america mourns another mass shooting. this time a gunman targets high school students in florida, prompting president trump to quickly declare no child, no teacher should ever be in danger in an american school. well, that's something everyone agrees should be the case. so why can't our elected officials agree on how to get it done? good afternoon, i'm ali velshi. stephanie is off today, i'm pleased to welcome back catherine rampell, in for stephanie, a columnist from "the

washington post" focusing on economics. it's a treat to have you with us. >> thank you for having me back. it's a somber week, i'm from south florida and heading back in a few days for various reasons, including to cover this. happy to be here for now and to talk about the news of the week. >> and there is a lot to talk about. besides the controversy swirling in the white house, much of the talk in washington was in fact about budgets, about spending, about debt and deficits, until america's unfortunate record with gun violence reared its ugly head again. residents in broward county, florida, continue to reel, days after a lone gunman targeted students and teachers at marjory stoneman douglas high school. nikolas cruz, on the left there, is charged with 17 counts of murder. authorities say he used an ar-15 semi-automatic rifle during his rampa rampage. he did attend douglas last year until the school expelled him. local authorities have commented on his disturbing social media

posts and things that he was said to have written in the run-up to the shooting. president trump promised to help coordinate a federal response including, he said, tackling the difficult issue of mental health. >> yes. this is sort of a rich comment from the president. of course he talked about mental health. he didn't talk about guns. >> didn't say the word once in a seven-minute comment. >> pretty astonishing, in fact. even if one buys that the issue is mental health, trump ought to put his money where his mouth is. if you look at his budget, also released this week, he axes lots of sources of mental health services for americans, including through medicaid. there are hundreds of billions of dollars in his budget that are cut from medicaid. and medicaid serves something like a fifth of people who have mental illness in this country, a quarter of people who have serious mental illness. basically one out of every ten medicaid dollars spent goes towards mental health. this is incredibly in the wrong direction if in fact you believe this is the source of our gun

violence program or if more generally you care about mental health in this country. >> it may be some of the source of gun violence. because in this country we have done this, we have moved back from really good treatment in mental health, we don't really keep accurate records. there's a stigma with going to your doctor or employer and saying you're suffering from mental health issues. it's a copout for gun manufacturers, as long as you occupy yourselves with discussions on how to identify and treat mental health in this country, which we should do a better job of, i agree. >> i absolutely agree, we need more protections for those who deal with mental illnesses of various kinds. there are lots of good arguments for why we should shore up treatment in this country and destigmatize these illnesses that many americans suffer from.

>> we still have too many guns. i am not an antigun guy, i am a gun owner. but almost the entire world recognizes that you require reasonable and adequate controls on guns. here's why it's not going to happen. the nra, and conservative american tater bill kristol comments on this too, the nra gives a lot of money to politics. this is money that people have received over their political careers. john mccain there, you can see he's almost at $8 million. that's because he also ran for president and they put a lot of money into presidential campaigns. richard burr, roy blunt, thom tillie, cory gardner. it's money spent on preventing people from running against you or attack ads on components. they will support me, let's say, as a candidate, but the minute i blink and decide i want to have

restrictions on one little part of guns. >> even if they're widely supported by the public. >> which they are, they'll find someone like you who won't take that view and the support i got will then move to you. >> it's important to note also it's not just the money. the nra is very effective at mobilizing its base. when i talk to politicians about this, they're not only afraid of losing donations, or donations going to their opponent. they're also worried about the small minority of americans who feel very strongly about the second amendment and that there should be not any restrictions on the second amendment. they'll come out to vote, they will come out to rallies, be very effective, and freak out politician. >> richard painter said the other day, it's like a protection racket for politicians, and we have to understand that. back in washington, president trump's newly released budget proposal makes it look like he would make drastic cuts to government spending. that would make sense with a republican-controlled white house and congress but that's unlikely to happen. first, budgets are rarely

enacted as written. second, there is a new normal on capitol hill, one in which republicans, including so-called deficit hawks, are spending big, deficits be damned. that's not how it used to be. here is then-vice-presidential candidate paul ryan back in 2012. >> in this generation, a defining responsibility of government is to steer our nation clear of a debt crisis while there is still time. >> there's nothing wrong with governments borrowing money. for facts' sake, republicans may want to take their anti-debt rhetoric of the past a little more seriously. once upon a time, public benefits like social security, medicare, and medicaid were the fastest growing share of the united states budget. now, with ballooning deficits and rising rates, interest payments are on track to grow faster, this as both parties reach a deal to boost government

