you can find us on facebook. and you can see there, we're going to post the legal report i did on what the second amendment does and does not say. you can find that there, or at the beat with ari melber.com. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. praise the lord and pass the ammunition. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. if commander in chief donald trump has his way, that old world war ii slogan will become the motto for america's teachers, pass the ammunition. not only, that president trump let us know today that if he were at marjory douglas stoneman himself early this morn month when a gunman opened fire on students and faculty, he, donald trump would have rushed heroically in to save lives in contrast to the sheriff's

deputies who remained safely outside the building. let's watch him do it. >> i got to watch some deputy sheriffs performing this weekend. they weren't exactly medal of honor winners. all right. the way they performed was, frankly, disgusting. you know, i really believe you don't know until you test it. but i really believe i would run in even if i didn't have a weapon. and i think most of the people in this room would have done that too. >> even if i didn't have a weapon. more on that coming up. meanwhile, it was another weekend of frenzy for the president as he repeatedly tweeted about russia. he also called in to the friendly confines of jeanine pirro's saturday night fox news show to bash the democrats, the russia investigation, and of course barack obama. it came after days of action by robert mueller and his team that indicate the probe is speeding along nicely. the latest brick in the wall, a guilty plea by former trump deputy campaign chairman rick gates, who is cooperating now nicely with the mueller

investigation. today nbc's hallie jackson asked sarah huckabee sanders about the growing list of indicted officials who worked on the president's campaign. let's watch. >> given the guilty plea from rick gates on friday, i'm wondering what it says in your view about the president's judgment that three people linked to his campaign have now turned out to be criminals. >> look, i think that those are issues that took place long before they were involve had with the president. and anything beyond, that because those are active investigation, i'm not going to go any further than that. >> about his campaign? >> yeah, but the actions are under review and under investigation took place prior to him being part of the president's campaign. >> also this weekend, can the release of a memo by democrats on the house intelligence committee against accusations by republicans on the committee that they abused their power to go after a trump associate. trump quickly tweeted his reaction. quote, the democrat memo

response on government surveillance abuses is a total political and legal bust. so illegal. oshort time later, the president seemed to suggest his attorney general jeff sessions should investigate some of his political opponents. let's watch that. >> certainly the memo was a nothing. a lot of bad things happened on the other side, not on this side, but on the other side. >> and you know what is interesting -- >> should look into it. because what they did is really fraudulent. and somebody should be looking into that. and by somebody, i'm talking about you know who. >> well, president trump again denied any collusion. >> you have all these committees. everybody is looking. there is no collusion. no phone calls. i had no phone calls. no meetings, no nothing. i don't want to sound braggadocious. i was a far better candidate. she was not a good candidate. she went to the wrong states.

frankly, that's what it was all about. it was nothing to do with russians. >> of course, he also shifted blame to his predecessor, barack obama. >> i have to say obama was the president during all of this meddling, or whatever you want to call it with russians and others possibly. but obama was the president. he is the one that was supposed to take care of this. and he didn't. nobody brings that up. he was warned, and he didn't. which makes it even worse. >> for more i'm joined by miriam rocca, a former federal prosecutor and natasha bertrand, staff writer for the atlantic. let me go to miriam on that question. what do you make of the defense -- well, i guess he is a defendant in the court of public opinion. but all he does is defend himself against charges no one really made. what is this frenzy about? do you think it's because of something to do with the prosecutor, the special counsel looking so robust in terms of the indictments he has made in the last couple of days? >> well, it's hard to be in the

mind of donald trump. so i'm not going to quite attempt that. but i certainly think that mueller's indictment was so of the russians and then following closely by the guilty plea by gates and showing that he is cooperating. and you can see that he has been so thorough and detailed. and that's got to be frightening to donald trump. because that's what mueller deals. in mueller and his team deal in facts and evidence. and things that they can prove in court if need be. i'm not saying it's ever going to get to court. but that's how prosecutors and fbi agents, investigators, that's how they work. it's not about politics. it's about facts and evidence. and they're clearly hard at work gathering that in a very meticulous detailed way. and i do think it's interesting the clip that you played. one of the pieces that donald trump said on the judge jeanine pirro show where he said there was no collusion, no phone

