rosenstein had flagged significant information affecting the clearance process and number two, that donald trump is not intervening meaning that jared's role in a serious way has been constrained. we'll have a lot more on the story i suspect throughout coverage tonight. i'll see you back on "the beat" at 6:00 tomorrow. "hardball" starts right now. gates of hell. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we have wanted for months to see the star quitnesses to appear against donald trump. witnesses whose testimony could lead to his impeachment perhaps. today special counsel robert mueller dropped several charges against former deputy campaign chairman rick gates in what was part of a deal for him to become a star witness. he is committed answer all of

mueller's questions, everything. axios reports today mueller's decision to drop the more expansive charges against gates suggests that he may have provided good information for mueller's probe. unanswered question now is whether that information will be used to further pressure paul manafort or whether gates has the goods on the president himself. meanwhile, nbc news is reporting among the many states that were targeted by russian hackers some were actually compromised. "the u.s. intelligence community developed substantial evidence that state web sites and seven states with compromised by russian-backed covert operatives prior to the 2016 election but never told the states involved," according to multiple u.s. officials. as of january of last year, those seven states included alaska, arizona, california, florida, illinois, texas, and wisconsin. while state and federal officials say no votes were actually changed "they're

concerned that 2016 was laying the groundwork for a possible future attack," in other words the russians were casing the joint. the director of national security admiral mike rogers testified today neither president trump nor the secretary of defense has directed him to take any retaliatory measure toward russia. that led to this very tense exchange between rogers and senator claire mccaskill of missouri at a u.s. cyber command hearing with the senate armed services committee. i'm going to try to channel a woman who came up to me at the grocery store not along ago. she asked me, are we strong enough and smart enough that we can keep them from doing this again? >> yes. >> okay. so then the next question she asked me, i said the same thing. the next question she asked me, are we doing that right now. >> we're taking steps but we're

probably not doing enough. >> okay. so she wants to know and i want to know why the hell not? what's it going to take. >> i'm an operational commander. you're asking me a question so much bigger. >> i'm joined by mike quigley, julia ansley for nbc news and kim whaley, a former federal prosecutor. let's start. there's so much that happened today. the fact that the rick gates is now available to the prosecution. he's been with this campaign as deputy campaign chair all the way through all that stuff, all the meetings with the ambassador with russia. he sat in on everything manafort sat in on. how much can mueller squeeze out of this guy? >> mueller is a master. he did the same thing winning general flynn. he didn't indict his son. he had the maximum exposure on flynn instead plid him on one count. he's doing the same thing with gateses when you do that, you're going up. >> do you think he can go to the president, gates?

>> i think this is a periphery moving toward the middle. >> what's between him and the president? what's stopping gates from testifying he's heard the president say? >> i wouldn't know the specifics and mr. manafort would certainly now. >> i want the reporting first. we'll get the jurisdiction later. jurupa next. go ahead. >> obviously, you've got to set up a proffer. mueller knew what gates could offer before he made the decision to dismiss a lot of charges. whatever gates was offering he also probably used his campaign on the campaign. he stayed on longer than manafort, his boss, did. he worked on the inauguration. he had conversations during the transition. it's clear mueller thinks there's enough to get from gates that he's willing to drop what we saw was a sweeping and serious slew of charges. >> i see a john dean on the horizon from watergate days. i think just start with the guy.

as a prosecutor in this case, special counsel mueller, able to just say okay, thank you for cooperating. we're going to make life good for you if you're good for us. tell me every single thing you did this day, day after day after day, everything you heard from manafort it, every conversation, every document you've got in your hand, everything i need. you know i need to get the president. >> i think he's already asked all of that and already knows probably what the witness knows. if you read the plea agreement, this is -- he's large and in charge. mueller has all the cards here. if he doesn't cooperate with turning over documents with saying what he says he's going to do, the gauntlet comes down. he's holding all of that at bay here. the charges were dismissed without prejudice. they can be brought back. and gates has to be very, very careful to tow the line. but the carrot at the other end is huge. it's not just dropping a lot of charges. it could be a 5k letter to get

