize they are far from lazy, they are inspiring to think what they've lived through and prepared to go through to become part of america's future. >> all right, and is the chief of staff at this point do you think helpful in this process? >> well, i can tell you, i'd give him mixed reviews. the president is hard to follow on so many issues. on this particular issue though, i've met with general kelly many times. i will continue to in the hopes that we can resolve it. but remember, myka, this is an issue, a problem and challenge created by president trump on september 5th when he end the daca program, which protected almost 800,000 of these young

people from deportation. we're now trying to give them a chance to earn their way into legal status as well as citizenship and be part of america's future. they are not lazy by any means. take the time to get to know them. they are amazing group of young people and i'm happy to be taking their banner into battle. >> mike barnicle? >> the budget, daca, immigration, all big issues you're dealing with. is the president of the united states an actsive participant in any of the negotiations for any of those three items with the united states senate and if not, do you wish he were? >> well, i know that he calls from time to time but and weighs in but most of the negotiation is taking place at the staff level. that's not unusual. many times we felt we had an agreement with president trump and within an hour or two he turned and walked away. when we presented the bipartisan approach that lindsey graham and i worked months to put together, we presented to him personally, he liked it at 10:00.

by noon he was against it completely. when chuck schumer sat down before the government shutdown and said i think we have two or three major things to agree on. the president nodded understandingly and two hours later called and said the deal is off. he's a tough person to nail down as chuck schumer often says, it's like negotiating with jell-o. >> senator, john heilemann here. the president would like to throw himself a parade, a military parade, troops and tanks and all that kind of stuff. there's some planning now underway or dates are being considered. what say you? >> i say it's a fantastic waste of money to amuse the president. take the money that the president would like to spend on this parade and instead let's make sure our troops are ready for battle and survive it and come home to their families, let's put money into the quality of life of military families who sacrifice with our men and women in uniform and finally let's make sure that we're doing something to stop the waiting lines at veterans hospitals.

that's a good way to put taxpayer money, investing in our troops and veterans instead of the amusement of the president. >> the deadline for which after which the program expires is march 5th. this was -- we began to deal with this in january, it's now february. what are the chances are that deadline getting extended in your opinion? >> well, the president said he won't extend it and in fact in testimony a member of his cabinet said he could not legally extend it. the president created this deadline, we're now five months into his six-month challenge and the republican congress has passed not one bill to address the president's challenge. if this march 5th comes around, we don't have an alternative to the president's shutdown of this program, 1,000 young people a day will lose their protected status under daca. it means they'll be subject to deportation, unable to work legally in the united states. it's a harsh outcome because the president got into this without

a proposal, a reasonable proposal to solve the problem he created. >> all right, senator dick durbin, thank you very much. and. >> good to be with you. >> up next, from hollywood to the news industry to the business world the me too movement is accelerating change in the workplace culture. now silicon valley is having its movement. we'll discuss that and the slow motion disaster response in puerto rico, it continues with just a fraction of the meals that were promised to people there being delivered. this is the story of green mountain coffee roasters

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billionaire casino steve wynn has stepped down as ceo of wynn resorts. in a late january report by the wall street journal, several employees of wynn's las vegas casinos accused him of sexual misconduct, detailing a pattern of behavior spanning decades. two weeks ago, wynn resib signed as finance chair of the rnc. he denies allegations against

him. there doesn't seem to be any industry insulated from this still growing inflection point of purging inappropriate sexual behavior from the workplace. and silicon valley is also in the spotlight. joining us now, bloomberg tv journalist emily chang, her new book incredibly timed is entitled brotopia, breaking up the boys club of silicon valley. it's out now. and in it, she takes aim at the male dominated tech industry, writing in part this, in silicon valley today women are second class sicitizens and most men a blind to it. the tragedy is it didn't have to be this way. the exclusion of women from this critical industry was not inevitab inevitable, the industry sabotaged itself and its own pipeline of bright female tal t talent. the impact of technology is actually just beginning. women can still play their rightful role if we break the cycle. that begins by acknowledging that the environment in the tech

