crow. thank you for being with us. >> it's good to see you. thank you. >> and that is "all in" for the evening. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> very happy to have you here tonight. former u.s. attorney general eric holder is our guest this hour. he is a hard man to get on television. i am very much looking forward to talking with him. our live interview with attorney general eric holder is coming up in just a couple of minutes. super excited about that. and you by now have heard there is another senior white house official who has resigned and under troubling circumstances. this time it's the white house staff secretary, a man named rob porter. he's out now or at least he's on his way out now. he has resigned. this is a person who has serve as right-hand man to chief of staff john kelly. he spends hours a day with the

president, sets the president's schedule, controls the flow of paper across the president's desk. so to a certain extent he controls the president's access to information. we learned today rob porter has been doing that job all without being approved for a security clearance. which is for itself probably a bit of a scandal for a person who is seeing everything that crosses the president's desk. the reason why he couldn't get security clearance reportedly has to do with allegations of domestic violence from each of his two previous wives. the heez ase are allegations h denies, but the white house reportedly learned of last fall. and the fbi learned he had spoken to both of his exwives who boekt reportedly described to the fbi of his alleged abuse.

so that story, that surprise resignation is a big deal story. we're going to have more on that ahead tonight including some troubling context in terms of what this follows from other members of senior white house staff. today has also been an unusual day on capitol hill. this is the famous footage of mr. smith goes to washington, which is how anybody who watches turner classic movies thinks about the fact one thing senators can do is they can filibuster in the senate to block legislation. they can talk and talk and talk until they can't talk no moir. and that is one peculiar tactic we reserve for united states senators. today in washington the proverbial mr. smith was not a senator and not a mr. today house democratic leader nancy pelosi set an all-time congressional record for the longest amount of time that anybody has ever held the floor

in the u.s. house of representatives. the longest speech anybody has ever given on the floor. now, this was not technically a filibuster because only senators can technically do that. effectively, though, it really was the same thing. nancy pelosi took the floor at 10:00 a.m. for what was supposed to be a one-minute speech. leaders of both parties are usually given a little leeway in terms of how you count one minute. but in nancy pelosi's case, she just refused to yield back her time for an hour, and then two hours and then three hours, and then four hours and five hours and six hours before she blew through the record. now, what this is about is that tomorrow night, thursday night the government's set to run out of money again and to shutdown again if there isn't yet another short-term deal agreed upon keep the government funded. it looks like another shutdown

will probably be averted for now, they probably will come up with a way to run the government for now. but for dreamers, before trump started to deport them anyway, they still not have been taken care of. they are still in the middle of this mess involving their legal status that the trump administration has created. now, the last time we had a shutdown, which was only two weeks ago on the one-year anniversary of trump taking power, the last time we had a shutdown one of the things senate democrats did get in that fight was a promise from the republicans in the senate that there would at least be a vote on a deal to fix this mess that the dreamers are in. that was one concrete outcome that came out of that shutdown fight on the senate side. the democrats got mitch mcconnell and the republicans to agree, okay, we will at least hold a vote on daca, on the dreamers. that's only in the senate, though. in the house republican speaker paul ryan has made no such

promise. ask, you know, if they did vote on it, a bunch of republicans would probably vote for it and all the democrats would vote for it, so paul ryan definitely doesn't want to do anything like that. in the house, though, it's not clear what leverage the democrats have to get paul ryan to change his mind on this. and so today it apparently was time for a new tactic. this has never been done before. a member of the house holding the floor. in this case she used her eight plus hours on the house floor to tell story after story, personal stories of immigrants brought here as kids who have known any other country besides this one and nevertheless facing deportation to countries they have never known. she held the floor without a break, without being interrupted, without sitting down for eight hours and seven minutes. she passed the record all the way back at 3:20 this afternoon. but then she kept going for hours longer. leader pelosi's office confirmed

in response to questions from reporters that, yes, she did do the whole thing in high heels, 4-inch heels to be precise. 4-inch heels which i measured on my own shoe. can you see that? use a ruler so you can see. 4-inch heels. i made myself some heels. so that's a lot. i don't know if i could do that for eight minutes let alone eight hours, but nancy pelosi first female speaker of had house, long-term leader of democrats and today at age 77 she broke an endurance record no young whippersnapper has ever taken a shot at even while wearing loafers. now, what this means in political terms i'm not sure we know yet. there was no advance notice that nancy pelosi was going to do

