we are back and so is the clock. it's right here. it's because of congress. we are now five hours away from another potential government shutdown based on the standoff. i can report this hour the white house telling agencies to get ready for that. senator rand paul is the one now blocking a vote on a new spending bill to avoid a shutdown. members of both parties have been driving shutdown politics lately. "hardball" starts now. >> lots of trouble. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we're following major breaking news on multiple fronts tonight. the white house is scrambling to respond to its latest personnel crisis after chief of staff john kelly released two very different statements in the same day about a white house official accused of domestic violence by

two exwives. meanwhile, the news from wall street is grim. the dow jones plunged 1,000 points today down 10% from sits peak in just last month. and then there was what is beginning to feel like groundhog day here in washington. we're just five hours away from another government shutdown. we learned a short time ago that the white house has already advised government agencies to prepare for the possibility that the government will in fact shut down. at the moment, senator rand paul of kentucky is holding forth on a vote holding up a vote on a bipartisan budget deal. he's been speaking on the senate floor against the bill for just over an hour. there he is. the deal faces opposition from some on the left and right in the house. the bill adds up to a massive increase in domestic and defense spending, $300 billion for two years. it represents a major reversal for republicans, the party of fiscal responsibility and deficit hawks.

according 0 to their own 2016 party platform, does anybody read these things? they wrote, our national debt is a burden on our economy and families. a strong economy is one key to debt reduction but spending restraint is a necessary component na must be vigorously pursued. this happens to be the same party that took president obama to task for his spending. let's watch that. >> in this generation, a defining responsibility of government is to steer our nation clear of a debt crisis while there is still time. president obama has added more debt than any other president before him. and more than all the troubled governments of europe combined. >> i think the fair question to ask, the money we borrowed yesterday do we intend to pay it back. >> what's reckless, bob, is the $1.6 trillion deficit we're running this year. what's reckless is the $3 trillion we've added to our

national debt. our national debt is now the size of our economy. we begin to look a lot like greece. >> so what about that, bob? more i'm joined by charlie sykes author of "how the right lost its mind and a contributor eugene robin from "the washington post," also a contributor and erica werner, a reporter for the "washington post." erica, what is going on in terms of i know we've got rand paul, the true ideological conservative, the ayn rand devote ta trying to stop the water coming through right now, the big debt growth. what about the party itself? it seems it's forgotten the truths they told us when democrats were in office. >> that's right. as for senator paul, he, of course, voted for the $1.5 trillion tax bill not too long ago. but he would say that that's completely different the same

argument you would hear from a lot of republicans up here. but yes, it's been as your introwas indicating, it's been a complete turnaround for republicans. you could say that the tea party died this week. they've totally abandoned fiscal restraint. it's out the window and it's spend, spend, spend. >> let me go to charlie psychs. charlie, i think the word conservative used to mean conservative. it meant conservative in foreign policy and all that but that went out the window. it still meant if you're a republican, a little more tight wad than a democrat like my old boss tip o'neill, i once wrote a speech for him about deficit spending, he said that's not me. we're not using it. old liberals would admit they were spendthrifts. we're not going to waste your money, we're going to keep -- and the democrats will spend it away on their groups or whatever. now the republicans seem to have no religion at all based upon what's been going on with the

tax cuts and big spending deals on domestic and defense spending. > let's put it in perspective. this may be a two-year spending deal but it is going to add $1.7 trillion to the deficit over the next ten years. you add that to the minimum of $1 trillion they added to the deficit with the tax cuts and you have a conservative congress, members of congress who claimed that they were concerned about the massive intergenerational transfer of wealth and the national debt adding in the last seven weeks $2.7 trillion to the national debt and one of the key architects of this is paul ryan whose entire career was based on warning about a debt crisis and the need to get control of the deficit. you know, but this is the era of donald trump and the fiscal conservatives were routed in the been party the moment that the donald trump trump, the king of debt became the nominee.