industry has become toxic for women. emily, thanks for being on. >> thank you so much for having me. >> how long did you work on this book? >> it's been two years. >> so your timing is incredible given the conversation that was completely focused on an issue like this. i remember talking to sheryl sandberg, gosh, six years ago and she was like, don't take the laptop away from your daughter. daughters need to become computer savory. th savvy and go into tech. we have such a void of women in the industry and you're adding sexism and blindness to it as a part of the problem. how bad is it? >> it's bad. i mean, if you look at the numbers women make up 25% of computing jobs and 7% of investors. women let companies get 2% of funding. that's pro posterous in a industry that is supposed to be one of the most progressive in the worlds filled with the smartest people in the world. one of the most important things that i realized is that women were actually critical parts of

the early computing industry. they were programming computers for the military and for nasa and then they got pushed out as the jobs became higher paying and higher status, think hidden figures but industrywide. and there's this stereo type of sort of antisocial mostly white male nerds as being the only people who can do this job that has persisted for decades and it's simply not true. >> but i don't see antisocial white male nerds the stereo type being sexual harassers or treating women as seconds class citizens. how does that -- the second class citizen concept play into it? >> at a certain point silicon valley started amassing so much wealth and power. we had more wealth created here than a generation. and that has led to a culture of quite frankly arrogance and entitlement and increasing detachment from real world people. and you have investors who just simply don't understand that

it's a problem because they believe that they've gotten to where they are based on merit, when if fact the idea of a meritocracy ignores the play and systemic factors working against everyone else, including and he is especially women. >> the behavior you document in the book is unbelievable. we ran an excerpt that talked about one ceo who gave his employees copies of the karma sutra, thank god we don't have an hr department. this is so big and so pervasive and so unbelievable but what kind of inning are with in in it? it's obviously coming out but clearly this is still going on. how much more will we see before things start to change? >> i'm sure you're getting tips and we're getting tips and continuing to get stories about bad behavior, i do believe that the smartest people in the world can also hire women and pay them fairly. the pay gap in silicon valley is

five times the national average. and you know, what we're seeing is bad behavior that has been not only tolerated but normalized. in the excerpt you run, we talk about female uber engineers getting invited to strip clubs and bondage clubs in the middle of the day by their male managers. this rises to the level of a corporate culture and activities that so obviously cross the line and so obviously put women in an uncomfortable possible in an industry where they are already so outnumbered. >> let's get to the root of this, i mean, these industries, google, silicon valley, all of them, okay, many of them populated by young people, many of them newly afluent, many of them with multiple degrees from the best schools in the country. what's the root of the behavior though? did they arrive out there before their wealth, before their fame?

what's the root of their behavior? >> i do think a lot of it has to be with very young and accruing a lot of money and power at the young age and doesn't come with the same sort of socialization you would have if you were accumulating all of that over a long career. >> but also an awkward socially awkward socially maybe stunted -- maybe that's a strong word, but that is the kind of personality type. you write about how psychologists sort of identified that but maybe that transition is not really possible. >> it gets to an age-old and dated question, how were they raised? how were they raised? >> yeah. but what's been the response from companies that you've named in this book? you mentioned uber. >> i think you have a lot of people who are working on this really hard. and whos have realized that for a long time they have been blind to it. uber has had a major leadership

shake-up as a result of all of these sexual harassment allegations and the notion that executives are going to strip clubs and i spoke to uber and i have a statement from them that they are glad that women have come forward and they are working hard to change things. but just talking about it isn't going to be enough. we've been talking about this for far too long. the numbers haven't budged for decades. i do think the people taking us to mars and building self-driving cars and who have created rides that can arrive at the push of a button, they can do this too. >> what's the solution? 50/50 women in leadership? >> yes. >> total revamp of hr. >> 100% women leadership. >> we need equal numbers -- if you have more women at the table these things just don't happen. these things don't happen. this culture doesn't get condoned. at the very least bad behalf yor needs to be stopped and people need to stop enabling it and turning a blind eye. i think ceos, the leaders of the

companies need to make hiring and promoting women an explicit priority and communicate that to the rest of the organization. if your boss wants you to do something, you do it. beyond that, we need to expand our idea of who can be good at this job. this stereo type of antisocial white male programmer was instituted decades ago because of these personality tests that were widely used to hire. there is no research to prove that those kind of people can do these jobs any better than anybody else or that men are better at these jobs then women. >> the book is brotopia, breaking up the boys club of silicon valley. congratulations on the book. up next, expected cuts to the cdc are threatening to wipe out the gains made against infectious diseases worldwide. we'll talk to two leading doctors sounding the alarm. it could be a new era of space flight elon's musk's heavy falcon rocket has some wondering

