good morning, everyone. coming up on msnbc "your business." how you acquire another company and then successfully assimulate them into your company culture. the owners of dog sitting company rover who acquired their biggest competitor tell you how they dealt with those challenges and how the owners of two cafes catering to our four-legged friends on how they dealt with government regulations. all that, plus what you need to know to evaluate whether you are a good leader. let's grow fast and work smart. that's all coming up next on "your business." >> your business is sponsored by american express open. helping you get business done.

hi, there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business." the show dedicated to helping your growing business. couple years ago we want to santa monica, california, to meet the founder of dog vacay. matches pet owners with pet sitters. their biggest competitor. we decided to head over to rover seattle headquarters to find out what it takes to smoothly merge two different cultures and two different teams and two different platforms in a way that makes sense for the company and the customers. it was just another regular work day at the santa monica headquarters of pet sitter booking company dog vacay. that is until it wasn't. >> that morning our ceo actually called an all hands meeting and brought the whole company in and sat us down and basically said, hey, we're being acquired by

rover. which was kind of a shock for us. it was a shock for the employees. but not for the executive team. they had been working on this for years. aaron easterly dog vacay's biggest competitor had always considered the possibility of merging the two companies. >> does it make sense to put this thing together early? i think at the time there wasn't a lot of interest, but we continued that conversation for five years straight. >> and they met with other ceos to understand what it really takes to bring two companies together. >> talked to people at grubhub and seamless. a number of marketplace deals that consolidated that we talked to the leaders of that in depth and, generally, the advice was, whatever the plan is going to be, it's going to be debatable. so, just have to accept the fact that there's going to be imperfections. butclarity.

don't waver and move very fast. >> in march of 2017, after years of conversations, rover acquired dog vacay in an all-stock deal. >> look at all the value that could be created with this deal, but most of the value comes from the tough choices that happen post-close. and your ability to execute well as a combined team. >> the first order of business was getting both teams onboard. employees found out just moments before the press release went out. >> that's what we led with. you know, we're very proud of this. and very impressed by what you've done. but here are the choices we had and here is what we decided to do. >> some choices like closing dog vacay santa monica headquarters and migrating users to one platform affected dog vacay employees in a big way.

so the executive team built in time and space to give them a chance to react and they purposely had the dog vacay and not the rover management team run the meeting. >> shout, get angry, express frustration. we wanted people to have a chance to do that and then take them through the logic. by involving the dog vacay management team in the decision then it becomes easier to land that message because it's not coming from the new company, the strangers. it's coming from people that they trust. >> seattle actually sent customer service agents to help cover the phones because we knew we were about to get flooded with calls and they actually took care of all that for us so our people could kind of spend the day processing what was happening and taking it it in. >> teams met to talk about how to create the best company possible for customers. >> one of the things we tried to do was really make sure we learned from what they had learned because the businesses were so similar, we were

exploring a lot of the same problems and there were times when they had already investigated something and we thought, hey, that was a really good idea. >> before the newly merged company rolled out platform changes, they detailed an faq on both sites. >> all the questions that people would be nervous about right away and then automate the work. >> this helped clients like patrick cepner feel confident they could still depend on the company to find dog sitters for their furry friends. >> whenever a company gets acquired i'm nervous. it was one of the easiest transitions i ever had. it's been great. everything kept working. >> for sitter savannah, the changes were seamless that other than the announcement, it was business as usual. >> the website, you know, said we're migrating. i joked to someone the other day, basically the color scheme changed and the logo. that was basically it.

it was a seamless transition and i enjoyed doing the rover as much as dog vacay. >> but it wasn't all smooth sailing. >> it happened so much faster than we thought, but because of that we had some consequences. a better job of kind of having flexible support capacity in that initial period had we understand how fast we would move. >> also it meant losing some great dog vacay talsglan talent >> the employees we wanted to maintain or move to seattle. we would have three to six months to have that conversation. the whole process moved so quickly that some of the employees that maybe wanted to retain were off looking at new opportunities three weeks in. >> ultimately, aaron says looking back he learned the most important factor to the success of a merger is knowing exactly who you're jumping in the mud with. >> the asset of the company, but perhaps more important are the team you're going to be dealing with at the company.