probation. you're going from years and years of prison to possibly probation. >> guys, i think back to colombo days. it you always knew the bad guy was a snooty big shot, sophisticated actor playing him. that guy knew he was guilty from the beginning of the show, we knew he was guilty. the joy was w567ing a guy like colom bowl in the raincoat asking one more question. do you think the president knows everything that happened? >> i think the president knows exactly how much vulnerability he has on the financial side. i don't think he totally understands all the money laundering issues that he probably has. and i think he doesn't understand his total legal peril right now. >> do you think he understands conspiracy laws and how they work and how he may have been supporting something and following up on things that were illegal that made him a conspirator? >> watching this for the last year, i think he is creating the opportunities to be charged with obstruction step by step by act

and by deed. and it is clear he has to show the intent, but having watched him work with our folks on the intel committee, they have teamed up at this point in time to obstruct the investigation at every step. i think those are elements. >> trump has and i think some of the republicans on intel have. >> meanwhile, when asked why the white house hasn't given admiral mike rogers authority to count ker russian aggression, sarah huckabee sanders took issue with the question. watch. >> in charge of cyber command. why not give him the authority. >> nobody is denying him. we're looking at a number of different ways we can put pressure. this president has been much tougher on russia than his predecessor. this happened under obama. it didn't happen under president trump. if you want to blame somebody on past problems, you need to look at the obama administration. >> i want everybody to respond down the line here.

here you have the president's spokesperson who is very good at her job of defending the president. but asked a very direct question. why hasn't the president given orders to try to stop the russian interference with our politics? why hasn't he given an ordered to do the job of defending the country? she goes back to the default button of going after obama more than a year ago. >> what he's done is made sus less safe and more vulnerable by calling this a hoax. and saying it could have been some big heavy guy in jersey. we are not ready. we need all new election equipment. it is 10 to 12 years old. we couldn't even put anti-hacking cyber wear on in. >> the president hasn't given any orders. this guy, mike rogers said he's never told me to do anything. this president has a cease-fire with putin. >> that's exactly right, chris. >> one--weended cease fire. >> it blows apart is the whole

argument that obama did less than trump did. it's something we see appropriated by the right this week. but if you think about all the details that were laid out how russia did their influence campaign by mueller a few weeks ago. >> seven states have been cased out to possibly be broken into this november for all we know. >> sure. so they may not be doing enough now to protect that. that seems clear from the testimony. remember that the obama administration didn't have all the details. it took robert mueller months and months to get to that level of detail and now that we have it, there's no response. it seems really limited. it seems there's a cry from the intelligence community to say give us the tools to stop this in the future. it's a serious threat. >> how do you see this prosecution going now, kim? >> it's our democracy in a way is hanging by a thread on his ability to continue to do his job. the russian interference here takes us out of the political spectrum from someone who worked in the whitewater investigation.

think if your home was invaded and spies were left all over and you slept through it, you're aware it happened. there's 100% chance they're coming back. there's still there. there's 100% chance and you're not going to call the police or say anything. that doesn't make any sense. i think the american public needs to realize what's happened. it's done. they have done it into i know your district a little bit. northwest chicago. what about the republicans you deal with? i know you're nonpartisan the way you deal with constituents. what do they say about the russians? >> we're just relitigating the election. after charlottesville, i said you're just relitigating the civil war. i try to convince them they should have been concerned. it could have been an attack on the republicans. seven states is wrong. it's more like 35 or 36. it's your voting apparatus they attacked. and as comey said, they will be back. we are not ready. >> what are they up to next time? >> they hacked too the databases

