used to say how easy it is to be presidential. you would be so bored because i could stand up -- right? >> you're one of us! >> i could stand up. i'm very presidential. ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here tonight. rick saccone will be a great, great congressman. he will help me very much. and then you go, god bless you and god bless the united states of america. thank you very much. [ laughter ]. >> that's easy. see, that's easy. that's much easier than doing what i have to do. >> yeah. i don't know. i don't know.

matt, maybe after you talk to bob mueller you won't think it's quite so easy. that's president trump stumping for a candidate that he reportedly trashes in private. he's doubling down on everything. on all of these head-spinning policy decisions, he's doubling down on his attacks against the media. he's doubling down on his attacks against hillary clinton. he's doubling down on his inflated margins of victory in 2016. in short, just another day at the office. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, march 12th. with us, we have got veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. noah rothman, columnist and associated editor for the washington post, david ignatius. also nbc news national political reporter heidi prison bella will be with us shortly and mika is out. she is feeling a bit under the weather. you know, there's so much to

talk about, but david ignatius, i think the take away from this speech is that there was donald trump's worst instincts coming out, the very things that concern me the most that i don't think concern a lot of people in middle america. but it's a trashing of constitutional norms. in this speech specifically, you had him attacking a member of the media by name. encouraging the audience to boo that member of the media. and then you had him praising dictators and actually discouraging this crowd that he just encouraged to boo a member of the free press, discouraging them from booing kim jong-un. it was vintage donald trump. >> joe, i thought he was almost trashing the traditional role of president in that little clip that we saw, making fun of the orderly conduct of power, the

dignity and behavior we associate with the president of the united states, likening that to atomton marching around like a penguin. no, with donald trump you have something different. you sited some of the points. you have inflammatory kind of rabble rousing we used to say speeches. you have attacks on the media which i think should really worry people. he's direct, off-color attacks on members of the media. and you have a president who has decided the things that people criticize that are seen as destabilizing, as upsetting the system are the things that he prizes. that's what he wants to do. you're right. he is doubling down. he's saying this is the kind of president that i want to be. we'll see if he loses this race tomorrow in pennsylvania and --

we sure saw it in this speech. >> we certainly did. and that's what the president was in western pennsylvania for. there's a special election tomorrow in pennsylvania 18. it is a seat just in case you haven't kept up with it that the republicans always win by 15 the 20 points. donald trump won it by almost 20 points just a year ago, a year and a half ago. and the last republican to run, i believe he was unopposed but usually wins by 20 percentage points. paint this district red all the time, but right now once again we have a republican who should easily be coasting to victory in big trouble. here is more from the president's rally for rick saccone. >> president xi, president for life. i was joking and i said, huh, president for life, that sounds good. maybe we're going to have to try that. president for life. but i'm joking.

but i'm joking. south korea came to my office after having gone to north korea and seeing kim jong-un. no, it's very positive. no. after the meeting you may do that, but now we have to be very nice because let's see what happens. that washington, d.c., got a lot of evil there, but we're getting it out. step by step. lot of evil. lot of bad people. lot of bad people. lot of fake media. look at them. lot of fake media. fake, fake media. it's 1999. i'm on "meet the press," a show now headed by sleepy eyes chuck todd. he's a sleeping son of a bitch. i'll tell you. >> you know he likes to put names on people. he did that through the entire

presidential election, including all the republicans that he beat. so, these are campaign rallyishes. this is something at a campaign rally and the president likes making funny names. >> if we're to dismiss everything he says at a campaign rally, as i think you're trying to imply, then are you saying we should cover these things? >> you're putting words in my mouth. i wasn't in any way saying you should dismiss that whatsoever and you should obviously carry them because these are important moments for the president and this is news. what i'm trying to say is, i'm focussed on the policies. >> well, you know, the president likes funny names. mike barnacle, he actually talked about the fake media. he got people booing. the booing is getting stronger by the day when ever he goes out there and whips up like it's a mussolini rally. yes, that's what i said.

there is certainly nothing american about what donald trump did in pennsylvania when he tries to turn an entire audience, whether it's against katy tur or chuck todd and this weekend he went after maggie haberman. when you're in rallies like that and you whip your supporters into a frenzy, there are real life consequences to that. threats follow, often death threats. and that is actually, mike, unfortunately that's exactly what he wants. >> well, joe, i mean, his constant attacks over many, many months and days, including many, many months and days as president of the united states they've worked. they've had an impact on this country. they've had an impact on people. they've changed the way people think about the news that they read or the news that they see. that's one thing that's certainly happened. but in that clip that we just showed he was talking about washington, d.c. and he said there's lots of evil

in washington, d.c. lots of bad people. and president of the united states has injected successfully a slow poison into the culture of this country. i don't know what the impact is going to be years down the road, but i do know that one of the things we tuought to be worried about is the damage that he's already done to the presidency. and we should be worried about how lasting is it and can it be repaired. >> yeah. when he said, you know, i could be presidential just look at me be presidential sort of mocking, as david said, presidential behavior. he's saying impulse control is easy. i would love to do that. i would love to see impulse control just to demonstrate you're capable of it. he's in pennsylvania now speaking to this audience because of his lack of impulse control. the reason this is a competitive race and likely to see some democratic victories in november is because of donald trump. it's not because of the economy. the economy is humming.

it's got room to run. it's not because of foreign policy. there's some troubles abroad, but we don't have a lot of bodies coming home of american soldiers, that's why people vote on a foreign policy election. this is a values election. this is a referendum on donald trump and his behavior. behavior like that is precisely why voters will go to the polls to register their dissatisfaction with this president. >> i sat there looking at the rally, looking at clips of the rally and was thinking the same thing that again donald trump always rightfully accuses the media of being in a bubble. but nobody is in a bigger bubble than donald trump because he goes to these rallies where he finds people who like him and he speaks to that 33%. but everything he did in that speech offended, educated suburban voters in the pittsburgh suburbs that will be voting in this election. a lot of what he did offended a

lot of women as he does everyone of the speeches offends a lot of women. there was a new york times article yesterday talking about how trump support is falling among evangelical women, significantly, 13% over a short time period. all of the rabble rousing that david was talking about. noah, it gets him big cheers. he used to like to brag that he was, you know, the biggest show on earth that didn't carry around a guitar or play a piano, often likening himself to elton john in these venues, and he's getting that feedback, but you're exactly right. he is the one that is helping elect people like conor lamb or keeping races close in pennsylvania '18 that republicans should have locked up weeks ago. >> and you mentioned the coalition movement, which is really key here.

he's definitely courting this white-working class base that help prod pel him to victory in 2016, but the reciprocal side of that is that college educated voters, women, et cetera, in the suburbs are moving away from republicans, moving away from donald trump. this is only going to exacerbate that tension. it's one of those things that you would like to see republicans who are interested in electoral victories say, look, this is a bad deal. we are still enthralled to this 2016 myth about donald trump's coalition because nobody saw it coming. after november, if they really get hit at the polls hard, that 33, 38% whatever it is going to look more like 38% and it's not going to be the tiger that we make it out to be. >> thank you so much for using the word most relevant about this myth. there has been this myth around donald trump since he got elected in november. and the myth has grown that somehow everything that he did

worked perfectly. and somehow that's going to work in the future. i've said it 1,000 times. it happened in 2016. it was a fluke. even donald trump himself told me one time he could have had the election 20 times and that is the one day he would have won. and it's insane. he's focussed on one demographic, white, working-class voters. he's offending a lot of other demographics he needs to win elections and he is doing exactly the opposite of what we were criticizing hillary clinton of doing last fall in the home stretch where she was ignoring white working class voters. i mean, you've got to have the entire coalition. and, if you're helping white working class voters but you're losing college educated republicans, you're losing republican women, you're

starting to lose republican evangelicals, you certainly won't have them vote for hillary clinton over you but you will keep them home in mid-term elections, then you really are sealing your own fate. let's go right now to mt. lebanon, pennsylvania, and go to von hilliard. there's so much to talk about. they are reporting this morning that donald trump is trashing actually rick saccone the republican candidate he went out to support. if donald trump is trashing rick saccone, he would not be alone. it appears the entire republican party in washington, d.c. seems to be doing the same thing. set it up for us one day out and what actually is a very significant election. >> joe, it's a significant election, right, because if this is really the plus 20 trump state that mccain won, mitt romney won and you're potentially not only losing democratic voters that voted for

donald trump but also those republican voters that you were talking about, i'm going to play you a little bit of sound with three of those republicans. >> you just met conor lamb. you usually vote republican. >> usually. >> how did this interaction go? >> it went pretty well. he is pretty dedicated, passionate. it was certainly nice to meet him. >> would you vote democrat on tuesday? >> i would. i would. >> i'm voting for conor lamb. >> the democrat? >> the democrat, yes. and really i don't think the labels are all that important. you vote for the best man. >> he's the real deal. straight as an arrow. and he is every mother's dream. i'm totally honest. really. >> do you usually vote democrat? >> nope, i don't. >> you have seen two different type of campaigns here. we were with conor lamb with coal miners, couple steel

workers on friday night. he's been on the trail. there's an energy. we were with him in carnegie, canvassers coming in off the street they had not been contacted by the campaign seeing how they could help. compare that to rick saccone, outside of the rally on saturday night, he had no events on saturday, he had no events on saturday. on friday he had two events. the first one had eight people come, the second had 15 people come. this is the paul ryan-backed super pac. i talked with their executive director yesterday. this is a super pac that's put in twice the amount of money into this district here. they have paid staffers on the ground that have been knocking doors compare that to the rick saccone campaign not put up much of an operation, hasn't spent a million dollars on the air waves here and we heard this race should be a warning to all republicans here in the future that a seat like this, plus 20

trump is ultimately if you don't have better candidates and don't have better campaigns any seat in november is vulnerable. >> all right, vaughn. thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. and david ignatius, i wanted to follow up on what vaughn had said going around talking to those people. you know what so many people in the media and politics forget is how non-ideological most americans are. in that audience, where conor lamb was speaking, so many people in that audience voted for reagan twice, voted for clinton twice, voted for george w. bush twice, voted for barack obama twice and voted for donald trump last fall. >> you could just hear in the voices that were interviewed in that piece people thinking, i want to do what's right for the country. that woman said conor lamb is every mother's favorite son. she's saying this is somebody that i trust. that kind of basic citizen

instinct. i want to pick somebody who will be good for the country, who i feel comfortable with. when that predominates, our politics work. we'll see tomorrow. it's been important to note that conor lamb may succeed on issues like trade. he's saying identical things to what donald trump is saying. he's a national security democrat. he's sounding more traditionally. sort of reminds me of a scoop jackson democrat, 20 or 30 years ago. but if that message works in this race, i think you're going to see a lot of republicans get nervous. but again, my take away from this whole interview was, hear voters trying to do what is it zens need to do to make the democracy work. look at the candidates, make a choice about who do i trust? >> and so often we see this where if the white house is going in the wrong direction, voters two years later always

correct them. and for republicans, my gosh, if democrats were to win tomorrow in an unlikely scenario, but looking more likely by the day, then the democratic party is going to have big wins in western pennsylvania where they shouldn't have won, a big win in alabama, and a huge win all across the state of virginia. again, another state that nobody would have expected the type of victories that they had last fall. so any way, still ahead on "morning joe" we now know that the president's current trump organization e-mail to help arrange that six-figure paycheck to a former porn star to try to keep her quiet weeks before the election. we have got new details on that front. and also, speaking of attorneys, the president's other legal team is reportedly trying to speed up the mueller probe with certain catches. we're going to explain what they're doing straight ahead.

