skepticism is come from? there are a lot of intelligent minds who are skeptical about this. >> the skepticism comes because north korea is not going to denuclearize. this is not going to be a one meeting where everything guess solved. so i think everyone is trying to lower the expectations, myself included. but we haven't made any progress with north korea for decades, with the traditional approach. so why not have the two leaders get together, maybe begin to start down a path that will be very long and very hard, but start down a path where you could find some way to manage what is essentially an incredibly difficult problem. >> but let's get that best case scenario from this president's perspective. an enduring series of discussions is one thing, but what do you think the best case is for the president coming out of this particular meeting? what will he have to claim? >> you know, this is -- part of the question is what north korea is willing to give up as an

interim step, to claim denuclearization. they've already said they'll stop testing missiles. part of what the president is going to have to decide is what are we willing to give up to get north korea down that path, do we provide them with a peace treaty or an end to sanctions, what are we willing to do? that's going to be up to the administration. >> but as you well know, kim jong-un, this regime has made deals before and gone back on their word. how likely is it that kim will give up his nuclear plans? >> one of the things that's happened over the decades with north korea is that we've had a couple of agreements, they've all fallen apart due to mutual distrust. so parts of the will be step by step. the answer is pretty clear, right? you take a small step, you see if you can verify it. if they will follow their word, we will take a step. so, you know, it's a new leader. kim is a young leader. we'll see what happens.

>> look, i know that you said you weren't all that worried about how it went down, but for those who don't know, i do want to point out what "the wall street journal" says which is that mr. trump interrupted south korean officials as they analyzed the offer from kim saying, okay, okay, i'll do it. the south korean officials looked at each other as if in disbelief. "tell him yes," the president said. you're smiling. interpret this. >> i don't think anyone in the moon administration in south korea thought that trump -- i don't think anyone thought that trump was going to say, sure, sure, i'll do it. >> including people in his own administration. >> yes. everybody thought that this was going to be an end result of potentially years of negotiations. and so i think the south koreans are -- were as stunned as anyone else. the thing i want to point out is i think in many ways the north koreans have methodically planned this diplomacy over the last year or so, first at the

pyeongchang olympics, then the agreement to a summit between north and south korean leaders which in itself is huge, and then the offer to meet. so i think that the steps were there. but i don't think anyone thought that the u.s. was going to move forward that quickly. so of course it's an incredible shock. but given that this president said he would be willing to have a hamburger with kim a couple of years ago, it's not out of the blue that he thinks his own personal style is one that could make a difference. we'll have to see. >> the fact that no u.s. president has been able to strike a deal with north korea, you think it's fair to say that this does at least benefit mr. trump because he's seen as trying to fix this relationship now rather than being unable to close a deal at the end of this particular meeting, perhaps in may? >> again, yeah, i mean, i don't want to sound too optimistic about anything, but nothing else has worked. it's just a meeting. i know that this is a huge carrot for the north koreans,

they've already achieved a meeting with the united states, that's massive. so what are they going to do in order to keep this relationship going? can trump and kim get along? >> david, i want to pick up on that, this huge carrot. there are many questions about whether the president is being played by kim jong-un. what do you think, is that possible? >> you know, it's easy to say that we should never have a meeting. one thing that i point out consistently is that the u.s. and the soviet union met for decades consistently precisely to manage the problem. the idea that we wouldn't talk to north korea and wouldn't pursue diplomacy and somehow expect the problem to manage itself i think is also similarly nai naive. i don't see any problem with trying to get together and talk to the north koreans. >> the president is tweeting today that he spoke to chinese president xi jinping about the summit and expects china to be helpful. can we expect china to contribute tips on how to handle kim? >> the chinese have consistently

said that sanctions and pressure is only a path back to negotiations. so they're clearly supportive of all these kinds of steps that are going on right now. my sense is they're going to be trying to find ways to be as helpful as possible, because this is -- this is the type of process that they've consistently said they wanted to see. >> are you confident that donald trump would go into this meeting as prepared as he needs to be, given that fact that we're missing a bunch of diplomats that we should have and people within the state department themselves, we don't have an ambassador to south korea at this point, i mean, there's a lot of holes there. >> yeah, there is, right? so number one, we really need more of the diplomatic staff. we don't have an ambassador, we don't have a state department staff. my sense is if this meeting occurs, and it's still a 50% chance that it occurs, if they can have atmospherics and then lead negotiations to a later stage, it's probably much more

successful than trying to hammer out any kind of a real deal. so i would set expectations low. but if you can have a meeting where both sides come away saying that was a good meeting, it might set the stage for actual real negotiations later on. >> a very optimistic david kang. and we like hearing that, it's all good, from the chair of usc's green studies. thank you so much, good to see you. >> my pleasure. stormy, stormy, stormy. we hear so much about the porn star. what we haven't heard is about her life and how she met the president. answers on that, next. thank you. ♪ imagine if the things you bought every day... earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. with the united mileageplus explorer card, you'll get a free checked bag. two united club passes. priority boarding. and earn fifty thousand bonus miles after you spend three thousand dollars on purchases in the first three months from account opening

