us on this thursday morning. "morning joe," everybody, starts right now. i was sitting there with my teacher, we didn't know what was going on. once we saw the students running, i heard the gunshots and i was like, oh, my god, i just ran. >> i heard six shots loud, loud shots. after that i heard that, i was like, we got to go. i started running as fast as i could. >> all the kids came inside the room, everything, teachers pulling us in and telling us to be quiet. >> oh, i hope the other kids are okay. oh, my god. but at least 17 students and teachers were not okay. yesterday's school shooting in parkland, florida, left at least 17 people dead and 14 others injured. authorities say, shots began ringing out at marge stoneman

douglas high school shortly before students were supposed to be dismissed. the gunmshoot began reportedly 2:30. the shooter pulled the alarm so students would come into the hallway and he could shoot into the crowd. when deputies arrived at the school hundreds of students were already fleeing. according to the broward county sheriff's office, the suspected 19-year-old was con sealed himself running out of the school. 17 victims died at the school. 2 more died at the hospital. welcome to "morning joe." . it's thursday, february 15th. joe, here we are again. >> mika, here we are again.

more than 33,000 people are killed by guns in the united states every year. that's according to the cdc. 33,000. we have had 1,670 mass shoots since sandy hook and we said never again. in schools, where we send our children every day to learn. 430 people have been shot in school shootings since sandy hook. if you want to take it beyond our children, being gunned down in schools, well, three of the ten deadliest shootings in u.s. history have come in the last five months. let me say that again, because this is an epidemic that's growing. three of the ten deadliest shootings in the history of the united states of america, have come in the last five months. 15 of the 20 worst mass

shootings in u.s. history has occurred since the turn of century starting with the columbine school shooting in 1999. the five worst mass shootings have all occurred from 2007. i'll say it again the five worst mass shootings in u.s. history have occurred in this past decade. three of those five were in 2016 and 2017. you know, mika, we have been talking an awful lot about vietnam lately. unfortunately, we're looking back 50 years later, we're looking at the documentary, we're looking at the carnage, we're looking at the people still impacted by those deaths and yes, we americans are still haunted by the 58,000 americans who lost their lives needlessly in vietnam. and yet, more than 58,000

americans will be killed by guns before the end of next year. let me say that again, more people will die in america by guns this year and next, than died in a decade in vietnam. and yet, congress does nothing. the president does nothing. washington does nothing to protect our children from this continued madness. and protect the rest of us from this insanity. mika, i'm sorry but just saying we can do nothing is not enough. americans must do something and it's not just gun control measures that most americans support. over90% of americans believe we need enhabsed background checks to keep guns away from those

mentally ill, to keep guns away from terrorists. 95% want increased background checks on gun buyers. and you know what, mika, that includes me. i'm going to be buying guns, shotguns, for my children. a lot of people do that. they go out hunting. they go out target practicing. it's way of life. but here's the biggest kick, mika, here's the kicker to it all, the people who have grown up with guns around them like you and like me, and all of my friends in pensacola, think the nra has become extreme and what their schools to be safe just like we want our children's schools to be safe. the nra we grew up with that nra is no longer interested in protecting gun rights, they're

interested in promoting gun sales. i'm all for gun rights. i'm for the second amendment. i believe it means what it means. i think americans should be able to have handguns and shotguns. i don't want the government regulating that. i'm even uncomfortable with state carry laws. but the insanity that we have seen has to be curved and it has to be start and don't tell me you need military-style assault weapons to protect your home or to go hunting. you do not. this madness must stop and these background checks have to be enhance zbld real conversations and the real story of what happened yesterday has to be told. i'm looking at our esteemed list of guests today. i don't mean to unbook the show. i'm going to warn anybody, if anybody comes on this show and

say now this is not the time to not look at this, why don't you get back in your car and go home. we're going to tell the horrific stories. we're going to talk about how to move this conversation forward. what needs to happen in washington, finally. with this this morning, veteran climb nis mike barnicle and john hillman. a former attorney general and worked closely with police department while in office. and jon meachem is with us as well. we have much to get to. i'd like to get to some of the scenes of yesterday, to set the scene for the conversation. some of the children, the kids,

the teens were screaming while others ran for cover. some hid in closets, under tables, shielded by their teachers. we'll talk about those teachers. some sent text messages to their moms saying they love them. others recorded the horrifying moment firsthand as a shooter turned their school into a scene of a mass murder. >> i'm trying to keep, you know, keep really calm, you know, i'm not trying to panic, other kids are going to panic, you know, i'm telling kids to silent their phone, keep calm, pray to god, some kids are actually in pain. we're all bunched in one corner. you know what, just deal through the pain, be quiet. rather to deal with the pain than risk lives. >> we heard gunshots, everybody's confused, panicked. some people started running,

some people stayed back. >> there were also stories of heroism and bravery from inside the school. the school's football coach reportedly jumped in front of students to protect them from the shooting. last night the broward sheriff announced that a beloved football coach had died. part of this massacre was captured in graphic detail. videos of students hunkered down in classrooms as gunshots rang out. video is 11 seconds. worth warning you, it's extremely difficult to watch. but this is our reality. >> holy -- >> oh, my god! >> it goes on and it's much

worse for the kids who were in there who remember everything, joe. >> well, and of course, for those who dully saw the gunman come into the room and shoot down friends and coaches and teachers, you know, john there are many things that historians will back upon on in this dysfunctional era of american politics and shake their head they will not understand it. i think one of the most perplexing things for those removed 50 years from now, we're 50 years now from vietnam and the chaos of that time, the fact that these shootings continue unabated, 95% of americans support enhanced background checks to try and make gun usage

safer, to keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane. to try and keep guns out of the hands of terrorists. to try to keep hands out of the hands of domestic abusers. yet congress stayed with the 4%. that's what we said after sandy hook, there were senators and congressmen that chose to be with the 4% in the nra instead of the 95% of the rest of us, now as you look at the mass slayings that continue, assault-style weapon bans, now in one poll, one recent poll supported by three-fourths of americans support that. yet, one school shooting after another school shooting. las vegas, we still don't know what happened in las vegas. 79% of americans according to a recent poll support that kind of

ban. we can't get a vote. we can't get hearings. we can't have a real conversation about that. what will historians say, what do we tell our grandchildren in. >> i have no idea. and you know, i feel like we have this conversation, obviously with alarming frequency. one of the great moral outrages of our lifetime that this happens. one of the great political conundrums and puzzles. it's not just what we'll tell our grandchildren, just get on a plane. and leave the united states today and spend time in any other industrialized country in the world, one of the questions that you'll get and it's the question that basically in my adult lifetime over 30 years i have been getting it only gets more urgent, now in the world today, they all look at any american and say, there's lot we

admire about your kind and some things criticize, what's the deal with you guys and guns. >> let me stop you. >> john, look at this chart. this the is the 2016 rate of violent deaths per 100,000 people. look at how high we are above every other industrialized nation. >> yes. >> and that's because we have a gun lobby that shoves millions and millions of dollars towards politicians who get millions and millions of dollars to vote with the 4% of americans. and that's what they're doing. >> joe, you know, john just said it's a puzzle, a conundrum , its really not. one essential fact that ought to

be repeated each and every day on every news program on this country, local and national and it is this -- children die in schools because the vast majority of members of congress are afraid to lose their seats. children lose their lives because politicians are afraid to lose their seats. we're 4% of the world's poum lags. yet we own 42% of the world's guns. we're on par with yemen, a nation involved in a civil war. we now identify off the top of our heads, mass slaughters, columbine, sandy hook, virginia tech, a night club in florida, we identify them by their names and it no longer shocks the american public. we have become immune to the sense of violence created by

that shooting yesterday in that school. the one big reason is the gun. >> mike, i just say, i agree with everything you just said. to me that's just another way of talking the puzzlement. a it's not clear to me -- >> cowardice. >> in the face of this mass slaughter people find more couns courage. i don't think they're wrong taking some of the votes that joe are talking about, 95% to 5% are issue. it's puzzling both that they don't have more courage and puzzling they're using this calculus that makes them think if they voted for increased background checks that would necessarily mean they would lose their seat. i think they're wrong about that. >> joe? >> they're dead wrong about

that. and again, 95% of americans support increased background checks. and most republicans and overwhelming number of republicans support increased background checks. overwhelming number of americans support a ban on military-style assault weapons. those military-style assault weapons that are being used to gun down our children in schools in florida, people in nightclubs in orlando, people at country music concerts in las vegas, those are not constitutionally protected. they're not -- anybody that knows anything about the united states constitution, anybody that has read the decision the most aggressively pro-gun

decision in the history of the united states in the supreme court, one in which i wholeheartedly embrace, even justice scalia said, you have a right to have a handgun in your home to protect your home. this doesn't extend to military-style assault weapons. mika, yesterday we talked about epidemics. we talked about the opioid crisis. we talked about the number of people who died from opioids every year. well, this is an epidemic as well. it wasn't an epidemic back in the 1990s. it wasn't even an epidemic after columbine. but three of the deadliest mass shootings have come in the last five months. three of the ten deadliest shootings in america history have come in the last five

months. at that point, it becomes an epidem epidemic. 15 of the 20 worst mass shoots in the u.s. history have occurred since columbine. the five worst have all occurred since 2007. mika, we're in the midst of an epidemic and yes, gun -- if you want to talk about overall gun violence it has gone down over the past 20 years. but what we're talking about is protecting our children in schools. giving people the right to go to country music concerts. to go to nascar events. to go to football games. to go to baseball games. to go to churches, little chu h churches deep in the heart of texas. we're talking about people having that right without being gripped with fear that this sunday as they pray in church