but first, here is bill karins. he's got a check on the forecast. bill, my gosh, third week in a row. >> i know. >> we're going to get slammed again hard with another big snowstorm in the northeast. >> yeah. this is a new england special. especially the boston area could get possibly up to a foot of snow in some areas. cape cod could have a blizzard-like conditions tomorrow during the morning and into the afternoon. right now it's snowing in northern alabama. middle of march, that doesn't happen very often. snowing in nashville and lexington throughout the morning and heading through the carolinas and virginia. raleigh could pick up two inches of knsnow later this afternoon. so then the storm comes over the carolinas off the coast becomes a nor'easter. third one in two weeks. by the time we get to monday evening, still a little bit of snow there in north carolina. this is as we go through the night snow blossoms. you'll wake up to snow-covered ground and roads in all areas of new england. it's plenty cold enough. this is mostly an all-snow event

and it will be snowing hard. the morning commute tomorrow, i-95 back across 84 the mass pike into boston and spreads north wards during the day. the winds will be their strongest as we go through the morning. as far as the snowfall amounts will go, not a huge ordeal in new york city, albany not that big of a deal. hartford to providence, somebody will end up with a foot, foot and a half of snow out of this. ski country will be great, looking through april in this year. we'll have more on the storm as we go throughout the day today and of course tomorrow morning the latest with all the travel concerns we'll have. glancing blow, d.c., philadelphia, new york doesn't look like a huge ordeal. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. i'm a concrete mason. i had severe fatigue, went to a doctor. became diagnosed with hodgkin's lymphoma. i had to put my trust in somebody. we recommended chemotherapy,

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and i believe that. i believe that. i really do. i think they want to do something. i think they want to make peace. i think it's time. and i think we've shown great strength. i think that's also important. right? and i must tell you, president xi of china has really helped us a lot. they've really helped us. and they've been very good. they could have done more, but that's okay. i say to them, you've been great. you could do more, but they've done a lot. they've done more. china has done more for us than they have ever done for any other president or ever done for this country. and i respect that. because we go from -- a lot of people thought we were going to war. all of a sudden they come in and say we're going to have a meeting and there's no more missiles going off and they want to denuclearize. nobody heard that. nobody thought -- but they said they want to -- they are thinking about that. who knows what's going to happen. hey, who knows. if it happens, it doesn't

happen. i may leave fast. we may make the greatest deal for all these countries and the world. frankly north korea, that's what i hope happens. welcome back to "morning joe." david ignatius, not exactly sure where to start there. the president's on again/off again love affair with china continues. crediting china with what's happening with the man he used to call rocket man. what's your take away? >> well, i think president trump summed it up when he said who knows what's going to happen. he is rolling the dice. i think any sensible person should root for diplomacy. this visit with kim jong-un has not been well prepared. there are a lot of question marks. there are a lot of uncertainties. there are dangers in the aftermath, but it's hard to argue that stepping toward diplomacy, toward a face to face meeting the first ever between an american president and north korean leader is a positive

development. what i hear foreign policy experts say, joe, as they look at this, is president trump has to avoid making the mistakes he's made in other areas of foreign policy. he needs to stay close to allies. in this case, that means south korea, japan in particular. he needs to avoid being too disruptive. he's so proud of how he overturned the tables. heard him bragging about that earlier in the campaign speech. needs to be careful about that. finally he needs to be careful in this diplomacy that he doesn't back himself into a corner where in the aftermath of a failed negotiation has no alternative but the use of military force in a way that would not help the united states or its allies. root for diplomacy, but let's encourage a more disciplined policy process that avoids mistakes he's made in other areas. >> so from north korea to china, again, we had the president trashing china through the

entire campaign. now he seems to be trying to figure out exactly how to embrace china. it seems that he again constant ly saluting power. i don't know if you saw it, couple weeks ago there was an article in the atlantic the title why china loves trump. yes, part of that is because -- but also the article fascinating neatly enough says that chinese leaders want to avoid criticizing him because they actually think this is a guy they can work with and more jarring at least for me as i was reading the article the chinese people seem to have a real affinity for this strong -- who they see as an american who is not being politically correct and who has all the tendencies of a chinese strong man. >> trump has been part of this process of validating the

leadership of president xi jinping who has, as trump sort of i think enthusiastically has become the president for life in china, there may be a touch of envy in trump. in the u.s./china relationship something quite interesting happened with trump's announcement he'll meet with kim jong-un. he cut china out of deal. the chinese are saying nice things, they're being supportive. but if you read the chinese press the last few days you get a real sense of anxiety that the u.s. and north korea are going to do this separately. and that china is in -- this is one of china's key long-term allies, north korea. suddenly china is out of that game. i actually think that's one of the benefits of what's happened is there a try aingelation effect when nixon went to china, it was tough for the russians. they were cut out of that deal.

as trump goes to kim jong-un to pyongyang, maybe there's a way in which china is cut out of that and that has a benefit. but, yes, in general the chinese love donald trump. >> very strange that donald trump again saluting dictators while attacking democratically elected allies as well as members of america's free press. coming up, we may just have the 2018 version of the sarah palin campaign.

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after that photo, when did president trump see stormy daniels? did you have a text, e-mail? >> i don't have anything else to add. >> you said from the podium, you acknowledge that the president -- to follow up on april's question -- knows about the arbitration involving stormy daniels. does he remember speaking about his lawyer with that? does he remember meeting daniels? >> i don't have anything else to add. i've addressed this extensively. >> did the president approve the payment that his personal lawyer

made to stormy daniels? >> not that i'm aware of, but michael cohen, the attorney in question, has addressed this. the white house has addressed sarah addressed it earlier this week and i have nothing further to add. >> did the president reimburse michael cohen for making that payment? >> michael cohen has addressed this matter extensively. >> nbc news has learned that trump lawyer michael cohen used his trump organization e-mail just 13 days before the election to discuss paying daniels $130,000 of what cohen says was his money. cohen explained to abc that he used his trump company e-mail for both personal and business matters and that the funds were transferred from his home equity line. joining us now nbc news national political reporter heidi pisbeli, media commenter new york times magazine jim, law professor at george washington university, jonathan turlly, new york times reporter michael

schmidt. jim, let's start with you based upon a couple of those clips about this interview that's already taking place, 16 minutes. is it going to go on or not? >> well, 60 minutes says it has no plans to stop. there's speculation yesterday that maybe cohen the president's lawyer would file some sort of injunction. that would be like a first amendment class of the highest order. so at this point, all plans -- all systems are go. >> jonathan, could you measure grade please michael cohen's aptitude as a lawyer for sending out these e-mails on trump organization e-mail? >> well, first of all, the use of the e-mail is probably the least of his problems. i mean, the most challenging client that michael cohen may have will be himself. there's a very good chance he'll be subject, in my view, to some form of review in terms of his conduct in this matter. he tripped wires all over the place. i mean, if you go through -- i have a column out today in "usa

today" going through just five or six of the ethical issues that are quite problematic in terms of what he did. everything from using personal funds to the question of whether his client knew about this agreement to whether the client consented. there's even questions about his shopping a book when he's still doing representational issues for the client. >> and michael schmidt, as they approach legal armageddon here, how many names are on the door of the law firm representing trump? who is it? what's going on here? >> well, the president still has his personal lawyers in john dowd and jay seculo. the question is about ty cobb's role. they brought him in to deal with the mueller investigation. the president engaged in discussions with a long-time lawyer emmitt flood.

he represented clinton during impeachment and represented vice president cheney years later and has deep experience in washington and would be interested in representing the president if things were to sort of intensify and become different here. you have to remember about ty cobb, he was in charge of the document production to mueller. he was going through all of the e-mails, the notes, those sort of things, getting them to the special counsel's office, the president's lawyers have insisted that they've not exerted privilege on any of those documents. this would be a new phase. the production is over and there's a new phase that the president would go into with the investigation and that's where flood would take the lead. >> michael, this is not a few phase, but the president of the united states denounced the report in the times and calmed out maggie haberman, new york times spectacular reporter, as are you, michael, called her out by name as this is wrong. this just is not wrong. this is wrong.

