vehicle noing what we believe was a medical facility after his initial booking. but there you have it, again, a 1-year-old man who thought today would be a good day to open fire on high school students and teachers at this high school in florida. the 7:00 p.m. eastern time hour has arrived which means it's time for us to toss to chris matthews in washington and chris, i've been thinking today about places like columbine and places like newtown and now parkland. great places to live but these names will always be associated with tragedy and that city you're in, washington, if but match it against public opinion polls of their constituents, lawmakers in that city are failing american people every day. >> thank you so much, brian. that is the question so much about american exceptionalism is wonderful. how different we are from the rest of the world is wonderful. the country of opportunity and true freedom.

and in this part of the american exceptional story isn't so easy to sell to the rest of the world. we are the only country, brian, that has columbine and virginia tech and, of course, sandy hook. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. we're following the latest on that horrific scene at a high school in florida where 17 people were shot and killed. broward county sheriff scott israel briefed reporters during the last hour. let's listen to the sheriff. >> it's horrible, it's catastrophic. and the -- sad to say 17 people lost their lives. nikolaus, n-i-k-o-l-a-s-cruz was the killer. he is in custody. we've already began to dissect his web sites and the social media he was on and some of the things that have come to mind are very disturbing. >> reporter: did he have wounds,

injuries. >> what can you tell us about him? he may be a former student? >> he's 19 years old. he was born in 1998 in september. he was a former student of douglas high school. he got expelled for disciplinary reasons. i don't know the specs. i think he might have surfaced at terra vella high school. we're trying to confirm that. this morning when he woke up, whether he was a student i don't know. he had multiple magazines. at this point, we believe he had one ar-15 rifle. we have 17 confirmed victims. 127 victims within the building. two of victims are outside just outside the building. one victim is on the street at the corner of pine island and two folks, people lost their lives at the hospital. >> well, gunfire broke out this afternoon at marjory stoneman

douglas school in parkland about 45 miles from miami this afternoon sending students running into the streets. first responders swarm add the scene. amateur video showed students in the school hiding as gunshots could be heard nearby. we should warn voour viewers this video is very dramatic. >> holy -- >> [ gunfire ] >> oh, my god! [ screaming ] . >> oh. anyway, adding to the confusion there, the fire alarm went off shortly before gunfire went out. here's one eyewitness report. >> when the fire alarm rang at 2:19, nobody expected anything was going to happen. oh, someone pulled the alarm. we were walking out of class casually. our teacher was like leave the stuff in the room. somehow i grabbed my backpack and thank god i did because i had all my stuff in it. we had no clue anything would be

a shooting. as soon as we starred seeing people running, we knew we've got go. by him pull the fire alarm, that was his escape. for the kids in the freshman building, i prayed for every kid that got hurt. their families. i hope everyone's okay. no one like anything serious. i hope everyone's okay. i go to school with these kids every day. i'm shocked. i don't know how long it's going to last. i still can't believe i got out. i'm just blessed that i was able to get out. for everyone else, i hope everyone else is going to be okay. >> the suspect was apprehended and taken into custody near the scene about three-quarts of a mile from the school. i'm joined by tammy leitner on the ground if parkland, florida. it looks like and i dil lick school, a great place to go to school with some diversity. everybody is dressed in casual clothes. the weather looks perfect. hell broke loose. your reporting has been powerful. >> chris, i can tell you this is

a fantastic neighborhood from everybody i've spoken to. people love it here and people are heart broken and shocked. one thick tell you is we have seen parents showing up all afternoon. parents like amos fernandez. he tells me he has still not been reunited with his daughter. is that correct? >> yes, my daughter called me about like a quarter after 2:00 and said something bad happened at school. of course, i got worried. i was working. i told my boss i need to go. i came here. i'm still waiting for her. we haven't talked to her on the phone. but she says she's inside the school still she's on the way back home. >> she's with police and being interviewed by them but she is safe. that's correct. >> she is safe. >> you know she's okay. >> has she told you anything about what happened? >> no, she hasn't called me.

she said daddy, there was a shooting in school and looks like something is very, very bad. they was going away with a bunch of people. and then basically that's what she told me. when i came here, i found there was other people here and stuff. i don't know how many or what the situation is now. just waiting for her so we can go back home and my daughter is safe. >> reporter: one last question for you. we now know there are 17 people that died in this school shooting. > oh, my god. >> it's been hours. what is it like not being able to hug your daughter, not being able to see her? >> it's a terrible feeling. the worst feeling i've ever had in my entire life. one of the reasons i moved to coral springs is to live here. my daughter was born in connecticut. one of the reasons i came to coral springs because of the school this is really, really

good school. >> very good neighborhood. i hope very soon you'll be reunited with your daughter. thank you for speaking with us. >> i want to take my daughter safe to home. and you know, tell her that i love her very much. >> give her a hug. thank you very much. hopefully that will happen very soon. >> i appreciate it. >> reporter: as you can see, hours and hours and hours after this happened, parents are still here still hoping to hug their children and see them and squeeze them and it's very emotional time for a lot of parents out here. chris? >> tami, i noticed notice police procedure, it may be a regimental reason to do it, but they had all the students there drop their packs. kids today carry all their books in bags, they don't go to lockers anymore. they had to separate their packs and leave them in a big pile on ground. what was that about? do we know what that procedure was about? >> reporter: i can tell you what most likely it was about. we know they wanted to make sure the shooter was not there

