to fight russia meddling and a cabinet secretary spent 30 grand on a new dining room set for his office? all this as president officially rolls out his campaign manager three years before the next election. >> you missed the biggest news. >> i did? what did i miss? >> the pop culture whiz will know this. i just read this this morning. john, do you know the number one reason people are disqualified from going on to the bachelor? >> herpes. >> exactly. >> they take a test and apparently a lot of people have herpes. >> he knows everything. >> i bet they found that out the hard way. then changed the rules. >> oh, dear god. >> i'm sure of it. >> i think it's too early. >> you know the number one reason why people can't come on

this show? >> okay. you know -- >> but go back -- >> you need to go home. go home. s >> that's just gross. >> it's part of gimps. >> don't laugh. don't egg him on. >> willie was off. >> what is it? >> setting you up. >> you didn't want to know. >> you didn't mess up, did you? >> not for a second. >> better than hanging out with those network folks who have a little class. what's wrong with you is this we can't start this show over. >> so john, how are you? >> very well, thank you. >> don't talk. >> oh, my god. >> i can't believe this guy was there. >> do you watch the bachelor?

>> i used to watch the bachelor. it was a marital demand that i watch the bachelor for a while and i even joined a crew of people who live tweeted the bachelor in the early days but i have been liberated from that. >> that's a shame. >> were you one of those people that watched that thing where they throw them -- z >> survivor. >> the first season was an amazing piece of television but i feel like it could never top that, so i never watched that. >> you know you can't get that time back in your life. as you can see, we have john with us. he's the editor of commentary magazine, columnist at the new york post and contributing editor. that's way down. also, former treasury official and morning joe economic analysts. he's got two sets of charts for us this morning. we're so excited. >> we're excited.

we can reflame the show morning charts. >> joe probably wouldn't go for it. f. >> veteran columnist and contributor. former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense now an nbc news national security. and nbc news capitol hull correspondent and you can do it this time. we can do it. >> nice to have you all. >> good morning. >> so we start this morning with the news, the white house senior advisor jared kushner whose portfolio includes some of america's top diplomatic priorities no longer having authority to access the most sensitive national security information along with other officials unable to be cleared since june of last year according to multiple sources cites a white house memo. kushner has served for more than a year without a full security clearance. a rare occurrence for someone at his level.

kushner is leading the white house innovations office. he's been tasked with forging peace with israelis and palestinians and conducting diplomacy with chie fa. he's also engaged with talks with mexico and canada on nasa. and has a leading role on criminal justice reform. in a statement, a spokesman said kushner has done more than what is expected of him in this process claiming it is not uncommon for those clearance reviews to take this long and a new administration and that the current backlogs are now being addressed. the statement also contends, quote, no concerns were raised about mr. kushner's application. but the washington post reports that earlier this month deputy attorney general personally phoned the white house counsel to say new information had posed an obstacle to kushner's clearance.

meanwhile, new reporting from the washington post that officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate jared kushner by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience. those nations are alleged to be the united arab emirates, china, israel and mexico according to current and former u.s. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter. the officials said that h. rvrmt mcmaster learned that kushner had contacts with foreign officials that he did not coordinate through the national security council or officially report. and that the issue of foreign officials talking about their meetings with kushner and their perceptions of his vulnerabilities was raised in mcmaster's daily intelligence briefings. one former u.s. official says that special counsel robert mueller has asked people about the protocols kushner used when

he set up conversations with foreign leaders. a spokesman for kushner's attorney called the report inaccurate information. and said they won't respond further to unnamed sources peddling second hand hearsay. >> so let's start with you. there's so much to take in here. but i think at least politically the headline is that for the past two weeks we've been seeing this standdown between general kelly and jared kushner and we all assume that jared kushner would end up winning out and perhaps he will ultimately at the end, but this was the most surprising thing at least for me yesterday seeing that actually general kelly had prevailed against the president's son-in-law and got exactly what he said he needed. what -- should we read more into that? >> the president still has some moves that he can make, right,

at the end of the day. he's the president of the united states and the way things are set up he gets the final say if he wants to upheld classified information, invite him into the oval office, he can do that. that's his prerogative and so to the extent that this is the last battle in this war i think that's probably premature, but i do think this idea that jared kushner is conducting essentially a freelance u.s. foreign policy is something that is potentially really damaging for imh with members of congress, with other stake holders. i mean, it's really a completely unprecedented situation that you would have our national security intelligence officials getting essentially intelligence products from our agencies that says hey, this guy that's extremely close to the president that can walk into the oval office whenever he wants, reads the presidential daily briefer is somebody that our foreign leaders are actively trying to exploit, so much so that we heard about it completely separately. that is a remarkable state of

affairs. >> one of the things that's interesting in the story would be that h.r. mcmaster would be surprised that jared was having these meetings because during the transition, one of the complaints was he was meeting with the saudi s with the saudi audis, he was me with china, with russia, with israel. i mean, well before donald trump was sworn in. this guy was the acting secretary of state, and it was every single day, so i don't think -- i don't know how he could have been shocked by the fact that this was happening because that's what he inherited. >> well, i mean, the question is what happened before the inauguration and what happened after the inauguration. one of the dangers of having people with limited experience who are kind of getting themselves into senior positions in the white house is that they come in at high level positions,

not knowing the protocols that people learn over the course of a career in government. and i -- i think it's perfectly plausible that kushner who, you know, never even thought about being a white house official suddenly becomes a white house official. people call him on the telephone, he talks to them. he goes and sees them. he does whatever he thinks he's supposed to do because his father-in-law boss says go -- go and do likewise. and then somebody says what the hell are you doing? you know, there are systems. we need to know what you know. you need to tell everybody what you're saying and what's happening at these meetings. >> one of the things that surprised me early on was especially during the transition was there was -- there was this feeling and i said it on the air that the world began on january the 20th, 2017. 1967 borders, what are you talking about?

1973? but -- and it's not -- i'm not just talking about jared here. i'm talking about the press and everybody. they didn't want to hear a about the messiness and the ugliness of whether you were talking about the sunni conflict and what the history of it was. or the middle east. they didn't want to hear about it and there was a certain naive quality about it that hey, we're business people. we're coming in here, those state department people are fools. >> he would slap them on the back. >> we're going to do a deal because we've done some of the biggest deals in new york city. and that really was -- i'm not being facetious. that was the attitude and you can see them like mr. mcgoo just sort of stumbling through this diplomatic minefield. >> he's going to do peace in the middle east. he'd slap them on the back. >> a guy who owns a news paiper solving middle east peace, the idea that h they were going to treat the united states of

america like the trump organization and president trump was going to come in and bang the table and make a decision, fire somebody and get things done was always naive. >> and let's be clear too. it's not like jared walked in and said i'm going to be doing this. donald trump had nobody that knew what the hell they were doing around him. he didn't have a bob gates around him. he didn't have, you know, anybody with real experience. so he told his son-in-law, hey, you go do this and his son-in-law, again, anybody in that position would be woefully all prepared. just to say we're going to do peace in the middle east and then they would find out three months, six months later, oh, wait. it's not that easy. >> what's the practical implication of this now because you still have jared kushner who's working on these foreign policy problems that we've been talking about. how does this change what he's able to do now that he doesn't have access for example to the presidential daily brief that he's now on secret clearance? what does it mean? >> it means he can't access any

of the intelligence community's products or analysis and that effectively means he cannot do his job as the top diplomat overseeing the israeli, palestinian peace process. none of us can even remember a west wing staffer working on national security affairs who stayed in that job with a secret clearance. i mean, maybe in the west wing you could, you know, deliver the mail or mow the white house lawn or serve navy bean soup as an enlisted sailor but you cannot be involved in policy making. you can't go into the white house situation room, have conversations. you can't preparer the president for interviews with foreign leaders. part of that is reading those reports and working on very sensitive matters. i can't see a single way that jared can engage with relationships with china, with mexico, with any of these sophisticated players without access to top secret sensitive

information. i think this is fatal for hum. >> is this the moment where jared and perhaps ivanka go back to new york. a lot of people have suggested it may happen. >> what's also fascinating is that jared has mush closer relationships with people across the globe, foreign leaders than the state department because as we've said from day one, they purposely have undercut the state department. they haven't filled the state department so they kept control but you take for instance, the saudi crown prince that is effectively, you know, making decisions on where saudi arabia goes. he went over and spent an entire weekend there with mbs and that guy's not going to sit down and talk ch talk. >> jeremy is absolutely right in a normal world, in a normal white house, that jared's diplomatic career would be effectively ended in terms of

what he is cut off from unless his father in law, the president of the united states decides to show him each day the presidential daily brief. >> which he has the authority to do. >> he has the authority although he has said publicly that it was kelly's decision as to what was going to happen. >> i'm just saying, he has said that kelly was going to make this decision and he presumably would respect it. >> but from your frame of reference, steve, just in terms of whatever it was that jared has been doing, whatever he might be able to do going forward, the lack -- the failure to follow established protocols, when you were working in the obama administration, no matter what you were doing, you would have to go through a chain, an informational chain to -- so people would know what you were doing. >> look, whatever you want to say about president obama, there is absolutely no resemblance between the way the obama white house worked and the way the

trump white house is working. jared kushner would not have set foot in obama white house for several reasons. one because he's not qualified. trump preferred to bring down people who he was comfortable with even though they didn't know what they were doing. secondly the obama administration would not let people in without them being fully vetted and all is this stuff coming out about these people would have been fatal. and thirdly they wouldn't have let somebody in without a clearance and so this is a completely different show, and we'll see how it unfolds. >> look, i think mike is absolutely right. in the end, do you really think that donald trump is going to allow a nicety like the clearance system to interfere with his wishes in this regard? >> it depends if he wants him out if he thinks that mueller is going to move on him. >> this is a secondary question whether this is a convenient way to shuttle him off. but the process of