>> obviously the president will say whatever he wants to say when ever he doesn't like a story. he didn't like the fact that this had come out. he went after maggie in an unfortunate way. she's the best that we have. i think he knows that. >> so heidi, it's up to you now to try to unpack all this mess for us and explain a bit according to your sources. because when you tie this bundle together, and it's a bundle that's wrapped each and every day it seems out of the white house, but you have reports that the president of the united states now feels completely unshackled from john kelly, from anything or anyone in the white house who would try to monitor his conduct and his behavior and that he is literally a man alone operating on foreign policy and maybe even on legal policy. >> well, the question now is how much of this is also driven by the fact that like michael reported, this investigation may be entering a new phase. this white house all along --

and the president himself even according to our reporting -- seemed to think and actually believed that this investigation may be wrapping up at the end of the year. well, that didn't happen. and now not only is it not wrapping up but the new information that's coming out for example about this meeting suggested there's a very strong thread there in terms of the money, but then also in terms of the collusion aspect. and now that you see you have more and more witnesses potentially cooperating with this white house, how much of the president's temperament is being driven and his decision making, for example, on these tariffs, for example, on the north korea meeting by a sense of panic potentially in this white house to take the headlines away from russia, to take the headlines away from all of these external stories like stormy daniels. joe talked a lot about that the other day about potentially the timing of the president trying

to shift attention from these external controversies that are swirling around him. >> so, this scandal sounds like something should really resonate. the sentences the president's personal attorney used his personal funds to cover up the affair months after the president's child was born with a pornographic industry. what is it that this white house fears will result from this investigation into this affair with this porn star because we do hear that they're getting very nervous inside the white house but it's more than just the narrative is getting away from them, right? >> by the way, the narrative is getting away from them. it's almost like the nor'easters that keep bashing the east coast. it flairs up and flairs up. the problem or concern doesn't seem to be so much about the politics of this story as it is about the legalities.

once you're into a court situation and stormy daniels is bringing a lawsuit, then you get exposure. who knew what when are the key questions that go into her suit. so she's trying to get out of her suit. michael cohen saying donald trump didn't have anything to do with the inking of this deal, the trump organization didn't, the campaign didn't. well, then is she bound by it? the flip side is if she is bound by it, maybe did he know more than cohen is letting on. it exposes a lot about the money. the real issue is where did the money come from, what tract did it take? what did the president know about it? was it coordinated. then you get coordinated independent expenditures on the campaign. >> what do you think is the worst case scenario? >> that michael cohen ends up having to be deposed about this and opens up new fronts on the campaign finance side. was stormy daniels paid off to be quiet about an affair to benefit the president's campaign. >> from the sounds of it just

listening to jim here, any encounter between bob mueller, his people, and the president of the united states if one were to occur? it seemingly could last for weeks. but let's start with the fact that there's been reports that the white house is trying to make out -- work out a deal where mueller would meet and sit with trump. trump would sit with mueller, but only for a specific period of time and they would want to have a commitment that the investigation would be closed shortly after that meeting. the odds of that happening? >> well, the last part is the problem. in fairness to the white house, previous negotiations with presidents have focussed on that time frame. to say you've got a set amount of time, you have to get everything done in that period. i really don't see how the special counsel could agree to even informally to wrap up an investigation as a condition for this type of sit-down.

part of the problem for the white house is this is coming a bit late. you know, really the mueller matter has metastasized. if you had done this early, he could have done the interview on the collusion and obstruction issues, had a relatively limited and confined interview. i think you could prepare trump for that. i've prepared clients for depositions that were far more challenging and you can certainly keep him between the navigational beacons. now you have this sort of metastasis. it's now going into stormy daniels, to the issue of the stormy daniels payment, the issues of the meetings with the russians. the scope of the potential interview is now much broader. now, mueller could agree to say, look, i'm willing to sit down with you on the subjects that you lay out. but it's very doubtful that he would limit himself to those subjects. one possibly would be the white house would say, how about if we

do this? we'll talk to you on the original purposes of the investigation, collusion and obstruction and nothing more. mueller could cut that deal but it would not limit mueller to come back later and say i need to sit down with you and talk about these other issues. >> michael, there's the lead for this block, the mueller matter has metastasized. now, according to your sources in the white house, what's the level of panic or chaos within the white house that the mueller matter metastasizing has added to? >> well, the president's aides and associates went out of their way this weekend to make it clear that the idea of bringing in a new lawyer is not showing that there is any more concern that they have about the special counsel's investigation. they think it's still in the same place. remember, these are the folks that thought it would be over by the end of last year and still exists today. but they've been insisting that this is not a change in posture

whatever. the thing that i wonder about is that the president has long discussed the fact that if mueller was looking into finance issues outside of the russia matter, that that would be a red line. that that would be something that he would say that mueller should not do. and it's clear from some of this reporting about money that came from the gulf states that mueller is looking at issues that may be beyond russia. i would be very interested to know what the president really thinks about that and how closely they're looking at it and how concerned they are. >> well, it could be that donald trump's redline over the mueller investigation is similar to barack obama's red line in syria. it will be crossed. jonath jonathan, thanks all. we appreciate it. now, this was the tease you probably didn't hear a minute ago when joe's camera froze up, but because the guys who write part of this program liked it so much they wanted to make sure we got it in again. so, what may be the 2018 version of the sarah pailen, katie kouric interview, only this time the players are education

secretary betsy devos and leslie stall. there you go. "morning joe" will be right back.

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>> dr. ben carson, what's wrong? >> all of it. all of it is wrong. >> a drama so unnerving you can't look away. >> this whole thing with the president having sex with a porn star, it just didn't happen. >> sarah, sarah! >> the number-one drama in america. >> united arab emirates? this is jared kushner. can i borrow $800 million. >> nbc presents "this is u.s. "the show critics are calling "like "this is us" but without the parts that feel good." >> baby, i'm scared. >> it's okay. you're going to make a great

surgeon general. >> no, i run the department of housing and urban development. >> that's hilarious. >> it is hilarious. that was also "snl's" taken to drama playing out on prime time and in the oval office. speaking of the administration's challenges, education secretary b betsy devos was featured on "60 minutes" where she struggled to explain her mission. >> why take money away from that school that's not working to bring them up to a level where that school is working. >> well, we should be funding and investing in students not in school -- school buildings, not in institutions, not in systems -- >> okay, but what about the kids who are back at the school that's not working? what about those kids? >> well, in places where there have been -- where there's a lot of choice that's been introduced, florida, for

example, the studies show that when there's a large number of students that opt to go to a different school or different schools, the traditional public schools actually -- the results get better as well. >> has that happened in michigan? where in michigan? this is your home state. >> michigan -- well, yes, there's lots of great options and choices for students here. >> have the public schools in michigan gotten better. >> i don't know. i can't say overall they have all gotten better. >> the whole state is not doing well. >> well, there are certainly lots of pockets where the students are doing well -- >> no, but your argument that if you take funds away that the schools will get better is not working in michigan where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here. >> i hesitate to talk about all schools in general because schools are made up of individual students attending them. >> the public schools here are doing worse than they did.

>> michigan schools need to do better. there is no doubt about it. >> have you seen the really bad schools? maybe try to figure out what they're doing? >> i have not -- i have not -- i have not intentionally visited schools that are underperforming. >> maybe you should. >> maybe i should, yes. >> kind of painful, noah, less money means greater success in education? kind of painful. >> that wasn't a great interview, no. i'm not sure why they let her on camera without the stats at hand she was trying to refer to. she was talking about florida and referring to an urban institute study that suggests college enrollment increased among students who took part in the choice programs but that was not great for the cause of school choice. i have to say, however, that betsy devos is not the impetus for the movement that favors choice in schools. she is the product of a movement that favors choice in schools. that favors flexibility and innovation in the education system and removing the impediments to fungibility on

funds for schools and contracts that are mandated by unions that allow -- that freeze teachers from doing what they want to do. so betsy devos should be a better advocate for her cause but the cause will persist with or without her. >> fungibility. big words. heidi, betsy devos, we saw the clip coming in, ben carson, there cabinet is not exactly thrilling. >> well, when the president said on the campaign trail that he would bring the best people in with the most experience, we now have a pretty stark juxtaposition and i would say to add to what noah said that part of the challenge for betsy devos is that even though as a campaign donor and republican -- big republican heavy hitter in michigan, she and her family put a lot of money into pushing the school choice initiatives in that state in the direction that that state has taken. she hasn't been an educator and

she hasn't been on the ground as an educator even now when she acknowledged that she hadn't been into these underperforming schools and so she herself is in a pretty tough position there. but you would expect that she would have a lot of data at hand just because michigan in many ways has been kind of a testing ground, a lab for the school choice and what's happened there, fair or not, because we were starting, for example, in detroit with some pretty poor performing schools, but those schools are still really underperforming and she should have at least the basic amount of data at her fingertips to know that that is a question that she's going to get if she walks into an interview with lesley stahl. >> odd thing, the education secretary not doing her home work. she's on "today" this morning to

talk about the president's gun policy but what happened to raising the age to buy rifles? we'll go live to the white house. and after a slew of scandals, the white house chief of staff reportedly calls in cabinet secretaries to remind them to behave, but what about the behavior coming from the oval office? speaking of bad behavior, how about the president's rally in pennsylvania this weekend? "morning joe" is coming right back. here's the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve. let's go to sumatra. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win's family.

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running in -- can you believe it -- two years from now -- is going to be "keep america great" exclamation point. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joe scarborough here with working camera and all. on set with us this morning we have mike barnicle and noah rothman, heidi przybyla, david ignatius and bob costa. bob, i think it's safe to say chaos reigns a bit inside the white house. we obviously have a lot of concerns about bob mueller inside the white house but also concerns about rick saccone, donald trump trashing him behind the scenes saying republicans may not be able to hold a seat in deep red pennsylvania.

what have you heard? >> the white house has walked away from candidates like senator luther strange before who have disappointed them but it will be more difficult for congressional republicans to walk away for from a defeat tomorrow if it happens in southwest pennsylvania. high stakes for the president and the gop as they try to keep their majorities. this is a heavy trump district. the president rallied there over the weekend trying to get his voters ginned up to come out and votes but it's looking like a tough race. republicans trying to run against house democratic leader nancy pelosi but it's not exactly catching on. >> and a very tough race and once again the president of the united states goes to a rally, he does this time and time again and he doesn't make it about the guy he's supposed to be campaigning for, instead he makes it all about himself and boy did he make it about himself this weekend. let's look at the tape. >> president xi. president for life. i was jokes and i said, ha,

president for life, that sounds good, maybe we're going to have to try it. [ cheers and applause ] president for life. but i'm joking. but i'm joking. south korea came to my office after having gone to north korea and seeing kim jong-un and -- [ boos ] no, it's very positive. no. after the meeting you may do that but now we have to be very nice because let's see what happens. that washington, d.c., there's a lot of evil there but we're getting it out step by step. a lot of evil. a lot of bad people. lot of bad people. a lot of fake media. [ boos ] look at them. a lot of fake media. [ boos ] fake, fake media. it's 1999, i'm on "meet the press" a show now headed by sleep eye-eyes chuck todd.

