we talk about all sorts of things if the break. our official question to you mr. avenatti is what was stormy doing in the bathroom for all of that time, from the 60 minutes interview. if you follow up, we'll send you a fruit basket. and thank you to the panel. that does it for the hour. i'm nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" starts right now with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck. >> have a lot of ideas. >> i went to pretty woman and flossing. what was she doing. that was the most riveting part of the 60 minutes interview. >> the things going through my mind that are appropriate for discussion. >> we need to do this together. >> nicolle wallace,ly leave it there for both of our sakes. see you later. and if it is wednesday, pardon the interruption. >> did the president or his

counsel try to trade pardons for silence in the mueller investigation. >> there is not discussion at this time. >> and plus flipping the script on the trump playbook. why stormy daniels may understand the art of the deal even better than the president. >> and jerry mander justice. the supreme court tackles partisan map shape shifting and this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. ♪ ♪ good evening. i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd and welcome to "mtp daily" on this wednesday. we begin with a pair of major developments surrounding robert mueller's investigation. centers around mueller gathering damaging information from people close to the president and the other centers around people close to the president trying to

thwart mueller from gathering damaging information. both are major stories. "the new york times" and washington post are both reporting that the president trump's lead lawyer in the russia case, john dowd, was talking with michael flynn's lawyer and palm manafort's lawyer about a presidential pardon. as both the times and the post report, these discussions happened last summer as mueller was building a case against both trump aides. it is a case that we now know would lead to michael flynn pleading guilty and lying to investigators and to cooperating with mueller. it is also a case that would lead to dozens of charges against manafort and a plea agreement involving his top deputy rick gates. dowd's purported talks with lawyers raise serious questions will whether or not the legal team was trying to influence michael flynn and paul manafort's decision about cooperating with robert mueller's investigation. were they looking for ways to

use the president's pardoning power to meddle with mueller's probe or afraid of what flynn and manafort might tell mueller? and then the president. did he know about these alleged conversations. about pardoning flynn and manafort. would the president's lawyer really freelance on something like that? president trump was asked about possibly pardoning flynn back in december. he did not rule it out. >> about michael flynn, would you consider a pardon for michael flynn. >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. let's see what happens. let's see. i can say this, when you look at what is going on with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> dowd who resigned from the preside president's legal team denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. the president's lawyer ty cobb said no pardons are under

destruction -- under discussion or consideration. and sarah huckabee-sanders today toed the line. >> are you worried about what paul manafort or michael flynn will tell special counsel robert mueller. >> as we've said every day since we've got here because you continue to ask about this topic every single day. there was no collusion and we're very confident in that aclook forward to the process wrapping up. >> this process does not look like it will wrap up any time soon. the mueller team just filed new documents in court that said both manafort and rick gates who was top -- the top deputy were communicating with someone who had active ties to russia intelligence during the campaign. it is yet another connection between the trump campaign and russia in an investigation that seemingly continues to draw closer to the president himself. to what lengths will mr. trump now go to defend himself? perhaps we're about to find out. i'm joined now by former federal prosecutor marianne rocca in the

southern district of new york. good to see you. thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> the rick gates aspect of the story. the paul manafort story today, why do you think that this is as -- a bigger deal than what we've seen before. >> a couple of reasons. first of all, this is the first time that i can think of that we've heard mueller speak, if you will, through court papers, court filings but his team speak about a connection between people in the trump campaign and russian intelligence -- active russian intelligence members. so we've had reported in the press before and we've had information about contacts between people on the trump campaign and russian people that spoke with flynn but this is the first time in a court filing saying that the fbi knows that someone on the trump -- or

someone high level on the trump campaign right before the election was talking to russian intelligence. and if they put it in court papers, it means they could prove it in court. so it is a fact. >> and you are saying that rick gates knew this person was a former russian intelligence officer, a gru officer. we're not entirely sure who the person was. he's named as person a. in the documents. there are news reports that are speculating as to who it was and the ties that he had to paul manafort and rick gates. but at this time, in the lead-up to the 2016 election, when paul manafort is not on the campaign any longer but rick gates is still there and he's working as an -- a liaison between the rnc and the trump campaign. how significant is it to talk to even a former russian intelligence official when you are running the campaign of somebody who is trying to be the president of the united states? >> it is incredibly significant. and as you just pointed out, it is not only that he's talking to him but knowing about his

