great "andrea mitchell reports" coming up. >> thank you. right now, the interview. as he starts his next chapter, former vice president joe biden talking about the breaking news today that a close trump aide, accused of domestic violence and denied a top security clearance by the fbi was allowed to work alongside president trump in the oval office. >> i can't explain it. i'm having enormous difficulty understanding how this white house functions. >> the damage done to america's standing in the world by the president's divisive language. >> i wonder how somebody could be so cavalier, again, taking all of the -- i can't think of another president in american history, even during the civil war, for god's sake, that talked this way. >> and what might be next for

his own political future. >> my calculation has never been who's running, can i win, can i not win. it's, is this right for me to do? ♪ ♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington with new details on the latest scandal to rock the trump white house. the resignation of staff secretary rob porter, after allegations of abuse by both of his ex-wives became public, including disturb images of a black eye his first wife said was the result of physical violence. a white house official confirms to nbc news he could be departing as soon as today. he released a statement saying these outrageous allegations are simply false. i took the photos given to the media nearly 15 years ago and the reality behind them is nowhere close to what is being described. i have been transparent and truthful about these vile claims but i will not further engage

publicly with a coordinated smear campaign. chief of staff john kelly over the course of the last 24 hours shifted from full support to porter to saying he was shocked by the new allegations in a second statement released late wednesday night. this has vice president joe biden says today's controversy raises questions about how this white house functions. biden also questioning whether the president tells the truth and how he's damaging america's reputation around the world. i sat down with the vice president earlier today as he begins a new venture today, the penn/biden center being inaugurated today near the capitol. let me ask you about something that is breaking today. you've been a big supporter of combatting violence against women, the legislation. here you have the fbi warning the white house, this white

house, for months that one of the top advisers in and out of the oval office was accused by two ex-wives of domestic abuse. how do you explain his access to the president of the united states and the chief of staff frankly in the last 24 hours, describing him as a man of personal integrity? >> i can't explain it. it's long past due that he left. i understand he's departed. if you just look at it from a perspective of one thing, the fbi didn't think he should get a permanent security clearance. >> they had to know that. >> sure, they knew that. >> they were warned? >> and -- look, the culture's changing, but not fast enough. the idea that this would happen in the oval office. now, i don't know, i heard in the way i was briefed on the way in that when the president found out about it, he said go. if that's the case that the president never knew about it, good for the president. >> how could the president not know that one of his closest

advisers did not have a top security clearance? what does that say about the president and this white house? >> oh, andrea, look, i'm having enormous difficulty understanding how this white house functions and who's on first, who's on second and who's pitching, who's catching. i mean, it really is confusing. all i know is that the result of this seems like controlled chaos, it's damaging us internationally, domestically, and i can't quite understand how they can't get their arms around just the functioning, the day-to-day functioning of the white house. >> well, let me take you back to what you said just the other day about whether the president should sit down for an interview with robert mueller. and you said that your advice -- you're a lawyer -- would be that

he should not, because to quote you, he has some difficulty with precision. what do you mean by that is this. >> well, there have been so many misstatements, deliberate misstatements. and you look at him and wonder what in the heck is he talking about. from the first day, saying that the largest crowd ever at an inauguration, to talking about things that are simply not true. but it's almost like it's -- it's been dumbed down so much almost like it doesn't matter. but he says things -- >> but it does matter because he's the president of the united states. >> it matters immensely. it matters immensely. but it's just, i find him just not credible in the things he says. >> do you mean that he's a liar? >> look, i'm not going to call the president of the united states a liar. he does not tell the truth. he's not accurate in much of what he says. >> so to take it further, if he

does not agree to an interview, does that mean he's above the law? >> no. he can be subpoenaed. look, i was literally answering the question, if i were his lawyer, what would i recommend. now, i think he should go before the counsel. he says he wants to do it. do it. go ahead. but i was answering a literal question. i put on my hat as a lawyer. were i his lawyer, would i let him go before the counsel and answer questions? i would be very, very concerned. you can tell his whole team is concerned about what he says. i mean, you have the chief of staff a long time ago allegedly trying to stop his tweeting. and it's not just his tweeting, it's inaccurate tweeting. he's like a loose cannon. and i don't -- but he should, a president should be prepared to answer the questions about one of the most serious security breaches that's occurred in