classification and security and all of that in the executive branch, in the structure flows from the president himself. he can declare -- >> yeah, that jared kushner has a security clearance within his power as president to say i grant him code word clearance. and he will have it. >> he can. call me naive but i think it's one thing to bring in somebody that's unqualified, give him some job, but it's another thing to first say that kelly's going to make the decision, secondly have kelly resoak his clearance and then have the president say i'm going to show you top secret stuff anyway. >> like sergey lavrov, he revealed secret israeli intelligence in a white house meeting. so an oval office meeting so we don't know. i do want to step back really quickly and john, what do you make of the fact that we've seen this sort of slow motion, you

know, sort of this austin powers moment where the steam roller is coming towards and you know what's going to happen and we all just assume at the end that general kelly would be undercut. that didn't happen. >> right well, i mean this is an ongoing story, right? so right now if there is a war between jarvanka and kelly kelly has the upper hand. i want to make one point. something happened to trump and the people around trump those fist couple of weeks when they were -- after the election when they were looking into him, trump divesting himself of his business and his lawyers said you don't have to do this. you are the president of the united states. the executive branch flows from you. you can keep your businesses. you cannot be prosecuted for a crime. and you remember that press conference? and like a lightbulb went off over trump's head that said i'm

bullet proof. i'm in the clear. and whether this thing fwllowed down from him to jared to all these people who came in with no government experience i think that's still very relevant in the white house. the fact that they have a get out of jail free card, or trump has one and it sort of spreads down to his family. >> and white house communications director hope hicks is reportedly refusing to answer some questions relating to the russia investigation. she spent about nine hours in a closed door session before the house intelligence committee yesterday. she was reportedly declining to answer questions about the trump campaign's transition period, but ended up providing some answers after several hours of testimony. according to the new york times, hicks also told house investigators that her work for president trump occasionally required her to tell white lies, but three people familiar with hicks' testimony tell the paper that after extensive

consultation with her and her lawyers, hicks uncysted she had not lied about matters pertaining to the investigation into russia's interference in the 2016 elections, and possible links to trump's associates. the white house did not respond to any questions about hope hicks' testimony. >> so jeremy, what's the relevance of yesterday's headlines regarding the questioning of hope hicks? >> well, it's further evidence, joe, that the white house is stone walling the congressional investigation by trying to employ some executive privilege. although of course the witnesses can't assert it. it has to be the president who asserts it you saw this with jeff sessions and steve bannon and now with hope hicks. i do think at some point it's going to have to be litigated in some way if in fact the white house will not give relevant information to the congress or potentially bob mueller on the president asserting some executive privilege. >> student survivors of the

florida shooting will be back at school this morning two weeks after the deadly massacre. the process for reforming gun legislation however appears to be a much slower proposition. we'll talk to senator joe mansion about where the issue stands on capitol hill but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> more rain is coming, more wind. i know. we have two days of sun and then it rains again. it's raining already this morning through tennessee. round two is coming later today. 12 million people at risk of flash flooding. northeast texas, through nashville. memphis, a small sesevere weath. and this is the area that's going to get one to three inches of rain. rivers are flooding in this area. tomorrow morning at this time i'm sure i'll be talking about flash flooding throughout this region. now let's talk about friday. we have a noreaster coming and this is the same story coming today in areas of little rock and arkansas.

7:00 a.m. friday, winds pick up to 40-mile-per-hour range into bos stn all the way through the mid-atlantic. 35 to 45-mile-per-hour winds so that definitely means airport delays and then by the time we get to friday evening we get wind gusts to 50 to 60 and that's significant winds. no leaves on the trees but we can still get minor power outages. coastal flooding is a sure bet especially up around boston and areas of maine. here's the snowfall forecast. you think snow efferent with a noreaster p it's not going to be a lot of snow in the big cities. mostly rain, but the high elevations of western new york and some elevations in northern new england will get some snow out of that. more impact on the days ahead as we approach friday. top of the rock, new york city, another nice day today and then friday, saturday looks very ugly. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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ahead of the national security agency admiral mike

rogers told senators that america has not used its full power to retaliate against russia for its information warfare in the 2016 election. rogers stressed that he is an operational commander and not a policy maker and like fbi director chris wray's testimony earlier this month rogers said he had not been given a specific directive from the trump white house. >> as i understand, you said that president trump has never ordered cyber com to take any action to defend or thwart elections meds ling this fall. >> i've never been given any specific direction to take additional steps outside of my authority and i have taken the steps within my authority trying to be a good proactive commander. >> but no one from the the administration has asked you to take any additional steps? >> i haven't been granted any additional authorities, capacity, capability, no, that's

certainly true. >> i'm going to try to channel a woman who came up to me at the grocery store. she asked me, are we strong enough and smart enough that we can keep them from doing this again? >> yes. >> okay. so then the next question she asked me, i said the same thing. the next question she asked me, are we doing that right now? >> we're taking steps but we're probably not doing enough. >> okay. so she wants to know and i want to know why the hell not? what it's going to take? >> i'm an operational commander ma'am. you're asking me a question that's so much bigger than me. >> he's the one with the power. all he needs is a presidential directive -- >> i disagree with the premise of your question. it's not just one individual. it's looking at a number of different ways. >> he's in charge of cyber command. why not give him the authority? >> nobody is denying him the authority. we're looking at a number be of

different ways that we can put pressure with this president. it's been much tougher on russia than his predecessor. let's not forget this happened under obama. if you want to blaum somebody on past problems then you need to look at the obama administration. >> this is not about the past. it's about protecting intrusion in the next election. he needs the authority and he hasn't been given it. >> i can tell you we are taking a number of steps to prevent this and a variety of other ways we'll continue to implement over the coming weeks and months. >> so this is what we know. two weeks ago the intel chief came to capitol hill and told members of the senate and the house, i believe, that the russians tried to meddle in america democracy in 2016 and there was a grave threat that they were going to do it again in 2018 and then yesterday we had mike rogers saying the white house has not given him the authority that he needs to

actually stop the meddling. the white house for its part is blaming barack obama, which i understand they're blaming barack obama for the noreaster that's coming up this week as well. >> may as well. >> but i find it confounding. i don't -- what is -- how does the intel community push the president to protect this country? is there anything they can do sf. >> this is incredibly important, joe, because the department of homeland security actually doesn't have the capability to defend our critical infrastructure in the united states. it doesn't have the capability to defend our election systems so it has to be rely on people like admiral roger, people in the intelligence community at nsa and the military at cyber command and if those operational commanders are not given the authority, the capability to actually defend it -- defend us, then we will be defenseless and i think the elephant in the room

if you will is why hasn't the president done it and this question lingering over everyone's mind is does the president actually welcome russia interference. is it something he doesn't believe is a threat but does he want it to p happen because thas the only logical conclusions you go through as an intelligence professional. >> a brilliant dedicated and patriotic guy and he's been head of the nsa for quite some time. he's soon to retire. there's another elephant in the room that you just mentioned and it is the constitution of the united states and the oath that a president of the united states takes before assuming office, to preserve, protect and defend the constitution against the united states, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. so do you know -- do you have a sense of what the morale is within the nsa, within the cia, within the defense department sworn to protect and defend the united states? >> well, look at the working level the folks that i talk to,

they got their nose down, they're working on hard problems, they're highly motivated because frankly the world is a dangerous place, but when you talk about russia and you talk about presidential leadership, there is a despondency because people are wondering whether the commander in chief is really prepared to defend us going forward. i think the point that joe referenced is the right one which is now with anything that happened in the past, whoever wants to cast blame, we have a threat that's looming, that's coming at us. bob mueller laid out some of the ways in his 37 page indictment of the meddling, some of the ways that russia operates. there's trolls, there's hacks, there's agents of influence. there's russians on the ground working to organize rallies. there's agents of influence. there's so many ways that russia is coming at us, if we don't do anything we are defenseless. >> and three senior u.s. intelligence officials tell nbc news there is substantial

evidence that russian backed operatives gained into voter registration systems of seven states prior to the 2016 elections. those states alaska, arizona, florida, illinois, texas and wisconsin. all state and federal officials do agree that no votes were changed and no voters were taken off the rolls. while several of the states were told foreign entities were probing their systems, state officials say none were told that russia and the government was behind it. to this day illinois is the only state to acknowledge its systems were compromised. based on their own investigations the other six states deny they were breached. a discrepancy some say undercore scores how vulnerable. >> there it is. russia is meddling and continues to meddle. a little psycho analysis, i think the word russia is so radio active to president trump and the white house that they resist engaging it on any level

even though this story isn't necessarily about collusion between his campaign it's about the ongoing threat that russia poses to democracy. >> our country. >> this isn't about him. it's about the country. sh >> and complicates matters because elections are not federal matters. they are state and local matters. we have 50 state elections, place, manner, time, how the elections are run are run by states so this spreads the responsibility out of this story. the congress and to the states. that is they're going to have to harden their systems. they're going to have to do what they can to interfere with the meddling not only, you know, from abroad which is a national responsibility, but in the states and that goes to congress. will congress fund efforts to harden the systems? will state legislatures pay the money necessary to harden -- to harden the voting system? >> it's not just the elections. look what they were doing after the parkland shootings. they're meddling and trying to agitate and create dissension

and unhappiness in the whole country. >> i but i think this specific thing, is that somehow these computerized voting systems get compromised and results are changed. so it didn't happen in '16, we don't know how it can happen later. but you know, if you don't look forward, you know, that's what they're -- that's what the enemy of the united states will want to do. >> department of homeland security is actually doing things quietly behind the scenes. i've had people involved in that telling me that personally. we've also had other people involved in the process talking about that but they're ill equipped to handle this. this is our intel agencies are going to have to go toe to toe with russian intel agencies. i do wonder though at what point do republicans stop blocking this because their president doesn't want our systems protected because he somehow sees that as an indictment -- political indictment against his

win in 2016, and when you have a poll that came out yesterday that now 44% of americans believe that russian interference influenced the 2016 election, this is no longer a -- just something that adam schiff is talking about on the house intel committee. this is almost 50% of americans now see this is a major problem. when do republicans act? >> it's a dangerous proposition, joe. i mean, this goes to the heart of how our democracy is set up. can you trust what our states are telling us about the outcome of an election. and increasingly, there are mostly trump supporters who are setting this up as, you know, potentially being able to raise that question in a way that i think other -- there is concern on capitol hill could really be undermining to the entire thing and i really do think the question is, what is the senate intelligence committee going to

do? there is still some bipartisanship. this has been a very concerted effort of their investigation. i think people on both sides are holding out hope that they can figure it out. one of the challenges you mentioned the department of homeland security and what they're doing and i think john could probably speak to this as well. there are a lot of conservativa states that have concerns. and then on the flip side you have a lot of officials in blue states who are concerned about the trump administration. so that collectively is all undermining the national security here. >> yeah. >> all right. coming up, did long time trump associate roger stone perjure himself last year? >> is that a rhetorical question? >> no, this is a question. both he and wikileaks have -- >> can we go back to those

