that's a wrap of this hour of msnbc live. right now it's time for "am joy" with my good friend, joy reid. >> we're going to use our best people. >> we'll get the best people. >> we'll be using our best people. >> we have to get the best people. we can no longer be so politically correct. we do things today. we're so politically correct. people are afraid to walk, afraid to trucalk, they can't speak. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy."

this week, we learned more about the best people donald trump hired to staff his administration. starting with his former staff secretary, rob porter. both his ex-wives have accused porter of years of domestic violence and abuse. that was not news to some senior members of the administration. white house counsel down mcgahn knew of the accusations back in january of 2017. trump's chief of staff, john kelly, learned of the allegations this past fall when he found out that the fbi was delaying porter's security clearance. yet porter stayed on as kelly's right hand man, designated to see classified material, despite reports that porter was one of 30 officials working without full security clearance. that list including jared kushner. when the allegations against porter were first made public

tuesday night, john kelly defended porter as a man of true integrity and honor. he reversed course the following day after porter first wife, colbie holderness, released this photo showing a black eye she says was from an attack by porter. in a statement kelly claimed to have asked for porter's resignation amidst new allegations. facing a backlash over an appearance of protecting porter, kelly presented another version of events on friday. >> can you clarify to us exactly -- there's been a lot of reporting about the timeline an when you found out about things. can you just clarify that? >> tuesday night. >> tuesday night? >> that the accusations were true. 40 minutes later he was gone. >> you had some indication, right? last year about the nature? >> no. in november i got an update on some of the investigations. and the update was that there were some things that needed to be looked into. literally, that was it.

>> as the porter scandal consumed the administration, yet another official left amid abuse allegations. david sorensen, a speech writer working for steven miller, is accused by his ex-wife of physical abuse that includes running a car over her foot. sorensen denies the allegations but resigned nonetheless. how is it an administration could retain so many people accused of violence against women? look no further than the reaction of the man at the top, who, when given the opportunity to condemn domestic violence, instead says this about rob porter. >> he did a very good job when he was in the white house. we lohope he has a wonderful career. hopefully he will have a great career ahead of him. but it was very sad when we heard about it. certainly he's also very sad. now, he also, as you probably know, he says he's innocent. i think you have to remember

that. he said strongly yesterday that he's innocent. >> joining me now, maria hinojo hinojosa, noelle nikpour, karine jean-pierre, and charles pierce. noelle, i will give you all the snaps you have given me your entire life with that black pan th ther outfit. how did you react to this week's events? first you have rob porter accused by two former wives of domestic violence. john kelly protecting him, then trying to cover his behind. you have the white house counsel, don mcgahn who knew about it, then this, the rose gallery of accused abusers inside the trump administration. starting with donald trump,

something like 19 accusers. his former wife, ivana at one point accused him of abuse, though she did take it back at a deposition. steve bannon accused of domestic violence. rob porter, andrew puzder. as a republican woman what is your response to that? >> the reason you guys have me on as a guest is because i will defend gop policy. i will defend the issues on the platform that we stand on. not domestic abuse. not sexual predators, not someone battering women. i will not defend that. i don't care what party they are, what affiliation, this was wrong. >> the question becomes whether your party will defend you, you defend them on policy, but this is a party that defended roy moore to the hilt.

at what point do republican women say we're in a party hostile to our gender? >> if you frame it that way, it's awful. the problem of it is this, i think that, you know, kelly, he's denied the allegation he said he was going to step down, but kelly even said -- supposedly -- that this was wrong. they knew some facts. i think that was holding up his clearance. if you want to look at this technically why was someone allowed to go and handle information and work for the white house that has not been cleared? >> correct. >> that's the biggest problem of all. i'm not saying domestic abuse wasn't the problem, but if you have any allegation, whether domestic abuse, something you did financially, anything that you did that prohibits you from getting full 100% clearance to be able to be handling documents and seeing what's going on inside the white house, you should not be allowed to -- to do your job or set foot in there unless you have 100% clearance.

>> the way it happens, maria the chief of staff, who is -- this is his right ha-handyman man, s clearly he knew he was working with classified material. it happens because the chief of staff lets it happen and the white house counsel lets it happen and the president lets it happen. >> sadly we're seeing that play out in front of us. there's not a veil here, we're seeing what general kelly has said. a lot of people are upset about this. you and i were speaking about the fact that a lot of people were raising flags about general kelly for a long time. >> mm-hmm. around issues he said around mexicans, around deportation, around immigrants and dreamers. so we are seeing this in front of our face. you know what? there's something else that is going on. i wonder whether you have felt this we have a visual for what the rob porter scenario might look like with his wives.

if the allegations are to be believed. many of us watched "big little lies" on hbo, a series created by women, put together by women, executive produced by women, nicole kidman, reese witherspoon. it was there where we saw what this kind of violence in white america, wealthy white america can look like. i have not been able to get those images out of my mind of what his wives were feeling in those moments. by the way, joy, that picture that you showed of one of rob porter's wives, it's one of the few times we're seeing it. >> yeah. >> we're not seeing that photograph -- i keep saying why are people not putting up that photograph and talking about the fact that -- i have great respect for peoples spirituality and religion. it is reported that rob porter is a mormon. i have great respect for all religions.

this is not what you do if you are a respectful religious man. >> but the mormon bishop did not even -- they sought -- they said for them to seek counselling. they did not encourage that woman, one of the wives, to proceed with divorce. you remember that? you can look at some of the people within the mormon religion -- i'm not trying to attack religion. why didn't they help? >> all the men around this women were unhelpful. orrin hatch saying i'm not sure i believe it. the senior senator from utah. i know he's a united states senator, fourth in line for power to the white house. karine, you worked in a white house, a presidential administration. can you imagine in the obama administration a situation where somebody, "a," somebody with no security clearance is handling classified information, and this situation, hope hicks, apparently close with donald trump. she worked for donald trump

before the administration, apparently is dating rob porter. then is made to or involved in crafting his talking points to get him out of this situation. can you imagine a similar situation in the obama white house? >> absolutely not. if this happened in an obama white house, hillary clinton white house, it would be done and over, there would be hearings of impeachment from day one. it would not stop. so there is the hypocrisy of the republicans that you see constantly because they're not paying -- doing their jobs. there's supposed to be a check and balance on this president. there's supposed to be an independent co-equal branch of government but they set back and they're completely complicit in all of this. but it's not surprising. this is donald trump who encourages this type of behavior, endorses this type of behavior, promotes this type of behavior. this is the same man -- let's not forget the access hollywood

tape where he basically says this is how he treats women. he abusing them. when you're famous, you can grab them by the "p." this is the type of person we have in charge of the republican party. >> let's go to donald trump from way back. as far back as 1994. donald trump told an interviewer i tell friends who treat their wives magnificently, get treated like crap in return, be rougher and you'll see a different relationship. unfortunately with people in general, you get more with vinegar than honey. that's him in 1994. charlie, let's talk about john kelly. as maria said, people of color have been warning about john kelly since he called a united states congresswoman an empty barrel, lied about her, all sorts of comments about women needing to be sacred, attacked dreamers, saying they were lazy. people were too lazy to sign up for dhaacdaca. so he's been problematic, and