intelligence ties. so we've had things that have come out in the investigation already about what the word is unwitting americans being used by russians and now wee know that gates was talking to someone knowing he was in the intelligence arena in russia, the question is what were they talking about. so now you have the opportunity basically for the word everyone is using as collusion. so we have -- here is the opportunity. we don't know exactly what they were talking about and i'm not saying this is what is going to be charged. but this is a big piece of a puzzle that he is talking to someone at the that time. >> those in the trump orbit would say, listen, rick gates and paul manafort, they didn't have big roles, these are the people that you've been -- that robert mueller has been pointing to now for some months, this does not show that the president himself knew anything about this. >> and that is true. right now. this is about gates. but i think as many people have pointed out, gates was at the

president's side at this time. so it is -- there is a sort of unbelievability to it that he wouldn't have known. but that is yet to be determined. >> what about the pardons? the reporting from both the "times" and confirmed by the washington post said that john dowd up until last week had been talking to manaforts and flynn's lawyer in the time that the investigation was closing in on them and said, hey, listen, we could have a presidential pardon. how big of a deal is that? >> i think the most important part about that reporting is that it was dowd and not mcgahn talking about pardons. don mcgahn is the white house counsel. that is who is responsible for assisting the president in the pardon process. not his personal attorney. so that puts it in a very different light. it shows that to the extent if it was being considered, it was being considered by his personal attorney in his own criminal

investigation, in the investigation against him. so that really puts it in a suspicious light frankly. >> is it out of the ordinary to talk about pardons with people going up to testify or to be questioned by a special counsel or any -- i guess a special counsel. >> well, what is unusual is that they were in all likelihood and it turns out they were, going to testify against the person who has the pardon power. so that -- it is -- it would be a use of the presidential power, which is a strong and almost absolute authority of the president but a use of the presidential power for his own personal benefit and gain, which is something we've seen repeatedly with him using the presidential bully pulpit in this way to try to get himself out of a certain situation and that is problematic for sure. whether it is criminal or not, i'm not prepared to say that

now. there are other facts we need to know. >> there is debate. >> yeah. certainly it could fit within a broader pattern that we've seen of president trying to make this investigation go away. standing alone it is probably not enough, but it is certainly troubling. >> mary am rocca. >> and now bob bower who was white house counsel to president obama. good to see let's start there and talk about whether or not mueller could potentially use this as evidence of donald trump trying to obstruct the case. there is a lot of disagreement over whether or not this amounts to obstruction. what is your take? >> i agree with miss roccah that it is certainly evidence that something could be afoot and it would have to be pursued. i do not agree with some who argue that because he's talking about the exercise of the pardon power, he's exempted from any investigation into attempt. and i think that is incorrect. with appropriate evidence, the

use of the pardon power to obstruct an investigation is potentially an indictable offense and violation of the criminal laws. >> is it -- is it out of the ordinary to -- to have somebody, a personal lawyer for the president ask about pardons? would don mcgahn ask by pardons in normal circumstances as miriam was just saying. >> i don't think the white house counsel or a personal lawyer would raise the question of a presidential pardons with witnesses in an inquiry that directly touched the president. in other cases it wouldn't be appropriate. imprudent is fraught with legal consequences. >> how much does donald trump's own words factor in during the time that the washington post and the new york times were reporting these conversations were happening with michael flynn's lawyer or this conversation was happening. donald trump was on the white house lawn as you just saw in that video talking about whether or not he would use a pardon, bringing up the term part and

there was reporting that he had been asking his aides and counselors what his part-- pard power was. how much of that will factor into weighing a conversation that dowd might have had with the lawyers from manafort and gates. >> once again it creates a context that bears additional investigation. the timing of the president's remarks with mr. dowd's approach to the witnesses and his apparent mention of the pardon power, will only encourage the investigators to determine whether he was in fact authorizing and approach in which he was offering up the pardons as a potential inducement to the witnesses not to give truthful testimony about the president's actions. so i do think and we've seen this before in other political context, it is not without consequence what the president said in public. it is not without consequence what he said by twitter or without consequence as he walks across the white house lawn or in the press briefing room or anywhere. and i think it would be mistaken to believe otherwise.