already. they can do a lot of mischief there. i think they want to hack into the voting machines. 13 states don't even have a paper record we can audit if they hack. >> should we go to paper this fall to be careful? >> we need a combination of the touch screens with paper. that can be audited. >> 69% is, seven out of ten americans believe the russians were involved in our election. they know, most people overwhelmingly believe 9 russians were screwing with us trying to hurt our democracy. >> sure. something that's been made really clear and comey said this in testimony, the russians tried to leave bred crumbs. they want to show americans they can interfere in our elections whether it's through penetrating voter databases or releasing hacked e-mails or launching social media campaigns. >> why? >> because they want us to stoke fear. the next time you go to the polls and see the results of an election, you have a little bit of doubt. of course, it doesn't matter which side it's on. >> a shaky third world

democracy. a question for the congressman. meanwhile, white house communications director hope hicks was on capitol hill to testify before your committee. while she answers questions about the transition it, hicks refused to answer anything after trump took the presidency. "the new york times" reported hicks met with mueller's investigators in december. what did you get from her? >> i think it's part of a pattern with the white house working with the intelligence committee on the republican side to obstruct the investigation. they did not actually assert privilege and if they did, the scope of it would be enormous. unprecedented. basically operating under a gag order and the republicans have agreed to let the president do this. they are teaming up with him. the memo was part of that, the nunes trip to the white house. it's all part of a pattern where they're helping the president avoid investigation. >> why? i know what partisanship is. i know what it is. this is embarrassing for nunes and the rest of them.

>> this is the ball game. this is power. >> are they trying to protect him from being impeached? >> to protect him politically and legally. and part of that a lot of that protects hem politically, as well. >> what's nunes up for, i with ccia? what's he get worth all the embarrassment? it's a terrible question to ask. what price are you, sir. thank you congress man mike quigley, julia ansley and kim whaley. >> come up is, jared kushner will no longer be allowed to access top secret intelligence. when your the president's son-in-law, do the rules apply? why is he in a top secret business if he can't know what's going on. >> plus is, trump pulling back from his idea to raise the minimum wage top buy an assault weapon to 21? we've heard plenty of talk from this guy and so far zero action. once again, nothing's getting done on guns. and trump takes to twitter

once again dismissing the russia investigation as a witch hunt. a majority, 70% of the americans -- moat of them trust special prosecutor robert mueller to get to the truth about russia and don't trust trump and seven of ten of us think the russians were involved in screwing with us in '16. let me finish tonight with trump watch. he won't like this one. has "hardball" where the action is. are defined by the things we share. and the ones we love. who never stop wondering what we'll do or where we'll go next. we the people who are better together than we are alone... are unstoppable. welcome to the entirely new expedition.

you wouldn't accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. of course, president trump yesterday made that bold claim he would have charged in to stoneman douglas high school to stop the school shooting even if he was unarmed. late night hosts had plenty to say about that claim. let's watch them. >> look, sir, sir, we already know how you react to combat situations. you got five deferments from vietnam. what are you going to do, run in there and stab them with your bone spurs. >> i got to say, i find it hard it believe trump would

voluntarily run inside a place of education. >> he's going to run in? yo, when trump ran for president, that was the first time he ran in his entire life. come on, man. you're telling me this guy is brave enough to run into an unarmed -- he's brave enough to run into a school shooting? this guy? >> whether or not president trump woman have taken on the gunman, it's increase lig clear he is unwilling to take on the gun lobby itself. that story is coming up. you're watching "hardball." 't state-of-the-art drone testing facility in central new york and the mohawk valley, which marks the start of our nation's first 50-mile unmanned flight corridor. and allows us to attract the world's top drone talent. all across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov.

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welcome back to "hardball." nbc news confirmed today that jared kushner's security clearance has been downgraded. in other words, erased. the white house security office sent a memo on friday letting kushner and all other staffers operating under interim clearances since june 1st to know they would be denied access

to highly classified staff. trump's daughter ivanka had been operating on interim clearances for access to highly classified information. before the news broke this afternoon, white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders said kushner would continue do important work. let's watch. >> she's a valued member of the team and he it will continue to do the important work he's been doing since he started in the administration. >> and chief of staff john kelly said in his statement last week he has full confidence in kushner's ability to continue performing his duties in his foreign policy portfolio including overseeing our israeli/palestinian peace effort and serving as a part of our relationship with mexico. tonight a senior administration official told nbc news trump feels kushner has been "treated very unfairly. he works for nothing and we all know jared works on major pieces of the president's portfolio both foreign and domestic."