american history, russia attempting to affect an impact on the american intellectual process. they're doing it in europe on a regular basis. >> mexico? >> mexico. they're doing it -- and they're trying to deconstruct a liberal order, the notion of freedom of democracy, they're trying to deconstruct all the things that were built up after warorld wari that were designed to -- and i just can't fathom, i can't fathom why the president, just as a patriotic american, let alone as president, would not be looking for every single bit of data in evidence that would show what they were doing and what they're attempting to continue to attempt to do. >> let me just button down whether he should submit to an

interview or not. >> obviously he should. >> can the president of the united states take the fifth and not suffer grievous political harm, or can this president get away with taking the fifth? >> well, i -- you know, if the president took the fifth, he is by definition, in my view, abdicating the responsibility of the presidency of the united states. the idea that a president of the united states says, i take the fifth, that i might incriminate myself in something that is this consequence, you know, that to me is constitutionally permissible as an individual. it's an abhorrent notion as a sitting president of the united states of america opinion. >> y-- the united states of america. you talked about the russian interference, the cia chiropractor and the secretary of state have said it's still going on. the secretary of state said we can't stop them between now and the mid terms. is that because this white house has not moved aggressively? >> absolutely.

look, my understanding -- and i don't know, i don't have access to classified information anymore. i don't get briefed every morning by the agency as i did for eight years. what we do know is, their attempts are continuing. what we do know, what i'm told, is, there has not been an interagency, bringing all the relevant agencies together at one time in one meeting, to focus on how do we stop them. to the best of my knowledge, there's not even been an interagency meeting to do something about this. >> foreign relations committee democratic report said that's negligence. >> it is negligence. it's absolutely negligence. you're talking about secretary of state saying, we know they're still doing this and we can't stop them. what have you done? have you brought together the cia, have you brought together all the agencies of the federal government that have the capacity, at least, to be able

to stop and thwart what they're doing? haven't even done that. >> why do you think this president is so reluctant to take on vladimir putin? >> look, i -- you know, i -- i want to give every american, including the president, the benefit of the doubt. but i can't fathom any reason other than, he is concerned what putin might say or do, or what information he may or may not have. but unrelated to the issue of whether or not there's collusion, separate and apart from all that, it's necessary for us to stem this problem. it's necessary for us to corral the russians. i just wrote a major piece in foreign affairs, talking -- and the first call i get, i got a call from former prime minister wanting to put together a group of six or seven, sitting and

non-sitting prime ministers, representing the pana plea of left to right in europe to set up an international commission on russian interference in europe. after i wrote the article. i mean, what has to be done? what has to be done to convince these guys that they're being derelict in their duty and they are, in fact, jeopardizing american security? >> is it appropriate for the president to be attacking the fbi, as he has from day one, when the fbi is investigating him? >> let's assume the fbi wasn't investigating him. let's assume the fbi was doing bad things. the way to settle it is internally, first fix it. then announce you fixed it. but we're making vladimir putin's case here. what is everything -- and i know you know this inside and out. what is vladimir putin's objective the last six, eight, ten years? it's to delegitimize the west.

delegitimize them. so here you have the president of the united states of america, saying that the single most important domestic law enforcement agency is not relevant, is not reasonable, is not honest, is not -- all those things. putin must be sitting behind his desk in the kremlin going, it's working, man. the rest of the world gets the message that the united states of america's chief law enforcement agency is not truthful, is not honest, is plotting against him, is a deep state. my god! >> well, you knew this was happening, to a certain extent before the election. >> yes. >> the administration, your administration said something on october 7th. the agencies were working on it. president trump says that if you had thought he would win, you would have been more outspoken, but you were so confident hillary clinton was going to win. would you have been more