>> is it advisable for a president to issue a pardon in an investigation that concerns himself? >> no. think that is the fundamental question that will potentially be addressed in this case depending on how the president behaves, whether he decides to grant a pardon or not. and that is whether or not the pardon pow core be construed to permit a president to exercise it for the purpose of saving himself. that is not how the founders conceived of the pardon power. i think it is in certain resperresper resperk -- respects protects the beneficiary but i don't think it protected the president. >> do you think the president has obstructed justice? >> i don't know. i think he's put himself in a position where that question could be raised. there is plenty to use -- that metaphor that is overworked, there is plenty of smoke and i think people's eyes are beginning to burn. >> can the president obstruct justice. there are arguments out there that the president cannot. the white house argues that.

>> the president certainly can obstruct justice. one of the questions again that has been raised is can the president obstruct justice or can he, for example, say that it is his constitutional right to dismiss any subordinate officer for any purpose and nobody can inquiry into his motive. i think that is flatly wrong. i think the president obviously has wide authority to dismiss subordinate officers but i believe in the case that there is corrupt intent and he is acting in a fashion to protect himself, i believe that his motive can be inquired into and i believe he can be exposed to obstruction charges. and i also believe and i think it is the better view of the law thatco be indicted while in office. >> what do you think of the team the president has -- has assembled and there is now dowd gone and secu low and a criminal lawyer in new york and not a d.c. lawyer. are these the people that are going to be able to adequately protect the president from this

investigation if it needs -- if they need to? >> certainly the president had an opportunity to be represented by individuals with more experience and it hasn't worked out that way for him. i don't want to speak to the capabilities of any of these lawyers except to say that none of them are really known at this point to have the sort of backgrounds that are most helpful to a president in this situation. so what i view the president's legal team to be ideal from my p perspective, built up from the people that could give him the advice, i see a shortfall there to be sure. and on the other hand i suppose somebody could say the president not having recently fired them or interviewed replacements behind their back, they could get along with the clients. >> and historical question, have you ever heard of any other president thinking about pardoning somebody to protect themselves? >> i don't know whether by the way -- the watergate transcripts reflect any discussion with nixon about that possibility.

if hi to look someplace to see whether there was a hint of that or a plot, that is where i would look first. >> bob bower. good to see you. thank you very much. and ahead, we'll break down both of the huge russia probe developments with tonight's all-star panel. we'll be back in a moment. ways to lose stubborn belly fat. the roasted core wrap. 3, 2, 1... not cool. freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting? now that's cool! coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. and no surgery. results and patient experience may vary. some rare side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. ask your doctor if coolsculpting is right for you and visit coolsculpting.com today... for your chance to win a free treatment.

welcome back, meet the midterms meets president obama. former president obama is wading into the velvet of the mid-term elections. a source close -- a source confirmed to nbc that obama will appear at a beverly hills fundraiser in may for senator claire mccaskill. they go way back. she was the first female senator if you remember to endorse him during his 2008 run for president over hillary clinton. did not make it in front of the clintons that year. and this is the first fundraising eent for a candidate this year and since leaving the white house he's only hit the campaign trail for a select few

democrats like ralph northam and the race for virginia governor last fall and mccaskill is slengted expected to be in a tough place because trump won the district in 2016 but not the only one who is running for a seat who is getting presidential help. mr. trump appeared for state attorney general josh holly who is considered the front-runner to take on mccaskill. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily" in 60 seconds. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.

tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ♪ otezla. show more of you. welcome back. lots to talk about. so let's get right to the panel. jonathan la mere from the associated press and a political analysis. michelle goldberg from the new york times and michael steel, former rnc chairman and an msnbc political analyst. i'm happy about the panel today. paul manafort, facing a lot of charges. big question has been why is

paul manafort not pleading guilty to one of the charges and trying to make a plea deal. you have legal analysts out there who say there is no way he can avoid jail time. so what has been floating out there until today? well is he expecting a presidential pardon. then this "times" story comes out so he is expecting a presidential pardon because it was floated to his lawyer last year. >> that is the part we don't know. but it does appear that way. that manafort is looking for that pardon. i believe as we've discussed before, that part of it is he is refusing to cooperate with mueller. he also -- when rick gates announced that he pled -- pleaded guilty a few months ago and suggested that he would, mueller lit him up in a statement. suggesting he couldn't believe -- i'm sorry manafort lit him up in a statement. that said how could you do this. we're innocent and suggesting his own client would not be doing the same and woe still be not guilty. and manafort and gates have been