calls, no meetings. look we don't know right now, mueller is investigating what it is that trump and his inner circle did do, if anything that would cute a crime, but i do know that if that's going to be the argument that there was no crime committed because he didn't have any meetings or any phone calls, that's not going to hold water. because the conspiracy law which is really the law we're talking about here, not collusion, but conspiracy, conspiracy law is much broader than that. it doesn't require meetings, phone calls, concrete, explicit agreements. it can be much more subtle than that. >> and what would it be in fact in the case of a president in seeking office, seeking the white house, and knowing the russians are getting worried the russians are trying to help you. what steps would he have to take to incriminate himself? >> well, it would depend on what the underlying conspiracy is. but let's -- i'm hypothesizing

here. but let's generalize and say that it's the russians interfering in the election, either by the social media campaign or by other ways that we have not yet seen, the hacking of e-mails or even other things that we may not even know about yet. someone within the campaign, if they were aware of those efforts and had knowledge of them and took some step to further those efforts, the goal of that conspiracy by others, then they could liable for that conspiracy themselves. >> with president would he be responsible for the actions of his campaign in regard to a conspiracy charge? >> it's not a strict liability. it's not just liable because they're members of his campaign. he would have to have some personal knowledge himself. >> okay. >> and either approve of it in some way. but it can be much more subtle. it doesn't require a sort of explicit hey, let's do this kind

of agreement. it can be much more nuanced than that. >> how about checking with his in-law and his son-in-law and son and say what you get from the russians on the dirt front? or when you put out announcement, i want the russians to help me get more e-mails on hillary, or these sort of public calls to help, and also checking in with people like flynn after he met with kislyak and asking him how did that go. did you ask him about sanctions? would that all qualify as collusion, as conspiratorial in this case? >> again, i want to be careful about the word collusion. it could be enough if you add all that together or not. i'm not sitting right now saying i think he is guilty of that crime. i don't know all of the facts. but those are certainly all the kinds of facts and factors that someone would look at. in fact, there is case law out there that talks about checking in on the status of other co-conspirat co-conspirators, that being enough to make someone part of a conspiracy or put them in a conspiracy. but we really would need to know all the information.

and the point is, that's what mueller and his team are doing. so when people in trump's orbit or his defenders say no collusion has been found yet, again, bad word, collusion. nothing has been found yet because he is not done with the investigation. he is building the blocks right now. and mueller has established there is a conspiracy. and that's only one part of it that he has already indicted. >> one part. are we talking rico here? >> rico could be a possibility. rico is sort of you could look at it as sort of an advanced form of conspiracy. >> right. >> it's even broader than conspiracy in some ways. but there is a loft different elements that you would need to show. you have to have an enterprise. >> sure, criminal enterprise. >> but it's a possibility. it's definitely a possibility. >> i've been thinking about it. on fox news today, former chief of staff to pub reince priebus was asked about rick gates' duties during the campaign when

priebus was chair of the rnc. let's watch priebus. >> more logistics, event planning, things that were going on behind the scenes. is what i saw rick did. i wasn't sure as how far into the policy or campaigning himself he was involved with. i don't think he was actually. >> okay, we've seen that before. it's not the first time donald trump or his aides and allies have downplayed the contributions of anyone who has become a liability regarding the russia investigation. let's watch more. >> even general flynn was a volunteer of the campaign. and then obviously there has been discussion of paul manafort, who played a very limited role for very limited amount of time. >> i know mr. manafort. i haven't spoken to him in a long time. but i know him. he was with the campaign for a short period of time. >> in the case of mr. paige, mr. gordon, some others that they really have very attenuated contacts to the campaign that i managed for last three months. >> i never heard of

