>> the question is who he can get confirmed into any of these jobs. >> or recess appointed. never a boring moment. my thanks to the squajeremy bas. i'll see you back here monday for deadline white house at 4:00 p.m. weird night in the west wing. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington tonight. the american presidency is grim and chaotic. "the new york times" is reporting the chief of staff is offering to resign. the communication chief is in danger, and the white house secretary is gone altogether. president trump publicly addressed the growing west wing scandal for the first time today defending the former aide who's been accused of two ex-wives of

violent behavior. >> we certainly wish him well. it's obviously a tough time for him. he did a very good job when he was in the white house. and we hope he has a wonderful career, and hopefully he will have a great career ahead of him. but it was very sad when we heard about it, and certainly he's also very sad now. and as you probably know he said he's innocent. and i think you have to remember that. he said very strongly yesterday that he's innocent. so you'll have to talk to him about that, but we absolutely wish him well. he did a very good job when he was at the white house. >> notice what president trump didn't mention. there's not one single mention of the either of it women accusing rob porter of abuse. and one of the ex-wives was on this morning. she recounted one episode. let's watch. >> we had been fighting and rob

followed me to the shower and pulled me out of the shower to continue the rage and immediately saw how scared i was and recognized what he was doing and released it. but that was a moment when i realized he didn't have control. >> you got a restraining order against him, so you feared some physical violence? >> it was a temporary protective order after an incident he had punched in a door of our home during our separation. >> while porter has called the allegations against him by his two ex-wives outrageous and false, meanwhile according to nbc news president donald trump frustrated is increasingly venting about his chief of staff john kelly and speculating about replacements according to multiple sources about the matter. among the people the president called to express dissatisfaction was none other than reince priebus.

in an interview today reince priebus denied that, saying the president has never complained to me about general kelly. nbc reporting he's also frustrated over communication director hope hick's role in the controversy. hick's is reportedly in a relationship with. sources telling nbc news he has not made a formal offer to resign. i'm joined by chief correspondent hally jackson, "the washington post" bureau chief phil rucker. he's the white house bureau chief. and jason. is there a sense with the chief offering to resign, the communications chief in danger, the secretary gone. what is the feeling and what's the noise and chatter level and the mood over there now? >> yeah, a lot of slammed doors and a lot of serious faces,

chris, is what we saw over the afternoon. let me tell you what kelly o'donald just heard from the chief of staff, and this is from the horse's mouth, john kelly himself saying, no, he did not offer to resign. so that is an the record saying he's not going to resign. and he served at the pleasure of the president, and a second source saying if the president were to say, hey, i don't want you to serve anymore, john kelly has been in the military, he knows how the command structure works. that is something he would obviously listen to. i'm told he feels irritated right now. as burn person put it to me, hey, he's answered a lot of questions about this, why does he keep getting questions about

how he handled this, looking to move past this. you talked about the vibe. it's been an interesting few hours here. because remember, yes, the press secretary is on a preplanned day off. we saw a huddling of aides behind closed doors. at what's points you had aides who sit outside these offices turning up the volume on the tv screens outside to perhaps it seemed to mask private conversations that were happening inside those offices. so clearly there was some crisis control, some damage control happening. as we have seen john kelly in and out of an area where reporters can go inside the west wing called upper press. and that is where nbc news had the opportunity to talk to him a couple of times. and he clarified the time line of when he found out. he said he was fist aware of investigations that something was up in november. but he said literally all he heard, and i'm paraphrasing here, that there was something being looked into-touch he said

he didn't fiend out the allegations were true until tuesday night, and then rob porter was gone. that raises some questions. tuesday night, remember, is when the white house put out a statement saying from john kelly that rob porter was a man of integrity. the bottom line seems to be, chris, people at this white house knew what going on. and we have one source saying don megan knew about a year ago. definitely one of those friday nights where -- >> let's talk about if he were a president and normal white house staff. i know that's a hell of a leap, but let's try that. a president kwekts his kpeexpecf staff to deal with this and know what their reporting and come through with. they go back door-to-door, every place they ever lived.