amongst the students. we know also that this student came. the shooter nikolaus cruz came in with quite a few magazines. so they were probably going through there to make sure there were not any explosives or anything. i can tell you hours and after hours after the school has already been cleared, the bomb squad is going back through the school and clearing it yet again to make sure there's no explosives or anything left in the school. >> thank you so much. nbc's tammy lightner. tom costello has more on the gunman. what do we know? >> 19 years old, nikolaus cruz is his name. he was viewed by many as somebody who was volatile who, had some preoccupation with guns and-posted that preoccupation online. he was identified by the school last year as being somebody who might be a threat and in fact was expelled from the school last year because he was viewed as a threat. but in many ways, he fits this demographic. he fits this m.o., if you will,

of suspects we have seen time and time and time again involved in not only school shootings but mass shootings. in the case of school shootings, too often a white male, a boy, a teenage boy or a 20 something boy who is disenfranchised. the fbi profilers will tell you very often they're disenfranchised cut off for whatever reason from the other students. maybe it's bullying, maybe it's social awkwardness, maybe a relationship they wanted to pursue with some girl that didn't work out. for whatever reason they turn to violence, they turn to dark violence and video games or on the internet. that seems to be what has played out here again today according to people who knew him and according to at least one teacher who said that he was a threat to other students last year. chris, i looked up, god, i hate doing this because we do this and report on these mass killings and think this can't have happened again. let me run through the numbers,

las vegas massacre, how easily we forget. 59 people killed there. the orlando nightclub massacre, 49. virginia tech, 32. newtown school shooting, that was 27. you remember the southerland springs church shooting last year in texas in november, 25 died. columbine. colorado, my hometown, 13 dead there. that was 19 years ago. this according to bill bratton the former nypd commissioner is another example of how the country seems to have this sick preoccupation with guns. it manifests itself into these really terrible mass shootings. >> we've talked about criminal situations where all it takes is motive and opportunity. that's the questions that are asked in a courtroom. you talked about the possible motive, disenfranchised, anger, a sense of being outside the incrowd, whatever it is. what about the opportunity, open carry state florida. how hard is it to get an ar-15

semi-automatic weapon with multiple magazines, ammunition magazines? how hard is it for a person? is it simply a retail operation, you go in with the cash, you buy it. >> a lot of states do i have open carry laws. let me make clear my comments about the preoccupation with guns pap that's not my view necessarily. that is the view of many in many law enforcement who say in the wrong hands, in the hands of somebody who is unstable, it can become as we have seen time and time again a sick preoccupation. i'm from colorado. i've been around people who were hunting all my whole life. my own family hunting. but what's happened now in terms of these individuals who seem to turn to these mass killing machines and mowing down people in schools in, calf tier "yaz," in churches, at rock concerts or country music concerts really has taken on a life of itself. >> thank you so much. tom costello for nbc news.

joining us right now is senator bill nelson of florida. senator, pren says in these situations don't talk politics. talk about prayer and talk about thoughts. this is the only instance in which we do talk about guns. what is your reaction to the use of guns by this shooter? all these people dead. he had an ar-15, multiple magazines. what do you make of that situation? >> i want to answer that specifically but let me give you some new information. he wore a gas mask and smoke grenades. he set off the fire alarm so the kids would come out into the hallways. and thus, he had the opportunity with a crowded hallway to start picking off people. and again, it illustrates the horror as tom just outlined. you know, pulse nightclub was

just a couple of years ago, 49. 59 in las vegas. when is this going to stop? so your question is the politics. it's not going to stop until the american people say enough is enough. and when is that going to occur? remember a year ago, two years ago, we tried something that was common sense. it was senator feinstein's bill. and it was, if you're on the terrorist watch list, you can't buy a gun. and chris, we couldn't get that passed. so i don't know what it's going to take for enough to be enough. >> let me ask you about the timing of this. what is this about valentine's day, ash wednesday? have we got any word, i guess it's early to tell, why this day? one thing commissioner bratton talked about is the one person

who had this day organized was the shooter, everybody else was oprying in confusion and surprise. one person knew the ammo, how many magazines he would bring, what rifle he was going to have, when he was going to do it, set off the alarm to bring people out for his targets. he had it all planned. why today. >> do we know why this wednesday at the beginning of lent? >> no, we don't. if that ends up being a factor it shows all the more how this is a sick guy. and, of course, when you approach these things mental health always plays in it. and that's something we're going to have to confront, as well. >> senior senator from florida, of, bill nelson. joining us right now is christine chop ski, mayor of parkland, florida. tell us about your town and your attitude towards guns. i don't want to push any harder than it's obviously in front of