might be the sunday they get gunned down. enough. it needs to be treated. >> it does need to be treated. i can tell you, that kids across america, teenagers across america, college students across america, i'm hearing from a lot of them, they can count and they feel they're next. they feel their schools have become war zones and they don't know when the next shooter is going to walk into the doors. that's how they feel. the impact this is having on generation of children is as bad as it gets. it's an epidemic. we can talk about the psychiatri psychiatristic impact. we can talk about the proliferation of guns. you work closely with police department. >> reporter: yes. >> if you look at the measures that joe is just mentioning, few of them, none of them are

perfect. none of them will solve the problem. but, we have none of them in place at this point. gun buybacks work. background checks might work. it would take ten years. it would take ten years at this point if we did everything that we seem to have problems getting even agreement on some things. if we put everything through it would take a decade to clean up our society at this point. what do cops want? >> these types of incidents are for law enforcement, they're trained, from what we see they did an extraordinary job responding. there's no question in my mind that we in law enforcement and people prosecutors, police, we understand i think there's an obligation to keep children safe

and schools safe. i also believe that i don't think any one of us we're doing that if we 18 school shootings in the last 30 -- >> we're failing our children. >> at least every other day in a school in america a child is being shot. there's a shooting happen. we have to ask a question, you know, if a plane crash happens there's an faa review, incredibly extensive review and that's not a conversation we have in america. there's a school shooting and every police department, this police department will do an after-action review. did the school do the right things? we have to go to that next level which places like the faa does. every conversation has to be had, any way to avoid a single accident or a single death. to me, our obligation is to keep children safe. law enforcement, let me say this, also, an assault rifle,

ar-15, that's an incredible threat to a police officer at the scene. the first thing they want to do is basically, you know, minimize the harm to anyone on the scene including the officers. it really is -- >> which is why you have to go with a tank to a high school. >> it's incredibly dangerous for the students there and the law enforcement walking in that door. they don't want to be in that situation. >> definitely not. joe, we're at a point where this is off the rails. the shooters are winning. . >> well, the gun lobbyists are winning because jon meachem. this is not a left, right issue. this is not a left, right issue. you have -- republicans used to support police officers. they used to support law enforcement until donald trump

told them to stop but i'm still a conservative. i still believe in the second amendment. i still support our police officers. i'll ask you the question that i asked john, what will historians look back 50 years later, our politicians sat back and they didn't listen to cops on the street? they didn't listen to police commissioners. they didn't listen to sheriffs, they didn't listen to prosecutors. they saw that 33,000 americans died every year in mass shoot g shootings -- not mass shootings, 33,000 americans died every year by guns. add those two years up, more than the americans died in vietnam. yetter, we're doing nothing.

people like me not afraid of guns but take my children out, and what do we say? what do historians say about this congress, about this president, about this era where our children can't go to schools without being afraid and people in texas can't go to church and rural communities without the fear of being gunned down. >> well, it's the most extreme and tragic and troubling example of a tendency in the american soul, the american way of being to allow a small number of people to have an outside effect. i think that's the case with the gun lobby, i own guns as you do. i have no problem whatever with these kind of restrictions because, you know, quail and

dove don't need to be hit by an ar-15. it doesn't work that way. any sensible person who's in the even remotely in the main stream of american life understands that. it's a common sense of the matter. it's what jefferson would call a self-evident truth. the other thing i would say, when you watch those images that mika was narrated, we're basically under a wave of terror attacks. those images, that sound feels like september 11th. and imagine if foreign prep pray or thes were clearly behind this number of attacks the last x number of days. we would be bombing countries. we would be back at war in a very active and forward way. why there's -- why we manage to get outraged for six to eight

hours and then move on is something that i think we have to be focused on. >> yeah, hey, jon, you grew up in tennessee. you live in tennessee now. i grew up in mississippi, alabama, georgia, florida, for most of my life. you went to church with people that went hunting with their kids, i go to church with people and went to church in the deep south with people that went hunting with their kids. after something like this happens, it's not like it's just my friends in the media that i work with in washington or new york that are saying, what's going on? it's my friends who have taken their children hunting, whose fathers took them hunting when they were 5 years old. that are saying, i don't need an ar-15 to go hunting and i don't

need an ar-15 to protect my family and my home in pensacola, if somebody walks through my front door i got all the firepower i need. >> absolutely. and i think there's a huge -- >> i just don't get it. >> yeah, there's a huge opening here for a significant moment of leadership. if you're a united states senator or if you're the president of the united states this is moment where you can speak out against the interest group that has an outside influence over the lives of our children. speak out, take them on, we remember political leaders, we remember generations -- because this is not just the leaders, it's also us because we have to make it possible for them. we remember those leaders and those generations who stand up against clear self-evident

wrongs. this is a self-evident wrong. and if i were in the united states senate today or the white house today i'd be thinking that this is a moment to stand up and be counted. still ahead -- we have a number of lawmakers on the show this morning. tragically each one has experienced dealing with mass murders. senator tim kaine of virginia, where 32 people were killed at virginia tech in 2007. senate michael bennett where 12 people were killed at a movie theater in colorado. now, 17 people killed yesterday aft at a high school in parkland. we'll be right back turn on your television right now, you'll see scenes of children running for their lives.

what looks to be the 19th school shooting in this country and we have not even hit march. let me just note, once again for my colleagues, that this happens nowhere else other than the united states of america. this epidemic of mass slaughter. this scourge of school shooting after school shooting. it only happens here not because of coincidence, not because of bad luck, but it's a consequence of our inaction. we are responsible. for a level of mass atrocity that happens in this country with zero parallel anywhere else.

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thank you all very much. >> mr. president, why have you not spoken out against domestic violence? >> i'm opposed to domestic violence and everybody here knows that. i'm totally i opposed to domestic violence of any kind. everybody knows that. and it almost wouldn't even have to be said. now, you hear it. but you all know it. but thank you all very much. almost doesn't have to be said but it's good he said it's just the way he said it was really, putrid, john, what at

this point will surprise us and what's your reaction to the way the president finally said that he's opposed to domestic violence instead of, rob porter did good work for us here, we really surprised to hear about the allegations against us. we wish him well. we believe in due process but domestic violence must be taken seriously. we're against domestic violence and he's leaving this white house at this moment. period, end of story. my question is, what's going on in there? is he -- what's the word that i want to use -- he's got development issues in terms of how to communicate with people. it comes out in ugly little piece and i'll say it reminds me of a moment almost three years

ago i was interviewing him and he had been endorsed by david duke and i said, you've been endorsed by david duke. lot of people want you to denounce that endorsement. he said, we want me to denounce, fine i'll denounce. the main thing is, he hasn't done what people actually want. to talk about the victims. he's still not uttered any word of sympathy for the victims or alleged victims. partially what people would want to know out there. >> why my question was seething with anger, as a woman that was really hard to hear and it was as disgusting as it gets. up next n the aftermath of the rob porter scandal, nbc news has learned about a quarter of all the appointees in the white house, executive office, lack

full security clearance. we'll discus the significance of that, next. experience lexus safety system plus standard.

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internal white house documents obtained by nbc news show that more than 130 political appointees working in

the executive office of the president did not have permanent security clearances as of november 2017. that includes the president's family members and senior advisers. ivanka trump and jared kushner as well as white house counsel don mcgahn. social media director dan ska savino and chris liddell. in all 47 people in positions that report directly to president were working with some form of security clearance. about a quarter of all political appointees in the executive office and at least 85 political appointees in the white house, vice president's office and national security council were working without security clearances.

politico reports that a third white house official resigned after he wouldn't get full security clearance. chairman of the house oversight committee republican trey gowdy said his panel has launched a probe into the when the white house knew about the allegations against former staff secretary rob porter. gowdy said, i'm interested in how someone with credible allegations of domestic abuse, plural, can be hired. joe, so many questions and the concern is, those who are in there, if there are questions -- other questions about people, i think the biggest issue is, they could be subject to blackmail if they have problems like porter did. >> well, they could be subject to blackmail if they have

problems in their background -- >> financials. >> -- situations like porter had. deeply in debt. not only are they more prone to blackmail they're handling classified documents. hillary clinton's supporters don't appreciate the fact that we ask difficult questions. i'm glad we did because you want to protect classified information and be very produ productiproduc protective of it. this trump white house seems to be more reckless and having classified documents passed around by people who can't get full security clearances. at one point does congress look at this and start considering this to be an issue of national security. >> soon, if the congress acts

responsib responsibly. i think we now have, people have been noting this porter scandal which is now has gone on for a full week, or longer at this point, it's going to go for a while longer, we have two separate things going on we still don't have a real concrete story of the porter part of the story. we still don't know, extraordinary suspicions around the likelihood that the chief of staff has been lying about what he knew and when he knew it. we don't have a clean, credible factual time line of who all knew what when about rob porter. we all know that there's an unprecedented number of people in the white house today and even more just a couple of months ago because the number was even larger in the fall who

were wandering around in the white house with interim security clearances it now raises the question, are those people doing what they should be doing, keeping their eyes off of intelligence. a question for congressional oversight. with that number of people without senior security clearances. >> we have to talk about jared kushner. >> we do. >> we both know that jared was the defacto secretary of state. he was donald trump's go-between between the president in waiting and the rest of the world. he spoke, we know, had detailed