now they've kind of rolled over and this is trump micks. >> why are they rolling over? gene sort of a progressive as a literaltician. i tell you, i don't understand paul ryan. serve tells me how great he is for years now. when is he going to be great? when is he going to be paul ryan that's been promised? >> yeah, well, stay tuned for that. i suppose their rationalizing it by saying look, the military has been badly hurt by the sequester and by the uncertainty of all of the crs. secretary mattis made a strong plea about the damage done to the military by not having a budget. that's a legitimate concern but there was a time when republicans, conservatives would have said okay, if we're going to fund the military, let's pay for it. that's out the door right now. donald trump does not really care about debt. as we've seen basically, we've outsourced people like paul ryan have outsourced their fiscal

policies to donald trump. >> well, gene, you've been watching hypotheticalcicy from the mountainside for years with. these guys get elected by telling people, especially older people, we will not spend your money and now when it comes to keeping the government open and keeping everybody happy, paying off all the groups, they're for big buck spending on defense and domestic just to keep the doors open. >> first of all, this did not start with the trump administration. if you look at recent def deficits down and republicans made them balloon. >> why? are they liars? >> everybody likes to spend money. >> i think that's true. >> the recent republican presidents have liked to spend money a whole lot. second thing is -- >> i think w's war cost a lot. >> the what's different now, republicans are talking almost like canecyians. they have develop this had belief in economic stimulus and doing it through a tax cut that

for people having this money they're going to spend on the economy is going to eventually increase tax revenues. that didn't used to be republican dogma at all but it seems to be now and i'd like to hear paul ryan explain. >> they're spending money too, not just cutting taxes. raj shaw was asked if the president was concerned how much the senate budget deal would cost. here's what he said. >> is the president concerned about all of this spending? and what exactly is your planing to pay for it. >> he is concerned about spending in washington. he's expressed that for years. >> well, that was a nonstatement. during the campaign -- i don't know what that means. during the campaign the president boasted about how proud he was to be a king of debt. in the private sector, how much debt he holds. let's watch. >> i'm the king of debt. i'm great with debt. nobody knows debt better than me. i've made a fortune by using

debt. if things don't work out, i renegotiate the debt. >> somebody else's money. the politics of this, just the way they're talking on the hill, one of the republican senators saying, when you ask them what happened to your fiscal responsibility? >> if you listen to what they say, they still are fiscal conservatives and deficit hawks and what they will say about this particular deal is that the military needs our real and legitimate, they claim, and that the only way to get that military spending is to go along with these domestic increases democrats are demanding from their minority in the senate but i think as you yourself were just saying is absolutely true which is that this is the party of trump. the groups like the club for growth, the heritage foundation that used to have some sway in this town no longer do. they're shouting into the wind. and republicans are rolling over to what president trump wants and regardless of that kind of

vague statement from the raj shah, he's the king of debt and seems to have no interest in cutting entitlements, entitlement reform is off the table. the president took it off the table. there's no end in sight to all the spending. > let me go back to charlie. i'm trying to divine the meaning of the word conservative. it used to be you spend less, you're less involved in foreign policy, the only taft model. we don't look for trouble around the world. it meant good prudish behavior in your private life. how many mulligans is this president going to get and how many fields of endeavor? he gets mulligans in his private life as we know, he gets mulligans for deficits, he gets mulligans for important policy dangerous behavior. where is the conservative in the conservative party led by this president? where is it? can you find any conservative aspect of this president? >> sure. if you look at the judges and maybe some of the regulatory roll back. the main point is that this is a party that's not governed by any

consistent principle anymore. this really is -- donald trump you know, has placed his seal on the party whether it's because they're afraid of him or because it's a cultive personality. who is to say? by the way, all of this spending, those numbers that i rolled out before the $2.7 trillion in additional debt that they've just layered on our children and our grandchildren, that's before the infrastructure, that's before the mexican wall. that's before donald trump'smy missile is yours parade. so we've just gotten started. >> you saved that for the -- you saved that for minutes, precious minutes. go ahead, charlie. >> but i mean you think about it, whatting is left of the tea party version of the republican party? you know, and i think there's going to have to be some debate about during the tea party with all of the complaints about the crushing debt and how we are

becoming greece under barack obama, was that is sincere or is everything just episodic? is it just tribal that you switch positions when you're in power because right now, all of that concern about the deficit seems so last president, doesn't it? >> if we keep losing a thousand points in the dow every day fur a couple weeks we have to worry about the connection between government spending and the price of money. they are ultimately connected. what you have to pay for money has something to do with how many people are trying to get money to borrow. that means the federal government. charlie sykes, thank you. erica werner thanks for the reporting. john kelly was supposed to keep the trains running in the trump administration. now he's embroiled in another controversy about defending an aide accused of domestic violence. the question is what did kelly know when he came to the staffer's defense. plus, eric holder says based on public evidence alone, robert mueller has an obstruction of