us again, the use you have guns by someone who knows how to use a semi-automatic, has access to the ammunition and has a motive. >> right. well, chris, our city here is a very small city. we're a very tight knit community, very family oriented community. so this was quite a shock to all of us that this happened here today. but i think as we're seeing in the country, this is something these days that can happen anywhere. >> right. what do you think the reaction is to this now? because here he is. shooting these people at random apparently. an angry student kicked out of the school apparently recently. but the pat certain is, as the senator and others have been saying and tom costello, there's a profound pattern now, angry student, not one of the incrowd like in column brian, gets together maybe by himself. starts sending the word i'm going to get even with society because they haven't allowed me

in. i've been treated as an joust cast. we see this pattern in every case practically. the only thing that can control this is who gets guns. do people liking this get guns? that's all we can control. we can't control people having attitudes hike this. it seems to be impossible. >> i did not know the student. several of the students saying they were familiar with the student. as far as why he did what he did, i don't have any information on that. >> let me ask you about, looking at these pictures, it looks lake like a wonderful place to go to school. >> it is. >> the kids are casual dressed and look the way most kids would love to go to school in shorts and casual wear and they all seem -- their backpack these days. it just seems like great. to go to school there.

>> right. >> well, it is. it's a great school. it's a large school, over 3,000 students. the schools down here in florida, i don't know if you're familiar with our system are run by the county. it's a broward county school. it's a great school. i was just there this weekend. they were hosting a debate tournament and i was judging at the tournament this weekends. it's a very community oriented school, lots of clubs. audie verse types of clubs can, all diverse types of activities. it is a great place to go to school. >> mayor, it's great to have you on. thank you so much. god bless your town getting through this. christine of parkland, florida. sean hennry former fbi assistant director and jim cavanaugh former atf special agent and nbc news law enforcement analyst. thank you sean and jim. the pattern is so strong. tell us both of you about this pattern that tom costello talked

about a few moments ago, the pattern of the shooter. >> tom's talking about a young guy, teenager early 20s. disenfranchised. somebody who has access to weapons and certainly is motivated. there's some triggering factor somewhere along the way. those are the same types of characteristics we see in gang members. we see in people who become radicalized. it appears that anytime we have a violent incident, there's a same similar fact pattern, somebody who is shunned, they turn to a different order to try and be inspired. they're looking for a way to let out their aggression. in this case, this is what we see here this vi leapt shooting where somebody walks into a school and shoots dozens of people. i think the pure motivation in this particular incident, it's going to take a few dayses for that to come out. law enforcement will be doing a lot of interviews, a lot of those kids that were in the school who may have known him will be interviewed. certainly they're going to try

to interview the suspect here in this case. when we finally determine what the motivation was, we'll be able to come to a better conclusion. this is, chris, far too many, far too often, far too much for our society. >> what about background checks? i don't want to sell any prescription. if you had background checks, would that even screen out someone like that? obviously, they went into a gunshop, they would look normal, won't be sweating and look hyperactive. they would be smart enough to come in in a calm manner. how would they give off signals we're talking about? >> there are multiple ways to obtain weapons. there are legal ways and there are illegal ways. we heard senator nelson talk about recently legislation that did not get passed that suggested that you wouldn't be able to buy a firearm if you were on the terrorist watch list. so the vetting process, it depends on what the criteria are. what are you putting in to insure those that are authorized to legally carry weapons have

access to them and those that pose a risk to the broader society are weeded out. that's a long question. it's going to be society, the being involved, law enforcement agencies, am deemia. there's a lot that needs to go into make those determinations and enforce them. >> jim, if you look at the variety of people in their lives this this country, some people do not have happy lives. they don't get along with their parents. their parents are not good parents. all kinds of bad things can happen. you don't fit in with other people. that's always going to happen. there's always a certain percentage of kids not in the crowd. you can't weed them out. if you have guns available, there's going to be fairly predictably incidents like columbine, sandy hook and now parkland. what makes anybody think this isn't going to stop?

>> it's not going to stop unless we as voters, you want to change it for many reasons, not only gun safety laws but mental health, restraining orders, maybe mass violence prevention restraining orders as a suggest. i call it the tragedy triangle. my own view of it, after dealing with all my life. there's some kind of a mental episode that concerns someone. then there's firearms. and then there's some kind of a threat or interaction with the police. i call it the tragedy triangle. we see that. this guy's walking around like he's got a suction cup with a revolving warning light on his head. he's telling students he might shoot up the school. we just witnessed on brian's hour just before a witness said the bodies were all over the third floor. this guy pen trayed up to the third floor. the sheriff said had he

countless and multiple magazines. so we got a guy with countless multiple magazines, he's penetrated up to the third floor killing at will. and he was known to be a person to pay attention to. this is our own societal failure that we're not doing something, electing the people who will do something. you know, the argument that gun safety laws don't work has -- it's jump "shark week." it's gone. look at these mass killings. that argument is gone. we need to have reasonable laws, not take away anybody's rights. of's got to work together or we make the second amendment a suicide pact for all of us, our children, the mall, the school, the college. this is crazy. we can do better. and you know, we're going to see. you're a political expert. we're going to see, i guarantee we're going to see nothing. >> that's what i think. the reason is, i want to get back, you seem like you've

thought about this a lot. this is the problem that i think we face. we love the american character, the cowboy in us. all of us love the cowboy. we love to drive our cars out on the open road, live in our own house. we love the independence, that sense of the cowboy spirit and the one downside of that is guns. not rifles or pistols. semi-automatic weapons, capable of killing people by the dozens. that's what's new and unique to us today. i go back to sean. the motive of somebody obviously a bit deranged in most cases we don't know in this case who has a point of view and desire for revenge against society and this bait to shoot people by the dozens. that's the new fact. can we keep those kinds of weapons capable of automatic or semi-automatic bang, bang, bang, bang kind of shooting out of the hands of people like this. i'm wondering if we can ever solve this. jim thinks we can. can we? >> he didn't say we can. i think he said we can't.