conversations with chinese leaders, with russians, with the saudis, with the israelis, with the united arab emirates, you name it, donald trump told jared you're my guy, you're my go-between and jared would set up, set up the calls. he would talk to the people. he's made no secret that at all that he was working on middle east peace, very close to the crown prince in saudi arabia. this guy had more access to foreign leaders and we have to -- we have to assume top security classified information, so there has to be that investigation and an investigation of everyone around the president as well. >> certainly. now you get to the sub element of this story, which, again, kushner, an incredibly important

element, the broad handling of classified information, the question specifically of him, he still only has an interim security clearance. the types of things he was working on the idea he wasn't not looking at classified information seems implausible and then the question becomes, not only is he mishandling security information and why are we in a full year into the administration and jared kushner doesn't have a full security clearance? what the issues holding up that clearance? it's been a year and it's pretty high priority. that raises a whole other set of questions. >> as if we didn't have enough to worry about this, the aspect of what we're talking about, the president of the united states does not read his presidential daily briefing. >> there's that. >> but jared kushner can. >> or does. >> the attorney general from the state of new jersey, hiring

practices, what sort of background checks do you do to hire the assistant attorney general for fraud. >> there's an extensive background check. there are incredibly thorough and important. none are as thorough and important as here. most people fbi clears are at a secret level. the president and all of the president president's clearance, have to have the highest level of clearance. those are the most important background checks. rob porter literally carried every single document that the president was brought or saw. he would have personally delivered to the president. his eyes would have been on everything. someone like jared kushner, it's more than a year, one of the first things you're asked when a new administration comes in, who

do you want background checked? within a week or two of the election, kushner's name would have been on the list. this is an extraordinarily long period of time for someone to go through that level of clearance. usually it's four, six months. it might take a little longer. but the mitigation against that, those are the people closest to the president who needs to be cleared. the question is, we need to know what was in the july briefing that was given to the white house. they then asked additional questions the fbi came back in november. so, there's going to have been information in there that raised issues or concerns. >> all right, still ahead on morning joe, new video of the florida shooting suspect arriving at the broward county jail this morning. we'll have more on his troubling

past. including the warning from a teacher at the school last year. we're back in just a moment with more "morning joe." don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched 'yeahhh.' yeahhh! try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. no satellite needed. bp is taking safety glasses

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it's 53 past the hour. the satirical publication "the oni onion" has once again captured the futility felt. it published the following headline as it does after every mass shooting changing only the dates, the location of the violence and the number of individuals killed. the article was first written after a college student killed six people, stabbing three and shooting three others in the area around the university of california at santa barbara in 2014. to quote the "washington post" "the reputation seems to underscore this tragedy of what the article implies could be a solvable problem -- that mass shootings are a regular facet of life in request. the headline goes viral after every mass shooting."

last night the man who wrote that original headline tweeted out "when i wrote this headline i had no idea it would be applied to the high school a mile from my house." jon meacham, i know you're leaving this hour. what are your final thought this is morning? >> well, i think we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. and the people who are on the second amendment extremist side of this will say that you can never legislate complete safety. that's true. but let's say you save one life. let's say one of these shootings doesn't happen. that's worth the price and i would ask every lawmaker, every person in a position of power around everyone who has any access to lawmakers a simple question -- do you want to be on the side of an extremist lobby or do you want to be on the side of public safety? it's a straightforward call at this point. >> jon meacham, thank you. 46 days into 2018 and we're

already covering the 18th school shooting this year, this time in south florida. we'll talk to the superintendent of broward county public schools, plus bill nelson of florida and other lawmakers that know what it's like to have their states ravaged by gun violence, senator tim kaine of virginia, michael bennett of colorado and congressman jim himes of connecticut. "morning joe" is coming right back. can fire an fbi director who won't pledge his loyalty. he can order the deportation of a million immigrant children. he can threaten an unstable dictator armed with nuclear weapons. he can go into a rage and enter the nuclear launch codes. how bad does it have to get before congress does something?

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classroom. you know i'm -- you know i'm trying to -- you know, i'm trying to keep really calm, not trying to panic, i know other kids are going to panic and i'm telling other kids to silence their phone and keep calm, pray to god. some kids are actually in pain, it's the way they were all, we were bunched in in one corner i was like just deal through the pain, be quiet, deal with the pain than risk a life or multiple lives. >> we head outside, two or three minutes later start hearing gunshots, everyone is confused, panicked, doesn't know what to do, some people started running, some people stayed back and as soon as the gunshots continued people started running away. yesterday's school shooting in parkland, florida, left at least 17 people dead and at least 14 others injured. authorities say shots began ringing out at marjory stoneman douglas high school before students were supposed to be dismissed for the day. the gunfire began around 2:30 in

the afternoon as fire alarms started going off. florida senator bill nelson told msnbc it was the shooter who pulled the alarm so kids would flow out into the hallways and he could shoot at them. nelson said the shooter wore a gas mask and had smoke grenades. when deputies arrived at the school, hundreds of students were already fleeing for their lives. according to the broward county sheriff's office, the suspected 19-year-old shooter concealed himself in that crowd and was among those running out in terror of the school to hide himself within the crowd. the sheriff's office says 15 victims died at the school, two more died in the hospital. right now investigators are working to identify all the victims. so here are the numbers. 15 of the 20 worst mass shootings in u.s. history have occurred since columbine in 1999. the five worst have occurred since 2007, three of those five happened in the past 20 months.

but this is not about numbers, this is about lives, the lives of another 17 american children stolen while they were just trying to go to school. joe? >> stolen while going to school and it always seems that we focus after these shootings on the one. who was the shooter? why did he do it? what did it look like from his vantage point? we played some graphic images from social media earlier in the show. we need to see what it's like for our children. what do our children face when they go to school? you know, mika, you gave some numbers, think about this. the cdc reports that more than 33,000 people are killed by guns in the united states every year. and, again, that's not according to a left wing web site, that's according to the cdc. we've had 1,607 mass shootings since the sandy hook tragedy.

we've had 430 people shot in school shootings since that sandy hook tragedy. as you've said, three of the ten deadliest school shootings and three of the ten deadliest shootings overall have come in the last five months. 15 of the 20 worst mass shootings in u.s. history have happened since columbine. and, of course, the five worst have all occurred in the last decade and three of those five were in 2016 and 2017. you know, we always look back, we look back at the mistakes we've made and i've talked a good bit about the ken burns documentary, we just passed the 350th an v -- 50th anniversary . there's so many policymakers obsessed on what we did wrong in vietnam, why didn't we see the danger coming earlier? what would we have done if we had a chance to do it over again? well, 50 years later we're still

haunted by the 58,000 americans who lost their lives in that needless war. and yet the same number of americans are going to be killed by guns before the end of next year. again, more people will die before the end of next year by guns in america than died in the jungles of vietnam over that decade-long war. yet congress does nothing. the president does nothing. washington does nothing to protect our children from this continued madness. now think about this, there are deranged killers right now, and we know this, because we do look at the people who have committed these heinous acts in the past and we know there are deranged killers right now planning a mass shooting and they're planning it right now.

maybe it will be at another florida school or another texas church deep in the heart of texas or maybe it will be at a country music concert in las vegas or a nascar race. i just wonder, though, today, who will be those domestic terrorist enablers? who are going to be the useful idiots in the media, on web sites and on capitol hill that will make excuses for the gun lobby? that will tell gun owners like myself and you and people that go hunting and people who teach their children that were taught by their parents to hunt as early as five, six, seven, people who have been members of the nra in the past, people who believe in the second amendment, people who believe you have a right to have handguns, people believe that you have a right to have shotguns in your house. who are are going to be the

useful idiots that are going to make excuses and that are going to go against 95% of americans and say we don't need enhanced background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. we don't need bans on assault-style weapons that even justice scalia said in "heller" in 2008 and 2009 were not protected by the second amendment. who will be the useful idiots that will continue to do the gun lobby's business and continue to push an agenda that's not focused on gun safety. it's not even focused on gun rights because we support the second amendment, we support gun rights, we believe that the right to keep and bear arms actually means americans have the right to keep and bear arms and it has nothing do with malicious. who will be the useful idiots that will promote an agenda that's not about gun rights and safety but instead is just about the bloody bottom line?

selling more guns that can be used to kill more people. mika, that's the question and i'll be curious to see what republicans cower in the corner on capitol hill today and what useful idiots in the media go out and trot out their same tired excuses for why we can't do everything while revenue from the nra and other gun groups flood into their web sites, their tv channels, or maybe their think tanks. it's just offensive. >> it's one of the key questions of our time and with us on set here in new york we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john heilemann, former new jersey attorney general and now a distinguished scholar in residence at nyu's law school ann milligram, also columnist for the "wall street

journal" and contributor for nbc news and msnbc peggy noonan. for the panel, let's set the scene of what we're talking about right now, the reality of it. yesterday, in a florida high school, some of the kids screamed while others ran for cover in terror. some hid in closets and under tables shielded by their teachers. some sent text messages to their moms saying they loved them. overs recorded the horrifying moment firsthand as a shooter turned their school into the scene of a mass murder. >> i was just standing there with my teacher, we didn't know what was going on but once we saw the students running then i started to think, like, what's happening? then i heard gunshots and i was like, oh, my god. i just ran. >> i heard six shots loud, loud shots. after i heard that i was like oh, my god, we got to go. so i started running as fast as i can. >> all the kids were -- came inside the rooms and everything, there were teachers pulling us in and telling us to get in the

rooms and be quiet. >> oh, what a joy. oh, it's such a joy and relief. i just hope all the other kids are okay. oh, my god. >> i was able to get in contact with my sister isabella gomez, she's a sophomore there. she answered the phone trembling in shock that she saw people being shot at and luckily she was able to make it out. i'm just -- i'm still just shaken a bit because that's my baby sister, you know? >> she was sending us texts saying "i love you, i'm sorry" and all that because she didn't think she was going to make it but she's okay thank god. we haven't got her yet. they're releasing her, but she was right near the shooter, that's what she told me. >> there were also stories of heroism and bravery from inside the school. the school's football coach reportedly jumped in front of students to protect them from the shooter.