justice case against this president. is that why we're seeing such a smoke screen from trump and his republican allies? it seems like the closer the special counsel gets to bringing charges, the more ferocious the pushback and the distraction from trump world. and who cops out on top after the latest deal in washington? will either side pay the price for not being able to deliver on daca? finally, let me finish tonight with trump watch. he's definitely not going to like there one. this is "hardball" where the action is. ing innovation. you see it in the southern tier with companies that are developing powerful batteries that make everything from cell phones to rail cars more efficient. which helps improve every aspect of advanced rail technology. all with support from a highly-educated workforce and vocational job training. across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov.

on thousands of hotels, cars and things to do. like the papaya playa project for 49% off. everything you need to go. expedia. >> welcome back to "hardball." more drama on wall street today as the dow jones plunged more than a 1,000 points. down 10% from the record high two weeks ago. let's bring in ali velshi for more on what happened today. what happened and why, sir, the big why is the big one. >> it's well overdue. we needed to have a pullback on

this market. here's the simple explanation. when the economy gets better, wages go up. interest rates start to go up. when interest rates go up, you sit there with your money in the stock market ar you're getting a good return but it's risky. you say i can put it into bonds or a bank account which is now giving me more than 1% or 2%. people slowly start to shift their money from stocks to bonds. that's a normal part of the economy. the problem here is it's happened very quickly. bond rates have gone up. that's interest rates have gone up very quickly. people have taken their money out of the stock market putting it into the bond market and that's causing an the selloff in the bond market. interest rates will only go up a certain amount. this is a long overdue settling of this upward trend in the market over a long time. that's wa we're facing. > with the federal government out there borrowing more money because it's cutting taxes and spending more, does that is drive interest rates up the fact the government has to pay more

for money. >> yeah, a bunch of other forces some of which push interest rates down it depends on how strong the dollar is and that's one of the issues. there's global coordinated growth. central banks around the world are all thinking of tightening monetary policy which means increasing interest rates which means there's nowhere for the extra money to flow. as a result people are taking their money out of stock markets. it's like you can go to england or canada or australia with it. again, there's nothing to do with panic in this market. there's no underlying economic problem that's coming our way. it is simply that stocks may have been overpriced and other options now exist. >> you remind me of walter cronkite in the old days, the calming influence of ali velshi. >> is that is the best compliment i've ever had. >> up next what happened to chief of staff john kelly being stabilizing force in the white house? there's another controversy in the west wing this time involving a top staffer accuse fds domestic violence that was

on his record. the question, what did john kelly know and when. you're watching "hardball." this is frank's favorite record. this is frank's dog. and this is frank's record shop. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff that's part of running a business. so frank can focus on the beat. you hear that? this is frank's record shop. and this is where life meets legal.

welcome back to "hardball." chief of staff john kelly was hired, of course, to keep chaos out of the trump white house. yet once again today, he's found himself grappling with a west wing controversy. it follows the resignation of staff secretary rob porter just yesterday after allegations of violent behavior by porter from two of his ex-wives. the claims were first reported by the "daily mail." in a statement, porter said these outrageous allegations are simply false. since then both women confirmed their allegations to nbc news. porter's second wife jennifer willoughby spoke to nbc news today. >> during the fbi background interview for security clearance, i shared with the fbi all the details that i have shared in previous articles

including access to protective order from june of 2010 and police calls that i had made to our home. >> so you told the fbi that rob porter was abusive towards you? >> yes. >> and one of the questions was, copotentially be blackmailed. how did you answer that question? >> i actually had difficulty answering that question because i believe that the people who had the power to blackmail him would be women who had been in personal relationships with him. so in short, the answer could be maybe. >> well, the fbi was aware of the allegations against porter and he was never given permanent security clearance at the white house. white house deputy press secretary raj shah offered this explanation today. >> the allegations made against rob porter as we understand them involve incidents long before he joined the white house. therefore, they are best evaluated through the background check process. the truth must be determined. and that was what was going on

