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puts our students in far more danger. it's concealed. so this crazy man who walked in wouldn't even know who it is that has it. that's good. that's not bad. that's good. and a teacher would have shot the hell out of him before he knew what happened. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy." the good guy with a gun. it's something we heard for years from the nra, members and politicians they purchased. you heard it again this week after a 19-year-old gun mran shmranman shot and killed 17 students and teachers in parkland, florida. we've heard public outcry, thoughts and prayers, brief silence from the right and a roaring defense of guns followed by inaction from politicians and silence again. by the "washington post's" count even after losing 1,077 americans to mass shootings since 1966, many of them

children, we've not imposed adequate laws to prevent massacres like the one in parkland. despite the fact that polls have shown the american public overwhelmingly supports sensible gun regulations. the nra has stood in the way every time. shifting the conversation from getting guns off the streets to mental health or video games or conspiracy theories that the black president is sending the black helicopters to confiscate the red state guns. this time something feels different. the survivors of the massacre at marjory stoneman douglas, teenagers, some as young as 15, have spent every waking moment since last wednesday not only grieving classmates, processing what happened to them but focusing their passion, their talent an energy on disrupting the pattern. and putting the nra and the rest of the gun lobby on the defensive. these kids are so affected some on the right has spun conspiracy theorys to undermine them. even in the face of that these students are working tire lessl

to make sure this never happens again. joining me now is david hogg, a senior at marjory stoneman douglas. thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> my condolences to you on the loss of your friends. i think what a lot of the country has been so impressed with is the poise of students like yourself. how quickly did you guys organize and decide to turn your grief into action? >> i would say within two days. eventually what happened is the same day of the 14509ing, i went home and i immediately grabbed my camera and rode my book three miles as fast as we could to document there and to get on the news to make sure people would not forget about this, make them realize this would not just be another mass shooting. that's what i tried doing that day. >> you are a young journalist, managing editor at tv station at

your school. was the instinct more about your training, the training you have given yourself at the young age of 17 as a journalist or something about your generation, you and your friends, you just document things on social media. this is the way you guys operate. >> yes to both. as a journalist i wanted to make sure even if our souls were left behind on that class roll floor, our voices would echo to the hams of congreshalls of congres. i wanted to know if i did die, i wanted to die doing what i loved doing the most and telling the stories about these children that were massacred. >> as a parent you have to know how heartbreaking it is to hear a 17-year-old say if i die. you're not in the military, you're a kid. the idea that your generation is having to reckon with the idea of death. how long and how young did it start that you at school had to be trained what to do in the

event of something like this? >> it started in high school. we had a meeting with every teacher about a month before, i would say, where we all talked about what to do in these scenarios. nothing could prepare us for this. we really did think this was a drill the entire time. we were out there i'm thinking those are some realistic blanks as i was running inside. we didn't know it was a drill until we started reading headlines. i think around that time i started recording. that's when i knew this wasn't a drill. >> talk a bit about the way your teachers reacted. we had the president of the united states, the nr ooshgs a others saying what would have changed the dynamic of what happened in that school was armed teachers. >> think of how many armed people were there and didn't take action. we can't pay our teachers a living wage, why buy them

glocks? at our school we have to print 90% of our worksheets because we don't have enough money for ink and things, but now we have money to pay teachers for glocks. here is my question, what if there was a student that picked up the gun after the teacher was taken out and they're trying to defend themselves and misidentified as a school shoodeshood shooter. the response will be you should have more school ids. no you shouldn't. nobody will have time to look down and they won't take that chance. >> one of your classmates talked about fitting the description of the shooter. he's latino. same description. if he had had a gun for protection and concealed carry, it could have been tragic for him. >> absolutely. that's what people need to realize. we can bring as many security guards on as we want and arm as many teachers as we want, we need limitations.

the same way you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you shouldn't own an ar 15 if you're mentally ill. >> you have acontractedspreadin conspiracy theories about you. how has that impacted you? >> i've gotten so many more press people covering me and helping people not forget about this. >> i'm not sure how much you know about miriam hammer, chief lobbyist for the nra. this is a memo i will show you that she september out on february 22nd, two days ago, to the nra and to members of the florida gun lobby. coming out specifically against

a number of things you have come for. against waiting periods for long guns, against raising the age limit for getting an ar-15, against banning assault weapons, against banning bump stocks. >> the thing that i hate most about that is the members of the nra that these people are supposed to be representing. they are misrepresented about them. 99% of the people in the nra are amazing americans who want to stand up for what they believe in. i respect that. it's the people at the toch of thehe it's the people at the toch of theh top of the nra who responsible for this. what's growing here is the amount of gun sales in this country. that's what the nra is trying to serve at the top.

not it's members. >> you sent out a few tweets this week. you tweeted senator marco rubio who this week on cnn said he's not for banning assault weapons. you called on him to return the nra's contributions to him. why do you think politicians should return the nra's money? >> it's blood money. they won't get re-elected again. they should return it while they have the funds to do so and work as hard as they can to save these childrens lives. the fact that marco rubio showed up at that town hall at cnn is amazing to me. i respect him for that but the fact that our governor rick scott didn't screams volumes. the thing i hate most about this situation, it's being politicized. rock scott is trying to make a move for the senate where he's -- if you notice, a lot of the gun legislation and reforms they're trying to implement go in effect next year, right around his election? is that a coincidence? i think it's not.