and, ultimately, do you have confidence that that team is going to be equal partners in the process that needs to take place. and i think we were very fortunate with that and i think people underestimate the importance of that when evaluating deals. >> thanks to the acusition they have the largest number of dog walkers and sitters in the u.s. >> we expect rover to be a global brand. our mission is to make it possible for everyone even if they're single and career oriented and even if they're living in a big city with no yard to make it possible for everyone to have a pet in their life. >> many businesses have to deal with government regulations and that is particularly true in the pet industry. that was the case for two entrepreneurs who opened pet cafes on the east and west coast. they each braved the red tape

using a common social mission as leverage. first a hit in the nation's capital and now in the city of angels, crumbs and whiskers offers sips and nibbles surrounded by meow misfits, and masters at the art of sleeping. >> even my most supportive friends they'd be like, that sound really cool. cat cafe. nobody got it. we need a place for creamers and milk to go, which i was thinking, should be up there. >> undeterred she knew that having a traditional business that could also offer rescued cats a cage-free and happy life was definitely her calling. along with the help of her brother, the pair forged ahead with the novel concept, but soon stumbled upon some major roadblocks. because of strict u.s. health codes, mixing animals into the cafe fold was virtually a

nonstarter for regulators in the food industry. >> my first meeting with them sucked. my second meeting with them sucked. nobody was taking me seriously. they were laughing at the concept. >> knowing she was desperate for credibility, she circled back to the local humane society. the animal shelter agreed to provide her rescued cats for adoption, once her business was established. >> i said we need to do a presentation and i need a credible source backing me. so, for that third meeting we went in with the vp of operations. people knew who he was and respected him. >> that move was what they needed to open regulators' minds and agreeing and finally gave them the green light. >> i think our social mission. the fact that we have an impact that it is not just a business, a huge giving component to it. it always worked in our favor. >> but without many examples of cat cafes to follow in the u.s., the pair's first business plan

flopped in some areas. >> when we first opened we got slaughtered. every review said too many people, it's too crowded. the cats are stressed out. >> we didn't think through every aspect of the customer experience. from the moment they xhcheck ino the moment they leave. >> too member many customers a enough cats caused cat fights of the human kind. too much focus on marketing and virtually no attention paid to operations. >> we killed it on the press, we killed it on like the marketing, it just was absurd because now we've built up all this buzz and hype that people want to check us out and we completely lost it on the operations. >> the only way to deliver the perfect experience was to cut down on customer capacity and raise prices. >> i was really scared because that was not in our business plan. we're taking a hit and that's not something we planned for. that was the only way to make it sustainable. >> today crumbs & whiskers have

had hundreds of visitors, fostered hundreds of cats and found loving homes for many. on the other side of town, sarah wolfgang owner of the dog cafe was also trying to revolutionize the world of animal adoption. >> why are you causing so much trouble? >> she'd seen cat cafes sprouting up across the country and wanted nothing more than her dreams of licks, loves and lattes to come true, too. >> we had kind of wanted to form or establish the dog cafe on the backs of these types of cafes because they had already been through the health department aspect of things. that just didn't work. every time we called them, you must be out of your mind. this is the health department's worst nightmare. >> she spent month after month negotiating. >> when you're dealing with a new idea and trying to navigate the government to say yes taan

ide idea it's important to be on their side first. tell them what they want to hear. >> staying determined while getting creative with possible solutions is what gave sarah the go ahead. >> finally, i was like, what if we happened to have two stores that happen to be next door to each other that one store happened to sell coffee and one store happened to sell dogs and people took their customers into the location? if customers do that with their own free will, that's okay. >> she had the approved plan but lacked the funds needed to get going. she realized by tapping into a community that was like-minded, she found many with the desire to give back. >> we had like a pro bono lawyer that wanted to help us with the formation of the company. we had a real estate broker who went in to help us find a location. we had a design team that wanted to ehelp us design stuff.

>> sarah has built a loyal customer base who shares her passion for helping overlooked pups. >> they genuinely appreciate dogs and they genuinely appreciate the fact that we're able to rehabilitate rescue dogs and find them their forever homes. >> when i was in business school, a long time ago, one of the most popular classes was called inner personal dynamices and the idea is that you have to be incredibly self-aware to understand how people are perceiving what you do. so, it's not just about what you think is right, it's about whether what you think is right is being heard and received by the people on the other end. and you've got to do this well in order to be a good leader. our next guest is jeremy, ceo of giant worldwide, a global leadership consulting company and this is your thing. this is all you talk about.

>> this is what we spent most of our time. helping people get better. >> so, you -- i think it was helpful you divided people into four different categories. tell me what they are. >> when you think about most leaders. you have leaders on how they do support and challenge. leaders who are dominators who have a tendency to bring high challenge, but very low support. you have people who have a tendency to be support driven so they're protectors. they support people and they don't share expectations very well. they don't share challenge very well. then you have a category of abdicators. they're just tired. they're worn out and ready to retire and bring low challenge and low support and then the best leaders in the world are what we call a liberator. brings high challenge, high support, simultaneously. they learn how to calibrate it like the best coach you ever had. the best professor you ever had. >> it's interesting as you say these, i'm sure the audience, as i'm thinking, oh, this boss i

had was this. and i can think of times when i was a dominator. i can think when i was an advocator and how many people do you think are aware enough to put themselves in the right box? >> it's interesting. not very many. very, very low percentage. we have one leader i was working with once. so fascinating. when i laid out all the quadrant and let them see. do you mind if we ask your people what they say about you. he said, no, go for it. guys, what do you think of your boss here? they were afraid to share in front of him. >> which means are they a dominator then? >> yes. do you mind if you leave. we'll call him joe. so joe leaves the room. they put him in the dominator category overall. he comes walking back in and he goes, are you kidding me? did you throw me under the bus in front of this guy. where did you think you were, joe? put himself up in the liberator. >> he thought he was supporting and challenging people. >> that was his learning curve.