papadopoulos. he never showed up at trump tower, never had any interaction with any of the campaign leaders around me. the guy was -- he was the coffee boy. >> do you remember george papadopoulos during that march meeting? >> i don't remember much about that meeting. it was a very unimportant meeting. it took place a long time. don't remember much about it. >> let me go to another, natasha bertrand. i don't know nothing here, as sergeant schulz used to say on hogan's heroes. any time somebody gets indicted, coffee boy. didn't some kind of work around the office. don't really know him. >> reince priebus actually said it himself. he cedric gates was working behind the scenes. rick gates was flying on trump's plane, on trump's campaign plane until election day. he stayed on working with the transition team as a liaison between the transition team and the rnc. even after, well after paul manafort was ousted, he stayed on. and he of course was still

talking to paul manafort throughout that entire period. he was paul manafort's protege. he was his right-hand man. and i would also say the fact that george papadopoulos is being characterized as a coffee boy, you would want the coffee boy to be the one doing the intermediary work if you wanted someone low level in the campaign who isn't noticed to be colluding with russia. so the fact that they're trying to downplay papadopoulos's role, which we've seen he actually had a very prominent role in the campaign. >> sure. >> he was setting up meetings, and he was representing the rnc at certain events. he went to england and he represented the campaign when he was talking to foreign leaders there so the fact that they're representing papadopoulos as a coffee boy or they're saying that rick gates didn't have a very prominent role in the campaign is ignoring the fact that they were there. they were in the midst of all of this. they were at the center of it. and they heard everything going on. and this campaign was notoriously not tight-lipped. this was an operation that was not very tight. so the fact that they were in

the midst of it, even rick gates being behind the scenes, that kind of says it all. >> i think they're called cut-outs there is a term for what you described there. they're called cut-outs you. use people that you can pass off as not really one of yourself. joaquin castro joins us, a member of the house intel committee. we're talking about spy games and also conspiracy and maybe a rico charge. i'm talking about the president. when you watch this as a member of the intelligence committee and you have so much information, what do you see mr. mueller working on in terms of prosecution here? do you see a picture of it? >> yeah, certainly. the house and senate committees can't charge anybody with a crime. if anybody is going to be charged with a crime as folks have, it's going to be left to robert mueller and his investigation. but i think that there are three fundamental things that he is probably looking at. obstruction of justice, collusion and any kind of moneylaundering. and based on everything i've seen, there are plenty of leads for him to track down.

>> which is the richest field for you, for the prosecutor and yourself? >> i still think that the obstruction of justice charges probably have the greatest merit. we don't have enough information, at least on our committee about the money laundering because, well, for a few reasons. the first thing is that the committee has not done a good job of following up on leads, verifying statements that were made to us by witnesses of looking at people's bank records and so forth that would give us any kind of indication about that kind of malfeasance. >> i agree with you, congressman. do you guys on the minority side of any power over that committee? any call? >> it's been very tough. devin nunes, of course, is still inserted himself in the investigation, even though he had supposedly recused himself. so it's been tough to get subpoenas out and to get all the information we'd like to see. >> you know, the president was pinning medals on his chest yesterday. what did you make of that, saying how great he was, what an american hero he was?

what do you make of the way the president has thanked him for his services? >> when he was talking about the shooting? >> he is talking about how great nunes has been as a public servant, as a patriot. >> sure. sure. i thought you were talking about something else. with respect to devin nunes, devon unfortunately has been an obstruction in this investigation. he has caused a lot of division within the committee. i don't know why he has done it. he basically has made sacrificed his own political career in service to donald trump. it's been a very strange episode. >> it sure has. and it's embarrassing for everybody. thank you, as congressman joaquin castro of texas. mirrian rocah and natasha bertrand. the president once again made the case today that we should arm teachers with guns, but only those with a natural talent for handling guns. natural talent, whatever that is. one democratic governor told the govern president to his face that teachers shouldn't be packing and the president needs to do less tweeting and more listening.

plus, whatever happened to the conservative movement in this country? it seems as if it's gotten more and more outlandish under trump it is. really conservative? now a c pac spokesman says michael is still our colleague here healthcheck was chosen to lead the rnc way back when, because, this is our phrase, he is a black guy. great stuff in the right way. and president trump has punted the ball on jared kushner's security clearance leaving the issue up to john kelly. if kushner is supposed to solve the mid east crisis? how can he do it without the intel on the various players? finally, "hardball," where the action is. get an extra day by the pool get to spend more time together get more moments to remember there are some things you can only get when you book with us. get more from your spring break getaway with exclusive hilton offers. book yours, only at hilton.com

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leon. while neither reached the threshold required to win the nomination, deleon garnered 54% compared to feinstein's 37%. the two will face off in a primary which should give feinstein an edge. in yet another sign the party is tilting left ward, the democratic committee campaign is refusing to endorse dan lapinski. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ hey ron! they're finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again?