this today. she just sort of sprung it on everybody. it may have been key to her success, i don't know. but the surprise factor also meant for much of the day there really wasn't any coordinated pr effort around what she was doing. democrats didn't appear to be spending the day trying to promote the fact this was happening. a lot of the media was late to figure out this was going on. but, you know, this is novel, never done before, break through the noise tactic to try to up the pressure on paul ryan to finally allow a vote on the dreamers after all his happy talk on the subject and never actually taking any action, this was a real concerted effort to up the pressure on him about that. this does reflect democrat's frustration this isn't getting fixed for 800,000 young people after all this time. and yes, at its heart it's political. democrats don't have the power to get this done on their own or it would be done. if they can't make it happen, they at least want latino voters

and immigrants and people who support immigration and the 87% of americans who say this ought to get fixed, they want all of those american voters to know even if democrats do not have the power right now to fix this problem alone, they want to fix it and they will at least pull out all the stops trying to get it done. and yes, that's politics. that's the pr part of this, the demonstration, in fact, part of this. but, yeah that's what politics is supposed to be like. you make a principle stand for what you want and fight like heck to get it done. and whether or not you get it done, you persuade people to vote for you because they want to help you get it done. that's politics at its best. i think some other important context for what happened up there today is that democrats right now, specifically democrats today are on a bit of a high in terms of what they think their chances are of getting back in power, of

winning the house, winning control in some of the states. and that high is because of some elections that happened last night, elections that swung in democrats direction by surprisingly gigantic margins. margins big enough, i think the democrats themselves didn't quite know what to make of it when the results came in. now, we closed out the very last seconds of show last night watching these results start to come in. these were four impossible seats for democrats to win that were all aup last night. four special elections for four legislative seats in missouri. this isn't like that lower left-hand corner, that isn't trump winning with 63% of the vote, that trump's winning in that district by a 63% margin. right, these are seats so red that for, you know, obvious reasons democrats didn't bother trying to run someone in any of

these districts in the last election. they didn't even try. but since trump got elected, since the 2016 election, something has been going on that's making democrats give places like that a second look. making democrats take a second look at places where it looked insane to even try just a couple of years ago. last year 2017, obviously not a national election year, but there were still elections all the time, mostly special elections where a seat becomes vacant for some reason and they have to hold a special election to fill it. special elections tend to be low turn out events. and we know the lower the turn out, the better republicans' chances are, so as a jeperal rule special elections tend to go poorly for democrats because they're low turn out events and it benefits republicans. but that's not the way it worked out last year, though. last year there were 70 special

contested elections all over. there were four instances all year when a republican flipped a seat from blue to red. there were 34 times including with a u.s. senate race when democrats flipped a seat red to blue. and even when democrats didn't win, special elections shifted blue last year on average by a ton. on average democrats running last year in races all over the country, they did ten points better than clinton did in the race in 016. that's average nation wide-. so that includes very red states and very blue states and places that are perm, too. it's a ten-point shift on average for the democrats. and remember hillary clinton did actually win the popular vote in 2016. and that was 2017. so so far this year in 2018, which is still a newborn baby as

far as years go, so far this year there have already been nine special contested elections. this year so far was 23 points. well, now after democrats turned in these results last night in missouri on those red, red states in missouri, now the national average swing for the democrats is even bigger. special elections this year, it's an average swing of 27 points towards the democrats. last night the swing towards democrats was so big in these four missouri races, it actually flipped one of those super safe republican seats. in a district where trump won 28 points, they had a 38 point swing towards democrats. and that was enough to flip that seat, to install a new democratic member of the legislator in missouri. mathematically that looked impossible before missouri democrats did it last night. now, democrats look at trends like that. they look at numbers like that

and they say, wow, no seat is safe for a republican anywhere. not if there's a 30 point swing in democrats direction even in red states. right, that gets democrats' blood really pumping. now, here's the question. does that really mean democrats are doing so well this year they're going to win the house, maybe even the senate? hugely important question. among other things that would mean passing legislation that matters to democrats rather than coming up with new and creative ways to plead with republicans to please allow votes on those things. of course, if democrats wore the house and senate they would make all the difference in the world when it comes to the trump administration and the protections of the investigations at the special counsel office's and all that stuff. the former president of the united states, barack obama and