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for the atlantic covering national security and the intelligence community.

she's out with new reporting on the private twitter messages exchanged between roger stone and wikileaks during the 2016 presidential election. >> thank you so much for being here. we've got a quick question. how horrible is jeffrey to work for? you can tell us. >> does he ever smile? >> does he throw things? >> to, not at all. >> scream and yell? because he does every time he comes on the set. >> i'll tell limb yhim you said. >> so roger stone and wnd wikil. >> of course he had said repeatedly that he was only in touch with wikileaks via an intermediary that there was some kind of back channel and that he never communicated with them directly. when i asked him about the exchanges he did have with wikileaks, he said that it wdid

represent the entirety of their communications which led me to believe that there were more communications than merely the exchange that i had obtained, but in that exchange he expressed that he felt like he was a friend of wikileaks, he kind of asked wikileaks to stop pub lekly attacking him because they were trying to distance themselves publicly during the election. but the morning after the election wikileaks reached out again and said are you happy now? we're more free to communicate. >> and stone, he -- he's always shown his hand. what -- what are we to make of the fact that he was saying that podesta is about to go in the barrel, that wikileaks was about to release all these stolen e-mails. we saw the same thing with the person when al franken was about to be attacked. nine hours before franken was attacked he said hey, look, this is coming out. may have done the same thing. may have done the same thing

with spitzer. what -- what are we to make? >> that's the big question. he still denies that he had any advanced knowledge of anything that wikileaks put out, that he was not told about details necessarily about what wikileaks would drop during the election, let alone the podesta leaks but obviously this new revelation that he was in direct communication with wikileaks kind of cast doubt on everything that he said during the election. >> was he under oath when he testified? >> he was under oath. >> what did he say? >> we don't know what he said behind closed doors and i was not able to confirm that he specifically denied talking to wikileaks directly. he has since kind of far rowed his denial saying that he only ever said that he didn't communicate with julianne assange directly. of course the two are pretty interchangeable. he has access to the wikileaks account and he's often the one running it.

so you have to remember that of course he was communicating with wikileaks twitter account which assange runs. >> you said wikileaks pretty extensively and roger stone's relationship to it. did he present himself as representing the trump campaign at any point? did he say i'm here on behalf of donald trump. have you seen that in the communications? >> no, i haven't. he wrote and said i've been publicly deefending you on television, against the sexual assault charges against julianne assange but he also framed it in terms of i, that he was an ally of wikileaks. of course roger stone was in touch with the trump campaign and he was in touch with trump himself during the election so how much of that he actually told donald trump about or anyone in the campaign orbit, we still don't know. >> so jeremy, if you're bob mueller you have so much to work with. you've got roger stone, apparently not telling the truth about his contacts with wikileaks.

you've got of course paul manafort arrested and charged because of his contacts with russian influenced political actors in the ukraine and then you have manafort and stone being business partners 20 years back. this is -- this is not exactly a conspiracy that's well hidden. it's remarkable how all of these characters are colliding together at the center right over the heart of the kutrump campaign. >> and three key witnesses who are now actually providing evidence and information to such council. mike flynn and rick gates, all of them cut plea deals and all of them are now cooperating. i i this it's important to note because the excellent reporting should clarify this. wikileaks is an agent of the russian federation. not only were they doing russia's bidding during the election but actually subsequent

to that they are responsible for the most devastating hack potentially and leak of classified cia materials in the agency's history, the the so-called vault 7 drowhich was released last year. this is why intelligence leaders are sounding the alarm ability wikileaks and if there's a connection between trump's plut c political allies makes it so hard for bob mueller. >> are slamming people that were leaking about the cia. t it's just a -- quite a turn around. so john, it's also interesting -- an interesting part of this story is the possibility of roger stone and donald trump remaining in contact over the course of the entire campaign despite the -- the little perhaps play acting

early on. >> so stone quits or is fired from the trump campaign. roger stone is the author of donald trump's political life. from 1988 onward, the fact that he disappeared doesn't mean he disappeared from trump's life. and one of the unknown questions about the trump campaign is how much roger stone was involved. he's very smart, he's very able. he's a strange guy, but he knows -- he's forgotten more about american politics than a lot of people know. i'm interested in one question which is the -- the dms that you surfaced, stone could use them exculpatorily because basically he's saying hey, you guys, why are you attacking me? i'm like nice to you and you're attacking me. that doesn't exactly sound like an intimate relationship. that sounds like a dm that

somebody sometimes sends something you don't know. like hey, why did you write that head piece about me? that's mean, what did i do to you? >> so i was struck by the fact that he talked to you as though it was bad, because i thought he could say see, this just proves i wasn't in their employ. >> so the messages do seem to corroborate the idea that there was no strategic coordination between wikileaks and roger stone, but then again, according to what he told me yesterday, we don't actually know whether this represented the entirety of their communications. awe parentally they had spoken before. the exchange that i saw and possibly they spoke after. he said that he didn't recall. f but it is true wikileaks says we can't have you going out there and saying falsely that we are associated. because that is undermining the impact of our publications. >> all right. thank you very much for the new

reporting. and still ahead, former trump campaign chairman paul manafort will be arraigned on revised charges in the mueller investigation later this morning. >> so that manafort guy is the guy who was business partners with stone. >> the one on the right there. >> but this time his former co-defendant rick gates won't be with him in court because gates is now on mueller's side. we'll have that part of the russia probe ahead on morning joe.

all right, jeremy bash before we let you go this morning, some final thoughts. >> two things. john kelly made the right decision yesterday. jared kushner was not deemed trustworthy with access to highly sensitive information and john kelly made that decision. it stands for now. second, i think two weeks ago we were talking about hoax and witch hunt and bob mueller is on the ropes. bob mueller through his own actions, getting plea deals from gates and indictmenting the russians, he's solidified his position. the next issue is when will the president of the united states sit down and talk to bob

mueller. >> clear ligates is working with bob mueller quickly. >> i'm going to do the oscars. this is going to be the least watched oscars in 20 years. nobody cares about this race. nobody cares about what's nominated. no one is enthusiastic really wildly about any of these movies. then they're going to claim that this is all because of the terrible controversies about harvey weinstein and metoo and all that and that it's some public backlash. >> this has been happening for some time, though. they keep nominating films, which is fine, that americans just don't go out and see. what's the answer to that? you have these massive billion dollar budgets from avengers movies or art films. >> la-la land from last year made $150 million at the box office, that's good. i'm just saying there's something very specific about this year that it's very likely that a movie about a woman

having sex with a giant fishman in an apartment in baltimore is going to be the best picture. >> the ratings for the oscars have been going down for a long time, just as they have been for olympics. people changed their viewing habits. it's not that kind of culture. >> why not have wonder woman nominated. >> that was the whole point, the whole reason to expand the oscars from 5 to 10 was to nominate wonder woman. >> exactly. >> maybe the post. >> mika is wrapping it up. >> i leave for a minute. >> i'm sorry. who is having sex with a fish? >> stop. go to break. >> it's true. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." how is that? >> two major stories this morning, including new concerns about jared kushner's foreign contacts. carol is with us straight ahead. along with peter baker and jeremy peters of the new york times. "morning joe." >> stop talking. >> the academy award winning "morning joe." >> that's right. >> we're going to win them all this year coming right back.

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this year, we're taking it up a notch. so in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. nobody glows. he gets it. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com today the house intelligence committee interviewed white house communications director and step mom who has some changes she wants to make around here hope hicks. hicks is a close adviser to the president and has been with him since the campaign. so her testimony would provide key insight to investigators. so of course she refused to answer any questions about events and conversations that occurred since trump took office with one committee member saying, we got bannoned.