phil rucker and susan page from "usa today." i don't often do this. i told you so. i want to show you right now something that i said back when they pushed this guy, this person into this ridiculous position of deciding our middle eastern policy, our hemispheric policy. i said it would be complicated for trump to have a family member so close inside the white house. let's watch. >> this guy has power and now he's going to having power domestically and foreign. who is going to fire him? this is something else. >> right. >> people are going to say we're going to make an exception here. the principle of the anti-nepotism law is to stop nepotism. >> i think i was pretty clear. it was a problem that was going to come. he's an untouchable without any background in anything he's been assigned to do. he knows nothing about middle

east policy, hem fearic policy. he's the boss on dealing with the future of any middle east peace deal of any kind. >> he's the guy. >> he's going to continue to have that portfolio. prime minister nettian hugh coming into washington and jared kushner is right in the middle of negotiations. >> how is he going to do the job. >> how does he know what abdullah is able to handle? how does is he know the insight on the emirates, what they need in the stuff that decides negotiations? what can the side give, and trying to work it together in some beautiful way, some choreography. this guy is going to do this without any top security information except frcht determiner and netanyahu. even in that case, he won't know what the real position is because they're playing him like everybody else will. >> you cannot do the job of trying to negotiate a middle east peace without top secret security clearance.

it's not possible. maybe the president will give him access to this even though he doesn't have the clearance. that's possible. >>. my understanding it's up to the president who can see what. so is that right, phil? >> i think that's right. >> why did he say it's up to kelly? >> it is politically untenable to say you're my chief of staff but i'm going to give my son-in-law clearance you don't think he deserves. >> i'm being brutal. if the president doesn't read, how can he brief anybody else? >> well. >> what is he willing to sit down and study so he can share with his son-in-law. >> the president can instruct the intelligence community to present certain information to him. they can present a carry the watereded down information to him for information he's available to have with the. >> why isn't he cleared? >> there's not a definitive answer for that. >> why don't they clear this guy? he's been around for more than a year.

he's the president's son-in-law. what's wrong with this guy? what is wrong. >> "the washington post" has a story out. >> has he got something wrong with him they won't clear him. >> my colleagues have a story out this afternoon on this topic which says that the foreign conversations that he's had have led officials in four different countries include two -- >> "the washington post" is reporting officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can plan manipulate jared kushner by taking advantage of his comex business arrangements,inancial difficulties and lack of foreign po experience. officials in the white house were concerned kushner was naive abbeing tricked in conversations with foreign officials some of whom said they won't and theed to deal with kushner directly and not more experienced personnel. give us your weak link. >> that's why you have to have a security clearance to do this so you have some basis of information and so that you know how to handle this kind of thing. these four countries, such an interesting post story, don't

just include adversaries like china, it includes mexico and israel trying to manipulate. >> those are the countries he's dealing with most directly. >> if he's going to treat his son-in-law with special treatment which he's doing, if he's going to make sure he's allowed to get information he's not supposed to get and remain in a privileged position, who's to say he won't pardon him when the time comes. it looks to me like the prima facieia case he's ready to pardon him when the time comes. >> i don't know what the answer to that question is. we'll find out if and when it comes. >> he looks untouchable. >> i would be surprised if the president didn't pardon him if it came to that. >> susan, he's got a tremendous sensitivity towards his daughter and son-in-law to the point they shouldn't be in there. >> the pardon power is almost unlimited. a president can do just about what he wants. very few limits on his power to pardon with no review. if he chose to, he could. >> remember the president pardoned the sheriff in maricopa