eric holder have mounted a specific effort to target democrat energy in 2018. and it's interesting given this context, they're looking at this environment and they're deciding on a strategy that does not count on a big blue wave, making no seat safe anywhere for republicans. they're not counting on some big democratic shift nation wide-being enough for democrats to get done what they need to do. today the national democratic redistricting committee, which is being convened by president obama and former attorney general eric holder, today they put out a target list of the 12 states they are targeting for democratic gains this year. and they're being even more specific than that. in north carolina, for example, their targeting the state senate and the governor's house.

and yes the legislator in the governor's race, but they're also targeting a ballot measure to ungerrimand that state. so ohio no longer gives republicans an insurmountable head start in winning congressional seats. democrats really have been feeling giddy about their prospects in this year's elections. and their record in elections over the last 15 months tells you a lot about why. president obama and eric holder are looking at that set of same facts and pursuing a different kind of plan. a plan that is not giddy and does not depend on giddiness. it is really specific, and it's for a really specific reason. joining us now is former attorney general, now the chairman of the national redistricting committee, eric holder. thanks for being with us tonight. >> good to see you, rachel. >> so let me ask if my setup does you justice in terms of the way you're seeing this.

i look at it plan you're working on at the national redistricting committee, and see that as something that seems very specific. it seems you've got a goal that doesn't depend on there being a big blue wave. >> we certainly want to have substantial numbers of voters participating in the process. that will always benefit democrats, but i think there is a structural problem caused by the jergerrymandering that was e after the census in 2011, of seats that were uncontested for republicans in the house at about 15 to 16 members, the house of representatives. and in the state legislators you see that problem manifest in a whole variety of way. so there are structural things we have to get through, ask that's what the national democratic redistricting committee is all about. getting to a place where we have elections that are more fair, so that people when they go to the polls and express their views,

especially end up having a chance to elect a person who will reflect their policy choices. >> so how long a horizon is this? obviously the census year is 2020. 2021 is when legislators would start redoing legislator redistricting overhauls based on new census data. what kind of time line do you have on this project? >> we are looking to impact elections in 2018. we worked in virginia and had success. we had in essence what was a wave, a wave for democrats in virginia, but we were unable to take the state assembly. even though there was a ten-point deferential with republicans and democrats in terms of the votes. unable to overtake the republicans in the state of virginia, and that i think is function of the way the lines were drawn. in 2018 we're going boo be

looking at ten states and see where are the places we can make a difference and support candidates that will have an impact on the census in 2020. the people we elect in 2018 to four-year terms will be the very people who will draw the lines in 2021. >> and in terms of making a difference in those races are we really going to see you and president obama stomping for local offices, like statehouse seats where there might be only a couple of votes cast in total? these are really local elections. >> yeah, democrats have got to go into the states. i will be in wisconsin in april, probably the latter part of march. there is a wisconsin supreme court seat that is up, and i will be campaigning there. the president will be campaigning as well. he will be talking to us about the kinds of places where we think his influence can have an impact. and i would expect you'll see him doing things you might not expect of a former president in

terms of the level, the level at which he will become involved. and the same thing for me. >> do democrats get what you're trying to do? i was trying to sort of contrast, i think, the general democratic feeling or at least democratic observers feeling with what's going on right now with the specificity of what you are trying to achieve here and why. do people get it? do you have the support -- i saw "the times" you raised a $16 million out of $30 million. target. i wondered if that was ahead of where you want to be or behind where you want to be? >> we're ahead in term of funding. we're one year into that cycle, and so we are a little above where we ought to be. and i think democrats do get it. i think the consciousness has been raised about gerrymandering. if you look at the state of wisconsin where democrats won over 26% of the vote and you

look at it congressional delegation democrats only have one third of the seats. if you look to at the legislator democrats only have one third of the seats. and people are seeing there are problems with that, that the system is in fact rigged, that people's votes in some ways done matter. and people are upset about that. they want to come up with ways in which they can rectify that situation. and i'm not being hibr balk when i say this, but people want to save our democracy. >> and i would be remisif i did not ask you something of what's going on right now between the fbi and just s department and white house. can i ask you to stay right there and i will ask you both of those things when i come back? >> sure, that's fine. >> stay with us. i'm your phone, stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling.