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welcome back to "hardball." yesterday the last of the stoneman douglas high school shooting victims was laid to rest. today president trump hosted a bipartisan round table discussion with a number of state governors on what to do about gun violence. and once again, trump flirted with the notion of banning bump stocks but did not offer a plan forward. he also repeated his pitch to arm teachers, a position consistently advocated by the nra. >> i don't want teachers to have guns. i want highly trained people

that have a natural talent, like hitting a baseball, or hitting a golf ball or putting. how come some people always make the four-footer? and some people under pressure can't even take their club back, right? some people can't take their club back. and you don't know what it is. i say the only way you stop it is retribution. i don't think you're going to stop it by being kind. >> well, washington governor jay inslee confronted the president on that proposal. >> we need to listen that educators should educate and they should not be foisted upon this responsibility of packing heat in first grade classes. so i just suggest we need a little less tweeting here and a little more listening. >> meanwhile, usa today poll taken over the weekend shows that americans overwhelmingly want action on guns. 63% support banning semiautomatic weapons like the ar-15. according to another poll released by cnn, 70% of the

public support tougher gun laws. and that's the highest its been since 1993. despite this groundswell of public support generally, it's unlikely the republican-controlled congress will take sweeping new legislation of any kind. the president set to meet with bipartisan members of congress this week. but if the daca debate has shown us anything, despite massive public support, congress and the president are loathe to take a position at odds with their base, especially ahead of the 2018 midterm elections. for more i'm joined by democratic governor from connecticut dan malloy and with the pbs news hour and msnbc news contributor. governor, what do you make of the president's claim that he with or without a gun would have gone racing into the school at the time of the shooting, hearing the semiautomatic gunfire and the mass shooting of children. he would have gone in there and stopped it, in some way, armed or not. what do you make of that claim? >> this from a guy who went to a military high school and then dodged going to vietnam on multiple occasions.

sometimes you just have to be embarrassed for the poor guy. today at the white house with other governors, he is talking about shooting children in the same context about natural talent like baseball or putting or other things. i mean, this is -- this is -- they're highly unusual behavior for anyone who is taking this issue seriously. >> yeah. >> and then of course it came out over the weekend the president had his buddies from the nra to lunch. this is a bait and switch. >> well, there is a lot of going on of that with him how. do you think of a guy who compares facing down an ar-15 in the face with a four-foot putt? >> no, i mean, it's bizarre. actually, as i'm sitting here talking to you, i am embarrassed for president of the united states that he doesn't -- he is not capable of separating putting and death.

i know golf is important, but these are two things we shouldn't be doing together. i had an opportunity to look up some of his prior statements about seeing an 80-year-old man fall and hit his head. and as the man was bleeding, the only thing he could worry about was the tile or the marble floor at his resort in florida being stained. we really are now in the theater of the bizarre when it comes to this president talking about these kinds of issues. >> he has shown something -- go, ahead, yamiche. he seemed to have developed this skill. first of all, he knows -- he'll say anything he wants in the moment. i'm for daca kids. i love, i cherish these kids. two weeks later he does what he wants to do. same with the gun control. i'll say anything right now. oh, we got to do something on bump stock, age limits, blah, blah, blah, magazines. knowing in two or three weeks he'll do whatever he feels like doing. he has mastered the time schedule and the limited time, what do you call it, the amount

of time -- our attention span. >> attention span. >> yeah. >> and he masters it. your thoughts, yamiche? i think the governor is getting at that too. >> i think what we saw the president do today was really be a salesman. he is selling this idea that putting more guns into schools is somehow going to make people safe. and he is selling this idea that he himself can be brave. remember, he said that he alone could save this country. and now he is saying i'm so brave, i'm the type of person that would go into a school when i know that i would probably be shot with an ar-15 without a handgun, and i would save these children. what he is really trying to say is one, to the nra, look, we really want to do this. i'm going to put my full throat behind this. i'm going to sthsell this idea teachers who are so overwhelmed with other things in school and can't get money for school supplies are somehow getting federal funds to learn how to shoot. but you also have a president i think is really feeling pressure though tr from these students to do something in the moment.