[ laughter ]. >> oh, my. i thought getting bannoned was when you wake up in a bathtub full of ice with no kidneys. >> he's into the bathtubs too. it's not just me. >> bathtub stories are fascinating. >> it's fascinating. welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, february 28th. >> everybody does it, right? >> what's that for, dissolving things? >> yeah, like kidneys. >> yeah. i think it dissolves things. did you see the first season of "breaking bad"? the bathtub goes from the second floor to the first. >> then you do the bleach thing. >> it gets rid of the gristle. >> what are you -- >> says it right on the bottle. gets rid of the gristle. >> with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. >> mike, how is spring training going? when are you going down to see the sox? >> 14th of march. >> steve ratner and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and

host of kacie d.c. on msnbc. ♪ joining the conversation. new york times reporter jeremy peters. chief white house correspondent new york times peter baker and investigative reporter for the washington post msnbc contributor carol lenig who has new reporting on jared kushner that we'll get to in just a moment. >> i'm disappointed that carol doesn't have the lightning bolts. i don't think it's fair. she has a big story today. >> i know. >> carol is huge. >> you need a scoop sound effect. >> i don't think carol cares and i don't think kacie ever wanted it, but she has a lightning bolt. >> i'm embracing it. >> carol black flag and vincent went into hard core metal. >> i love kacie d.c. do you watch every sunday night? top story, jared kushner whose portfolio includes some of america's top diplomatic priorities no longer has

authority to access the most sensitive national security information, along with other officials unable to be cleared since june of last year. this is according to multiple sources siting a white house memo. kushner has served for more than a year without full security clearances. a rare occurrence for someone at his level. meanwhile, new reporting from "the washington post" that officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate jared kushner by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience. those nations are alleged to be the united arab emirates, china, israel, and mexico, according to current and former u.s. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter. the official said that national security adviser h.r. mcmaster learned that kushner had contacts with foreign officials that he did not coordinate through the national security

council or officially reporting. >> so carol, first, let's just talk about that last item first. obviously when h.r. mcmaster came in as national security adviser, he had known that, did he not, that kushner was the de facto secretary of state in just about everything else in the transition? >> absolutely. he knew that he was not only the president's son-in-law but very much the trusted hand, a person during the transition who had been given the portfolio of meeting with foreign officials. it wasn't a surprise that jared kushner would also want to continue doing that in the beginning days of the administration. what was unusual and quite surprising to the national security adviser was that jared kushner wasn't following the normal protocol. it's one thing to say he didn't coordinate with the national security council. that's correct. he also didn't -- he also had some solo, sort of freelance calls where he didn't get a briefing beforehand, which could have been useful to him in talking to a president or an

ambassador. and he also didn't give a read-out in some instances after the fact about what was the result of the call. all of that is pretty important. >> right. and the process was so scatter shot during the transition a lot of people will remember that trump was going to talk to the head of taiwan. and there was a bumbling around and they didn't even understand -- they did not understand that you didn't do that. that you had to figure out how to coordinate it. it ended up okay, but that's just the way things operated around there. carol, though, let me ask you about the intel that filtered back to h.r. mcmaster that officials from the uae, china, israel and mexico saw kushner as a soft target, somebody that could be played because of his inexperience and also because of his financial difficulties. how solid is that intel? is that just gossip?

again, i'm not suggesting you're reporting gossip. you're reporting what the intel agency -- what they got. how solid do we know that information is? >> well, i think there's a lot to unpack there, joe. first off, we don't publish gossip. >> right. i understand. >> but no, no -- >> i want to be clear because i stated that inartfully. if h.r. mcmaster -- somebody from mcmaster's office got information to you all or somebody from the white house got information from you all, you know, a lot of times they say, well, we saw this intel report that says these four countries think that kushner is an easy play. i'm not saying you do publish gossip, but if you get a source in the white house telling you these things, i'm wondering how solid that information is. >> so it's a good question. and what i was going to say was that we know of at least four countries in which an issue was raised and a concern was raised

inside the white house about the way in which foreign officials were discussing jared kushner's ma nip lability. it's a mouthful. their view at least in their discussions prooivately they we viewing him as an easy mark. somebody they could take advantage of and potentially trick or move in the direction that they wanted to move him. and i guess the reason that we take it so seriously is that it raised concerns inside the white house and again as we published in our story yesterday, it also is one of the reasons that the security clearance has been held up for jared kushner. he's been operating on this interim clearance where he shouldn't have access to top secret information normally but he has for a year. he had an incredibly highly classified portfolio, access to secret code word programs. and in this instance, these

concerns about these conversations were serious enough that it was one of the reasons that his clearance is stalled. >> mike? >> peter, in normal times under a normal administration we would be talking about carol's story, the post story, the times story, just single stories for three-whole hours. these are not normal times. we have everyday a fire hydrant of stories. recently, within the past two days, the special prosecutor bob mueller dropped multiple numbers of charges against rick gates, including tax fraud charges, bank fraud charges, seemingly the purpose is to get more information to get paul manafort to cooperate with the special prosecutor. where does that stand and what is the meaning of all the charges that were dropped? >> yeah. no. that's a great question. i think we should ban the phrase this normal times. find myself using that phrase in the stories way too often. i don't think it has any meaning

anymore. as you say, these are obviously not normal times. story has a half-life of hour or two hours as you say. look, you're right. the gates case in the last few days is fascinating. the prosecutors amass an extraordinary amount of evidence against him, a variety of crimes and then allowed him to plead guilty to two relatively minor ones that will ensure that he doesn't spend a huge amount of time in prison, assuming he cooperates. why does a prosecutor do that? one of two reasons, one, you don't think your case is very strong and don't want to go to court. or two you think you're getting something of value from that defendant, that suspect. in this case, obviously they think rick gates is giving them something of value. what could he give them? he can certainly give them something about his partner paul manafort still under a lot of pressure, possibly to give them something about the campaign itself. rick gates was at the campaign long after paul manafort got pushed out and in the transition before the president took office. he was in a lot of rooms,

meetings on the plane. we don't know exactly what he might tell prosecutors at this point. but if you're in the white house, you're sitting back and wondering what can he say? >> jeremy peters, let me add another story to the fire hose that fits in with all this as we're talking about collusion with russia. we learned yesterday from mike rodgers he doesn't have the tools he needs to fight back against what russia is doing. he has not been granted new authority by the white house. he doesn't have the things he needs to tesktively push back on that will strike people as completely outrageous. stated fact, everyone agrees, that russia is involved in trying to mix in and mess with our elections, why on earth is the white house not giving people authority they need to prosecute the case against russia? >> it's a question the white house doesn't seem to answer or is unwilling to answer as you saw yesterday sarah huckabee sanders wouldn't touch it. in the broader context of russia

and mueller investigation, the reason that the security clearance issue is so important has nothing to do with the amateur hour aspect that it lends to this perception we have of the white house, people there unqualified to do their jobs. jared kushner wasn't involved in politics before the campaign and never been involved in government before he became the senior adviser to the president of the united states. but what mueller is going to be focussing in on are those conversations that jared kushner has had with foreign officials. and there's a question about whether or not he was forthcoming enough when he told congress that he did not discuss financing for his real estate endeavors with the russians. so, that seems to be a big open question here and something that could further on down the road potentially lead to conflict. >> so let me ask you this question. you've been obviously on the trail of the mueller investigation, the headline and peter's story this morning is mueller is gaining steam. should trump worry. i'm going to ask peter about

that. but first, does donald trump, do people at the top of the administration, have reason to worry? >> i've spoken to people who have been questioned by mueller's team in recent weeks, more than one, and the sense is that this is deeply, deeply serious, that mueller is becoming more aggressive with his questioning, that they are zeroing in on something, what that something is vague and mueller certainly isn't giving that up, but this isn't child's play. >> and we said a couple days ago peter baker they already seem to have enough evidence to have manafort dead to center. you don't need rick gates to get manafort. he stayed on and helped with the inaugural committee, was there an awful lot. do people above paul manafort have a reason to worry? does donald trump have a reason to worry? and when you say this investigation is gaining steam,

what do you mean? >> you're exactly right. there aren't a lot of people above paul manafort to worry. president trump would be one of them. jared kushner might be one of them. we don't know that. what the white house will tell you and they're right, so far none of robert mueller's charges, indictments, guilty pleas directly implicated the president or implicated the campaign as an entity in terms of its relationship with russia. the charges so far have been not directly related to things like money laundering and tax charges. but, you know, if you take too much comfort from that you may not be looking ahead enough down the road. what mueller is doing is building brick by brick towards something. what is he building toward? as you said, paul manafort is not, you know, the end of the road for him. where is he going to lead them? paul manafort was under enormous pressure from his debt to a russian ole gark he promised private briefings while he was campaign chief. the question remains unanswered why did he volunteer to run trump's campaign for no pay at a

time when he had great financial distress and a time when he was very fresh from his activities in ukraine. those are questions that are still up in the air and robert mueller has not revealed his hand yet. the white house says they don't have anything to worry about. paul manafort doesn't know anything to implicate the president on. they have been open and forthcoming with the special counsel. but as we were saying earlier, i think jeremy bash was saying in the last segment, the big question coming up next is will the president talk to robert mueller. >> right. kasie hunt, as we have multiple headlines that elude to the fact that the walls may be closing in higher up at the white house, on capitol hill, is there a disconnect especially among those still incredibly loyal to trump? do they talk about what is happening in terms of this? and does it impact their loyalty oath? >> i think it's increasingly clear that republicans on capitol hill the rest of the president's party is on course to have to make a choice.

and if robert mueller, especially if what he delivers at the end of this process is very clear and unambiguous and does end up indicting the president whether actually or in the minds of american public, then the lawmakers will have to come down on one side or the other. there are already some battle lines within the republican party. it's clear for a certain segment russia is a word they don't want to say outloud. they're ready to defend the president basically no matter what. but i think there's a large middle ground of people who either may be they want to run against in president trump in 2020. senator flake is doing politics and eggs in new hampshire. or senators and other esteemed members of the party who don't have presidential ambitions but who do care deeply and are invested in their party and collected national security. but that choice it seems increasingly clear is coming. >> wow. >> i'm reminded listening to

this conversation that there are multiple stories going on. one of the stories that hasn't been a lot of attention hasn't been paid to it is there are multiple people in the media, especially on fox news who would have you believe that each and everyday in washington, d.c. bob mueller gets up and looks at a dart board with donald trump's picture on the dart board and yet i'm going to ask you if it has happened to you as it happened to me. when you talk to people, when you listen to mike rogers yesterday, listen to his testimony, when you welcome to chris wray's testimony a couple weeks ago about being involved in russia investigations. and when you talk to people in the intelligence agencies, you don't hear the name trump so much as you hear the defense of this country, that the country is in trouble. we have to do more to defend the country. so i'm asking you in the course of your reporting and talking to your sources, do you pick up that at all that they are worried about the direction of the country, vis-a-vis defending the country against russia? >> i think it's a really good

question. and, you know, there is a great deal of fear in what you would call the career class of the federal government about making sure that we are protected in the next campaign, that whether or not the government has really made significant efforts to protect the integrity of the election, voter registration data bases, which as you remember, the russians had attempted to hack. and in fact had penetrated some of those data bases. there's a lot of anxiety about that. you know, it's not a deep state concern. it's actually like legitimate concern that the intelligence community has identified. and i hear great anxiety that we've not put our horses on that topic. >> we're going to do really quickly breaking news. >> i know where i'm buying running shoes today. >> which is pretty significant. >> mika? >> dicks sporting goods the

country's largest sports retailer is going to stop selling assault-style rifles and it's going to raise the age of anyone buying a gun to 21. >> good for them. >> which is really significant. >> i'm going to go spend a lot of money there today. >> we're seeing a lot of companies making choices and every company in this free enterprise system has the right to do whatever they want to do. i will say with dick's sporting goods, it makes a lot of sense because my kids, willie's kids, anybody that has kids that buys sporting goods stores guarantee you parents will drive an extra five miles now if they're concerned about this issue. >> i would. >> but it's a choice that they've made now which, again, very, very significant. fed-ex, made a significant choice in the other direction because read a story where they want to corner the gun market. they want to corner the shipping for the gun market, which is an interesting thing. which is interesting.