even problematic earlier than that. john kelly served as a character witness for a colonel charged with misconduct with female subordinates. this is a man later wound up guilty of offenses against a child. john kelly has been willing to be a character witness for such men in the past. how is he still getting the benefit of so much doubt? >> i don't know. i think his armor is fairly tarnished at this point. i don't think he's come to grips with the fact that everybody in the world is not in the marine corps. he can't give orders and things happen. he's created now -- you ran it down quite admirably, he created a white house that's not dysfunctional, it's anti-functional. i don't think anyone is in

charge. i don't think anyone -- it occurred to anyone in that place, look, having hope hicks draft the defense of her boyfriend against charges that he abused both of his wives is a bad idea. i don't think anyone was there to say it was a bad idea. i think both on a human level and on a -- what he's supposed to be doing in his day job, john kelly is a failure. >> don mcgahn as well. the "washington post" reporting that in january 2017, the white house counsel, learned of the allegations of abuse he wanted port to porter to stay put because he saw him as a steadying voice in the white house. his view did not change in june, nor in september when he learned of domestic violence claims delaying porter's security claims, or in november when porter's former girlfriend contacted him about the allegations. i believe porter used to work

for orrin hatch. the red flags were there. it's not as if these women were not telling. the bottom line >> the bottom line is he did not have white house clearance and he should not have been able to continue his work or start his work. >> who makes that call? >> you would think it would be john kelly? >> is it the president? >> it doesn't matter. even in corporate america, not just the white house, if you don't have all your dots dotted and your ts crossed, you cannot enter into the building. you have to have a security deal to work for nbc. >> can you believe kelly would just say -- >> let him go. there's some issues. >> the thing about john kelly, he's embraced trumpism. he's completely embraced trumpism. >> he believes in it. i don't think he had to embrace it, i think he already believed in it. >> john pierce, should john kelly be fired or resign?

>> yesterday. as you pointed out, he's had problems in a number of different areas ever since he was put in charge of homeland security. let's not forget that when everything kicked off with the anti-immigrant ethic in this administration, he was at the forefront of that. i don't think he's done good service to his president or to his country. >> the question is who would want the job of replacing him in this white house. they have not had an easy time hiring "a" list people. >> or "d" list. >> thank you very much. up next, the latest thing donald trump won't release. stay with us. if you're 65 or older, you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia that can take you out of the game for weeks, even if you're healthy. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that in severe cases can lead to hospitalization.

it may hit quickly, without warning, causing you to miss out on the things you enjoy most. prevnar 13® is not a treatment for pneumococcal pneumonia... it's a vaccine you can get to help protect against it. prevnar 13® is approved for adults to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. you should not receive prevnar 13® if you have had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. if you have a weakened immune system, you may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, limited arm movement, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, joint pain, less appetite, vomiting, fever, chills, and rash. help protect yourself against pneumococcal pneumonia. ask your doctor or pharmacist about prevnar 13®. this new day. looks nothing like yesterday. roads nowhere to be found. and it's exactly what you're looking for.

you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon.

ayou know what's not awesome? gig-speed internet. when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids, and these guys, him, ah. oh hello. that lady, these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party.

did we catch them in the act or what? oh, did we catch them in the act. they are very embarrassed. they never thought they were going to get caught. we caught 'em. hey, we caught 'em. so much fun. like the great sleuth. wow, earlier this week donald, the great sleuth trump, touted a memo written by republicans on the house intelligence committee, a memo that trump said totally vindicated him, but turned out to be empty. now dome democrats have a rebu

memo that accurately portrays how the fbi went about getting a surveillance warrant. trump's reaction is the same, right? not so much. late yesterday trump refused to declassify the democratic memo. it will not be published as it is now. though the white house did offer democrats the opportunity to have it redacted by the justice department. joining me now are paul butler and nick akerman, and frank figliuzzi. frank, i'll go to you first. i don't think many people are surprised this memo was withheld. the white house has always used two different standards to talk about these two, the majority report and the minority report from the house intel committee. i want to give an example of the way they've been framing it. this is john kelly earlier this week setting up what we're seeing as their refuse tal to release the minority report and why. >> no, i would say -- this is a

different memo than the first one. it's lengthier. it's different. so not leaning towards it. it will be done in a responsible way. but, again, the first one was clean, relative to sources, methods, my initial cut is this one is a lot less clean. >> of course they are already setting it up as not clean. and here is donald trump this morning. the democrats sent a very political and long response memo which they knew because of sources and methods and more would have to be heavily redacted whereupon they would blame the white house for lack of transparency. told them to redo and send back in proper form. long being ten pages. ten pages long. they were never going to release this democratic memo, right? >> the president had no qualms releasing the nunes memo after his own department of justice and fbi said it would be

reckless to do so. he had no qualms providing the russians with classified intelligent provided to us from israel. he no qualms allowing porter, his staff secretary, to remain in place and lahandle classifie information with only an interim clearance, but suddenly when facts are presented by the democrats in a cohesive ten-page set of facts, he has a problem. so there's gamesmanship going on here. i'm interested to see if he continues to decline the release, if he's going to jam up the democrats and cause them to have to release it outside of process and then call them the bad guys. >> right. maybe cause it to be leaked, then start a leak investigation, right? >> and the democrats become the ones who are leaking information. that would be the height of irony here. >> the other thing -- expectation was that either it would not come out at all or come out all blacked out. they would essentially take anything out. this is not about trying to find the facts about how that fisa

warrant happened. this is all about political theater to try to get donald trump's base to exonerate him no matter what mueller says. i want to read a bit of the hearings. they finally published it yesterday. took it two days longer than it did with the transcripts of the memos last week. this is wjoaquin castro and devn nunes going back and forth. if we can make sure it's the right castro because there's twins. going back and forth on whether or not the white house was involved in writing the republican memo. castro says nobody can answer the simple question of whether there's been coordination with the white house. the chairman would be the appropriate person to answer that question. it's nowhere near the chairmanship. this is ms. turner a congresswoman named turner. exmr. ca the chairman will not entertain political theater on behalf of

the committee. later on he finally says there's no involvement in drafting the memo with the white house. it's clear there is involvement, right? >> yes. trump said the memo totally vindicated him, which is a lie. he does not want the democratic memo to come out because it's facts. it's ten pages of data and evidence. we know data and evidence tend to not exonerate the president, but rather implicate him. so this is a fonot a formal obstruction of justice, but this is the president concerned exclusively about donald trump. >> the casual nature of their use of national security information to create a passion play for his base. so that they can have the substance of their denial when mueller's information comes out. this is the tweet where donald trump came out, tells his base -- when he tweets, he's

just tweeting to his 37%. the memo totally vindicate trump in probe. the witch hunt goes on and on. there was no collusion. it's nothing, nothing. i come back to you, nick, if richard nixon had been able to orchestrate this elaborate of a game to try to make watergate look like a hoax, he would have never resigned. >> that's right. but the problem with this hoax is they're playing with our national security information. they're taking information out of this huge fisa application, cherry picking certain facts. they think they can just put those forward without putting the rest of it in that shows what they're saying are total lies. >> the fisa court can't react, they can't put out the memos and say no, no, no. here is what we used to approve these fees isa memos.

