two firms. that does it for me. thanks for watching our show. i'll be back here tomorrow night, 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. defenseless. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in an unsettled washington. facing dangers on multiple fronts, president trump seems desperate enough to go it alone. consider what he is up against now. first and foremost, there is the special counsel's russia probe which shows signs of escalating. charges have already been filed against the president's close associates michael flynn and paul manafort. we could see indictments against members of the president's own family or even the president himself. then there are the three lawsuits involving the president that were recently filed by stormy daniels, by karen mcdougal and summer zervos, each

with their own lawyers. there is the looming threat of impeachment proceedings which grows by the day by the likelihood of a democratic house of representatives. but while the president's legal jeopardy is drawing his legal team as we're seeing is shrinking. after the announcement last week of two additions to the president's defense team for the russia probe, we're now learning that near joseph digenova nor his wife victoria toensing will be taking the job. jay sekulow said the president is disappointed that conflicts prevent joe digenova and victoria toensing from joining the president's special counsel legal team. however, those conflicts do not prevent them from assisting the president in other legal matters. while this follows the news last week, trump's lead attorney john dowd resigned and reports he had butted heads with his president. also after reports ted olson turned down an offer to represent the president as did

impeach lawyer. despite all this, trump reverted to his bragging. many lawyers and top law firms want to represent me in the russian case. don't believe the fake news narrative that it is hard to find a lawyer who wants to take this on. fame and fortune will never be turned down by a lawyer, though some are conflicted. the problem is that a new lawyer or law firm will take months to get up to speed. if for no other reason than they can bill more. that's all trump talking, which is unfair to our great country. more trump. and i'm very happy with my existing team. besides, there was no collusion with russia except by crooked hillary and the dems. trump's willingness to go it alone is now par for the course. for guy who famously said this of himself at the republican national convention -- >> nobody knows the system better than me. which is why i alone can fix it.

>> joining me right now is paul butler, a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. susan page is washington bureau chief for usa today. and jonathan swan is national politico reporter. paul have, you ever had a client who put his chin out like this? the mussolini kind of chin he does, i can do it better than you, i know what i'm doing. >> like most d.c. lawyers, i would decline a client like that. the president is this atrocious combination of having really bad judgment and not being willing to listen to people who could guide him through this morass that he is in. he is lawyering down when he needs to be lawyering up. he's got all these huge decisions to make about whether to cooperate or whether to go in for an interview. any lawyer worth your salt will say mr. president, don't do that. he apparently wants to. and that's why he fire 1 of the few competent lawyers that he has. >> he faces so much exposure, a word you guys use, on every front. his children are exposed. at least two of his sons, one son-in-law.

that's three people in the family could all be indicted. he has three top guy, papadopoulos, manafort and flynn all out there talking. he has three women throughout. they look like pretty good cases against him, and i'm not sure he is exposed in terms of criminal action. maybe he is. but that's a lot of lawyering. >> and guess what? those other folks have really good lawyers. jared kushner, michael flynn, papadopoulos, they're all well represented. at some point, mueller is going to be about let's make a deal. and if trump, if his lawyer doesn't have a seat at the table, a very competent lawyer, then he is not in good shape. >> susan, this is endemic for trump. i can do it. he is like mighty joe younger something from movies. i can do anything, i'm beating my chest. i can do anything. i'm better than anybody i know. i'm better than anybodiy hire. i don't need a smart lawyer. but he did try to get ted olson, maybe one of the smartest lawyers ever. >> not only did he turn it down,

but he told our friend david corn no other lawyers in washington could recommend me to the trump team because i would like to work for him. the trump administration has been a full employment project for lawyers in washington because there are so many investigations touching so many people. and it's really extraordinary that the president of the united states, who has a personal fortune, seems to be unable to land the bigger, better names. >> well, jonathan, this is a hell of a story. because we have a president here who does face hell. i mean, a normal person wouldn't be able to sleep. and here is this guy that is hell facing him from every direction. he seems calm. how do you explain that? you're a trumpohphile. >> this is a man who spent his whole life in some form of litigation or another. so it's not unusual. i remember one trump official telling me that after he fired james comey and the whole world is blowing up around him, trump smiles and says, you know, this is going to be great. they're all going to thank me.

