paying for it. did he do that chant yesterday? i'm wondering who said they're going to pay for. the united states marine corps. >> president trump talks specifically about infrastructure and also rosea e roseanne. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday. who is glad it's friday? with us we have john heielman. and president of the council of foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray," richard haas. and national political reporter for nbc news bringing more news this morning, carol lee and it seems almost certain the president's day long silence was

prompted by stormy daniels last sunday on "60 minutes." there are new details for her lawyer to question president trump for two hours. plus, how 56 words may have stumped president trump's position. it all stems from a sound byte we played yesterday. it's the attorney's attorney. i don't foe why they let him talk. we'll dig into that straight ahead. >> what we're talking about there, i've got to go back to donald trump's speech buzz it is so fascinating and you're an ad guy, it's so fashion nating that donald trump's punch lynn is what are we going to do? we're going to build the wall. nobody's going to pay for the wall, but donald trump is trying to to get the united states

marine corps, the united states navy, the men and women in the army, the national guard to actually have money stripped out of their accounts to build a wall that nobody wants but he goes out there and he has the audacity to say we've got this beautifully designed wall and we're not building it and i'm sure the american people, certainly the good people of ohio, obviously know he's lying. the question is how long does this lie continue because mexico is not paying for the wall and he didn't even get the funding because his republican allies say we don't need that wall. >> the wall is an imaginary friend like his friend harvey that -- was that the movie, harvey, with the imaginary friend? >> maybe the rabbit. >> it's just harvey and it is not a thing.

it is a femetaphor as we all kn. i will continue to be the white president, he can get re-elected, it can get years from now. here i am 35%, i'm not going anywhere. we're going to protect you from all the different bad colors of people that come into this gun triand he's mr. defense. he's mr. veteran and by the way, if i have to feed my friend harvey i'll take it from the military. >> i'm going to strip it out to the military's account. it seems that when your lawyers lawyer's lawyer's lawyer's start talking, you get in trouble and that's exactly what jonathan turley has said that we played the clip yesterday and when mike -- when donald trump's

lawyer's lawyer came out and said what he said a couple of days ago e well, he undermined trump's case and cohen's case against stormy daniels and his attorney. >> there are various things to sayant this, but it just ends up getting back to this -- the fundamental thing which is you know, donald trump when he says he has hired the best people, he is in ra world of hurt and he has nothing like the best people around him. he's got essentially the -- not even the b team, but the c team of legal talent on both his private matters and government matters. eventually they will lead you into trouble and that seems to be happening on both sides. it's happening on the thing that

poses a threat to his presidency and also the on the thing that opposes what apparently that he's most actually personally concerned about this relates to stuff that took place outside of his marriage. >> so many people are in trouble right now the the mueller investigation, are in trouble in part because they were winging it. because they were just thinking that they were smarter than everybody else when in fact they were more ignorant than erveg else. how the you run the white house. they made a lot of stupid mistakes. pall manafort stands alone as somebody who actually used thz a business structure to do deals with russia but so many other people got in trouble because they were just winging it. >> right v. >> but here's a great example of donald trump to get his lawyer to go out on cnn and to say hey,

donald trump knows nothing about this deal with stormy daniels. and in so doing, jonathan turley will tell us why, they probably sunk their defense and probably have now blown apart the nda that he wants to stay in place. >> they're winging it, that's one thing they do. they're ignorant and they're bullies and it all comes together very badly especially in a case pertaining to a woman who hoas a story, who has a rea contract. it's not going to go well i can assure anybody that's concerned about that. >> but first overnight russia's defense ministry released video of what it says is a test of a new icbm. the test was successful. it is reportedly one of the new missiles putin show occasioned

in his speech earlier this year. it comes measures against the united states. the expected move comes after the u.s. expelled 60 russian spies in response of the poisoning of an ex- spy and his daughter in the uk. the kremlin is kicking out 60 american diplomats in addition no closing the consulate ordering it shou shut down by tomorrow and that brings us to the new exclusive reporting for nbc news about trth's relationship with russia and vladimir putin. most officials tell nbc news that trump has told his aides not to publicly talk about policy moves the white house implements against russia. according to officials, his reasoning stems from his

