"hardball" starts now. silence on stormy. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. for a president who build a career on fighting back, the past few days have been surprisingly quiet for donald trump. on sunday in front of 22 million viewers, stormy daniels broke her silence about an alleged sexual relationship with trump back in 2006. white house officials have repeatedly denied those allegations according to the west though, president trump

watched the show and privately lashed out against the adult film star telling aides the allegations are a hoax and complaining to people that daniels is not the type of woman he finds attractive. the paper reports according to a republican in touch with the white house, the president convinced himself the scandal will blow over in part because for decades trump presented himself as a manhattan millionaire playboy. nbc news reported that several aides urged the president who remain quiet because the story doesn't seem -- doesn't rise to the level of warranting a presidential response. in the past, however, president trump relished the idea of punching back against any perceived sleight. take a look at this. >> i noticed that chuck schumer yesterday with fake tears, i'm going to ask him who was his acting coach. >> the reason why democrats only talk about the totally made up russia story is because they have no message. they can't beat us at the voting

booths. so they're trying to cheat you out of the future and the future that you want. they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story that is demeaning to all of us. >> you heard what he said yesterday, senator mccain. >> i hear it and people have to be careful because at some point, i fight back. you know, i'm being very, very nice. but at some point, i fight back. it won't be pretty. >> trump has used twitter to attack everyone from the north korean leader kim jong-un to republican senators jeff flake and bob corker to former vice president joe biden and many others in between. white house press secretary sarah sanders was asked today why the self-described counter puncher has gone unkirktly silent. >> you called him a counter puncher many times. why has he not punched back on this one? >> i didn't say he punches back

on every single topic. if he did, he would probably be addressing a lot of stories most of it you write every single minute of r of every day. he has a country to run and doing a great job with that. >> the president so far has shown restraint in public. according to west officials believe daniels account to be largely credible and could be real and lasting damage to the president. i'm joined by phil rucker, bureau chief for the "washington post." he wrote that west story we have been quoting from. michael steele form ter chairman for the rnc and mid win charles, contributor for "essence" magazine. thanks to you for joining us. phil, i'll start with you. the key right now is when it comes to trump's reaction, all we have to go on are your descriptions from your sources what is playing out behind the scenes at the white house. let me ask you a basic question. is your sense it's likely to remain that way that this will

continue to be a drama playing out behind the scenes or is it more likely we wake up tomorrow morning and here's eight tweets from trump all about this? >> i'm about 99% certain the drama will continue behind the scenes. the question is whether it becomes public at some point. there's no predicting that. certainly president trump is paying close attention to what's happening with the stormy daniels saga. he saw that "60 minutes" clip and watching coverage of it on cable news and the newspapers and other places in the media in the days since. he's been talking to friends and aides and confidantes will the situation. the question is when he decides to kind of go public and make his first comments. he has not addressed questions regarding this and we haven't seen him in public for a few days now. >> what's your sense from talking to folks? clearly in your story, you've got him saying things privately. are aides or people around him fighting to restrain him or is he giving indications this is a

fight he doesn't want either? >> he's fairly comfortable being retrained at this point. he's been convinced in his conversations with advisers that there's not going to be a real political price yet that his poll numbers are not dropping because of this, that his base remains loyal to him especially evangelical christians. that the president believes pep doesn't feel like he needs to talk about it right now. he would like for other people to be attacking stormy daniels. he likes that his press secretary today and yesterday the deputy press secretary raw shah called the allegations untrue and took a few shots from the podium at the white house at stormy daniels. i think he would like to see surrogates do more of that. >> michael steele, phil mentions evangelicals one of the largest staunchest voting blocs behind trump going back to the days of the republican primary. you've got a president who tens of millions of people watched on national television as a porn actress said she had an

extramarital tryst with him. does this potentially change anything? >> i don't think it does. those folks have sort of not just drunk the kool-aid but put the iv into the vein on trump and have been consistent on that. that gives trump the space he needs to feel the way he feels. here's the other side of that feeling. the fact is, in my view, he has not gone after stormy daniels because a, he doesn't know what she's got. if he opens up that door where he comes after her, her attitude and her lawyer's attitude clearly is really? how about this. so this pushback from other people, the press secretaries, assistant press secretaries and everyone else saying this didn't happen is not the same as trump saying it didn't happen. if trump comes out the moment he does, that changes his whole thing in relation to how michael avenatti and stormy come at the