>> one chuck spejudge speaks on order, he won't speak back. the justice department won't speak back on this. this is a blatant form of mccarthyism. taking something out of thin air, trying to make a deal out of it with carter page, who everybody agrees was being investigated as a russian spy long before the trump administration ever existed, and, in fact, they had a lot of information that they were gathering, otherwise they wouldn't have had successive orders here. >> yeah. >> so the whole thing is bogus to begin with. what it underscores is is the fact that the republicans and this administration should not be playing with our national security to make political points. >> frank, did you ever think you would live to see the day, you know, that -- you worked in counterintelligence for the fbi, that politicians and an administration would literally use national security information, use the personal text messages of fbi agents,

cherry picked to find the ones that make their case, make the agents look bad, would attack their own intelligence services and jeopardize national security in the view of the fbi by putting out this absurd memorandum from devin nunes all to protect one guy, to protect the president of the united states from justice? >> joy, this is cringe worthy stuff for a counterintelligence professional. it's the weaponization of classified intelligence for political purposes. look, this is the stuff of third world countries, the stuff of countries that i worked against in terms of communist nations in terms of controlling their intel. this is bad stuff. it doesn't end well for us. >> that's my question, paul. we talk a lot on this show, we talk with you guys about what will happen if -- if there's a subpoena issued by robert mueller. at this point why should anyone beli believe that donald trump would

even respond to a subpoena? he has placed himself outside the law. he will ignore it. >> under the constitutional design it's the congress, the legislative body that is supposed to check the executive when he goes off in the way that trump lhas. the republicans who lead the congress are not fulfilling their constitutional responsibilities. they're not limiting trump's excess of power, not limiting the times that he overtly and blatantly obstructs justice. they let him get away with it and they encourage it. >> what happens if donald trump is served a subpoena by robert mueller if he refuses it? >> he'll refuse it, he'll go to federal district court. the court will say this is a valid subpoena, it should be enforced. he'll appeal it to the circuit court. the circuit court will say it's a valid subpoena. >> do you trust the judges on

the supreme court not to be under donald trump's sway? >> yes. the president is not above the law. everybody was doing the same kind of sort of prognosticating when the tapes case was before the supreme court saying well, they're mostly republicans, will they come out and enforce this subpoena for the nixon tapes? they did. all of them. >> yeah. >> so, again, trump might avoid the constitutional crisis by using the fact that there have been resignations, and then that person would have control over the mueller. >> that's right, rachel brand has resigned. >> to work at walmart. >> to work at walmart. this is scary. thank you guys. appreciate it. coming up, the latest on this week's creep tort. for your heart...

your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

there are seven continents... seven seas... but at at celebrity cruises, we'd argue... more than seven wonders.

for a limited time enjoy two free perks, like complimentary wi-fi and drinks. a savings for everyone in your stateroom when you book now, during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event. armored vehicles, missile systems, fighter jets, oh my. look what else could be in the trump military parade and why

it's even happening at all. that's after the break. once home to the world's image center, new york state is now a leader in optics, photonics and imaging. fueled by strong university partnerships, providing the world's best talent. and supported with workforce development to create even more opportunities. all across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov.

i'm about to pop a cap of "mmm fresh" in that washer with unstopables in-wash scent boosters by downy. ah, it's so fresh. and it's going to last from wash to wear for up to 12 weeks. right, freshness for weeks! downy unstopables. for a fresh too feisty to quit. and now try downy unstopables with the original scent of tide

within one of the greatest parades i've seen. it was two hours of military might and a tremendous thing for france. the spirit of france. >> donald trump's wish is now a command. the wag post "washington post" reporting in ian 18a iaa januar

meeting, trump's ongoing desire for a military parade was interpreted to be a presidential directive. while bastille day celebrates the popptoppling of a monarch, trump's show of might is more like ruling like one. this is the latest moves in a gradual slide towards youautac a asha gradual slide towards youautac a ashautacracy. gentlemen, this book is scaring me, but i feel like it's important to read it to prepare

ourselves for something americans don't think about. you write in this book there are certain tests for democracies. one of them being not allowing an autocrat to get hold of a major political party. republicans have done that. another is people being willing to defend the institutions against their own partisan. republicans have failed that. how far are we in your view towards a slide towards real you auto cra autocracy in america? >> don't think we're on a slide, but we need to worry. we've taken our democracy for granted. we assume no matter how recklessly we behave we can't break our democracy. one lesson that we learned in researching this book, and one of the reasons we wrote the book was to tell americans, no, we need to be careful. democracies can die. there are some warning signs on the horizon.

we don't think democracy in the united states has died. we don't think it's necessarily dying. but we think there's reason for concern. >> daniel, you talk about how quickly it can turn. you have the coup, that's one sort of version of it, it happens swiftly, you can see it, then the slow drip, drip, drip. like in venezuela, you had an election, another election, then you slide in. people don't feel the radical changes, so they don't really know it's happening. is there a country -- i'm throwing this to daniel, steve i think answered first, is there a country analogous to where we are now, similar to us? >> first of all, the u.s. is a much older democracy than many of these countries. since the collapse of communism, the way democracies die is through elections. politics get elected and democ way, like venezuela and turkey.

so the u.s. is a much older democracy than these countries, so it's much more secure. our checks and balances work much more effectively. that said, as steve noted, there's certain warning signs. certain strategies often used by authoritarians, there's echoes of them. going after law enforcement agencies, trying to politicize them, trying to tilt the electoral playing field to protect the incumbent. these are the kinds of strategies that electoral authoritarians have used to entrench themselves in power. we see signs of this in the u.s., but the fact we're having debates about this is reassuring. but again, we she not take democracy for granted. >> joy, you're right that the key here is the role that the governing party plays. in the past when we've had presidents that have sort of stepped over the line or attempted to step over the line, whether roosevelt's court packing or nixon, it's been at least the president's own party

that stood up to him and eventually blocked him. our concern, as you pointed out, is that the republicans don't seem to be willing to play that role this time around. >> that's my concern, masha. george wallace wanted to be the nominee of the democratic party. they made it clear we're not interested in having you being the nominee of our party. joe mccarthy was eventually shut down by fellow senators. i don't see the evidence, maybe i'm too cynical, but i don't see any evidence of republicans elected in washington willing to rein in and make our institutions work. then i look at the states, in wisconsin refusing to hold elections because they think the other party might win. trying to impeach supreme court justices that don't give them what they want. gerry commandm

gerrycommandering ju gerrymandering. are you hopeful or worried? >> in a multi-party system, there is always negotiation, but in a two-party system that responsibility weighs so heavily that a party would step up and always -- check its own leaders. that's not happening. >> it's not. i want to go to this parade thing. i feel like a lot of the media has treated this as another trump thing, another thing to watch. how much will it cost? will it tear up the roads? what are the optics of this? this, in my mind, is harkening to a totalitarian idea. kim jong-un does these parades. this is louisiana senator john

kennedy. a republican expressing opposition to the idea of a kim jong-un style military parade. >> i think confidence is silent, and insecurity is loud. america is the most powerful country in all of human history. everybody knows it and we don't need to show it off. we're not north korea. we're not russia. we're not china. i don't want to be. >> that's what we talked about, somebody from the same party rebuking the idea, but here is the secretary of defense, james mattis, one of the grown-ups in the room of mainstream press. >> we're all aware in this country of the president's affection and respect for the military. we've been putting together some options and we'll send them up

to the white house for decision. >> the military times did a poll, 89% of readers said don't do this, we don't want it. what do you make of this idea of a military parade? >> i don't think donald trump has a great design for establishing a totalitarian regime here. far from it. i think he has a very, very simple understanding of power. he thinks power should be absolute. he thinks he should have a 90% approval rating. he thinks he should control the population. he likes that word. he thinks parades, applause go with power the same way that gold leaf goes with wealth. you look at his apartment, luke at his white house and you look at the way he performs power. >> steve and daniel, make us hopeful here. give us one thing -- steve was a bit more optimistic. do you see signs that the institutions are working to rein in this impulse that donald trump has, this autocratic impul impulse?