it's going to be fantastic. he is evil. he is terrible guy, blah, blah, blah. and he just had this sense of calm about him. so it doesn't surprise me. >> who is the evil guy, comey? >> yeah, comey. trump has spent literally if you go through his adult life, he in some form of litigation or another. so he is used to be surrounding by lawyers. and yes, he has a bad reputation as a client. he has a reputation for being slow to pay bills and for being impetuous. >> yeah. >> and so, yes, they're not seek him out as a client. >> okay. let's get back to where i'm stronger, psychobabble. this is holy week, all right. and every one of our religions, it's important this week coming up. and everybody is talking about trump. everybody i talked to. i can't get in a car, i can't bump into anybody, all they want to do is talk about trump. i've never seen them such obsessed. he must like this. i think nixon in a weird part of his psyche, in the midst of his impeachment liked it. i know he didn't like it

afterwards because he realized what had happened and was ashamed of it, unlike trump will never be ashamed of anything. but i get that he likes the action, like you were saying. he loves all this lawyering. he's got seven lawyers to talk to. he has us coming after him. he turns on the tube, we're coming at him. it's action. >> the difference is the president is in danger of going to prison. >> is he? tell me that part. >> again, if he is impeached, that the congressional remedy. that's the political remedy under the constitution. the president can be indicted after he leaves office. >> that's not been tested yet. >> it hasn't been tested after office. i don't think there is much a question after office he could be indicted for conduct. the political remedy is impeachment. and that's difference between -- >> by gerry ford and nixon was important? >> that's the difference between all the civil lawsuits back in the day. and now, now the president has 17 of the country's best prosecutors, a whole team of fbi agents, which remains the best law enforcement agency in the world looking at everything that he has ever done, including his

real estate transactions, his possible collusion with russia and obstruction of justice. and now he has to deal with possible campaign fraud with regard to his bogus payment. >> when he spent $130,000 contributing to his campaign to keep him out of hot water. >> the other thing is he has had a legal strategy which worked for him as a business executive, which is defy, sue, counter sue. you have deeper pockets than the people you're going up against. that's what we found in a usa today project we did before the election. that doesn't work when your opponent is the fbi and your opponent is the special counsel because their pockets are even deeper than yours are, and they're going to give up just because you're persistent. >> he did try to get a top lawyer. ted olson passed on an opportunity to represent the president. he said today that this white house is in turmoil. here is ted olson. >> from your experience in government, we have seen government by twitter. we've seen the secretary of state being notified of his official firing on twitter.

the cabinet shake-up, bringing in john bolton. how does this affect the way that government handles top priorities, the turnover that we've seen has been unprecedented. >> well, i think everybody would agree, this is turmoil as chaos and confusion, and it's not good for anything. we always believed that there should be an orderly process. and of course government is not clean or orderly ever. but this seems to be beyond normal bounds. >> one of the best lawyers ever. this guy won the case in florida against bush v gore. he won the presidency and from the supreme court, i forget how he got it. and he won the wonderful case for marriage equality with david boies. he is a hell of a lawyer. >> and he eloquently laid out his case for why he will probably never join the trump legal team. you have to -- if you are a lawyer who represents trump, you

have to accept a reality where your client will not take your advice, he will tweet impetuously, and he may undercut himself on a daily basis. and there isn't a whole conga line of lawyers waiting to fill these roles. there just isn't. >> i love the conga line. trump's new view that he alone can handle the many challenges he faces also extends into the white house. frustrated with general john kelly, nbc news reported just last week that trump was considering eliminating the job of chief of staff altogether. trump has mused -- he never muses -- about running the west wing as he did his business empire as his own chief of staff. yesterday corey lewandowski said he thinks the president could fill that role himself. he is unbelievable, this corey guy. >> that's a scenario that could very well play out. he is the decision-makinger, and he loves to have all the information brought to him. i see him as the hub with the number of spokes coming out. and candidly, i'm not advocating

for gerald kelly to stay. but if he were to go, i don't think there is one person who is the chosen one to step in and fill that role. so i could see a scenario where the president is giving instructions to a small core group of individuals who are then implementing on his behalf. >> kool aid, kool aid, tastes great! anyway, speaking of the chaos in the white house, "the new york times" reported just a few moments ago that president trump has stayed in touch with rob porter, the former white house staff secretary after allegations of abuse from two former wives. he hopes mr. porter returns to work in the west wing. what do you make of that? >> he obviously doesn't care about national security. >> or publicity. >> mr. porter is not able to get a security clearance. again, this is about national security. >> wasn't he skorted from the building? >> yes, with armed guards. that's the way it works. >> you're walking out with your box and your stuff, whatever, your rolodex or whatever. susan, this is desperate stuff.