>> you're planning a pretty big march, a march for our lives, as a parent it's tragic for me to hear y'all say march for your lives. you attracted this -- this march has attracted a lot of support, oprah winfrey donated, george clooney donated. gucci has donated $500,000. the right is claiming you all are being led around by celebrities, by george soros. you're response. >> i'm so sorry to each and every one of you out there attacking us as witnesses and victims of this incident it's saddening to see how many of you lost faith in america. we haven't and we are not going to. you might as well stop now, we'll outlive you. >> that's a good point. you're too young to vote. you might be able to register soon. >> do you plan on taking this movement to the ballot box? >> absolutely. we have to. if we ever want to end this, we have to start at the federal level.

that is where the law is supreme. that's where we have to take action. because of the framers making sure we could have a peaceful transition of power with congress and the house of representatives, we can take each one of these people out and make sure they're replaced with somebody not corrupt and looking to get greedy blood money from the nra. we are going to. the i would say the previous generations that let this happen are the lazy ones. >> have you heard from parents, friends of yours that are republicans on who have changed their minds? >> i interviewed a junior nra member that was supposed to go out and shoot guns for their 18th birthday. during the shooting i e interviewed them. they changed their views on guns and brought it into another perspective. i'm not trying to push a liberal or conservative agenda. i don't want to have a debate as a republican or democrat. none of us should.

what we want do do is save childrens lives. how that's done is up to the politicians, but we should absolutely continue to take action. we've seen some promises, but those promises turn into lies, blood is spattered across the walls of our classrooms as a result. >> amazing. can you stay with me? >> absolutely. >> we'll talk more about this and keep this conversation going after the break.

these are twitter savvy warriors. i think donald trump and the nra met their match. >> a lot of members of congress fired an ar-15 and they heard the loud sound of that weapon, but most of them have not been on the receiving end of that sound like these kids have. i think it's a much larger question being put to the country through the voices of these kids. what type of country do we want to live in?

all right. we're back. i'm talking with david hogg, one of the leaders of the new student movement called never again. these are the students who survived the massacre at marjory stoneman douglas in parkland, florida i'm also joined by ryan deich, another classmate who was kind enough to join us as well. i will give my condolences to you on the loss of your friends. this is a trauma that the people in the military have to go through and deal with and be treated and get mental health counseling for. have you been able to access counseling services in the wake of what you've went through? >> we've had plenty of access. there are grief counselors throughout parkland and going through the school. frankly we don't have enough time to deal with the grief just like that. we have to take action. we have to continue to speak out with people. we really started this grassroots movement where we're going -- i've been pushing face-to-face contact with anybody that we can get ahold of. with any representatives, with

even just regular people. when we went to tallahassee this past week, we met with leon high school. and everyone out there, they were a huge help. they were supportive. i just met with people outside. i stayed with them. i spoke to them because everyone is just a person in this. everyone is equal. we all just have to stand i and say we don't want to take this anymore. >> you had face-to-face contact with marco rubio . let's play that. >> when i was in fifth grade i had to hide in a bathroom for three hours and just waiting with my teacher and nearly 20 other kids to see just because a shooter has come to our town. now seven years later i'm in a closet with 19 other kids, waiting, fearing for my own life. why do we have to be the ones to do this? why do we have to speak out to the capitol? why do we have to march on

washington just to save innocent lives? >> we don't have his answer. were you satisfied with the response you got? >> i was satisfied that he showed up to the town hall. i was satisfied to meet with marco rubio face-to-face. he's somebody i followed for years. but that was a sad answer to see from a poll signals. but it is a political answer. what was his answer. >> so much double talk. i can't even remember it. he kept going back and forth. >> marco rubio like so many other politicians are professional side steppers when it comes to questions. you know this when you ask a politician a question, even if it's a yes or no question, they can't even answer yes or no. when marco rubio was asked if he would take donations from the nra, he did not say yes or no. he said yes, he would, in a long answer trying to distract the american public. >> he also said he's not for

banning assault rifles. he won't really step away from the nra. but a lot of people are. i want to ask you about one of the big outgrowths of the movement that you all have started. it has been a boycott of the nra or dropping the nra by a lot of companies. alamo, true car, enterprise, hertz, they had these deals where people who were nra members could get discounts with them. they are going away. you think this boycott movement is the way to go. >> it's one of many ways to go. fedex still has not dropped their deal with the nra. the ceo is one of the biggest donors to the nra, and we have to take care of them. as a result if they are not going to, we have to take action as consumers, we have the power in a business just like we have power in democracy. >> one thing about florida, it matters to the state t is a tourism state. it has now been on the international stage as a state

where kids don't feel safe going to school. do you think that the fear of politicians of florida's image as a tourism destination could push people to take your side, which is the rational side. >> i think as far as tourism goes, we still have disney world. people will still be coming there. whether they feel safe or not. frankly this is beyond florida. this is the nation as a whole. florida is definitely where we started. but it's everywhere. these guns are out there on the streets. people who may be unstable are able to get it, just as anybody else. and even though there have been things placed, like the age limit that they're talking about or the bump stocks, they're just steps. they're single actions to this really long problem that has been facing our country. we're not out here saying we want to take guns. i don't want to take someone's gun, but they need to deserve

it. >> that's why you're marching on washington. >> in part, yeah. going back to the last question, it's important for people to realize a lot of these florida politicians won't meet with us. only one republican lawmaker met with us when we went to tallahassee. they want the american public to forget and move on from this session and have them get re-elected through name recognition. they want us to forget. we're not going to because we're not going to let that happen. we'll find justice for our 17 friends and thousands of other there's a can and will continue to die. because they won't listen to us, we'll have to make sure we take control of some of the state's economy and make sure these politician who are lobbied by these businesses to take action. they're not doing it with us. >> there's been a few people who attacked you guys. david largclark, who is no long sh longer a sheriff because someone died in his jail, tweeted the

well organized effort by florida school students demanding gun control has george soros fingerprints all over it similar to how he highjacked and exploited black peoples emotions regarding use of force and the cop hating black lives matter movement. >> you disgust me, honestly. seriously we had friends that died there, you're trying to make this about you? you're absolutely disgusting. and you should be out there taking action. we're trying as hard as we can here. we don't deserve to be attacked by adults, we're teenagers. the fact we have to take action and stand out here and take action because politicians won't. >> and donald trump jr. liking a tweet calling you guys crisis actors. >> it's ridiculous to those people who don't think it's real. if you don't think it's real, stand out there at those

memorials. the other day i spent four hours either at the school or at pichb tra pine trails park in silence, not speaking to anybody. taking time to be there. you have to see their faces. it is not just the politicians that can do something here. it's the people and the people have to stand up and won't be silenced. >> let's talk about the march you guys are planning on march 24th. what can people plan to see from it? >> i want a major rehaul of everybody in our house of representatives to be the outcome of this. so many of this, because it's a republicanly controll republican led house, senate and governor's office, i'm not saying democrats are not influenced by the nra, but it screams volumes how people don't want to listen to us. they want to listen to the

donors. the special interest groups are taking our voices. they have american democracy in a chokehold. >> how are you, ryan? >> 18. >> you're old enough to vote. >> i can vote. >> will this become the voting issue for you? the issue is for people who are vote on this. >> it definitely is a big issue that will be on the table at this midterm election. it's not the only issue. i can't decide how i feel about a politician because of this only issue, if somebody supports gun control but supports something else that is not good for the people, i have to look further into them. i don't want to see more graves. i don't want to bury another friend. we have to stand up. we have to keep going. i just want to meet face-to-face with anybody that i can.