with rob porter. his background investigation was ongoing. he was operating on an interim security clearance. his clearance was never denied and he resigned. >> the sloppy handling of porter's clearance and his high profile exit yesterday are casting doubt on kelly's stewardship of the white house. on tuesday he defended porter calling him a man of true integrity and honor and i can't say enough good things about him. just 24 hours later, he changed his tune saying in his statement i was shocked by the new allegations released today against porter. at the white house today, raj shah tried to defend kelly's shifting stance sfloo there's been reports about the chief of staff. he became fully aware about these allegations yesterday. >> what changed yesterday absent a photograph in terms of new allegations? >> well, i think what i just referenced, the reports hts additional allegations, they had more information. >> so you're saying the initial reports where are two former wives accused him of violence

both physical and verbal abuse was not sufficient for him to say that he's a man of honor? >> there were a number of statements from the press secretary from the chief of staff, from others that reflected the rob porter that you know, we've come to know working here for over a year. the reports are troubling. i think the statement from wednesday night reflects the rob porter that we had seen in these news reports and some of the credible allegations. >> to be clear, what was so shocking that had changed? you said it was shocking. what was he referring to. >> the full nature of the allegation, particularly images. >> for more i'm joined by susan page from "usa today" and the "washington post" white house bureau chief phil rucker. susan, tell us about this and how this relates to trump and the way this white house is being run or not run properly? >> we know that general kelly was brought in to impose some order. he wasn't hired because had he great policy chops or great political instincts. this was a disorderly white house, it was dysfunctional. the idea was he would make things work.

one of the things you would think he would be paying attention to is the fact that one of the most senior aides and one of the most sensitive positions would not be able to get for whatever reason unable to get permanent security clearance. surely that's something that would have come to his attention. we're now told he has known perhaps for months these allegations existed but failed to take them serious lis until the photograph came out of the ex-wife with the black eye. >> a full field investigation by the fbi is the norm and a requirement to get a job even in the peace corps. to become a volunteer. they go around to old neighbors and ask you every single place you live your whole life. they go to neighbors you never talked to them and talk to them about you. they go to your parents' friends to get a job at the white house. i went through the same thing. the fact there was this problem and it had something to do with violence, i would think that would be at least a yellow flag if not a red one. your thoughts. >> it should have been a giant red flag. what we don't have from the

white house at this hour is a true accounting what happened. we don't know what the fbi told the white house what, john kelly knew, what the white house counsel knew and why they decided not to act on this information until frankly, chris, it surfaced in the news media in those reports in the "daily mail." there's one important thing to keep in mind how john kelly as chief of staff has managed the situation. yesterday when that photo first came out according to the reporting. > the black eye on his ex-wife. >> the photo, chief of staff john kelly actually continued to stand by rob porter, continued to want him to stay in the job. it was not till well after porter announced he was resigning and this blew into a big media firestorm that kelly put out a statement condemn dg domestic violencence. >> rob porter had a big job. >> this is one of the most crucial jobs in the white house. this is the job that the person who determines what paper flow there is to the president. you see the biggest secrets the president sees and you have a

lot of -- it's incredibly powerful position. if you were going to blackmail somebody in the white house, this would be a great person because he has access to everything the president will read. >> joe biden told andrea mitchell this latest episode raises questions how this white house functions. let's watch the former vice president. >> how do you explain his access to the president of the united states and the chief of staff, frankly, in the last 24 hours describing hip as a plan of personal integrity. >> i can't explain it. i was briefed when the president found out about it he said go. if that's the case that the president never knew about it, good for the president. >> how could the president not know one of his closest advisers did not have a top security clearance? what does that say about the president and this white house? >> oh, andrea, look, i'm having an enormous difficulty understanding how this white

house functions. phil rucker, i'll get susan with the same question, does this reflect the conflict between this white house politically and the fbi? that they wouldn't trust the fbi implicitly when they got the danger signs that most white houses would say whoa, let's stop right here and get to the bottom of this. call the fbi, find out what the facts are and act. they wouldn't sit and pussy foot and wait manatz for this thing going on. apparently this went on for weeks. >> it may be. what the fbi uncovered in that background check regarding the doe pless tick violence was in complete conflict with the sort of image and reputation that rob porter had within the white house. i think the aides in the white house were more willing to trust what they -- the guy working with them than to trust these women which is in keeping by the way with the culture of trump's campaign and of his white house. remember all the accusations against donald trump of harassment and assault and the line out of the white house was