partners for years and it is striking to see him turn on his former associates like that. but i think there is a signal here, he's trying to send to the white house, i'm not going to sell you out, i'm going to remain strong with the hope that perhaps of that pardon down the road. >> but if there were pardons being talked about, wouldn't you also float that pardon in front of rick gates' lawyer. >> i think presumably they did and we're finding out about this now is because rick gates started to cooperate with mueller i guess about six weeks ago. so where else would this information have come from. who else would have been privy to these conversations. it is interesting in that if that hypothesis is true, it shows that rick gates even with that possibility being held out there thought things were so stacked against him that he didn't want to take that risk. and it kind of sends a message then to paul manafort about just how much mueller knows about the negotiations that they've been involved in with the white house. >> the president of the united

states facing a special counsel investigation, his lawyer goes to two people who could be critical for the special counsel, michael flynn there on the plane with donald trump all of the time and talking to the russian ambassador and lying about it. paul manafort who was in charge of the convention and rallying up delegates and changing that convention platform under his watch with deep ties to kroo-- krairn a ukraine and any way on this green earth that donald trump didn't know about that? >> since he's the only one that could give the pardon, he would have to know about it. that is the way this works out. >> but can you -- can you imagine a scenario where a lawyer would freelance on that? >> no. no. a lawyer does not go into those types of conversations generally. >> a lawyer for president -- for trump. >> a lawyer for the president -- >> no, a lawyer for donald

trump. >> let's start with ai lawy -- lawyer for the president would not engage in that type of conversation without the president's knowledge and approval. a lawyer for donald trump could because i feel that in many instances there is nun un -- an unwritten code or understanding between him and his people. you do what you need to do to take care of the business i need you to take care of. so there is less communication involved because everybody knows what they have to do. the fallout from this, though, is exactly to the point that you were making about gates. he looked at this deal and he looked at donald trump and he figured he would take his chances with the special counsel because there is no guarantee at the end of the day that donald trump will honor that. >> we don't know if gates was offered the deal. we should put that out there.and nbc has not confirmed the story. >> and we're supposed to believe that michael cohen and stormy daniels -- that he did this on his own without consulting donald trump. so i guess there is -- >> and the lawyers not just

freelance but in ways that could end their career. >> there are all kinds of sanctions in the legal community that get imposed when you go just an inch outside of the boundaries. >> so we've seen that everyone who is associated with trump ends up tarnishing the reputation irreparably and that could be what happened with john dowd. we assumed that he quit because trump was unmanageable and bring in the ridiculous fox news pu pundits but it could be he was a party of obstruction of justice. >> why would flynn not take a deal if it was offered. >> that is a great question. perhaps he doesn't trust the assurances from the president who is at the -- apt to change his mind frequently. he is -- maybe there is a concern that there are things on the state level that perhaps that the president wouldn't have been able to pardon for. that is a great question. but following up, we do know that the president has been -- has talked about pardons before.

and that is something that -- with the a.p. and other places have reported that, he has talked to aides, current and former aides suggesting what exactly -- what are my powers, what do i have. >> that came out in "the washington post" around the time "the new york times" said john dowd was having this conversation with michael flynn. summer of 2017. i want to talk about rick gates for a moment and this new court document that came out showing that rick gates was talking to a russian intelligence -- former russian intelligence official during the campaign, september or october lead up to the election and at that time he was in the rnc. he was the liason between the rnc and the trump campaign. as somebody who used to run the rnc, what does that job entail and what does that mean? >> liason for the rnc. it doesn't entail anything. there is no such job. it doesn't exist unless the chairman and the presidential nominee make it up and create

the space. when you -- in a presidential campaign, once the campaign team takes over the rnc -- >> the same thing. >> they put people in and out all of the time. they give them all of the inflated titles that don't mean anything. within the overall structure of the building, that was a space that was created for him to do what he needed to do from a, quote, political side on behalf of the president and that is the only reason you are in the rnc to deal with politics. >> and i was told he was in charge of the money, the fundraising money went to the campaign and when it should is gone to the rnc and he was in charge of getting out the vote effort. >> so he's handing the back side money on the dollars that are coming in and the politics around it. >> so how could it be significant if he's talking to a russian intelligence official while doing those jobs? >> well those -- i wouldn't put the two together. and say that one be gets the other but being in that space

somebody thought that it is cleaner cover than -- than inside of the campaign because his job is to deal with money and that has nothing to do with russians. but in the meanwhile he's having conversations with russians. so there it is. >> a lot of smoke. we'll see if there is any fire. stick around. we'll come back a couple times this hour. ahead, will the supreme court -- did you get dizzy there? i did too. will the supreme court draw the line on gerrymandering. that decision that could change america's electoral maps and the balance of power in washington. stay with us. is it possible to save someone's life... from thousands of miles away? yes. thanks to the dedicated technicians at the american red cross... who worked with vmware... to develop technologies to help redirect the flow of blood to the areas and people needing it most. helping them recover... and refilling everyone with life-affirming hope. magic can't make digital transformation happen...