it's thorough investigation by the fbi. according to all the reporting i'm seeing the fbi was doing its job. as long as a year ago they happen getting indications there was violence in these exmarriages, former marriages. and wasn't that information enough to be brought to the attention of the chief of staff? >> i assume you're directing that question to me, chris. what i can tell you is that there are indications this came to light in the fall, that there was word this was happening, that these allegations had been out there -- >> it took nine months to get the information to the chief of staff. >> that is what john kelly told us tonight himself. in november he was told and briefed he said about the investigation, but did not get briefed on specifics. now, is it possible that the counsel don megan, his office knew about that earlier, yes. and our reports indicate last year he was being told about

this. there's an open question whether that trickled up to the top levels. >> i've been reading these reports of the time line, and i'm getting back to last january. let's go to phil rucker on this, white house bureau chief for the post. is there a problem here for the white house being incapable intellectually or emotionally of accepting fact from the fbi? that's their job to do background checks. john kelly doesn't go knocking on doors to see how a guy treated previous spouses. the fbi does. you have to rely on the fbi. are they accepting the truth of the fbi at this white house, sir? >> well, the problem, chris, is there's no clear accountability here. we have shifting statements, evolving time lines. this morning john kelly was at a private meeting at the white house where he told the aides he wanted them to go tell their colleague, to tell the lower level staffers at the white house he had taken decisive

action within 40 minutes of learning of these allegations of rob porter. that does not match the public record or the statements we have seen coming out of this white house where there was a conservative strategic attempt to try to protect rob porter, the staff secretary up until that came out. >> is general kelly trying to cover up? >> i don't know. i think he would serve himself if he would come out and answer these questions deliberately and be trance parent about what he and others knew about when they knew it, when they notified the president, what were the conversations with porter. we have conflicting accounts from the white house on that point. >> again, jason, you put the shoe on the other foot and you go suppose barack obama had something -- i constantly go back and check this. suppose he'd been involved in any of this stuff?

imagine some somebody in his top staff had been accused of this with records and police records and top orders and the person in charge of controlling all the paperwork and everything, and then it looked like his people covered up for it. >> it would be inexcusable. people wld ould be screaming fo his impeachment. this is smart man. this is the guy who has cleaned up a lault ot of things in the house, for us us to believe he didn't know for nine months and then suddenly decide he believed with the pictures it is a cover up. >> you know the culture there, is it so much a he culture that they can't deal with a her question? because i thought katy turr was excellent this afternoon. >> so i think there's a couple of pieces to that, chris. i think number one when you look

at the president's statement today, and you know i stick to the realm of the facts on hand. the president did not bring up the women who have accused rob porter of domestic violence. >> even with pronouns. >> i would contrast to what the president said with lester holt today with that sit down with north korea. because the president said domestic violence should not be tolerated in this country. >> he didn't know about the allegations against rob porter until he about the allegations, let's watch. >> i was appalled when i learned of the allegations against rob porter. the time he resigned is when i first became aware of the allegations of domestic abuse. and there's no tolerance in this white house and no place in america for domestic abuse.

that being said i think the white house hass acknowledged they could have handled it better. lester, when i return to washington, d.c. i'm going to look into the matter and i'll share my accounts with the president directly. >> halle said how come the president is always about a foot outside the loop? he keeps this wonderful little respectful difference from the bad stuff going on, but always comes in a couple of days later and says i'll look into this. his office is really two doors down from the president's oval office. how does he do this? >> and he obviously spends a lot of time over the executive office, too. mike pence is the number two guy in the administration. he's the person the president can't fire when you look at all of this. and i think it's illume negative to look at the vice president's response to what has happen. you mention ashley saying

directly to him, why do you always seem to be out of the loop with these issues? and do think when he says i'm going to go back to give his account on all of this, he is somebody that talks and has allies on the hill, the donor community as well. and the mr. president, this illustrates his comments about porter today. you've seen critics seize on this in particular. the president has repeatedly now shown a pattern to side with his allies. with roy moore, the president saying roy moore denied it, siding with him. >> roger ales as well. >> bill o'reilly is another one. >> let me thank you for that. and by the way, i know you went up to the eagles parade yesterday. and i'm so happy you represented

us. 700,000 people there. thank you so much giving up your day. i want to go to phil rucker of "the post." what about this question, how come you're always about a foot about the loop? >> she does it better than anybody else, but she's out there in south korea trying to keep the vice president accountable. >> thank you. what a great colleague you are. meanwhile the white house staff drama played out n reality game show. omrosa, she once said this about her former boss, trump. >> every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to president trump. it's everyone who's ever doubted donald, who ever disagreed,

whoever challenged him. it is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe. >> in a world -- anyway, that was her then. here she is now. >> should we be worried? >> don't say that because we are worried, but i need you to say no it's going to be okay. >> it's not going to be okay. it's not. >> would you vote for him again? >> god, no. never. in a million years, never. >> from biblical epic down to soap opera. she had now turning a 180 on this guy. >> just a year ago he was the greatest guy on the planet.