president. so far they pushed him back on his heels a little bit here which is why he hasn't responded the way he typically does because the question of what them have, what other shoe they could drop on him still out there. >> let me get to the that the with mid win charles, our legal expert. look, i will admit no offense to the legal profession. when you get a lawyer like stormy daniels's out there, i have to wonder how much is there substance here. it's the way lawyers talk in very public cases like this. >> what should the trump people think about? >> one of the things we've seen with michael avenatti is someone playing trump's game. my mom used to tell me be careful of the games you play because other people can play it, too. sometimes they can beat you. what we've seen with michael is a good strategy. when an attorney can play defense and offense, you never know what you're going to get. i think that's one of the reasons trump hasn't done

anything. i've read the complaint. i have it right here. it's very clear the two of them agreed there's property that exists whether it's paragraphs or communications or text messages. i believe the reason why trump is being quiet, there's a real concern that this information may get out, if he starts talking. >> the range of possibilities, it's all speculation here. the potential stuff you're talking about could be embarrassing is stuff, titillating stuff here. >> of course. >> or from a legal standpoint, are there things you see that are involved? into it could be all kinds i have information. it could be photographs, communications, all kinds of things that would, believe it or not, further embarrass the president of the united states. we've all -- we can all agree that many things have already occurred that have embarrassed him. these are things that potentially could do damage to him i think. >> the tedorial board of the "wall street journal" warn that president trump "mistakes of character tend to catch up with

everyone," adding "the stormy daniels case is typical of mr. trump's prepresidential behavior inning he came with enough threats can get away with anything. this may be the cause of his down fall." meanwhile a new poll finds a majority of americans believe the women alleging affairs and believe them over the president, 63% believe the women, just 21% believe president trump. that cnn poll also shows -- this may or may not be related to all this -- also 0 shows trump's approvaling rating are still in the low 40% range, nothing to write home about but not exactly crashing here. that's the kind of thing i've been wondering about. bill clinton in the 1990s, when the monica lewinsky scandal broke it, didn't come out of nowhere for the campaign. we had heard these names, these suggestions. so it was shocking in some ways

and other ways not so much. maybe there's a strain of that here with trump, too. >> i think that's very true. in fact, i think that's one of the ports that the president rests his boatright now. we don't need to leave this particular dock because it is hipping him. the people out there are thinking about this president, so one more reason for him to be quiet. let's not disabuse them of the notion that there is -- that i can somehow get past this or that i'm a good boy or whatever. he just wants to keep quiet and do what he needs to do. and focus on other things. you know, the whole entree to the north korea issue, the of economy, all those other things are stronger points for him to help take away from the stormy daniels story line because a lot of people, as the poll says we believe the women but baked there into who trump is and he's

not going to pay a penalty point at this point. >> the that's an interesting question for phil. you have some of his advisers fearing there could be serious damage, some long-term damage from this. are there more specifics in terms of what they're saying and what they think that damage would look like? >> publicly, the white house said that these accusations are not true, that the president denies them. but privately, senior officials in the white house tell me and colleagues that they believe stormy daniels is credible, that her story is real. that this relationship did happen. and that there could 30e potentially be a political problem for the president down the road based on the hush money as it were of $130,000. there's also a danger and this is according to some political experts we talked to yesterday, if the president were to come out and dress this and lie to the person people, he could lose more credibility in that scenario.

for him to stay quiet and let his spokespeople do the talking is protecting him from that danger. >> so, so far, we haven't had that scene we had with bill clinton in january 199 where he said i did not have sexual relations with that woman. the lawyer for stormy daniels had this to say about the president believes the daniels controversy is a political hoax. watch. >> why doesn't he just tweet if in fact he claims this to be true, why doesn't he tweet she was never in his hotel room, he never had sex with her, he never knew anything about the agreement, the $130,000. he sends out the surrogate on network television to call this a hoax. it's a hoax like 9/11 and the moon landing. that's the kind of hoax it is. >> widwin charles, if you are stormy daniels' lawyer, what is the next move? wait for something from trump? what's the next move? >> wait for something trump. when i talked about offense and