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ahead, throwing the book at president trump. his own media playbook, but first eric shemmy is here with the cnbc market wrap. >> that is right. u.s. stocks closing lower as the tech sector struggles to bounce back keeping pressure on the major indices. the dow fell nine points and the s&p dropped seven and the tech heavy nasdaq down 59 points, closing lower for the second straight day. apple ceo tim cook pulled no punches criticizing facebook for the data privacy practices during an interview with recode cara swisher and chris hayes. when asked how cook would handle the problems confronting mark zuckerberg in the wake of the cambridge analytica leak, cook responds, quote, i wouldn't be in this situation. that is it from cnbc. first in business worldwide.

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we have breaking news. you know it is a day that ends with y so it is a breaking news out -- there is breaking news out of the white house. the president has tweeted i'm pleased to announce i intend to nominate highly respected ronnie l. jackson m.d. as the new secretary of veterans' affairs. so he has a new veterans' affairs secretary which means david shulkin under a cloud of ethics violations has now resigned. he improperly accepted wimbledon tickets and other questionable things that are out there. why does ronnie l. jackson sound familiar to you? dear viewer, because that is the doctor that the president gots to use. that is the dr. that came to the podium and talked about the president's physical the other day. his mental status and he was also just promoted recently by the president. peter alexander is at the white house. peter, what more can you tell us?

>> reporter: well i think the bottom line is the biggest news is that the president is breaking his own news once again by twitter about this firing. we've been reporting over the course of the last several weeks that david shulkin's name was at the top of the president's removal list and in private conversations i've asked about several of the other cabinet members here about whom there have been questioned and consistently people focused on david shulkin they thought the most likely to depart. and you talked about the inspector general report and that is the big concern for the president as it relates to david shulkin. what is striking about the decision to hire the rear admiral johnny jackson to take over the job -- his personal physician who americans got to see on the one occasion when he came out before the cameras several months ago and talked about the president's physical health. it sort of shows you the difficulty this white house is -- this president had finding a replacement. we've been told by those close to the president there were challenged in recent weeks trying to find not only a

replacement at the v.a. but also an acting secretary until jackson can be confirmed. i saw him only about a week ago as he was walking around the west wing with his pressed uniform in hand and he is now a rear admiral just promoted, days ago and he was all smiles and i wonder whether he found out this may be coming from the president on the day we visited with him. >> remind everybody about what exactly was going on with david shulkin and why the president had not been happy with him. >> reporter: well there have been a series of inspector general reports that were out there, as you were talking about one was about some of his foreign travels when he was traveling with his wife overseas and the fact that he ended up attending wimbledon and the tennis tournament when he was there. the handling of some of the costs associatied with that. and those are the things in particular that do not sit well with this president. he doesn't like what he views as sort of unforced errors and the

same reason the president was frustrated or those around him indicate he was frustrated by the hud secretary ben carson, spending $31,000 on a dining room set or saying that woe like to purchase a dining room set for $31,000 before canceling that order. so that was one of the frustrations. and separately, the way i think that david shulkin handled himself at the v.a. there were concerns around the west wing that shulkin had taken his conversations with the president as effectively a green light to get rid of those who thought were not in support of his efforts at the v.a. he was viewed by some as being too combative at the time. from the very start, this is a guy that heavily embraced and felt the v.a. was making progress and the military -- the president is fond of the military and adequately supporting america's troops and clearly that remains a focus for him as he tried to make a change that benefits all of those who serve in the military. >> the other day you said it is close to having the cabinet he

wants. should we expect that anybody else could be going next? i don't know, ben carson or somebody? >> good question. i guess the answer is you better watch your phone these days. that is how the president makes these announcements. again just to be clear, in my private conversations with those around the west wing and those close to the president, david shulkin's name was the one on the top of this list. we've had conversations about scott pruitt and ben carson at hud, ryan zinke, the interior secretary. but in all of the conversations that i've had, the only name that was really circled was david shulkin and it appears for good reason the president making that conclusive decision announcing it by twitter today that he will be gone. and it does tell you one more thing about this president. he's as much a media guy as a business guy. announcing it to the world just as he did again today. >> and it is interesting timing because everybody has been talking about that new york times report that said that john dowd -- the president's former