what signs do you see that the institutions are working? >> a couple in particular. one, the courts have mainly done their jobs thus far. particularly early on with a bunch of decrees and presidential memos that were blocked. i think the media in general has done an excellent job. the media has been tough on trump and for good reason. those two checks and those two key elements of democracy have largely done their job. congress gets a much, much lower grade. we have a republican controlled congress, so we rely on the republican party to hold trump accountability, to check his abuses, and not only are they largely not doing that but they're getting worse. as we see with the nunes memo, they're carrying water for trump. >> do you agree, daniel? give us your comment. >> that's right. so, you know, we do think that there's a long track record in american history. we wrote this book because we

are worried. we really want people to take this threat seriously. donald trump having a military parade without a military victory is like an adult throwing themselves a birthday party in the middle of the year when it's not their birthday. you are concerned about this, i think it's an indication of the kind of inclinations that donald trump has. so the thing to focus on is whether or not the institutions and the republican party in particular stand up to him. there certainly these worrying signs especially on the side of the republican party. >> thank you all. for more of my thoughts on this topic, check out my latest column in the daily beast, republican rule, week 55: there is no bottom to this bottom. coming up, donald trump goes all in on defending abusers of women. ... with audible. audible has the world's largest selection of audiobooks. for just $14.95 a month... you get a credit good for any audiobook ...

and you can roll your credits to the next month if you don't use them. audible members get free no hassle exchanges ... and use the mobile app to listen anytime, anywhere. start a 30-day trial and your first audiobook is free. listening, is the new reading. text audio22 to five hundred five hundred to start listening today.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ if you wear a denture, you not only want a clean feeling every day, you want your denture to be stain free. did you know there's a specialty cleanser that's gentle enough for everyday use and cleans better than regular toothpaste?

try polident cleanser. it has a four in one cleaning system that kills ten times more odor causing bacteria than regular toothpaste, deep cleans where brushing may miss, helps remove tough stains, and maintains the original color of your dentures when used daily. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture, use polident every day. we have an update now on our top story. donald trump is doubling down on his defense of the white house aides who resigned this week amid allegations of abuse. just moments ago trump tweeted people's lives are being shattered and destroyed by a mere allegation. some are true and some are false, some are old and some are new. there is no recovery for someone

falsely accused, life and career are gone. is there no such thing any longer as due process? joining us to discuss activist ron schaefer, redemption in the age of trump, fascism and life. frank, i'll get your reaction. we saw donald trump's defense of roy moore saying he denied the so therefore, you know, there we go. steve wynn who has been multiply abused of abuse and sexual harassment, we have to give him a chance. what do you make that he's doubling down on his support for former aide rob porter? >> you know, it's weird this happens in the very week that he was at a prayer breakfast with a bunch of evangelicals and i just want to remind people of the idea that justice and love and compassion is change of mind and repentance and you have to admit what you have done and take the consequences and change your life. since trump has never admitted that he is a serial abuser of

women, who by the way, could not get a security clearance from the fbi if he was hired as a dishwasher in the white house because of his public proclamations and bragging on abuse and brutality toward women, a point to note, by the way, of course, he's going to double down because if he doesn't he's pointing the finger right at himself and since he is unwilling to repent, he is unwilling to change, he is unwilling to tell the truth and he is surrounded by sycophant, lick spittel republicans from sarah huckabee on down who have made a profession of defending the indefensible as if there are people in the white house defending these coaches who abused women in a serial molestation. that's where we are at. that's who the president is. >> people on social media said there were good people on both sides in the charlottesville riots that resulted in the death of a young women, donald trump has bragged about walking in on teenage girls while they were

nationed and he c naked because he owned the pageant and grabbing women by their genitalia, on his side is bill o'reilly and he keeps wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to men accused of abuse and the roy moore allegations involved children. how is it that this person is still considered, evangelicals are saying god made him president. there was a piece in politico that talked about that. how is it there is no separation from these kinds of men and the evangelical community and keep in mind that rob porter is a mormon, and these are men touted as religious men. >> yeah, i mean, you know, joy, i know you described yourself as a church girl sometimes and you know my father was a famous evangelist, and i've written about this in "letter to lucy" in terms of my own journey away from this right-wing tradition toward a tradition of beauty and acceptance, but i want to point something out. speaking as someone who knows something about christianity, if

you take the god of the bible seriously, if god had wanted to send a test to american evangelicals, especially the white evangelical supporters of trump that would test their faithfulness, nothing could have shown them up to have failed more than this lust for power that goes along with anything. trump, the molester and the person who attacks our security agencies and by the way, speaking as a proud father of a u.s. marine, that doesn't sit well with me. porter, an abuser of women. kelley, someone who has become a serial liar and shown himself to be in many cases to be a racist in the way that he's talked about a black woman who is in government. roy moore, a pedophile who these same evangelicals swung behind. this is just too much. it's like something out of the old testament who the people of god have been tested to see whether they will bow down before something that is false like the golden calf, and they have failed. white evangelical america, make no mistake now, as the solid

bedrock supporters of molesters, of pedophiles, of these sorts of folks have switched sides and they are no longer representing anything that is -- that could be called moral by the traditions of any religion and in terms of a bible prophecy-type story, these folks are now on the side of everyone that ever stood against justice and for evil. that's where we're at. there is no way to parse this or make nice about it. >> and at the same time, the other piece of it and i am glad you are able to stay and talk about it you have this marrying of the church and state. there is a piece in "the new york times" that being bahhed tru backed trump and found the door open to them, i can't look into the president's heart to know if he personally believes these positions he's advocating or whether he thinks it's smart politics to embrace them because of strong evangelical, and frankly, i don't care.

as a christian, i'm seeing these policies embraced and enacted and he's doing that. >> he's reversed lgbt rights, he's taken the country in an extremely socially conservative direction and it's politically expedient and so we see the church weaponized or the church weaponizing him and women end up getting short shifted which is not news. >> barack obama wants to fundamentally transform america. >> yeah. >> that was the charge they made against him and now we are being fundamentally transformed. >> and look where the right is right now. evangelicals are refusing to condemn the things that donald trump has done time and time again, and it is -- the hypocrisy again, every time you hear this story is just unbelievable, but i think there are two thicks happening with this tweet. the one part of it is he uses

twitter as we know to message, to communicate to his very small and shrinking base. this is what he's doing there and the other part of this where it's a data point. it's one more thing that tells us, that's showing us this donald trump is just -- he stands with abusers. he doesn't stand with the abused and it's almost as if he's projecting. he's talking about himself. >> yeah. i do wonder. i almost just want to talk to republican women for the rest of the day and find out how are they processing that this is their party. fran shaver and masha, thank you very much. the other story that happened on friday. we'll have more next. uncertain.. but you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world. call us or your advisor... t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man.