forceful, spoken out more if you thought she were going to lose. >> it had nothing to do with that. first of all, we didn't have the information that we ultimately had in january. number one. number two, we didn't want to play into putin's hands, doing the thing that he was trying to do. what would have happened if barack obama had come out and said, the fbi has information that the trump team is colluding with the russians to try to tip the election to hillary clinton? it would have been chaos. and we didn't have the data we have now. we didn't have the data we had even in january. and we did go before the election, to mitch mcconnell and say, we should put out a joint statement, so we don't make russia's case for them, that we jointly are, democrat and republican, not bringing a judgment who's a bad guy, who's a good guy, we're looking at russian enterfeerinterference i election. they wouldn't do it. >> hillary clinton and her supporters certainly are blaming

it all on james comey because she was -- the momentum was rising and, bam, he came out late in the game and re-opened the e-mail investigation. do you blame james comey? would she have won if not for james comey? >> it's hard to make that judgment, what would have happened. but we're mixing two things now. james comey wasn't investigating the russians. james comey was investigating her e-mails. so i just want to make sure -- i know you didn't intend to do that -- >> but if he had not re-opened the e-mail investigation -- >> straight question. look, there's no doubt it had to hurt her. whether that was enough to make the 72,000-vote difference in the key states, it remains to be seen. but let me put it this way, it sure didn't help. >> would she have won if she were a better candidate? >> i think what happened was something we've never seen in american politics. the vast majority of people in

and out of public life and the press thought that he had disqualified himself 15 times, you know, by the things he said about his groping women, the -- and what i realized, the shoren steen school at harvard university did a study. only 4% of all the chatter and all the news about hillary clinton had to do with issues. he was -- looking at it in retrospect, think about it when he started losing the fight in the floor of the house and the senate on health care, what did he do? he started talking about taking a knee in a football game, kaeperni kaepernick, and these distracting initiatives, which you think would be disqualifying issues for this candidate, seem to work for him. but she was never able to get to the subject matter. for example, what are you going to do about middle class

families? how do women who are qualified to work, pay $22,000 a year in washington for childcare and still work? how do we make sure people making sending 60 grand a year can send them to college? all the things that affect middle class people, we never got to talk about. >> the first part of our interview. now to breakdown the headlines out of the first section of our interview with former vice president joe biden. chris matthews, host of "hardball" right here on msnbc. ruth marcus, and mike medley. >> we've been following joe biden a long time. but he very clearly said the president of the united states does not tell the truth, that he does not understand his position and their position on rob porter in today's breaking news, that resignation. >> well, two things. one's manners. and the other's confidence.

he's still old school on manners. he's not going to call someone a liar. he did call someone a joke the other day, and i think he regretted that. the fbi works with any politically elected government, like this trump administration. you rely on the fbi to do a full field investigation on every one of your employees. as a speech writer, you had to go through it. they had a full-field report on rob porter. that's all you need. so why did they have any more information required? they didn't act on it. that's a problem, not working with the fbi on something the fbi has absolute responsibility for, which is to check out people. >> and he talks about doing putin's business for him, doing his job for him, ruth, by attacking the fbi, which is investigating him. he says every citizen has the right to take the fifth amendment, but that as president of the united states, it would be derelict in your duty to take the fifth amendment if he is subpoenaed by the grand jury.

>> what i have scribbled down here, it's an abhorrent notion to imagine a president of the united states taking the fifth amendment in a criminal investigation involving his own conduct in office and during his candidacy and transition. and it is an abhorrent notion, and no other president who has found himself in that situation would have dared, i think, even to imagine it. no president's lawyers in this situation want him to go wander into the special counsel and start answering questions. you want to contain it. you want to slow-walk it. you want to limit it as much as possible. and that's what happened with president clinton back in the day. and obviously president trump's lawyers have a particular problem with this client because of the way this client tends to talk and tell things. i thought the vice president was very artful in the way that he said he's not a liar, but he