continued hope for better relations with putin. his critics question his praise or silence toward the russian leader. for instance, after it was announced they would apply, trump told his aides not to tout decision publicly because it might agitate putin. it is not something he wants to talk about. however, after putin flaunted his nuclear arsenal one white house official said it really got under the president's skin and that trump called the leaders saying putin sounded dangerous and urging all four nations to stick together. in addition, according to two officia officials, during his call to putin last week, trump add t

quote, if you want to an arm's race i can do that but i'll win. >> so let's bring in carol lee here. tell us more about your reporting. >> what we're trying to figure out is what was happening inside the white house when these russia policy debates and decisions were being made because as we've all noted there's this serious divide between the public persona that the president puts on russia policies and we learned that there's a lot of confusion frankly and that the president has to be coerced in some instances for months to make certain policy decisions that his national security team wants him to mach such as the arms for y ukraine and once he does that, a normal press operation would say let's roll this out and message this and he doesn't want anyone to because he's trying to be touch on russia policy wise

while not angering putin because he holds out this hope that somehow that will help him get better relations and one interesting thing that officials told us is they've tried to flip that to mote vam him. they'll say you want better reslagss with russia, the way to do that is you knead to take these steps and thaets ookind of been a go-to move for them and that's helpful. >> yeah, there has been this disconnect and not just over the past few months but actually since january 20th, 2017, where there have been times where you've heard the secretary of defense continuing 50 years of u.s. policy towards russia m you've had the vice president going to eastern your honor and sounding more like ronald reagan than even barack obama would have maybe sounded like, a

traditional cold war hawk. same thing with nikki haley, she has never minced words. so there has always been the disconnect. is u.s. foreign policy -- i'll ask you this question first and we can try to get inside of donald trump's head and try to figure out why he's doing what he's doing, but is there really that much of a disconnect between u.s. policy today towards russia and when president obama was president. >> not that much. in some areas the policy is tougher. and that is the willingness to arm ukraine. it's where you know that a lot of us should have taken years ago and the president actually has a point where you don't want to trumpet it. it's not the sort of thing that you want to rub putin's face in it. you don't need a crisis over

ukraine. and that's the one that has everybody scratching their heads. but the brd outlines are continued. we continue to slightly reenforce the ability of nato. so i don't think it's a fundamental divide between happened before and what's happening now, it's just the president's unwillingness to take russia on in various do mains of what it's doing. >> so let's talk about the president himself. if the president believes as he believes, that one of the biggest mistakes barack obama made was dismissing russia as a regional power there by criticizing the united states president and all the leadership in russia and if he blaefs that and he does, is this a smart

move to -- to have a strong policy, but is -- can you even say this is what teddy roosevelt was talking about when he said speak softly and carry a big stick. >> again, showing the russians some respect i believe makes sense. it doesn't cost us anything. and they still can mach a difference. obviously in europe and ukraine and georgia and syria, there's no harm in slowing the russians some respect in talking with them. i want doesn't mach us smaller it doesn't cost us anything. but the story of the day it raises questions why would our response to the attempted murder in britain to have been kick out diplomats. they've now closed the american consulate so what are ewe going to do? this relationship now has less substance to it than at the

worst moment of the cold war. there's fewer diplomats. there hasn't been an american congressional delegation to russia in something like four or five years so i don't understand how this helps the grats. we've got to find ways of pushing back against russia but we don't want to eliminate our ability to conduct a normal reslar relationsh relationship. >> you had george w. bush talking about how he had looked into vladimir putin's yoeyes an could read his soul and then you have one listening to you and then putin, invaded the yukrain

and now you have donald trump who won't say anything about public putin perfectly, but he says he actually seems to be taking tougher policy stances at times that even barack obama did. this is a dysfunctional relationship and worse than it was at times during the cold war. >> it is inherently a kind of difficult relationship. after the cold war i think there's been a successive fail your to kind of figure out the outlines of a porkable relationship going forbard and a lot of that can be laid at the feet of vladimir putin too who is an ak toor in all of this and he has not done things that would encourage the administrations to come up with a reasonable workable relationship going forward.