he was thought to have survived the shooting, however last night the broward sheriff announced that a beloved football coach died. he did not name the coach, but they lost their football coach. part of the massacre was captured in graphic detail, video of students hunkered down inside a classroom screaming in fear as gunshots rang out in the background. the video is 11 seconds long and before we play it, we warn you that it's obviously extremely difficult to watch. >> holy -- [ gunshots ] [ screaming ] >> oh, my god! oh, my god! >> and so, joe, that's just a glimpse of the horror that unfolded inside that school yesterday. >> just a glimpse and actually pretty anti-septic glimpse and

i -- we need to see what happens insiepd those schools. >> it's time, i think, we do, yes. >> when gunmen come in. i never understood people saying don't show the planes hitting the towers. no, we needed to see the planes hitting the towers. we needed to see what our enemies were willing to do to kill americans, terrorists, islamic extremist terrorists that would do anything to kill americans. we need to see the reality. we need to see the reality of what's happening in our schools. we need to see the reality of what's happening at country music concerts. we need to see the realities of what are happening to churches deep in the heart of texas. we need to see the reality of what is happening in middle america and john heilemann, you know, it's -- those are just the facts. and we're talking a lot about data this morning and we're talking a lot about data this morning, we're talking a lot about numbers this morning

because emotional arguments often rule the day. somebody will say well, that's my constitutional right to carry around an assault-style weapon. no it's not. justice scalia didn't even say it was. well, the majority of americans are on my side. you live in a bubble. no, they don't. john, political calculus, let's talk about the political calculus here. when it comes to enhanced background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane, to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, 95% of americans tell pollsters they support increased background checks. when you talk about military-style weapons. look, only 4% oppose. 4% are on the side of the nra and the majority of the republican members in the house and senate. 4%. they are 4%. we are the 95%. i speak of we as myself and a

lot of other gun owners and nra members and a lot of other republicans and a lot of other conservatives. we are the 95% but john, even assault style bans, those numbers go as high as 75% in a lot of polls. on the upper end you have 79% in then p-- this nra/ipsos poll. it's nra money. i don't understand why somebody would put themselves with the 4% and ignore the 95% in their district. >> well, i think it is a question, joe, the nra is obviously the core of it and it's a question of fear and it's a very specific thing, one thing worth drilling down on. what you're talking about is a phenomenon where you have an extraordinarily well-funded lobby, not just the nra, there are groups that are further to the right than the nra on gun

rights who would all say essentially if you are a republican politician and certainly if you're a democrat but more importantly a republican politician because they control the house of representatives and senate, that if they were to support any regulation or restriction on gun rights that they would be primaried by a well-funded gun rights lobby backed opponent. and for those politicians who care most about keeping their seat who see in our increasingly uncompetitive house races that the only way in which you can lose a seat in most districts around the country in a primary that your great fear is that you'll be primaries by a well-funded poend and the one thing that an opponent in a republican -- opponent to a republican incumbent, the one way which they can be guaranteed to be well funded is if they had the nra backing them and were able to wage this fight. this question becomes why is it that a republican incumbent given the numbers you played out would not be happy to have that

fight and say okay, let's fight this out in a primary where this will be the issue we'll fight on. we'll fight the issue over background checks and i can win that because even on the far right 95% to 5% the numbers are on my side. >> overwhelming majority of republicans support increased background checks, overwhelming number of nra cmembers. i had the nra working against me in 1994. i got 62% of the vote even though i was for the second amendment. they worked aggressively against me, they lied about me. it didn't matter. i still voted for gun rights when i went to congress but peggy it's not as if when somebody went out to the campaign trail and said "i support background checks and i support a ban on these assault-style weapons" it's not as if people say you're some left wing freak. they say i'm on the same sigh ronald reagan was and george w. bush was.

this is not a left-wing position, this is actually right in the heart of where america is. >> you know, i think one of the problems in this discussion, joe, is that a lot of americans think we do have background checks. they're not sure where it stands state to state, what the federal rules are. they're sot of not sure where we are. so a little bit of clarity there on what exists now in terms of background checks and what would make things better. it may take longer, maybe more expensive but it would weed out better and remove dangerous people better but i can't help but think if i can share just a few thoughts, one of the few things that has really struck me about seeing the video in the past 20 hours or so of what happened in florida is that the students and the teachers know

how to do this. they know how to respond. they know the language. they know how to do the interview. it's as if it's a movie they have seen before and i think we all experience it that way. it's like a horror movie we have seen before. i think everybody who talks about, look, can't we get gun rights and controlling who has guns in america, can't we get the number of guns in america more under control, more rational? more intelligence? everybody to me is right on that, those who say this is no time to discuss it are ridiculous. somehow for them it's never time to discuss it. but i'll tell you something else. i just have a feeling that the whole gun part of the conversation is not the only part. we'd love to see congress move forward. my sense is we're in an

emergency. 19 of these shootings somebody said earlier just since this year began but i would kind of like to see a congressional committee take a look thoughtfully and with really smart people coming in discussing, look, this has been a problem in america for decades now, what happened in america? why is it going on? >> but peggy, they will not allow -- congress and the president will not even allow the cdc to study it. they will not fund studies that will dig into gun violence and the impact of gun violence and how to stop gun violence. you said something that really i think as always really sort of encapsulates where we are right now. our children, our beautiful children are so used to growing

up in a culture where there is gunfire and mass shootings at schools that thigh know the drill. in the '50s and the '60s and even into the '70s we grew up afraid of a nuclear attack from the soviet union. they told us what to do. they told us the duck our desks, they told where you say to evacuate, where the fallout shelters were. if we had a warning, if the enemy from the outside dropped an atomic bomb how we might survive. that's what we learned as children and that was the fear hanging over our heads quietly. this is now a fear far closer to home than any nuclear attack ever was. far closer to home than any terror attack ever will be to the overwhelming majority of these children, peggy, yet we do

nothing. >> i really do think we ought to be -- first of all kids are afraid to go to school because they're afraid something terrible is going to happen and they and their friends are kind to wind up on tv. another point, i think we deal sympathetically with the parents of these dreadful shooters and the relatives and we try to be respectful, they are individuals, they are not the people responsible but, geez, we're looking today at the social media postings of this kid. we're seeing he was way into guns and way into symbols of violence, that he may have been abusive in some of his social media stuff. i think the police chief down there suggested it. i think we need at the very least a greater attentiveness to what the people around us are doing and if they're starting to show signs of sickness -- and he was showing signs of sickness --

there ought to be something you can do. by the way, there are parents in america who will tell you i know my son is sick, i mean, we're having a mental health crisis going on in america. i know something's wrong with my son, he's disturbed but he hasn't broken the law yet and we're not rich so we can't put anymore the hospital and the cops won't take him in. there's a whole area there of people who need help who are not being helped and i think it's part of this story. >> we have a lot of people we want to get to but we want to sneak in a quick break. up next, we want to talk about the teachers. not only do we ask them to teach our children, now with ask them to shield them from bullets literally. that's part of their daily reality. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched

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there's so many different angles on this. mike barnicle, we haven't even scratched the surface about the heroism of the teachers involved

and the football coach who lost his life. >> well, joe was talking about, quite appropriately, the reality of events like this and part of the reality is we find out something we always know intrinsically but don't realize it until this event occurs, the reality is that teachers, school principipa principals, comes to learn how to function with an active shooter in the school. and the children -- and they are children, 16, 17 -- they are children, they learn how to leave the school with their hands up in a straight line. they learn how to appear before the media without a sign of nervousness, they're so used to this. they learn how to exist in a country, 4.4% of the world's population that has acquired 42% of the world's handguns. they learn off the top of their heads as we do the names of multiple shootings around this country by memory.