defense, one of the things michael did just yesterday is to sue michael cohen for definition for saying that -- what stormy daniels said was a lie. he's just waiting. what he just did in that clip was essentially bait donald trump to say this isn't true because guess what, defamation lawsuit and the thing with the defamation lawsuit is the truth is a defense. we can't wait for discovery. we're talking depositions, documents, pictures. all kinds of stuff to prove what she is saying is credible. i just don't know anyone who would cut a check for $130,000 for absolutely no reason. if nothing happened, why write the check? >> we will see if this is something we're still talking about in a few weeks, if that sort of legal process ends up kicking in and gets dragged out. with bill clinton, he had the independent counsel that kept the story alive even when the polls showed the public was done with that. michael steele, phil rucker, thanks to all of you for joining

us. coming up, the trump administration is adding a citizen senship question to the next census. the state of california already suing. they say it is unconstitutional. either way, the stakes are big here. we're going to debate the move. that is next. >> plus, as we look ahead to the midterm elections, the republican party getting worried about keeping control of the house. they may have good reason to. a backlash may be brewing against the republican party in america's suburbs. traditionally republican territory. i'm going to break that down at the big board with my one good hand. later, a former u.s. president weighs in on what he thinks is president trump's biggest mistake yet. the "hardball" roundtable will be here with three things you might not know. this is "hardball," where the action is. [cars honking] [car accelerating] you can switch and save worry. ♪ you can switch and save hassle. [vacuuming sound] and when you switch to esurance,

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i promise. and mexico will pay for the wall. i promise. >> well, that was president trump on election eve 2016 saying that mexico would pay for the wall. these days, though it, looks like the military may have to foot the bill according to west trump is "privately pushing the u.s. military to fund construction of his signature project," suggesting the pentagon cog fund the construction citing a national security risk. sarah sanders dodged questions about that topic earlier today. >> does he mean he wants the military to pay for the border wall. >> i'm not going to get into the specifics of that. i can tell you that the wall is continuing to be built currently and we're going to keep pushing forward until it's fully completed in the way that the president feels is necessary to defend the country. >> isn't it true that mexico is not going to pay for that wall? >> i'm not going to go beyond what the president has already said. he still has plans to look at

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welcome back to "hardball." the latest battle between democrats and the trump administration is over a question, are you a united states citizen. commerce department on monday announced the upcoming 2020 census will include that question for the first time since 1950. wilbur ross said the move was in response to a justice department request the and "will permit more effective enforcement of the voting rights act which protects minority groups from discrimination at the polls." critics charge the decision is a political move designed to discourage immigrant communities from participating in the census. they argue that could lead to an undercount of the population which would have a significant impact on federal funding as well as the distribution of congressional seats. state attorneys general in new york and california have already filed lawsuits to block the move and former u.s. attorney general eric holder threatened to sue.

california attorney general xavier becerra addressed his state's lawsuit this afternoon. >> given the way this administration has attacked immigrants, you can understand why immigrant families would be afraid to fill out the census questionnaire. an undercut resulting from this decision would jeopardize vital services for all californians. it would also jeopardize our representation in government. adding a question on citizenship threatens to derail the integrity of the entire process. this latest move by the trump administration to threaten california is not just a bad idea. it's against the law. >> and for more now, i'm joined by kris wilson, republican pollster and raul reyes, an msnbc contributor.

i know you see this very differently. chris, i'm going to start with you. you just heard the attorney general there in california making his case against this. make the case for it. it has been 70 years since this question was asked on a census. why do it now? why is it so important to do it now? what would be achieved? >> there's lots of research driven by it would be important to, sociology. it's strange the party of science as they like to brand themselves is all of a sudden against account collection of data when the data doesn't support the narrative they're trying to push. this is important for the purpose of civil rights, one man, one vote. economic and sociological services. it is important to count citizens of a voting age population. the key word is citizens. if we pare that back and say let's count everybody, illegal immigrants and citizens all the same it, harms civil rights, it

harms the ability to the count votes. i think from an overall standpoint, it's a silly argument. >> raul, that's the case chris is making for it. what do you say? he's saying look, it's common sense. the united states of america we're counting our citizens every ten years. let's make sure we're counting citizens. >> we are counting citizens every year in the american community survey. the census is every ten years. it comes to the constitution. article one, section 2 and the 14th amendment enim rate there is a mandate to count all people. our founding father coz have said all persons, all eligible voters. they did not. that principle was upheld by the supreme court as recently as 2016 in the everwell versus abbott case. that same principle is codified into law in the apa which says you cannot rush through these types of changes to law without