but you know, you can -- i mean, lack at the relationship now though. i'd say it's more of untogether and crazy and uncertain than it has been even through the reset. even though you know, wait until after the election. you've got john huntman there, right? capable guy, very smart. really a china expert more than a russia expert but i'm sure he can do the job, by what is he supposed to do and bho is he supposed to do it with? it's just crazy. >> it's incredible. >> it is tough times, mika. john huntman, he's been in the foreign service for some time. he's a good man to have in moscow right now but again, what a difficult job. he has to have. >> possibly impossible and richard haas makes a great

point. is no what you want to be doing right now and you just fired your secretary of state. you worked on focus groups and this is important, given all the fascinating, troubling and really important questions pertaining to russia, you spoke with trump voters in tennessee and mississippi and here's some of what they had to say about russia and the russia investigation. >> i came from the days of the cold war. if we can find ways to coexist, i ame not going to say we're best butt dis, but let's find some neutral territory and see if we can't, i guess identify some mutual goals. >> trust me, the media is spending millions trying to find that link and no one's been able to. >> i think it's because they're afraid of it.

and the more mud you can stir, the easier it is to keep him from doing his job. >> yeah. some of the campaigning that this president and supporters is maybe paying off. >> they blame the media for bringing it to what they see as just a fever pitch of hysteria about -- for a president that they think is trying to get things done and the establishment is actively opposing him. and you look at how donald trump and his language on russia and his rhetoric about putin and his lack of skepticism of the

russian interference in the election and it really has trickled down. and one of the foe dus drupes where we were discussing the poisoning in london and one of the participants is saying it's too perfect that the russians would do that because they're the only one that manufacture that particular poison. and so that oogs kind of just the level of skepticism that is circulating about nug that's said that goes against the narrative that donald trump is presenting. you might remember he hesitated to necessarily finger london in that particular attack even though it was immediately fairly obviously that yes, the russians were involved. >> i would hesitate to comment on what these americans believe, but i do think democrats ought to take notes right now.

>> they're dead wrong. >> but there's a reason they're there. >> well, no, but they're dead wrong. i mane, they are entitled to their own opinions. and if they want the beingly ignorant of what's going on, if they think that 13 russians were indicted for the hell of out, they get the government that they deserve. there's no sticking your head in the sand. and again, it happens on both sides. large number of democrats back in 2005 and 2006 that believe that george w. bush took down the twin towers. said he was part of the conspiracy. well, yes, they had a right to bloefz that, but they were ig nornd and they were wrong. >> democrats have their heads in

the sand and this is pretty telling about their opinions on gun control. this you'll seize something else. take a listen. >> we have lots of guns in my house. my husband also as an ar-15 that we could take or leaf. >> there's not a age demographic that's causing this problem. i've got, you know torks i've got multiple weapons and assault weapons and everything and i enjoy shooting but i would be willing to have stricter background checks because i have kids in school too. >> some people might not agree with it but if you're doing something to prevent that from happening, give it your best shot. >> you know, this is, again as a guy that was born in georgia, went to college in alabama.

lived my formative years in mississippi and lived about 30 years in northwest florida or as we call it the red neck riviera. this is what i constantly hear from my friends that have been out hunting as i say, time and again since they were 5, 6, 7. i know there are, you know, fat white pink boys in suspenders in washington, d.c. or think tanks that have blogs that try to sound like gun warriors. they probably never -- probably never shot a gun. but everybody i know that's got 5, 6, 7, 10 guns in their house let's say we all do the same thing. yeah, let's raise the age limit. 's get rid of bump stocks. these are 80, 90% issues and not