county. if he is willing to do, he would be willing to pardon his son-in-law. >> why are they there? they have to have these beings like dogs or whatever else with him? he needs them for company? is that why they're there? why are they there? they're not smart. >> he's always had not a big professional operation. he had a couple friends and people with him and family members who he trusts. >> trust for what? >> trusts them to be lyle to him. maybe trusts their judgment. he's always had a surprisingly few number of traditional experienced professional folks around him. >> to do the real work of helping him out. nba basketball players, a lot of people are old friends with him whenever they go anywhere. i understand wanting old pals around you. this is the president of the united states. it's not his world. he's making like the roman nofs

like a royal family situation. >> to her credit, the president sent ivanka to lead the closing delegategation at the olympics. a delicate situation with north korea being represented in the box. the officials i've talked to say she handled it perfectly. >> she was our vis roy. >> they're very pleased with how it went. >> she's representing the united states. >> exactly. >> and he does that kind of role when he goes to the middle east and meets with the emirates. >> yeah. >> they're senior advisers in the white house and represent this government. >> an they can't pass clearance. >> correct. >> thank you. it's a world we live in. it is the roman negatives. thank you phil and susan. you're so dry about this and accept this as if it's normal american life. it's not! is russia normal? it's the way they do it in russia. the roman negatives. is the president pulling back on his promise for the sweeping gun control thing? remember he's going to do all this stuff when the issue was hotter. he's doing a dance where he says

he's doing. promise everything and deliver nothing. the trump m.o. there is "hardball" where the action is. at ally, we offer low-cost trades and high-yield savings. but if that's not enough, we offer innovative investing tools to prepare you for the future. looks like you hooked it. and if that's not enough, we'll help your kid prepare for the future. don't hook it kid. and if that's still not enough, we'll help your kid's kid prepare for the future. looks like he hooked it. we'll do anything... takes after his grandad. seriously anything, to help you invest for the future. ally. do it right.

seriously anything, to help you invest for the future. want us to do about what woulthis president?fathers i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they had just repelled an invading foreign power. so they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack. the justice department just indicted 13 russians for sabotaging our elections. an electronic attack on america that the chief investigator called "warfare". so what did this president do? nothing. and is he doing anything to prevent a future attack? the head of the fbi says no. this president has failed his most important responsibility- protecting our country. the first question is: why? what is in his and his family's business dealings with russia that he is so determined to hide, that he'd betray our country?

and the second question is: why is he still president? join us today. we have to do something.

welcome back to "hardball." in the wake of the devastating parkland school shooting, president trump has tried to seize control of the gub debate. he's using his two-step

technique, promise everything, then deliver nothing. >> we're talking about rules and regulations for purchasing. we're talking about changing an age from 18 to 21. these other weapons that we talk about that some people don't like, they're allowed to buy them at 18. how does that make sense. >> trump wants all teachers to have guns. trump wants teachers to have guns. i don't want teachers. i want highly trained people that have a natural talent. the only way you stop it is retribution. you don't stop it by being kind. butch stocks, i'm writing ta out myself. >> despite all those commitments from the president, he's been working with the leaders of the nra. >> don't worry about the nra. they're on our side. half of you are so afraid of the nra. there's nothing to be afraid of. >> it should come as no surprise despite the support for sweeping gun legislation spearheaded by the survivors of the parkland

shooting on capitol hill right now, it doesn't look like congressional republicans will do anything to challenge the nra. >> first of all, you know, i'm not going to micromanage this. let me just say this on we shouldn't be banning guns for law abiding citizens. we should be focusing on making sure that citizens who should not get guns in the first place don't get those guns. of course, we want to listen to the kids and make sure we protect people's due process rights. >> in tallahassee, florida, state senators rejected a bill that would ban the ar-15. >> by your vote, the amendment is not adopted. we will go to the next amendment. >> shame. shame. shame. >> excuse me. >> shame, shame, shame i -- sha >> the two the issues that seem to getting the most support, arming teachers and fixing