you want to read the fed-ex story and i'll go to you. >> a dozen major companies ended businesships with national rival association. fed-ex will continue to offer discounts to nra members. a statement on monday said the company, quote, is a common carrier under federal law and therefore does not and will not deny service or discriminate -- >> hold on a second. nobody is asking them to deny service. >> or discriminate. they are actually giving a discount. so, i don't know if -- wait. i'm sorry. does fedex think the american people are stupid? does fedex think they're going to brush past that and really believe that anybody is asking them to discriminate against nra members? because they're not. they're actually giving them discounts for being members. again, from the reports i saw,

steve, they want to corner the gun market. they want to be able to ship the most, i guess, assault-style weapons across america. they want to be able to ship the deadliest guns across america because i guess for them the bottom line is pretty good. but you've got -- i'm hearing people saying they're going to move all of their business to ups. whatever -- help me out. whatever money they may make by cornering the gun market, aren't they going to lose a lot more from corporate clients that are just not going to want to be associated with them every time there's a school shooting or a theater shooting or a church shooting or a country music shooting, doesn't that seem like a short-sided move in 2018? >> look, what's going on in corporate america is really quite interesting because it is i think unprecedented. it's a word you probably should use. i can't remember a time when so many companies have basically leaned in on an issue like this.

companies don't want to get involved in any kind of issue. social issues, political issues, whatever. you had a couple dozen companies that ended their affiliations with nra, hertz, avis, all these people. delta is in a huge fight over the state of georgia whether they'll get their gas tax rebaited. >> by the way, every state around them is hoping they will not because delta will then move their headquarters elsewhere. >> yes. >> just like connecticut lawmakers that insulted general electric, these georgia lawmakers can explain to their people why they have gutted business in atlanta. >> so you have this very significant number of companies that are leaning in. and fedex for whatever set of reasons, whether it's the reason you said or their stated reason which is we don't get involved in sort of political matters, who knows. but that's what they're doing. >> that is their choice. every company has the freedom to associate with who they want to associate with. if that's the choice that fedex

makes that they want to be known as basically the people that corner the market on transporting assault-style weapons, then good luck. >> and dick's by the way is leaning all the way in this morning. they're saying effectively, we respect the law. if you want to get an ar-15, you have to get it somewhere else. they are calling for a move for congress to ban assault weapons or semiautomatic rifles, to ban bump stocks and raise the age to 21 to purchase a weapon. they're going all in on this. if you question the impact these kids are having, the ceo sited the kids when he said they founded disturbing in the news. we love these kids and their rallying cry and it got with us. >> i've gone there a lot with my kids because they're athletes and a lot of moms go there. it's sometimes easier to -- this is a place where moms go to get everything you need for your athlete kids whether you've got a hockey player or runner or football player. it's also easier to buy online.

i suggest everybody -- in fact, we're going on the way home, get your credit card out. and i would reward this company for doing the right thing. we're going to spend a lot of joe's money there. serious. >> that's it. we're going. >> it's mother's who do the shopping for high school athletes. mother's bring their sons and daughters. >> and little league, too. >> totally. >> again it actually makes sense if you're just looking at it from a p.r. perspective. it makes sense for dick's sporting goods because so many people that go in there are students, are mothers who are the ones that are talking to their parents over the dinner table. >> they're the ones afraid to go to school. >> who are scared to go to school. >> really quick, steve. >> look, i'm not denying the morality behind dick's decision, but for all these companies to make this decision, i think shows that public opinion has swung the other way and these companies understand that and actually believe not only will it not hurt their business actually help their business to take these kinds of stands. >> or just doing the right thing. >> we're going to go instagram

it. >> everybody is free to do what ever wants to do. >> they know about this. 14-year-old bruno oliver went back to school today in parkland, florida, for the first time. there's the quote, i'm never going to be the same. that's why dick's sporting goods does the right thing. >> carol, thank you very much. peter baker, thank you as well. more on this developing nudes from dick's sporting goods ahead on "morning joe." and it's one area where this -- there is no pride in seeing the united states far outpacing the rest of the world. steve ratner -- >> this is one area -- let me just -- >> having trouble reading because i was having trouble reading. and i'm very excited to go shopping today. >> this is one area where obviously america should take no pride in doing -- having higher numbers than the rest of the world. >> thank you. >> how american gun deaths are literally off the charts. we'll be talking about it with senate democrat joe manchin and republican congressman tom cole.

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now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. all right. some students at marjoriestoneman douglas high school will be back in school this morning two weeks after 17 students and educator were murder tlerd. the school superintendent says it will be a, quote, phased reopening to help kids, faculty and the community make the transition. school would end before noon during the first week back and broward county officials say the freshman building where the shootings occurred will be torn down and replaced. steve ratner has charts on guns and gun deaths in the u.s. steve, where are we? >> steve, it's interesting. crime rates in places like new york city lower than ever before. deaths by guns down.

crime down and has been on this trajectory for eight years or so. but these mass shootings are the one area that continue to go up. >> that's a great point, joe. there's this dichotomy between what's happening on a city by city, crime by crime level and what's happening with these so-called mass shootings we define by a case of at least four people are killed or injured. you can see in this chart what's been happening. the number of people injured has been rising very steadily. it's not just these horrific tragedies that we focus on but so many more that cause 2,000 people in 2017 to be kinjured ad caused -- >> a mass shooting is what? >> four or more people not including the shooter that are killed or injured in some kind of gun violence of one sort or another. it isn't just parkland, orlando, las vegas. so far this year we've had 98 people killed in the first two months of the year in one of these mass shootings. >> look, it's not a great

surprise as to why this happens when you take a look at the correlation between guns and deaths. and so this graph is a very simple graph that plots how many guns per 100 people each country has. you can see the u.s. all the way out here with 120 guns per 100 people, i.e., more than one gun per person and therefore the most number of gun-related deaths. then you can see all these other countries very much like our's, western european countries, singapore with many fewer guns and many fewer gun deaths. then lastly i would just say coincidentally the prime minister of australia was in washington right after the parkland shooting. and while he took pains not to sort of brag about what they've done, it is a good reminder of what australia has done. in 1996 they had a mass shooting in tasmania. they instituted a set of gun controls that included banning high powered rifles, banning

assault weapons, much more stringent licensing requirements, buy back of guns and you can see what happened to the rate of gun deaths in australia. and by the way, there was no commensurate increase in deaths from other forms of killing. >> and within those charts, steve, you point out that the united states of america 4% of the world's population yet we own 42% of the world's guns. >> that is a correct fact. >> and again, though, i want to say, the dichotomy is as you said gun deaths have been going down. these high profile mass shootings have been going up. and i remember talking to your friend mayor bloomberg who actually said, banning assault-style weapons is not going to have a huge impact. he said this five, six years ago. not going to have a huge impact because it's relatively small percentage of the people who die

from guns. but five or six years later this is looking like an epidemic. and even second amendment champions are saying, man, we have to figure out what's going on here. >> look, the gun deaths in these mass shootings have doubled in the last four years. doubled in the last four years. just by comparison, 590 gun deaths and mass shootings last year in the country, only 286 murders in the city of new york last year. >> let's go now to republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma. hey, tom. i don't want to get into a debate on the specific policy issues. i want to talk much more broadly. i am just curious if you don't mind to go down a checklist bump stocks. would you be fine banning bump stocks? >> yes. >> what about expanded background check? there are really two plans out there, one the nra even supports and that's the cornyn murphy plan. you good with that? >> yes. >> what about as it expands out pat tumy and joe manchin

supported several years ago? >> i would need to look at that. i don't recall the specifics of it. we've been dealing with the corn yn bill. >> assault-style weapons? what's your position on that? >> no. i think that's frankly semiautomatic is a legal weapon. an automatic is not hence the bump stock ban. i would not be for an outright ban. >> how about raising the age from 18 to 21? >> i think that's a decision best left with the states. looks like florida is going to do that, other states have done that. so to me that's the best approach. >> so we've been talking about obviously gun deaths are down. violence has been down over the past 15, 20 years. but yet there seems to be an epidemic of deeply troubled people getting ahold of ar-15 weapons, assault style, military style weapons and going into schools, theaters, baptist churches and shooting people up. how do we -- is there anything that you believe the government

can do to slow down the rate of those mass killings? >> i think there's a number of things we can do. some of them are broad and little amorph is. we need to look at bans from movies to video games. that really hurts some troubled people. second, i think there's some things we can do obviously in terms of background checks. we had a massive failure in florida by both local and federal law enforcement. so those sorts of things can be done. then i think you have to seriously look at hardening some of the targets. it's interesting to me these things don't tend to occur in municipal buildings where there's visible security, airports. they're happening where there isn't any. you have to look at spending serious money and upgrading and hardening those targets so that anybody that thinks about it knows that if they go there they're certainly going to be confronted not they might be