lawyer in the mueller investigation was asking paul manafort and michael flynn's lawyers about whether they were inter -- interested in a presidential pardon. good idea to announce this to change the subject. peter alexander at the white house. thank you for rushing to the camera. and let's bring back the panel. jonathan la mere and michelle gold brpg and michael steel. it does feel like a distraction tactic to me. >> totally. >> am i crazy. >> it is totally that. and folks were waking up this morning having a news that was breaking and now we're talking about shulkin. and the president will do -- he has the list of people that he wants to help him remake his cabinet and he will roll them in and out as the news cycle warrants and so right now this is a moment where he wants to take the bright shiny object that we've been focusing on with respect to the mueller investigation and russia and all of that, and now we're going to talk about cabinet appointments. >> how many more people can he fire in order to distract us

from the mueller investigation? >> it is a good seven or eight more weeks of firing he can do here. >> this is a matter of when and not if for shulkin. his days have been numbered for a while. he's an obama era holdover who the president was very fond of at first. on the campaign trail he really wanted -- the president stressed he wanted to improve conditions for veterans and made that a signature issue. but the ethics violations were weighing heavily on him in the west wing and we saw him portfolio curtailed. there is a veterans event that he was not in attendance for and maybe in terms of timing, he wanted a bad news cycle but we knew it was coming. >> and he is not the only one that faces ethics concerns or violations. you have zinke installing $130,000 door, pair of doors in the white house and scott pruitt who built a sound proof room. and questions about travel from various --

>> and ben carsons $30,000 table. >> and the $30,000 dining room set. ethics violations are part and parcel with being a cabinet member for donald trump. >> and steve mnuchin treating federal air force as like uber. this comes from the top. it is interesting that shulkin was an obama holdover there and are known scandals from his time under obama. and part because people take cues from the top about what is permissible. and given that you have an administration that treats this as -- they are sort of the smash-and-grab, they are there to get everything they can. you have chuck schum you ha you have jared kushner and who he met at the white house and the reason you are seeing the separate incidents of corruption and these are the caliber in many cases of people who would go work for trump.

is because they take cues -- >> they think it is acceptable. >> in this administration unless it gets out and causes trump a headache. >> you agree. >> acceptable until it is not. and then it is not when it is known. >> ronnie jackson, rear admiral ronnie jackson who we remember from the podium talking about how fit the president was and how mentally acute he was. what do you make of that promotion. >> i think the president is someone intimately familiar with. >> it is his doctor. >> why are you putting that image in our head. >> and bringing in people he's most comfortable with. people at fox news or people with strong relationships and that he doesn't want saying no to him. and maybe dr. jackson who is someone that fits the bill and people were sort of -- surprised at his findings in the president's physical when he came to the podium but he's another one who obama people spoke very highly of. >> he is a --

>> he is a white house physician. >> it is a donald trump person now because there is no way that donald trump weighs 239 pounds. so he is a donald trump person to the extend that the president could get him to go out and say some things that are obviously not true. and so i think a lot of this plays to the fact that the president is comfortable with him and the president believes at this moment he is someone when gets over there he will do what the president wants to do with little resistance as possible. >> what is today? is it wednesday? >> think so. >> we have two more days of this. maybe four or five. the rest of our lives. who knows. jonathan, michelle and michael. stay with us. we'll be right back with one of the stories the president may be trying to distract us from. one of the many. stormy daniels when we come back. your letting go thing. your sorry not sorry thing. your out with the old in with the new,

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it is a wild and whacky day here at "mtp daily." stormy daniels and her lawyer michael avenatti have grabbed and held the limelight in a way we haven't seen since donald trump with a tabloid style mix of provocative statement and head turning allegation and cryptic tweets and countless tv interviews and teases to stay tuned. does any of this strategy sound familiar? >> we're not going to get into the details -- >> i'm not going to disclose been. >> i would rather not say. >> at the appropriate time. >> i'm not go to answer that question.