doesn't tell the truth. and yet the notion that in the end when the grand jury says and the special counsel says, no, we really seriously need to talk to you, that president trump would take the fifth, that is going to -- i think that moment very well could come and that is going to be a fascinating question of whether he can get away with that. >> and this was a shot across the bow. >> politically. >> mike, you've spent so much time covering joe biden. you've heard him on the book tour and in all of these different iterations. but it struck me today that he is, you know, deadly serious about the -- what democrats on the foreign relations committee that joe biden used to lead, is negligence. and he points out there has not been a single deputies committee meeting. they have not mobilized this government to counter the russian meddling in this election. >> it's fascinating to watch him in his interview with balance

the respect he still has for the institution, the office of the president, with his very real distress about what he's seeing happen in the oval office. you see him at his most animated when he's talking about an abuse of power. and he used that term in describing the situation that he sees here. i spend time dealing with different congressional investigations that are not focused on russia, that are talking about e-mails and texts. and what the vice president says in this interview is what we're hearing from democrats. we've taken our eye off the ball. we need to be focussing on what russia is doing. it's 12 days away from early voting in texas. this is 36 congressional races, a u.s. senate race, the governorship, and we haven't seen anything to get ahead of what our own reporting is about potential interference this year. >> in fact, there was an attempt to redirect it towards this election fraud commission which fell of its own weight and didn't hold a single meeting. chris, you can see and we'll

talk more with him in the next section, more about the politics of 2016, as well as 2020. but you can see that he's champing at the bit. >> i think this will be a role model he won't like to hear me say, but it's the nixon model from '66. he'd lost the governor's race, he was out of politics. when republican candidates for the house of representatives, backed them, he got the credit for that. if the democrats sweep the house, if they pick 30-plus seats and they win the whole thing, joe biden will be seen as the head of the cavalry. he will look like the winner he said to pat buchanan in one of the books i read, first '66. biden's role is first '18, and then we'll talk '20. >> that is what he, according to others who were present last night, what he was telling them, they have to focus on '18, and they have to get themselves

together. what we saw yesterday was nancy pelosi on the floor heroically for eight hours, but taking a position that contradicted the position that chuck schumer had just taken in negotiating a compromise with mitch mcconnell, which is going to be voted on today. >> somebody had to cover and so patience and paution for tssion cause of the dreamers. >> it's not clear at all that she's going to whiff. she said she would vote against the budget deal herself. not clear whether she'll demand that any of them come along. mike, the bottom line is, they're going to i have vote tod -- to have a vote today in the senate which will set the stage. >> it's interesting in how he's framing the argument, that this election year is not so much about the issue, and certainly democrats are struggling with how to balance the concerns of the dreamers with some of the other political head winds that might be on republicans. but this is a moment of national

urgency and democrats winning back the house is not just about a political victory, but important for the nation. you can see him maybe making that argument in 2020, that this is not about my credentials, but my ability at this moment of a national emergency, to do what's right. >> coming up, 2020, that vision. is joe biden planning a third presidential run? part two of our interview with the former vice president next on "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. lated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. my ability at this moment of a has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd backed by 15 years of clinical studies. my ability at this moment of a that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. that's why i fight. but through goodt times and bad at t. rowe price we've helped our investors

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as former vice president joe biden mulls his own political future, he's still talking to global leaders. i spoke to him about how foreign policy has evolved since he left office. let me ask you about north korea. your successor, mike pence, is in south korea now, taking a hardline, projecting that if he were to meet with the north koreans, he would take a tough line with them. should he? would it be useful to meet with the north koreans? perhaps even kim jong-un's sister, who is in the delegation? would that be a good thing? >> it could be a good thing to meet, but i think it is a much broader question. the broader question is, is this administration willing to take the risk to sit down with north korea, to determine whether they're serious at all about doing anything about the violations they're engaging in,

both from human rights to nuclear arms. and i think if the north koreans show any willingness to sit down, there should at least be a discussion. >> does mike pence talk to you? did he call you? >> no, but i've talked to him. from the time he got elected, i felt obliged to share with him the concerns that i thought he'd face immediately upon taking office. i have a cordial relationship with him, and when heads of state call me from other countries, i make sure that i let him know first and find out what's going on between this administration and that head of state. so i've kept communications open so that there's no concern on their part that i'm making a separate foreign policy. but there's a lot of leaders around the world, as you know, who are very concerned about whether we're advocating as