omrosa, nice person and she's just trying to sell books. if you're really concerned about what donald trump might do as president you can go find robert mueller. i'm sure he'd like to have a conversation. >> it's something. anyway, we had it in that segment as sort of a comic relief. anyway, it is a grim night at the white house. thanks. we heard from halle jackson, and what a night it's been at the white house. coming up donald trump tries launching yet another smoke bomb on the russia probe even as democrats cause another smoke bomb to fizzle. it comes as wood ward and bernstein write we're on the precipice of another saturday night massacre. plus, is the republican party now hitting a values deficit? the gop has long sold itself as the party of fiscal discipline, family values and law and order. but recent issues call into

question their commitment on all three counts. and steve bannon says his base is starting to question the president's commitment to building the famous wall along the reelo grand. and once trump promised mexico would pay for it. it's friday night and this is "hardball" where the action is. we may be one of the world's most familiar companies, but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. i had a very minor fender bender tonight! in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. but what a powerful life lesson.

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president could miss the context. in the past trump has down-played the importance of an intelligence briefing. he he goes. >> i don't have to be told the same thing in the same way for the next eight years. could be eight years. i don't need that. >> i like the look on his face when the president says i'm a smart person. we'll be right back. mpany. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want.

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welcome back to "hardball." we begin tonight talking about the chaos in the west wing of the white house. of course, meanwhile president trump and his defenders have continued their attempts to cast doubt on the very integrity of the russian probe. and it seems the more allegations they make the faster those allegations are debunk. and now trump has targeted the ranking member of the senate intelligence committee, democratic senator mark warner, in an effort to discredit the investigation he's leading with

his are republican colleague richard burr. it began last night when fox news reported that he had communicated with an russian oligarch lobbyist to make contact with christopher steele. the report faced immediate push back from republican senator mar marco rubio who tweeted senator warner fully disclosed this to the committee four months ago and this had zero impact on our work. despite that president trump seized on that writing this last night. "wow, senator mark warner got caught having expensive contact with a lobbyist for a russian oligarch. warner did not want a paper trail on a private meeting in london he requested with steele of fraudulent dossier fame. all tied into kroocrooked hilla" the president has until tomorrow night to agree or reject it.

meanwhile the number three official at the justice department is stepping down. rachel brand had been a key figure in the russia probe because she was next in line of secession after deputy attorney rosenstein. let me start with david on this because you are an efish nodo of this stuff of wacky ideological behavior on it right. the president every single day seems to get up to find a smoke bomb. to confuse his supporters and actually muddle everything up. and they fizzle in a couple of hours. but he keeps throwing those smoke bombs. >> i would even call them a stink bomb, but they do work to a certain agree.

for the last ethree weeks we've been not talk about the russia investigation but the nunes memo. and they just move from thing to thing. it's one plate of spaghetti to the next. we've seen the head of the cia meeting with russian intelligence chiefs. there's a lot going on there that we're not talking about as much because we're following all the craziness. >> i've tried to keep my eye on the scope. because there's still a question what did the russians do? what did the trump crowd do in helping him, and what's happening right now in 2018? >> let's remember what's really curious about the substance of mark warner. the president criticized him of being in communication with potentially christopher steele. and meanwhile two staffers of nunes actually went to london to search for christopher steele.