>> absolutely to be continued. we're just getting started. >> we're just getting started. >> we're just getting started. >> we're just getting starts. >> it is just the beginning. >> i'm a good poker player and we're going to see how this plays out. >> we like to play our cards close to the vest. >> this is a chess match. >> and we'll get to the bottom of it. >> we'll get to the bottom of it. >> i'm not teasing anything. >> you'll see. >> everybody wants instant gratification. stay tuned. >> stay tuned. stay tuned. >> i've got to bow down to the meet the president editors putting that together. that was brilliant. and more on the president's playbook right after this. stay with us. and last season, it was a flowering disaster. this year, they're not messing around. miracle-gro guarantees results with rich potting mix that uses ingredients fresh from the forest... and plant food that adds vital nutrition so you'll have three times the blooms.

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♪ come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. ♪ time now for "the lid." the panel is back. jonathan, michael. jonathan, you wrote about this in the exact strategy yesterday,

stormy daniels taking a page out of donald trump's playbook. >> that was extraordinary, ver, very great. what people have realized, finally, you have to compete with him on that level, at that speed, and this lawyer has done a tremendous job with that, where it's something new every day, he teases, he tantalizes, he releases incremental portions of -- but that every day there's something else there and he's done a great job of playing the press along for the ride. where, it's always something else, it's another revelation, you always wonder what's around the next corner, a great example of this past week, where he puts out this photo of the dvd, the cd-rom, b.

>> does he have a credibility advantage when it comes to donald trump? i don't think he has a credibility problem, because he's not working for the media, right, he's working for his client. if he doesn't think it's an van stageo ed advantageous to his client, they have all these court hearings going forward, we'll find out whether he has a credibility problem closer to the end of this process than at the beginning. yesterday -- i have spoken to a number of lawyers about his strategy, particularly his strategy of saying that, you know, this agreement is null and void because it violates public policy, because it violences campaign finance law, the interesting thing about that is that it then gives him in discovery the chance to go looking inside the trump campaign, you know, which is an opportunity that a lot of lawyers, you know, would be very excited about. so the people i have spoken to who kind of understand how the law works, thought he would play

this very cleverly. >> this is a statement from michael avanatti, we feel strongly that after the clinton matter, the court will order the depositions and the trial to proceed. we expect to be placing the president and his fixer michael cohen under oath in the coming months. donald trump being deposed in a stormy daniels -- >> it's a popcorn moment, it's a popcorn moment, it's one he's playing hard to get into, he's laid a trap for the president to step in. he has said the reason the president is not out here saying this is a lie, because the moment he does, gotcha, because then that opens up a whole new opportunity to bring in defamation, a host of other charges. >> they're already suing cohen for defamation. >> and that brings us to the conversations that are going on,

the conversations and negotiations they're doing privately brings it more into the public. >> if donald trump has done this a number of times, he knows the legal better than anyone. >> that's half true. he's been deposed a number of times. >> he lies a ton. >> he has had to admit that he's lied in the past. it's a dangerous thing, it's much like the mueller investigation. those attorneys too are also very opposed to putting the president in the deposition. >> and it's about their sex life and his history of getting women that he slept with to sign this very strict nondisclosure agreement, with all of these provisions that they can't discuss alleged children, or alleged paternity, imagine the president having to answer those questions under oath. >> what kind of person needs a nondisclosure agreement for every aspect of their business, their presidency, they lives?

>> someone who likes a lot of his business to be kept in secret and a lot of what he does. >> why does that need to be kept in secret? >> that's just how he is. he's a very insular guy, he's a businessman who doesn't necessarily honor the deal that he strikes, it doesn't matter whether he's deposed or not. because it's not affected the way you and i would be affected. we'll pay the fee, we'll pay the fine. >> so he doesn't have any shame? >> he doesn't have any shame. and somebody's working like a dog, stay with us.

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now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. in case you missed it, we get a lot of press releases at r here at "mtp daily." california governor jerry brown announced some new government appointees. among them cali brown of california, she's 2 months old and the newest member of the first family. and the first dog of the state. the governor of california has a page of bios dedicated to the state's first dogs. maybe sometimes it's not bad, maybe it's furry and adorable. the governor's office says cali will be paid in belly rubs. funny, you think a puppy would

be willing to do the work pro bono, get it? pro bone-o nothing? rough crowd. we'll be back tomorrow with more "m "mtp daily." ari, down what party he belongs to? the dog-ocrats. trump replacing his personal secretary with his personal physician, and sometime say this is an attempt to distract from the lead story. and we won't be distracted. it's a way trump's legal team is potentially trying to evade bob mueller. this is breaking from the "new york times," the lawyer who just left donald trump's team, john dowd, you heard