background checks are the ones sanctioned by the national rifle association. not everybody agrees with the notion that teachers should be armed guards. yesterday the governor of washington state pushed back on that idea. i have listened to the people who would be affected by that. i have listened to the biology teachers. they don't want to do that at any percentage. i've listened to first grade teachers that don't want to be pistol packing first grade teachers. this is a circumstance where we need to listen that, educators should educate and should not be foisted upon this responsibility of packing heat in first grade classes. >> for more i'm joined by democratic governor from washington state, jay inslee. thank you. >> you bet. >> a little bit of psychobabble from you i'd like right now. do you think trump means to arm the teachers or that's his excuse next time when the horror strikes again, we have another mass shooting he'll stay i told you we need to arm our teachers knowing the unions and nobody will go along with it, he's

covered. i'm thinking politically. >> i have no idea what goes on between those ears. i can tell you if history is a guide, it will be part of a long con a bait and switch where he'll say something and never come through with leadership. i would characterize this as a ludicrous idea. it has been rejected by 5 million educators in this country, reject bid law enforcement who don't believe it's a meaningful way to deal with this problem. it's really a distractioning to try to distract. this is an nra tactic. we've seen this for years to distract with this argument that the solution to guns is just more guns everywhere every time day or night inside or outside. and i don't think it is a real solution and it's disappointing because we need real solutions. this one solution that i heard hip at one point agree that we need to raise the age to get assault weapon and now i've heard he might be backing off from that.

we should not be surprised. i heard your run-ups mention the two-step shuffle. we need real solutions in a common sense way. i hope we do. i tried to bring the voice of teachers and parents and law enforcement into the white house yesterday. >> let's talk about the first -- it's an established pattern. he did it with daca. he said i'm all for it, love these kids. cherish them. next thing you know he dropped the whole thing. the assault rifle is, a semi-automatic looks like an automatic weapon. it's scary, looks military. it is military. multiple multiple rounds in it. you can shoot up to 30 rounds apparently with these magazines. the people, the bad people whatever their mental or emotional state who shoot up schools choose this weapon, this is the weapon of choice for them. why do people in the nra world want to keep that on the market for people? >> well, i know why some politicians because they're shackled by fear of the nra.

that's the only reason because common sense folks believe there's no reason for a military weapon of war for deer hunting or self-protection. it has become the weapon of choice because it's extremely lethal with its its muzzle velocity, creates injury to people that's unprecedented relative to other weapons. i believe this for a long time. i voted to ban these in 1984 when i was in congress. >> how did that turn out for you? >> turned out well for years but for years, we had a ban on them. there was reduction of these mass shootings. it did have an appreciable impact of reducing somts of the mass shootings because this has become sort of a badge of honor for folks who want to cause mass destruction. we're seeing this over and over and over again. >> it's almost like the middle east if you sign a treaty and you're anwar sadat did, you do the right thing you get killed. you lost on the issue. tom foley lost on the issue.

ryan is always sold to me. i have never bought his argument he's so great. he went out there today and said i'm touching the weapons. he just said it. >> it's vet disappointing when you have overwhelming majorities of americans. there is no possible argument why congress should not ban bump stocks. we're doing that. il sign a bill to do that shortly. there is no reason you can't buy a pistol till you're 21 but you can go out and buy an assault weapon, then buy a bump stock and turn it into a fully automatic weapon. there's no reason that the country doesn't have what we have in our state of an extreme risk protection order that allows family members to take a firearm out of the homes with the assistance of law enforcement after a court hearing of a person who is endangering themselves or potentially endangering others. these are all common sense. the american people red blue areas, urban and rural, hunters

and people who don't own fire arms all agree. we have the republican party which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the nr and we need presidential leadership. unfortunately we're not getting it. we're getting absurd ideas that what we want is our first graders to have a glock on their hip. think how ridiculous that is and what the president talked about he wanted 20% of the 5 million educators to be carrying around weapons in the schools. that's a million teachers. we don't need a million teaches to be distracted from their educational duties. so i think it's important to listen to the people in our country who would be affected by this. i've done that. up and down the spectrum. and that's a bad idea. we should put common sense to work for us here. >> great to have you on tonight. thank you so much for taking time. jay inslee of washington state. up next, trump once again today ridiculed the russia investigation calling it nothing more than a witch hunt. the majority of americans have

faithings in the robert mueller and can't say about the president. seven in ten think there really was russian interference in our election in 2016. 70%. you're watching "hardball." thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas.