if they say no to meeting us, we're just going to march to their doorstep. >> sometimes kids are smarter than adults. you guys are proof positive of that. thank you guys so much for doing this david hogg, thank you very much. ryan, we recruited you at the last minute and put you on tv. you guys are great. you're inspiring. you're leading the country. we're following you. >> i just want people to know, don't forget about this. these politicians want that. get out there and vote during midterms. i don't care if you're democrat or republican, get out there and vote. >> thank you very much. thank you guys so much. coming up, more "am joy." this new day looks nothing like yesterday. trails are covered. paths aren't what they used to be. roads nowhere to be found.

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to keep our community safe. before you do any project big or small, pg&e will come out and mark your gas and electric lines so you don't hit them when you dig. call 811 before you dig, and make sure that you and your neighbors are safe. coming up the next hour, it's mueller time. the new charges brought against paul manafort. and after the break, how the nra's favorite politicians are jumping to its defense. that's next. most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase allergy relief is different. flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. and 6 is greater than 1. start your day with flonase

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senator rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the nra in the future? >> the answer to that question is that people buy into my agenda. i do support the second amendment and i support the right of you and everyone here to go to school safe. >> in the name of 17 people you cannot ask the nra to keep their money out of your campaign? >> i think in the name of 17 people, i will pledge to you that i will support any law that will prevent a killer like this -- >> florida senator marco rubio faced the grieving families survivors of the parkland school

shooting. his remark remarks faced boos. rubio has been forced to respond for stricter calls on the gun regulations. how he has responded? >> if someone has decided i'll commit this crime. they'll find a way to get the gun to do it. that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a law that doesn't make it harder. it just means understand it won't stop this from happening. >> joinimy group is joining me o discuss this. fer and ina fernand, my friend, what do you make of marco rubio's response to the parkland shooting? >> first and foremost, boy, did the nra and gop pick the wrong target with the parkland school students. that segment earlier was

riveting. your question about rubio is a good one. i think the reason he went to that town hall is in classic marco rubio style he thought he would do his little two-step political talk, use what he thinks is a nice speaking pattern, kind of allay folks on the issue. but really what happened is he was exposed. i think his stark inauthenticity was revealed against the backdrop of a stark authenticity, passion and rage of parents, teachers and students that were at that cnn town hall forum. while a lot of folks want to give him credit for showing up, i think he had to show up. he represents florida. it is a mistake, because it branded him as you heard david hogg said earlier, as just another politician who is unwilling to bring about change. he talked a little bit of a talk there. we'll see if he follows it up with action on votes that will move this issue forward. i don't suspect he will, joy.

i think that's why it was a mistake for him last night. his brand took a big, big hit at that town hall. >> i'm wondering how this is playing among politics in florida who sort of watched the way marco rubio played this. i want to play for you marco rubio back in june of 2016 after the pulse nightclub massacre in orlando. he went on the hugh hewitt radio show, and this is what he said. >> does this horror change any way you resolve not to seek re-election, senator? >> you know, i haven't even given it thought in that perspective over than to say i've been deeply impacted by it. i think when it visits your homestate, when it impacts a community you know well, it gives you pause to think about your service to your country and where you can be more useful to your country. >> give us the benefit of your

political reporting, adam smith. did marco rubio utilize what happened at pulse to ferment a change of heart in running for re-electi re-election? >> absolutely. he had promised, and promised repeatedly that that was it if he ran for president he would not run for re-election. that was his stated reason more or less for running for a second term. >> so marco rubio now is not taking even a single step, sarah, away from the nra. let's look at his history. over the course of his career, the donations from the nra top 3$3.3 million. his voting record on the gun issue, he voted against the 2013 assault weapons ban. he voted against a 2016 amendment that would prevent those on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms. he has an "a" plus rating from the nra.

as a conservative republican yourself, do you expect those positions will become untenable in the wake of the activism of these park lland students. >> there's a lot to unpack here that $3 million from the nra, that's over a decade and a big chunk of that is pac money spent on ads that he legally can't interfere with or interact with at all. the example i've been giving is i'm pro life, that's not because texas right to life exists or anything that they say or do, that could shut down tomorrow and that wouldn't change things. as far as his specific positions, he's not following the nra script. he's been very roekvocal on his twitter account since the parkland shootings happened. he is an advocate for restraining orders. this is the respected for rights and due process we're looking

for. david french has an excellent article that went up last week. this is one proposedal that will be debated in the florida legislature in the last few weeks of session. and this gives concerned family members and people that are close to someone who may be mentally unstable a leg process to have their guns temporarily taken away from them without actually having to prove the level of mental incapacity necessary to get somebody put away and locked up. so, this is a good step. there are states that have enacted various forms of these. some offer more protections than others. this is something rubio supported. and i'm glad to see this part of the discussion. >> howard dean, i'm looking at a memo from miriam hammer, and gun violence restraining orders is not on the list of things they're coming out and opposing.

i would challenge that rubio is not doing their talking points. but that he don't want waiting periods to buy long guns, to buy ar-15s, they don't want to raise the age limit to 21, they don't want any age limits for purchasing semiautomatic rifles. they don't want to ban assault weapons or bump stocks. mar marco rubio, is he really stepping away from them if he says restraining orders? >> i think the republicans have a huge problem here. part of it includes the staying power of the people you interviewed previously. the problem is not whether you want this ban or a little of this, a little of that. the problem is who does the nra fund and are you a member of the nra? there's an awful lot of republicans who staked themselves out so far, i don't think they can get back to where americans are. the polling shows americans want reasonable forms of gun control. much more than the republicans will ever be comfortable with. i think they'll have to take a beating in the election to come