start winning today. book now at lq.com

i call myself the king of debt. i'm great at debt. i've made a fortune by using debt and if things don't work out i renegotiate the debt and president obama has pretty much doubled the debt since he's been in office. someone will pay a big price. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." life comes at you fast. donald trump was insisting president obama had created, quote, a time bomb by adding to the deficit. six years ago paul ryan called it a generational crisis. >> in this generation a defining responsibility of government is to steer our nation clear of a debt crisis while there is still time. >> eight years ago, this was the refrain from house speaker john

boehner. >> a budget which spends too much, taxes too much and borrows too much from our kids and our grandkids. >> president obama's $851 billion stimulus was, so taxing that arlen specter switched parties each by doing so helped save the american economy. they insistered time and time again that it would ruin the economy and now their fears have evaporated. the $300 billion approved on friday with support, and the $1.5 trillion tax cut upon republican spending bills have dwarfed or shall we say trumped the stimulus they hated so much. together the republicans' bills have added an $800 billion to the deficit with a "b." joining me now ali velshi, and president and ceo of latino, and

i'll start with you, when did your party stop caring about deficits? >> well, this -- this so-called bipartisan spending act of budget act of 2018 is a fiscal abomination. you, actually, joy, understated the problem. the bill increases spending over the next two years by $300 billion. but once those higher spending levels are part of the baseline, they'll continue forever. so on a 10-year basis, we're talking about more like a $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion and any republican who claims to be fiscally responsible signing on to this deal risks branding themselves as a hypocrite. >> your party supported blowing a $1.5 trillion hole in the treasury by gifting themselves and their friends tax cuts. it's not like if you set the spending bill aside republicans don't care about deficits because you all deleted that money out of the treasury. >> well, leave the y'all out of it because it's not -- this is

not something that i support. >> you didn't support that big tax cut? >> i supported -- >> that was $1.5 trillion. >> i disagree with some of your math and estimations of the revenue impact of the tax bill. on the spending side, absolutely, this bill is going to blow a gigantic hole in the debt, and so the combination of raising the deficit through the tax bill and raising the deficit even more through the spending bill is a huge, huge problem. >> let me go to you, ali because what i just heard there is republicans have no problems blowing up the hole as long as it's for tax cuts. >> for their priorities. tax cuts or military spending and those are the two things that are okay. what i used to love was the intellectual honesty of saying we want smaller government, increase tax cuts and spending for the military. we'll increase spending as long as it's not -- on our watch, it will cut things. a lot of fiscal conservatives have always said, let's blow the

deficit up so that it gives us a really good excuse to cut out the things in government we don't want and social programs and things like that. that's the problem. because there is something going on around republican circles that says this will create some sort of economic growth that will cover for all of the deficit. it's just not true. >> to your very point, republicans are already setting it up that their next stop having deleted, the $1.5 trillion tax cut, there is no revenue. that's not something that creates revenue. >> correct. >> they framed it that way. that's something that hands out tax cuts to very rich people and corporations and here's paul ryan, saying now we've hurt the deficit. here's paul ryan. >> we have shown as house republicans what you need to do to fully deal with this debt crisis. it is entitlement reform. we have more work to do with all of our friends on the other side of the aisle and the other side of the rotunda. >> so maria, are activists aware now that paul ryan's next move is to come out after medicare, social security and medicaid? >> absolutely. that was one of the reasons why

there was going to be that government shutdown in the first time that lasted three days. it was because of these entitlement programs and they basically want to keep it at the same level while they're infusing funding into the military, but let's be clear. when obama went and did the stimulus package, it was because we needed shovel-ready programs because our economy was in a spiral downward. he needed to basically infuse funding from the federal reserve to ensure that the people didn't basically -- the country did not drown in debt. this is the opposite problem. we are enjoying a healthy economy, folks have a very low unemployment and the fact that the republicans are doing this now is risky business and that's one of the reasons that in the last week the dow jones went absolutely crazy, because they have to make sure that we are infusing and we maintain a steady inflation rate. what the republicans are doing right now are playing and we might have to increase inflation. we might have to increase our deficits and they're okay with it and the reason that they're okay with it and they are looking for short-term gains for

midterm elections and they recognize someone will see a check and sure, they'll have $30, a little bit more every month and for the normal, average voter $30 makes a difference every month and oh, wait, maybe the republicans are playing on my side, but the difference between the republicans and the democrats is that the republicans are doing the stimulus package to make corporations and their friends richer. the democrats when they do the stimulus package is to make sure the american people, their wages increase and they feel it in their pockets. >> you're getting an amen from ali velshi. >> we have heard marco rubio and paul ryan say that we're going after entitlement reform when the bottom line is even if you impose requirements on people who don't already work to get their medicare, there's no way youic ma up for the hole that republicans have blown, and it's bad math. >> what happens if you privatize medicare and medicaid? marco rubio said maybe social security, too. >> the problem is when you look at medicare and medicaid, they're not broken programs and the issue is under obamacare we were looking to extend it to more people because we know the

outcomes of covering more people with health care is better for the economy. america spends three times as much as most developed nations do on health care so it doesn't make sense. all you're doing is putting things over on people in a way that doesn't fix the system. this is just bad math, but it's weird because i never thought people would use the excuse of don't worry. the economy will explode and it will be fantastic. if i tried that kind of math anywhere elsewhere i spend money it wouldn't work. as someone who probably believes in that math, how can republicans justify a permanent tax cut for corporations, temporary tax cuts that for most people is only $18 to $30, and then turn it around and cutting people's medicaid and medicare and social security disability which mick mulvaney claims ssdi is welfare. how can republicans morally justify that? >> well, i don't think they can morally justify increasing spending by $1.5 trillion to 2

trillion -- >> on people. you don't think the government should spend money on people, they should do tax expenditures for the rich. you can't justify spending money on people and human beings? >> we should absolutely have a robust safety net for people who need the help. >> why cut it? >> $47.3 trillion in unfunded liabilities driven by medicare and social security. the president opposes medicare reform so whatever paul ryan wants to do or not wants to do on medicare is not going to happen while he's speaker. >> my question is how can republicans justify cutting or privatizing medicare, medicaid and social security? >> well, cutting is one thing. but they should modernize the program. these are programs that deserve to be modernized -- >> what do you mean by modernize? what do you mean by that? >> warren buffett is eligible for government subsidized medicare. why are billionaires and millionaires getting medicare that they don't need? let's focus the program on the lower-income populations that