he's a sleeping son of a bitch, i'll tell you. >> you know, he likes to put names on people, he did that through the entire presidential election including all the republicans that he beat so these are campaign rally issues. this is something that is at a campaign rally and the president likes making funny names. >> if we're to dismiss everything he says at a campaign rally, as i think you're trying to imply, then are you saying we shouldn't cover these things. >> you're putting words in my mouth. i wasn't saying you should dismiss that whatsoever, you should obviously carry them because these are important moments for the president and this is news. what i'm trying to say is i'm focused on the policies. >> we have a trade deficit of almost $800 billion. they said he cannot win, he

cannot get. remember? to 270. and we didn't. we got to 306. we got 306 to 223. >> you know, noah, i'm having difficulty -- i don't know what's harder to get your arms around, the president of the united states is speaking using the language that he was using or the fact that steve mnuchin is secretary of the treasury. both are tough to grasp. >> i suppose -- i'm not sure if i would do better than the president likes making up funny names if i was in his position. there is no defense and if you're going to defend him, there's a reason why his defensers and the administration outside of it have reached for these analogies to a young child without impulse control because that's what it sounds like when he's on the stage like that and

we make excuses for it because it rattles up his crowd and makes him interested in rallying his crowds but it's diminishing returns if you're a republican. the republican covenant with this president was "we'll make him look good, we'll protect him, we'll have investigations into him and run block." and he signs our legislation and he doesn't make our lives more difficult and sometimes he makes their lives more difficult. by endorsing sweeping gun control measure, immigration reform along democratic line, tariffs now protect i impulses towards small population that affect the economy negatively. the republican burden is getting very hard and donald trump's is not that difficult. >> watching that crowd, you could see people were being entertained, many of them smiling, some of them laughing. he speaks to a captive audience, he is a president seemingly alone but i was wondering your take on the percentage of republicans who are with him to

the end. whatever the end -- however you define the end, whenever the end occurs. we keep hearing 33%, 34%. do you think it's that high? >> no. not until the end. this is politics vmg. it's always important to remember a lot of people went to see "the darkest hour." that's winston churchill in 1940. churchill saves western civilization in 1940. helps, along with fdr and the russians, helps defeat hitler win world war ii and is immediately voted out of office. it's'sier ee's easier to say t donald trump until they're not. when you ask people are you with donald trump? they say of course i support donald trump, it's a linear decision, the only other choice is hillary clinton. when it's donald trump or ben

sasse or donald trump and -- or james langford or donald trump or jeff flake or other republicans that jump in or a business person, donald trump's biggest fear is it may be donald trump versus mark cuban in the republican primary. he doesn't want that. in fact, he probably wouldn't run if mark cuban ran in the republican primary and a lot of people around him don't think that will happen. so for now they are with him but there's no doubt that a lot of them, heidi, are going stay at home and let's have a counter for a second, let's talk about counter history here. what if donald trump didn't take to twitter? what if he didn't insult all of his political adversaries and political friends. what if donald trump had had discipline? you would have rick saccone saying we've lowered your taxes,

we've made it easier to operate because regulations have been lowered as well and you know isis, that terror group two years ago that we were hearing was going to not only take over the middle east but come to your hometowns and blow you up and blow your children up at school and blow our military -- they're gone. we've beaten them. they could be talking about all of those victories. instead the president shows there just can't get out of his way so he's offending a lot of educated republicans in the suburbs of pittsburgh who are going to do just what educated republicans in the suburbs of philadelphia or birmingham did and that is vote against a republican for the first time in their lives. >> we're seeing a perfect illustration of that in that race, joe because we're looking here at the numbers. what is donald trump's effect on this race? it's pretty significant

considering the fact that this district is not one of those obama/trump districts that first voted for obama then voted for trump. it's not by any definition a swing district. in fact, murphy, the previous republican who held that seat, didn't even have a challenger in his last election so then we drilled down into the numbers in this district, joe, and what we see is what we're seeing in a lot of these districts across the country where republicans are increasingly concerned strong disapproval ratings for president trump among people who disapprove of him so their feelings and intensity is strong compared to what we're seeing on the republican side and, yes, even in these districts that are deep red, which is what i would characterize this district as, you have this component of suburban educated voters here in allegheny county in pennsylvania who are going to be more mobilized and as you tick through those examples, joe, of the ways in which trump has

alienated these voters, you explain this enthusiasm gap and what the democrats are doing here to take advantage of that are here again in pennsylvania, a perfect example, recruiting democrats who really fit the district likes conor lamb. democrats could don't this alone just on anti-trump fervor, but it's part of the method of also recruiting democrats who really fit the district, in this case conor lamb and we'll see if this is a good example of the economic populist message these democrats will carry. >> and david ignatius, you know, you brought up a couple of things last hour, one, you talked about how donald trump seemed to be denigrating the office of the presidency and what we expect of our president. at the same time you brought up the one voter that said conor lamb, he's such a good young man, he'd -- i'd love him to be my son. and you see the great contrast

there. while heidi was talking we had the president waddling around like he was a penguin. the president of the united states, not exactly ronald reagan at normandy. not exactly barack obama in charleston. and there is such -- campaigns are always about contrast and here you have the president going in trying to defeat a young man who is pro-business, who is reasonable and rational on guns according to people even in that district and he's a vet who carries himself with dignity. i think the democrats may have found a way forward against a president who openly mocks the presidency and what we americans want from our president. >> joe, we'll have to count those results tomorrow focusing on precisely that issue.

i'm struck watching this tape. this is what donald trump does best. it may be appalling, it may offend a lot of people but this anti-elitist show that he puts on and campaign rallies and really from the white house almost everyday, that's the thing he's accomplished in the year of his presidency is to have this daily pounding of the elites in particular the media and, let's be honest, those are popular lines. when he goes after the media, the media is not beloved in our country, i wish we were more popular but we're not. we're doing our job. i think this is very much the way he has come to view the presidency. we had a perfect example over the weekend. the issue of gun violence in our schools deeply vexes americans. what did the president do after talking about how he was going to rise to this challenge?

essentially nothing. he backed away from the tougher limits on who can buy assault weapons. he kicked this to a national commission headed by, of all people, betsy devos, one of the least unifying personalities i can imagine. he didn't address the issue the country cares about. instead what he does is take the show on the road as he did to pennsylvania and it does appeal to his core base, you can see him smiling and laughing and cheering in the background but we're going to have another test tomorrow about how wide that appeal is. we'll find out. >> and that's just the thing, bob costa. it seems like narrow casting. you can go into one of donald trump's crowds, you can insult chuck todd, you can insult katy tur, you can insult mika brzezinski, but you look at the polls and people trust the press

more than donald trump, people trust bob mueller than donald trump. this narrow casting got him in trouble in alabama and virginia and i wonder what you hear on the hill. is there any understanding that donald trump's narrow casting is going to put nancy pelosi or somebody else in as the next democratic speaker of the house? >> there certainly is that fear, joe, but you floated names earlier. senator sasse, senator lang ford who could rupture the dynamic but perhaps the most revealing interview was senator flake on "meet the press" talking about how he could look at a run in 2020 but he doesn't know if it would be inside of the republican party. he acknowledged on air the republican party is in essence owned by president trump, the base, even though it doesn't comprise the country, comprises a big part of that beating heart of the republican party and that's the challenge facing those people you were mentioning. how do they do it in this

environment or do they have to run as an independent if they want to change american politics? >> of course, bob, that all changes if one democrats up to l and then suddenly you have democrats winning in a massive landslide in the fall. obviously, bob, that would change certainly the environment in the republican party, wouldn't it? >> it would. if you see the democrats take the house and move to impeach president trump this time next year you could have a republican party in full revolt but it's going to take until november. at this point, every lawmaker i'm talking to still think thinks they're going to hang on to the trump ship as long as they can through this midterm election because at this point they tell me he's their best chance of getting out their own voters as they face the resistance and energy democrats. >> we'll see if that works. everybody stay with us. coming up next, the president backs off his principle pledge when it comes to new gun safety laws. we'll go live to the white house

with a report on that. plus, it's one of the more baffling aspects of today's american political landscape -- the president's appeal among evangelicals when his words and actions seem to be antithetical to their beliefs. and some evidence that some of that support may be waning, especially among women who are evangelicals. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. your brain changes as you get older.

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the white house has unveiled several policy proposals in the wake of last month's mass shooting at a florida high school. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, what kind of steps is the white house looking to take in response to the shooting in florida, including, you know, raising the age of being able to buy an assault weapon. >> that's the big question. president trump had indicated in

the days after the massacre in parkland, florida, that he was ready to take on the nra over that issue. ready to support increasing the minimum age to buy some weapons but now if you look at this plan, it looks like he's backing away from that fight. backing away from increasing the age or at least that full-throated support of it. here are the main pillars of the plan. it calls for rigorous firearm training for some teachers. that's the controversial proposal this the nra fully supports. it also calls for establishing a commission to study school safety, ways to make schools safer. it supports legislation that could strengthen background checks but no language about increasing the age to buy some weapons. now the white house says, look, they are looking into studying the possibility of that so they're not backing away entirely but there's no language to that in effect this initial

proposal that is being unveiled. another point that's interesting, mike. if you listen to the president over the weekend when he was at the rally in pennsylvania, he criticized commissions saying that they're ineffective and now this commission that they're creating to deal with school safety is the crux of this plan so an interesting dichotomy there. education secretary betsy devos is going to be heading up the commission. she was on the "today" show just moments ago defending the proposal. when pressed over and over again by savannah about arming some teachers she said "look, this would be done on a case-by-case basis." critics say bottom line this plan isn't tough enough and relies too heavily on states to fix this problem, mike. >> so heidi, betsy devos, head of the school safety commission, we saw the secretary on in an earlier clip from last night's "60 minutes" and she was totally unarmed with facts and now she's

going to be head of the school safety commission? i don't know. >> well, there is a joke here in washington that when you want to punt on an issue, what do you do? you create a commission. we've seen many more examples of failed commissions. that said i do hear from folks on the hill that this is such an intractable issue that that may be the inevitable starting place where we have to go because if you look at what the president is supporting, it's nothing coming out of the white house other than this commission. it's kicking everything to the states, everything to congress. and even his own proposals, for example, increasing the age, if you remember the one thing from the round table he had with lawmakers that he was so strong on was strong background checks, strong back ground checks. there's none of that in here other than to strengthen the current system that we have. there's no expansion of the background check system which just a few years ago was

considered a minor concession that we couldn't even get through congress. so my guess is that, yes, we'll create this commission and, no it won't do anything but it will collect ideas and if at the end of the 2018 election there is an agreement that guns was an issue then maybe the new congress can pick up with those ideas and run. >> >> what's unbelievable is the new congress may pick up ideas and run but this congress won't even do the nra said they should do. this president won't even do what the nra claims they should do. maybe they are quietly killing it behind the scenes, they are that cynical but the nra said it's okay to move on bump stocks yet they're not moving on bump stocks. the nra said it's okay for them to move on the cornyn/murphy bill on enhanced background checks, nobody is moving on that either and david ignatius, how