around. now you have not just the so-called millennial or first global generation, now you have the little brothers and sisters who are the next generation. they intensely dislike the republican party. 69% of young people under 30 voted for ralph northum, a good guy, but i would call him boring centrist. i think rick scott loses to nelson because no matter what he says, he will be the gun governor, nelson will be the moderate reasonable democratic senator. >> let me go to my pollster. fernan fernando, is there enough voting power among those who want rational gun laws in a state like florida to overcome the nra's single issue voters? >> governor dean is exactly right. all of the polling both in florida and across the country

suggests a majority of americans of all political stripes, republicans, democrats and independents want these common sense guchb reform laws. the challenge is that right now in florida the nra is doing their playbook. governor marianne hammer is saying we'll concede on a couple little points. she will tell her gimp, rick scott, we'll let you have wiggle room on raising the age from 18 to 21. our friend says if n a world that's constantly changing, you need to change slightly. you the american voter have in your hands and in your ballots the ability to stop these bullets from flying in schools across the country. the way to do that is not let them off the hook. the hard right wing has been very effective in this regard. we saw it in virginia, for example, on immigration they

took out eric cantor on the basis of this issue. this needs to become almost a single-issue vote in florida if as governor dean says, rick scott loses to bill nelson that will have a chilling effect in florida and i believe across the country. >> adam, rick scott has been coy about whether he will attend the nra convention in dallas. and the nra is becoming toxic. the govr nor ernor that been in to attend the event. what does it tell you that rick scott won't definitively say he's attending the dallas convention? >> i think the climate among republicans has been upended. it was a no-brainer he would have attended. we have a competitive governor's race where the front-runner used to say i'm a proud nra sellout. he no longer says that. another candidate, richard co

corkland is basing his campaign on sanctuary city, protecting immigrants. i think all these republicans in the legislature are very uncertain about where the climate is, what the landscape is like. that's why we're seeing rick scott and some legislative leaders support very modest baby steps so far in terms of restricting access to guns. >> very quickly, sarah, you must know that the party is losing the next generation and the generation after that. these young kids have no interest of being part of this gun culture. does that worry you as a republican? >> the students that have gone through this, my sympathy and condolences are women thith the. i applaud them for standing up, being on national television so soon after something like this. i don't know i could have the strength to do that. but what worries me is all of it

t the discussion from the left is how do we respikt gtrict guns m. we're hearing repeated government failures, four broward county deputies who stood outside the school and waited while nothing was being done. the coral springs cops, the town across the highway, they're minutes away, they're heart broken because they arrived on the scene and the broward cops were not moving at all. i -- i want to know more about what was going on with the failures to follow up on the many complaints about this kid. >> the pro cop party is turned on the police. last word, howard dean. democrats have been fearful of running on this issue affirmatively. just about everybody i know doesn't want their kids to go to school in an armed camp, doesn't want the lunch lady and teachers wielding guns and are passionate about this issue, because it's

whether you live in a civilized society or a society surrounded by more weapons. will the dechl democrats get to and run on this in november? >> the party is changing dramatically. 45% of millennials are people of color. in kindergarten last year is the first year in our country where there were more kids of color than white kids. our party is dramatically changing. whether we like it or not. they will not put up craziness from the nra. they are not going to do it. >> that's the point. the young are not down with the rights program. tick tock tick tock tick tock. thank you guys very much. coming up, more on how children could be the best hope for america. and how jared kushner could spell trouble for trump.

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the wrong thing to do. >> that was the communications director for the american conservative union. th here to respond is michael steele, former xhar of tchair o. we talked about this last night. give us the update. you addressed the fact that that same person we just saw said at a dinner, the reagan dinner for cpac. we elected michael steele because he was a black guy. that was the wrong thing to do. >> sometimes when you speak, the words that come out do not reflect what was intend the. many of us were critics of what he did but he was a good man and he did his best. did his words not come out as intended? >> his words came out exactly as he felt them. i think he and steve pack and

the party need to be honest about that. there is no shame in that, unless you have something to be a shamed of. that's the truth of this party right now. we have allowed this element to have voice. we have given countenance to it. we have given it the space to express itself. there is no taking that back. you can't deny that has now been freed up. you are the communications director of one of the largest conservative organizations on the planet. you are standing at a dinner with 500, 600 people in the room and you say what he said and you think -- you have to stop and think, i wonder how people are going to respond if i say this. no, you don't worry about that, because you think everyone in that room is going to be in agreement with you. you don't worry about saying it, because you think everyone outside that room who carries

the conservative labor or considers themselves republicans will agree with you. as the hashtag goes, joy, i call bs on that. >> let's talk about the real deal when you got elected as the chairman of the rnc. i think nine people ran. barack obama had just been elected the first african-american president of the united states. there was a sense among republicans to be honest that maybe they needed their own black guy to respond to the nation's black guy. did you feel at the time that that is why you were made chair? >> i did not feel that that was why i was made chair but i understood that for some people that was an expression that they wanted to make. keep in mind, that if that was the game plan of the republican party of the blue hairs as ian said to me last night in our conversation, then i would have won on the first ballot if this was baked in. if they were all about, let's elect a black guy. i win on the first ballot.

everybody goes coupkumbayya. let's move on. i had to prove to them six times over that i was worthy of the position, that i was prepared to go and lead the party. once i started to lead the party, they had problems and i don't have a problem if you have a problem how i led the party. look at the results. i did what i was asked to do, raise money and win elections. >> and won the biggest election for a democrat, the armageddon in 2010. on the bat lllot was another bl guy, ken blackwell. you were then very successful in 2010 and rewarded for that by being cashiered out of your job. did you feel when you were made chair that you were given the full respect that that title deserved? >> no. i was not given full respect that that title deserved, because, remember what happened

shortly after i got elected. everybody started raising the question, well, hoist leadwho i leader of the republican party? i got into that little bit of a tiff with rush limbaugh over that. i, for the first time as national chairman, the rules are starting to change. i never went public and talked that when i became chairman, members decided we need to limit how much money you have authority to spend. they started putting these limitations on the job and i pushed back on that. yeah, did i tick people off? you are dam straight i did. did i run things the way they didn't like? of course. >> let me ask you this. you were replaced by reince priebus. do you think that the republican party has a racism problem? >> yes, they do. i think we need to be honest and acknowledge it. i think the fact that people sit

here now and say, well, this has nothing to do with race. yeah, it does, when you stand on a podium and blatantly speak to race the way ian did. that's fine. i am not saying you are racist. i am saying you are having a problem with talking about and making expressions around race that oftentimes come off not just insensitive but downright racist. the party is not that way. if it were, i wouldn't stay in it. i know many african-american republicans wouldn't as well. what we want is clarity on the subject. we want a clear voice. we want the party leadership to stand up in the face of behavior and words and actions that indicate to the american people that we support the kind of ugly racist comments that we have heard in the past by many that are not true starting with things like s-hole and going from there. there is a whole lot we have to

be honest about. don't be afraid of it. walk into it and tell us how you are going to lead on it. >> michael steele, tell it like it is. i appreciate you calling in. >> you got it, babe. take care.