what do you think? >> i think it's going to take a lot of will by a lot of people. when you go back and tom costello did this earlier and recounted going back to columbine over 20 years all of the mass shootings we've seen, we are 20 years past columbine and we're still, i heard elected officials say today we need to do something about this. if elected officials get on national television and say we need to do something about this they're the ones who can start that debate. if 20 years after columbine we're still saying we need to do something, maybe this goes on indefinitely. >> there's only a few states where people seem to be gung ho about gun control. we'll talk to a senator from that state in a moment. thank you, sean hennry and jim cab gnaw. we just got a tweet from howard county superintendent of schools robert runcy. today we're experiencing the worst of humanity as an unspeakable tragedy has hit our

broward school family at marjory stoneman douglas high school. there has been a shooting on campus with i don't remembers and fatalities. we are working with law enforcement as we pray for our babies and families. 17 dead. senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. you represent a state serious about gun control. we have 50 states. as bill nelson said, he said the country has to change. my question is, the country's a bit ahead of the politicians in every poll. it's about the passion of the gun people, the second amendment people that many scares the heck out of the politicians from many of the states to do anything. >> and the key is, chris, to make sure the majority of the american people are reflected in what happens here in congress. connecticut has among the strongest gun violence prevention laws in the country, a ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines. strict background checks. and other steps. but we are really at the mercy

of other states with weaker gun control laws because weapons will come across state boundaries. the state lines are porous. there is a pattern. you're absolutely right. young alienated isolated males using automatic weapons to shoot in schools and churches. but we may be the country with the highest death rate from gun violence but we have no higher rate of mental illness. we need to address mental illness for sure. still, there are laws that work and connecticut has shown it because our death and casualty rate from gun violence has come down. >> what happened after sandy hook? was there a determination by people who were on the border or on the fence regarding gun control? was there a heightened concern about guns or did it fade with the news? i'm afraid these stories fade with the news and people go

yeah, i really care and tomorrow i care about russia influencing our elections or about the economy whereas the gun people never change their focus ever. the second amendment people. therefore, they run the show. >> the nra and gun lobby try to mobilize single issue voters with great effect. but sandy hook really transformed connecticut. in fact, these images particularly the aerial pictures bring back so many gut wrenching and heart breaking memories of sandy hook when our stomachs were in our throats with grief and shock. ins of students fleeing the scene of this violence, patients searching for children. indeed, connecticut was affected by sandy hook. and we are approaching i hope the tipping point when you're nation will be affected and congress will be mobilized by

these same kinds of images and the fact that 90 people every day perish everybody gun violence. it isn't just the mass shootings. this one is the 18th school shooting just this year. but also the day by day deaths that are preventable and we have an obligation to prevent congress has been complicity. congress bears responsibility. >> when you speak to someone even those on your side of the aisle, the democratic side from rural states and you bring this up with them, do they say you know, dick, there's nothing we can do it aboabout it? they'll say about matthews why are you talking about it? when the hell are you supposed to talk about? the only time you can talk about gun violence is when have you it in your face. nobody wants to talk about gun violence in america at anytime. especially when it's hot. let me ask you, do your fellow senators really believe in free fire zones in terms of it

everybody having a gun, open carry, the wild west? do they believe that's the way to have a society in the 21st century? do they say that to you in the back room? >> nobody is in favor of gun violence. what's needed is the political backbone to stand up to the gun lobby. there are hopeful signs. i've introduced with a number of my republican colleagues and democrats a modest exceedingly modest measure to improve the background check system that we have right now. we need to extend it to all gun sales. at least the reporting of criminal convictions and restraining orders and other incidents that should be reported to the background check can be improved. we're going to be working to make that happen and trying to take advantage of these breaks if the wall that we see that the gun lobby has erected against gun violence common sense measures against gun violence that we can enact. >> what do you think of your

colleagues and others in the media, for example, who, when they hear about these situations they watch what we're watching right now, 17 killed by beak an amateur with a semi-automatic weapon with multiple magazines. am mew mission magazines doing because he'sup set, whatever, emotionally disturbed. then they say our prayers and thoughts are with the families having done nothing. >> prayers and thoughts are appropriate. ours go out to the community in florida, parkland that has suffered this incredibly tragic horror. but prayers and thoughts are not enough. we need action. and my colleagues who will blame it all on the mental illness involved i think are shirking that responsibility. and the second amendment, a law

ener, enenforcer but common sense measures consistent with the second amendment are absolutely acceptable under our laws and i think these excuses for failing to move forward are reprehensible. it makes congress complicity in these deaths. >> you're going back to the floor tomorrow. you're a senator and a great one. do you expect any action on gun control? >> not tomorrow because we're going to be dealing with the need to protect the dreamers against mass draconian deportation. i am going to be pushing this issue. i already have spoken on the floor, in fact, just a couple of hours agoing about this tragedy. and my hope is that we can break through this complicity and the kind of unconscionable inaction we've seen from congress because we need people of moral strength who stand up to the gun lobby and say, enough is enough.