remarkable. you have to president of the united states mocking republicans saying you're scared of the nra when they were doing far more, the ones that he was pushing, pat toomey and democrat joe manchin were actually doing so much more than other republicans did and now you have the president in the corner cowering in fear of the nra weeks after claiming to be so much stronger than them but look what happened at the nra meeting, look what happened with the gun meeting. look what happened with the dreamers meeting with dianne feinstein there and everybody -- the president saying whatever you guys decide to do we want to do. it makes you look at his announcements not only on the transgender ban but even in meetings with north korea around you start saying this man means absolutely nothing that he's saying, even if he announces it from the white house or the cabinet room and so i think

aren't we wise to question whether he'll even have a meeting with north korea? >> well, i think -- my bet is that meeting will take place but i think, joe, you're right that there is a pattern here where the president makes strong emphatic disruptive statements. people are wondering, oh, my gosh, is he going to fight the nra? is he going to take some radical new departure and it ends up that basically time after time the president punts. he defaults to congress. that's what happened on daca legislation. the president came out saying i'm going to solve this, i care about this problem. in the end he let it go, didn't even support the congressional compromise that emerged. same thing happened on iran. i'm ready to tear up the deal. in the end he punted it to congress. we don't know what the policy is. same thing on obamacare, the question of health care vexing the country, the president

claimed he was going to deal with it, couldn't, kicked it off to congress. so i think you see through the first year of the administration now very clearly this issue of gun safety, the president does not want to take responsibility himself for major changes. >> and, again it lines up with what we've been saying all morning. this is a president who's playing to a small strong base. maybe it's 33% of americans and when he promises action on daca but punts, when he promises action on rational gun safety and punts, when he promises action on reforming health care and punts, all he's doing is offending those demographic voters he needs for his candidates to win this fall. so i think choppy waters ahead not only for this president but for the republican congress. when we come back, we'll

talk to a man who's considered to be the foremost evangelical writers and thinkers in america, michael gerson. he'll talk about how evangelicals lost their way and got hooked on donald trump. plus, i'm to ask him what he thinks about the latest polls showing evangelical women moving away from this president. more when "morning joe" returns. hey. pass please. i'm here to fix the elevator. nothing's wrong with the elevator. right. but you want to fix it. right. so who sent you? new guy. what new guy? watson. my analysis of sensor and maintenance data indicates elevator 3 will malfunction in 2 days. there you go. you still need a pass.

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welcome back to "morning joe," so glad you could be with us. let's bring in mike gerson. he's columnist for the "washington post." his cover story for the "atlantic's" april issue is how evangelicals lost their way and got hooked by donald trump. he wrotes in part, quote, one of the most extraordinary thinks about our current politics is a loyal adherence of religious conservatives to donald trump. the president won four-fifths of the votes of white evangelical christians. this was a higher level of support than either ronald reagan or george w. bush. an outspoken evangelical himself

ever received. trump's beliefs could hardly be more incompatible with traditional christian models of life and leadership. this is a result when christians become one interest group among many, scrambling for benefitsover at the expense of other rather than seeking the welfare of christian evangelicals to rescue the faith of their worst leaders. michael joins us now. michael, of all the things that has discouraged me over the past year and a half -- and there have been quite a few things that have discouraged me it's watching people that i've grown up with my entire life. i'm not calling these people out specifically but this is where i grew up, first baptist churchover meridien, mississippi, first baptist church of pensacola, florida.

i could go through the list. we moved across the deep south. i grew up among vanings, when i ran for office i got 95% of the evangelical vote but when i see these evangelical leaders come on tv i feel about as removed from them as i would when let's say nancy pelosi was speaking to the democratic national convention in san francisco in 1984. i don't get it. >> i wrote this piece in many ways because i was wrong. i thought around 2,000 that the with model -- we have found that's not true. evangelicals were uniquely susceptible trump's message. they are his army of enablers.

there are a lot of reasons but they come to view themselves as this persecuted minority that needs the protection of a strong man and this is fundamentally is mistake. >> one of the more fascinating developments in the evangelical church for me is when i first ran in 1994. young people that came to work on my campaign wanted to talk about abortion and traditional marriage and the social issues that had been framed at least since 1980 and the rise of the moral majority and the christian coalition with social issues. by the time i left in 2001 every young evangelical coming in was wearing birkenstocks and what were they talking about? poverty programs, they were what i call matthew 25 christians and they were absolutely obsessed

with malaria in africa, aids in africa and that's why they found such a strong voice with george w. bush. how did we go from matthew 25 evangelicals to stormy daniels evangelicals? >> right. i was part of developing pep far, the president's emergency plan for aids relief and it was an extraordinary example of evangelicals coming together with liberal public health advocates and doing something extraordinary, saving the lives of millions of people, it's a model. but that's not where we're headed. there's a generational element to this. evangelicals 55 and older really are more in this camp than not matthew camp, the trump camp. and evangelicals that are maybe 45 and younger have a very different view on this. there are two things going on. one a generation is being alienated. so millennials self-identify as

evangelicals at a much lower level. they're essentially saying if this is religion i don't want any part of it but i spent a lot of time on evangelical college campuses and there the spirit is different. they're not oriented towards the culture wars, they really are -- want to take christian ethics and apply first principles to large problems instead of just reacting to perceptions of social aggression in ways that are really in many ways often focused on sexual matters, reacting to sexual matters rather than taking the basics of christian faith and practice which is really a certain anthropology, a view of human beings, their rights and dignity, and applying it to a broad range of issues which is where i think the younger generation is headed. >> this is not self-help talk that michael is speaking about, this is what jesus said when his

disciples asked how they got to heaven, you read the last half of matthew 25 and it talks about helping the helpless, feeding those who are hungry and you go down the line. of course the golden rule is called that for a reason because jesus said love others as you love yourself, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and of course we've gone a long way from that if you look at donald trump at these rallies and noah rothman, i won't ask you how old you are, noah, but i know you're younger than i am. i'm 54, 55 years old. i grew up in the suburbs of atlanta, maybe this explains the generational divide, and i saw my parents being horrified by what they saw on the tv set in chicago 1968, what they saw at kent state 1971. what they saw when campuses were burning, streets were burning

and life long fdr democrats who suddenly started voting republican starting in 1972 and i just wonder if that's the generational divide that has explained so much, this feeling of siege because if you were in suburban atlanta or suburban philadelphia or suburban anywhere in the 1960s and 1970s, you would have felt like your world was under siege. >> yeah, i'm 36, i was raised in new jersey in a secular household, conservative household so i don't have any of that personal experience with 1968 but when it comes to -- or religion, frankly, but when it comes to moral orthodoxy, it was the moral majority position on bill clinton, the attacks on his character and his vacuousness and his immoral ability to stake out a position that was absolute

struck me as direct and it was a lot of the stuff that helped my political maturation and the fact that quite a few of these people who staked out a position on bill clinton has abandoned it for donald trump is a real betrayal and it's affecting my political leanings and those who came of age in the 1990s. i don't think it has anything do with donald trump -- i'm not sure if michael would agree with me -- but when you saw, for example, roy moore running for the senate, before the allegations involving young women came out, the issues that i was confronted with were that judicial interventionism is good when it helps us. we need somebody to intervene in law and make law from the bench when it supports us because otherwise you don't have a moral nation. you have a country that is base and impure and that's the reasoning that i guess leads

people like jerry falwell to say jeff sessions is probably a deep state plant but -- and that's like the craziest of those positions but i bet it resonates a lot with evangelical leaders of a certain age who believe that the trajectory of the country is in such a terrible place that all actions are justified on their behalf. >> i think that's true. i think many evangelical leaders i talked to think they're making a realistic bargain here. they know trump is flawed but he's going to do the right things on judges and other matters. i think that's a very mistaken trust. first of all just from a political perspective, associating issues like pro-life issues and pro-life family issues with misogyny, for example or exclusion or nativism is discrediting to those ideals so in the long run i think that that is a devil's bargain, it's not a good bargain.

it's also -- they're joining in the disillusion of important norms about decency and character. that's the height of hypocrisy. but ultimately the biggest issue that i think -- which i develop in the essay is they're discrediting their approach to faith itself. they're turning off people to their deepest beliefs, alienating them for reasons that have absolutely nothing do with the christian gospel, that's a very serious matter. i think there are a lot of people who have reacted and said i don't want any part of it. >> michael, we've had a lot of good matthew talk this morning, matthew 7:12, do unto others as you would have others do unto you. i'm taken by one line in your piece. this is the result when christians become one interest group among many scrambling for benefits at the expense of others rather than seeking the welfare of the whole. so based upon your experience,

benefits. what benefits are they talking about? are they talking about religious benefits or swapping their own cultural/religious benefits as if they're in a caucus room? >> they think they're under siej. >> by whom? >> by courts that would rule against them on religious liberty issues, by bureaucracies, particularly under the obama administration where they felt like these were hostile bureaucracies so they have these reasons but i think it's just -- it's bad politics and bad spirituality. they're mistaken on a number of different levels. >> all right, michael gerson, thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate it and want to make sure everybody picks up a copy of the "atlantic" "how evangelicals lost their way." great conversation, we would love to have you back soon to talk about it more.

up next, all eyes are on pennsylvania and we'll talk to a guy who probably knows more about pennsylvania politics more than anybody else. not that guy on the screen but ed rendell, who came on our show during the republican national convention in philadelphia and predicted that donald trump was going to win his state. he's see what his redictipredic tomorrow when "morning joe" returns.