>> i think it's extraordinary. i can't imagine that this would happen. >> somebody else. go ahead. >> i think the idea of him coming back in the wake of accusations of violence against two of his ex-wives would be extraordinary. >> yeah, you're so reserved. it's more than that. let me ask you about this. jimmy carter thing. let's watch now when jimmy carter -- jimmy carter got into this because he was pushing a book called "faith" which we would hope to talk with him at some point. jimmy carter talked this. you interviewed him, susan, about former president carter for usa today. and you asked him how the stormy daniels case reflects on the moral values of this -- hitting the side of the barn with a beach ball. anyway, i think the 2018 election also see the adverse effect of the revelation of his immorality. this is carter talking, and his violation of his sacred oath before god to be loyal to his wife. well, you ask jimmy carter about infidelity, it's unbelievable.

were you surprised by the answer? him and trump, what a duo. >> what a difference. he has also said he hopes trump isn't impeached. he hopes trump is successful in north korea. >> is that the president's club talking? >> but clearly on this issue there is no president's club because his oath before god, he could hardly have been more critical of president trump on this. >> we're coming up to talk with this, paul. tell me this stormy case. we're going to talk about this in the next segment. i think about a millions watched with anderson cooper. what do you make of this threat to him. >> the threat is very hard to prove, first of all. it's some anonymous person that happened years ago. it's not evident how it's directly tied with the issue of controversy now, which is this hush money, this agreement that the president's lawyer paid to try to keep the case out of the news. again, i think the most salient feature is this. possible not obstruction of justice, but again trying to

keep this story out of the news. and it's consistent with the president's pattern of not revealing whose giving him money to help him get elected. he got apparently campaign money in the form of $130,000. that's got to be reported. if it's not reported, it's a criminal case. >> could only give 2700 in a cycle. >> to say that the lawyer did it? give me a break. well lawyers don't pay $130,000 to our clients, i'm sorry. >> usually the money goes the other way. >> that's the way it's supposed to be. >> paul, thank you for your expertise, susan page and jonathan swan for your listening to trump, listening to the guy, figuring him out. figuring him out. coming up, stormy speaks. as i said, the adult film star details the relationship she says she had with donald trump and said she took hush money because she felt threatened, physically, apparently. this as her lawyer says there is more evidence to come. avenatti is on the run here -- i mean on the chase. that's coming up next. plus, the united states is actually fighting back now after moscow poisoned a russian ex-spy

on british soil. this helps putin become much more cavalier don't you think on the world stage? and the passion and energy of people's march for our lives, students in the anti-gun movement are being smeared by guess who? the nra. the gun lobby and their allies on the right are attacking the kids. finally, let my finish tonight with what i saw on saturday not too far from here. this is "hardball," where the action is. ♪ next chapter ♪

how'd i get this yard? behind pete's great looking yard, is his secret weapon... the scotts turf builder program. all it takes is 4 feedings, with a scotts solution for every season. it's that easy. this is a scotts yard. well, there is more bad news today for republicans who hope to control or keep control of the house of representatives this november. pennsylvania republican congressman ryan castell has announced he will not seek reelection this fall, becoming the 23rd house republican to quit. castell, whose district includes parts of suburban philadelphia had faced a difficult reelection campaign given pennsylvania's new congressional map. following his announcement, cook political report moved the race

for that district from toss-up to likely democrat pickup. and last night congressman costel talked about the difficulty of governing in the age of trump. >> we're talking about porn stars and the president rather than about tax policy or what we need to get done by the end of the year or what should have been in the omnibus. i have a bill to bring back cost sharing reductions and create a reinsurance plan for two years which will reduce health insurance costs for nine million americans who don't get a subsidy, wasn't included in the omni. and it's very difficult for me to get that message out because we're talking about stormy daniels or it was mccabe. before that it was rex tillerson and where he heard the news that he was fired. and just one thing after another. it is deeply frustrating. i certainly say that. >> hard to argue with that. anyway, if republicans were hoping for a break in the trump news cycle, it's not happening. stormy daniels is now speaking out. and her lawyer says there is more evidence to come. we'll talk about that in a minute. you're watching "hardball."