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everything both as a director of nsa and what i see in the cyber command side leads me to believe if we don't change the dynamic this is going to continue and 2016 won't be viewed as something isolated. >> that was nsa director mike rogers with a dire warning about russia's intentions to interfere in future u.s. elections despite evidence from the intelligence community and special counsel robert mule esafter of indictment of 13 russians rogers told senators he has not been directed by president trump to stop russia's meddling. has not been instructed. the president today tweeted a series of quotes arguing there is no evidence of collusion

between the trump campaign and the russians. trump summed things up by saying witch hunt. in capital letters by the way. a new "usa today" poll finds most voters disagree with the president. only 36% versus trust in trump's denials of collusion. a majority, 57% said they have little trust or none. 5bers said think have trust in robert mueller's investigation. only 2% have little or no trust in him. let's bring in the roundtable. adrian elrod, john brabender, and eugene scott, a reporter for "the washington post." let me ask you, there's two issues. one is the democrats and the special counsel and everybody else have the enough on trump to begin to impeach him. the other is, what is the question of russia's involvement clearly established in the 2016 election? whatever effect it had? did it turn it against hillary? whatever it was it was there.

the american people know it was there and most believe it's coming back at us in '18. how is that going to affect this administration's history in the books? >> i think it's going to affect very negatively president trump's history. look, it is infuriating an that our president does not seem to care about this, despite collusion or not, the fact that he doesn't seem to care. he's had two major intelligence officials testify in the last two weeks he has not directed them to do anything. it's going to have a dismal effect. >> what do you make of that mike rogers all of them saying he's never told me to do anything about the russians. >> the bigger problem. >> isn't that a problem? >> here's the bigger problem. we're throwing the russia thing and throwing into one category. did they interfere? yes. >> he won't say that. >> he woulding. > was there collusion and the president's right. so far no proof that there was collusion. number three, did it impact the election? i would tell you as an election

expert who's done this for 30 years it, did not have an impact on the election. >> didn't have an impact on who won. >> absolutely. >> who won. we know they penetrated seven states for sure into their election process. >> they tried to. we don't know that they successfully did. we don't know. >> they could have done. >> no one's going to convince me a billion dollar was spent on the campaigns and with memes they changed the outcome. >> there are three people stick think of, papadopoulos, flynn, and now rick gate who have all been basically involved in plea bargains to give stuff to trump on trump to mueller. what do you think that is? it has nothing to do with russia? >> i don't think that has anything to do with russia and the campaign, absolutely. no, i don't. first of all, tell me what russia could have done. >> that's what he's investigating. >> what russia has done to influence the election the

argument is to release e-mails where hillary clinton was trying to scam the election from bernie sanders. that's what we're using as what the russians did? >> there's a lot more than that. >> one of the things that has been said is that through the factories, fake accounts have been put out that were aimed at increasing, i'm sorry, decreasing turnout amongst particular demographics and we do have data that some demographics did not vote especially in some of those sweet states. >> what you're saying despite a billion dollars worth of advertising, despite all the network coverage and all the debates, some russians somewhere put a meme on facebook and. >> lots of trolls, lots of memes, lots of tweets, lots of fake news articles. >> it's insulting. > how much did they spend? how much did they spend on facebook? how much did they spend. >> that's what we're trying to figure out. >> so. >> memes and posts on facebook

by some russians influenced the election that's insulting to voters. >> if the republicans had lost the presidential election, would you be as unconcerned about the degree? >> here's the thing. >> you're saying this -- >> the democrats are right now like the sort of group where they need a drug to get -- how did we lose this election. >> that is the trump argument. that's the trump argument. i don't believe it. >> let me ask adrian. >> do you think the russians tilted the election. >> i'm going to is that question of someone -- >> i believe the comey argument. i accept ten days out when you announce hillary is still under investigation, that can be add to the baggage of hillary clinton. fact. do you think the russians threw the election to trump in the russians? by themselves threw the election to trump? >> they were a significant competing factor. >> did they throw the election. >> i think they had a huge influence. there are a number of factors.