you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet. you know what's not awesome? when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids, and these guys, him, ah. oh hello. that lady, these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. welcome back to "morning joe," great to have you with us. now, in the wake of the president's decision to implement stiff tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, president trump has spent the last several days fielding calls from foreign leaders pressing the president on his decision. the list of leaders who have spoken with the president

includes a number of u.s. allies such as the canadian prime minister, the japanese prime minister, the australian prime minister and the french president emmanuel macron. the white house says in his telephone call that his decision is necessary and appropriate to protect national security. but while the trump administration's readout focused on the president's arguments for tariffs, it failed to mention macron's serious concerns with them. that includes his warning to the president that, quote, europe will.respond clearly and proportionately against any unfounded practice that is contrary to the rules of world trade. david ignatius, that's a fairley strong washing from the french president. and i'm sure it's a similar warning that the president got across the eu and from from, of course, our closest allies. >> joe, i spent the last few days in brussels in belgium with

a lot of leaders from europe who were talking above all, north korea was obviously in the air, but talking about these tariffs. european leaders fear that the fundamental structure of what they see of as the global international system, international economic system, their own europe kwan union, is under attack from the president. and they see these tariff threats as potentially major disruptions in the way that they've been doing business. so, yes, they are beginning to prepare lists and they were specific about it in our conversations. lists of products where they would sooem seek to retaliate against the united states for its tariff moves on steel, aluminum, perhaps other products. also, they're thinking about going to the world trade organization. the organization that the u.s. over the last several decades built to be the instrument of

the u.s.-led rules-based order, they're thinking of going to that body to seek to bring it this in to curtailing trump administration trade policies. so it was a scene where you saw the degree to which our allies are worried. >> our allies are worried about costs and the president's allies also wondered what would it take for republicans to speak against donald trump. i think we got our answer, tariffs. >> they've got to answer to their constituents in their local areas. the chamber of commerce. as a reporter, you look at this and you say, this is a political test. in the coming months, lawmakers tell me they're going to be watching. can he actually cut a better

deal on nafta? those talks swr r have called. in his words, the 25 and 10 tariffs, he's taking on steel and aluminum. he's gotten some progress on tried and that's going to have a political cost, whatever way it swings. stay with us. coming up next, president trump sums up his north korean policy. by saying who knows what is going to happen. we're going to show you what he told the revved up crowd in pennsylvania. plus, london's mayor is going to join the conversation on "morning joe." growing up, we were german. we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that

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when i was in china, and other places, by the way, i said, mr. president, do you have a drug problem? no, no, we do not. i said what do you attribute that to? well, the death penalty. so i don't know that the united states frankly is ready for it. they should be ready for it. but at a minimum, you have to give long, tough sentences. think of it. you kill one person, you get the death penalty. in many many states.

you kill 5,000 people with drugs because you're smuggling them in and you're making a lot of money and people are dieing, and they don't even put new jail, they don't do anything. that's why we have a problem, folks. and i don't think -- i don't think we should play games. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that president, that line has been the crowd tested by the president quite a lot. and i suspect he's going to be using it much more in the future. it's going to stick around. interesting, though, that, again, he's getting his policy. and the guy he seems to admire the most and the guy he seems to be obsessed with the most is the man who is patterning himself after chairman mao and that is the leader of china. very interesting. in had that case, also, later the philippines, two men with absolutely no democratic impulses whatsoever. welcome back to "morning joe." with us this hour, we've got

mike barnacle, david ignatius. oh, we have nelba rothman. as i said, david ignatius, heidi prisbella and robert costa. and it is, david ignatius, how fascinating it is. and troubling that donald trump seems to be obsessed with the leader of china who has spent the last six months consolidating his power and liking himself more up with chairman mao than any other chinese leader since mao's departure from the world stage. >> well, watching trump's performance in pennsylvania, this is not the fireside chats of franklin roosevelt, but it is a kind of intimate way of connecting with his followers. and i do think he sees xi jinping in china as a model, a fellow big guy.

they both take up a lot of space on the stage. in china, it's interesting that xwhr xi has been known as xi dada, big daddy xi. that's the way donald trump would like the to be seen, i think, by a lot of americans. big daddy donald, the guy who tells it likes it is, the guy who increasingly seeks to form a cult of personality around himself. so i think there are parallels. the president speaks with obvious enthusiasm about the opportunity to be president for life, which is what xi jinping has just become. we'll assume he's joking. he doesn't really want to change our constitution. but there's obviously an affinity there and you can see it in the way the president carries himself. every time he talks the about xi jinping. >> well, the president wants us to believe that he's joking when he talks about being president for life. but he did use it as an applause line in a speech in

pennsylvania. let's listen to some of the clips right now. >> president xi, president for life. i was joking and i said, ha, president for life, that sounds can good. maybe we're going to have to try that. president for life. but i'm joking. but i'm joking. south korea came to my office after having gone to north korea and seeing kim jong un and -- no, it's very positive. no. after the meeting you may do that, but now we have to be very nice because let's see what happens. that washington, d.c., got a lot of evil there, but we're getting it out step by step. a lot of evil. a a lot of bad people. a lot of bad people. a lot of fake media. look at them. a lot of fake media. fake, fake media. it's 1999.

i'm on "meet the press," a show now headed by sleepy eyes chuck todd. he's a sleeping son of a bitch, i'll tell you. women won't like donald trump. it will be a rough night for donald trump. because the women won't come out. we got 52%, right? 52. right. they said, he cannot win. he cannot get. remember? to 270. and we didn't. we got to 306. we got 306 to 223. >> many people, including myself, raise their kids to respect the office of the presidency and the president of the united states. when he uses vulgarity to talk about individuals, what are they supposed to tell their kids? >> again, i'll be with my kids this morning and i'll be focused on them on what the president is doing to protect the united states, its citizens and more

important its economy. >> so don't worry about his values, don't worry about him as a role model -- >> i've never said that whatsoever, so i don't know why you're putting these words in what i'm trying to say, okay. so, again, i am very comfortable with what we're doing, okay. and, again, i think you're trying to take this out of perspective and implying something i'm not saying. >> fair enough. what do you did -- what are you supposed to say when he's using these vulgarities to to kids? >> again, i think you should be focused on what the policies are. he's using these vulgarities in the context of a campaign rally. and, obviously, there were a lot of funny moments on that rally. >> they were hilarious. >> yeah. now, actually, chuck had a reason to be a little sarcastic there in the end. the president attacking chuck todd just like he's attacked myco host, katie terr and others and getting the crowd bewhipped

into a frenzy. and, again, the treasury secretary just sits the there and i guess apologizes for it. he can say whatever with he wants to say, but bob costa, at the end of the day, maybe the president's cabinet is not going to be critical of it. but, again, you look at alabama, you look at virginia, you look at some of these special elections that have been taking place. and women have moved away from republicans if in large numbers. in alabama, black voters turned out in historic numbers. hispanics, educated republicans, suburban republicans. it seems to me that these speeches that the president gives, yeah, he gets crowds, big crowds and he gets up a certain part of the base, but it seemed like he offends far more. how is that going to play out tomorrow? >> the republicans have bought the ticket and have taken the ride. at this point, they're in.

there is no real choice here. they're going to start running against president trump a few months before the mid materials. the more intrigued comments in that rally were about xi jinping. president moon of south korea is trying to get north korea boxed in, brings in president trump, gives him the invitation. prime minister abe in japan cozies up to trump to box out china and the president is trying to have his own relationship with china, assert the u.s. as a rival in the region, as a power. he makes his own move with north korea. that's the real news to me coming out of this rally. everything else, it's pretty predictable. of course republicans are cringing behind the scenes about some of his language, the inappropriate vulgarity, but they know that is who he is. and here not about to run away from him because they're scared about whether the voters are going to come out in november. >> and noah, how regardble is it that you have a president from the party of ronald reagan going

to western. and getting an applause line by praising an autocrat running china with an iron fist, president xi with, whooile condemning chuck todd, a member of the free press, and discouraging voters from booing kim jong un. >> it's remarkable and disconcert issing that the president seems to think that the voters in western pennsylvania booing a despit the e in north korea will derail negotiations there. i don't think that will be a problem for him. we talk a lot about the resurgence of populist nationalist movements, nostalgic movements, even liberal movements in europe. we don't talk a lot about it in asia. but it is in asia, too, where a cult of mao is resurging in china.

duterte, a populist figure executing people in the streets for drug dealing and is a very popular figure for it. illegal figures, they don't make any bones about what their enemy is, classical liberalism. they're very nakedly hostile towards these things. and i think the defenders of classical liberalism is going to have to get more aggressive naming their adversary, too, because they're very apologetic for their values that elevated so many millions out of poverty over the course of these years. this is something they need to be very expressive about. their adversary is no holds barred. >> david ignatius, i found it interesting that you referenced fire cha fireside chats a couple of minutes ago. 83 years ago today, franklin delanor roosevelt gave him first

fireside chat to this nation. there had been bank holidays called by the president. the country needed to be calmed down. people needed to be reassured that democracy if in america would survive and fdr managed to do that, not just with a single fireside chat, but over the course of his career, obviously. it was called then and is called today leadership. so i'd like to ask you, i discertain going around, there's a ripple of unrest in this country that hasn't been dealt with. and one of the reasons for the unrest is the unneringly playing to the cheap seats cadence that comes out of the white house. let's have the death penalty for drug abusers. but one thing went unnoticed in the past few days that i'd like to ask you about. and it is this. russian operatives in syria apparently with the passit consent of the kremlin, and thus putin, attacked an american

special forces unit. they picked on the wrong unit and they got crushed. but it's virtually a declaration of war against the united states of america, another one. not a cyber war. a real physical gunshot war. and the president has yet to say a single thing about it. >> his silence about russia is confounding. it's one of the strangest things about his presidency. i was in syria on the morning that that attack finished. i was with the commander who ordered it about three or four hours after the battle ended. and it's striking that it was very clearly because of the liaison conversations between u.s. officers and russians on the scene. the u.s. kept saying these forces are coming at us. these forces are connected to you. are you going to stop these forces? and nothing was done. and timely, the russians had

been denying any connection, asked for a truce so they could collect their dead and wounded. but it shows that the use of american military power has effects. the russians have not protested or respond ed. they knew they were offside and they took that pounding. on this question of the fireside chat, you and i, mike, remember american politicians who could speak to the country and calm anxieties. that used to be what we would celebrate as the great quality of leadership. ronald reagan had it. lind linden johnson had it. this president has a approach that if there is a scab forming in american life over a difficult issue, rather than trying to heal that wound, he rips the scab off.

we saw some of that in the speech in pennsylvania. we see that on every issue, every campaign, every speech. if something is wrong, if something is trying to heal in america, wlets rip it off and expose the friction and the anger. and i think that's the thing that worries me the most about him is we're a country that we are divided. had there is no question about that. that predates donald trump. the problem is that he just keeps driving a wedge deeper in the divisions. we saw that as clearly as i can remember in the speech in pennsylvania. and the only response in our democracy has to come from voters. people have to say, that's not what i want. that's not where we want the country to be going. >> john mcglock lynn salaughline recall presidents party by their words. inalienable rights, four score, nothing to fear. ask not. shining legacy. trump legacy so far?