just where yankees were talking. poem who i grew up with in mississippi, or are saying the same thing. >> i had really lobbied our group for a while to come to mississippi and tennessee. and to talk to voters there and particularly it was an interesting time just because it is such a flash point for the gun control debate. and in the first group we did in memphis, strong trump supporters, you know, looking around and my fath is a little agape but i was really surprised by the willingness for some reasonable measure of gun reform. all of these groups, at least half at a minimum had owned multiple guns and they really are just tired of the broken

government system of regulating guns in this country and how, you know, they see it as government being broken and while we do have laws on the book that need to be more well applied and to be utilized, they at the same time just do not see the logic of bump stocks, of the high volume magazines. there are things that they're willing to concede. >> you know, there's a reason why over the past several months i've been very careful not to talk about the nra. the nra is for this and for that and i always talk about three or four lobby u.s.s who run the washington arm of the nra lobbying organization who have radical views that are hoogly di ver jents from the ma jor toy of gun owners.

that's more of a 60/40 right now. but for people carrying signs saying down with the nra, the nra are the members of the nla and members have a few voint that fsh sometime has reason billion reasonable when it comes to background checks, banning bump stocks and now raising the auj to 21. >> well, yeah, i mean, first of all there's a big divergence between what the nra as an organize saegs believes. there's also a split between what the nra policy but i do think if you're going to fight this issue and you're going to undermine the power as a political force in american life it makes sense not to focus on -- i mane, you want to focus

on that fisher between those two things but i think focusing on the nra leader shirp makes a lot of sense if you're in the movement because that is in the end, regardless of everything else, those handful of people you're pointing to, those leaders still continue to be the place where political power has resided and we're starting to see that change, but you've got to try to break it at the top if you're going to break its. >> and that happens because there in washington, d.c. and thaw doll out checks to members of congress who can't take -- who don't have the courage to that i can their checks and still vote against them. there's a fox news poll that we put up, i mean, you look at these numbers even in this fox news roll and it's overwhelming where you talk about universal

background checks and you can go down that list and again, that's where most gun owners are right now. so it's -- again, so we're going to be talking, mika, coming up about the continued attacks against the young people who went through a trauma that of course none of us would ever -- would pray that none of our children ever had to go through. and that is, a massacre in their schools. my gosh. i've said itz before. i'll say it again. don't attack children. don't debate children that are survivors of a who rirvsurvive horrific massacre the oes of their lives. don't attack the children. >> they're grappling with the trauma. so from a mounting advertiser's boyco boycott, fox news had to apologize yesterday for comments

she tweeted about a survivor of the parkland school shooter. plus, president trump had a substantive conversation with david shulkin just hours before firing him. one of the ing things they didn't discuss was that he was about to be fured. >> it hate it when that happens. >> especially when a guy who says you're fired when he's straightforward. >> so we're going to talk to the former va secretary live straight ahead right here on "morning joe." it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need. in one place, anywhere we need it. help us do our jobs better. with domo we can run this place together.

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the legal team for adult film star stormy daniels may have suffered a temporary setback. a federal judge has denied a request to depose president trump as part of an ongoing

legal battle. the judge said the motion was premature because some questions may wind up being answered by a future petition from trump and his lawyer michael cohen. but the lawyer said he was pleased with the judge's ruling and that it is quote, not good for the president. >> the attorney for the attorney for donald trump might want his legal advice of his own after saying this on wednesday. >> it seems like a simple question, can you say unequivocally that the president was unaware of the 1 $130,000 o the agreement. >> he was never aware of the agreement and you asked a whole bunch of questions.

you asked about the days before. >> what about the money? >> he was not aware of any of it. he wasn't told about it. michael cohen left the option open to go to him he chose not to. >> i mean, everybody's just winging it. everybody is just winging it. >> and -- they're just going out talking, calling each other thugs, winning it inside the administration, outside the administration. that was the lawyer representing michael cohen in the stormy daniels claiming the president had no idea about the nondisclosure agreement. >> how many are there? >> jonathan turley, he says now that cohen's counsel, the