>> i think comey may have thrown it. >> 13 indictments of the russians. >> i can only ask three times. >> who ended up putting trump over the top? democrats in pennsylvania, wisconsin, ohio. >> there were a number of things. >> what you're saying is basically the russians through facebook changed all the -- >> they have no evidence so far. >> we're still learning. >> i have higher opinions of the democrats than you do. >> they were targeting what they thought were purple states, virginia, colorado. the election was turning in wisconsin, pennsylvania, and michigan. they weren't working those three states. >> they were as bad as hillary. >> they didn't have it right. i'm glad they didn't shoot straight. i think comey did affect the election. anthony, anthony weiner, blame him. don't even blame comey. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next they'll tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." this is frank. sup!

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get more moments to remember there are some things you can only get when you book with us. get more from your spring break getaway with exclusive hilton offers. book yours, only at hilton.com we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. adrian, tell me something i don't know. go ahead. >> have i done it before. once before. since the parkland shooting, 20 corporations have severed ties with the nra. companies like fedex and amazon streaming have not. there's a huge effort called boycott nra for the next 24 hours starting tomorrow, people are urged to not have anything to do with those companies still associated with the nra. >> i was at one of the comoets today where they monitor engagement of voters. it's been really high for the democrats. remains high for the democrats. for the first time in the last two weeks, there's an uptick among republicans.

>> guns? >> i was hoping it was the tax cuts. i'm saying for the first time republicans are starting -- >> your tax cut is a political winner unfortunately because the democrats haven't challenged enough. >> eric holder is still declining to say whether or not he will run in 2020 for president. >> that's not how it works. you announce you're running and you take over. >> what he's done is announce he's still considering it. today with "the washington post." >> gee whiz, come on. he's quite capable of running. why is he doing it this way? >> i think he wants to see the who else is going to run. >> 20 other people. >> he wants to see which ones. the shape of the field determines the winners they say in massachusetts, he will be late if he does it that way. aid jen, john, and eugene pushing the possibility of eric holder. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball."

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secure to the core. want us to do about what woulthis president?fathers i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack the justice department just indicted 13 russians for an electronic attack on america. so what did this president do? nothing. he's failed his most important responsibility - to protect our country. the question is: why is he still president?

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trump watch tuesday, february 27th, 2018. whether he donald trump practiced what he calls, he calls chain migration bringing his various family members along with him into the white house, you could see the trouble come. it's called nepotism when you give prize jobs to people not on the basis of ability but blood. they're your relative and they

want a piece of the pie. they want to enjoy some of the action, they want to sit where the guy elected is sitting and want in. it's beyond me what the president sees in his son-in-law what got him to yield up the entire middle east, mexico for him to serve as his viceroy. trump has left his son-in-law in charge of global geography without the benefit of knowing what they can accept and what they need. in other words, the very elements of any successful negotiation. in a murky world, jared will be flying without instruments already will shy on the ways of the world, he will be also flying blind. there's something pathetic here if jared cannot pass must ter with the fbi, what is he doing in the fbi? why is he handling sensitive u.s. policy? if he weren't the president's son-in-law how far would he fall down on the list of those

qualified? 100 millionth? it wasn't just me saying this. it was history saying if the president had done a little reading he would have spotted it long before this absurdity of having a top secret aide whom nobody wants to trust with the top secrets. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i've never been given any specific direction to take additional steps outside my authority. >> nbc reports substantial evidence election systems compromised here in seven u.s. states by the russians in 2016 as the national security director reveals trump has not directed him to protect us in 2018. >> the notion that you have not been given this mission to stop this from happening this year is outrageous. >> then. >> there was no collusion. there's no ob instructions. >> there is no collusion. >> there has been nool