>> thank you so much. u.s. senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. we now continue to monitor the situation down in parkland, florida. 17 people confirmed dead. there may be more by tonight. the suspect remains in custody. we're joined by brandon odoy, nbc producer for the latest on the ground down there. tell us what you know we don't know yet. >> well, the harrowing stories of those who is survived this research continuing to pour out. a young man i know personally i spoke to his father this evening. he's at home just recuperating. but he's dealing with the shock of having told his teacher, his instructor back into the classroom and holding the door closed and another young man was beating down the door but unfortunately, he couldn't open the door for the safety of those inside. and that young man unfortunately was shot at. there's no confirmed on his status.

it's one of those situations where he's just traumatized right now. and these are the sorts of stories that are coming out here as families are reuniting with their children and everybody's just trying to wrap their minds around what happened in this affluent neighborhood in south florida. >> brandon what, we've been able to piece together so far, that the shooter got up to the third floor and was just mowing people who would come out to respond to the fire alarm. >> yeah, and you have the freshman building. the young man whose father i spoke to, the thing that was so touching about what he was telling me in his account is how many bodies that his son had to go over on the way out of the building. so this was one of the largest high schools in this area. and it's one of those situations where it's just truly unfortunate and tragic. and what struck me as the parents were picking up their

children earlier today as they were being released finally everyone lockdown even at the middle school next door was kids coming out with flowers and roses. you kind of almost forget, this was the valentine's day. this was a day of love and celebration for their horrific event to happen is just not what everybody was expecting. >> thank you so much. let's go to tammy lightner talking to students at the school. tami, tell us, introduce us to those students. >> reporter: and do you know were any of your fellow students shot? >> we really can't confirm if they were. but we have one friend that we haven't heard from. we are praying. we are definitely praying for the best and hoping for the best at this point he's with us in our prayers all the time. >> reporter: so sorry, guy i don't think we have any other questions at this point. ask my producers to see if they

have anything. >> thank you, tommy. tammy leitner with the students there. frank feg lew zi, former assistant director for counter intelligence at the fbi and national security analyst. thank you, so much for coming in. i don't know what to say. this is happening again and again uniquely in this country, the pattern is motive, someone very much alienated, angry at society. high school is tough. with the availability of semi-automatic weapons and multiple ammunition, multiple and munition of magazines, it's fairly easy to put it together and one person did today. frank? >> chris, i want to talk to everybody out there who is wondering what they can do. we've certainly got into the gun control issue. and people need to work that out. that rests largely with congress. i want to talk to folks who say i want something to do now. it's time to start equipping our

teenagers, our loved ones with the skill sets to recognize the warning signs and indicators. if you've got a teenager at home who is exhibiting the following behaviors, the corporations teach these behaviors to employees to prevent workplace violence. it's time for parents and schools to do it. if you've got a teenager who is brooding and obsessing incessantly about a single issue and can't move off of it, and then you combine that with odd obsessive or even scary drawings and writings and internet search histories about violence, talking about hurting himself or others, using the language of despondency, helplessness, i can take it anymore, there's no way out for me, you've got to step up. teach your kids to watch those signs in their friends and in their loved ones. then step up and do something about it because there's a myth out there that people just snap. but history and research of all these citizens show us that's

not true. there are warning signs and indicators. we need unfortunately to start equipping our kids with that and teaching those warning signs and indicators in our schools. >> well, the situation here, he is stockpiling ammunition, got a semi-automatic rifle. those are pretty stark warning signs. i don't think it takes advice to parents to know that's a problem. shouldn't they already know that? >> well, so there will be an investigation as to how he accessed this weapon, how he was allowed to get all those magazines and the ammunition and obviously someone will be held accountable for that. we're hearing this school expel this had former student for disciplinary reasons. so do schools wash their hands at that point? do they alert other nearby schools because we heard the sheriff say it's possible, not confirmed yet that the student had moved on to yet another school. do they share information as they would on teachers who abuse kids? we need to look at that system of washing your hands of a student and letting them go, as

well. >> what are the civil liberties restrictions on that? it makes perfect sense. at some point are you allowed to surveil people like that that are troubled. a lot of the kids don't fit in and reach the point of getting gun. that is the breaking point. you can look for signs prior to that. >> yeah, there's no question it's proven that people aren't just snapping. if you study and believe me the secret service and fbi have studied every one of these incidents and there were always similar warning signs and indicators right down to the sites they search on the internet and music that's listened to. we need to teach that to educators, counsellors and step up. with regard to warning other schools in the area, they do it for pedophile teachers. there's a system in place for pedophile priests. when someone has mental health issues and poses a danger to others there needs to be a database in the school district that cautions the surrounding schools. >> you're going to start something with that. thank you, frank.