potential fallout as become even more serious and people do, related to this lawsuit and this administration, just seem to go on tv and wing it and in this case, just -- just playing it off the top of his head may have really cost -- or may have really undermined donald trump and michael cohen's best legal interest. explain why that is. >> it's painful to watch as n nar -- nascar. and those words undermine cohen rather dra mat click. suggesting that cohen cut this interest without speaking with him. which leads to questions about whether le made false representatio representations, whether he conferred with his client and that's on top of using his own money. but for president trump, this is a case of jumping out of the

frying pan into the fire. i mean, it helps him in trying to get out of a deposition with michael avenetti but it looks like the others as a political count count count country -- contributions. >> so i'll leave it to the experts as to what legal jeopardy this may be in x but i have to tell you, it appears he definitely missed the bet on that one. don donny, i've been talking about this as it pertains to how president trump thinks. i feel like this bothers him more than anything else.

i've never seen him go silent on anything. if a man or especially women that do anything that insuts them he tweets wildlessly. he has no problem lying on a daily basis and yet on this porn star and this alleged affair that seems to be sealed through a contract that keeps her silence, so something happened between the two of them. that's clear. >> yeah. >> there was a relationship. that's clear. there are pictures of them together and that's clear and there is this contract. this bothers him. explain to me about his personality that you know so well. >> it's a question where husband response is the wall. you know, whether the stock market is crashing or he's sleeping be porn stars or there's russian collusion, but there is something here, because as you point -- and i don't say anybody that knows more that trump for them to be so quiet

and not responding and you go, what else is there and kind of the bomb shell last week was when stormy goes on and says she was physically threatened and you wonder where does that go. what is balked in to him at this point, nobody cares whether you think that is fortunate or unfortunate, that he's sleeping with porn stars in some way it twisted to his mystique, the conquering man as go tes k as there is. and what happened yesterday particularly with cohen's spokes person/attorney basically putting trump in hot water, the other side is also obvious think the negation of that and now what else is going to come out? but there is something very, very funky in there. >> yeah, i mean, gene robinson has been silent over the past

five days. and now he's going down into seclusion for some rounds of golf, i suppose in march -a-lag. >> i suspect that in part it has to do with imminent and perm relationships. i mean he he has a wife, he has a young son, he has a family and there's a question that has been raised about whether there will other women out there with other ndas but a question for jonathan, where conceivably and i know i'm asking you something you probably can't answer, but where does he go? it seems like in any direction

he goes in with his legal argument now, the president and michael cohen, seems like every direction they go in, there's, you know, a monster waiting. there's bad stuff waiting. is there a path through all of this for them or -- or not? >> well, there is. i think they're ignoring the gratest risk. as a law to fes sore i feel guilty saying focus on the porn star, but that is his greatest risk and one of the things that confuses me about this, is why people on his team don't see that and why they're not acting. he needs to get out of the litigation. it should never have started. they made every wrong move they could make. it's like a student who does worse than random selection on multiple choice answers. you know, they should have never

gotten into this administration. this could clearly ma tast size from a civil to a criminal matter. now. >> reporter: what aes going to happen from the point on, the denial of his knowledge is going to give michael college is in already in serious trouble with the bar p but for now they have to deal with the fact lawyer gave 130,000 tlars to a porn star without ever ogetting the money back. the justice department has already said that can be a criminal matter. if bob mueller pulls the president in as he can to question him about it, you now have a threat for administration. >> if the president's looking at this, i just want to -- the

president looking at these two possible threats, right? if you're saying okay, i got two possibilities here. one is i'm going to get drawn into a campaign finance case. it's criminal, but it ends up focused on michael cohen. that's one side. the other side is we ebt up in the lifl litigation and i've got problems not just on this nda but there are others out there. there's a whole burge out there but trump is clearly giving the indication that he's afraid of what dwells in that area. let's just play the criminal piece here. lets's play that out and whether it be a campaign finance argument and let the focus being on cohen as opposed to theth p. >> that is part of the twisted