my colleague and i were the first to break the news one of those staffers was patel who was controversial in writing the nunes memo. >> who has close ties to the west wing. l everybody thought it was important today, i heard she was getting a job with wal-mart. the important thing is she's not going to be there, i suppose, rachel brand, if the president fires or pushes out rosenstein. your thoughts on this. >> i think we have to be careful about reading too much into it too quickly. she's only been in the ag position for nine months. people leave the government for private sector jobs. is it possible this got sort of expedited because she wasn't looking forward to being in this extremely political controversial role, definitely. and that would be a sad

consequence of what trump is doing the department of justice. >> what are his rights to replace her? >> well, i think he could appoint someone in acting for a while, but eventually that person would have to be confirmed, which would probably be tough for him. >> who would take over if he didn't get someone confirmed from the senate? >> i think -- i mean i think there's a lot of debate about this right now, about what kicks in. but my understanding is there is sort of a line of secession that's written in the regulations right now or by order of previous -- >> who becomes in charge? who's going to be the boss of robert mueller when he comes through reporting late this year or early next year, who's going to be the one who receives it? it's not going to be rachel brand. it's going to be rosenstein unless he gets fired or pushed out. >> we called the justice

department this afternoon and they say he goes to the solicited memo. but there are reports that show the attorneys might -- we don't know who it goes to in terms of being in charge of this investigation. >> okay, he could fire sessions tomorrow. he could fire sessions, rosenstein, anybody who comes in to replace brand, and he could ultimately find a way to fire mueller. >> it's possible the president could appoint someone to step into rachel's spot and that could give the president significant power. a u.s. attorney confirmed or an hhs secretary. and the other part of this is it's long been known in conservative washington legal circles is rachel is someone who could be a strong contender for a federal judgeship or even mentioned her as a potential

supreme court nominee. she's a highly intelligent lawyer. and you don't have to be highly sophisticated to understand that people in the trump administration get their reputations torched. >> the nunes memo, that sort of died, sort of a boring thing. i think it was cooked up by the white house, anyways, like anything nunes does. is trump going to prove it like midnight tonight? that would be the normal way to do the garbage dump. >> i can tell you what i've learned is the democrat's memo actually quotes the fisa warrant application that fbi agents put together. it's really unusual to see text from one of those fisa applications. that's some of the most classified material in the gurmgurm government. the big question is if it comes out is will those lines be redacted or won't they? >> what's the importance of that? >> well, if they're there, then we'll know a lot more about how exactly the fbi asked for

information to surveil carter page. >> it's the latest of a series of institutions, each charge has been quickly debunked than the last. the so-called nunes memo we mentioned alleged wrongful surveillance of carter page, however subsequent reporting revealed serious flaws in their memo. anyway, on wednesday senator ron johnson incorrectly claimed that a text message showed that president obama was involved in hillary clinton e-mail, however, the time line debunked that in hours. and now senator feinstein also -- in which the republican members claim the former fbi

officer lied with contacts with journalists. it also fails fto explain any circumstance that would require mr. steele to speak to the press. i think the whole strategy of the white house, and it's been good. if you get people in enough crazy charges against this probe, you'll get something like an equilibrium. do you believe it or not? and yet none of the charges holds up. they just keep shooting them out there. >> and that's the point. they don't need to win. they don't need to get these referrals. they just need to muddy up the waters and make it seem like this is all about politics. today the house intelligence committee released the transcript of the meeting they had earlier in the week about the democratic memo. the most important thing to me in that is you have democratic saying, you know, to the

republicans, you haven't subpoenaed one piece of information. you have witnesses coming in. you're taking them at their word. you're not taking follow up interviews or subpoenaing them for information. so these house investigations at least are really bogus at this point in time. and we're getting drawn into one mini fake scandal a day. >> miriam, it's good to have you on because you're a prosecutor. my belief is if you have a criminal defendant who'd guilty and you're a defense attorney and you know the man or woman is guilty, you know it, it's obvious, you throw up a lot of nonsensical stuff in defense of the person. you suggest possible theories, suggest alibis, just hoping you'll find one juror that will say, yeah, i guess there's something to that, i guess that's reasonable. it seems to me that's the game that the president's followers are defending. we've got a guilty defend so

we've got to throw up a lot of flack in the air so someone will say that sounds vaguely clear. what is the defense? >> the defense is that he did not do anything, but the defense is whatever he can throw up. and prosecutors when they bring cases to juries in federal court oo say keep your eye on the ball to the jury, use your common sense, you don't throw that out the door. and i think if we could say that it american people now, we would say they're just trying to distract from what's really going on here. and he is fighting this like he's a private citizen who's being sued or being put on a criminal trial. and so what he's doing to defend that my throwing all this stuff up is doing damage to these institutions in a way because he's not a private citizen. he's the president. and so when he puts on this defense this way, he's doing damage in a way that other people, you know, can't do. and it's very dangerous. >> you mean obstructing justice?