confronted. >> you would support sending money to the states to make that happen. >> i would. i think there's a federal state, local shared responsibility. i don't think we should all be federal. but, yeah, i think that's something we ought to look seriously at doing on a grant basis and do that in the context of the culture of the state. there's probably a big difference between the way people in oklahoma would look at this and maybe the way people in new york city would look at this. so, i think you have to have a flexible program, work with local people. provide them with what they think they need to provide security for their children. >> as part of hardening those schools would you agree with the president that some teachers should carry weapons inside the school building? >> that's very much a individual and local choice. personally i don't think i have a problem with that. i don't think any teacher would be required to do that. you have to have adequate training. if some people wanted to do that, i can't imagine the horror that those students and teachers felt. i know personally if i were there knowing somebody was available that might be able to

stop it would be a help. but again, i think that's got to be done within the context of what local school boards and parents want to do. >> so if a teacher already had a concealed carry permit, for example, they would be fine to carry it in? >> yeah. well, again if that's what the school board decided and they went through the adequate training and background checks, like everybody else. look, that's pretty common in at least my part of the world. conceal carry is not unusual. probably one out of every two households in oklahoma has a gun, so again. that does not concern me. i move in that world everyday. the people that have gone through background checks and hold conceal carry are almost never implicated in any crimes. that's the point. they've been tested. we know who they are. they've given us their information. so, i think those are people that in an emergency situation might be helpful. >> so, you said no on a ban on assault weapons. i'm curious because you said it's a legal weapon. what about making it illegal?

how would that impact your constituents in a negative way? >> well, i have lot of constituents. i live in a neighborhood that's full of people that have ar-15s. i don't think i live in a dangerous neighborhood. they use them for sporting purposes, target practice, it's a normal type thing for them. there are millions of them in circulation, not a few thousands. so, how you would actually get them all back i think would be quite a challenge in this country. >> what if you're not interested -- >> i would rather try other things. >> what if you're not interested in getting them back. at least i said here, confiscation is a nonstarter. but what about stopping the sale in the future so people like nikolas cruz, get angry, get disturbed goes into a sporting goods store and gets a gun and shoots up his school. what about just making purchases in the future much, much more difficult? >> nikolas cruz should have never had a weapon.

39 times local law enforcement visited his home, fbi has credible tips, nothing happened. so, that to me is a system's failure. he certainly should -- people like that if you're talking about particular categories that identifying and making sure they don't get them. absolutely true. he should have never had them. >> congressman tom cole, thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you, congressman. >> appreciate it. still ahead, after a year in office, there are still questions about donald trump's foreign business ties. the trump organization says they just donated foreign profits from its hotels last year to the u.s. treasury, but how much was it? >> and what's going on in panama, by the way? >> i know a good hotel you go to. >> "the washington post" tries to figure it out. we'll speak with one of their lead reporters on the case. "morning joe" will be right back.

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mate. trump says he will soon announce that he's running for re-election. maybe it's just me, if you announce that you're going to announce something, isn't that the announcement? you can't announce an announcement! >> our next guest won a pulitzer prize for his reporting that exposed what donald trump claimed he gave to charity and what he actually donated. "the washington post" david is still on the beat. now he's looking into an escalated standoff at a trump hotel in panama. >> what is going on there? >> david joins us next with his new reporting.

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we have furniture news for you. >> do we really? >> yes. housing and urban development secretary ben carson under fire over the reported purchase of lavish items for his office. the actsy spent 31,000 dollars

late last year to buy a custom hardwood table, chairs and hutch for carson's office. >> that's an expensive table. and hutch. go to ikea. >> ikea. you can get out of rooms to go for under 1,000 bucks get that whole set. >> when was the last time anybody bought a hutch? >> i got stuck on the word hutch. do you put your coat in there? >> dishes. >> go to pottery barn. >> fine china i'm being told. i don't have a hutch or fine china. the white house circulated its plans to slash hud's programs for the homeless, elderly and poor. according to federal records. separately the guardian is reporting that hud has agreed to spend $165,000 on lounge furniture for its headquarters in addition to the reported dining set purchased for secretary carson's office. >> as for the poor, though, willie, who are having their services cut, ben carson said let them eat hutch. >> they're all getting a hutch for their fine china.

>> this is what we call draining the swamp. joining us now from washington, investigative reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc's newest political analyst, david fahrenthold. he won a pulitzer prize for his reporting on the trump foundation and here on a new reporting on a standoff at a trump hotel many panama. welcome. we've been trying to get you over here for a while. >> it's act time. >> thank you. >> since you had your three ring binder and pad with what trumps claim they gave to charity on one side and what they hadn't given on the other side. let's talk about this panama hotel. walk us through the story. >> president trump his company has a hotel down in panama city. they don't own it. they operate it. they have a contract to operate into 2031. it's in hotel shape. they've been losing customers and revenue. the trump brand is not that great in latin america right now, as you might imagine. so the guy who owns the hotel has decided he's going to kick

the trumps out. showed up in panama with a bunch of people and tried to get them to leave and the trump organization is not leaving. so now he's the guy who owns the hotel has enlisted the police in the panama authorities to lever. last year pushing and shoving. someone got hand kufred. the own, he plays the song in a lobby piano. >> so the owner, does he have a right to get rid of the trump organization or do they have some kind of deal they have to adhere to? >> they say we haven't done anything to break it. he says they have broke it by man ji managing it so badly. the owner has shown up and tried to create facts on the ground

there and it seems like he is having more success. >> you have dug into this more than anybody else you know. a lot of people have run away from his brand. we hear trump using his position and kids using his position to make more money. has business been down since january 20th? profits down or profits up? >> it is impossible to know. there are a lot of places we can see snapshots that are not doing well. there is one in panama. the golf courses, none of them are doing well. it is a private company. don jr. was supposedly selling trump brand condos. i don't know if they are making

money or losing money because of the damage of the trump brand. >> it is jeremy peters here. this other story you have been working on, after trump became president and foreign entities wanted to cozy up they started booking rooms across the world. they have left a lot of questions about those profits unanswered. can you kind of go over exactly what we don't know what the trump organization has not told us? >> what they haven't told us is basically everything. they will donate all foreign profits to the treasury at the end of the year. they never specified foreign profits. if a country calls up and says i want to book a room?

if a foreign government, are they going to cover that? they said we gave our donation to the treasury. we said how much foreign profits did you make? they said we can't tell you that. so it was a gesture of transparency. we'll show you how hard we are working to earn your trust. where is your transparency if you don't tell us how you calculated it. >> let's continue with that line of thought, profits from the trump hotel in washington. at some level you get sick of saying it. at some level there's got to be some ethics guidelines that they trigger that are collapsed, that are not followed. at some level it has got to happen. how difficult is it trying to

get a business administration so the public knows are they making money off of the trump presidency? >> that's what we spent the last year trying to do. so we have done a lot of work to find public records to talk to the government. what you get from the trump organization is basically nothing about this. this thing they said they donated money but won't tell you if it is a dollar or a million dollars. there is nothing to show you if they are profiting or not. >> we'll look for your new reporting in the washington post. great to have you with us. kasie hunt, what are you looking at today? >> well, we are kind of focused on what if anything congress is going to be able to do about the

gun issue. i think it was a tough lesson. it does not look as most of the proposals these kids are asking for are going to hawaii theppen. there is this proposal. democrats are saying they will go far enough. they won't do it unless there's a debate on it. we talked a lot about was it going to change anything? i think the answer is looking like no. obviously i think what's happening is a much different story. >> yeah. speaker ryan was pretty clear. he believes it was mental health and not background checks. still ahead, despite a packed white house portfolio kushner has his top credit intelligence revoked. that's not the only headline. we'll talk about it all.

senator joe manchin join us as dick sporting goods announces change in the wake of parkland shooting and what it will and will not sell in terms of guns at its stores. "morning joe" will be right back. palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still? this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace and this is where life meets legal.

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we haven't commented on his issue but we have commented on

his ability to do his job. he is a valued member of the team. he will continue to do the important work he has been doing since he started in the administration. >> a sen yoior adviser just los his security clearance. the nsa hasn't been and a cabinet secretary spent 30 grndd on a new dining set for his office. >> and scandal rocks the bachelor. >> so gross. kushner no longer have been authority to access the most sensitive national security

information siting a white house memo. kushner has served more than a year without a full security clearance, a rare occurrence for someone at his level. he has been tasked with forging piece between israelis and palestinians. kushner engaged this talks with mexico and canada and traveled abroad and has a leading role on criminal justice reform. in a statement a spokesman says kushner has done more than what the expected of him. it is not uncommon for clearance reviews and that the current backlogs are being addressed. the statement also contends no concerns were raised about mr. kushner's application. the washington post reports that

rosenstein personally said new information posed an obstacle to kushner's clearance. new reporting from the washington post that officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways to manipulate jared kushner by taking advantage of his financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience. those nations are alleged to be the united arab, china, israel and mexico according to current and former u.s. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter. they say mcmaster learned that kushner had contacts with foreign officials he did not coordinate through the security council or officially report and that the issue of foreign officials talk ability their meetings and perceptions of his

vulnerabilities was raised in his daily intelligence briefings. one says robert mueller asked people about the protocols kushner used when he set up conversations. a spokesman called the report inaccurate information and said they won't respond further to unnamed sources peddling secondhand hearsay. >> let's start with you. there's so much to take in here, but i think that at least politically the headline is that for the past two weeks we have been seeing this stand down between general kelly and kushner. we all assumed that jared kushner would end up winning out and he will at the end but this was the most surprising thing for me saying that general kelly had prevailed against the