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lifted flawlessly off the launch pad yesterday in cape canaveral, florida. the launch and recovery of its booster rockets pushed the boundaries of technology and may have created new opportunities for space travel. nbc's tom costello has more. >> 10, 9, 8- >> reporter: under a perfect florida blue sky, another billionaire's dreams roared to life. >> ignition. liftoff. >> reporter: the spacexxts heavy falcon rocket with 27 engines thundering off the same launch pad that for decades sent apollo missions into space. this time three rockets tied together, break the earth's grave tagsal pool and eup ohori

and in a stroke of engineering genius, two returned safely to earth for reuse. setting off sonic booms as they broke through the atmosphere and hit their targets side by side. >> and the falcons have landed. >> it really feels like we've got a shot at going back to the moon, going to mars and reviving the spirit of exploration that was apollo. and that was one of the things that got me so excited as a kid. >> reporter: in florida, the gathered crowds could feel the thunder in the sky. >> it must be experienced live. i can't -- yeah, it's just -- >> i see these all the time. this is the best one, by far. >> this is opening the door to a new future of space flight for the human race. >> reporter: this spectacular shot of the cherry red tesla with a dummy and headed for a solar orbit and david bowie

playing in a loop. >> but while private investment in science and technology like spacex zooms ahead, government investments in those areas are facing cutbacks. one of the agencies of concern is the centers for disease control, which as the atlantic magazine points out is about to fall off a funding cliff. joining me now, co-founder dr. vanessa carey and founder of "thrive", dr. david campbell. good to have you both. >> i know a lot of what you do with seed, trying to work in countries where there's nothing to work with. what concerns you the most in terms of national security and progress when you look at the cdc cuts we're talking about? >> i think the cdc cuts are inkr inkredably concerning, it's looking inwards, not outwards at

a time where we have to realize that our national security and our well being is very linked to what's happening in the globe. it takes less than 36 hours now for some sort of disease or pandemic to be able to come from one border pandemic to come from a one border in a small country to the united states. we've made incredible gains over the last years, especially since the ebola outbreak in 2014. and to undercut that now would be incredibly damaging. the best way to prevent a pandemic or epidemic is to empower countries to be able to do the surveys and have the capacity they need on their own. that's what seed strives to do. >> dr. dave, i've got to say, it's stunning that you actually have idiots in washington, d.c., and i don't usually say that, but idiots in washington, d.c. who believe they can cut funding for disease prevention globally by 80%. and they act as if infectious

diseases respect borders. and you go back and you think about the 1918 flu pandemic that killed 50 million, killed more americans, young americans, than died in world war i, than died in world war ii. it's hard to imagine what they're thinking. so what is the health impact of this? >> well, since you're speaking about the 1918 pandemic, our government and some experts in the global health arena have estimated, if that same pandemic occurred now, it would cost $6 trillion to manage it, and that the number of people who would die worldwide would be hard to calculate but massive. so it is entirely conceivable that an influenza virus, like happened in 1918, could strike

the world, which is the definition for a pandemic, and cause catastrophes that are hard too imagine. it's actually been said that more than twice as many people could die from such a pandemic than have died from all of the ground wars and all of the battlefield injuries and fatalities in the united states since 19776. >> cuts to the centers for disease control budget, i guess the basic question is, why cut that budget? and what would the immediate impact impact be of those budget cuts? >> first of all, the cdc has had to notify a number of staff in countries around the world that they're going to be let go. the immediate impact is people being insecure, unsure of the future, and reducing partnerships and a joint commitment. this is sending a signal to the world that we are not engaged in

a global sort of approach to pandemic preparedness or to security, and that it's furthering this idea of america first rather than understanding that we exist on a very small world now, and we all have to be incredibly unified in how we approach big problems, because you can't isolate yourself anymore. it doesn't work that way. and so this is sending a signal that we are not engaged in that global effort. i think that's an immediate hurt. the long term hurt, though, is we are going to start to undermine a great deal of funding. if you look at sort of the -- and a lot of projects have been in progress. the inability to carry a vaccine across the finish line meant people had to die in west africa and the world went on to feel that burden. once we apply that funding, that