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these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. we're back now with former attorney general eric holder. mr. attorney general, thank you again for doing this. today you were at an event in washington, d.c. and after your remarks you were asked by politico.com, a reporter for politico, whether you thought special counsel robert mueller

has enough evidence to prosecute president trump for obstruction of justice. you told politico today, quote, is there a technical case there now? i think so, no. why did you say that? what did you base that on? >> well, i think you're talking about a technical case as opposed to one that you might be bring out. if ones looks at the dismissal of james comey and the reasons why the president told lester holt he did that. it if you look at the president's attempts of intelligence agencies oo get involved in this matter, if you look at the president's actions on that airplane with that statement among a variety of other things i think you technically have a case of obstruction of justice. i'm not saying this is case you bring at this point, and i don't think what other evidence the special counsel has. but based on the reports in the media and assuming those reports are accurt, i do think i have a technical case of obstruction of justice. >> if you were an attorney

general right now, you would be overseeing robert mueller's special counsel investigation the way rod rosenstein is say right now, and that means they have to come oo to him with investigation decisions, opening up new lines and also bringing charges against somebody. if you were in that oversight role, what kind of a process would you go through? how would you evaluate what to do if the special counsel came to you and said, where plan to charge the president of the united states with obstruck tio of justice. how would someone in that oversight role decide that's a popular decision in. >> you have to look at the relevant interpretation of the various statutes and policies that exist within the justice department. there are office of legal council opinions to deal with whether or not a sitting president can be indicted. so you certainly want to look at those. but i also know there are opinions that take a contrary

view that were prepared by special counsel in the watergate scandal as well as ken star. and also make a determineitatnd on whether i would allow the special counsel to proceed in that way. >> is it your view a president could be indicted? >> it's not said in law. and i've looked at all of those opinion, ask it seems to me there are, i think, fairly -- i think some fairly persuasive arguments that can be made that a president can be indicted. now, either the controlling opinion at least at this point is the one from the legal counsel office says that is not correct. i've read that opinion, and i have some issues with it. but it is not said law at this point. >> we are in some uncharted territory in terms of the relationship between the president and the justice

system. in the last few months we have watched the president and some of his supporters in congress really work to discredit the fbi around the investigations into the president and his campaign but also sort of in general. in several cases they have called out in concerted efforts, they've called out by names specific fbi officials, the case of fbi director andrew mccabe, he was essentially pressured out of bureau. he was retired last month. he's 40 years old. there's also been concerted campaigns against other senior name and fbi officials. when you're in charge of the justice department and something like that arises, i know you didn't have to face that kind of thing, but is the something that an attorney general or that other people in positions of authority can do to deal with those kinds of attacks? would there be -- is there more that an attorney general or anybody else could have done to shield the fbi and justice department officials from the kind of pressure they've been getting? >> that is the exact role an

attorney general has. you are supposed to shield your people from political pressure. and one of the things that disturbs me the most is the fact this attorney general has for whatever reason been relatively silent. when attacks are going against career people at the fbi, career people at the united states department of justice, i have to think that the leadership knows these are spurious attacks, that they're inconsistent with the rep tags that these people have, the way in which they've conducted themselves over the years. and those voices, those leadership voices need to be heard in defense of the people who they supervise. it's a privilege to be the attorney general of the united states. what you have to do if you are an ag is protect the values that define the institution and the people that define that institution. >> if the attorney general fails at that, is there a plan b in turps of doing the most to up hold the rule of law, up holds law enforcement when the attorney general doesn't take

that heat? what are our other options as a country? >> well, you know, our institutions are strong. our norms are being tested, but they are also strong. the people who work in the department, the people who work at the fbi are strong. and they will continue to conduct themselves in appropriate ways. they will make tough decisions and conduct investigations. but they do so under a pressure that i think is in some ways unnecessary in the sense that an attorney general might blunt some of it. but the real problem here is the president. the president going after named career people. the president saying things about the integrity of the those two institutions, the justice department, the fbi. no other president has ever said those kinds of things, conducted himself in that way. and he's doing long-term harm to the reliable and integrity of the justice department and to the fbi. long after he's gone, we will see the impact of these attacks. >> would you make a better