madness. he may have achieved the worse possible position on both sides. trump's counsel has intervened in the case, harder moved to take this to federal court so they rushed towards something they should have been away from and so it is still possible because this arbitration agreement does have a discovery provision, that there can be this request. i think the president could probably avoid a deposition at this point if he denies any knowledge, but the biggest problem he faces is going to be put our oath in any area whether it is mueller or whether it is this nda and to be asked about these relationships and these payments. the white house has already denied that he had any relationship, no matter how brief with this storm star. it moves him from a john edwards problem into a detention problem. bill clinton was too clever by

half and almost lost his presidency. >> the president's fixer fixers seems to be problems very much. and a history of attacking jeff sessions on twitter. will today be one of those days? after all the attorney general said no for a second special counsel. "morning joe" is coming right back. is it possible to save someone's life... from thousands of miles away? yes. thanks to the dedicated technicians at the american red cross... who worked with vmware... to develop technologies to help redirect the flow of blood to the areas and people needing it most. helping them recover... and refilling everyone with life-affirming hope.

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you know, mika, richard haas, when he called me up late last night and we are going over the show, he said i don't want to talk about russia. i don't want to talk about middle east. >> you were speaking in very hushes voices. >> i don't want to talk about foreign policy issues, i just want to talk about stormy daniels issues. >> would you stop calling? >> before 10:00 p.m. we spared him from weighing in, so up next we're going to give him a chance to talk about how john boll top and jum mattis broke the ice yesterday. no calling after 10:00 p.m.

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so defense secretary jim mattis met with president trump's new national security adviser john bolton at the pentagon yesterday and in an off mic moment had some fun with the rumors and talks surrounding bolton. >> ambassador bolton. >> mr. secretary, good to see you. >> thank you for inviting me over. >> thanks for coming good to finally meet you. i've heard that you're the devil incarnate, i wanted to meet you. >> of course if you're mad dog you want to meet the devil incarnate. so richard, what's happening here?

. give us insight into john bolton, a lot of conservatives are defending him saying he's a reasonable rational guy. i was surprised when james baker did the same thing, possibly circling the wagons but all of these kind words and this charm offensive can't overlook the fact that he's never gotten along with anybody in government. he's been an extraordinarily difficult person to deal with. do you have nice things to say about bolton today? everybody else does. >> shockingly enough i don't even though in the spirit of holy week i probably should but i don't. i worked with john. there's fundamental questions about hiss judgment. you have to iraq war not just then but now. you have his approach to north korea which i think is legally and strategically flawed. his approach to the iran agreement would leave us in a dangerous situation and there's big questions about his temperament and the reason the temperament matters so much is

the nature of this job. you can't allow your advocacy to get in the way of your willingness to be an honest broker. there's fundamental questions about whether john bolton is the right guy for this job but jim mattis is a pro. he's this -- you know, this off microphone conversation they knew would be listened to and it was his way of trying to finesse the situation. >> gene robinson, in the spirit of holy week, would you like to say kind flowery things about bolton? i suppose as a conservative if -- john bolton talking to barack obama would concern me less than john bolton talking to donald trump. >> exactly. >> this seems to be, again, not the contrast that you need in this position. >> exactly. john bolton is a loose cannon. he's hawkish and gung-ho and says things that are intemperate and sometimes crazy and guess

who he's going to be working for? donald trump. that's not a good combination and it seems more likely to reinforce the president's worst tendencies rather than rein them in and what this president needs is a whole lot of reining in. so in the spirit of holy week, however, happy easter to everybody but i'm not happy john bolton is going to be there. >> gene robinson, thank you very much. >> he tried to be positive. >> richard haass, thank you, i think. >> happy passover, everybody. >> happy passover. >> spirit of holy week. >> don't call. still ahead, in just one month president trump has lost his top economic adviser, top diplomat -- >> that's pretty bad. >> top lawyer in the russia probe. >> that's really bad. >> but don't worry, he has schwartzy. the fixer's fixer running his mouth. >> he's got the fixer's fixer

and the doctor that says he weighs 199 pounds, runs a 4:30.40 and can leap tall buildings in a single bound. >> now one of his closest aides hope hicks is gone as well. we'll talk to white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, about the anxiety in the trump administration following these departures. >> and the head of the v.a., gone. >> we'll also speak to the most recent white house official to be ousted, former v.a. secretary david shulkin will join the conversation coming up on "morning joe." they call him the whisperer. the whisperer? why do they call him the whisperer? he talks to planes. he talks to planes. watch this. hey watson, what's avionics telling you? maintenance records and performance data suggest replacing capacitor c4. not bad. what's with the coffee maker? sorry. we are not on speaking terms. ♪ ♪