my message for the people in office is, you are either with us or against it. you are losing lives while

others are playing around. >> president trump, you haven't taken a single bill for mental health care or gun control and passed it. that's pathetic dmchlt swr we are old enough to understand why someone might want to discredit us. we will not be silenced. >> we are going to be the kids you read about in textbooks, not bus because we are going to be another statistic but we are going to be the last mass shooting. welcome back to "a.m. joy." after surviving the mass shooting that claimed the lives of 17 classmates, the students of marjory stoneman douglas emerged as the forefront of the national debate over gun control, taking the lead with their impassioned and compelling demands for reform. in a message that's become a rallying cry for the growing movement, never again.

with their courageous activist, they joined the long history of young people calling for change by speak truth to power. they would call trecall the ima when more than 1,000 children in birmingham, alabama, organized by martin luther king jr. walked out of their classrooms to protest segregation, only to be met with arrests, fire hoses and dogs on the order of birmingham's notorious police commissioner eugene "bull" connor. the crusade that led to his removal and the passage of the 1964 civil rights act was a pivotal victory for king. it was followed a year later by the freedom summer during which northern college students joined young activists, many of them not yet old enough to vote but who faced down the terror of jim

crow, massachusetts. they were inspiration for others that followed in their fool steps from student protesters to the more recent youth led moments like the dreamers crusade and the young activist declared black lives matter in protest against police protest when a new generation steps forward. joining us now, leah wright and philip agnew and kione mcgee and karim john pierre. i want to come to you first, leah. they have been called too young and they can't vote. they shouldn't be leading the movement because they are just kids. clearly, the history says differently. >> ella baker said it best in 1960 when she tells a group of

young people. >> she was 30. >> the old one of the crew. she is telling teenagers and college students that this is bigger than hamburger. there will be sit-ins, that students and young people have power to institute change. we see that. they are always doing the work whether it is save the children or the sit-ins or the march on washington. we forget that diane and john lewis are very, very young when they are participating. kathleen cleaver is very, very young when she is participating in the student nonviolent committee or sncc. when we think about frustrating moments and somebody like claudette kaulvin is only about 14 when she refuses to get up

from her seat and is arrested before rosa parks. there is a legacy and tradition of young people taking action and instituting major and significant changes. >> i tell my students at new house, these kids were their age. they are kids and college students. philip agnew, i got to know you when you were a kid to me now. i met you when you were basically a kid. you guys, you and the dream defenders, were sitting in, for almost 30 days in the governor's office in florida. rick scott, who is getting all kinds of kudos now for wanting to do little-bitty incremental changes on gun control. you protested stand your ground. i want to read from necessary trouble. a woman named sarah jaffe wrote that was the night that governor

scott arrived. he showed the protesters his boots, which were adorned with the confederate flag, alongside the u.s. flag, and told them there was nothing he could do. he suggested they organize a prayer vigil. >> tell us about that encounter. >> it was illuminating. for us, we had demanded a meeting from the time we got there. we had an analysis of the problem. we thought that we had the national pressure and potentially the political will to be able to move the governor. what we saw right then is how deeply entrenched the moneyed interest in this state is in guiding the decisions of our elected officials. we saw when he showed us those boots, saw very, very clearly what he represented and what was important to him. we are looking forward to working with the parkland students, because they are going to learn a crucial less son in e state of florida, nothing moves

until it is forced. you have corporations that are pushing these politicians. that meeting was jarring. that was at the beginning of our sit-in. we didn't leave. we stayed another 28 days after that. we learned a crucial lesson that we have a lot of work to do. >> nothing in florida moves, you said, unless it is forced. sometimes not even then. you would know that better than most, state representative. i saw you speaking in tallahassee. you were one of the passionate speakers there with the young people. tell us about what it does take to move florida on something like guns and do you think it is more possible now than it was withstand your ground? >> good morning, joy. thank you for having me. the short answer is, yes. what it is going to take is the political will and political courage. the world watched as i proposed the motion on the house floor to bring about the debate, the discussion, the vote to ban this ar-15. i was saddened to learn that i

watched my friends and colleagues that are elected officials when 71 of them voted, no, not to hear the cries of these kids. i was utterly shocked. once we realized that the vote had gone down at 71 votes nay, not to hear that discussion, the real question began to circulate around was, what's next? as i spoke to those kids out on the florida house capital, i wanted to remind them that 55 years ago, people did the exact same thing that they were doing that particular day at the house capitol. that's what motivated me to be as passionate as i was. it makes no sense that in a state of florida where the republican party has control of the house, the senate, the governor's mansion for over 20 years, that we have yet to have

that discussion with what our kids are asking us to do. the incremental changes that our governor is proposing are still falling short. they are falling short. the real answer is, how do we keep these guns out of people's hands that do not deserve them. in the state of florida, it is easier to buy an ar-15 than it is to buy cough medicine. we have to change this. kids who can't buy a lottery ticket can buy just short of a military style assault weapon. p let's turn to another young lady who is an organizer. we talked about the children's march in birmingham in 1963. people forget that the march in 1963 was about the slow pace of the 1963 civil rights that didn't pass until 1964 after the assassination of a president.

how do you connect organized movements like your own to these young people and to sort of impart on them the patients to know how slow sometimes change can be? >> during the civil rights movement, young people were the conscience of the civil rights movement. what we are seeing now today is the same thing with young people being the conscience of what's going on with this gun reform debate. so one of the most encouraging stats that i have read this week was that 8.6 million teenagers in 2016 who were not able to vote in 2016 are going to be eligible to vote in 2018. that number jumps up to 16.6 million in 2020. i think that's the key. we really have to continue to encourage these young people to take that step. now, you are 18. you are eligible to vote. you have to vote. you have to take that step. so it's up to us.