"columbine," "virginia tech" "orlando" "las vegas" now this high school in florida. and they also learn -- and they are learning if they don't know this already, something that jim himes, congressman himes from connecticut who's about to join us, knows in fact, that children lose their lives because a majority of members of congress are afraid to lose their seats. the lack of courage and character in this congress and past congresses is astounding. congressman himes, you represent newtown, connecticut. why, why, is this happening? >> well, i -- newtown is just over the line from my district but obviously those of us who were around newtown and saw the horror of at this point 20 younger children killed and of course you were talking about teachers, six teachers, mike the answer to your question about why is because the nra and the right wing in this country have decided that standing up on an

absolute basis -- and by absolute what i mean is you can't touch a single word of our sun safety laws, they have made it a purity test and they have a tool that works unbelievably well to dissipate the rage and anger that goes through even this building at a time like this which is after las vegas we have a one-week conversation about bump stocks which nobody heard of and then that dissipates. why? because bump stocks are only used in a tiny percentage of killings. most gun violences suicide, so let's talk about suicides and mental health but don't look over here where there's a universal background check bill langui languishing. so because this is a complicated problem, somebody can say the topic due injury, whether it's bump stocks or assault weapons, that that won't solve the whole problem. meanwhile, no one around here has the courage to say wait a minute, no other country, not another country on the planet, has this problem. let's think about a solution that involves lots of things and that involves for the first time some courage to save these lives

we see being lost every two days. >> jim, what is the status of the concealed carry legislation? where is it now in congress? >> well, that's an easy question to answer, mike because there is not a single piece of gun safety legislation that's anywhere in the congress, that stands even a two% chance of coming to the floor of the house of representatives, even things supported by 90% of the american public like universal back ground checks. the idea that no matter who you are if you're going to exercise your rights, you're not a felon or terrorist. it's not going anywhere because the gun lobby and the right wing -- this is a religious matter for them -- has basically said if you bring it up in a meaningful way, your career will be over. >> so solutions are difficult, though. in our very emotional, very quite frankly at this point understandable reaction with frustration with what won't happen in washington and i ask

you, though, to explain even background checks. what exactly do you vote for at this point? because the background checks that are out there, what do they entail? some are not very complete and there may be a report that this young man, the shooter, passed? >> it's important to think about a couple things. there are federal standards for federal gun sellers and they have certain standards people have to meet in terms of background checks. it's basically criminal history and checks on mental illness, domestic violence, how long someone has been in the country. you can't come in to the united states as a visitor and buy a gun. we don't allow that. but it's an important conversation to have about background checks because what we're starting to hear and peggy referenced this is that the gunman had numerous posts on social media, he had weapons displayed, he threatened kids at the school, threatens the guns to be shot by a police officer

in the midst of something like this horrific act so we need to be asking the real question of -- we often solve today's problems with yesterday's ideas and we live in a world, smartphones weren't introduced until 2007, background checks started in the '80s but the world has changed know -- enormously. i think we have to have a real conversation about who it's possible that we have a kid who is literally posting threats against other students and this that is not caught and someone like that would pass a background check. >> joe? >> congressman, obviously you and other people in connecticut have for a very long time, over the past five years, have heard other parents being afraid, fear of sending their kids to school. i have known a lot of parents with children whose kids were traumatized by newtown and never

felt safe in school again. i have friends in florida calling me saying for the first time in their lives they're afraid to send their 15-year-old children to school. we talk about the fear that parents are enduring sending their children to school but we have to turn the tv set off in our house so our kids don't see these images for two, three, four days. that's happening more and more. when is congress going to step up and start acting on this? when can we at least allow the cdc and other organizations to start studying the impact of gun violence on america? >> it's a great question, joe, and i fear the answer is an ugly one. congress is not going to lead on this issue. the nra has become so powerful around here that, again, congress will not lead. the way this is going to change,

joe, is when the rage and the fear and the anger finally translate into a demand in places like florida because, remember, in our own state of connecticut after sandy hook the state passed universal background check, passed a package of gun safety measures. this is an issue where until the american people in places like florida, because florida is going backwards on this stuff with things like stand your ground laws. until the people in florida start going to town hall meets with my colleagues from florida and start saying this is critical to me and if you don't show some spine, if you don't show some backbone, if you don't address this fear i fear every morning at 7:15 when my fourth grader gets on this bus, i'm going to vote against you. so leadership won't come from the congress, it will come from an angry american people demanding their government do something. >> congressman jim himes of connecticut. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you, mika. the superintendent of broward county public school joins us next on "morning joe." stay with us.

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joining us now, superintendent for broward county public schools robert runcie, thank you for joining us. my first question is can you

bring us the latest information as to what happened at the school yesterday and any information on the deceased and injured? >> yesterday a former student of marjory stoneman douglas appeared on campus at time of our dismissal and entered the building and began to open fire on students, faculty. it's one of our newer buildings on the campus, it primarily houses freshman students. it's three floors. the shooter went through all three floors. it's my understanding that he discarded his firearm and other equipment he had on him and left with the students.

the response from our law enforcement community was tremendous and they were able to -- hello? >> was he able to walk right into the school in what's the security situation at the school? what do we know about motive at this point? we've heard a lot of different concerns that he has been angry. >> yes. so we don't have -- i don't have any specific details on motive. i know he's being questioned by law enforcement. they have also interviewed students and staff at the school yesterday as we were evacuating students to a staging area where we were matching them up with their parents and caregivers and also doing interviews there and providing crisis management services but i don't have any further details regarding motivation around this. >> mr. runcie, as we understand

it, the school is closed, obviously, for the rest of the week but going forward, preparing for next week, what are you doing with the teachers who obviously are deeply affected by what happened and specifically with the student body who was even more affected by what has happened? what do you do to plan for reopening of a school? >> well, we have -- we've identified four locations, two in parkland and two in coral springs where we are providing starting at 8:00 a.m. this morning counseling. grief counseling services for students, families and staff. we will continue to do whatever we need to do each and everyday for every student, every family, every staff member to help them through this. we are also receiving support

from our state attorney general to continue to provide ongoing services to families and students as necessary but you know we have our own teams on the ground, they include guidance counselors, school psychologists, mental health professionals, social workers, family counselors. we have deployed all of our resources. we have receiving support also from neighboring counties that have reached out to us so we're doing what we can to put every resource, every focus to do the best we can for these families that are going through tremendous amount of pain, hurt, we need to be there for them. this community is going to come together to make sure that that happens. >> mr. runcie, being a high school teacher is a difficult job and it's an honorable job, it's a huge high school you have

there, over 3,000 students. you unfortunately are going to have at least 15 to 17 funeral services for people killed in this mass slaughter yesterday. it's going to affect the rest of the academic year emotionally for every student in the school, how do you plan to deal with things like that? >> well, i think it starts by having a conversation with the faculty, the students, the families, they will need space and time to heal. part of that healing process is giving them the opportunity to talk about this, giving them the opportunity to receive help, to receive counseling, to receive support. we will be as creative as we need to be. as flexible as we need to be to accommodate our students and

families to get through the remainder of this school year. >> superintendent robert runcie, thank you very much for being on the show this morning, best of luck to you. >> thank you. our next guest was the governor of virginia the day a gunman opened fire at virginia tech killing 32 people. democratic senator tim kaine will join us ahead. he's also part of that bipartisan group of lawmakers working on a bill to protect dreamers. a lot to discuss with the senator from virginia next on "morning joe."

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schools should be places of safety and sanctuary and learning. when that sanctuary is violated the impact is felt in every american classroom and every american community. today our nation grieves with those who have lost loved ones at virginia tech. we hold the victims in our hearts, we lift them up in our

prayers and we ask a loving god the comfort those who are suffering today. >> that was president george w. bush in his remarks following, of course, the deadliest school shooting in u.s. history at virginia tech in 2007. of course, in the ten years since the virginia tech shooting, the united states has experienced one mass smooting after another, all the worst mass shootings in u.s. history have occurred since 2007 but that day at virginia tech was a day our next guest, who served as the state's governor at the time and in its aftermath says was the worst day of his life, senator tim kaine of virginia joins us now. it's interesting, senator, that the president talking there, the republican president talking there, the politician, not only

was extending his thoughts and prayers to those who died at that tragedy but also supported background checks like ronald reagan. >> right. >> also supported a ban on assault-style weapons and you live in the state of virginia. two governors, the last two governors elected have supported gun safety legislation. why can't congress at least pass a ban on bump stocks that most americans support and also support background checks that 95% of americans support? >> joe, that's a question that's really about the shame of this body. it is -- i was governor in that shooting at virginia tech. president bush and i traveled to blacksburg together to comfort families who lost their loved ones. students and faculty members. the shooting at virginia tech occurred because of a flaw in the background record check

system. i was able to fix one piece of it but tried to get my legislature to do more and they wouldn't. i came to the senate and within three months we were in a debate on the senate floor about whether we could do in the aftermath of the shooting in newtown and the senate wouldn't. why can't we? i live in a state scarred by tragedy. i also live in a state the nra has headquarters in virginia. i will say the nra sort of has a lock of congress right now. so much members of congress are dramatically out of step with the american public. the thing so unusual about this is the nra supported background record checks for a long time. the nra has slowly become an organization that marchings es e beat of gun manufacturers. their idea is sell whenever, wherever, whatever quantity to whomever.

that's what the congress does. we need to take steps that will not eliminate gun violence. that's beyond the power to do. we know steps dramatically reduce the risk of horrible tragedies like the tragedy yesterday in parkland. >> hey, senator. it's john here. probably a question better addressed to a sociologist. you've seen this up close for a long period of time. i'm wondering if you have a thought about it. talked a lot about why politicians don't act. we also talked a bit about the notion that the this sudden increase and it's sudden, a lot of mass shootings over the last decade. a lot of school shootings over the last decade, but just been an incredible proliferation of both within the last say three years. so i wonder as we analyze the problem, what do you think is behind that? i know we say it's an epidemic. there's a contagion, but what's really going on there. the gun laws haven't changed in the last three years.