i think that it's fair and it's smart to say that he is someone who has really i think monopolized and really used to his benefit the attention span. because he is someone who has really been able to i would say dominate the conversation based on what he wants to talk that week. >> you know, governor, i don't know about you, but i went to parochial school. i have to tell you, i wonder what the thing and the convents tonight, the nuns thinking about this. where are we going to wear our guns? i'm sorry, the christian brothers. this idea the teachers are naturally vocation called them in the direction of guns. this idea that that's how they're going to spend their lives. your thoughts. >> this is bait and switch. he is just running out the clock. if he was worried about bump stocks, how come he wasn't worried about the shooting in nevada where it was actually use and bullets were raining down on concertgoers? how come it wasn't an issue then but he makes it an issue in this shooting when that's really not

in play? and by the way, let's point out that a lot of mass murderers want to die. they're going to go with the expectation that they're going to die. we've seen that time and time again. so, you know, having a battle in a school with somebody with guns is not something that they're afraid of. in fact, it's ultimately part of their plan. why don't we do something to make people safer? why don't we have the universal background checks? 40% of guns in america change hands without a background check. why won't the nra agree that we need universal background checks? then here is another thing. let's go putting the no fly list on the no buy list. how about that, mr. president? wouldn't that make us all better? >> where are you going be in 2020? are you up for this one? >> no, no. listen -- >> trump is running for reelection. you sound like you're ready to go against him. are you going to do it? >> no, no. you know what i'm going to do is i'm going to devote a good part of the rest of my life to trying to make people safer.

and the number one thing we can do in america is to make sure that every gun purchase or sale is recorded. then we could improve the nic system to make sure that no one ever again gets a gun that they use to murder people in a church because the nic system didn't say yes or no within three days. and they are purposely underfunding nic. >> so we know what the character of the gun is, the signature of gun is. last word -- >> i think i want to say this, though. that democrats are also -- democrats are also using this issue. and they're talking about this issue now because it's top of mind. democrats did not -- this is not something that democrats were talking about. the same thing with daca. they were also talking about this. while the president is using this issue and is really using the failings of the broward clinton sheriff's office to his advantage pointing out the fact that the fbi should have done more in this case you have to be fair. everybody is seeing this political football and saying

how can i use this to further my party. >> with all due respect, democrats have advocated for universal background checks forever. we have seven states -- >> but they haven't always done anything. >> i'm sorry? >> again, i'm not saying -- go ahead. >> go, yamiche. >> democrats have talked about gun safety. they are the party that has talked about gun safety more than the republicans for sure. the republicans of course are the ones that are taking more money from the nra. that's settled. the issue, though, is that democrats, the ones that are in congress, they didn't make this a number one issue when they were in power in congress. they could have done more when they were in power. and you talk to gun advocates, people who are victims of gun shootings, and they say that. they say they blame washington more so than republicans. but they do blame the democrats as well. >> democrats have other priorities. they have other good ones too, like health care, things like that. thank you, governor malloy. please come back. yamiche, you make a good point. progressives and moderates have

other interests besides guns. gun toters have only one interest. i'm joined by sam zieff, a student at stoneman douglas itself. what do you make of this debate? do you think anybody is doing anything about gun safety right now after the horror of your school? >> i think we are making the necessary steps, and they are steps in the right direction. they're not enough. but the age raise, the bump stocks, it is progress. and we're definitely going to push for more. >> what about the teachers and guns? where do you stand on that? >> i don't understand after a school shooting why the answer would be to bring more guns into school. it doesn't -- that idea does not sit well with me or anyone else. i've spoken to many teachers, many faculty. they are not behind it. and i completely agree with them. why should they have the responsibility to know whether or not they're going to have to kill a kid that day, to know