president? how is that? pretty good i snuck that in there, right? >> that's pretty good. i think any one of my kids would make a better president than donald trump. but, you know, i think there are a number of people who would be a better president than the person we now have in the white house who has broken through those norms, conducted himself in a way that's inconsistent about what's best about this nation, labeled people in very inappropriate ways, used inappropriate terms when talking about countries, turning his back on our immigrant heritage. yeah, there are a number of people i think would be better president than donald trump. >> are you going to think seriously about running this year, sir? >> well, i'm folkicusing with

regard to redistricting, i'm focusing my efforts there. ask i will make a decision at the end of this year what i want to do with regard to a higher office. >> the chairman of the national democratic redistricting committee, thanks for being with us tonight. i know you're super busy, sir. >> thanks for having me, rachel. still ahead tonight, the surprise regination at the white house today from a top presidential staffer who we learned today didn't have a security clearance for his entire time in office, and that may have been because of the serious accusations from both of his ex-wives that he engaged in domestic violence during those relationships, and that that information was conveyed to the fbi. that story is next. stay with us. me. [cars honking] [car accelerating] you can switch and save worry. ♪ you can switch and save hassle. [vacuuming sound] and when you switch to esurance, you can save time, worry, hassle and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance

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in august 2016 there was a big political shakeup in the presidential campaign. donald trump's presidential campaign announced that paul manafort was out and henceforth the new guy running the campaign would be the guy from the website, breitbart.com. steve ban was announced to be the new head of the trump campaign august 17th. the following week on august 25th politico was the first to report that steve bannon had been criminally charged in a domestic violence case involving his former wife. the a police report described in detail what happened on august

1996. quote, she ran into the house with him following her, she called 911 as she headed into the living room where the 7-month old twins were. mr. bannon jumped over her and the twins to grab the phone from her. once he got the phone, he threw it across the room. bannon's wife told police he hadn't just hurt had phone, he had hurt her. bannon quote, reached up to her from the driver's seat of his car, grabbed her left wrist. he pulled her down as if he were trying to pull her into the car, he pulled her down to the door. mr. bannon grabbed at her neck, also pulling her into the car. police noted in their police report they saw physical evidence to back up his wife's claims. and also writing, i saw red marks on her wrist and red mark on her neck. these were photographed. police officers put in their report that mr. bannon's wife

described three or four arguments that had also become physical. that incident resulted in criminal charges being brought against steve bannon, domestic violence, battery and dissuading a witness. charges were filed against steve bannon in that case, but when it came up for trial the case got dismissed because the alleged victim, steve bannon's wife couldn't be located to testify. a couple of days after that bombshell report from politico nbc news got ahold of a court filing after the couple's divorce where steve bannon's wife explained her absence. she said that steve bannon's defense attorney told her to leave town. that if i wasn't in town, they couldn't serve me. and also if i went to court, he and his attorney would make sure i would the one who was guilty. so steve bannon when the story

surfaced he said through a spokesperson he has a great relationship with his ex-wife and twin daughters. and u and ultimately these charges were dropped. but all these reportings came out a week after he was named the ceo of the trump campaign. and what happened as a result of that reporting was bupkis, nothing. she went onto serve in the cam ta pain to the bitter end where and they never bothered to address whether they knew about this domestic violence. so when they decided to hire steve bannon, whether they vetted him and found this out, they didn't care. it was okay with them. you might remember when the president nominated the ceo of carls, jr., the secretary of labor. and it was then once again

politico that first broke the news that his ex-wife had also made serious allegations of domestic violence. she had appeared on a 1980 episode of oprah titled high class, battered women. >> he vowed revenge. he said i will see you in the gutter. this will never be over, you will pay for this. >> eight months after that appearance on the oprah winfrey show his ex-wife retracted her allegations of abuse as part of a child custody agreement. she has said actually he was not abusive. he has denied those allegations. but after that story came out, he withdrew his nomination for labor secretary. he didn't become a member of the cabinet. but the trump administration is even now considering find agnew role for him. the president still likes him, wants him around and wants to give him a high profile job. the president himself has also