these women are not to be believed. >> that's the whole thing with domestic violence. these women marry guys with this problem, this affliction this evil and they don't think they will have this and then they do have it. then they marry somebody else who doesn't know it and somebody hires them at the white house who doesn't know it. they don't walk around looking like beaters. >> they knchose not to believe e women making accusations. it's possible these women might not have felt empowered to come forward with their names, with their evidence if not for the me tools movement. this is one more repercussion. >> i think the fbi was doing its job. they asked the right questions and got the right answers. this administration didn't act on the right answers. thank you so much susan page, thank you phil rucker. up next the closer special counsel mueller gets to bringing a case against trump, have you noticed the louder the protests

and the distractions from the president and his pals. if trump is innocent as he says, why isn't he acting that way? have you noticed? this is "hardball" where the action is. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you're pregnant or planning to be.

♪ otezla. show more of you.

it's ok that everyone ignores it's fine. drive. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom!

right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia

thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. it's an excuse by democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump in may telling lester holt that the russia thing was a factor in his decision to fire former fbi director james comey. it's one of many pieces of evidence that federal prosecutors could use to build a case that the president obstructed justice in his handling of the russia probe. now former attorney general eric holder says that based on the public evidence alone, special counsel robert mueller already has enough for an obstruction case. >> if one looks at the dismissal of james comey and the reasons why the president told lester holt he did that, if you look at the president's attempts to try to get people who were the heads of the intelligence agencies to get involved in this matter, if you look at the president's actions on the airplane with regard to that statement, there are a variety of other things, i think you technically have a case of obstruction of justice.

i'm not not saying this is a case you would necessarily bring at this point. i don't know what other evidence the special counsel has but just on the basis of what has been reported in the media and assuming that those reports are accurate, i do think that you have a technical case of obstruction of justice. >> yet, it appears as mueller gets closer to makinging that case, the fiercer trump and his defenders become in trying to mudthe facts. in the last week alone, the president tweeted about the specious nunes memo, the efforts totes discredit the steele dossier and the text messages between fbi officials all to support his claim that the russia probe is a witch hunt. as a nicholas kristof writes today in the times," frankly it's suspicious that trump is throwing up so much dust and trying so hard to legitimize the investigation. he is not acting innocent. joining me now is neil cateo now professor at george down law school. he wrote the regulations that

guide the office of special counsel. how do you see this from two sides, watching these two sides of mueller moving along, grinding along quietly, not doing neg press and then you see the president and his people coming up with all these memos and midnight rides, anything to confuse the game? >> you're absolutely right. every time that mueller or the other people on his team find something out, the president throws up some sort of chaff or dust and says look over here, look over there or something like that. at this point, donald trump is not acting like the president. he's acting like o.j. i mean, we defense lawyers know that when you have a client who is guilty, you've got one good card to play and that is attack law enforcement. attack the prosecutor. call them biased. that's what the president's strategy has been. it's a lot worse here than what the ordinary private citizen than o.j., o.j. is a private citizen, no duties to law enforcement or anything. but the president is, of course, oath bound to stand up for law

enforcement. the other thing is that. >> just to be fair about that, the metaphor there, johnny cochran knew the lapd had a bad reputation especially in the black community for unfairness. he played into a reality. it wasn't like he created in this image of the lapd. they had it. >> absolutely. 100%, chris. that's what makes this worse. the fbi is the pride of the world in terms of law enforcement. and the president should be like every other president, standing up for the law enforcement and for the justice system and saying look, i'll cooperate. i trust you. we have the american justice system which is the envy of the world. instead this president goes and attacks them in a way no president has done. it's a lot worse than a private citizen. remember all the weapons donald trump has at its disposal. he's already fired the chief investigator jim comey. he's got an army of taxpayer funded lawyers to defend him unlike private citizens and of course, he's got his own guy, rod rosenstein supervising his