it is up to organizations like myself, move on and also the democratic party to encourage and to excite them and to say, hey, and educate them. continue to educate them and say this is why we need to do this if you want to make real change, to bring progressive leaders in. not just democrats but progressive leaders. >> look at the projected population by generation. look at the chart at the top. millennials are much larger in number. the boomers going way down. the silent generation. even my generation, genx. there are 47 million in the silent generation. boomers were a boom, 76 million. my generation, genx was $55 million. the millennials were 66 million

and post-millennials, 69 million of them. they are more than the baby boomers. the question is, can they be moved to do what the civil rights movement era kids understood? voting is the power we are fighting for, not just integration. >> absolutely. you have this really giant group of young people who are increasingly becoming active with politics in one way or another. largely at the local level and a lot of times in movement politics. they are very clear. poured surveys are very clear about their feelings of violence including gun control. one of the important things too to point out is that many of these people have been integrated and have been working with organizations like the dream defenders, and these organizations organizati organizations that have had

anti-violence and anti-trauma measures towards black bodies. this is something that young people have been concerned about for a very long time. those movements are coalescing and that absolutely means that something may happen in terms of policy and voting and in terms of making change. >> philip, jump in. you are part of one of those groups. >> i don't want to draw attention to one thing. i think if you ask a doctor, one of the worst things you can do is misdiagnose a disease. we have learned over this time, black people have always been the canary in the coal mine, on the front end of laying out an indictment. one thing our groups have recognized is that gun control and violence and mental health are all symptoms. those aren't the disease. the disease that we are talking about is a culture of violence and exploitation, chauvenism.

we have to talk about solutions like gun control around mass shootings and we also have to address the 17 kids that are killed at liberty city. the solutions to those, i hate to discern, there is no silver bullet with the solutions. we have to broaden this discussion to not just talk about the symptoms but the deep economic traumas that people are going through in an economic system that undergirds every part of our society and allows and creates the conditions for mental health and the things we see not only in mass shootings but with inner city youth across the country. these are the things we have learned as we are engaging in in discussion about solutions that it has to be far more than what we are talking about. the analysis of the problem that has come from people in the movement that gets us to this point. we can't wait to build with the parkland students. that's an opportunity we have to

build a movement that doesn't just result in more police. we have seen that more police doesn't just result in that. >> thank you all very much. for more on my thoughts, check out my newest piece on the daily beast. the beginning of the end of the nra's reign of terror. paul manafort has a choice, dying in prison or turning on trump. that's next.

this week, the charges kept on coming as robert mueller continues to put the squeeze to paul manafort. he and his aide, rick gates, included 32 new charges for tax and bank fraud. his week got worse when he got hit with another set of new charges and the news that gates pleaded guilty to conspiracy and lying to investigators. he has agreed to a deal under which he will answer all of mueller's outstanding questions about manafort and the trump campaign. joining me now is malcolm nance and journalist, sarah kinsey. who should be the most concerned that gates is now cooperating

with robert mueller? >> well, of course, i think donald trump should ultimately be concerned because even though what's going on looks like they are going after manafort and gates for their activity ies in the ukraine, the money that they have generated. all of this leads back to their relationship with russia, vladmir putin and quite possibly with foreign intelligence agencies. they received this money for providing services of influence in another country. these two gentlemen ran the trump campaign and they did it for free. the question that should be brought to mind is, why did they come to the trump campaign? what did they think they could do with their russian contact was donald trump? >> that is the key. manafort comes in in june of 2016, brings in gates, his long-time partner. they work for free. manafort does not take a salary even though he has financial problems, substantial financial

problems. that's weird. he is now charged with a few things, conspiracy one, against the united states, to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal. the charges were unsealed on thursday of 16 counts falsifying their tax returns, failure to file reports,ba bank fraud, ban fraud, bank fraud. can you make a connection for those that think this doesn't have anything to do with the campaign? if they were needing money and going to these officials and taking money and laundering it. >> manafort entered in march, 2016. it goes back further than what you said. >> thanks for the correction. >> of course, this is connected. we've seen this throughout, the way this is basically eamon aa

laundering operation. the reason he is being indicted on so many charges is because he has been involved in backing up oligarchs for about three decades. you are going to end up with a lot of charges. when he wh when he entered the trump campaign, it was for his own ga gain. he has long connection to the kremlin and oligarchs. i think mueller's strategy has been to follow the money and where they follow it brings these questions of why would he work for free? what's in it for him? what's in it for trump to pick manafort? there are long standing tries between manafort and the kremlin. >> malcolm, i want to take you back when we first started

hanging out and have been hanging out every week since. july of 2016, the convention, when only one change was made to the republican platform at the behest of the trump campaign. that was to the platform on ukraine, making the platform less friendly to the idea of arming the ukraine opposition to russia. do you think that is the connection here in terms of gates being able to influence polity th policy that would ultimately line their pockets and move the trump campaign closer to russia? >> i think changing the platform was manafort's showing that he could actually influence the republican party. for him to come on to the campaign way back in march, he had to have influence in the republican party, in the trump camp knowing that he had these connections with moscow, through the ukrainian government. everyone knew that for years.

many people in the republican party at that time were shifting to this very moscow friendly moscow centered sort of relationship on the basis of donald trump's only interest in making nice with vladmir putin. with trump, that goes back years. for him to come on to the campaign, the first thing he would have wanted to do for someone that was watching his behaviors is to prove to them that he actually had the juice to make a substantial change that moscow could appreciate. that, of course, was changing the platform, not to the ukrainian government. >> one of the theories of the case here was that the trump campaign -- most of the people didn't think he could possibly win. they just saw it as a moveable feast and an opportunity for greedy people to make money. to tell moscow, yeah, we can get the kremlin closer to the white house if trump wins. we can get the e-mail and

literally trying to enrich themselves. the other theory is that they thought trump could win and they would then move the american administration in moscow's direction. which of those two theories seems more plausible? >> it is much more plausible that they thought trump would win and they had a plan to get him to win. trump ran or nearly ran for office four times. one of those times was in 2012. this is something that has been in the works for him. he said in the past he would not run again unless he had a guarantee that he would win. that's very much in his nature. it is hard for him to think about this. yeah, i'm cool with losing to a woman. i'm cool with losing to a clinton. that's not how trump operates. when you look at these other characters that had gotten in all sorts of trouble with russia, like manafort, or were having trouble navigating policies, like the russian sanctions which affect american businessmen, like rex tillerson, who has involvement in russian

trade deals. there is a lot of opportunity to have a mutually beneficial financial relationship with russia and there is idealogical ties with russia and the extremist of the united states. there is a lot to gain. we lose our national sovereignty and dignity and democracy. that doesn't seem to be a major consideration of people involved. >> manafort, one of his previous clients was from the democratic republican of congo. next up, we go to jared. more "a.m. joy" after the break. the things we do rising before dawn. sweating it out. tough to do it all. but we can always find time to listen to great thinkers and explorers

whose stories take us places our hamstrings can't. all we have to do is listen. download audible to start listening.