stay with us tonight. u.s. congresswoman debbie wasserman-schultz represents a neighboring district. a big fan of yours. i'm glad you're on tonight but not for this reason. >> me either, chris. thank you. >> what's your reaction? >> well, chris, you've met my youngest daughter. she's a ninth grader at a broward county high school. we live just to the south of parkland. and doug lease high school that's a rival of our high school. i've been therein so many times. i have friends whose children go to school there. this is just, i mean, i'm actually nauseous even talking about this. it's hard for us to wrap our minds around the fact that this happened in our community. there's countless communities it happens in. so tonight i'm just -- i'm a mom tonight. i'm you know, someone who lives

and works and spends time with the people who have lived through this. and it's just absolutely heart breaking. i've spoken to our superintendent, to the sheriff. my best friend is a county board member. this hits home hard. it does. >> what is your feeling as a political figure? a leader in fact about gun control on this point? because if we were having a situation today where a kid, an 18 or 19-year-old in this case, nikolaus cruz, the alleged assailant had thrown dynamite sticks into the windows of a school would say keep the sticks away from kids against people that shouldn't have them. when it comes to guns, it's their sacred right to have a gun stopping us from doing anything about this. you know we're going to go through this again in a couple months. some other school will act shocked. we'll talk about prayer which we should. in the end we'll know why it happened. it's possible in there country, in fact, plausible it will happen fairly regularly.

>> no, you're damn right, chris. and it's absolutely not too soon to yet again say that something has to be done about access to guns in this country. but just as important, something has to be done about making sure that people who have mental health challenges get the help that they need. i mean, this was a young man from the conversations i've had with folks at home today who you know, there are always those kids at schools who other kids say you know, if someone's going to come and shoot up the school, had has the kid that would do it. that's what people said about this young man and i mean, there are lots of psas out there now that say if you see something, say something. you should reap out if you have a concern about someone, we need to make sure we can get resources to young people and then make sure that they can get the help they need.

we have to address the inability for us to once and for all get guns and keep them from the hands of people who shouldn't have them. >> hang on there congresswoman. frank feg lew zi has just brought up that issue. let's have colloquy between the two of you. frank talk to her what you think should be done in terms of national policy to alert people to people with real emotional problems that look to be dangerous, potentially murderous and what we can do about spotting them and helping them before they hurt people? >> i think there's two actions here. one is the sad state we find ourselves in where we have to begin as part of a curriculum in school teaching teachers, counselors and students to recognize the warning signs and indicators of potential violence amongst their peers, amongst their classmates. the second thing is ensure that schools don't expel a student for serious violent tendencies and just wash their hands of it.

rather a database within a school district be created so there is a caution, a flag that allows the student not to be passed on to yet another school. >> congresswoman, your reaction to that as public policy. >> on the first point, i could not agree with you more. we do need to make sure just like our school district has active shooter training and make sure that kids and teachers know what to do in the event of an active shooter, we have need to make sure that teachers and kids in school know the warning signs know what he to look for and see something, say something program so that we can get kids help and keep people from being in harm's way. but let me just make sure on second point that i caution here that we don't know what the reason was that this young man was expelled and we also don't know, there are alternative schools we have in broward county for troubled youth and we're not 100% sure what school this young man was attending. but you know, so before we

prejudge what happened in this case, we shouldn't jump to conclusion buzz we definitely, you're right, need to make sure that we have -- we don't want to just throw kids like this in the trash and say and wipe our hands of them. we need to get them into programs that can get them the help they need and get them back on track. we are so woefully inadequate in this country and have pitiful funding that unfortunately keeps getting cut after cut after cut. unaccept credible. >> thank you debbie wasserman-schultz, nearby congressional and frank figliuzzi for the wonderful thinking. we're joined by ashley check, whose mother survived the mass shooting at sandy hook in 2012. she's in a group called every town for gun safety. art you ever, said politics is essentially a learning profession. are we learning? >> or are we constantly shocked

by these matt mass shootings? i can remember going back to the university of texas shooting from the texas tower the first i heard of a school shooter. your thoughts? >> what i can say is the american people are fed up. and whether or not the elected officials are representing those feelings of the american people is still to be determined. we have some incredible gun sense champions. you had senator blumenthal on earlier who has been a champion for gun sense measures for quite some time. what i can say is people ask me all the time, why was nothing -- why was sandy hook not the tipping point? why was nothing done. i would say that there have been so many things done. you just have to be looking in the right places. and we've seen the founding of incredible organizations like the one i'm working with every town for gun safety and moms demand action for gun sense in america. these are organizations that have volunteers all over the country who are storming their

state houses and taking their voices to make sure that elected officials are hearing them. and so i would say that american premium absolutely fed up and we're starting now to hold our elected officials accountable for that. >> what stops the process of this horror once a person has a mental or emotional attitude or a point of view and wants to be vengeful on his fellow students or former fellow students and wants to get a gun and has the gun, once somebody has stockpiled his ammo and has his semi-automatic rifle and has reasonable ability with that gun, they walk into a school and at what point can that process be stopped? that's what i want to know? how do you stop this from happening again and again, what we're watching? >> in the case of sandy hook school, we know that a background check wouldn't have necessarily stopped that shooting. that doesn't mean we don't keep fighting for things like that. and what we know to be true is