of course faced domestic violence allegations. journalist harry hurt obtained a copy of ivaughna trump's sworn deposition and in his book, lost tycoon" he detailed episodes of violence and rape. she has since recanted those allegations against donald trump. when the daily beast tried to report out that episode and figure out what happened there not long before trump announced his presidential bid, trump's lawyer michael cohn, told the daily beast there's no such thing legally of a man raping his wii. he said, quote, you cannot rape your spouse, there's no clear case law. that's not true at all. i will never forget these threats. i have to say we've covered these a couple of times on the show. michael cohn said to the daily beast reporters, quote, i will

make sure we meet one day in the courthouse and take every penny you have and come after the daily beast. and i will mess your life up for as long you're on this freaking planet, so i warn you to tread very effing lightly because what i'm going to do to you is going to be effing -- you understand me? there's a sensitive issue on this subject. well, today the white house staff secretary, which doesn't sound like a big job but it is, a very senior and influential aide to president trump announced plans to resign following a serious allegation from the daily tabloid, alleging allegations of physical abuse from his two ex-wives. rob porter denies the allegations. his first ex-wife told the daily

mail he punched her during their marriage. she also detailed what it felt like when he choked her. she said it was scary and dehumanizing. they divorced, porter remarried. porter's second wife, now second ex-wife, said she was walking on egg shells during their marriage because it was explosive anger. she said he once pulled her naked from the shower by her shoulders. according to "the washington post," both of porter's ex-wives were interviewed by the fbi when he was selected by that job. standard procedure. nbc news has confirmed that rob porter was not in fact granted security clearance. one of porter exwive's said when the fbi answered whether porter might be vulnerable to blackmail, she answered yes because of the number people aware of the usbusive behavior.

she said, quote, i thought by sharing my story with the fbi he wouldn't be put in that post. rob porter denies these allegations. he said, quote, i took the photos given to the media 15 years ago. i've been transparent and truthful about these vile claim, but i will not further the gauge publicly with a coordinated smear campaign. so that is porter's response as he resigns from the white house. but as for the white house chief of staff john kelly released a statement yesterday saying, quote, rob porter is a man of true integrity and honor and i can't say enough good things about him. i'm proud to serve alongside him. general kelly then sent that same statement out again after the second round of allegations were published today including a photo. but this is going to be hard to explain away from the white house and for the white house chief of staff john kelly in particular. cnn is reporting that white house officials including john kelly have known about these abuse allegations for months

including the fact they were conveyed to the fbi. quote, by early fall it was widely known by trump's aides including chief of staff john kelly he was having troubles obtaining security clearance and that both otherwise ex-wives claimed he had abused them. kept him on anyway is and kept giving him more and more responsibility. "vanity fair" reports tonight they are deeply frustrated. what remains to be seen how much this actually matters in this particular white house in the face of multiple domestic abuse allegations including photos. the instinct of the white house chief of staff reportedly was to tell porter to stay and fight. i don't think what kind of embarrassment or ethics makes you change that, but there is movement on this. we actually got a brand new statement on john kelly on this. we'll have that next. stay with us. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps.

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what can a president [ do in thirty seconds? he can fire an fbi director who won't pledge his loyalty. he can order the deportation of a million immigrant children. he can threaten an unstable dictator armed with nuclear weapons. he can go into a rage and enter the nuclear launch codes. how bad does it have to get before congress does something?

we have just gotten a new statement from white house chief of staff john kelly responding again to this fairly shocking news that a senior white house official is resigning after allegations of physical abuse from his two ex-wives, allegations that may have presented him from getting security clearance for the full year he's been working at the white house at a very senior job. porter denies the allegations. the report is that nobody asked for his resignation, but chief of staff john kelly praised porter in over the top term, calling him a man of integrity and honor whom he's proud to serve alongside, and the chief of staff has been sticking to that in the couple of days even as the allegations have mounted and even of this photo of one of

his ex-wives that she says porter administered to her in 2006. tonight we gotten a new statement from john kelly which he stopped praising and defending rob porter this is the new statement, i was shocked by the new allegations released against rob porter there's no place for domestic violence in our society. i stand by my original nam comments about the rob porter i have come to know since becoming chief of staff. and believe every individual deserve it is right to defend their reputation. >> joining us is one of the reporters following this. i appreciate your time, thank you for being here. >> good evening, rachel. good to be on. >> there's two different tracks on which this story continues to proceed. one is the facts about mr. porter's previous relationships and the