>> well, you know, so two big questions. why don't politicians act and why is there an epidemic. let me go on epidemic side. i think it's the intersection between untreated mental health needs and access to firearms that are way too easy and that's one of the things that background record checks gets you to. and the access to firearms includes firearms of greater leth lethality. we don't know the circumstances of the shooting yesterday, but there's a lot of signs of mental health problems in the individual who did it. and what you see in so many instances in fact when i talked to sheriff's these days they tell me our nails are filled with people who have untreated mental health needs. shouldn't be in jail, but if you don't treat people with mental health needs, they will eventually do something harmful to hemss and others. then they're in jail. the combination of easy access to weapons of carnage and untreated mental health, that's

the intersection that we're living in right now. >> totally understand and agree with that. i guess i want to drill down on why is it that we suddenly are seeing in the last three years. is there an increase. on either sides t laws haven't gotten more liberal. so there's that. there's not a liberalization of law. on the mental health side, has something happened to make things dramatically worse just in the last two to three years. i say the number of incidents is really sky rocketing just in the last 36 months. >> i think you ought to take a look at this. look at what's happened to per capita spending on mental lelt in the last 25 years. in virginia, i was looking when i was governor. now this has been a few years. i was governor. now this has been a few years.

increasing the national average was imprisonment cost. virtually everything else is getting squeezed out. look at the budget mick mulvaney presented to congress a couple of months ago. look what it proposes with respect to mental health spending. what you're seeing if you look at this is based on the needs and population real reduced commitment to mental health as you're seeing evidence of challenges like opioid addiction and other things. and we're making our sheriff's and jailers be mental health professionals without any treatment and then you combine that for increased mental health challenges with probably reduced funding over time. you combine that with weapons of increasing lethality. these manufacturers want to come up with the latest bell and whistle to keep selling more and more carnage inducing weaponry to the smaller group of americans that are buying these weapons, but they're buying the weapons in greater number. >> hey, senator. good morning. >> hey, peg gpeggy. thank you.

>> when you talk to your fellow senators, when you're informal for a moment as you bump into them this morning when you're going down by those pillars. you have conversations after disasters like this. when you remove the idea, just the subject for the moment of gun law, and where do you guys go as you contemplate what is happening in america as expressed through this increasing number of violent moments that we're experiencing in the schools. what's the conversation like among you guys? take gun law out of it. >> well, it's kind of hard to unwrap it. i would say we really do talk about this intersection of mental health and just easy availability of guns of greater and greater carnage. it is in that space. one of the things that i've

talked about with colleagues is i remember after we were going to have background checks after sandy hook and saying i live in the state where the nra has the headquarters. i know this organization. when i run, they give me an f. campaign against me. never been able to beat me in virginia. you don't need to be afraid of them. they're a paper tiger. i have colleagues who are still afraid and i'll tell you why. they're not afraid that the nra's positions are popular. no support for background checks is popular. they're afraid the nra will come in their state and run ads against them. when the nra runs ads, they don't say you're for background record check. they pick something else and attack you over there because the nra knows its own positions aren't popular with the american public. >> before we go, we have to ask you, what's going on today with daca and potential? any hope for a deal? >> i think so. i've worked with a group of 30 senators over the last month.

we basically brokered the deal to reopen government and get us on a path to deal budget which we did last week and have a debate on dreamers. we have a bill out with 16 c co-sponsors. eight republicans and eight democrats. very close to 60 votes. going to have a vote today. the question for president trump is can you take yes for an answer. he's talked about dreamers need a path to citizenship and we do that in the numbers he's talking about and campaigned on wanting robust money for border security and giving him every penny he asked for. this was a tough bill to vote for in a lot of ways. compromises on both sides. can president trump take yes for an answer. >> we'll find out senator tim kaine. thank you very much. we have a packed 8:00 a.m. hour ahead. speak to senator bill nelson of florida and senator michael bennett of colorado where 12 people were killed inside a movie theater in 2012. morning joe is coming right back. that's why there's otezla.

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yesterday's school shooting in parkland florida 17 dead and many injured. authorities say shots began ringing out at marjorie stone douglas high school shortly before students were supposed to be dismissed for the day. gunfire began about 2:30 in the afternoon as fire alarms started going off. florida senator bill nelson told msnbc it was the shooter who pulled the alarm so kids would come out in the hallways and he could shoot into the crowd. nelson said the shooter wore a gas mask and had smoke grenades. when deputies arrived at the school, hundreds of students were already fleeing. >> according to the broward county sheriff's office suspected 19-year-old shooter concealed himself in the crowd and among those running out of

the school. the sheriff's office says 15 victims died at the school. two more died at the hospital. and right now investigators are working to identify all of the victims. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, february 15. and joe, here we are again. >> mika, here we are again. you know, more than 30,000 people are killed by guns in the united states every year. that's according to cdc. 33,000. we've had 1607 mass shootings sisz sandy hook when we said never again. and in schools where we send our children every day to learn, 430 people have been shot in school shootings since sandy hook. and if you want to take it beyond our children being gunned down in schools, well, three of the ten deadliest shootings in u.s. history have come in the

last five months. let me say that again because this is an epidemic that's growing. three of the ten deadliest shootings in the history of the united states of america have come in the last five months. 15 of the 20 worst mass shootings in u.s. history have occurred since the turn of the century. and the column bind school shooting in 1999. and the five worst mass shootings have all occurred since 2007. i'll say it again. the five worst mass shootings in u.s. history have occurred in this past decade. three of those five were in 2016 and '17. you know, we've been talking an awful lot about vietnam lately.

unfortunately, we're looking back 15 years later. we're looking at the carnage. we're looking at the people still impacted by those deaths and yes, we americans are still haunted by the 58,000 americans who lost their lives needlessly in vietnam. and yet more than 58,000 americans will be killed by guns before the end of next year. more people will die by guns this year and next than died in a decade in vietnam. and yet, congress does nothing. the president does nothing. washington does nothing to protect our children from this continued madness and protect the rest of us from this

insanity. mika, i'm sorry, but just saying we can do nothing is not enough. americans must do something and it's not just gun control measures that most americans support. over 90% of americans believe we need enhanced background checks to keep guns away from those who are mentally ill. to keep guns away from terrorists. 95% want increased background checks on gun buyers. and, you know, what, that includes me. i'm going to be buying guns, shotguns for my children. a lot of people do that. they go out hunting and target practicing. it's a way of life, but here's the biggest kick, mika, here's the kicker to it all. the people that have grownup with guns around them like you and like me, and all of my

friends in pensacola think the nra has become extrained. and want their schools to be safe just like we want our children's schools to be safe, but the nra that we grew up with, that nra is no longer interested in protecting gun rights. they're interested in promoting gun sales. i'm all for gun rights. i'm for the second amendment. i believe it means what it means. i think americans should be able to have handguns. should be able to have shotguns. i don't want the government regulating that. i'm even uncomfortable with state carry laws. that's how much i sgdisagree wi a lot of people in the audience, but the insanity that we have seen has to be curbed and it has to be stopped and don't tell me that you need military style assault weapons to protect your home or to go hunting. you do not. and this madness must stop and

these background checks have to be enhanced. >> with us on board this morning, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john hyman. former new jersey attorney general and worked closely with police departments while in office and also with us prize winning historian john is with us as well. we have much to get to. i would like to get to some of the scenes of yesterday to set the scene for the conversation. some of the children, the kids, the teens were screaming while others ran for cover. some hid in closets under tables, shielded by their teachers. we'll talk about those teachers. some sent text messages to their moms saying they loved them. others were quoted the horrifying hotel firsthand as a shooter turned their school into the scene of a mass murder.

>> it was right across my classroom. i'm trying to keep really calm, you know. i'm not trying to panic. even though other kids are going to panic. and i'm telling other kids to silence their phone and keep calm. just pray to god. some kids are actually in pain. all bunched in in one corner. just deal through the pain. just be quiet and rather deal with the pain than risk a life or multiple lives. >> we head outside two or three minutes later. start hearing gunshots and everyone is confused panicked. doesn't know what to do. so some people started running. some people stayed back. as soon as the gunshots continued people just started running away. >> there were also stories of heroism and bravery from inside the school. the school's football coach reportedly jumped in front of students to protect them from the shooter. was thought to have survived the shooting. however last night the broward's

sheriff announced the beloved football coach had died. israel did not name the coach. part of the massacre was captured in graphic detail. video of students hunkered down inside a classroom screaming in fear as gunshots rang out in the background. it's 11 seconds and before we play it, it's definitely worth warning you it's extremely difficult to watch, but this is our reality. >>. [ gunshots ] >> and it goes on and it's much worse for the kids who were in there who remember everything, joe. >>, and, of course, for those who actually saw the gunman come in the room and shoot down friends and coaches and teachers. you know, john, there are many

things that historians will look back upon in this dysfunctional era of american politics. and shake their head. they will not understand it. i think one of the most perplexing thing. we are now 50 years removed from vietnam and the dchaos of that time. the fact that these shootings continued unabated, 90-95% of americans supported enhanced background checks. to try to make gun usage safer. to try to keep guns out of the hand of the criminally insane. to try to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists. to try to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers. and yet congress stayed with a four%. it's what we said after sandy hook. there were senators and

congressmen that chose to be with a 4% and nra instead of the 95% of the rest of us now as you look at the mass slayings that continue. assault style weapon bans, which have not always been popular. now in one recent poll supported by three-fourths of americans. other polls show seven out of ten americans support that. yet, one school shooting after another school shooting after another school shooting. las vegas, we still don't know what happened in las vegas where country music fans were gunned down. 79% of americans according to recent poll support that type of ban and yet we can't even get a vote. we can't get hearings. we can't have a real conversation about that. what will historians say? what do we tell our grandchildren? >> i have no idea. and, you know, i feel like we have this conversation i mean obviously with alarming and

horrific frequency. i think it's one of the great moral outrages of all of our lifetimes that this happens and it's one of the great political conundrums and puzzles. it's not just historians who will ask the question and not just what we'll tell the grandchildren. all you have to do is get on a plane and leave the united states of america today and spend time in any other industrialized country in the world. and one of the questions that you will get and it's the question that basically in my adult lifetime over 30 years i've been getting, but it gets more urgent and the puzzlement only gets greater. in the world today, they all look at any american and say, there's a lot -- a lot we admire about your country and things we're not sure about and some things we criticize, but what's the deal with you guys and guns? how is it that we and they ask that question. >> let me stop you. >> they ask that question. >> john, look at this chart. >> yes. >> this is the 2016 rate of