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some new information today about the alleged hush money paid to porn star stormy daniels who says she had a sexual relationship with the relationship. in a new interview, michael cohen says he used his home equity line of credit to pay the $130,000 to stormy daniels. joining me now, frances sellers. frances, the trump team continually denies the affair, that's for the record. >> absolutely. >> who is stormy daniels? where did she come from, how did she meet the president? >> this is a fascinating issue. we'll learn more and more about stormy who is part of this elaborate pr move her lawyer is making. we're seeing more of her. she made a podcast this week, an

hour-long podcast, and gave an interview to "rolling stone." he tweeted a photograph of her with anderson cooper earlier this week, suggesting she would be on "60 minutes" at some point. the story we've learned about was a porn star who is very much a take-control person in the porn industry. she didn't only act in movies, she became a director, she wrote her own movies. there is an annual show known as the oscars of porn which happens every january in las vegas. she's won consistent awards for being out there and a very take-control sort of person. one can only imagine signing a hush agreement must have been very frustrating and very out of character for her. >> so she did get paid $130,000 of what she's calling this hush money. why is this story in the public domain right now? i mean, when you're paid to keep quiet, you keep quiet. >> hush money is called hush money for a reason, and it's very effective in keeping people

quiet. professors will sometimes refer to the interrorum effect these agreements have, meaning being frightened in court. these have been effective in keeping people quiet. the story began to like an in early january when "the wall street journal" published a story about it. since then we've had a series of revelations. initially stormy daniels was appearing after the state of the union address rather coyly on "jimmy kimmel" trying to be evasive, as measuuch as she cou. now she has a new aggressive lawyer who has sued the president. there are many reasons why the suit may not reach trial. it's being brought in state

court and a similar case has been brought in state court in new york and we still don't know if that will go to trial. but in the meantime, he's surfacing documents, surfacing issues, and i think he had something like 100 media requests after he filed this suit on tuesday, which pushes the issue forward he really seems to be trying to take control of the narrative here. >> i just have to say, watching stormy on jimmy kimmel that night, the way she would say "did i" -- >> she was being coy andy va eve and leading people on. you don't see her giving interviews straight away to mainstream media. a controlled release of information. >> you talk about the attorney being out there and talking about offers. here is what he said today about some of the offers his client is getting. let's take a listen to that. >> has anyone offered to pony up the million dollars to protect her and say, here, i'm good for it, go tell your story?

>> at least ten individuals in the last three days alone. >> are any of them larry flynn? >> no, not that i know of. >> is she contemplating taking any of those ten offers? >> no. >> that was a little confusing, the syncing up there, but you got it. the reaction to that is what, frances, and why does he feel he have the advantage? >> it's interesting, because what more does she have to tell? she gave an elaborate, very long interview in may 2011 to "in touch" magazine which didn't get published until this year. what more does stormy have to say? it's a very interesting question. what i think is -- >> the fact that she did give that interview back in 2011 which predates all of this around the president running and someone wanting to pay hush money, the president running, during the campaign. doesn't that negate all of this? because that story is out there. she is on record already.

>> that story is out there, yes. of course, you know, it came out after "the wall street journal" and it's not something she's spoken about personally since. so she is still bound by the hush agreement, right? that's what we're seeing, and it's being challenged. but as i said, it may never make it to court. there's a case, summer zevoffs, she brought a defamation suit against the president, and that has been challenged because it was brought in state court just as this case is being brought in state court. so these issues of presidential immunity could welcome up with this current case. in the meantime, avenetti is getting at much information out as he wants to and he seems to be taking control of the narrative for stormy now. >> how much is stormy benefiting from all of this? she's out there, she's touring, she's appearing place after place.

it certainly has boosted her visibility in the world that wouldn't be familiar with the porn world. is she making more money? >> the measure of the porn industry is any exposure is good exposure, which is something i heard when i went to their annual convention. >> oh, my. >> a website called pornhub is suggesting that her name is getting more hits. an online group keeps their numbers private. a number of clubs where she performs tells me they're paying her more than they used to, but i don't have exact numbers. for stormy daniels, exposure is good, having your name out there is a good thing. >> do you have any idea how this all ends? >> no. but i do have a very good idea that it willab i lo ab be a lon. i don't think we'll see it end quickly. >> thank you very much, good to talk with you. >> thank you very much.