rely on medicare. so there are ways to reform the medicare program that make it more progressive and more means tested and therefore, more fiscally responsible. >> ali, does means testing help? >> that's not the problem. the issue is when you have medicare -- one of the things about medicare and medicaid that make it work is that it's as close as you can get to universal coverage. this is the same thing as talking about medicare recipients to get their stuff. the one thing that we have to look about when you look at an unfunded liability and tax cuts that don't result in economic growth is an unfunded liability. when you do things that don't stimulate the economy and pay themselves back is all the same thing. if you give out more than you take in you're doing the same thing. this doesn't make sense. this is a bad budget and a bad set of tax cuts and it will create short-term stimulus for some people and that will make them feel good about what the republican party is doing for them, but in the end we'll be sitting here in five years

regretting this happened. >> are you concerned that this idea of means testing also became programs for the poor and the poor are not a voting constituency. once you take them away from middle class people and rich people then they take it away. >> that's exactly right. the reason why they work -- all these programs work is because everybody has skin in the game. they want to make sure they're as robust as possible so they, too, can enjoy it. remember when bush was running on the whole idea of privatizing social security? that was when the markets were rallying and it sounded like a great idea. >> right. >> all of a sudden the market went the opposite direction. everybody's social security, that little bank account would have been wiped out overnight and that's what we have to keep reminding the american people. >> speaking of this week. i ran into people and i said, should i sell it all? what happened this week? >> there are concerns. people are figuring out that our economy is heating up and

unemployment continues to drop. wage pressures are going up a little bit so it makes it a little more expensive for companies to pay people and then we have interest rates going up because we are worried about this inflation in part caused by this tax cut. the bottom line is we have had ten similar, ten similar adjustments over the last nine years. on average, they happen once a year, but we haven't had one for two years and it has greater velocity and is most ferocious and has more velocity or as my friend says veracity. there's not something lurking that will crush our economy like it did in 2008. >> yeah. >> this is a market that was a little overdone and it's adjusting and i don't think it will be a problem. >> are you surprised that wall street seems to be impervious to the instability to the white house? >> i do think that's something, but i do remember that after 9/11 it took a month to come back from the losses. so the market is quite resilient. it's sending a message out right now that we are concerned about some things and the stock prices are getting ahead of themselves

and there aren't a lot of ceos saying our stocks are inexpensive right now. everybody gets it. the stock market is a little bit frothy. unless you started your investments a month ago you are still pretty well ahead by 12%. >> you know, vel i and rule is my drug of choice. i watch it every day. it's just such the a great show. >> let's just hope it doesn't get taken off by medicaid. >> at 12:30 p.m. right here on msnbc, get more of the great ali velshi with stephanie ruhle. more after the break. verocity.

every day courageous, patriotic dreamers lose their status and every day the american dream slips further out of reach. >> you see the recurrent theme of the dreamers wanting to get back to, in. it's not just an issue. it's a value and something very important to us. it's about the children. it's about the children. >> nancy pelosi set a new record on wednesday for the longest-ever speech on the house floor. speaking for more than eight hours in a marathon plea to republicans to act on immigration before trump officially ends daca next month. two days later congress approved a major budget deal and yet the

bill excluded protection for the dreamers. the undocumented immigrants who were brought to the u.s. as children. house speaker paul ryan responding to nancy pelosi's demands has promised a bill to resolve the fate of 700,000 dreamers has has senate majority leader mitch mcconnell who said debate on an immigration bill. joining me now is maria hinojosa. does it look like there will actually be a bill that comes out of the senate or the house? >> like i said, once it is actually being voted on then we know, right? because at this point it's still so much confusion and again, let's get back to the core in terms of what the white house wants to do, in terms of the just reframing of immigration, right? basically saying we don't need any more of these kinds of immigrants. legally or even if they're coming in as undocumented. >> right. >> so it is still a tremendous amount of confusion. we were down in washington in

the thick, the political podcast that i host was down there, and the reporting, joy, the democrats have got a lot of problems right now. yes, there is a tremendous amount of focus on what's happening with the republicans. >> how so? >> in terms of the democrats? >> yeah. uh-huh. >> because they don't believe that what -- what we heard on the ground is that they saw what nancy pelosi was doing and they saw it as a political game. that they don't believe that these democrats have a real understanding of getting the backs of the dreamers and undocumented people as a whole. that this is, quote, unquote, not their democratic party. >> so they don't think they'll cut a good deal or they don't think that they'll push for a deal at all? >> i think that they have questions about that. >> whether there will be a deal or not? >> again, this is for the democrats, right? >> yeah. >> these are the activists pointing fingers and saying what are you going to do? i'm thinking a lot about 2018

midterms and what is the democratic message? >> yeah. >> and i don't think it's what i've been saying for the longest time it's not clear what they're doing and what they stand for. >> it is clear what the republicans stand for and paul ryan has made it clear that he said he won't put a bill on the floor unless donald trump supports it which is an interesting attitude to take for the leader of an equal branch of government who could send them a bill and make them veto or sign it. nancy pelosi called it the speaker of the white house at this point. this is what donald trump wants and this is what paul ryan wants. border security a $25 billion trust fund for the wall that mexico was supposed to pay for, ending extended family migration which today, i think we need to kill that term, chain migration should never be used again, it is very offensive and eliminating visa lottery. all non-starters. this is what donald trump if you're looking at this from the republican point of view. this is what he got elected on,

remember when he came down the escalator. immigration. and that was the huge fire. so with that said, what i'd like to look back at is what mitch mcconnell has come out and said and basically, he wants to start the dialogue for this at pretty much a zero base and almost how they do a zero-based budget and we'll just start from zero and build it up. >> right. >> i think that that right now is our only hope because we're going to build this from scratch. what i don't understand. if i were daca and i were part of the dreamers and i saw on television that trump had granted amnesty for 1.8 million dreamers and the democrats said no, we're not going to do it because we don't want to fund that wall i would be highly irritated and wondering who is standing up for me because they had a chance. he said i'll approve it, 1.8 million dreamers get amnesty. that's great, but i need that 25 billion for that wall. >> he wanted more than that.

>> i know. >> maria, this is the challenge is donald trump, it's interesting. i'll give you these 1.8, but all the rest go in the bin. so basically, you can't bring in family members. we'll kill family migration. so basically, they're pitting the 1.8 million dreamers against every other immigrations, what about tps and haitians? >> and they're carrying it on their shoulders, joy. they are literally carrying this on their shoulders. so i understand what you're saying which is just make this deal. >> right. >> but it is much more complex. for these young people to basically say, okay, to save us, we're just going to allow this white house and the republican party to basically reframe the entire conversation, not even conversation the policies -- >> for all other non-white immigrants to say 1.8 million. >> do you think the dreamers understand that? do you think if pelosi comes out and says, look, this is about the greater good. this is about the bigger

picture. do they understand that? >> how is it the greater good if you say we'll save 1.8 million and we'll literally ruin the lives of tens of millions. >> noelle, they do understand it. >> okay. that's what i was asking. okay. >> these are their lives. these are young people and their families and we forget about the parents, right? these are children -- young adults who are trying to figure out how to protect themselves and trying to figure out how to move forward in a country, trying to keep their mental health in check and yet at the same time they're, like, okay, even if something happens for daca or the dreamers in general, what about my parents? they're still going to be walking around and they know because they are feeling the presence of i.c.e. in their communities. >> that's right. >> so they understand that that means maybe i'll be okay, but seriously, i'm not going to know what's going to happen with mom and dad every single day. >> meanwhile, this is the way that the -- the chief of staff to the president of the united states talks about them, about

dreamers. >> there are 690,000 official daca registrants, and the president sent over what amounts to be two and a half times that number to 1.8 million. the difference between 690 and 1.8 million were the people that some would say were too afraid to sign up, others would say were too lazy to get off their asses, but they didn't sign up. >> many people were afraid to sign up because people like him were in charge of homeland security and you can't make a deal with the white house. >> i think that what kelley said up until it took a detour for crass language where it says lazy and getting off their as. >> what do you think? >> i don't like that part of it. he should have put a period earlier on in that statement. >> but this is how they think and again, we can't remove -- >> that's how kelley thinks. >> he thinks like --