richard haas says, nation's lose their influence in different ways. one is abdicating, walking away. >> you said foreign leaders call you and say, what the hell is going on in america. what do you think the hell is going on in america? >> i think that, look, one of the reasons for establishing this center was to begin to have a coherent and organized effort to rally around the things that have kept us safe, secure, and prosperous since world war ii, which is to nurture freedom and democracy around the world. >> let me ask you about that. you said you had not criticized president trump until after charlottesville. what was it about charlottesville that crossed a red line for you? >> it violated the dignity of the office, the essence of who we are as americans, and it was

a fundamental assault on the notion of how we deal with hate and how we deal with venomous people. when you have people coming out of fields carrying torches, singing the same exact verse that was sung by the nazis in berlin and munich, and white supremacists standing alongside them, and with those people objecting to it, and making a moral equivalence, there's good people on both. that message is sent to our children. our children are listening, for god's sake, let alone the message it sends around the world. >> what happens when the president is credibly reported to have described the entire continent of africa as s-hole countries? >> it absolutely damaged -- you see the polling now, how we have dropped in terms of the report

relative to other nations since he's been president. one of the reasons hewe've beeno respected and followed by so many countries is not just the example of our power, but the power of our example. when the president does these things, he makes a lie of who we say we are, what we're about. you know, brooks talks about societies organize in three ways. religion, tribe, or ideals. america's an idea. it's an idea. it's made up of ideals. and to take the sacred elements of what we say we stand for and have the president of the united states trample on them by what he says, is not only so incredibly disappointing, it is dangerous in terms of our long-term security and being able to influence the actions of other nations. >> when he accuses democrats of

being treasonous. they say it was a joke, but when he uses that language against the political opposition at the state of the union address for not applauding him enough, what's your reaction to that? >> i -- i wonder about his grasp of the role of any president. i wonder as to whether or not -- why every single thing he does is put through the prism of not how it affects america, but how it affects him. i wonder how somebody could be so cavalier, again taking all of the -- i can't think of another president in american history, even during the civil war, for god's sake, that talked this

way. >> how did you feel about his attacks against john mccain after mccain's vote against repealing obamacare? >> i find him despicable, those kind of quotes. despicable. >> have you been in touch with john? >> yes, i keep in touch with john regularly. >> how's he doing? >> he's doing well. he's a fighter. >> i know you have a bond because you suffered the same. >> john's been my friend for 40 years. we holler at each other, we disagree with each other. but if i called in the middle of the night and said, john, i need you to show up on 2nd and broad street, i can't tell you why, he'd come. i would for him too. >> what do you think of a military parade? the president says he wants a parade and he's ordered the pentagon -- is that a good idea? >> i'm very proud when you go

down to the marine barracks here, but if he means rolling missiles down pennsylvania avenue, i think it is -- i think it undercuts everything about our power. we don't -- everybody knows. we don't have to -- we display our pride. we don't have to display our power, our physical power, god almighty. we're the most powerful country in the history of the world. i don't know what it is about him. >> i gotta ask you about 2020. there's so many younger democrats, kamala harris, cory booker, and kirsten gillibrand -- >> really a lot of qualified -- >> is your presence on the stage and your decision-making, you're obviously considering it -- is that going to overshadow and prevent some of these younger democrats? >> no, no, no. look, i give you my word, i'm focused on one thing. electing a democratic congress

to stop this erosion of our -- of the core of who we are. and i'll look at that a year from now. >> could you have beaten donald trump? >> oh, i don't know. you know, you gotta be in the ring, man. you gotta be in the ring. i have no idea. >> was president obama wrong to anoint hillary clinton as the nominee? >> no. i think hillary clinton was -- look, the president knew -- he was the only one who knew what i was going through. i made a commitment to my son, that i would not let anybody know how serious his situation was. and he worked as attorney general until months before he died, three months before he died. showed up to work every day. and it was important to him. so the only person i could confide in, to tell him that i knew i was not going to -- i didn't think i'd be able to do it, unless there was some