president's son-in-law and got exactly what he said he needed. should we read more into that? >> the president still has some moves he can make. at the end of the day he gets the final say. if he wants to tell kushner classified information he can do that. that's his perogative. i do think this idea that kushner is conducting ensz sis something that the really damaging for him with members of congress, with other stake holders. i mean it's really a completely unprecedented situation you would have our national security intelligence officials getting essentially intelligence agencies to say hey, this guy

that reads the daily brief is somebody that our foreign leersd are actively trying to exploit so much so that we heard about it separately. >> one of the things that's interesting is that hr mcmaster would be surprised jared was having these meetings. one of the complaints was he was meeting with the saudis and meeting with china, russia, israel well before donald trump was sworn in this guy was the acting secretary of state. it was every single day. i don't know how he could have have been shokd. that's how he inherited. >> what happened before the inauguration and what happened after the inauguration. one of the dangers of having people with limited experience

who are kind of getting themselves into sen your positions in the white house is that they come in at high level positions not knowing the protocols that people learn over the course of a career in government. i think it's perfectly plausible that kushner that never served thought about being a white house official suddenly becomes a white house official. people call him ton the telephone. he does whatever he thinks he is supposed to do because his fath father in law, you need to tell everybody what's happening at these meetings. >> one of the things that surprised me during the transition was there was this

feeling that the world began on january 20th, 2017. 1967 borders what are you talking about? i'm talking about the president, everybody. they department want to hear about the messiness and ugliness of whether you were talking about the conflict and what the history was of it or the middle east. they didn't want to hear about it. there was a certain naive quality about it that we are business people. we are coming in here. those state department people are fooled. we have done some of the biggest deals in new york city. that was the attitude. you could see them sort of stumbling through this diplomatic mind field. >> it's always been strange that

new york real estate and guy that owns a newspaper, it doesn't mean he is not a smart guy. the idea that they were going to treat the united states of america like the trump organization and president trump would come in and make a decision and fire somebody and get things done was always nice. it's not like he walked in and said i'm going to be doing this. donald trump had nobody that knew what they were doing around him. he didn't have anybody with real experience. so he told his son-in-law, hey, you go do this. his son-in-law, again, anybody in that position would be ill prepared. they would say we are going to do peace in the middle east and find out three or six months later oh, wait, it's not that easy. >> and you still have jared kushner working on these foreign

policy policies, how does it change what he is able to do? what does it mean? it means he cannot do his job. maybe he could deliver the mail or mow the white house lawn. you cannot be involved in policymaking. you can want go in and prepare the president for engagements. you can't conduct it yourself. reading those intelligence reports each and every morning and working on very sensitive operations with the players in the region.

i can't see a single way jared can engage with any of these sophisticated players without access to information. i think it is professionally fatal for him. . still ahead, russia's influence campaign is getting fiercer and america's defenses are apparently not. the white house blames barack obama. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. to let each one of you

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rogers stressed that he is an operation gnat kmapder and not a policymaker and like chris

raies testimony earlier this month he said he had not been given a specific directive from the trump white house. >> you said president trump has never ordered to meddle in the elections, is that correct? >> i have never been any specific correction to take outside my authority. i have taken those in my authority trying to be a good proactive demander. >> and no one has asked you to take any additional steps? >> i haven't been granted any capability. that's certainly true. >> i will try to channel a woman who came up to me at the grocery store not too long ago. she asked me, are we strong enough and smart enough that becan keep them from doing this

again? >> yes. >> okay. so the next question she asked me. i said the same thing. the next question she asked me, are we doing that right now? >> we are taking steps but we are probably not doing enough. >> okay. she wants to know and i want to know, why the hell not? >> you're asking me a question that's so much bigger than me. >> he's the one with the power and means to do it. all he needs is a presidential directive. >> i disagree with the terms of directive. >> he is in charge of cyber command. why not give him authority? >> we are looking at a number of different ways we can put it at this president. it has been much tougher on russia than his predecessor. it didn't happen under president trump if you want to blame somebody on past problems you need to look at the obama

administration. >> this is not about the past. it is about in the next election. >> exactly. >> i can tell you we are taking a number of steps to prevent this and we are look at a variety of ways we will implement over the coming weeks and months. they said that the russians try today meddle and there was a graver threat they would do it. it has not given him the authority he needs to stop the meddling. the white house for its part is blaming barack obama which i understand they are blaming barack obama for the nor'easter that's coming up this weekend as well. >> may as well.

but i find it confounding. how does the intell kpunty push the president to protect this country? is there anything they can do? >> this is incredibly important. the department of homeland security doesn't have the capability to defend our election systems. it has to rely on people like rogers and people in the intelligence community in the military at cyber command. if those commanders are not given the permission, the authority, the capability to defend us then we will be defenseless. the question i think lingering over everyone's mind is does the mt. act dhumly welcoually welco interference? that's the only logical

conclusion you go to if you're an intelligence professional. we knew he had some contact with wikileaks and we are learning how much. the atlantics has brand new reporting about private twitter messages between long-time trump associates and wikileaks. she joins us next on "morning joe".

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new reporting on private twitter messages. >> thank you for being here. we have a quick question for you. how horrible is jeffrey to work for? >> does he ever smile? >> he does. >> does he throw things? >> not at all. he does every time he is on the morning joe set. >> he breaks things. >> i'll tell him you said that if he's not watching. >> what do you got? >> roger stone dm 'ed private

messages during the election. he said repeatedly he was only in touch and he never communicated with them directly. when i asked him about the exchange he did have he said it departme didn't represent the entirety which lead me to believe there were more communications than what i obtained. he asked wikileaks to stop publicly attacking him. stone, what are we to make of

the fact that they are predicting wikileaks was about the obtain all of these stolen e-mails. he was about to be attacked and he said hey, look, this is coming out. may have done the same thing. obviously this new kind of cast doubt on everything he said during the election. >> was he under both? >> he was. >> what did he say? >> we don't know. the transcript has not been made

public. i was not able to confirm he denied talking to him directly. he said he only ever said he didn't communicate can asange. he it has access and is often the one running it. >> you have studied this pretty extensively. did he say i'm here on behalf of donald trump. i have been defending you against the sexual assault charges but he always framed it in terms of he was an allyov of

wikileaks. how much of that he actually told donald trump about or anyone in the campaign orbit we still don't know. >> okay. thank you very much. coming up on morning joe senator joe mansion was on the front line of the gun debate but after the florida shooting he says it's up to the president to lead. the west virginia democrat weighs in on that and the developing news that dick's sporting goods is making a major shift when it comes to selling guns. >> it is the largest in america. >> we'll be right back.

bp's natural gas teams use smart app technology to share data from any well instantly. so they can analyze trends and stop potential problems in their tracks. because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. want us to do about what woulthis president?fathers i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they had just repelled an invading foreign power. so they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack. the justice department just indicted 13 russians for sabotaging our elections. an electronic attack on america that the chief investigator called "warfare". so what did this president do? nothing. and is he doing anything to prevent a future attack?

the head of the fbi says no. this president has failed his most important responsibility- protecting our country. the first question is: why? what is in his and his family's business dealings with russia that he is so determined to hide, that he'd betray our country? and the second question is: why is he still president? join us today. we have to do something.

we have been down this path before. there are bipartisan differences about how to address this issue

that continually snagged every effort. so what's suggested is that we take something we all agree on, not in anyway claiming but at least show some progress towards dealing with one element of the problem. >> all right. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell on whether-a path forward for gun legislation. and we should pause. well, why dent yon't you take i. >> we'll get you a microphone here. >> and brian is joining our conversation. senator, great to see you. you have been in the middle of this gun debate for years now. you have a state with a lot of gun owners and you have had to walk the line a little bit. i want to play for you what the

ceo of dick's sporting goods said about his company's decision and the company's previous policies on gun sales. let's listen. >> you would have this temporary suspension of assault weapons but then you came back to selling them. >> we said we would temporarily take them out of the dick's sporting goods stores. we never put them back. we developed the chain field and stream which was a full on complete hunting and outdoors stores. we put them in those stores. looking at those kids and those parents it moved us all unimaginably. we said we are taking these out of our stoors permanently. >> are you ready for backlash? >> we are. >> here is what dick's announced. they will take out

semi-automatic rifles. will no longer sell firearms under 20 years of age, no longer sell bump stocks. >> i buy at dick's. i shop dick's quite frequently. there's an old saying, follow the money. the market is adjusting right now. they will see if they lose any of their customers or if they build a customer base off of it. these children have made a difference. things are happening. we'll see where it goes. you know, we are -- i have said this. the reality if the president gets behind something it will give republicans enough courage to do what he has done. that's what we are dealing with. i will go to the white house and we'll lay out the bill again. it is common sense and protects

the second amendment rights. it takes commercial transactions or on the internet. they have to be background checked. it makes sense. it doesn't take away anyone's freedoms or rights. if you don't know that person and if the terrorists advertised if you want to get it go down to local gun store and go buy it. we want to stop that. >> so a private company can do as it pleases. it is also calling for congress to do what it has done. it wants to restrict gun sales, get rid of ar-15s. as a legal question do you a problem with any of those plo po -- proposals? >> i didn't find a democrat or republican done for that. no fly list. don't you think we should be

cautioned before they let you go buy a gun? so many things that make sense. 21 is a no brainer. you have to be 21 to do that. >> the ar 15 is different. i don't own an ar 15 for do i have a need to buy one. i have a lot of friends that do own them. they not commits crimes. they bought them because they could. >> do you believe they ought to be able to buy them going forward? >> the market is going to

change. i'm on this one here. there's not enough votes to pass that. >> we just had tom coal as well. he kind of walked up to the line you're walking right now. he said bump stocks are okay. banning the sale of an ar-15 is where he draws the line. do you agree with that? >> you don't have the votes for it. >> how would you vote? >> i would say i don't have any friends that owned a gun right now. i wouldn't take their gun away. >> sully. >> it is an interesting move. as part of our documentary the rise of america's gun we spent a lot of time with ar-15 owners. the amount of households that owned guns has not moved much in 40 years. we think more have owned guns.