>> i mean he's damaging the institutions of the credibility of the department of justice and the fbi, institutions we need to rely on every day to keep our country safe. and he doesn't care the consequence of the accusations he makes. >> thank you so much for coming. you're a great person to have on this show. and it is a national security question with the situation we face right now. the russians got involved in our elections. we'd like to know if any americans played ball with them. that's a simple question. we should get the answer to it. and those who don't want to get the answer to it are not friends of this country. republicans used to back fiscal responsibility, family values and of course law and order. the party seems to have turned all on those guiding principles lately. is president trump to blame? this is "hardball," where the action is. oh! there's one.

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after roughly a year of president trump now, it's been a year, the republican party's met morsis is nearly complete. small government, less taxes, less spend wg the party of the evangelicals, traditionally family values, of course, has been a great marriage for them. let's watch. >> we republicans have been blessed with grass roots supporters who are committed to ideals of individual freedom. family values, free enterprise and a strong america. >> let the other side lidcule family values. i'm talking about work, responsibility, loving thigh neighbor. >> we discovered who we are is more important than what we have and we must renew our values to restore our country. >> we are physical conservers. >> wow, back in 1998 newt

gingrich slammed president clinton, writing, quote, the institution of the presidency has been degrated to the quote, it is roughly the equivalent of the jerry springer show. 30 years later that same party has given up on all those values, instead choosing to give president trump a pass. let's listen to them do it. >> the evangelicals did not vote for donald trump based on his moral qualifications but based upon he said he was going to do and who he was surrounding himself with. we kind of gave him you get a mulligan, you get a do over here. >> anyway, the party includes people like roy moore and a nazi sympathizer running for congressman in illinois. stay tuned.

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i ran for office because i was very critical of president obama's trillion dollar deficits. now we have republicans hand in hand with democrats offering us trillion dollar deficits. i can't in all good honestly, in all good faith just look the other way because my party is now complicit in the deficits. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was of course kentucky senator rand paul last night blasting his own party's flip-flop on deficit spending. it's just part of the republican party's evolution away of what wuss once its core values. writing today, the core mission of the gop is now to defend abusers, noting that the gop at every turn had encouraged trump by refusing to exercise oversight, declining to centur

him and/or attacking the media. just as white house chief of staff john kelly says rob porter is a man of integrity, the republican party praises trump as a successful president, and an adimable leader of the their party. and anne gearrin is white house correspondent for "the washington post". what do you make the of the republican party's fickleness. oh, we're going to give him a mulligan on his behavior. well, clinton never got a mulligan, at least on his misbehavior. your thoughts. >> they're always for tax cuts and they're always for paying for them by cutting domestic programs. they're own fiscally responsible

when the democrats are in power. so there's consistency there. >> they never say deficit unless they have a democratic president. >> well, take rand paul for a minute. i thought he made a great speech there, but he also just voted it the tax cut. that's where most of the money went. what they did on spending is nothing compared to the tax cut. on the family value -- >> we've got some breaking news here from "the washington post." the second white house aide has now resigned amid past domestic abuse allegations which he denies. "the washington post" story write the abrupt departure of david sorrenson comes after allegations he vehemently denied. rather sorrenson said he was the victim of domestic violence. and rob porter departed after two ex-wives said he physically abused them. anne, you've covered this.

i go back pooto tback to the qu of the fbi. especially in the west wing of the white house, in canontact physically with the president, physically, you can walk in the door and then you have to be checked out. why didn't the white house know about all this stuff of this violent behavior of these two officials? >> well, if this current case is like the first one, they did know. they had the fbi material at hand. so the chief of staff and others would have had had that material, the white house chief counsel would have had that material. the question is what did they do with it, and did they consider it in any way a disqualifying event that this guy had been accused of beating up his wife? apparently not. >> well, i would think the felonies would qualify. because assault, battery. we also have more breaking news from the white house. in a letter to the chairman of

the house intelligence committee don megan writes the president will not declassify the memo. quote, although the president is declined to unclassify the february 5th memorandum, because it contains sensitive passages he's unable to do so that this time. however, he says the committee may submit another draft of the memo to consider. >> i think it's a terrible idea. i mean he decided to make public the republican memo, the nunes memo. you know the american people want to know. we already saw the nunes memo, now we wanted to esee the democratic memo, so the american people can judge for themselves. it looks very partisan. it looks terrible for the white house. >> what do you make of the republican party's 90% in favor for trump? they have really fallen in line for this guy. i mean the top people with him on the tax bill, including rand