when you advocate for common sense gun soft legislation that has been proven to save lives, those things work. and we know that to be true. so just as we -- just as having seat belts in cars doesn't prevent every single death in an automobile accident, you know, we have to to continue advocating for laws that we know are proven to work. and background checks are one of those things. people ask me about that with sandy hook all the time. all i can say is that even if it hadn't made a difference at sandy hook, i know it will make a difference someplace else. we need to do everything we canning to prevent this from happening. that looks different in different places. >> back in the 1930s, the country before we had the nra like today, we got rid of automatic weapons. no more tommy guns. we saw the criminals use them in chicago and places like that, all the bad guys had tommy guns. we said outlaw them and they did. you're not supposed to have a tommy gun now.

why can't we go further to semi-automatic weapons because they can made into automatic weapons easily. >> i'll just say what i said again. we know that we work our organization every town for gun safety works on priorities that we know are proven to reduce gun violence and save lives in the most effective way possible. and what we know that is the most effective way to do that is to have background checks on trey gun sale in the country which is not the law federally. that is what our organization is working for is for measures that we know are going to make a difference. >> yeah, people like the president say, and he has a right to say it, if you had a person in a school with a gun or a teacher in a gun sore body in a theater with a gun, they could stop the bad guys. that person with the gun you have to know is of sound mind and has ability to use that gun and they don't want to have that check. they don't want to have that person checked out. there's no reasonable assumption that the other person with the gun will be any better than the

first person with the gun. your group is called every town for gun safety. tammy leitner talked to students at school when the shots rang out. we have some of the videotape right now. >> tell me what happened. >> well, you know, the fire alarm was pulled. it was like suspicion because we already had a fire drill that day. we did what we usually do. we went outside, just went to the designated area. and while we were doing that, we heard pop, pop. everybody was like no it was just firecrackers. i was like no, those are gunshots. immediately i changed my whole mood and started running. i met up with my friend hector. we're like brothers, we've got go. >> it's a sound that will replay in himy head. you're not supposed to hear it. at that point, you knew it was a serious time. there wasn't time to joke around or play. it was time to get out of there

and get your friends out, too. >> that's tappy lightner. in this case with a couple of students at marjory stoneman douglas high school today during the shooting. tonight i'm joined with a long list of tragic school shootings. columbine, virginia tech, sandy hook as well as a community college in rose berg, oregon. i'm joined by matt bennett, co-founder of third way and the founder and director of americans for gun safety. anita cume mar from mclatchy and everyone what, do you think? i think the first question you expect any legislation to result from you this? >> probably not. i work very closely with the sandy hook promise families a month after the tragedy when they came down here. what i told them now and the case today, the likelihood is that congress won't do anything. there's been two moments in all of history where congress has taken action against guns. one was 196 after the

assassinations of king and kennedy, the other in 1992. that was the brady act and the crime bill. >> that's the only time i ever wrote a congressman, after bobby was shot. i just was angry. johnny carson who was not very political went on television that night and said you got to write your congressman. it was so powerful. the guy was never political. when the nonpolitical people get involved, maybe something will happen. >> the thing about both cases is the democrats controlled both houses of congress and the white house. that's the only time we've had action. right now they control nothing. republicans seem to be in the pocket of the nra. not likely anything is going to come from this. >> matt is being optimistic by saying probably. no way. i'm going to bring you closer to the last year. it was the shooting was in las vegas was in october. and everybody, republicans, democrats, the speaker said we will do something bandage bump stocks. remember that? hasn't happened. >> made semi-automatics into

automatics. >> nothing's happened. atf was supposed to examine things and i think two months later had he said we're starting our investigation. let's remember last year that one of their own, a lawmaker, a member of the house was shot. members were shout. >> at a baseball game, practice game. >> nothing's happened. if it didn't happen in this last year or after sandy hook, there's just no way sue clarence, there's sort of a conspiracy of stupidity on this. if you bring the issue up tonight as i've been doing it, people say why are they bringing it up? they're exploiting the situation. when are you supposed to bring it up? it's the crazyist thing in the world. >> that's part of the ritual. after the tragedy, people say don't talking about now. >> don't politicize it. this is not the time. let's get serious. it was demoralizing for everybody after sandy hook that nothing happened. that just took the air out of the movement for good sense as

far as i'm concerned. >> how about reagan? reagan being shot by a mentally deranged guy. everybody knew his condition. he was doing it to impress a movie star. he was totally loony behavior and the conservatives who loved reagan, did nothing. >> yeah. >> even reagan didn't do anything. >> we can do anecdotes for days. reagan did a lot about gun safety in california when the black panthers walked into the state legislature. >> that was a social issue then. >> there are times when americans do come together around common sense. right now, most americans say we ought you to have background checks. so why don't we have any? because we are so divided right, left, whatever. this is where. >> what is the argument against background checks? the person who is a criminal. bobby kennedy once said you could order on death row, you could order a gun and least get to the prison. they won't let you have it. >> you could. >> there is no honest argument against background checks.