it's not true. people that own guns tend to own more. if you own two now maybe you own four. we are dealing with constitutional issues. from the business side i find there are some big retailers, bass pro shops and a few others. so there is work on the larger side to do. there are only so much big chains can and will do. i do find it interesting that the guy that founded this he famously said that no honest man needs more than ten rounds in a gun. there you have the founder of a gun. smith and wesson tried to create a smart gun technology. they got a $3 million grant from the federal government. the industry basically, the stock fell 85%. the industry went after smith and wesson. they pulled back.

you're dealing with market issues and dealing with industry issues. >> go ahead, senator. >> let's get back to the basics. we can't even get a sensible reasonable background check passed. i'm saying it has been here five years. we have had every responsible law-abiding gun owner. they department have a problem with it. the previous add mip strags they did not think was favorable towards guns. >> i'm sorry. senator, congress can do something to get ahead of what is coming. i have personally fired an ar-15 that was partially built with 3d parts. i permly fired the gun as part of the documentary. congress has the chance now to

be proactive on the next generation of technology, does it not? and selling stuff in stores is one thing. making things at hoechl me is a different thing. >> you have been around washington long enough. i have been here long enough too to understand that we can't move anything unless there's a movement from leadership. if the republicans who have control of the white house, the house and the senate is not going to step up and do something then you're just wl whistling in the wind. these brave young people have moved this market mar than i have ever seen movered. they will have a national march on march 24th. you have corporations for the first time taking different positions they have never taken before. you have delta. here is what i have said to delta. if georgia wants to throw them out, come on, there are other states that will take them.

that's what they want to do, fine. let's see what happens. that will be more. the old saying follow the money will do more than we are able to do here because of lack of will to do something. >> senator, good morning. now, you have been at the center of this debate -- >> longer than i should be. >> longer than you should be. as he was eluding to earlier there is a small bipartisan agreement. one of them seems to be this fix nix bill. senators haven't agreed to give their support if that's the only thing on the table. they want a broader more comp hence ifr piece of legislation like yours. do you think it is wise for democrats to with hold their votes in hopesov of getting something bigger? >> i don't think it's a wise move at all. you take whatever step you can. the thing is that's in our bill.

john has separated that. that's fine. that's where we start. i want to make sure we can have a process. if you're going to have a responsible backgrountd check bill and the president wants background checks it has been longer and it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. it keeps not knowing somebody from buying a gun at a gun show or on the internet, period. it did an awful lot of other things as far as school safety and mental illness. i'll use whatever base we have to work off of we'll try to build off of that something that's reasonable. democrats will be reasonable and responsible on this. there are some that want to go a lot further. i understand that completely. we have got to get something accomplished and something passed. >> thank you for being on the show this morning. >> i was going to say, just to

clarify this, after sandy hook the ar-15s if there was questions. >> we are seeing the movement and he says he is done this time. >> they have certain types of guns or magazines. the atfs facility where they track guns around the country, it is in martinsburg, west virginia. they are looking at 40-year-old

pieces of paper by hand. they think this with where we are. >> up next, democrats flip two more republican held state house seats in areas won by donald trump. we'll have that story. keep it right here on "morning joe".

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last night democrats flipped their 38th and 39th seats since president donald trump fwachl president. a seat has been held for more than 40 year. in new hampshire, a city trump won by 30 points democrats won by 7 points flipping from republican to democrat, the fifth time it happened othver t last year. this is as they moved the special election in the 18th congressional district from lien republican to toss up. president trump carried that seat in the pittsburgh suburbs by 20 points. yesterday the democrat in that race, conner lamb reported

raising $3.2 million in the first severn weeks of 2018. >> we all think we need to go pittsburgh for that. we kept talking about after donald trump and the republicans within that the most damming thing against democrats was losing all of the state legislate i legislative races. the light turned on for democrats now and now it's republicans who are losing scythe seats they have held for 40 years, for 100 years. >> to say republicans are panicked is an understatement. they looking at pulling from the races that shows republicans either light either slight layly -- slightly ahead or dead aerch.

-- even. >> they won't distance themselves from say background checks. >> in pennsylvania president trump won 16 months ago by 20 points. it is now a toss up. the opposite has happen. there is no distancing. trump tweets about him from time to time. they are counting on president trump to push him over the finish line. >> will he go? >> i don't know. he went to alabama and embarrassed himself. maybe he can't help himself. does he really want to lose aga again? >> paul manafort set for firstover two court appearances f . we'll set the stage for that just ahead on "morning joe".

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the shoe is on the wrong foot, willie. they put his shoes on the wrong feet. >> they almost got away with it. >> former trump campaign chair paul manafort is scheduled to appear in federal court this morning, manafort's first court appearance since his co-defendant and long-time deputy rick gate struck a plea deal in the mueller probe and pleaded guilty last week. with us, former fbi special agent clint watts and msnbc justice and security analyst matthew miller. thanks to you both.

>> clint, let's start with you. boy, from everything we're hearing, it looks like the mueller -- the fapace of the mueller investigation is heating up. americans are getting behind of this you look at the polls, 58% of americans have a great deal of confidence in mueller. 57% of americans say they don't have any confidence in donald trump's denials. and they just -- i mean, now gates is working with him. do you agree with "the times," the pace is picking up and donald trump has something to worry about? >> i think for sure. manafort is in compromised crossfire right now. you have oligarchs on the one end, the mueller investigation in the states. he owes money to lots of people and the records are just damning. his one ally could have been gates, if they were fighting together they could have made a better case. but now that gates is essentially working with the investigation, he's in a very bad case. ultimately we're looking at a case that's going to go on for a while, and the longer manafort

doesn't plea or doesn't go to trial, this just really is damaging for the white house, i'm sure causing chaos internally. >> matthew miller, what does hope hicks' testimony yesterday, her refusal to talk about her time in the white house, what does her approach and posture to that committee tell you? >> you know, i think we've seen a parade of witnesses from the administration, some from the campaign, some in the white house, come into that committee is basically stonewall, assert false privileges as donald trump jr. did, claiming he had attorney/client privilege for a conversation with his father. and i think hope hicks went in yesterday knowing there was no penalty to stonewalling this committee. the committee has made clear that people can come in and refuse to answer their questions and there will be no consequences. they won't hold them in contempt, they won't move to court to try and compel an answer. so it was a very easy opportunity for her to go in and

just not answer the really important questions like what happened with that false statement that the president wrote last year about the meeting in trump tower. but that said, one person she can't stonewall is bob mueller, and we know she was in talking with his investigators for two days. so while this kind of side show on the hill continues, the big investigation march is on. and i'm sure mueller got the answers he needed to out of her. >> jeremy? >> i think matt is exactly right, this is a commentary on just how partisan that committee has become. it's taken so unseriously by the white house, and the people around the president, that they feel there is no penalty whatsoever to saying i'm not going to talk to you. but he's right, you can't do that with robert mueller. i wonder, clint or matt, if you have a thought on exactly how the jared kushner security clearance issue ties back into all of this. i mean, this is not just a question of whether or not there are competent, able people

around the president. this is a bigger issue about what he may or may not have told investigators and congress, is it not? >> yeah, i think it's a big issue about having different stories to different parties. this is where you can really get caught up. it's not unusual in the business world to sort of massage messages. but in the government space, when you're talking about sf-86 security clearance form, multiple copies of it, why didn't you update this, what was a contact, what wasn't, and you're watching overseas several different countries talking about influencing the white house, this is very damaging. and whether it's manafort, trump junior, kushner, we see a very similar pattern with these influence efforts going on from overseas. >> clint, let me ask you something. i read a fascinating article last week in "the new yorker," masha gessen who we've had on this show and is a severe critic

of vladimir putin, and has no reason to whitewash what happened last year, show wrote that the plan to meddle in american elections was not sophisticated and bold, she says the plan was as bold as keying a neighbor's car under the cover of night. she threw a couple of buckets of very cold water on the idea that the russians were sophisticated in meddling in our elections. i don't know if you read the article. >> yes. >> okay, so you read the article. what's your response? >> i think it comes down to two things. sophisticated in its breadth. you're talking about multiple elements of the russian government. you're talking about multiple elements of even russian society trying to do the influence. but any one part isn't that sophisticat sophisticated. buying ads on facebook is not sophisticated. sending people to trump tower for a meeting is not that sophisticated. from my perspective, we were watching them do influence from my house, on a laptop. it can't be that sophisticated if three guys from laptops in

the u.s. can figure it out just by watching social media. so to that extent she's right, i think the sophistication is how many pieces of this effort were all focused on the u.s. election. that part i somewhat disagree with her on. >> matt miller? >> yeah, i think clint's right. look, i have often wondered how much of an impact the facebook ads, the facebook posts, all the activity on twitter have. obviously it's impossible to know. but we do know the hacks of john podesta's e-mails, the hacks of the dnc e-mails had a very big impact. i was at the democratic convention, what the hacks revealed about the dnc taking a stand against bernie sanders in the primaries. candidate donald trump himself talked multiple times about the podesta e-mails in the final month of the campaign. did it have an outcome on the election? there's no way to know that answer because we don't know why voters voted the way they did. but it certainly was a big

factor. >> matt miller, clint watts, thank you both. we'll be watching the manafort story play out today. >> no doubt. willie, final thoughts on is in the bat-- on "the bachelor"? that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks it up right now. >> thanks, joe, thanks, mika, hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. we start with access denied. jared kushner loses his top security clearances, sparking questions on how exactly he can do his job. >> he's effectively in the same status as the people who work in the white house kitchen or mow the lawn. >> work in the white house kitchen, wow. hope hicks' appearance before the house intel committee drawing mixed reactions. >> this is not executive privilege. this i