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welcome back to "hardball." 22 million people tuned in last night to watch stormy daniels break her silence on "60 minutes" about an alleged sexual relationship with donald trump. 22 million. it was the highest rated broadcast for that show in almost a decade. in one of the most striking claims, daniels says she was threatened physically actually in 2011 not to go public with her story. >> i was in a parking lot going to a fitness class with my infant daughter. i was taking the seats facing backwards in the back seat, diaper bag, you know, getting all the stuff out. and guy walked up on me and said leave trump alone, forget the story. and then he leaned around and looked at my daughter. and said a beautiful little girl. it would be a shame if something happened to her mom. and then he was gone. >> you took it as a direct threat? >> absolutely. >> the threat and the concern for her safety she said were

part of the reasons she signed to nondisclosure agreement. michael cohen has denied any involvement in the alleged threat. daniels' attorney also said cohen did not make that 2011 threat. publicly, the president has remained definitely silent when it comes to stormy daniels. the white house has denied allegations of the affair as well as having to do with any threat. here they are. >> well, the president doesn't believe that any of the claims that ms. daniels made last night in the interview are accurate. he just doesn't believe that there is nothing to corroborate her claim. >> privately, according to "the wall street journal," the president has discussed with advisers whether he should publicly fight the allegations on twitter or elsewhere. his advisers have told him there is no sign of allegations that are hurting him with voters and have warned him that it would look inappropriate for the president to engage in a public spat with among others a former porn star. well, late today stormy daniels herself ramped up her legal battle against the president and his personal attorney.

daniels amended her existing lawsuit against donald trump adding cohen as a defendant in the case. here is her lawyer late this afternoon. >> we have add an allegation or claim of defamation against mr. cohen for his previous denials of the affair, basically calling my client a liar. so we're going to put those claims to the test. and we're going to prove that in fact my client is telling the truth. and it is mr. cohen who has misled the american people. >> for more i'm joined by msnbc legal analyst katie fang and an msnbc news contributor. i want you each in turn to give me a power statement on what happened last night. 20 some million people watched "60 minutes." what difference will that many moments with anderson cooper mean to this case? katie? >> so the credibility of stormy daniels has always been an issue. and her "60 minutes" interview with anderson cooper by all accounts was well received. whether you believe every single

factual detail she set forth last night in its limited fashion, you have to admit she came across credible. she said, chris, she only had sexual relations with him one time. she could have made it up. she could have said it was long-term relation. she was honest in what she thought was going get out of that, quote, relationship. it's going to be a huge plus for her when she goes to court and definitely in the court of public opinion. >> sam, your thoughts about just the impact of powerful television. an enormous number of people watch that and had a reaction. >> i actually -- i don't want the downplay too much. but i do think to a certain degree, people's perception of donald trump on this issue are largely baked in. people know that he has a fairly poor, if not atrocious history maritally and with women. people don't expect him to be a beacon of moral fortitude. i think that the story itself, the details in last night's

broadcast weren't revealer to terms of the since we had heard them before now. i don't think it's going to actually turn votes. i think what it does presage, though, which i think is important, is do we get to a place where the actual physical evidence that the legal team for stormy daniels says it has, do we get to place where that becomes public. and if we do get to that place, then it gets away from this sort of he said/she said story. although i think there is fairly substantial amount of evidence to corroborate her claims. it's more problematic for trump. it's not just his treatment of women, he is lying about women, it's a direct lie and a cover-up story. >> i thought, katie, let me ask your reaction to this. i thought two things add credibility to her and i had one problem with what she said. i thought she had a lot of credibility when she said i'm no victim. this is consensual. i'm not a victim here. the sexual part. hey, i'm another adult.