allegations made against him by his ex-wives. the other track is what the white house knew? how senior a job he was in. how early the white house knew that there were these serious allegations against him? serious enough they prevented him from getting a security clearance. what can you tell us about how the white house is handling this news and coming up with an explanation for how he lasted there this long. >> he's more than a year into the trump administration. rob porter was one of the senior people who has been there from the beginning. he has a very senior role in the white house. it's not really a household name the staff secretary. but it's an important job. you see him in these pictures every time president trump signs a bill or executive order there's rob porter handing him the paperwork. he handles all the information flow to and from the white house. he had been working on a

temporary security clearance from the beginning based on this fbi investigation, which we now know did speak to his two ex-wives who detailed these allegations of domestic abuse to the fbi. because of that he did not receive a permanent security clearance. but a permanent security clearance isn't necessarily a prereck sit to getting white house employment. you know, the security clearance is really at the discretion of the president for these high-level jobs. and so he was able to continue to operate. now how long the white house had known about this? we know they had known for at least a matter of weeks or months that these allegations were out there but it wasn't until british tabloid last night published these allegations that the white house took action. >> in terms of the security clearance issue, i take your point absolutely this is something within the president's discretion. the president, if he wanted to, could give somebody a security

clearance, could clear people to look at things, could declassify things if he wanted to. famously it's been reported that his son-in-law jared kushner with his broad portfolio in the white house has also been unable to obtain a permanent security clearance. sit clear from this point that the white house was aware that these domestic violence allegations were the specific holdup or at least part of the hold up for what was blocking mr. porter from getting a clearance? >> someone at the white house must have been aware. unlike other agencies, the department of defense and intelligence agencies, the white house polices its own through a new office, the office of security, it's part of the office of management and administration, they're the ones who receive the fbi background reports and have to make a judgment about whether somebody is cleared for a security clearance. whether the chief of staff knew about that, remember that john kelly was not the chief of staff

when rob porter came on -- >> good point. >> -- he was the secretary of homeland security. so what did the chief of staff know and when did he know it? i don't know. but as you've been pointing out tonight, the chief of staff's own statements have been sort of slow to recognize the gravity of this until a few moments ago in that statement he read where he says that domestic violence has no place in society. >> greg gourdy white house correspondent, thank you for your reporting and thank you for your time today. we'll be right back. stay with us. there are two types of people in the world. those who fear the future... and those who embrace it. the future is for the unafraid. ♪ ♪

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what are you doing on tuesday? tuesday next week, tuesday february 13th, day before valentine's day. i can tell you, i'm going to be cuddling up with the annual worldwide threats hearing before the senate intelligence committee. they have an all-star lineup, wray, pompeo, coats, they're all testifying in open session on tuesday. we found out today it's happening next week. here's a thing to keep an eye on, do our intelligence chiefs in open session, where we can watch, get grilled about their russian counter parts. it was going to be a secret until the kremlin let us know that the top three spies were invited into the united states,

including one banned for sanctions. it was the russian tass that first spilled the bill. routers followed up on the headline, russia's foreign spy chief met last week with washington u.s. intelligence feshls. and cia mom mike pompeo met with two russian spy chiefs. just days before the white house announced we wouldn't be imposing new sanctions on russia for them meddling with our elections despite a law passed by congress that they have to. how a russia spy was able to come to the fbi in the first space caused a request how they got in, who they met with, and who cleared the guy to get in here who is legally banned from coming to our country. so far as we know the director

of national intelligence, dan coats, has no responded. cia director mike pompeo did with his trademark wit, we periodically meet with our russian intelligence counter parts to keep americans safe. mike pompeo will be there on tuesday. even if worldwide threat day is a bust, i have an idea it's going to be a good hearing. that does it for us tonight now it's time for the "last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> good evening. mike pompeo's wit is nothing compared to rachel maddow's whit. >> that's nice. >> rob porter being pushed out has been developing all night. that john kelly statement that came out at 9:30 tonight apparently was the end of a long day of him fighting to safe rob porter's job. reports indicate he was inside the white house saying you don't