you're overdoing it. what support do you need? and it was really basic things. i mean, it wasn't hard stuff. but they didn't feel supported. >> he didn't think it was important and they did. what questions, give me a few questions we can ask ourselves to try and start the conversation, at least with our selves and then go to the team. >> the question most people are asking is, are you for me or against me or are you for yourself? so the whole idea is, do people know you're for them. then to ask yourself, are you for your people? truly, are you fighting for their highest possible good? do you want them to succeed or not? that is a question a lot of people can ask themselves. >> different people need different things. how do you determine, okay, you need a little bit more support and you just want me to challenge you most. you think of that as support. >> it starts with yourself. it starts with what is your tendency. so, i know for my instance my tendency is to support, a lot of

excitement. hey, jj, aren't you glad to be part of the team? not challenge. i'll have a tendency to hint at people. if i know myself and my tendency and let's say i know you. if i know you, i will know how to lead you. or i should. i need to learn how to challenge better. if i'm talking to you, what does challenge look like to you and what does support look like to you? if i could answer those two questions i'm on my way to serving you better and leading you better. >> if your employees know that you're trying and feel comfortable coming to you and saying, i need this for support. >> then you're a person people want to follow and not have to follow. i'm all of those things. i could be a dominator, liberator all in one day. >> this is a great beginning to start to think about this. i know there is so much more and a lot of work people need to do. thanks so much. i'm here with this week's

elevator pitcher. confr congratulations on being here. and your new app. and you are a chef and cookbook writer, ever a business owner before? >> this is my business at this point, so, yes. now yes. >> you're used to pitching to publishers, but not to investors. >> that's true. this is my first investment pitch. >> you're going to talk to two people who will give you great advice. the first one is jennifer, she built it from an idea, just like where you are right now to a company that is now in five countries around the world. >> amazing. >> and then andy dunn who started back in 2007 and he just recently sold it to walmart. >> oh, good to know. awesome. >> let's see how you do. come on. >> hi, by way of introduction i'm a chef and cookbook author and first time mom. i created this app edible

adventures that teachers kids about global citizenship, diversity, social studies and follows a young chef's travels around the world and back to her mom's cooking kitchen. you learn so much from geography to culture to heritage. you are still cooking in that app and print out the recipe at home, too. i have found creative ways to bring it into curriculum from social studies to after school to even a summer camp program. i self-funded this app to get it into the hands of kids that need it. but do well by doing good. and i'd like to create business lines to help fund the good work. some product expansions could be a tv series or a digital series, animat animated. a book series and other product extensions. in an age when we have a movie like "black panther" amazing to see how far we've come, but also points to the work that still needs to be done for all children to see themselves in their unique and deserved place in this world.

>> you have great, big plans. how much money do you need at this point to get a big step forward? >> i think at this point i need $200,000. >> okay. both of you, $200,000. i need a number from one how much money do you need at this point to get a step forward? >> i think at this point i need $200,000. >> both of you, $200,000. i need a number from 1 to 10. first, what do you think of the product? second, what do you think of the pitch? my kids had had a chance to try this. and it was amazing. they were totally, particularly my 8-year-old, was totally enthralled. both of you have been in this position, right? 2006, 2007 when you founded our companies. let's start with you, jennifer. >> sure. i give the product a 9. i have a 6-year-old, 9-year-old, 13-year-old. and they all loved it. even the 13 ready kwraoe liked

. i think what's great is the social security aspects. we're not a big cooking family, but they were enthralled by that. they have never seen cooking going on in their own house. what are they talking about? they love that the helicopter takes them to different countries. and as far as the pitch, i would give it an 8. it certainly wasn't lower. i think 8 for me was the minimum that i would give it. i think a little more energy and explaining a little bit more about the future and where you think this can go. i thought it was a really good pitch. >> thank you. >> you're up, andy. >> so i'm a 10 and a 9. it is awesome. just the look of just seeing the graphic rendering i think for a start-up to have that quality of aesthetic, it sort of drew me in. i want to play with it. i know it's for kids. in terms of the quality of the

idea, maybe i'm biassed. my mom is an immigrant from india, grew up with food from an amazing culture, learning about that and transferring it to all other cultures is a really important issue and kids will love it. the pitch is a 9. i thought your energy was great. it is hard to nail everything you said and do it in a way that is both articulate and positive. so i was drawn in. i think the one opportunity, the gap between 9 and 10 is when you talked about the future of business extensions, books and otherwise, there's probably not time for that in the initial pitch. focus on the core product and why that product is going to win and leave the extensions for follow-up conversation. >> all right. congratulations. >> thank you. >> those are some good scores. thank you for coming and sharing your product and your business and best of luck going forward. you two, thank you so much for your great feedback. when we come back, what you should be looking for when hiring mid-level managers.