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the doctor is there and hope hicks is out. john bolton is running national security and general mcmaster is heading for the door. kelly is marginalized and the president may become his own communications director. as the a.p. frames it, even after the departures, the west wing, anxiety still lingers. that's an understatement. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, march 30. john heil imagine ieeilemann is donnie joidonny deutsch and elise jordan. we also have jonathan lemire and chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker. good to have you on board. >> john heilemann, again, the chaos continues. we've been talking about how the chaos has seemed to accelerate. you've had bob costa reporting

throughout the week that republicans on the hill are saying enough is enough. quit changing cabinet officials that we're going to have to somehow confirm on the hill. talk about the chaos and the sense of anxiety that we're hearing about. >> i'm going to turn to jonathan lemire because he's written a whole piece about it but i will say if you think about your congressional republican right now you've gotten -- you did your big thing, now it's the end of march, you're looking toward the midterms in november. what has stretched out before you. on the legislative front, nothi nothing, there the stock market, volatility, the white house, volatility. there's no -- for all of 2017, you are looking at the tax cuts saying we're going to get to this big wish list item that's

got to be worked on, that was oasis in the desert. now there's this one. you look at what's been going on in every race we've seen, the picture looks bad. then you look at paul ryan. the speaker of the house who now i believe it's march 30 today, right? march 30. >> right, march 30. >> still hasn't announced he's running for reelection. he's the speaker of the house of representatives. the most important republican, he's not declared he's going to seek reelection in his seat in wisconsin which is a sign for a lot of republicans that, hey, my god, the speaker understands we're about to lose the house and he's about to throw up his hands and walk away. how freaked out are they by everything going on, including donald trump is just throwing up more and more chaos? i think they're freaked out,

right, jonathan lemire? >> yes, john heilemann. [ laughter ] >> it would have been great if he said no, you're wrong, you're a moron. >> everything's tool, airtight, no problem. >> what we saw yesterday is hope hicks, the president's -- one of his longest serving aides and one of his closest advisers leave the white house. in a nice moment. the president brought her outside the oval office, there was a hand shake, a kiss on the cheek, hicks has always shied away from publicity, had a moment in the spotlight and a nice good-bye. that's the exception rather than the rule when it comes to white house exits. she was not fired by tweet. she was not fired by a cursory curt phone call by john kelly as david shulkin was a few days prior and there's real anxiety about what could come next. there are cabinet members on the hot seat for ethics question whether it's carson or zinke or pruitt. there's a battle about the next

communications director in case the president himself has floated this idea. and there's still jeff sessions who's always in the president's cross hairs and in particular not just because he didn't appoint a special counsel, at least not yet, but he made the grievous sin on appearing on the cover of "time" magazine which we know is the president's favorite publication, he got very upset when steve bannon was on the cover last year, i was talking to someone who knows the president very well yesterday who said in the past trump has said to him that he kind of gets miffed when he's not on the cover every single week. >> well he can make make his own. >> i've got a question. i didn't know steve bannon was on the cover of "time" magazine. >> yes, he was. and trump didn't like that. >> i never knew that. yes, but the president can always make his own. it's fine, don't worry. >> it's fine, you can make your own. he has made his own.