whether they're going to take the first step? there is a lot of -- there has been a lot of officer -- police officer attacks for them being scared and taking the first step and pulling the trigger and making mistakes. why wouldn't that happen in our schools? these people are trained their whole life to protect us. and that happens to them. these teachers are trained to teach. i don't understand. >> how do you keep the pressure on? i said something, and i think i'm right about it. the second amendment people who really care about their firearms think about it all the time. that's their number one issue. that's what they care about. they'll vote on that issue. single voters. how do you get progressives and other people concerned about firearms and misuse of them to focus on guns as their primary mission? how do you keep up that interest level? >> well, that's another thing that doesn't sit well with me. i fully respect the second amendment. this is not about all guns. it's about assault weapons, ars. there is a very big difference

between an assault weapon and a handgun, a pistol. a missal is for self-defense. a pistol is maybe something you walk around at night to feel safe. an ar is not. an ar is something you purchase to kill. and look where we are now. >> thank you, sam zeif. it's great to you on again. >> thank you. >> a cpac spokesperson says michael steele only got his position as chairman of the republican national committee because, quote, he was black. what is happening with the conservative movement when they say stuff like that? anyway, this is "hardball," where the action is. [cars honking] [car accelerating] you can switch and save worry. ♪ you can switch and save hassle. [vacuuming sound] and when you switch to esurance, you can save time, worry, hassle and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. so you might want to think about pulling the ol' switcheroo. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump was anything but the traditional conservative republican candidate in 2016, of course. but as this year's cpac conference shows, it's trump's party now. cpac communications director ian walters said on friday that the rnc only elected former party chair michael steele because he was black. >> and a little bit of cynicism, what do we do? this is a terrible thing. we elected mike steele to be the rnc chair because he was black guy, and that was the wrong thing to do. >> here is how cpac chairman matt schlapp said. >> what the hell does my race have to do with that at the end of the day? what does the color of my skin have to do with what he said? >> don't take the worst of what

said. this is you you have to have some grace. >> wait a minute. what do i have to be graceful for? >> you have not been very grace to feel the republicans and can crafts in this hall and that room for a very long period of time. >> i'm joined by george f. will who is an msnbc news contributor. george, is it reflective of the modern conservative movement such as it is? >> well, there are two modern conservative movements. one is more modern than the other. the other being conservative tends to look to the past, to the founders and all the rest. looking on the bright side, as i'm disinclined to do usually, i think there are moments when worse is better, and that is one at cpac. it was very clarifying when they invited from europe ms. le pen, a fellow traveling neo-nazi with a fascist past to come and speak to them on the stage were the leaders of the trump administration, including himself, were content to share

the space with her. clarifying in this sense there is a continental, really central european kind of right wingerry thrown, altar, blood, soil, tribe, all the rest that is antithetical to the idea of the first republican president that we are a nation dedicated to a proposition, that you become an american by embracing the ideas, regardless of any other background. it's easy to say how you become an american. not so easy to say how you become a frenchman or a german. >> or a japanese. almost impossible. you can become an american. as you just mentioned, nationalists like marine le pen took center stage at cpac this year. let's watch her. >> don't believe in the existence of the nation state. they don't believe -- they don't believe in national identity. they want us to live in a world where open borders. >> i want america first for the

american people. i want britain first for the british people. and i want france first for the french people. >> they're not giving us their best people, folks. i don't want people coming into this country with a lottery. i want people coming into this country based on merit. >> so there really isn't much difference it seems in listening to those speakers between germ nan nationalism and u.s. nationalism. it's blood and soil. >> that's correct. >> there is no values attached to it. us against them. >> a conservativetive can be a nationalist in that he says i not only love my country, patriotism, i believe there are superior aspects of the united states. i'm a nationalist in that sense. it's not the same thing as saying i'm nationalist because i'm born here. i'm of a particular tribe, and i believe that the tribe is superior. >> well, where is this going? and is there trumpism in our future? will this be down to more trumps in the nomination process, more