miracle that happened and my boy made it, that it was highly, highly unlikely i'd run. so he knew that. he was the only one outside the family, including my staff, because beau would say, dad, don't even tell the staff. because we had planned on running. so the staff, if i had said, i'm definitely not running, at that point, they would have known. beau was not likely to make it. so, no, i -- and by the way, hillary earned the nomination. hillary, i think she would have made a great president. >> you made a sacrifice to sit down with us today -- >> no sacrifice. >> you could have been on broad street. >> well, that's true. >> at any of the art museums. >> that's true. >> and nick foles said the other day, don't be afraid to fail. failure is part of life. >> absolutely. >> part of building character. without failure, who would we be? >> he's absolutely right. >> does that inspire you when

you think about -- you've run for president twice -- when you think about the future? >> i think you've known me and a lot of your colleagues know me a long time. one thing i don't i've ever separated is i'm afraid of failure. and by the way, i was asked by the philadelphia television stations -- i was at the game -- what about nick. and he said, he and i have something in common. we've been standby equipment for a long time. and he stepped up, man. he stepped up. and i admire the devil out of him by having the poise to do what he did and take all the grief about whether he was up to it. he stepped up. but i think it's fair to say, maybe i would have been better off if i had a little more trepidation about some things. but fear of failure is not -- my dad used to have an expression. he'd say, joey, it's not whether you get knocked down.

it's how quickly you get up that measures success. >> so is there some part of joe biden who is identifying with nick foles and the team as they climb the steps of the art museum today? is there a part of you that thinks about rocky balboa? >> i look back on my career and my family and i've proud of them. they've climbed the stairs many times. they've climbed the stairs and steeper stairs than that. and so i don't -- i just think that's just part of the ethic. it's part of the ethic of how we were raised and who we are. you know, i -- like i said, my dad used to have another expression. he'd say, never complain and never explain. i have on my desk -- i guess they took it away -- a little hallmark card thing my dad bought. and it's in a little brass frame. and it has two frames from

haggar, the horrible, the cartoon character. his ship is on the rocks and he's sinking. he's raising his hand saying to me, why god? and the next frame, it says, why not? you just get up and fight back. and that doesn't -- i have plenty of time to consider whether or not to run for the president. we have really qualified people out there. the people you named are really impressive. are really impressive. and -- but that's not my calculation. my calculation has never been who's running, can i win, can i not win. it's, is this right for me to do? and the only thing that's right for me to do now is to try to stop this enormous erosion of the moral fabric that's at the

hands of donald trump and the republicans. >> thank you, joe biden. thank you, mr. vice president. >> and our panel is back with us. chris matthews, ruth marcus and mike memly. chris? >> i'm overwhelmed by the interview. he hasn't been giving interviews for months now. i think the word comes through that most people don't talk about him. respect. the respect he has for the office of the presidency. it's old world, it's ethnic, it's the neighborhoods talking. that's the way regular people talk about the president of the united states. and that sense of respect. i think if you see it and hear it in a public official, you say, well, that guy or that woman is more like me than some elitest because he has respect for the office. and i think it counters the resentment so many working class white people have towards the democratic party today. they don't seem to have respect at the top like we were taught to have. and biden has, with all his

limitations, he does share that regular person's respect and awe for this country. i think people like it. they say, he's like me, he shares my values. if he gets into that office, however he gets there, i trust him. >> interesting that he didn't choose to slam mike pence. because he knew him in congress, he knew him as the house budget chair, he knew him as a governor. >> they have a cordial relationship. >> at least. they certainly don't agree on a lot of values, but the difference between mike pence and donald trump is that donald trump came to the office without any government experience and also, one would argue, without respect are if tfor the office. >> i don't think it's his point that donald trump didn't have experience. listening to him, he made the case about president trump's conduct in office. he said to charlottesville, that the president makes a lie of who we say we are by not standing up and having this false