public fie public comment and field testing. california and new york will ultimately prevail in these cases adding this question. the bad news, as the legal wrangling goes on, it sews confusion, depresses turnout. we will see lower numbers of responses among latinos, immigrants and all communities of color. what i heard chris saying and i want your response to is the idea you're saying we've got count everybody. >> i'm not saying it. the constitution says count all people. >> when you count everybody, should you make a decision wlgs somebody's a citizen or not a citizen from the standpoint of we do these congressional districts 600,000, 700,000 people or so. should you make sure each district is 700,000 citizens as opposed to $500,000 folks, 100,000 folks who are undocumented? is it important to make that distinction? >> i understand that he seems to think it's an important distinction. i go back to the constitution. they chose not to make that

distinction. our government, congress did make the distinction because they wanted to know how many citizens are in all of our districts and they created the annual american community surveys. when we're talking about the u.s. census bureau, the last time we had the census, this is internal census documents now public, they undercounted latinos by 1.5% is, african-americans by 2%, undercounted african-americans by 4%. that was 2010. this time we have such a politicized environment where people are afraid of donald trump's deportation force and feel betrayed by daca. there's so much mistrust with the government. as the going to depress turnout among many latin knows. in this country we have stipulated say between 9 and 16 million mixed status family. that will be a family where maybe the children are citizens but the parents are undocumented. in many of those families they'll throw it away there's such fear and anxiety about the government.

>> chris, address that then. he said in the age of trump, we're going to reintroduce this is 70 years after it was last on there. it happens to be a president who talks about walls and deportation. what raul is saying, mixed status family, wouldn't that discourage participation. >> it's at worst laughable. donald trump becomes a convenient foil in these kind of situations. if you're implying because there's a question that asks citizenship that people will be more likely to fill out a form than if it didn't ask that, it's a joke. there's no way. the fact is people will fill it out or not. >> -- >> let chris finish. >> that represents one member of congress. if half of those are illegal immigrants, then you're undercounting and underrepresenting real citizens in the united states. that's a real problem when it gets down to the fact we have a representative democracy and people are supposed to get one vote for one citizen.

he's saying that no longer is the case. count everybody legally. whether they're an immigrant, illegal. that's not what the founding fathers meant when they wrote the constitution. >> our founding fathers going back to the language of the 14th amendment, count all people. that's the constitution mandate they cannot overcome. it's also a mistake to look at this in the political sense. to me it speaks volumes that the six former directors of the census bureau going back to the nixon administration, republicans and democrats have all come forward and said this is a bad idea. number one, because they disagree with it but two, because they have rushed this process. traditionally when questions are added to the census, they are field tested and the way they formulate questions can have an impact on the outcome this question was made in december. the fact they're rushing through this process, these former census bureau directors say this is problematic. given our political climate, it will further depress the turnout

among latino communities. >> chris, i'll give you the last word. >> what's interesting, this would undercount account african-american vote. this is not a benefit for republicans. this would increase the number of african-american democratic districts. it downgrades that and undercounts those. from a civil rights standpoint, this is not -- this is a negative for votes of all rays. i think that's the real problem here. this should be counted equally. >> chris, raul, thank you both for sharing your perspectives. up next, republicans are increasingly nervous. they may lose the house this november. one particular group of votes are could spell big trouble for the gop. i'll breaking that down at the board next. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪ just say the words ♪ and we'll beat the birds down to acapulco bay ♪ ♪ it's perfect for a flying honeymoon they say ♪

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are you going to be seeking re-election in pennsylvania's sixth district? >> yeah, it's the most difficult decision i can recall having to make, but the answer is i will not be. >> well, that was the news that broke two nights ago right here on msnbc on kasie hunt's show. ryan costello, a republican congressman from the philadelphia area not running for re-election in 2018. boy, if that isn't a blow to republicans in their effort to hang on to the house. it's not just the story of costello. he embodies a much bigger story when we talk about battle for control of the house.