vaccine is 100% effective as tested in west africa. that's incredible. we have to understand the importance of making these kinds of investments for long term preparedness. i'm a physician. the best way we can take care of people is through prevention. that's for pandemic preparedness. and look, we know there's a nine to one return on investments in pandemic preparedness, in terms of economic gains, security, and other benefits. it seems crazy not to. >> absolutely. dr. campbell, speaking of investments, is there anything the private sector can do to try to fill this gap? obviously it's not going to match the scale of the government. but what can the private sector be doing that it's not doing now? >> well, they're already engaged in this to a certain extent. the funding that we're talking about now is actually just a -- at the end of a five-year program that started in 2015. and individuals in the government have indicated the

importance of this funding to continue through 2024. and having the private sector, nongovernmental organizations, and even individuals who can contribute to their favorite or local charities can help in this regard, because the funding is important in the long run to prevent pan democrdemics from co the united states. it's a humanitarian issue across the world. >> there was plenty of focus on the troubled relief efforts in puerto rico in the immediate aftermath of hurricane maria. the slow motion fallout continues to this day with new reporting from "the new york times." in one instance, dr. dave, fema awarded a $156 million contract to an atlanta entrepreneur with no experience in large scale disaster relief. she was asked to deliver 30 million meals as soon as

possib possible. by the time 18.5 million meals were due, the company had delivered only 50,000. how does this happen? >> mika, i don't know. it's appalling to read those numbers and to imagine the ineptitude that went into the vetting process to pick a company that has no experience in a particular field and ask them to develop the infrastructure and the systems, the boots on the ground to deliver. it isn't surprising but it is appalling. >> vanessa, talk about what we were reading on the front page of "the new york times," but also talk about the challenges that are still taking place in puerto rico. >> i think, you know, it's been really painful to watch for a number of reasons. i think also because for me, where i go to when i look at

this, beyond just the suffering that is happening in puerto rico and other places of disaster around the world, to me we could be betters also just in thinking through the prevention. if you look at the number of disasters that have happened across the globe in recent years, to me it's escalating. it's related to climate change, it's related to a number of things. to me, i go back to prevention. we not only have to be thoughtful to what our response is, both from a moral obligation and in terms of just economic, it's been extraordinary to see what the ramifications of this have been across puerto rico, but we have to also understand we need to be thinking ahead of the game and understanding how the entire context in which these things are happening is changing, they're going to get worse, bigger, harsher. this is only the beginning. we not only have to be more effective in terms of our relief but we have to engage in terms

of trying to reverse the tide of the cycles we're in now, in terms of the numbers, the frequency, and the things driving the degree of disasters. >> doctors, thank you both for being on this morning. and before we close, the markets, we'll be looking at how they open today. >> yeah, the markets, obviously a couple of days ago just completely volatile, up and down, more down than up. yesterday, lee, they shot up. >> they did. >> right now the futures suggest they're going to start down just a bit. but there is still volatility there. and a fear that we don't know, the traders don't even know where this is going. >> yeah, the big fear is that we're reaching the end of the cheap money era of low interest rates. but, you know, we have a new guest at the table and that is volatility. and it is going to be with us now. we have been through this remarkably long phase of very low volatility, and that's over.

whether this is a blip and it's going to be a little cycle here or whether it's going to be sustained, we don't know yet. hang on, because it has been sudden and it has been very -- it's been a wild ride. >> the end of the money for nothing era. you know, volatility is really actually the normal. >> it is, yes. >> what we've had has been abnormal for the last couple of years, reliable, up, up, up. this is a return to what the normal market should do, up days, down days. >> it's important to remember that. even the swing on monday was not even in the top ten in terms of percent decline. warren buffett and everyone would tell you, don't do anything dramatic. >> the underlying economic is strong, that's what matters. >> and joe, in the past 24 hours the president has touted a shutdown and he wants a military parade. your thoughts, ten seconds or less. >> whatever it takes to stir people up and to keep them watching the reality show, that's what he's interested in.

and when peace is breaking out on capitol hill, he calls for war. he claims the shutdown is his, and you're going to be seeing that a lot in clips in the coming days, if democrats and republicans don't come together. that does it for us, though. katy tur picks up the coverage right now. katy? >> guys, i really liked your tech segment earlier today. that was awkward. they couldn't hear me. hi there, i'm katy tur in for stephanie ruhle this morning. down to the wire. less than two days until another government shutdown. but the president doesn't seem too worried. >> i would love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care of. >> the house passes its fifth stopgap bill as leaders in the senate rush to cobble together one long term deal. >> we've had one trump shutdown. nobody wants another, except maybe him. the white house mulls whether