equivalence between the two sides. on the s-hole countries, he said it's dangerous in terms of our long-term security to talk about countries that way. on the use of treason, even if it's flippant by democrats, i wonder about his grasp, trump's, of the role of any president. that's an extraordinary set of things for the previous vice president to say about a successor. even of a different party. we have not heard that kind of language before. but we haven't had this kind of president before. >> and he said he didn't speak out until after charlottesville. >> right. >> mike? >> i think it's interesting in terms of the respect he's showing for the office and also for hillary clinton. i thought it was interesting, when you asked him very smartly about whether he was disappointed that obama had anointed her. he was careful in saying there were other considerations and the president was one of the few people who did know what he was going through and how serious beau's illness was. he writes differently in his

book. he talks about how in 2015 some of the lunches he would have every week with the president, he definitely got the impression that the president thought that hillary clinton was going to be the nominee and that the vice president would not be able to beat her in a primary and that would hurt his legacy. so i think we should not overlook what he said to you about how much he was considering running in 2016. and i love the nick foles' analogy. i think we should -- at the risk of out-philadelphiaing some of our eagles fans on set, to compare himself to someone who's been in a backup role but is prepared to step up is a good analogy. >> i love when he was up against the odds, an underdog team, and he kept throwing the amazing passes. everyone would say, go to a running game, don't get intercepted. >> and the coaching. >> pederson is great.

>> for joe biden, how does he navigate this? he spoke to the democratic caucus yesterday, and privately he's got concerns, clearly about the divisions among democrats, the progressives versus the moderates, and how they bridge that divide and come up with a way of connecting to voters, because they got whipped. >> this gets into opinion more than anything else. i don't know how you can talk about the democrats' choice for 2020 without getting into personal opinion. and i remember a couple of cases where parties have decided, this isn't the year we're going to win so we'll have fun. but this coming up in 2020 is a year they can clearly win, and they can clearly lose. trump could get re-elected. it's plausible. if they run the wrong candidate. so i think maybe the best story of the next two years will be, do the democrats realize they could lose again to trump?

>> or can they govern their impulses and control them both in 2018 to do what they need to do, to make this very powerful case that vice president biden makes, about dealing with the erosion of the kind of moral fabric of the presidency and making that case, and also the case that he's been so good about making on the white working class and average joes. or do they get pulled apart by party factions? it's going to be really interesting to see how they navigate that and whether they need an elder statesman-like figure to help them manage those tensions. >> and it's clear that the clinton contingent, and certainly the polling bears it out, that if not for comey, she was on track to win, if you can believe the polling. and that's a big if. it's almost a question as to whether it was the candidate at the time or comey.

>> i have to say, i was at the last event that joe biden did on behalf of hillary clinton. it was the night before the election. and he spoke at that event. he spoke after tim kaine who he thought hopefully was going to succeed him. and he was much more cautious about what was going to happen the next day. he said no matter what happens, we have to think about what we need to do to bring the country together. i spoke to him a month later, from the los angeles times, and he was very critical about the time of campaign that was run, that there wasn't enough attention paid to people like the ones he grew up with in scranton. and the argument he's making now, almost papering over the differences they still have as a party, to say, our argument this year is to say that donald trump is looking out for himself, that republicans are looking out for him. but telling the american people, we're looking out for you. and that's the way he's going to try to bring the party together now. >> thanks so much, mike, ruth, and chris. chris, of course, join him for "hardball" tonight and every

night right here on msnbc, 7:00 eastern. let's make a deal. what will it take to get house democrats behind the senate's bipartisan budget deal? i'll talk to congressman joe crowley next right here on "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] ♪ good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo.