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coming up, jared kushner may have the fullback of his father in law but he still doesn't have a full security clearance. details about why when we come back.

your chief of staff has recommended to grant security to members of your administration. would you be willing to grant a waiver to jared kushner? >> he is a high-quality person. he works for nothing. he gets zero. he doesn't get a salary. that will be up to general kelly. general kelly respects jared a lot. general kelly will make that call. i won't make that call. i will let the general, who is right here, make that call.

>> jared kushner's status is still in limbo this morning even though friday was the deadline. white house, chief of staff, john kelly, set for white house staffers, without full security clearance to lose their right to view top secret information. donald trump's senior adviser is some of 130 white house officials with only interim clearances. rod rosenstein warned the white house that kushner's security clearance would be further delayed because of, quote, significant information requiring additional investigation. malcolm nance is back and navida jamali. the idea there was additional information that had arisen that was delaying the security process for jared kushner, what does that say to you? >> the fact that jared kushner does not have a final ajudication i have be

ajudication giving him a clearance is the final -- the investigation to adjudicate and determine if that person is eligible to hold the clearance starts from the day they were born to present day. there is someone who already has a clearance and perhaps has left government office and then came back. the investigation will then focus in the interim, the time that lapses between him having a clearance and him coming back. jared kushner, to get a clearance, the fbi would have to say that everything he has done, meeting with kislyak, trying to set up back channels, the veb and trump tower meetings and the fact that he owes $1.5 billion on fifth avenue, to give him a clearance, the fbi would say, no big deal. they would have to say it is not a risk. i do not see how the fbi is going to do that. it would preclude and impact bob

mueller's investigation. if squun is goiomeone is going k and charge her, it would be an absolute 180 on that. i don't see how he can get a clearance because it probably means bob mueller is investigating him. he has to be put in a position that doesn't draw clearance. he doesn't draw a salary. guess who else doesn't draw a salary, paul manafort? it is not a ringing endorsement. >> to that very point, ted lieu of california issued a statement in which he said, the questions we have been asking are pretty simple. meaning democrats. did he have any discussion with foreign nationals about 666 fifth avenue? if so, did he discuss anything related to helping finance, purchase, or assist with the debt? malcolm x, in addition to the fact that he did ask for secure

communications on russian facilities about we don't know what, is there any circumstance under which you can imagine him every being qualified by the fbi for a security clearance? >> no. i think he is completely and totally unclearable. that's a phrase i never heard in my career. people like that were fired immediately. they weren't invited in if they were unclearable. that was people with felonies and investigations going on that would not get them a clearance. i agree with you, joy. that one point alone, the investigation into whether jared kushner actually asked the russians to use secure cryp cryptographic systems to hide communications from nsa and cia, tells us that he should not be anywhere near the presidential briefing or any top secret material in the white house at all. we don't know where his loyalty lies. that's just fact. he should not be cleared.

after a year, what they should do is remove him from his duties where he has to have access to classified information or the president of the united states should come out and publicly state, i am going to allow him a top secret, sci clearance, on the basis that i'm president of the united states and stop playing around and putting it on general kelly. >> thank you for reminding people once again that it is the white house, the president that grants these clearances, not the fbi. the fbi makes a recommendation about whether they believe this person merits a clearance. it is trump. trump could grant him a clearance tomorrow. it is trump that is not giving him the clearance. i think we need to keep emphasizing that. it is not the fbi. when rod rosenstein was the deputy attorney general, went to the white house to explain to them that there is some information that was preventing the fbi from giving this green check mark to jared kushner, it is not clear he could have even

explained why to don mcgahn. the white house counsel doesn't have a final security clearance. sara huckabee sanders is on an interim. ivanka trump is on an interim. he doesn't have a clearance. what kind of an insane show are we running here? that's a rhetorical question. >> this is absolutely unprecedented. we have never had this many people in the white house who lack a security clearance. kushner has the worst record of anybody to enter this kind of position and gain this kind of access to classified information. the number of things he left off his forms in terms of foreign investments and meetings with foreign officials is enormous. there is nothing that compares to it. this is very serious. i think they have been using the interim clearance as a way to

get kushner classified information while circumventing the rigorous process that would normally have kept him out or gotten him fired. say they do clamp down on this. then what happens? kushner has been there for a year, getting classified information. we know he has ties to russia, israel, saudi arabia. we don't know what he is doing in his position. we know that he has these back channels and these connections and that he has information that's incredibly valuable, that could be sold on the market. we know there is a market for state secrets. these problems with these staffers with interim clearance will affect our national security, whether they are in the white house or out of it. >> kushner is whining about his situation, according to the "new york times." he is frustrated and concerned that mr. kelly has targeted him personally with the directive and has told colleagues that he is reluctant to give up his

high-level access. there is some reason he wants to hold on to this access. as somebody who has dealt with the russians before and been a double agent, what is the risk of him having this high-level access without being cleared through the fbi. >> when i was dealing with the russians, they knew i was applying to be an intelligence officer in the navy. i saw my position as a way to personally enrich myself. i see a one to one ratio with paul manafort and jared curb mer. >> what did you tell them? >> i told them when i was working for the russians, they knew i was going to become an intelligence officer for the united states navy. i was very clear. it was very clear and understood that i was doing that in large part, that i would have access to information that i could sell and be able to enrich myself. that was part of the profile that i built to present to them. i see a one to one parallel between what i presented and

someone like manafort and curb kushner that see their positions to personally enrich themselves not through service but through their access. that is what the chinese not just russians are looking for people like that. >> for the readers out there who didn't get that. what these foreign intelligence services want are people who see their office as a chance to get access to information for the purposes of enriching themselves. think and do a thought exercise how many people that could theoretically apply to in the trump campaign and the white house. it is scary. thank you, guys, very much. meanwhile, some breaking news on #boycottnra. >> the airlines, delta and united have now dropped their partnerships with the nra and will no longer give discounts to nra members. wow, up next, trump's favorite boogeyman. looks nothing like y. trails are covered.