let me take you through what i'm talking about. this is costello, this is his district in the philadelphia area. here is the key in pennsylvania. already coming into this year, we knew he was going to be in danger. we knew this would be a competitive district. we're talking about the suburbs here. we always say the college educated higher income upscale voters traditionally republican in the age of trump though, maybe not so sure on the republican party. this is a district hillary clinton won in 2016. coming into this year, costello was vulnerable. in pennsylvania, remember, they had that court fight. they changed the district lines a couple weeks ago in that state. suddenly, what was already a very difficult campaign for costello, this is what happened to it. his district changed and look at that. even more suburban. even more pro-hillary clinton in 2016. a ten-point hillary clinton district. ryan costello looked up and said you know what, given the climate and how midterms go, given what this district looks like, maybe not worth it to run.

costello is out. republicans are not going to be stuck with a candidate they're excited about in a district that's a big climb. suddenly democrats with a prime opportunity for a pickup. we said this is not just a ryan costello story but a national story. suburban districts traditionally republican that swung hillary clinton in 2016, check this out. you got 25 of them, not all of these are suburban. a lot of these are but all have one thing in common. republican districts now but hillary clinton won these districts in 2016. remember for democrats, magic number here is 24. you'll see 23 some places because of the special election. 24 is what it really is for technical reasons. they need 24. you got 25 republicans sitting there in clinton districts. in pennsylvania you got this new map in play right now. you got four right there. costello's district is one of them. you go to the west coast, look at this, in california, you got seven, seven republicans is sitting out there in districts

hillary clinton won. a bunch in between. some of these republicans like ros-lehtinen in florida have already said they're not going to run. this is ground zero. democrats are hoping 2018 is a blue wave. this would be ground zero, the first tier to look at election night in november. how many of these are districts that are flipping. are districts that traditionally vote republican. in the age of trump, in the midterm election especially say you know what, we're going to go to a check on trump. so that is for democrats when this he look at costello, they look at the decision and say how many other districts is something like that playing out in. the one cautionary note you got to give to democrats though, we talk about it from this angle. there is another side the democrats have to keep in mind. there are districts out there where democrats represent them right now but donald trump carried them in 2016. there are democratic trump districts. there's a dozen of them across the country. look in, a midterm election, the democrats playing offense this

year. there could be a few of these by election day democrats have to worry about. we're talking about sort of upcale college educated white suburbanites in the clinton districts. more blue collar and rural in some cases like the iron range in minnesota. can democrats defend all of these and then how many of these 25 can they get? look, could get them close to the 24 they need. that's what they want. the more they're doing here, the closer they'll be to flipping the house. that's one story line we'll talk about a lot. believe me, between now and november. up next here, republicans face a catch 22 this november. it centers around the man leading their party. president trump. that is next with the "hardball" roundtable. you're watching "hardball."

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welcome back to "hardball." republican congressman ryan costello's decision to end his bid for re-election in pennsylvania is another signal

the 2018 midterm elections may prove to be a referendum on the president. as he tells "the new york times" his decision to pull the plug was in part because "president trump's conduct made it impossible to talk about anything else." the issue he says is one of character, not policy. here he is today. >> i have little kids. i don't want them to ask me what does stormy daniels do for a living. a lot of voters support a lot of policies. we can't discount the fact that a lot of americans legitimately look at the president of the united states, any president of the united states and say, he or she should be a rowe model. >> costello is the 23rd republican member of congress to retire in advance of the 201 midterms. that's now a record for the most retirements of any cycle dating back to 1974. that was the watergate year. he joins others republican lawmakers like charlie dent and senator jeff flake who have publicly blamed the political

environment under president trump. >> we're talking about porn stars and the president rather than tax policy or what we need to get done by the end of the year or what should have been in the omnibus. >> the path to victory in the republican primary is to agree with the president these days, not just his policies but the behavior, as well. not to speak out. >> this administration at himes has taken the fun out of dysfunction. >> it's about loyalty at this time to the president. >> according to times," republicans are increasingly alarmed their losses may be worse than feared because the mid maryland term campaign appears to turn more on the behavior of the man in the white house than any other in decades. sell by holiday with the wall street judge, noah rothman and ki wright with wnyc and a columnist at the nation. knowia, i'll start with you. you were saying during the break

that a politician who decides to retire, they suddenly start answering the strategy questions very honestly. what you're hearing from costello is what every republican member is thinking. > they play pundit, which is usually a problem till you don't have to worry about re-election. it's interesting. he's talked about yeah it's hard to get trump voters to stay with you while also trying to play nice with the base of educated white suburban women, for example, hoks have turned on donald trump. what i found fascinating was something he told slate recently saying that we don't have an agenda. there's nothing to run on. in a substituting an agenda is donald trump the man his personality, whether you're for him or against him. there is no policy there. he's buffeted by the news psych. >> what is like -- if you're a republican member of congress in a suburban district, the message could be the tax cuts, could be the economy. >> they want it to be the tax cuts. there is an agenda iffed you have time and just a breath to even talk about it.