and how getting out of your comfort zone can be the first step to growing your business. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you. so we're doing it. yes. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. ♪

>> we're about 100-person company. about half our staff is less than 12 months old. and i think we are struggling a lot with hiring managers and senior managers as opposed to more entry-level people. what tips and advice could you give me for how to recruit the best executives? >> number one, remember that your job is to light up the purpose of your company so brightly that it attracts the right executives. always understand why someone is joining you from a bigger company, and make sure that they're there for the right reasons. you know, you can't delegate this. you have to stay involved. number two is don't hire c-level executives in bulk if you can avoid it. each new executive will need the time to set their own pace and to really gel with the rest of the team. and if you hire a bunch of leaders at the same time, it's very, very hard for you to see what's working, what's not, and to give people the right support. >> we now have the top two tips

you need to know to help you grow your business. andy and jennifer are back with us. andy, i want to start with you. in the past, 11 years, you founded a company, watched it grow, took investment and now you sold it to walmart. so you have been through the whole cycle. so is what's one thing that you have learned? >> mine is super tactical. the most important thing you do is hiring. if you want to hire well, do two off list references. >> i'll give you two names of people to call. >> those aren't that helpful. they by definition are going to say something good. they are provided by the candidate. track down two people who aren't on that list. those people will tell you the truth about the candidate. >> how do you track down? are you hiring private investigators. >> you become the private investigator. you used linkedin. find out who they know, who you can get an intro to. it is like being an investigative reporter. it can be fun as you treat it as

fun. >> who do i know at that company so i can ask them someone. how many times have you called their references, thought they were great and then did this work and decided they were not right for the company. >> it was probably about half the time in the beginning. but still probably one in four or one in three times we walk away based on the off-list process. >> jennifer, also, such an incredible growth story. you started your company in 2006. you're in five countries armed the world. i have been watching you from the sidelines and so impressed. >> thank you. >> now, after this love note, let's hear something that you have learned. >> sure. my tip for business owners and any entrepreneur is to really work outside your comfort zone. that is one of the best ways to grow and evolve as a leader. there are four steps to venture outside your comfort zone. one is to really address what your biggest fears are and zone in on those insecurities that

make you uneasy. the more you know about your issues, the better you can tackle them. number two, really imagine the best and worst-case scenario. if you step out of your comfort zone and do this big project, chances are your down side is pretty limited. >> that is so true, by the way. it is much scarier. >> it's usually not so bad. >> right. >> and then to really visualize yourself thrive anything that moment. put yourself in that position and think that does it look like if i'm doing this well. and if you could get excited about it, mentally get really excited about it, it's more likely going to work out. and finally afterwards, reflect on the entire experience. not just your experience but of those around you. how did you all perform? did you get the support you needed? did you provide the support you needed to give? how did you grow, evolve as a leader through this whole process. and then just take that and move on and you'll be better for it. >> i appreciate that you gave us

stepsment a lot of people say get out of your comfort zone. but that's easy to say and hard to do. i'm glad you said do this, this and this. thank you for all of on your advice today. >> this week's your biz selfie is from martha boateng, with martha's virtual office. she specializes in web design. we see her there in her real office. pick up your smartphone and take a self issy of you in your business and send us an e-mail to yourbusiness @msnbc.com. tell us a little bit about your company. thank you for joining us today. we would love hearing from you. if you have any ideas or questions, accepted an e-mail to yourbusine

yourbusines yourbusiness@msnbc.com. also, if you like the show, head over to openforum.com/yourbusiness where we posted all of today's segments from our show, plus a lot more. and we put new conversations and content up on your social and digital media platforms as well. one more thing. we now have a podcast. i have been having so much fun with. been there. built that. please listen to it and i would love any ideas you have. it makes a big difference to me to hear from you, the audience. we look forward to seeing you next time. until next time, i'm jj ramberg. and remember we make your business our business. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light.

that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt at msnbc world headquarters in new york. hugh hewitt is off today. here's what's happening right now. angry and unglued. new nbc reporting about the state president trump was in when he made his decision on strict tariffs. the kushner question. did his business influence policies? the question special counsel wants to know