people like him selling basically pretty gross nationalism? >> i don't know. perotism if there is such a thing did not survive. george wallacism did not survive his departure. i suspect that this man with his peculiar persona and a hold it has on a certain minority of the american population departs, it will depart too. i have a feeling that people are going to say well, that was interesting, but also exhausting and faintly embarrassing. and i think you're going see some anti-trump personas come along, people calm and quiet and restful. >> when not in the room of the republican leaders and people who are what we consider regular bush republicans or reagan republicans, is he in the room? do they consider him part of them? or are they glad he is not in the room that moment? >> they don't consider him one of them, but they know that he has a large hold on a large portion of their base. >> yeah.

>> and since most of them have only to fear if you're in the house, the only thing they fear is a primary dominated by the intense part of their base. >> so is the republican party a trump occupied territory right now? >> absolutely. >> thank you. i was going say a captive nation. would that be too strong? thank you, george f. will. up next, president trump says he'll let chief of staff john kelly call the shots on jared kushner's security clearance. but if kushner doesn't have access to top secret information, how can he do his job? after all, he is supposed to be bringing about peace in the middle east without any intel about the players? how does that work? all the arab countries, he doesn't know what they're thinking. but he is going to bring them together. anyway, you're watching "hardball." it can be sculpted, bringing to life beautiful detail. or painted in luxurious strokes. and in rare cases... both.

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that will be up to general kelly. general kelly respects jared a lot. and general kelly will make that call. i won't make that call. >> we're back to "hardball," or romperoom in the case of the white house that is president trump punting on the decision of the security clearance of jared kushner. his decision to stay on the sidelines have left kelly and kushner at an impact. kelly does not plan to recommend to the president that he grant kushner a waiver. but he sun likely to resign if trump ultimately decides to do so, according to a person familiar with this thing. let's bring in the "hardball" round table to figure thing this thing out. jonathan capehart for the washington process, heidi przybilla and jonathan, starting with you. this is an embarrassment the president is making. he brought his family members in to the white house, like the romanov family. he's got ivanka there being his representative in pyeongchang. he's got jared bringing the

american embassy to jerusalem. he's got all this family, these romanovs wandering around. and finally it's come up against reality. they can't pass must were the fbi. they can't get cleared. that's an embarrassment in his family. now it's an embarrassment for the white house and the country. how is he going to fix this? >> you meant jonathan capehart, not jonathan swan. >> we have two jonathans here on the set. >> look, i have ceased looking at the trump administration as a normal presidency. >> how abnormal screwed up family? >> it's definitely that. but it's also -- it's operating almost like a crime family. none of the norms, none of the customs that have regulated and ruled the oval office apply to those folks because one, they don't know what they are. and two, they don't care. so in that paragraph that you just read, kelly is not likely to do anything about this, even

if the president -- >> does he give him the papers or not? >> i would not be surprised if the president did if jared were stripped of his security clearance, the president wouldn't just say here, take it. >> here is my answer. >> yes. because it takes a void, careless person to think nothing of doing something like that with the nation's biggest secrets. >> when they brought jared in, they start playeding the game of family politics in the white house was not going to work because eventually somebody like kelly trying to do his job comes up against the romanovs and it doesn't work thinking is a clear example of the dangers of nepotism. and why nepotism almost never ends well. because now he is in an impossible situation. the president is tied to whatever happens here. and i think that they'll have to find some kind of work-around here to your point. at the same time, they can't continue to give him his regular clearance because kelly said in this memo last week, last friday that he is yanking it for

everyone else. so based on what do they issue jared a waiver? his extensive resume of experience in the middle east? no. jared was brought in as the secretary of everything. that's what they called him, right? it was based on one thing alone, that he had familial connection. that he was married to his daughter. >> did he actually propose its moving to jerusalem? did he make a big decision like that, this guy with no background? >> i wasn't in on the room for that decision. and apparently they're still coming out with their grand middle east strategy. >> jonathan, does this guy have the power the president has given to him or is it just phone to make him look good as the son-in-law? >> his responsibilities have changed dramatically. >> downward? >> yes. from january 17 to this year. originally he was involved in almost everything. he was almost a parallel chief of staff. he was involved in whatever he wanted to be. in that statement that kelly put out last week, he -- people described him as circumscribing