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mcmaster. he's a valued member of the president's team and an important parts of the process. >> white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders there on reports of another potential staff shake-up in the white house. those comments coming as a new article from "vanity fair" says that chief of staff john kelly, jared kushner, ivanka trump, are all on the way out. democratic strategist -- always good to speak with you both of you. basil, first, to you, do you think a clean reset could be a good thing at the white house? >> it depends on who he brings in. when i talk to young people out there and trying to get them involved in public service, they give me the side-eye, they can't understand why someone would want to put themselves in the middle of all this type of turmoil. i have to tell them that this is highly unusual. a reset is good, but who is actually going to be taking

these jobs? and that should be a huge concern for all of us because if there aren't many people willing to take jobs that are advising the president of the united states, that means that he digs in deeper, he has fewer voices to hear from. and that's just bad for governance. if they do some due diligence and actually go and find really talented people that care about the work, it could be a good thing. >> do you think people want to work in this white house? it's suggested earlier in this broadcast that that is part of the problem. >> it's a huge problem. that's why it goes back to the point about how do you recruit people to tell them and suggest that they should be involved in public service and serving their country if you don't have a leader that is investing in you and that maintains a high morale in the office, that's a problem. >> kerry, basil made the point and sources are telling "vanity fair" that the president is just

tired of being reined in, that he's frustrated at them telling him what to do. isn't that their job, though, to a certain extent, especially chief of staff john kelly? >> so trump won because he was trump, and he knew his biggest asset was to be trump. i think in terms of kelly, if the reports are true, and we don't know the full details, but if kelly is on the way out, he did show a tremendous lack of judgment as it relates to the rob porter issue which had nothing to do with the president. it might make sense if he is out the door, that means he's made some changes as it relates to security clearance, i give him credit for that. i'm very disappointed, basil is my friend but i'm disappointed that he would perpetuate the cynicism toward public service, because the president needs good people around him. and sadly, so many voices in the media and harvard did a study looking at media coverage of this president, over 90% negative, way more negative than any of his predecessors.

if you're manifesting and you speak negatively about the president, you're perpetuating negativity. you need to look toward the future and say, maybe i don't agree with everything this president says or does but i am going to serve my country and i'm not going to let the voices in the media drown out the truth that this country needs good people. >> i'm a firm believer in public service, i spent my career engaged in it. but it's also my right and responsibility to call out the president when i think he's doing -- when i think he's erroneous. i've made those comments even about president obama from time to time, not nearly as much about this president. it's my right to do that even as a public servant. when you look at the work that needs to get done in terms of governance, we're talking about north korea today. consider the fact that the u.s. envoy for north korea has retired. a lot of folks in the state department are leaving their posts at a time when diplomacy is needed now more than ever.

that should be the concern for all of us. again, we all value public service but it is really important that we go out of our way to look for people who desire to be public servants. >> which this president does. you mentioned korea. this president had a bipartisan success by being able to dialogue with the north koreans that no president previously has done. the main story with that is china. president trump has shown leadership in bringing china to the table and enforcing those sanctions against the north koreans. bill clinton couldn't do it, george bush couldn't do it, barack obama couldn't do it. president trump is doing it. he needs great people to continue his mission of putting americans first, including you, basil, including you, alex, that's what the goal of m.a.g.a. is. >> thank you. let's talk about jared and ivanka's positions in the white

house. people are questioning the veracity of this reporting, that people are cautioni ining them hang on as long as possible so as not to make it appear that kelly railroaded them out of the west wing. how do you interpret that, basil? do you think those two will go soon? >> i think they have to. i don't think they should have had jobs in the first place. somebody referred to jared as the secretary of everything. i think that the fact that the president seems to rely on fewer and fewer voices over time is concerning. the fact that jared and ivanka, who clearly have a strong relationship with him, but don't necessarily need to be advising him on matters of national security or cutting deals with foreign leaders across the country with the presumption that they may be enriching themselves. that's what's sort of out there and because no one has seemed to be able to disabuse the american public of that, i do think other

people need to step in and shore up the trust that we should have in this white house. >> and karen, i'll ask you to answer the same question, should they leave, do you think they will leave? maybe my director, will, can put up a poll that shows the american public has an increasingly unfavorable view of both of them. >> i'm not going to say whether they should or shouldn't go, they'll make the decision that's best for themselves, their family and the country as well. some friends of mine who are working on the campaign out of trump tower think they would be a tremendous asset to the campaign. if they remain in d.c., i know they'll continue to do important work there. i as a woman admire what ivanka has been doing to advance women in s.t.e.m., women in entrepreneurship. i think she's doing a great job. with regards to jared, again, to the media speculation around for example his loans, no one has shown that those loans were different in terms of the market loan rates that he received relative to other loans.

and again, loans are different than what hillary clinton received in terms of cash payments, straight up cash, to the clinton foundation. >> where did that come from? >> we just went way off. >> i'm talking about the double standard of how people talk about jared versus the clintons. >> okay. >> it's a problem. >> okay. carrie and basil, good to see you both as always, i love the conversation. thank you very much. the porn star, the $130,000 payment, and the lengths an attorney for president trump went to give it to her, new interpretation and legal analysis in our next hour.