fair enough. she wasn't looking to be a victim or anything in that sense, in that instance. she also said when she got into this cabin or whatever it is, place behind -- >> the bungalow. >> the bungalow, if you will, she said she basically felt she had to be intimate with him just because she walked in. it didn't make her sound too strong, but it was very honest people being in situations. i thought that was very honest. where i wonder is the case being brought by her attorney. if the physical threat in 2011 was made at the car in very -- to me very authentic way. she described wit the baby seat backwards and carrying all the baby stuff. i felt it happened. why didn't she then go out and try to sell the story twice before 2016? in other words, if she was physically threatened, why didn't she go ahead and try to sell it twice before she signed that agreement? i'm just wondering how that will look in front of a jury. >> that's big problem, because a lot of people like to quickly say well, why didn't you call the police? why didn't you report this to

the authorities? she said she was too scared to do. so but remember, chris, timing is everything. >> but she tried to sell the story twice. she tried to sell the story twice after that. that's what brings in the question was it a physical description, a bs threat? she obviously described it in a very frightening way. i think the jury might buy it was a threat. but why did you go ahead, not call the police but try to sell the story twice more. that's all. >> remember, the timing of it, chris, she was threatened after it became news and in the public to somebody like michael cohen that she was interested in having the story told. so back in 2011, trump was flirting with the idea of running for president of the united states in 2012. >> yeah. >> and that was a danger to him. so now we fast forward a number of years to 2016. he's now a serious viable candidate. and then once again, she's out there with the story. and so that's when you end up getting this nda signed. remember, she also was attacked with her credibility last night in terms of the fact that she signed denial statements before

she filed the lawsuit with michael avenatti. chris, here is the thing. sometimes we get bad legal advice. keith davidson who represented her through this entire transaction was also the lawyer for karen mcdougal. karen mcdougal says that keith davidson was in cahoots with michael cohen. so listen, that's a serious common denominator that is a flaw for the trump defense. if michael cohen was in cahoots with the lawyers for both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, there is a huge smoking gun issue right there. that. >> he was in cahoots, yeah. and more troubling news from president trump's legal team. sam stein is reporting, there he is, in the daily beast today that two more high-powered attorneys have had to turn down president trump. candidate dan webb confirmed that trump reached out to them about representing. how come he is too hot to handle? sam? >> well, the official line is that there is conflicts of interest. and i'm sure there are, because everyone seems to be entangled in some sort of legal trouble relating to this white house. but the unofficial line, if you

talk to any lawyers in this town is that no one wants to see their reputation sullied by their association with this administration. keep in mind early on in the administration, there were some high profile attorneys that did take on trump, trump family members, trump assistants as clients. and then during the course of this russia investigation, revelations were made about disclosures that made those lawyers essentially look professionally bad. and so in these white collar legal circles here in washington, d.c., there are a lot of people who simply don't want to be associated with what is a legal mess right behind me. >> katie, why didn't he just throw in the towel and say to stormy daniels, just say ms. daniels, i think we made a bad deal. i agree with you. give me back the 130 and i'll release you from any commitment to not talk about this. go ahead keep talking. i want my money back. and say i still say it didn't happen. but i'm not going to fight this anymore and keep letting you get political and pr traction out of this.

>> so inexplicably, he keeps doubling down, quadrupling down for no reason whatsoever. the base we've always talked about, chris that. >> don't care. people tell me why, do we care about this? >> i agree. >> we knew we weren't electing a saint. but here is the thing, though. his supporters do. if it involves campaign violations which is more detail by avenatti on behalf of stormy daniels, if it involves threats of physical harm, the busting of kneecaps. there is recentfully the media we're hearing that back in 2009 a lawyer who was adverse to trump got a phone call from a guy named carmine who says he knows where the guy lives and he knows that the guy has wife and kids. and if he keeps [ bleep ]ing with trump, they're going to come find him. when you hear stuff like that, that's a serious threat to your base. if you are wanting to have the perfect or the best kind of optic as a politician, who is going to want to have that? and even more importantly from a legal standpoint, you lose credibility before a judge, a jury or an arbitrator if you're running around threatening

people to make them sign agreements. >> sam, last thought. because this is amazing conversation. i think trump has made a concordot with the right. he says he is against abortion rights. even punishing women to show how feverish is he on this issue, to give credit. . then he got on the bush with billy bush and talked about his attitude towards women which was awful. it seems like they said one-on-one in a microsense you be a bad guy. but in a macro sense, you're on our side of the abortion issue. so we'll take you. it seems like that's the concord da, that's the deal. and all this talk we do about stormy daniels doesn't change that deal, political deal. >> you're 100% correct. the only heresy that he could commit, the only heresy go woule if he were to appoint a pro-choice judge that would be the line to cross. and, you know, in some ways i'm refreshed by how transactional it is. because it does pull back the curtain a little bit on all the