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communities where they are killing people, not necessarily with guns, because necessary not painful enough. this is what they think. >> okay, not to be self-centered but i think that donald trump may have been talking about me. i do thank him for noticing my weight loss with that lightweights comment. i said that ms-13 was a largely unknown gang that had become fodder for donald trump and his friends at fox news to whip up hysteria against latino immigrants among their base. he has mentioned ms-13 at least three times since then including at his response to parkland, florida. we sent trumaine lee out to take a look at the favorite boogeyman. the full picture isn't quite what he makes it out to be. few communities have suffered worse at the hand of these ms-13 thugs than the people of long island. >> this community of immigrants

on long island looks like an unlikely place to receive donald trump's attention. >> one by one, we're liberating our american towns to go into jails and then back to their country. they are animals. >> reporter: donald trump has used the gang's violence to push his hard line immigration agenda. despite the fiery read door rick, local law officials say we are talking hundreds. they are brutal but maintained. >> reporter: members of the salvadorian community are afraid of seeking help. they say police and immigration officials have been too quick to detain immigrant youth on suspicion of gang alask ac acti

>> a kid has a salvadoran shirt or might have written it on a shirt, he is a gang member? no. he is a kid kid missing his hom country. >> one of my clients who is classified as affiliated or a gang member of ms-13, the best they could come up with is he was seen in the presence of known ms-13 members and that he also had "503" written in his notebook, which is the area code of el salvador. the judge in the case actually said, "503" is an area code and is very minimal evidence to have someone detained. >> if you're an ms-13 gang member, take a look behind me. for every person here, there's ten more. >> any time you increase enforcement in a certain way, you're going to have a portion

of the public that's not going to support it. >> reporter: but activists aren't just critical of how the war against ms-13 is waged. they believe the battle is a way to persecute central american immigrants. >> we have donald trump. we have jeff sessions. and we've had many other elected officials come here, putting so much emphasis on law enforcement, without any conversation, substantive conversation and action on the resources that this community needs like immigration reform, like civil protections for immigrants when they're at the hands of law enforcement. >> reporter: is it frustrating, given it's a community of hard working people, but ms-13 has become shorthand for every historic immigrant? >> yes. it's deeply disappointing. this community is a community of strivers. >> msnbc reporter jermaine lee joins me now, great work on this package and the one that aired last night.

we have statistics here from "ne "newsday" comparing ms-13, which donald trump has characterized as the biggest security threat in the u.s., there have been 400 deaths from opioids in the year 2017 and six deaths from ms-13. in 2011, 250,000 unaccompanied minors were apprehended, 56 were suspected of affiliation with ms-13. this is a problem, it is a gang that is threatening people. but give us a sense of the real scope of the problem. >> so ms-13 actually is a very violent gang. unlike other gangs they don't necessarily traffic in guns or drugs. they are a violent organization that poses a threat to the same people that donald trump is attacking, immigrants in inse l

insular, small communities. while they do pose a threat, it's largely been exaggerated. people in the community say donald trump has weaponized the politics around this for his own needs. >> and people in theel is hav e the salvadorian community feel comfortable speaking to police if there is ms-13 activity? >> in chicago, you live next door to drug dealers and gaining membe -- gang members. people are afraid of ms-13 but they're also afraid of i.c.e. because of the ramped up aggression in terms of routing folks in the community, they're scared to go to police. >> let's talk about operation matador. the associated press wrote about this crackdown on ms-13. ap wrote, they won't divulge their ages, immigration statuses

or current whereabouts. they refuse to say what happened to those who weren't deported including whether they're even still in custody. they say releasing more details could jeopardize ongoing investigations. were you able to find out about this operation? >> that was a source of frustration for me as a reporter, but also for folks who advocate for this community. there's a dubious checklist of who is a member of a gang, are they documented, undocumented, how many of them are teens. in a community where 60% of the folks are hispanic, many of them immigrants, they say their children have been rounded up, again, on dubious association at best. people say, i sit next to someone who is a member of ms-13, does that make me an associate? some are routed to deportation, some are hunkering down, afraid, in their community. >> donald trump tweeted this week about ms-13.

ms-13 gang members are being removed by our great i.c.e. and border patrol agents by the thousands but these killers come back from el salvador and mexico like water. we need the wall. i wonder if you were able to determine whether the trump administration and i.c.e. are using this boogieman of ms-13 as an excuse to generally round up and deport latinos, immigrants. >> that's the sense you get in the community. you have this community of immigrants who are mostly, by all accounts, hard working folks, they're striving for a better life, that's how they got here in the first place. ms-13 members were grown in america, and formed by u.s. policy. many of them find their way back. it's a problem we helped create. there's this legitimate issue of crime and violence, but then it's exacerbated by local, state, and foreign policy. >> one of the people you interviewed in the piece that

aired last night said donald trump has made ms-13 more famous. >> and they love it. again, they don't traffic in guns and drugs. they traffic in fear. by the fearmongering we see from the white house down, it has only made them the baddest in america, and that's what they wanted. >> jermaine lee, thank you very much, looking forward to working with you. there's a going to be a lot more tremaine leon "a.m. joy" because we now have use of your services at msnbc. more "a.m. joy" after the break. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet.

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"a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow. up next, my girl alex witt. >> can i ask what you've got for tomorrow? >> my west indian brother who is in "black panther," i'm so excited. >> we'll be tuning in for that one. thank you, joy. happening right now, a guilty plea and an agreement to cooperate. and shortly after that, a new indictment. big developments in the past 24 hours in the russia investigation. this hour, where these charges signal the investigation is headed. jared kushner's clearance. the substantial issues getting way in the president's son-in-law receiving a permanent security clearance. army teachers to prevent tragedies. a trump