jared's responsibilities. he accurately described jared areas current responsibilities. he works on the middle east attempted peace negotiations. >> why? does what does he know about the middle east? >> tom friedman had a line. he said jared's primary qualification the s that he went to jewish summer camp. however, however, however, i will say all the great geniuses of middle east diplomacy for the last 20 years haven't done much either. >> keep the doors open at the white house. >> i'm not saying anything like that. i'm just saying everyone talks about george mitchell like the great genius. >> be a little less discreet. here is the question. if he is going to give this guy a walk around and sneak him papers, he is going to pardon him. that's what is coming. this family is untouchable. he is not going to let his daughter swing. he is not going to let his son-in-law swing or his son-in-law. if it comes that, all that mueller has to do is nail one of the family members and we're going to see which way this is

going. when he starts patterneding his family members, this thing is going to have a whole new look to it. right. it all boils down family. everything that the president does revolves around family. well, first, revolves around him. and then it revolves around -- >> which is him. >> but it also revolves around family. you're absolutely right. if anything happens to jared or ivanka. >> i've got go back to my other jonathan. will he pardon him? pardon the family members? >> trump? >> yes. >> it's so hard to know. here's the question. >> you know that what? >> family is important to him. but you know what is more important? media coverage of himself. i think if he thought he was going to get bad coverage, i don't know that he would. >> he is not going to let his family swing. the family is close enough to be him. the round table is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball."

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we're back with our round table. jonathan, tell me something i don't know. >> tomorrow at "the washington post" at 10:00 a.m., i'm interviewing former attorney general eric holder in a live event for my podcast. >> and that's breaking news? >> that is brirngsz make some news. >> a couple of letters that came out last week that raised questions about mission creep in syria. this administration does not think it needs to go back to congress for widening the conflict in terms of battling the syrian government and maybe as a bulwark against iran. >> it was on "homeland" last

night, that exact same development. >> trump has been telling confidantes that he admires singapore's death penalty for drug dealers, and he would like to see a death penalty for drug dealers here in america. he understands he might have some trouble getting that through congress. but he has spoken admiringly of duterte and president xi in china. >> okay. we've heard enough of this guy. what can i say? what can i say? jonathan capehart, thank you. jonathan swan, thank you, and heidi przybilla. we'll be right back. ♪ it's a lot easier to make decisions

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trump watch monday, february 26th, 2018. you can call the trump two-step. it guess like this. say anything you want now, do anything you want later. when the heat is on, say good things about the dreamers. say you're going to take care of these people who are brought to this country at a young age. not to worry, president trump is on your side. now wait a few weeks for the heat to be off. then when people have forgotten all those commitments you made about how you were going to look out for dreamers, drop all that when horror struck parkland, florida, donald trump began that tame two-step. when the heat is on and everyone wanted something being done about guns brought into schools to kill students, he talked about how he too wanted something done. he talked about gun control measures such as banning bump stocks which make a semiautomatic rifle into an automatic. and even raising the age requirement for buying ar-15s, assault rifles. let's see how he takes the

second step to find a way of avoiding all these commitments and leaving everything the way it is until the next school shooting. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> this crew is indicted four people already for lying to them. >> as the president's lawyers try to keep trump away from a mueller interview -- >> for a person that doesn't use an economy of words like the president, it could be a disaster. >> tonight congressman adam schiff on more guilty pleas. the release of his memo and the collapse of trump's plot to stop mueller. then -- >> we need a little less tweeting here, a little more listening. >> the governor who confronted the president about arming teachers joins me live. >> you don't know until you test it. but i think -- i really believe i would run in there, even if i didn't have a weapon. plus, understanding today's supreme court move on daca. and ivanka trump's defense of the president.