spending by $400 million over the next two years. newly-enacted tax cuts are set to add $1.5 trillion to deficits over the next ten years. the u.s. treasury expects to double what it borrows this year compared to last in large part because of the drop in tax revenues. all told, the federal government has run up $20 trillion in debt which has gone to pay for wars in the middle east and combat recession at home. the u.s. government now spends more than 6% of its budget to service that national debt. but with borrowing forecasts increasing, and rates inching upward, that share is expected to double to 12% by 2023. while borrowing isn't a bad thing, servicing all that debt is bound to take from other parts of the budget that americans benefit from. what we've seen on average since the 1960s is that nondefense discretionary spending has fallen, recently hitting historic lows. that's spending that goes to things like health programs, research, infrastructure, education, and training. that means less money for things like roads and bridges, which

both republicans and democrats say they want. and more going to service debt. simply put, if every extra dime we borrow is now going to cost us more to pay off in the future, shouldn't we make sure we're paying for the right things? >> it's important to remember also that it's not only about paying for the right things but when you are making those payments. >> right. >> when you are running up debt. we saw that clip from paul ryan where he was very concerned about deficits when we were basically recovering from the great recession, from this major financial crisis. >> which is one of those things where a lot of economists say, if you're running you be debt, in a recession might be the time to do it. >> exactly. the time to expand deficits is when the economy needs it, when the economy is not doing well, when you want the government to sort of step in and make up for lagging private sector demand. instead we're doing the exact opposite. right now unemployment is at 4.1%. the economy is doing quite well. we are in one of the longest recoveries on record. >> wages are starting to pick up in a way that people can feel.

>> right. now is not the time to be running up big deficits. not only because of where we are in the business cycle but or reasons, including that we're issuing a lot of debt right now, the fed is also dumping some of its own debt that it bought years ago onto the market. and meanwhile, while there's a lot of u.s. debt for sale, there are probably going to be fewer buyers of that debt because of things going on in europe. >> the next effect makes interest rates even higher. as they accumulate more debt, the costs of servicing that debt are going up. by the way, these permanent trillion dollar deficits, you'll hear a lot of talk about entitlement reform. as stephanie and i always say and i think catherine would agree, there may be space for real entitlement reform. but the bottom line is, even if you did what people want to do, we may not be able to balance budgets in the future just with entitlement reform because of all the stuff that's being taken on. >> right. there are so many sacred cows in the budget. all the main drivers of our debt, whether they're interest payments, whether they're entitlements, whether they're

military spending, all these things have become new third rails, essentially. >> that's right. while we're talking about budgets and spending, the white house rolled out plans for refurbishing america's public infrastructure. >> to me this is a very, very sexy subject. the media doesn't find it sexy. i find it sexy, because i was always a builder. i always knew how to build on time, on budget. that's what we want here. >> well, if there's a show in the media that does find infrastructure sexy, you're watching it. president trump, he's calling for $200 billion in new federal spending that he says is going to spur $1.5 trillion of total infrastructure investment over ten years. half the federal funds would be used to incentivize state and local governments to go out and raise their own money or partner with the private sector on big projects. that means the federal government under trump's plan would no longer provide the lion's share of funding for projects that it's involved in, but only provide at most 20% of the investment. this is interesting, because this is a big break in the way

things have been done in the past. >> yes. it's a big break from the way things have been done in terms of who's funding what. it's also an odd plan in that he's sort of giving with one hand and taking with the other. again, if you look at his budget released this week, there are offsetting cuts to all sorts of other infrastructure spending, transportation, water, background band, all these other projects. it's misunderstanding for the public to think that because trump is pushing this infrastructure plan, that we're going to have a net increase in infrastructure spending. we're just not. >> by the way, when i talk about the 20%, it's not unreasonable to expect that the federal government put some money in, state and local governments put some money in, the private sector put some money in. that kind of public/private partnership is popular around the world. but going back to 1960, the share of public spending on infrastructure has been 40 to 50%. right now highways are an 80/20

split. mass transit projects are split 50/50. trump's proposal of 20% from the federal government is the lowest level of federal investment that we've had historically. >> right. nobody i think will argue that we don't have a problem with our infrastructure. we have lots of crumbling infrastructure. our airports, our roads, our bridges, et cetera. it's not clear that this plan is going to get through both, because it's a break with what we've seen in the past, and as i said, there are all of these offsetting cuts. and besides, given that it seems to emphasize private partnerships so heavily. >> which is not terrible, but the private sector has different priorities than the public sector. >> right. the private sector cares about things where they can get a return on their investment, for example through tolls. part of the problems with infrastructure in this country don't have that source of revenue. you're going to have a toll road on a school, on every bridge in the country? that's just not going to fly and

you're not going to get the investment we need in this country. coming up, donald trump wants to replace food stamps with deliveries from the government. why that leaves a sour taste for some. and two of the best minds in tech say they're out to achieve an elusive goal, living longer, healthy lives.