violent deaths per 100,000 people. look how high we are above every other industrialized nation. >> yes. >> and that is because we have a gun lobby. >> yes. >> that shoves millions and millions of dollars towards politicians who get millions and millions of dollars to vote with the 4% of americans. and that's what they're doing. >> coming up on "morning joe," two u.s. senators whose states have seen the damage of mass shootings firsthand, bill nelson of florida. and colorado. they join the conversation straight ahead. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to morning joe. of course we've been covering the shooting in florida school yesterday. you want to jump into the

politics involved in the gun debate. >> john said it's a puzzle. it's a conundrum why we're here today. it's really not. boil it down to one essential fact that ought to be repeated each and every day on every news program in this country. local and national. and it is this. children die in schools because the vast majority of members of congress are afraid to lose their seats. children lose their lives because politicians are afraid to lose their seats. we are 4% of the world's population and yet we own 42% of the world's guns. this -- we are at a par with yemen, a nation involved in a civil war as far as gun slaughters are concerned. we now identify off the top of our heads mass slaughters, column bind, sandy hook. virginia tech. bine, sandy hook

virginia tech. a nightclub in florida. we identify by the names. it no longer shocks the public by the sense of violence created yesterday at that high school in florida. >> look at these. >> one big reason more than any other. more than mental health, more than a history of violence in this country and the one big reason is the gun. >> yes. mike, i just say. can i just say i agree with everything you just said. to me that is just another way of talking about why the puzzlement. a, it's not clear to me. >> coward. raises the question why in mass slaughter people can't find more courage. i find that puzzling. i don't at this point believe, i don't think they're wrong that taking some of the kinds of votes that joe is talking about, votes that are 95-5 issues they would lose their seats if they took those votes. it's puzzling both they don't have more courage and puzzling they are using this calculous

that makes them think if they voted for increased background checks that would necessarily mean they would lose their seat. i think they're just wrong about that. >> joe. >> they are dead wrong about that. and it's again, 95% of americans support increased background checks. and most republicans, an overwhelming number of republican support increased background checks. overwhelming number of nra members support increased background checks. overwhelming number of americans support a ban on military styled assault weapons. those military styled assault weapons that are being used to gun down our children in schools in florida, people in nightclubs in orlando, people at country music concerts in las vegas. those are not constitutionally

protected. anybody that knows anything about the united states constitution. anybody that has read the heller decision, which actually was the most aggressively progun decision in the history of the united states supreme court. one in which i wholeheartedly embrace. even justice scalia said you have a right to have a handgun in your home to protect your home. this does not extend to military assault rifles. we talked about epidemics. we talked about the opioid crisis. we talked about the number of people who died from opioids every year. well, this is an epidemic as well. it was not an epidemic back in the 1990s. it wasn't even an epidemic after columbine. when three of the ten deadliest

shootings in american history. in 240 year history have come in the last five months, let me say that again. three of the ten deadliest shootings in american history have come in the last five months. then at that point, it becomes an epidemic. >> coming up on morning joe, senator michael bennett asked the very simple question, when did mass shootings become a normal part of american life? he joins us next on morning joe. liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the

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find the courage to help our citizens and focus on the real safety issues. not building some stupid wall for billions of dollars that has nothing to do with safety, but actually presenting us from what truly is dangerous, which is maniacs with semi automatic

weapons just slaughtering our children. it's disgusting. >> wow. that was golden state warriors head coach speaking after yesterday's mass shooting at a florida high school that left 17 dead and 14 injured. joining us now, senator michael bennett from colorado. the senator recently served as the superintendant of denver public schools and senator you've been already outspoken tweeting it's time for action. now shootings have been become a normal part of american life. what could be a reality out of washington. >> it's important for us to close the loopholes that exist in the federal background checks. that's what we've done in colorado. you ask why aren't things possible in washington? it's a mystery. i come from a western state. we have had horrible shootings.

we closed the loophole. we passed a law in legislature that limited the size of magazines. we should do the same thing in washington. have you seen any impact in the changes from your state or does it not make a difference if you cannot do something across the board. >> yes, we've seen in the impact in my state. that's a great question. we had 380,000 people apply for gun permits last year. about 8,000 of those were denied gun permits. that's about 2%. among those people that were denied guns were murders, rapists, domestic abusers, and i challenge anybody in the united states senate to come down here and make the case that colorado is not safer for having kept guns out of the hands of murders, rapists and domestic abusers. it has made a difference. we could do it at a national level. >> mike barnicle. >> senator, you're a thoughtful

guy. you have a sense in what happens in schools after school shootings. you have a sense of what happens to a community after mass slaughters in a movie theater or especially columbine more than a decade ago. and now everybody seems to stop and think for a moment because the national attention span is so short, we'll move on from this by tomorrow, but people wonder why so many mass shootings? is it contagion. is it the culture? does it have something to do with the lack of respect for life around us or frustration or mental health. all of those issues wrapped into one? what do you think. >> i think it's all of those things. we have also had a state of shootings of law enforcement officers in the state of colorado. in the last month it's unlike anything that we've ever seen. and i think the thing we can't allow ourselves to do is something you said. which is just move on to the next thing. i was struck after a you gunman

in las vegas took the lives of 59 americans and i came to work the following monday or tuesday in washington and i had a series of meetings. nobody raised the fact that we had just lost 59 americans. and what i can tell you having been a school superintendant and being the parent of three school age children in the denver public schools, is that they don't move on. they carry this with them day after day after day. through their middle school years. through their high school years. this is a burden our children are having to carry that we didn't have to carry. it is deeply unfair. it's not just the loss of life which is horrible and horrific. it's the effect it has on the culture and on the lives of our children. we ought to do something about that. do something with the kind of restrictions i described earlier. we ought to do something to

support mental health in the country which we haven't done in a generation. i don't know who we're waiting for. nobody else is going to come and do this work. we need to do this work. >> they are working on a bill with cory gardener. for daca on immigration and what's is status of that? are we going to have movement in any way, shape, or form on immigration? >> i hope so. so colorado is third democratic, third republican. cory gardener is a republican and i came together on a bill that provides a pathway to citizenship for the dreamers and also does border security, including some of what the president has asked for in terms of a law. now we're going to vote on four bills today. parts of our bill have been taken up by another bipartisan bill. i hope we get 60 votes to resolve the situation for the dreamers. this is another case like we

were talking about earlier. another case where the vast majority of americans support resolving the uncertainty for the dreamers. the question is congress listening to the american people? >> thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you for having me. i'm grateful. up next. after yesterday's mass shooting, the second in his state in less than two years, senator marco rubio says it's too soon to talk about gun reform. florida's senior center bill nelson says enough is enough and he will join us next. i just got my cashback match,

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book now at lq.com what can a president [ do in thirty seconds? he can fire an fbi director who won't pledge his loyalty. he can order the deportation of a million immigrant children. he can threaten an unstable dictator armed with nuclear weapons. he can go into a rage and enter the nuclear launch codes. how bad does it have to get before congress does something?

we welcome him any time we wants to talk about the actual issues. he's got a lot of talent. >> whenever it's not too early to talk about it. >> he has a lot of talent and i wish he would use it on this issue. joining us now, someone who will talk about this. from capitol hill, democratic senator bill nelson from florida. is this okay to talk about gun control policy at this time, sir? >> not only to tack about it, but to screw up or reserve to do something about it. here is an automatic weapon. assault rifle, just look in florida. pulse knight club a couple of

years ago. a year ago, the fort lauderdale airport. and now this. this is just the state of florida. we certainly ought to talk about all the other things that everybody is talking about. mental health, protection at schools, which we can't have alarm camp. got to get right down to the nub and that is should assault weapons be legal? and you all know the reality. we can't even get if you're on the terrorist watch list, you shouldn't have a gun. we can't even get that passed. so you see the problem. >> it's always hard to do an interview after a day and a night like what you have been through. what are you hearing from parents? just regular things from regular

parents? what are you hearing from them on the ground? what are you hearing from the educate cay terrors that were there. ors that were there. between the pulse nightclub shooting and this, has any perception changed? any sense of how people are experiencing these dramatic circumstances changed? yes, after pulse it's amazing how the whole community came together and assault weapon was clearly one of the topics. we're all parents and those are all our children. and if we were the parent of one of those children that died yesterday, we would be saying, why is it legal to purchase the gun that fired off so many rounds from multiple clips that

eotherwise my child might be alive. that's what is going through the community and i can tell you i've talked to him, the superintendant of schools. that's what is going through his mind as well. >> senator it's john here. i want to ask you this question. i agree with you about assault weapons. we're on the same page about that. here's the question i want to get at which is why is it that assault weapons are being used so much more frequently in these settings in the last couple of years than they were five, 10, 20 years ago. there's been a ramp up in mass shootings over the last 20-30 years, but an explosion of the mass shootings and school shootings in the last 36 months. what do you think accounts for that. weapons have been available for a long time. people are using them more frequently now. >> the easy access to them.

john, you know i support the second amendment. i grew up on a ranch. i've always had guns. i've hunted all my life. i still hunt with my son, but an ar 15 is not for hunting. it's for killing. these weapons are now so easy to get and now with all the publicity about them, there's always those out there that now say well, i want one too. and that's the proliferation of these weapons that we're seeing. >> senator bill nelson of florida. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thanks, mika. the other big story this morning. trump administration struggles to get many of the top people permanent security clearance. we'll discuss the significance of that when "morning joe" comes right back. cup. cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks? let me show you.