moral righteousness of the past decade or so. it really was -- it was really just a political play. and you can imagine. you do this all the time. but really, just take a second and imagine if president obama had been credibly accused by a porn star of having an affair right after the birth of his child, what the people on the religious right would be saying about that. today we didn't get a single press release from any of these groups based off the stormy daniels interview. that tells you everything. >> there are religious ambulances to come collecting. unbelievable. it is so telling. i hope everybody pays attention to what's going on here. left and right. the differences they show when it comes to the other side. thank you, katie fang. we've been great. thank you, sam always. >> sure. >> up next, the united states announced it will expel 60 russian agents on the chemical agent. is president trump finally starting to get tough when it comes to the russkis?

this is "hardball," where the action. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. hello. let's go for a ride on a peloton. let's go grab a couple thousand friends and chase each other up a hill. let's go make a personal best, then beat it with your personal better than best. let's go bring the world's best instructors right to you. better yet, let's go bring the entire new york studio - live. let's go anytime, anywhere, with anyone who's willing. and let's go do it all right here. ready to go? peloton. what would our founding fathers

want us to do about this president? i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote

the constitution here in philadelphia, they had just repelled an invading foreign power. so they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack. the justice department just indicted 13 russians for sabotaging our elections. an electronic attack on america that the chief investigator called "warfare". so what did this president do? nothing. and is he doing anything to prevent a future attack? the head of the fbi says no. this president has failed his most important responsibility- protecting our country. the first question is: why? what is in his and his family's business dealings with russia that he is so determined to hide, that he'd betray our country? and the second question is: why is he still president? join us today. we have to do something.

back to "hardball." the trump administration today called for the expulsion of 60 russian diplomats, probably spice identified by officials as intelligence officers. the u.s. also will close russia's consulate out in seattle. didn't know they had one. the actions are in response to the poison of an ex-russian spy living in britain and his daughter. british and u.s. officials have blamed the attack on the kremlin, though russia of course has denied it. the unusually harsh move by the

white house now earned praise from even some democrats. for example, mark warner of virginia, the ranking democrat in the senate intelligence committee tweeted the administration has done the right thing in supporting our british allies. for more i'm joined by "washington post" columnist and expert on all spooking, david ignatius. why do they use phrases like "the white house ordered this" rather than say president trump said this. is he trying to separate himself, plausible deniability and keep his relationship copacetic with putin? >> the answer is i don't know. but if he is trying to preserve space so that he can communicate with president putin down the road, i'm not so sure that's a bad idea. >> why do you think he moved now after all these months of provocations by the russians, including what they did in 2016? >> i think, chris, the answer is simple. the british appealed passionately to the united states. they appealed to every part of the american government, you need to stand with us. we feel that we're under attack. and i think that was what tipped the balance here. the british were successful in

getting the u.s. finally to move decisively. and to get 16 european nations to move with them. just go down the list. france, germany, sweden, all of europe, poland is standing with britain as is the united states. and i think it's -- >> you know more about -- i've been to parties in your honor where i've seen the number of spy there's. so i know how many you know. and i'm serious. they're all there. what about -- i saw "bridge of spies" a fantastic spielberg movie. what i noticed is the honor in prisoner exchanges. once you decided to exchange prisoners, you let the other person live over in the other country. it wasn't make sense to knock them off. they traded somebody, a russian spy allowed to go to britain and freedom and life and then they kill them. does this break the rules? >> this is a violation of what are usually thought to be the rules of trade craft, as you say. these exchanges have happened many times over the years. one reaction i had after this

attempt to kill skripal, one is anna leeb man should watch her back. >> has trump broken whatever bond head with vladimir? >> he did get tougher today. i think he had to be talked into it, but he did it. >> who is that? >> who talked him into that? >> mad dog mattis. >> i think mattis was behind it. i think pompeo agreed with it. certainly the incoming national security adviser john bolton would have thought this was a good idea. but the key here as it was explained to me today, the key is what britain said. this is still our closest ally. and britain said you must do this. and in the end, the administration did it. >> is bolton a good leaker? you guys are all nice about it. ever since bolton has been announced, i have never said this, oh, i talked to him. is he a leaker?