paul, including two women who were reasonable people like murkowski and collins who use usually hold back. i think they all voted. >> i think it's hard to be conservative in the era of president trump. once i said, look, he is who he is. i don't like his personality or the things he says or his stweets. but for the good of the country i have to look at his policies. and i have to since he became president i support his policies. >> does the end justify the means? >> look, it's washington. >> i'm only asking my question. what's your answer? does the end justify the means? he's the means. >> no, i think -- >> you just said -- >> it's a fair question. if you think i'm supporting a policy, it doesn't mean i'm supporting trump the man. >> but he's your means to getting your policy, you admit it. >> yes, but he's got three years to go. are you saying i should oppose trump at every turn? >> is had a good role model for

people? >> no, he's done damage to the white house just like bill clinton did damage to the white house. >> there is a rationale underlying the family values part. the only thing about the family values part is the abortion issue. so this other stuff doesn't matter as much to them other than that issue and the supreme court justice issue. so i think they care about that -- >> i think they care about other things. >> well, i hope. >> many social conservatives don't like the way trump behaves. when you look at his agenda he's been more conservative than other republican presidents. appointing conservative judges, expanding mexico policy. he's done other things that other republican presidents -- >> for example, two of my sisters were nones who spent their entire lives in poverty teaching kids. i wouldn't generalize about people --

>> religious freedom. >> certainly there are issues beyond abortion that social conservatives care about intensely. but in many of these things that have come just in the last week should come as no surprise, right? the -- the bargain that social conservatives made early on in backing trump was a bargain made in full knowledge, whether you believed his denial or -- or not, that he was accused of grabbing women, right, and bragging about it. and a number of other statements he made during the campaign that showed him to be sort of constitutionally out of step with much of what they believed. and they backed him anyway, in fact, have been among his most enduring and loyal core supporters to this day. and there is reason for that. they are getting what they want. >> conservatives of all kinds, of all stripes going to give barack obama and his family some credit for having a really excellent role model for the

american people. everything about him, a good father, a good husband. maybe he spent two months time with his family, not hanging around with to mean politicians, but he did everything for the good of the country. and no conservative says you know what, he's a liberal, he's african-american, maybe i have a different background than him, but, boy he's been a clean representative. >> i don't know about that. i think there are representatives willing to accept -- >> they accept this mulligan president on everything he does. when are they going to be consistent with their values? >> we've got three more years to go with this president. for the good of this country we can't just oppose him at every single turn. >> so we have to think of the future? >> we've to accept. >> anyway, more breaking news the president will not declassify the rebuttal of the nunes memo. cent, this is shocker. ken dilanian, because you're the

expert on this, why in the world is the president saying i'm going to keep it secret? as alfonso pointed out, americans don't like secrets. >> i'm not shocked by this, chris. it's very clear democrats included some sensitive information in this memo to make the point all the information did not come from the christopher steele dossier. and some of it is troubling some law enforcement intelligence officials. they want to work with it so they can change it so it can still be released bleeding out some of this more sensitive information. >> do you think that's the president's reason? >> i'm sure there are some things that are embarrassing for them and they'd like to use the redaction process to get rid of that, but the democrats are going to fight that hard. it's all part of the push and pull. but when you're dealing with highly classified information, oftentimes it's how it plays out. we saw the senate investigation of cia torture, it took two

years to declassify that report -- >> we can expect ranking member adam schiff from california and the intelligence committee to issue a new version of the memo next week, and that'll set the clock ticking again. is that right? >> yeah, that's our understanding. really the executive branch holds a lot of cards here. congress has to dedefer to them when they say, hey, there's some secrets we need to with hold. the republicans need help to force the president's decision on this. >> some people have pointed out that the republican party even without trump has lost some of its core principles. republicans have been very concerned as i have been growing up with deficits. i worry about how much the government can borrow, how much before it pushes interest rates up and taxes young couples to pay out key bonds for older