investigation, the investigation of him. so that's unlike any private citizen and the idea that he then goes and denigrates law enforcement, boy, that is just a horrible thing. >> give us a sense of the next year. we know that the congress is in doubt. the house could guess democrat this november which means the democrats on the hill would have the power of subpoena, they would have the power to launch hearings and markup and actually vote on articles of impeachment. all that will happen if they get the majority on the house side come this november. then the question is what will likely be the procedure. what do you expect bob mueller to do if he has a case? what will he do with his case, obstruction, money laundering or collusion or all three. >> mueller is the consummate professional. he's operated quietly building the case, looking as the all the evidence trying to figure it out. they have a couple options available to him. he can try and seek an indictment of the president which would require the approval of rod rosenstein, trump's guy or he could write a report

saying i'm not going to indict but i think crimes were committed or he could clear the president. now, if he writes that report saying crimes were committed but i'm no going to indict, i think you're right. that would trigger impeachment proceedings in the house. you know, at this point, the president has, since he has been acting very much like o.j., i think we do have reason to be suspicious that the president could survive such an impeachment proceeding. > let's talk about that because it looks to me there are a lot of progressive members, some minority members of the black caucus very hot on this president, they don't like him. think he's been unconstitutional in his very being sometimes. you've got jerry nadler, a westside new york liberal progressive who is going to be chairman of the house judiciary committee. he's a constitutional lawyer. he knows what he's talking about. it does seem to me the system is ripe for action if this special counsel comes through with basically a charge that this guy broke the law. >> right, chairman nadler is i

think a consummate professional, as well. he's not going to seek an impeachment of the president because he didn't like him or something like that. he'll do it based on the constitutional standard, a high crime or misdemeanor. you're absolutely right. if mueller finds a crime has been committed like obstruction of justice, of course it has to trigger impeachment proceedings. that is after all, what our founding principle is, the rule of law. >> thank you. great to have an expert on like you. please come back again. up next, the roundtable is here with a look at winners and losers of the latest negotiation in washington. will either side pay a political price for failing to deliver a deal for the dreamers? you're watching "hardball." us. and with ancestrydna on sale for just $69, now is the time to discover yours. you can find out where you get... ...your precision... ...your grace... ...your drive. and now, with more than 150 ethnic regions to connect to,

only ancestrydna can put your greatness on full display. save 30% now at ancestrydna.com. on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. does your bed do that? right now, our queen c2 mattress is only $699, save $200. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you.

we have one to two fires a day and when you respond together and you put your lives on the line, you do have to surround yourself with experts. and for us the expert in gas and electric is pg&e. we run about 2,500/2,800 fire calls a year and on almost every one of those calls pg&e is responding to that call as well.

and so when we show up to a fire and pg&e shows up with us it makes a tremendous team during a moment of crisis. i rely on them, the firefighters in this department rely on them, and so we have to practice safety everyday. utilizing pg&e's talent and expertise in that area trains our firefighters on the gas or electric aspect of a fire and when we have an emergency situation we are going to be much more skilled and prepared to mitigate that emergency for all concerned. the things we do every single day that puts ourselves in harm's way, and to have a partner that is so skilled at what they do is indispensable, and i couldn't ask for a better partner. the madness. if we have to lose some sleep, we're going to end the madness. the bottom line since 2011, all hell has broke loose. we've been standing around here

looking at each other. instead of listening to our commanders. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was lindsey graham from south carolina just this hour right now responding to his colleague rand paul who is blocking a vote on a bipartisan spending bill. the government will the shutdown at midnight tonight if they don't get the vote by then. our "hardball" roundtable, sahil ca pure from bloomberg politics, donna edwards former democratic congressman from maryland and jennifer rubens an opinion writer from "the washington post" and analyst. we're going to talk about this interesting confluence of politics. the cause of the dreamers these people brought here by their parents don't have documentation but feel american. everybody thinks even conservative people seem to think give them a break. they're not going to get a break. how come their cause was lost by schumer and rest of them. >> because republicans don't want to link these things. >> democrats said they wanted to. >> democrats said they wanted to and backed off of that. the senate democrats caved because they got a promise from

mcconnell to have a vote. deebs. >> durbin believes in it. >> they're willing to roll the dice. they thought this is the best they can get. nancy pelosi doesn't want to move till she gets a similar promise. >> she released all her votes to vote for this thing tonight. >> it's plausible some of them will vote for this. enough democrats will vote for this to get it passed. a lot of them like what's in the bill and a lot of them don't have a lot of daca recipients in their district. >> donna, nancy pelosi put on a already good demonstration. i think a lot of politics is theater. a lot of it is showing you're young. you can talk for eight hours without stopping or going to the bathroom. it was pretty draupt quick. she looked powerful doing it. was that enough for the people on the progressive side where you are in the party to say she couldn't guarantee a deal for the daca people in house but at least showed her passion? >> i think it was important for