that is not the circumstances with the president donald trump. the news changes hour by hour. a lot of times any sort of news about a porn star or a tweet overshadowed tax cuts. who wants to talk about tax cuts when you can talk about a porn star. the republicans are frustrated they're trying to focus on therein message. and usually a booming economy is great for the party that's ruling. in this case, it doesn't even matter so much. we're seeing it in the polls. but as everyone's been pointing out, that's not what people are talking about. that won't be the focus of the midterms. >> kai, we go through cycles where at the ends of last year, we were seeing democrats were up 15 points and trump's approval down to 34. one fredsed from cnn, ticked up to 42%. it's not a great number. when you talk to republicans trying to keep the house, they say not much more than 42 they think they can keep the losses in check. >> it's a bad number, not a

great number. the more important number is the strongly approved and strongly disapprove numbers. and we're in the 20s for strongly approve for the president. it's been difficult to get much above that. when we talk about the message, the message has traditionally been nancy pelosi and i think that's the message you'll hear a lot of. we saw how that worked with conor lamb in pennsylvania. it doesn't resonate her as an evil scary thing doesn't resonate. >> it resonated in georgia six. that's a referendum on nancy pelosi and it worked. >> we talk about the suburban districts. georgia six is basically that profile. one-point race in 2016 and the republicans were able to hold on to it. you think it was pelosi. >> the attacks didn't help jon ossoff. i do think there's a message in that race in that if republicans are running against moderate democrats, i could see a lot of

republicans voting democrat because they were able to swallow sort of this economic moderate and in some cases conservative message with a person who is opposing donald trump's personal life. >> the candidate matters. when we get back to costello, it's the worst case scenario for republicans in a whole lot of ways. also the democratic candidate in krissy houlihan is a good candidate. a veteran, a woman and a great fund-raiser. that's going to be something that democrats need to think about as we go through the summer and look at districts. the map you laid out. >> how much -- the interesting thing i see and i try to figure out how much this trickles down and spreads out across the country. i see a lot of anger i think or frustration on the left that this idea of reaching out to trump voters and meeting them in the middle. i wonder what you think about this, the idea that the democratic base in response to trump in response to these last two years is to go further to the left and say we don't want to be compromised.

>> the actual story of the democratic base is about new engagement. one of the things we're seeing my colleague at the nation joan walsh writes about we think about the top of the ticket driving the bottom of the ticket. virginia is a place to think about the midterms where all of these new engagement in the state legislative level, the pink wave we saw in texas will drive a whole new set of people into the congressional election. that will be the story that we're going to start to see in these districts is the way in which new candidates and new voters particularly women and women of color in these districts are entering the conversation because of the state level. >> this is the philosophy of the governing wing of the democratic party. there is a prerogative wing, the tea party wing thinks this is their moment. they don't need to compromise. they can go for broke and don't need to invite the trump coalition into their coalition which is going to ascendent.

i sympathize with this point of view. as a more establishment friendly republican, it strikes me as the way to get elected. democrats point to the successes that republicans had in 2010 and 2014 where all they saw was no compromise, no reaching out to the other side. pushing ahead with an agenda that was essentially obstruction till they got power and they want to replicate that. >> squeeze in a quick break here. one former president weighs in on what he says is the worst mistake of the trump presidency. you're watching "hardball." was able to take care of my family while i was overseas serving. it was my very first car accident. we were hit from behind. i called usaa and the first thing they asked was 'are you ok?' they always thank you for your service, which is nice because as a spouse you serve too. we're the hayles and we're usaa members for life. see how much you could save with usaa by bundling your auto and home insurance. get a quote today.