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i know that there is a real commitment to solving the daca challenge in both political parties. that's a commitment that i share. to anyone who doubts my intention to solve this problem and bring up a daca and immigration reform bill, do not. we will bring a solution to the floor. so please know that we are committed to getting this done. >> the speaker of the house paul ryan today saying republicans will address daca and the dreamers. the fate of hundreds of thousands of so-called dreamers. joining me now is democratic congressman joe crowley, chairman of the democratic caucus. congressman, thank you for being here. is paul ryan's commitment good enough for you that the dreamers will be addressed? >> thank you, andrea, great to be with you as well. it hasn't been good enough yet. this has been a debate that's been going on for years now.

some would say decades. since 1986 quite frankly. paul ryan has yet to put a single immigration bill on the floor. since he's been speaker of the house of representatives. so we're still waiting to see. it's a lot of lip service so far. >> but nancy pelosi took the floor for more than eight hours, a marathon, yesterday, and she says she will not vote for the budget deal because it does not include the dreamers. >> i have no intention of voting for this bill. i think this bill not only because of the dreamers, i think it falls short in the aid to puerto rico and the virgin islands as well as disaster relief. there's a lot of good in this bill. i appreciate that. from my perspective, it's a bridge too far. i do think though nancy pelosi laid out the moral grounds as to why this is the civil rights and human rights issue of our day, as well as the economic issues. the folks who are in daca are contributing mightily to our economy and to deport them or a million people or a million plus people would have a severe

impact to the economy of the united states as well. >> is pelosi whipping it or are the democrats going to follow? because with mark meadows and the freedom caucus all complaining about it from the right, they need democratic votes for this to pass. >> well, to question how many votes they're going to need quite frankly. and i've heard upwards of 70 votes. what i would suggest is nancy pelosi is using her power of persuasion. she did it yesterday on the floor. she continues to speak to members. but i think members will do what's in the best interest of their constituency of the country as they see it. that's their charge as members of the house, democratic caucus. i intent to vote no. i'm talking to my colleagues as to why i'm taking that position. i think in the end people will have to do what they think is best. >> do you think it's going to pass? >> it remains to be seen. i do think if republicans need as many votes as they indicate, i think it's going to have a rough road, quite frankly, in the way it's been packaged so far. >> i was just talking to joe

biden. we just played the interview. and he talked to the democratic caucus. you were obviously there, leading the charge yesterday. what -- how would you characterize his appeal to democrats who are divided? you've got progressives and middle of the roaders and others who criticize the party for being too far to right or too far to left. how do you bridge those divides as you go into 2018? >> joe biden could have been from my hometown of woodside, queens. i often talk about two guys from queens. the queens that i grew up in and the queens that democrat democr -- that donald trump grew up in. i think joe biden really symbolizes that. what joe talked about yesterday, differences of opinion on certain issues. of course there are. are we on the same page? not always. we are all on the same chapter. that's what's important about

democrats. what divides us is -- compared to what divides us from republicans right now, paul ryan and his agenda, and certainly nothing that divides us more than this president. his own caucus, the republican conference. he's not going to be successful. what this country needs is balance. that's what democrats are going to be about, bring back in the 2018 elections, a better deal for the american people, better jobs, better wages and a better future for this country. >> right now, the dow -- and there's been so much volatility, it's down more than 630 points. does that weigh on you as you decide whether or not to -- >> i think at the end of the day, the republicans control both the house and the senate and the presidency. they overwhelmingly control the house of representatives. if they cannot put a budget bill on the floor that garner the support of the majority of their conference, that's their issue. it's not on democrats. we don't control the house. we don't control what bill comes to the house of the

representatives. paul ryan does. he has a rule that says a majority of -- the majority have to pass -- support a bill before they bring it to the floor. two can play that the game. i think at the end of the day, it's paul ryan's responsibility to get that bill passed. >> okay, joe crowley, thanks so much. we're watching the dow, which has fallen in the last hour. up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, more than a thousand workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. gillette - the best a man can get. hnew litter?lled this no.

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and that's it for today. for andrea mitchell reports. follow the show online on facebook and twitter twitter, @mitchellreports. >> nice to see you, thanks for having us here. i'm peter alexander in washington, d.c. in today for craig melvin this next hour. the white house press briefing has now been delayed, like lg to happen about 2:30 today. there are questions we're going to focus on. among them questions about a possible budget deal as well as our top story at this hour. the latest on rob porter, the former white house staff secretary. may depart as early as today. this after allegations of verbal and physical abuse surfaced from two ex-wives this week. not only is conduct that's under review but that of chief of staff john kelly. two sources familiar with the matter telling nbc news that while the president only learned about the