owners, and how long can we keep doing that? there's no interest of the republican party about deficits especially under a republican bae president. >> it's over a trillion dollars now. when are they going to start being worried? >> chris, paul ryan has already said the next thing we have to do is get at medicare, medicaid, social security. he's got a plan. >> but to a point you care about -- i didn't like that spending bill. i agree in general with rand paul. but, you know, how do you govern in washington these days when washington is so polarized? and we have the 60 vote in the senate perhaps this is the only way to legislate. >> congressman, thank you for joining us by phone. what do you make of the fact the president is sitting on this

democratic memo? >> good evening, chris. i'm reflexively skeptical as one should be with the president around this investigation. it looks obstructive, but i'm willing to give the department of justice the benefit of the doubt and hear from them if they are going to come in on tuesday and explain to us what their concerns are and that those concerns are not from any pressure that the president has put on them. and if they are legitimate, then we should still release the memo that correct the record but is free from any political omigs r omissions that the president may want to have. >> what do you think of the timing? here he is pulling it after the nightly news, probably going to miss a lot of press coverage by the way they timed this. this is the old garbage dump time of the week. midnight, heading towards midnight on a friday night, that's when you tell people what you don't want them to hear. what do you make of that, congressman? >> in congress we are now in the

position where we must demand that be displayed to public. devin nunes is the one who moved for this to become public. devin nunes should stand on the house floor on tuesday and say to his colleagues to release it. it's now back in our court. we should hear from the department first, but i do suspect knowing this president he may have tried to put political pressure on the department of justice. >> can i trick you into telling me what the most important thing we should read or expect to come from this memo, or you can't tell us? >> i can tell you it shows the arsenal of evidence that went into surveilling carter page nptd of the steele investigation. i think it puts a very accurate time line and it shows or elevates the seriousness of what russia was doing and why we should have been so concerned about who they were working. >> i think that is what people want to know, that this whole thing that was trumped up, literally trumped up, that somehow the only reason they

looked into the russia situation is because of what christopher steele did for the democrats. >> as congressman swalwell said, the democratic memo was supposed to give a longer time line, showed the interest in carter page that predated that episode, and why he in particular was of concern. and he was of concern before this whole thing happened. >> yeah, 2013. >> yeah, exactly. so why was that? and the thing that the trump campaign and now trump administration has never liked is the obvious question that comes next, which is what were they doing hang out with this guy? like why was he a foreign policy advisor if he had these known problems? and why once carter page himself knew that there was a problem afoot and potentially knew that he was under investigation or surveillance, why did he himself not come forward?

>> grzmcongressman, let me ask about that. the fact this memo responding to the nunes memo would clarify the reason that the fbi looked and surveilled basically, carter page -- anything we expect to hear as the final version comes out next week, the revised version of the democratic memo, what else can we expect to learn? >> it was mostly to restore, fairly restore the credibility of the fbi. because they sought to really poison the investigation. this memo of theirs needed an ant dote. the fbi's credibility needed an anticipate dote. and so that's what it did. but, chris, we did something they weren't willing to do. we asked the department to review our memo before it went out. so if this is the department saying they have concerns, then we should be open to addressing them. but i really knowing this president, i have a lot of questions about what his role was in making this decision. >> there's a big story that

broke later today which is you're going to separate the two staffs of the senate and house intelligence committee by a wall. is that because you don't trust the republican staff members on the committee, that they're working with the white house? >> no, we think that would be a terrible decision. this committee has always worked in an open manner. it's been a bipartisan committee. this is something that we understand is being done at the urging of the chairman. and we hope that's not the case. and hell, chris, if we take back the white house you can expect us having to teardown that wall party so we can go back to bipartisanship. >> so you think they're up to something, that they're hiding from you? >> no, i think it's their consistent nature of wanting to not bring us in on this investigation and continue to pursue their own i think obstructive behavior and actions. and so it's unfortunate, but it's not how our committee has ever worked in the past and, you know, hopefully this is only for

the next ten months. >> do you ever sense the has failed to work effectively with the fbi that they don't trust their own employees, that they haven't acted on that information brought to them? >> you know, my colleague shawn maloney, who was a staff secretary for bill clinton, he's sent and sent to our oversight committee concerns about not just mr. porter but there's been concern from 30 or 40 individuals who -- >> thank you, congressman. i want to hear from eric swalwell and what he had to say. thank you all for coming. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. we were in love. >> they were so happy at first sharing a lovers perch high atop