>> he's leading the policy. i mean, the notion and the lack of comprehension of what it takes for young people to say i'm going to give all of my information to the federal government and trust you guys, this is really complicated. when i talk to these young people you would want them to say yes, i'm all in, but the truth is right now there is a deep concern about how much they're revealing. i know right now that there are family members who have moved from their homes and quit their jobs and they're working underground in order to avoid being picked up. so this is the state of mind of people living in our country right now that they have got to go underground because they are targeted and feel consistently targeted. >> before we end the segment because we are out of time on this segment, i wanted to give noelle an opportunity on the other big topic that we're talking about today, to give you a chance to respond on donald trump and this is his response on rob porter. people's lives are being shattered detroyed by a mere

allegation, some are true and some are false, some are old and some are new, there is no recovery for someone falsely accused, life and career are gone. there is no such thing any longer as due process? >> he is right on. these women are destroying lives. they are destroying careers and maybe they should be and that's the part of the movement. we live in a movement culture. this movement is working because we're getting rid of some of the bad actors, harvey weinstein. we are getting rid of people in hollywood. >> steve wynn -- >> is your party going to give back steve wynn's money? >> he hasn't been charged with anything yet? >> is that the standard? neither has rob porter. >> i can't speak on that behalf. >> the rnc, should they give the money back? >> if he is guilty, but he is not yet. >> porter lost his job. >> that's porter. these are each different, separate thing. these are all separate things. i'm not going to be here to defend men and people doing -- >> sure. >> sexual things or battery, but what i'm saying is the tweet is

right. the tweet is right. it's destroying lives and careers. some of them well need to be destroyed. >> we'll make that the final word on this block. noelle, and maria hinojosa, always looking stunning. rob on his investigation next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

there are seven continents... seven seas... but at at celebrity cruises, we'd argue... more than seven wonders. for a limited time enjoy two free perks, like complimentary wi-fi and drinks. a savings for everyone in your stateroom when you book now, during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event.

coming up, hollywood giant rob reiner joins us to discuss the russia investigation. more "a.m. joy" after the break. we may be one of the world's most familiar companies, but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon.

andyou or joints. somethingr for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. as long as the occupant of the oval office continues to refute the unanimous assessment

of cia, fbi and nsa about what they did and continues to ignore, i think, the real challenges to our system of government by what the russians and others can do, it -- it undercuts any effort to try to deal with this issue comprehensively, strategically and thoughtfully. >> that was a clip from a video by the committee to investigate russia featuring advisory board members representing more than 90 years of collective intelligence experience. they want americans to understand why russian interference with american democracy is a big deal as well as the dangers of the president of the united states undermining his own intelligence in federal law enforcement agencies. joining me now is malcolm nance, executive director and author of "the plot to hack america," and rob reiner. i want to play one more piece of

it with former director clapper on russian interference and how long it's been going on. take a look at that. >> there are historical records that they've attempted to interfere in virtually all of the national elections since the '60s, but never, never this aggressive, direct or multidimensional. >> tell me about the origin of doing these interviews and why you thought it was important for americans to hear specifically from these two gentlemen. >> well, what i felt is that any time our country has been attacked in the past, whether it's 9/11 or pearl harbor, we've always come together as a country, you know, the old adage that partisanship ends at the water's edge, it seems to have disappeared. i mean, here we had an attack by a foreign enemy power and we have remained divided. we are not doing anything to shore up our defenses and to create protocols for what offensively we should be doing. make no mistake.

we are in a cyber war with -- annen me power aan enemy power and we need to help people understand the gravity of what is happening. you just played clips who two guys between them have 90 years of experience and dedication to protecting our country and they don't normally talk out, speak out after they leave office, but they felt that we are in such dire straits that they are compelled to speak out because quite frankly, they've never seen anything like that we are seeing right now and we are seeing the pillars of democracy being attacked and nothing being done about it. >> and james clapper and i'll play one more clip of james clapper and he's talking about what the rugs are doing and i have a question for malcolm on the other side. >> for me, i've seen a lot of bad stuff in my 50 years in intelligence, but i don't recall anything that gave me this

really, in the pit of my stomach and more uncomfortable, uneasy feeling than when i realized what the rugs wessians were doi. >> is that how you felt, malcolm? >> what we are seeing is exactly what rob just said. american democracy is being undermined fundamentally and the worst part about it is, it's one thing for an intelligence agency by direction of a foreign leadership to order an operation of this magnitude. it's just that there are americans right now working actively with them. in the old days they would have used the term fifth columnist, right? they would have had bugs bunny cartoons coming out and saying these people should leave the theater. we are seeing not even an erosion. we are seeing almost a demolition of the pillars of american democracy, and to have the top two intelligence officers of the united states to come out and say publicly that we are under attack and remain under attack.

there is a crime in progress and that there are americans who they believe are complicit with it? and our entire infrastructure of govern am has decided they will do nothing shows that they have not lived up to their oath to protect and defend the constitution. >> rob, it's frightening enough that you have an administration that has refused to implement sanks, and h sanctions and have refused russian activities and we don't even know what they've talked about, and on and on and on, but then you have ordinary americans just -- not be concerned about it at all. you tweeted out having to defend the credibility of the two men you interviewed. the desperate attack on men who have given over 90 years of dedicated service to our country is clear evidence of a conscientiousness of guilt.

who were you talking about? >> anybody who wants to attack not just these guys, but the whole intelligence community, the law enforcement community and the department of justice and the free press. these attacks are indication, as you talked to marcia earlier, that authoritarianism has entered the bloodstream of america, and it is very subtle, and i think the reason -- we're going to put aside whatever donald trump's motivations are, and the investigations will determine what, if any, wrongdoing was done, but we have been invaded in such a subtle way because we don't see planes hitting the buildings. we don't see bombs dropping in pearl harbor, but we have been invaded as malcolm points out, we are under attack, but we don't feel it, but it's like walking around with high blood pressure and all of a sudden you're not aware of it and you drop dead. so it's insidious and it has

affected our bloodstream and if we don't do something about it and that's why guys like john brennan and james clapper are running around with their hair on fire because they're trying to wake people up to tell them we have to do something about it. we have to protect ourselves and if we don't, our 241 years of democracy and self-governance will start to collapse. >> you know, malcolm, i am old enough to remember when republicans used to accuse liberals of attacking law enforcement. you know, the blue lives matter crowd were very much for law enforcement. the fbi has problematic in the past. they spied on dr. king, it has a fraught history, the cia with the intel that was manipulated and i don't think they invented it, but it was manipulated by the white house to get us into iraq so you have those kinds of questions, but what you haven't had is the president of the united states encouraging citizens to attack these agencies, encouraging them to attack our intelligence