her to say this is where our values are. she was speaking for the caucus even though there are members that are now released and will vote for that budget. on daka, she was speaking about the value center of the democratic party. i think that was important so we could draw that you line and that the public can really see there is a distinction between where we are as democrats and where apparently the republican conference is in the house. >> i noticed something, one of our producers dug this fact up the other day. the democratses had an advantage in the generic poll. everybody, all the polls basically coming into this year said they're going to win by double digits and carry the house. it's going to happen. during the government shutdown between the 16th of january and the 20th a few weeks ago, something happened. that double digit advantage in the generic number came down to about a half dozen. really close to maybe not winning it. that may have been the message that schumer and pelosi got it.

you can't win by shutting the government down if you're a democrat. >> i think they made a decision rather than repeat this over and over again, they were going to do a different tactic. they were going to do their best to get it through the senate. actually they may. i think at this point, mcconnell is telling the truth. he's going to put an empty bill. i've got to think there's 60 votes for reasonable compromise. >> with the offsetting pain. >> maybe not even the wall. >> no, stop, there's going to be tough stuff in there about legal immigration. >> i don't think so. >> you don't think they're going to -- >> once it gets out of the senate, then the pressure is on paul ryan. >> you're an optimist. >> pelosi was doing last night trying to focus everybody's attention, his fault. the senate has gone along. we're this close away and paul ryan, this is your moment. >> ryan says he'll do what will pass the president. he'll do a bill that the president will sign.

>> no one knows including the president what he's going to sign. >> paul ryan is the speaker of the house. >> president trump wants cuts to family based legal immigration which will not pass the senate. >> president trump doesn't care about policy. >> the greatest deliberative body. >> i don't understand the speaker's optimism and reassurances about the dreamers will be fine. i don't see how that stacks up to reality where republicans have opposed anything to do with -- >> we had a good bill five years ago. they wouldn't vote on it. president trump said earlier this week a shutdown would be worth it. if he doesn't get what he wants on immigration. watch. he wants the shutdown, according to this. >> if we don't change the legislation, if we don't get rid of these loopholes where killers are allowed to come into our country and continue to kill, if we don't change it, let's have a shutdown. we'll do a shutdown. it's worth it for our country. i'd love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care

of. >> tonight, the president tweeted it's time to end the visa lottery. congress must secure the immigration system and protect americans. his identification of immigrants with killers. i don't think anybody's done this before. >> in the state of the union. >> i never heard any politician do this before. >> it was the core of his emotional argument on immigration was the core of his argument through the campaign, helped him win the republican primary equating immigrants legal and illegal to ms-13 and gangs and criminals. that is the idea the way to reach out to the other side which is where again, i think. >> it's now the exactly lazarus, is it. >> this is where things get jammed up in the house. the president is determined to get legal immigration cuts that he's talking about a government shutdown. >> bottom line before we go to the, tell me something, all three of you, do you think we'll get something to help out these people who came here because their parents brought them here?

i think trump wants it off at some point. >> it will get through the senate, not the house. they'll come up with a grand compromise to punt for two or three years. >> you mean let them alone for two years. what about the democrats winning the house next year? does that help. >> i think they will win the house. i see the senate may be a tossup at this point. the question is, can they do it again and pass daca. >> then they would have to pass it again in the senate before they got to the house. >> then the question is -- >> do you think we'll get something? >> i sigh' different path. i do think on daca if something gets to the senate, the amount of pressure that puts on republicans especially ones in vulnerable districts to move this forward could actually make paul ryan put that on the table. >> optimism. >> i don't think it gets through either chamber at this point unless democrats win back the house. >> minutes ago i thought you were optimistic. roundtable is sticking with us.