>> he has never leaked a word to me. i have no idea if he a s a good leaker. but there has been a lot of negative stuff said about bolton. but he is new on the job. the idea that trump has a new team after a team that in many ways was dysfunctional. in tillerson and mcmaster, fine people. but they were not an effective team. >> i guess tillerson is going to be chancellor of the university of texas. that's not a bad thing. >> not a bad thing to do. especially if you're texan. >> thank you, david. the longhorns. up next, after leading hundreds of thousands of protests this weekend, the parkland shooting survivors, look at that. i love that picture in washington. that's pennsylvania avenue of all those young people. they're now being demonized, these young people. the nra and their allies on the far right are running a smear campaign against these teenagers. you're watching "hardball." without starting from scratch. it brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place.

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welcome back to "hardball."

hundreds of thousands of students protested here in washington, maigt maybe 800,000 at marches across the country on saturday calling for action on gun safety, all those kids. one of the most powerful moments is when parkland survivor emma gonzalez stood in silence marking the length of time it took for the shooter down there at that high school to carry out his rampage. >> since the time that i came out here, it has been six minutes and 20 seconds. the shooter has ceased shooting and will soon abandon his rifle, blend in with the students as they escape and walk free for an hour before arrest. fight for your lives before it's someone else's job. >> wow. well, since then, gonzalez has become the focus of a smear campaign by some on the right. in one instance, an online photo, there it is, has gonzalez in a doctored picture there that

shows her ripping apart a gun range target. that's the original picture. in the doctored version shows gonzalez ripping apart a copy of the u.s. constitution. isn't that cute? anyway, the nra remained conspicuously silent during saturday's march. however, it released a video in advance called "a march for their lies". >> to all the kids from parkland getting ready to use your first amendment at everyone else's second amendment at your march on saturday, i wish a hero like blaine had been at marjory stoneman douglas high school last month because your classmates would still be alive and no one would know your names. because the media would have completely and utterly ignored your story you. want the save innocent lives? take the millions of dollars going to this carnival of a march and hire armed guards in schools all over this country. but then these kids would have to shrink from the spotlight and go back to their homework." >> speak of acting, i can tell that gentleman there is reading off to his left. he is reading the words. nothing wrong with that. i'm doing it right now. but don't tell me this is

spontaneous. perhaps most outrageous of all were comments made by former senator rick santorum who gave his suggestion on how the students could have better spent their time. that's coming up next with the "hardball" round table. your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... commanded armies... yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com

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discussion than the discussion that's going on right now. how about kids instead of looking to someone else to solve their problem do something about maybe taking cpr classes or trying to deal with -- >> wow. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was former republican senator rick santorum suggesting student activists would be better learning cpr than protesting gun violence. you actually could do both. it's part of the right wing smear campaign of march for our lives. elrod is a former director of strategic communication hillary clinton's campaign. you gene robinson. everybody watching this show damn well knows it. i just wonder why -- i said this about trump. let it go. everybody believes stormy. let it go. say it didn't happen, let her $100,000 back. i don't understand why you n this case you smear the kids who everybody likes. >> there is no way they should

do this from any public relations standpoint or indeed human standpoint. the standpoint of being a human being. they should not. >> the girl was so emotionally caught up in this thing. >> you know, the kids have struck a nerve at the nra, and they're sort of stricken with a fear that you don't see very often. it looks like fear. it's like reaction to fear, like they're going get somewhere. >> andrea, i didn't have any problem with the cuban emblem here, as long as it wasn't castro. it was the old-time cuban flag. of course that's their country of origin, their heritage. what is wrong with that? >> there is nothing wrong with that. the train has left the station, and a lot of these guy like rick santorum and frankly the nra as an organization are living in the stone ages. >> why do you think he thought of cpr? >> i don't know. i don't know. i think he was somehow trying to play back to a base that is slowly dying off. people want background checks. 90% of americans want background checks and 80% of americans want

stronger gun laws. >> i thought he was planning in running in pennsylvania again. >> you know, chris, as the republican sitting up here. >> be republican. >> well, i want to be republican in this one way. first of all, rick santorum used to be a rising star as you know. >> i think he is great in terms of his oratory was great. not great politically. but his ortary was great. >> when he lost his senate race, he has been rambling around, trying to find his way. that clip of him shows the current state of the republican party. i've been saying this for 20 years that this day would come where there there was this complete disconnect where the country was one place and the old men of the gop, that's why -- >> he's not that old. >> he is. he is out of touch with these young people who have stood up and put this democracy to the test. >> i think he has never gotten over his debate with bob casey when bob casey reduced the size of that ring so much that he couldn't show off his speaking ability, right? he wanted to give an or ration and bobby cut him down to 30 seconds every time, wouldn't let them hymn talk.