officials. here's john brennan talking about donald trump's attacks den gradi denigrating the work of the fbi. >> if the president denigrates the work and professionalism of the cia, and others, how are the cia and the fbi going to work with counterparts around the globe on issues related to life and death matters whether it be terrorism or proliferation or whatever or interference in democratic systems? >> how much damage has donald trump done to the ability of foreign intelligence services to work with us? >> oh, phenomenal damage. foreign intelligence services understand what's going on. they may not share critical, raw data with us because it may end up in the oval office in the presidential daily briefing and the next thing you know, former -- the russian ambassador's visit and he just tells them what's going on. each nation is going to protect its own intelligence. they're going to share now where

necessary, not in the way that some of our sister agencies have openly flowed information, and they'll probably stick to just counterterrorism, things which affect everybody from isis and al qaeda, but if they get information on russian activities, they're going to hold that close to their chest. they may play with other agencies in europe, the germans and the french, but they probably won't share it with the united states out of fear that it may immediately be compromised by the president of the united states himself. >> yeah. >> -- which is absolutely terrifying. >> lucky for you, donald trump doesn't read his pdbs, apparently. >> rob, the final word to you because the denigration hasn't been with our services, christopher steele, our closest ally in the world into the super villain of the trump conspiracy theory, what do you make of that? >> well, it's a very sad day in this country when the leaders,

from the white house to the congress are more interested in protecting their power than in protecting the united states and its citizens. that's what's scary here. we don't have people standing up and protecting us against a foreign powers. it's not whether or not christopher steele's memo was accurate or not accurate. they don't care about that. they are just trying to tear down anything that will expose what actually happened here. so, you know, it's scary when we don't have our leaders doing the number one thing that they're supposed to be doing which is to make america safe. >> indeed. it is a great project and thank you very much for doing that, rob reiner. i know you have plenty of other stuff to do and thank you for being here and malcolm nance, thank you, guys. our a-team. coming up at the top of the hour, the growing firestorm over donald trump's latest tweets and

up next olympic gold medalist brian boitano joins me live. we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. why create something this extravagant? or make a back seat that feels nothing like a back seat? why give it every feature you could want, along with a few you didn't know you needed? it's simple. you can build a car, or you can build a cadillac. come in now for this exceptional offer on the cadillac ct6. get this low-mileage lease on this 2018 cadillac ct6 from around $549 per month.

visit your local cadillac dealer.

if i talked to people the way that president trump talks to people my mom would kick my

ass. i won't go to the white house, and i won't go because i don't think somebody like me would be welcome there. i know what it's it's like to go a room and feel like you're not wanted there. >> the first real showdown at the winter olympics may be between figure skater adam rippon, the first openly gay u.s. athlete to qualify for the winter games, and vice president mike pence who is leading the u.s. delegation in south korea. after rippon criticized pence's anti-gay policies and his support for gay conversion therapy, pence reached out to invite rippon to a conversation, when he declined.

pen pence's office now says the invitation was not extended. we're joined by brian boitano, tell us what you think about adam rippon's refusal to meet with the vice president. >> what adam is doing is extraordinarily brave. olympic athletes have been working their lives for this moment. for adam to send this message and be talking about this, it creates a distraction for him that could take away from his performance. but these are things that he feels passionate, that need to be talked about. and they do. and he has no better platform than being in the olympic games. and so there are two really important things happening for him right now. >> one more piece of him talking about standing up as an olympic athlete. and this is from an interview in

january. >> given this platform of being an olympic athlete, i think it's really important that we stand up for what we believe in, and we speak out against things that we think are wrong and injust. >> how important is adam rippon in the history and the trajectory of athletes being able to come out? you were able to come out but only after the olympics. does it make you hopeful or does it make you sad that it's 2018 before we have an athlete who is able to be openly gay and compete? >> well, i think it's great that it's finally here and he's a great spokesperson for the lgbtq community. these are subjects that need to be spoken about. it's great that he feels passionate about something that he's willing to share the spotlight with the focus of his skating. >> i turn to you for the

politics, as i often do. mike pence is crying fake news on the idea that adam rippon doesn't want to meet with him. he tweeted at him, "i want you to know we are," all caps, "for you. don't let fake necn distract you. i am proud of you." the suppopokespeople denied tha was ever for conversion therapy, but that was on his campaign website. >> good for adam rippon for calling out mike pence, who is a bigot and a fool. >> why do you think he tweeted him? >> it goes to what we were talking about earlier. i think what they do, the trump administration, is they use twitter as pence is using, to

send a message, to message to their base, oh, no, it's not me, it's fake news. the thing about it, joy, is that adam represents the best of this nation. that's why i say good for him. pence's history on equality is not just bad. it's atrocious. what he tried to do when he was governor, he didn't bring people together. he divided people. he wasn't a unifier. he divided people. he pushed bills to made it legal to attack lgbtq communities and he attacked women, syrian refugees trying to be in indiana, he made sure that didn't happen. that's what he did as governor and we have not forgotten. when he was supposedly running for reelection, he was in the 30s for his approval rating. so he is definitely not bringing anybody together. >> and notwithstanding during the ceremony was very odd, in

the host country. >> apparently, what did the trump administration say, in sports you shouldn't protest, i guess that's only for black athletes, apparently. >> good point. you can sit but you can't kneel. >> right. >> brian, about the climate, it does make me a little sad that we still have to have these kinds of conversations in 2018, you would think people would be more open. on fox news, fox news had to take down a piece that was written by john moody, and this is what he wrote. he is an executive at fox news. he wrote, unless it's changed overnight, the model in the olympics since 1894 has been faster, higher, stronger. it appears the u.s. olympic committee would like to change that to darker, guy ayer, different. if your goal is to win medals, that won't work. >> first of all, what does he know about winning medals? he doesn't know what it takes to win medals. it's like, you know, even fox news took that down, so it's

like, you know, at least they had the good judgment of doing that. it's just ridiculous. >> i'm going to give you the last word because you're great. thank you very much for being here. huge fans of yours. thank you so much for taking some of your time, appreciate it. and thank you for being here, you're my girl. be found. and it's exactly what you're looking for.

there'swhatever type ofhe end of eweekender you are,ton. don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com

and that's our show for today. "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow. up next, alex witt has the

latest. hopefully you'll uplift me, we had a dark show. >> it was a great show, we all remember brian boitano, an amazing athlete/performer. >> gave me my entire life in one segment. >> good job. thank you very much. >> bye. i'm alex witt at msnbc world headquarters in new york. here's what's happening. president trump within the last 90 minutes defending the accused in a new tweet. it is getting some explosive reaction as he fails to mention any victims, again. >> he says he's innocent. i think you have to remember that. he said very strongly yesterday that he's innocent. >> this comes after one of his top aides resigned over domestic abuse allegations. now a second resignation for the same thing. the fate of hope hicks. new information on where this latest west wing turmoil leaves the long time trump loyalist. not so