mostly insults. crooked, fake, loser, will i ddel, hoax, scam, psycho, s.o.b., ribbed, flungky, s-hole. sad. i go back to what david ignatius said. obviously much to be discouraged about. you look at the interviews that voters had in pennsylvania. voters are always the leveling win. when democrats go forward to the left, their their midterm elections pull them back to the center. when republicans go too far to the right, there are midterm elections that pull them back to the center. and all of this demagoguery from donald trump, we go from fireside chats to this firestorming the demagoguery. it seems at least if you listen to those interviews that vaughn hilliard had that americans at least temperamentally are

determined to pull this country back to the center. >> and specifically when it comes to that demagoguery in pennsylvania, we are looking at different demographic groups, right? we're looking at the suburban swing women. there's another group i want to draw your attention to here. it has to do with the economic populism that i think could be instructive for additional races going into 2018. that is union households, joe. we saw a lot of union members actually vote for trump in the past election. well, what's happening now is you're hearing from some of these same union members saying that they may be willing to quote/unquote split their ticket and vote for the democrat this time. here is the reason why i think republicans have to be worried going into 2018 based on what we're seeing here. the tax bill is just not resinating in the way that they hoped that it would when it comes to these voters and when it comes to the benefits that they're seeing in their

pocketbooks. really interesting trend here, joe, that has kind of flown under the radar is that republicans, after investing about $2.5 million in promoting the tax plan has now pivoted away from that. what are they running on? they're going after conor lamb on more social issues, like 'em gra immigration and tough on crime issues. that's a real problem. republicans said this tax bill would be their everything going into 2018. in the first case here of that tax law becoming law, it's not resinating with these voters and with trump's core base of working class white voters. >> as i said last week, the real shock for supporters of this tax bill, despite the fact they spill spent millions and millions of dollars promoting it, trying to turn the numbers around, donald trump's own political organization took a poll and the majority of people

in that poll agreed with nancy pelosi, that most americans outside the 1% would only receive, quote, crumbs. and if you really want to know how a policy selling a middle america, how important it's going to be for the election, you go to where what ross pe rot said was where the rubber met the road. that's in pennsylvania 2018. a deep red republican seat that republicans always win. guess what? as heidi said, they're not even talking about tax cuts there any more because those tax cuts are seen as disproportionately helping the richest americans. they voted for obama twice before that, voted for bill clinton before before that and voted for ronald reagan before that. again, it's a levelinging wind and it looks like that leveling wind is coming donald trump's

direction. david ignatius, thank you so much. as always, for being with us. your voice is always extraordinarily invaluable. thanks so much. coming up, john kelly is reportedly cracking down on the cabinet after members spent taxpayer cash on everything from a dining room set to a european getaway. drain the swamp? i don't think so. we're going to run through the worst offenders, coming up next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to ""morning joe."" white house chief of staff john kelly is reportedly cracking down on trump administration cabinet members for a run of bad headlines over their spending. this after hud secretary ben carson spent almost $31,000 for a customized dining room set.

ryan zinke spend $139,000 on a budget labeled secretary's door. veterans affairs secretary david shulkin, his staff hit a taxpayer funded trip to europe for the secretary and his wife. ep administrator scott pruitt was revealed to exclusively fly first class. after the trump administration lost the cabinet secretary over his pension for private jets. meanwhile, education secretary betsy devoss is going to be lead ago commission tasked with examining ways to protect schools from gun violence. you might remember her position on guns and schools from her confirmation hearing. >> i would imagine that there's probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies. >> yeah, our kids aren't worrying about grizzlies in their schools.

they're worried about ar-15s. well, in in an interview with "60 minutes" last night, devoss seemed to struggle with the most basic of questions. >> are the public schools in michigan gotten better? >> i don't know. overall, i can't say overall that they have all gotten better. >> the whole state is not doing well. >> well, there are certainly lots of pockets where the students are doing well and -- but your argument that if you take funds away that the schools will get better is not working in michigan. where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here. i hesitate to talk about all schools in general because schools are made up of individual students attending them. have you seen the really bad schools? maybe try to figure out what they're doing? >> i have not -- i have not -- i have not intentionally visited schools that are underperforming. >> maybe you should.

>> maybe i should, yes. >> are you in any way, do you think, suggesting that the number of false accusations are as high as the number on of actual rapes or assaults? >> well, one sexual assault is one too many and one falsely accused individual are one too many. >> but are they the same? >> i don't know. i don't know. but i'm committed to a process that's fair for everyone involved. >> mcbarnacle, you played the entire -- or larger chunks of the interview earlier. boy, a rough, rough stretch of questions and answers there for an education secretary who has been under fire since the day she walked into office. >> yeah. joe, no doubt. and we led this segment talking about june kelly, the chief of staff. i don't think most americans

have a great idea of the scope, the responsibility of the job of the of chief of staff. but i would say this. john kelly's 40 years if the marine corps in the course of those times, he dealt with a lot. there's no doubt about that. but i don't think he has ever had to deal with the constant stream of chaos and incompetence that he's surrounded with, not only, you know, within the white house we've seen, but with the cabinet secretaries. it's just incredible. and i don't know -- i don't know how any human being can handle that. never mind just one individual. the white house with chief of staff. >> yeah. it's obviously amateur hour at the white house. there's a reason for that. donald trump didn't expect to be president of the united states. in the process he had a transition that was rocky, to say the least, and put a lot of people in their positions not based on whether they were prepared, but for a lot of different reasons. bob costa, though, let's talk about john kelly for a minute.

the general, well, he's faced quite a bit of controversy himself. we've had report over the past month that he was going to be headed out, that he was going to be pushed out of power. you had a showdown between jared kushner and john kelly, people like myself said the family always wins because the family has always won. i think it's safe to say, at least at this point in march, that john kelly has proven himself to be a lot tougher and more of a survivor than most of the washington press core expected. >> one metric security clearance, john kelly, the general still has his high level security clearance. jared kushner does not. he's close with general mattis, the defense secretary. talking to white house officials over the weekend, they say he go struggling. and he's had these meetings with cabinet officials and he's had to tell them, these aren't your kingdoms, these cabinet departmentes.

just because you have black suvs and a security staff and a large office, an operation, that doesn't mean you're not a government employee. you see all these stories about furniture pure chase, extravagant travel, but he's hindered, joe, because at this point in 2018, very limited time if they want to make a replacement to get a senate cop firmation. and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell isn't trying to have a major cabinet post inauguration. despite the fact we hear reports that the president's tired of general kelly trying to bring a little bit of discipline and order to the white house, and that all the staff members, as well, don't like him because he's doing what chief of staffs are supposed to do and that is stopping people from just wandering in and giving the president their thoughts. there is an order there and it's an order that, my gosh, only

leaves you with the relation of just how bad it would be perhaps if general kelly weren't in the west wing. bob costa, thank you so much for being with us. we're going to continue talking about pennsylvania '18 and also specifically we're going to be talking about the president's political analysis of the pennsylvania election. and i know you're going to be surprised by this. much of it focused on the physical appearance of both candidates. we'll have that when "morning joe" returns. >> and you had the president using what we used to call a dirty word to describe one of my colleagues. and i wonder as the education secretary who is in charge of what our kids learn, what do you think of that kind of language? would you wash someone's mouth out with soap? >> well, i would probably use different language myself. i think we all have an opportunity and responsibility to be examples to our kids. >> which includes the president? >> that would include the president, as well.

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i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. coming up, we've got a political round table standing by. it's going to be al sharpton, ed

rendell and chris hayes. they will be talking about the president in pennsylvania. plus pennsylvania '18 tomorrow. but first, here is bill carin wes a check on the potential for another hard hitting storm. bill, man, what is it? what comes in like a lion, does march come in lie a lion and remain a lion? >> the whole time. >> this is a brutal march. do you remember when it was like 75 in february and we were all like, oh, winter is over. >> you never say that. >> i know. >> that's one thing i've learned being north. you'll get two or three days warm in february. people will say to me, hey, looked like we survived the winter. i'm like, don't ever say that. and boy, this month especially. so what does it look like? how bad is it going to be? >> this is a eastern new england special, joe. this isn't going to be as widespread, but the areas it hits will be hit hard. the storm now is over kentucky and tennessee. now the storm is breaking out in

virginia. you'll drive home in the storm today. mid march snow is very rare, even three areas of the mid-atlantic. then we develop into a nor'easter. overnight tonight, snow spreads up from the south. winter storm warnings from montaugh, hartford and maine. how much snow are we talking? this is a good solid 8 to 12 inches from portland to boston. hartford is the dividing line of if you're east of hartford, heavier snow. 6 inches plus. west of hartford, lighter. new york in, light pavement. and our friends in northern vermont and new hampshire and maine, snowmobile and ski season is just going to keep on going. and the other components of a nor'easter, shouldn't be too bad with this one. could get up to 55, 60, near 70 miles per hour tomorrow afternoon. it's not 90 like the other storm we had. still, that could do some minor damage and knock out some people's power.

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sconor lamb, lamb the sham, he's trying to act like a republican. i hear he's nice looking. i think i'm better looking than him. i do. i do. permanently, i like rick saccone. i think he's handsome. we need our congressman saccone. we have to have him. we have to have him. the people of pittsburgh cannot be conned by this guy, lamb. you just can't do it. >> i really -- i don't know what to say. like this con or lamb guy is

pretty good looking, but the president says i think i'm better looking than him. obviously, every time ed rendell campaigned in pennsylvania, that was his line, as well. al sharpton is with us. along with ed hayes. mike barnacle, heidi and noah also still in the house. ed rendell, you actually -- when we were in philadelphia at the rnc -- at the dnc, you had predicted along with joe biden that donald trump could win and toll us off camera would most likely win pennsylvania if in part because the clinton campaign wasn't reaching out the to white working class voters in pennsylvania who were such an important part of pennsylvania politics. but here, how bizarre that you have donald trump who only seems

to be reach out to voters and my gosh, it's going to be fascinating to see what is happening in the suburbs of pittsburgh. >> it will be turnout. obviously, there will be a greater democratic turnouten than republican. but the question is how much greater? the if it's significantly greater, conor lamb is going to win. if it's fought too great a margin, conor lamb will probably lose. but he'll run 18, 16 points ahead of trump.