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during the 2016 campaign, donald trump and mitt romney went to war with each other. >> mitt is a failed candidate. he failed. he failed horribly. that was a race that absolutely should have been won. and i don't know what happened to him. >> he creates scapegoats in muslims and mexican immigrants. he calls for the use of torture. this is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss. >> poor mitt romney. poor mitt. i have a saw that's worth more money than he is. >> donald trump is a phony, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. >> and he walks like a penguin onto the stage. do you ever see -- like a penguin. >> well, they seem to be on better footing now that romney is running for the senate in utah. during a question and answer session yesterday, romney played

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i think his last choice for national security adviser was very ill advised. i think john bolton has been the worst mistake he's made. he's advocated going to war preemptively against north korea, against iraq, against iran even. and so i think that that is particularly ill advised because the national security adviser i know from experience is the most listened to advice that a president gets.

>> welcome back to "hardball." that was former president jimmy carter calling donald trump's choice of john bolton for his next national security adviser the worst mistake of his presidency thus far. we're back with our roundtable, shelby, noah and kai. jimmy carter, former president making a statement like that, is that surprising? does this move the needle in any way? >> i don't think it moves the needle. i was reading more what he was say. he doesn't agree with the fact you should surround yourself with yes men. he said you want diversity of thought, people who stand up to you. he sees this move as hiring someone who agrees with you and who might be more volatile and maybe create more uncertainty in terms of world peace. >> that's an interesting question. >> the fact he said the worst mistake of his presidency, that's a very bold way of saying it, of all the things president trump has done in the last year, the fact he said that was the worst means a lot. >> is it surrounding yourself with yes men? i'm trying to get a read what

this means. donald trump saying the iraq war is the biggest mistake ever and john bolton was one of the champions of the iraq war. >> no, it doesn't make any sense from that perspective. john bolton was a veteran of 41 and 43, a competitive tent steward of national security affairs. people who painted him as a horrible bad guy ignored the fact he is a realist and a realist views hard power as the single most important instrument in foreign affairs if you're an institutionalist like carter, that's threatening. it is not out of the bounds of american foreign policy. it's within it. while having come after kissinger in that role, i can messenger he would see him very threatening. it is a check on donald trump's instincts which are to withdraw. i think this is a check on his impulses. >> we've got a wide range here, kai. we've got jimmy carter saying worst mistake. noah saying firmly within the

bounds. where do you hand on this? >> bolton is a hawk among hawks. we can spin that however we want. this is a man who believes in military action and has said so in every form he can think of across the board. and we live in very dangerous and volatile times with a president that has very little experience on these issues. we have this north korea conversation coming up. i think the point that jimmy carter is making which he's not the only one making it. there are republicans and democrats alike, people in the foreign policy establishment saying whoa, i'm a little concerned this is the guy advising this president and this president of all sorts. when he says the worst, he may mean the most grave mistake. >> there's also the question of does it matter? does president trump listen to anybody? jimmy carter says he's hiring a yes man. does donald trump ever listen to any of his aides? that's a fair question. >> it's a frightening question. >> it is a fact that america's

policy towards dprk is a preventive strike is an option. our policy towards the islamic republic of iran a strike is an option. to say that out loud is not an offense to god and nature. it's a fact. >> it's frightening. >> i like what shelby is saying. when you look at the history of trump as a candidate and president, you see folks around him and tempted to discern ideology. three weeks later, a completely different set of people are around him. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball."

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all right. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. shelby, tell me something i don't know. >> i asked you had quit facebook. >> it's been two years since i used it. >> they lost $80 billion since it suspended cambridge analytica. mark zuckerberg we expect will be answering very tough questions in two weeks. >> noah. >> buzzfeed published a report information leaked from the fbi, apparently they have a report detailing a former rt chief, an putin ali didn't beat himself to death over the course of several days in washington. it was a hit. we could have a sergei skripal situation if washington. >> kai. >> i'm watching kids we are excited about changing the world. in the middle of it was making a podcast about juvenile justice. i was shock to the learn that there's another group of kids handcuffs put on them at age 10

and 12 years old. >> i did not know that at all. that's the contrast between that and what we saw over the weekend. that is something. shelby holliday, kai write, thank you for being with us and all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on all in. >> to be clear, he continues to deny the fundamental charge that she has which is that she had this sexual encounter with him in 2006. >> the white house gets explicit on stormy. >> yes, the president denied those allegations. >> tonight as the president stays quiet. >> i didn't say he punches back on every single topic. >> the lawyer for stormy daniels on the white house denials and donald trump's continued silence. plus, just where is the line for white evangelicals supporting donald trump. >> nothing beats the bible. >> why the trump administration's proposed census question on