they take less than two minutes. most are 90 seconds. >> would it catch an angry kid? >> it's not clear. we don't note of anything about his background. if he had any misdemeanor, domestic violence, restraining order it, might. >> the police can do something if you've done something wrong. we obviously respect civil liberties. if a person's angry, you don't put them in jail for being angry. they can say everybody hates me in the lunchroom. nobody invites me to parties. how do you know? frank feg lew zi said there's a point where you break before the final act. how do you stop the person at that the point. >> we both raised kids. they know what's going on. at columbine, sandy hook. those kids knew that these boys were troubled. >> but there's a lot of people like that that don't go out and shoot people. >> that's right. that's why we need a more sophisticated way of being able to intervene in the lives of

these youksters before they turn violent. >> suppose there's a kid on social media, i want to get those kids who won't let me sit at their table or whatever the hell is. high school can be rough. so they're angry. what do you do with them? >> one really important thing. sandy hook promises the group that copy out of the tragedy does incredible works in schools to do exactly what you were talking to congresswoman wasserman-schultz about. teaming kids when their friends are going off the rails. the second thing is, we've got to make sure background checks are universal. it's insane they're not. >> frank, you're the expert. how do you know the point of danger? >>. >> from aspirational fantasy to acting how and getting more specific about your target anderson how you do it. even if your taken ser blocking you from their twitter account, block you from their facebook account, their friends are in

it. they know it. if we equip kids with indicators and star peer counseling groups to notify those counselors when they see it amongst their friends, it will work. >> modern social media could help us, frank? >> it's the biggest warning sign and its indicator you'll have. i guarantee you when they go into this student's home and pull his computer, their hair will be curled. it's not going to be pretty and very similar to what we've seen in past incidents. >> clinically the fact that a person is so angry they have to express it somehow socially. they don't keep it to themselves. >> it's not contained particularly in a teenager. there's extra warning signs because of the emotional nature of being a teenager. it's there. we need to key in on where we find it and get people equipped to locate it, identify it and stand up and say something about it. >> because of i think our shared pessism about gun control, we'd better attack itting from this

end. >> that's exactly what the families of sandy hook did. remember after that happened, it wasn't like nothing happened. we got senator mansion, democrat with an nra rating of a plus and senator toomey. >> from west virginia. >> toomey from pennsylvania, a rock ribbed conservative republican, came together around universal background collect into did they get it done. >> they got it onto the floor of the senate but we couldn't get it done. it'srous. >> what stopped it, 960 votes? >> we waust with 54 votes. that's what happens in the senate. you lose with 54. >> this year, they're dealing with another big issue, immigration. i don't think they have the momentum to do something else. >> i'm going to get back to this. clarence, my fellow political guy, i got to tell you, most progressives have a lot of things on their mind. they worry about war in the middle east, peace, and everything in europe, they worry about brexit, they worry about russia, they worry about health care, old age.

gun people focus on gun rights. and remember, you can't shake them from that. >> who are the gun people are the anti-gun people, we're talking urban versus rural. >> rural people have guns. >> doesn't mean either is worse than the other. they're two different worlds. we're one country still. we've got to talk about how do we pull people together on what they agree on. >> slippery slope. they don't -- you know they don't want background checks. next thing they'll round up all the guns. >> we can't let that stop us, those of house do you want background checks because we get demorelized. there's no progress at all. what happens if democrats did get the majority of congress and the white house? would they be ready to push for some sensible new gun laws? would they be ready? i don't know. they've got the ideas. we've been so busy talking about those issues haven't got a

chance. >> frank, if somebody walked into a gun store and seemed sweaty or looked nutty, would they be denied a gun? does it work in practice? >> look, most responsible seasoned gunshop owners understand some of these warning signs. they've been visited by their local police, the fbi, atf. the responsible gun ownler call a time-out even perhaps feign some delay with the background check, the automated check and try to get help. that's what they should do. we're a society baby steps. what many people can agree on is enforcing the laws we have in place now. if president trump claims to be a law and order president, staff up the bureau of alcohol, tobacco abfirearms with resources it needs to enforce existing laws. that would be a huge step and few people could disagree with. >> i want to mank matt bennett and anita kumar and clarence page. what a group. the news, here it is.

17 people are dead after a shooter at a high school in broward county, florida, parkland, florida, our coverage shooting of this shooting continues now with chris hayes. >> thank you, chris. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. on this valentine's day on this ash wednesday when catholics are called to think about their mortality, 17 people are confirmed dead in a mass shooting at a high school in south florida. at least the 12th, 12th school shooting this year. here february 14p. we know 15 people were injured now being treated in area hospitals. gunman a former student is in custody. we'll walk you through the details in just a minute. first, chris murphy represents the family who's lost loved ones at sandy hook elementary school over five years ago. he was there in newtown on the day of the massacre. today as the horrors in florida were unfolding, chris murphy took to the senate floor. >> let me just note once again for my