>> talk about how surprising it is that it's still close and what other republicans will run in 2018, what should they take away from the fact that we don't know who is going to win this race today? >> well, it's interesting. this is still a pretty good donald trump district. monmouth poll shows 51% of the people if in the district have a favorable opinion of the president. those are pretty good numbers for donald trump. if he can't deliver a candidate in that type of district because the democrat turnout is so great and the republican turnout is dispirited, i think tier in trouble across the board. and remember, he has a way of member mizing his candidates he's trying to help. i thought he made senator on saccone look small. chris, first of all, we're going to get to your book "a colony in

a nati a nation" out today. talking about the democrats and appealing the light ethnic working class folk, we've been talking about that for pomonths now. the union vote is going to be interesting to watch tonight, but the larger question is how does a democrat go and appeal that working class ethnic vote? >> look, i think the model of this right now you in american politics is, i would say, a senator shar sfee senator sharrod brown of ohio who runs 8 to 10 points ahead of someone like donald trump in ohio. i think he's favored to win that race. and he is laser focused on a bunch of core economic issues. s supported the steel tariffs, not surprisingly. he has been a critic of trade since he was a congressman in

ohio. but he also doesn't pander, right? he takes tough votes with the democratic caucus on a whole bunch of social issues, on things like abortion, things like lgbt rights, etcetera, but his emphasis are economic populist issues, things like trade, a living room wage, and he's deeply affected. if anyone has a key, keep in mind, this is someone whose political career has spanned a rightward shift of ohio. ohio, which was a swing state has moved much more into the republican column and brown has been able to sort of maintain his fold. >> that's a tough tight rope to walk, though, for a democrat. >> i think it's a rope they're going to have to walk, though, no matter how tight. and i think what we're going to really see tomorrow, we keep hearing about the erosion of

support for president trump, particularly among some of the white women that gave him a vote. we're going to see how real that is, no matter what the results are. and the enthusiasm level of the democrats. i think that we have a lot on to watch tomorrow, no matter how the race goes, because i think pennsylvania will tell a lot of that story. are we really taking for granted a democratic surge? are we that taking for granted that his base is ee rosing, he being donald trump, because i can what we saw on saturday night's rally was a donald trump rally. donald trump does not have the capacity to campaign for anybody but donald trump. >> exactly. >> so the there's no such thing as does he have any coat tails. he never leaves you his coat. >> governor, there seems to be an issue on the convergence of trade. conor ham never said he was against this and the republicans

are for it. we're now for these protectionist moves. we have this conception of western pennsylvania as a steel-produci steel-producing town, but pittsburgh is a medical center for innovation and technology. i don't really see them having this conception of themselves as a steel town that was and is no more. what does western pennsylvania think of -- >> that's more of the outlying areas outside of pittsburgh. there are stell coal miners and steelworkers, but fought a lot. so pittsburgh itself is a high tech city now. and you're right, but look on trades, i think the democrat ek position has to be evidence of that trade.

arlen specter and i testified we finally, after five years, got the quota card played. he think they buy at the store could go up. >> are you concern about that? >> no. it's understandable. we need a broad-based democratic party. conor lamb is prolye. that's okay. conor lamb is mild on gun control. but he's for universal background checks. that's okay. conor lamb is encouraged by the steeler workers union. so we have to have a broad-based

party. what i used to tell people is conor lamb will cast one vote that's important to you for the next speaker of the house of representatives. >> we progressives understand it. i'm working on chris, but we're getting there. >> so chris hayes, you've got your book out now in paper back. this is to regional best seller. this is no national best seller. it's an international best seller. it's news to me, yeah. >> and a galactic best seller with a new afterword. tell us what's new, what we're going to see in the book. >> i wrote the book while during the election and the election of donald trump. trump was only mentioned once in the book. the afterword focuses on technically the politics of law and order and what the president means when he talks about it. it's sort of a remarkable thing. here is a president that supporters rail against illegals and illegal immigration and the lawlessness of that, who

surround onned himself by, it can now be said, felons. we've had numerous felons in part of the campaign who have no concern whatsoever about lawlessness or criminality. and wines about due process when the person loses his job. this is what someone whose vision of what law and order is a profoundly tribal one, right? he doesn't care about the law in general. what he cares about is protecting the people close to him and using the laws of tool against those who are against hem. >> no. but i can what's important, also, about some of the issues you raised, which i've given my life to, is around the criminal justice issue. i think that what we are missing while we deal with all of the salacious stories, he has been began appointing federal judges. he has began putting federal prosecutors in that reverse

where we had started going under eight years of president obama that went all the way back to the beginning of the king movement. so the whole movement around criminal justice reform has been stalled and slowly being reversed under trump and that is very significant and devastating. and it's true. and we've seen jeff sessions, even against some of the sort of think tank right, you might call it, the crime coalition, people like cato and others who have advocated for getting rid of mandatory minimums, different sentencing guidelines. we have seen sessions take the party and take the doj in the direction of the old -- >> even if it's cato and others. and now you have the president of the united states talking about executing drug dealers. chris hayes, with thank you so much for being with us. again, of course, a colony and a nation, we greatly appreciate

it. also, reverend al, great talking to you as always. and ed rendell. can't wait to talk to you after the relates come let's bring in austin, texas, the mayor of london, sadik khan. giving an address at the southwest by southwest conference. he delivers his keynote speech later today. if i understand correctly, mr. mayor, you, like me, are a liverpool fan and if that is, in fact, the case, i expect at least half of your remarks to cover the absolutely horrific officiating and the man u match this past weekend. >> morning, joe. it's an outrage. serious questions have to be asked about that referee. i always use the words long

suffering before describing myself as a liverpool fan because you and i grew up on the glory days where our team did so well but it's always embarrassing as the mayor of london. we have five premier league teams. explaining that i support liverpool. you will know, joe, you can change your spouse, you can change your job, you can change where you live. you don't change who you support. >> no, you certainly don't. chances are good, mr. mayor, we may meet up in london in early april when liverpool actually goes to stamford bridge and plays chelsea. be very interesting to see you in stamford bridge cheering for liverpool. so tell us by south by southwest. and what is your message to everybody there and to america? >> well, i'm really excited to be here in austin at south by southwest. this is a really important tech

conference that takes place every year. where the tech giants come as well. they'll be a number of things of course for investment in london. but also explaining that in my view i think politicians and policymakers have vacating the field when it comes to the tech revolution taking place around us. social media platforms have been a source of massive, massive benefit and good. we use it to keep in touch with our loved ones. to keep in contact with friends. to access information. and it's great. but actually what we've seen in the recent past is social media being used to incite hatred, to spread fake information, allegations of interfering with elections. and i think what needs to happen is the tech companies have got to realize they have a social responsibility to make sure they're not amplifying messages of hate. if they don't, i'm afraid they'll have more of the

regulation we've seen in countries like germany. where basically if the social media companies are used as a platform to have fake news or have hate language and don't put it down within 24 hours, they have massive, massive fines. i think us politicians need to have a conversation with the social media company and say, you know what, you've got a responsibility. you've got a responsibility to bring people together rather than dividing them. >> right. and of course here in the united states, over 50% of americans have facebook as their primary nice source. if fake news is spreading around on facebook and they don't regulate that, that actually is very damaging to an educated electorate. let me ask you about how you and the people of london and the people of britain are now coming to terms with donald trump as president of the united states. obviously a lot of people in britain as well as in america

were concerned when he -- he retweet retweeted pro-fascist videos from a british radical party. is there more of an understanding that congress and members of his cabinet are actually more mainstream than donald trump himself and that there still are places we can work together with a special relationship? >> absolutely. the context is i don't think you appreciate how much americans and america are loved and appreciated. not just in london and uk but around the world. you're a beacon of liberty. we enjoy your music, your film, your culture. the innovation taking place with the tech giants. one of the consequences of having a special relationship is very similar to being best friends. when you have a best friend, of course you stand shoulder to shoulder with them in times of

adversity. they're your closest ally. you are closest together on big issues. one of the consequences of having a best friend is when you disagree with them, you got to call them out and say, you know what, i think you're wrong here. and the relationship with a best friend is different to the relationship with an acquaintance or with a long distance friend who you see infrequently. we're under no illusion that your president doesn't speak for all americans. many, many americans, the people on a daily basis in london, businesspeople, tourist, student, those who are artists, and many, many others, don't necessarily agree with the views of your president. why would they? in a healthy democracy, you'll always get people who disagree with the winning candidate. i think the concern is this, though, joe. one of the reasons we have a special relationship are our common values and the things we believe in. people in the developing world, people in all parts of the world, look to you as a country for inspiration, for leadership.

and as somebody who loves america, i think -- i worry about the perception people will have over your great country because of the things your president may have tweeted or said elsewhere. >> all right, mr. mayor, thank you so much for being with us. good luck in austin, texas. it's a great town. let's hope liverpool has a good draw in the champions league. thanks for being with us. we'll be back here in two minutes. hands go here... feet go here... you know what goes here... and your approval rating... goes here. test drive the ztrak z540r at your john deere dealer and learn why it's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast.

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al say to friends, did you see my speech last night? yes. at first, i have to say, how good was i? how good? and they say good.

>> and that's what he does. that's what he'll always do. he's out there, mike, trying to help a candidate, and that's what he would always do. after debates, after everything. pick up the phone, go, how great was? i so how was the president on saturday night? >> saturday night we saw the president who he was. all about him. he's a solo act. saconne running for congress is an appendage. he did all this on the weekend prior to the anniversary, as we alluded to earlier, march 12, 1933, the first roosevelt fireside chat which was about leadership. >> yes. noah. >> big story on nbcnews.com right now about alleging qatari information regarding -- jared kushner's relationship with the uae that possibly influenced

trump to endorse the blockade of qatar by saudi arabian military. it's an interesting story. >> fascinating. heidi, final thoughts? >> joe, regardless of what happens tomorrow in pennsylvania, it is part of a national trend. we've seen from kansas to south carolina to virginia and alabama, which is the democrats are vastly outperforming their past performance. with money. outraising his opponent. and so are democrats a cross the country. >> in big, big -- in a big, big way, especially in pennsylvania '18. all right, thank you guys so much for being with us. thank you at home for watching. greatly appreciate it. we'll see you tomorrow. for now, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. stephanie. >> thanks so much, joe. good morning, everyone. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover on this monday. starting with armed with a plan. the white house takes its first step towards arming teachers while backing away from previous calls to raise the age