up next, they'll tell me something i don't know. we'll be right back. there's a vacation at the end of every week. whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com

what can a president [ do in thirty seconds? he can fire an fbi director who won't pledge his loyalty. he can order the deportation of a million immigrant children. he can threaten an unstable dictator armed with nuclear weapons. he can go into a rage and enter the nuclear launch codes. how bad does it have to get before congress does something? hundreds of thousands much eagles fanses intoed the streets of philadelphia today for the city's first ever super bowl parade. fans stood 20 people deep in some spots, just to catch a glimpse of the hometown champs and their new vince lombardi trophy. i got to hold that trophy the other night with our executive producer. there we are holding on to that.

we did. the parade wove nearly five miles through the streets before the players hoisted the trophy at the city's famed rocky steps up there on the art museum. yet another reminder that the long-time underdogs are underdogs no more. fly, eagles fly or as we say in philly, going eagles. we'll be right back. ng eagles. we'll be right back. g eagles. we'll be right back. eagles. we'll be right back.

we're back with our "hardball" roundtable. a quick update where we stand on the shutdown. senator rand paul of kentucky said he's not giving in on opposition to the spending bill meaning there will not be a vote before the deadline. that means the government will shut down for at least a few hours, many more than that. tell me something i don't know. >> behind paul's fiery speech is a staggering fact in the post jimmy carter world, the deficit has risen under every republican president and fallen under every democratic president.

bill clinton eliminated the deficit. now that trend looks to continue under trump with a $1.5 trillion tax cut. now if the bill he passes is passed -- >> if you want to live like a republican vote like a democrat. >> port the wife beater used to be chief of staff for orrin hatch, the author of the violence against women act. >> you did your homework. >> two positions among the many not filled by this white house, first of all, the director of office of violence against women in the justice department. secondly, the white house adviser on violence against women. this is a white house that couldn't care less about this issue and we've seen again this week. >> thank you. hypotheticalcicy reins supreme. sahil, donna edwards, jennifer ruben. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." -if you told me a year ago where i'd be right now...

aah! ...i would have said you were crazy. but so began the year of me. i discovered the true meaning of paperless discounts... and the indescribable rush of saving drivers an average of $620. why does fear feel so good? i fell in love three times -- once with a woman, once with a country, and finally... with myself. -so, do you have anything to declare or not? -isn't that what i'm doing? -so, do you have anything to declare or not? looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino!

find a price that fits. tripadvisor. they appear out of nowhere. my secret visitors. hallucinations and delusions. the unknown parts of living with parkinson's. what plots they unfold, but only in my mind. over 50% of people with parkinson's will experience hallucinations or delusions during the course of their disease. if your loved one is experiencing these symptoms, talk to your parkinson's specialist. there are treatment options that can help. my visitors should be the ones i want to see.

tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

trump watch thursday february 8th, 2018. some thing's happen together republican party. it stopped being the republican party. as long as i've been following politics, there's been one distinctive republican trait. it was the near religious contempt for deficit spending. the government republicans sermonize should not spend money it didn't have. guess what's happening under donald trump. first the republican controlled congress passed a trillion and a half dollar tax cut. right now it's in the act of spending a huge spending hike. the effect of all this will be

to run up trillion dollar plus deficits flow the future there be ballooning the national debt. this growth in debt is not because of uncontrolled economic forces like unemployment or inflation but directly because of the decisions of president trump and his forces in the congress. and here's the problem. for generations this government has kept in reasonable control because of the rivalry of the two parties. democrats that push for programs that now make up the social safety net, social security, medicare, medicaid. republicans pushed back on such spending to keep the government in balance so we don't wallow in inflation and related chaos. but what happens when the republicans stop being republicans and agree to spend all kinds of money on domestic and defense spending in order to keep the government running? the answer is, we will soon find out. perhaps we're finding out already. in a stock market that's dropping a thousand points a day. you can only borrow so much before people begin to wonder if you will pay it back.

you can only run up so much debt before people demand higher risk payments for the risk of watching you do it. that's "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> did he know any of this back in november. >> again, i'm not going to get into the specs. >> a full-blown white house scandal. >> i think it's fair to say that you know, we all could have done better. >> the white house caught in multiple serious lies about the handling of abuse allegations against a top staffer. >> you said it was shocking. what was he referring to. >> the full nature of the allegation, particularly images. >> tonight the calls for chief of staff john kelly to resign and the major questions over national security gaps inside the trump white house. then, the republican tea party myth exposed by the senate spending bill and luiz gutierrez on what it means for daca. and as omarosa tells all in a return to reality