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>> reporter: researchers and scientists are receiving tens of millions of dollars from tech giants. the x-prise foundation is a nonprofit that hosts public competitions that aim to tackle some of the globe's biggest challenges. last year some of his organization honored scientists pushing for a breakthrough in alzheimer's treatment. one doctor has pioneered the use of stem cells to treat a range of diseases. now they're coming together to form celularity, a new company which is harvesting stem cells from discarded placentas. the stakes couldn't be higher.

by 2030, one in five americans will be over the age of 65. as humans live longer, the diseases of aging will impact us all. >> joining us now are these two guys who i admire a lot, the executive chairman of x-prise and the founder and chairman of celularity with peter, formerly of celgene. what are you guys trying to fix? what are people going to benefit from that you're working on? >> ali, we've been spending the last two decades trying to uncover a platform technology that could be broadly deployed to restore the regenerative engine in all of us that keeps us healthy long. and it turns out that one of the most powerful tools are the leftover cells and tissues found in the placenta after a healthy

pregnancy. >> and it's not even controversial like stem cells. >> at the birth of stem cells, people were concerned about where you got them. the placenta is a waste material. we're a green energy approach to biology. this is material literally found in the biohazard bag, and we're harvesting the cells and tissues and turning them into tools that we believe can arrest or delay the degenerative processes that paralyze us in our aging. >> historically the government played a major role in funding research that generated bre breakthroughs in health research and other areas. recently we've seen the government pulling away from basic research, giving fewer dollars or not increasing dollars to research. to what extent can the private sector fill in those gaps? >> if you think about it, the

whole longevity space is a multitrillion dollar opportunity. we're backed by our previous parent company celgene, by a number of incredible venture capitalists to do this work. but this concept of using the incredible tools that bob and his 120 scientists have developed over the last 20 years to help address cancer and degenerative diseases and ultimately aging is helping everybody. as you make people healthier, they can work longer and it increases the gdp of a nation. it makes people feel better. it reduces the waste in the whole system. it's a great economic investment for private industry as well. >> and from my vantage point, the way that government can help advance these technologies is to provide regulatory relief, allow, for example, the fda to be more progressive in their

mindset. in fact the new head of the fda, dr. scott gottlieb, has already made monumental impact on the way regenerative medicine is being approached. >> until ten years ago i thought i wanted to live for as long as they could possibly make me live. and then the effects and proximity of dementia and alzheimer's started to set in on me. let's say you guys succeed at what you're doing. aren't we all going to suffer from dementia and alzheimer's? >> what we recognize is that our bodies are continually undergoing a process of renovation and renewal. that process is driven by the population of stem cells that reside in every tissue and every organ. believe it or not, over time the size of that reservoir shrinks and the quality of the cells in that reservoir becomes corrupted. our partner craig ventor, our good friend, talking about the dna, which in every nucleus, in

every cell, is damaged over time. the same thing in dna in stem cells. by taking cells collected at the instant of birth, processing them, storing them away, you've put in suspended animation that biological software. it's like the master reboot disk that when you introduce it, it restores that biological function. >> it's amazing, guys, i want to spend another 90 minutes talking about this. >> as you know, we're also getting ready to launch an alzheimer's x-prise project, rick he hedelman is helping to launch that, to see if we can slow alzheimer's down. >> thank you, guys, for being here. coming up, bloated bureaucracy. president trump wants to dial back food stamps and replace them with prepared food boxes delivered by the government. what could go wrong? places you really want to go.

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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." our velshi and rampal today. the trump administration introduced an idea this week to scale back on food stamps and replace them with a food box delivery program. budget director mick mulvaney claims the program the administration is calling america's harvest box will cut cost by taking advantage of wholesale prices. president trump's proposed budget would cut s.n.a.p., which is food stamps, by $17.2 billion, more than 20% of last year's total cost. some critics have said the idea is offensive and like something from the great depression. i'm sort of just thinking it's straini strange, it's weird. it's a logistical nightmare. >> you're creating a new bu bureaucra bureaucracy, essentially, that the government has to maintain. a lot of the food will likely be wasted since you don't get to choose what's in this box, if you're lactose intolerant, it doesn't matter, they're going to send you milk. seems wasteful. >> the concept being they should

be able to save money because the government is buying it wholesale. >> i'm skeptical. >> thank you for being with us, catherine rampal of "the washington post." that does it for "velshi & ruhle." we'll talk to you later. have a great weekend. today, big thinking in the finger lakes is pushing the new new york forward. we're the number one dairy and apple producers in the eastern united states supported by innovative packaging that extends the shelf life of foods and infrastructure upgrades that help us share our produce with the world. all across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov

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