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joining us now, democratic congressman, ted deutsche of florida. district includes mortgagery douglas stone high school. thank you for getting in front of the camera for us. arjorie douglas stone high school. thank you for getting in front of the camera for us.

the families who have lost loved ones have all been notified after a during wait. there is still a number of people in the hospital who are in critical condition. we're waiting to get more information from the hospital. and the stories are just starting to come out. about the lives that were taken. the kids who had such bright futures that were snatched away from them. you know, when we went -- yesterday was just the worst day imaginable here. you think when you wake up the next morning, sunlight might help. it is worse. because now we're learning more about who died and the families impacted and what kids had to endure yesterday. it's a really awful situation. >> any sense of how many are in critical condition and life-threatening condition. >> i don't know. i'm headed to the hospital from here. i can't want to get ahead of the

doctor. so i know that they're -- there's some kids who are being treated, but. i drove past an elementary school that feeds in. in this amazing community, great kids, great families. kind of place anyone would want to live and raise their family. and elementary school this morning, we saw parents clutching their kids hands just a little bit tighter looking over their shoulders. realization is that's happening in schools in every part of the country just like we're enduring here. the tragedy that happened yesterday is just another tragedy in this case. 17 dead. it's one of the -- not just a terrible school shooting. one of the worst mass shootings in the country's history. everyone shouldn't have to experience what we're feeling here now. in order for us to take action.

we should all be focused on trying to find ways to stop this kind of senseless violence that is all too regular across the country. >> congressman, ted deutsche. thank you. best of luck to you, sir. we'll be right back. ever. as the world leader in unmanned aerial systems, we're attracting the world's best talent to central new york. and turning the airport into a first-class transportation hub. all while growing urban areas into vibrant places to live and work. across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov. to grow your business with us in new york state, the markets change... at t. rowe price... our disciplined approach remains. global markets may be uncertain... but you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world. call us or your advisor... t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

everyone has a thing. that binge watch over the weekend thing. more checking-in or checking out things. that triple-double thing doing it yourself or tagging a friend thing. more revolutions in the making thing. that play like a girl thing.

that four-legged friends thing. at&t gives you more for your thing. more entertainment, internet, and unlimited plans. more for your thing. yeah, that's our thing. internal white house documents obtained by nbc news show that more than 130 political appointees working in the executive office of the president did not have permanent security clearances as of november of 2017. that includes the president's family members and senior advisers, ivana trump and jared kushner. as well as white house counsel, don mcgahn, social media director. dan scavino. and director of initiatives. the white house wouldn't comment. in all, 47 people in positions that directly report to the

president were working with some form of interim security clearance a year after the president trump presidential transition began. that's about a quarter of all political and at least 85 political appointees in the white house. vice president's office and national security counsel were working without permanent security clearances. at the national security council, 42% of those listed in the documents had only interim security clearances as of november. joining us now, msnbc ari, he has a piece in the "new york times" about the mueller probe. also, former undersecretary of state for diplomacy and distinguished fellow at the digital research lab. rick stengel. we'll explain what that lab does in just a moment and how it relates to russia's interference in our elections. but joe, i think one of the

problems we're seeing with these interim security clearances is that, i mean, we personally have seen people -- and have named some who are in positions that they're not qualified for, which is sort of double trouble. >> well, you could -- i guess that's more subjective but i think most people in the foreign policy field, ari, would guess that, but even the fbi and others that have been looking into their backgrounds simply can't give them a permanent security clearance and of course the white house foolishly tried to blame the fbi. the fbi director came up and said, listen, we've done all we can do, we let you people know brother not going to be able to give them permanent security clearances. yet these people handled some of the most delicate issues in the trump administration the first year. >> there's a legal problem any time that you make a decision after getting the information because you are essentially engaging with a type of

negligence, engaging with a risk you don't need to take. any single case can be argued. the family member case can be argued. the numbers you just had on the screen show that this is larger. this is a pattern. and the personnel problem, he said he hired the best people. that's clearly not the case in the eyes of the fbi. these are not the best people with regard to their bailt to clear the hurdle of a screening that's applied in both parties across many administrationings. >> and of course if you're working in the white house you're going to get priority over everybody else, midlevel staffers on capitol hill. it's not like their cases weren't prioritized. they just couldn't pass muster and they're handling some of the most classified information every single day. that's certainly what we found out about porter, that he handled all of the documents going to the president. ari, your article in "the new york times" about the -- donald trump's slow moving saturday

night massacre. a lot of people are fearful of that. we did, though, talk yesterday to senator langford on set and have heard from a lot of other republicans. paul ryan even saying hey, we want the mueller investigation to continue. want it to go to its final and full ending. and let the chips fall where they may. where do we stand right now? >> i think you just put your finger on it when you said final and full ending.

which was a thing they couldn't do. and they learned that was not true because in three days, the lawyers at that office were back in court, working within the system that our founders set up, where there are checks and balances, and ultimately that firing was deemed illegal by the court. the difference with trump is he is canny and on matters of self-interest, i argue he is a quick study and he seems to be finding a way around trying to get results that i think nixon was pursuing without the same spectacle. it's a slow grinding of all these different officers. what do we do about it? what matters in a constitutional democracy? i would argue the key is that everyone keep their eye on where the probe is headed on rod rossstein having the freedom or whoever is in that post to release the report publicly so that the citizens of the country can eyeball it. if the report finds no

wrongdoing by the president or only allegations against others, that could be good for the white house but we've got to have that clear process. >> americans at the end have to know no man is above the law, even if he's president of the united states. i want to get back to you, talk specifically about these clearances, security clearances. you know me, i was just a dumb country lawyer that stumbled into congress. i was elected four times. i was a member of the armed services committee. i've got to say, after my first election, if i had somebody on staff that couldn't get clearance to help me out on the armed services committee, as one of 435, i would have gotten rid of them. if they can't clear this person, i can't have them working for me. because i'm going to need the best staffers around me. our constitution -- actually the one area as you know better than most that the president's given so much unchecked power has to do with foreign policy.

it is in this area that his staff members and his son-in-law were running around the white house with access to classified information on the most important issues vital to america's national security interests and they couldn't even get a permanent security clearance. how could you have done your job at state even under that circumstance? let alone how can the president do his job right? >> well, you couldn't do your job right, joe. one of the things i realized, having put people through the clearance process, as he said the other day, the whole clearance process is, indeed, broken. but that doesn't mean someone has a clearance, that's taking six months, a year, you know something's wrong. i think what's going on in the background is the fbi and department of justice was looking at these people and thinking this is the president's son-in-law, this is a very trusted aide, what are we going to do? and, by the way, i was stunned that don mcgahn does not have

the highest clearance. that's absolutely stunning. it's stunning because how does the regular work of the nsa and the white house get done when you have people that don't have top security clearances? >> rick, tell us about your position at the security council. >> when i was at the state department, i saw the rise in russian disinformation around the world. one of the greatest threats to democracies and america. and then we started seeing it here in 2016. the digital forensics research lab at the atlantic council exposes disinformation in real time. they focus on russian disinformation. i saw what they were doing when i was at the state department. they did a fantastic study called hiding in plain sight about what russia and putin specifically was doing in ukraine. this to me is the new kind of journalism that every news organization has to have. a kind of digital forensics unit that exposes disinformation and lies in real time and how they do it. it's a really important work. >> all right, rick stengel, ari

melber, thank you. >> i want to put something out. >> okay. >> alex says no. >> i want to hear it. >> it was going to be really interesting. it was going to be very interesting. we'll talk about it tomorrow. >> we want to mention, the president will be addressing the nation at 11:00 today on the shooting in parkland, florida. and that's according to press secretary sanders. joe, as we wrap up for the morning, what are your final thoughts? i take it you'll be writing about this today. >> yes, i will. i think my five thoughts are what i talked to peggy about earlier. our children are traumatized. our parents are traumatized. afraid to send our children to school. afraid what happens when our children are sent to country music concert. afraid even what's happening, peggy, when we send our children, our loved ones and they go off to church. it's just, again, peggy, it just

requires that our leaders in congress step up and become more aligned where 90% of americans are. >> i think that's true. i also think i was hearing this morning people speaking of the shooter's motive. i think the motive we already know. it's always the motive. it's i have murder in my heart. the question is why are there so many murderous hearts right now. >> mika, what are your final thoughts? >> i just think it's, you know, hearing anybody in washington saying now is not the time is old, it's been used too many times. there are too many bodies in the wake of this conversation that we can't have at this appropriate time. i'd say to marco rubio, step up, be a man, talk about it right now. or to anybody else who tries to deflect the question about what to do about guns and assault weapons in our society, step up,

be a man, talk about it and stop thinking about the nra and your next campaign donation. just stop. everyone knows what you're doing. it's time. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. thanks, joe. to marco rubio, you don't have to step up and be a man, step up and be a human. 17 people are dead. killed. when a 19-year-old recently expelled student goes on a shooting rampage in a florida school on valentine's. >> i know your best friend was shot right next to you. >> yes. >> do you know how she's doing? >> unfortunately, she didn't make it. >> frightened parents rushed to the scene hoping for the best but of course fearing for the worst. >> she was sending us texts like saying i love you, i'm sorry and all