>> the gop cannot continue down this path. >> let's talk politics. you're a senator for pennsylvania. you're pat toomey. you're bobby casey. as you say, old guy. how do you deal with this? do you go back home and say okay, we'll do background checks. when are they going to get serious about the fact that too many semiautomatic rifles throughout? >> all the polling shows across the board, all of it, that the vast majority of americans want some form of gun control, background checks, age telemetries. it's there. >> one thing i liked besides everything else i liked, the inner city thing. they married. >> yes, right. gene? >> that was smart because that's life today, right? in school shootings in white suburbs, it's not the only kind of gun violence we have. >> 5,000 dead kids in their teenage years in chicago since 2016. >> exactly. what all those shootings have in common is they are shootings with guns.

and guns are finding their way into the hands of often kids. and so what's that about? >> 16,000 go to the emergency rooms in chicago since 12 years ago. the numbers are -- that kid who brought those numbers. i will never forget those numbers. >> but why aren't we talking about that? you did. >> give me a break. >> did i do bad? >> up next, tell me something i don't know. somebody just did. you're watching "hardball." because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people. and is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who've have had no prior treatment with 12 weeks. certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. before starting harvoni, your doctor will test to see if you've ever had hepatitis b,

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but yesterday on sunday zuckerberg takes out full-page ads in major newspapers. >> isn't it nice? >> and apologized for the cambridge analytica. today we learned some phone users who doan loaded facebook light or phone messenger have had their phone calls tracked. the meta from their phone call tracked because of some little thing they agreed to. >> it's big brother. >> zuckerberg has a long way to go. >> thank you. when we return, what i saw on saturday not too far from here. you're watching "hardball." you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

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let me finish tonight with what i saw on saturday. actually, not too far from here. i was on the air covering the march for our lives. and thanks to the way msnbc covered the march, i was able to hear all the speeches. and what grabbed me and held fairly consistently throughout the day was its purity. look at it. the young people who spoke talked about one topic, safety in schools. safety from guns. it's what powered the day both in real-time and perhaps down the road. there wasn't a lot of piggybackers out there, people with political causes who tried leaping on the backs of the march for our lives. i didn't pass by any card tables of people pushing literature from old line or new line looking for an audience. i didn't hear any speakers on the stage using their moment in the sun to push something outside the cause itself. again, i give credit to the

purity of the organization, the attendees all for the purity of the day itself. i remember a day somewhat like this for more than half a century ago. it was the historic march on the pentagon of october 1967. what the two events shared was an optimism. and back then it was the hope that the big demonstration against the war in vietnam two years after u.s. combat troops were sent into the fighting would have an effect. it didn't. not really. within months, the military high command would be asking for 200,000 more troops on top of the 500,000 already in vietnam. it would be six more years until the u.s. announced its departure from the war. each one of those years adding to the bitterness of those opposed to johnson's and later nixon's policies. but i will always recall the optimism of that early protest against vietnam. it was in my mind on saturday as i saw the same optimism in the faces of those hoping to end this country's fidelity to gun power. let's hope the young people of saturday are not moved to bitterness by the same putting off of action on gun safety. let's hope that gun safety movement does not have to

descend to the bitterness of the latter anti-vietnam war campaign. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> did he by chance watch the interview last night? did you ask him than? >> one day after she broke her silence -- >> he is like wow, you, you are special. you remind me of my daughter. >> stormy daniels sues the president's fixer. >> we're suing him for telling effectively a lie about my client. >> a lie. >> tonight, the president responds. his growing legal problems, and how the stormy daniels saga and the mueller probe may now overlap. then a deep dive into the vast recorded history of trump world intimidation. >> a guy walked up on me and said to me, leave trump alone, forget the story. >> and about