>> so listen peter baker, who is the next to go, what do you made make of the uncertainty around -- well, there is going to be someone who's going to go and it will be a massive news deflection but whatever. if the pattern continues there will be more people marching out the door which should be frightening to an extent given the fact that this is a white house with a state department with so many jobs that aren't filled across the globe that we have serious implications. but back to the white house sbreg and the drama here trying to understand what's going on. is john kelly perhaps in jeopardy? does the president think he can be his own white house communications director? and hope hicks leaving, there's been lots of fanfare around that. i'm not sure who gets this weird awkward good-bye in the port go. i've never seen that before. maybe i missed it. and the talk about her being trump's whisperer and a moderating force and gracious,

she was able to keep him from doing things that were too extreme. good god, if that's true, what's going to happen now? because i think that might be overplayed like ivanka. >> to some extent, obviously, she was obviously a well-liked figure that white house by all the different tripes, all the different factions that were constantly fighting with each other. for the most part she was one of the people who crossed those lines and she moderated the president to some extent. she also enabled him to some extent. she tried to figure out how to channel his wishes and desires into action when he wanted to meet with reporters, she would be the one who would set it up. when he felt strongly about an issue, she would be the one who would help him express it. i think she tried to keep him from going too far but as you point out anybody in that white house who has tried to restrain this president has seen the limits of their capacity to do that. and you're right, it's the west

wing where everybody is wondering if the chandelier is going to fall on their head today. it's friday, we've got nine, ten hours till the end of the work day. who will be here when we walk out the door. nobody is 100% sure. >> nobody knows for sure. donny deutsch, let's talk about what's working for the president and not working for president. john heilemann is dead right. you have a sense of a panic on capitol hill among republicans. they see that their matchups against democrats are going as badly as possible. you have republicans retiring left and right. they know this fall is going to be brutal race and yet donald trump's numbers are creeping up in the high 30s, the low 40s. this is not really hurting donald trump and this theory of chaos is not hurting trump himself and, of course, the irony is if he completely

destroys the republican party this fall, which he's going to do most likely, then he empowers democrats who they can then run against in 2020 so while donald trump may be destroying the republican party, if the history is any guide, this play be playing right into his hands for a successful reelection run. >> you go back to elise's focus group. we all run around here and get very excited and our pants get on fire, at least my pants get on fire with russian collusion and is john kelly in or out and what not and to the average american it's how's my job doing. to even the higher end it's how is the stock market doing. are terrorists blowing anything up. you have to begrudgingly outside of all of the human absurdities and deplorable things, i hate to use that word, that was a very bad word for somebody, you have to give him a decent score

card -- whether it's his fault or not -- on some of the ways we judge the presidency, the unemployment, the stock market, consumer confidence, some of the other things. where are we standing in the world right now? >> isis. >> i hate to say it but the way america scores things and the way we score things are different and if donald trump ran for reelection he would win big and that is something we have to manage and if i'm on the dnc side of things i'm looking very hard at that. >> elise, your focus group is fascinating and what i always find and i found it over the past few weeks, when i get out of new york and i get out of washington and i talk to my friends i all hear the same things which, yes, i supported him. did you expect me to vote for hillary clinton? and yes i still support him because do you expect me to support nancy pelosi? it's always a binary choice and

then i say okay so conducting my own sort of casual focus groups, okay so are you offended by x,yz and they go yes, yes, yes. and the take away i always get is most people that i talk to don't like him. they are offended by his actions. they think he's a terrible example for their children. they wouldn't even the guy over his house for thanksgiving dinner and yet they like his policies, they like his approach on regulations, they like the tax cuts, they like that we're beating isis, and they hate the media. and they don't give a damn about russia. is that basically what you found? >> joe, that really tracks with what we heard and we can play more audio of voters, trump supporters talking about how they're really tired of the tweeting, they don't have any

respect for his character but they weren't trying to elect a saint. that's what one woman specifically said. she's not -- and i think right now we're going to play some of that audio. >> he gets stuff done and i voted against hillary and i voted for him because i believed he would get more stuff done as president. >> there's certain things i want done on our economy and work to protect our shores, i don't care about that. that's between them and god. one of the worst presidents we had recently was carter and he was one of the most porl presidents but one of the most ineffective. >> we didn't elect him to be a saint, we elected him to be a leader. >> elise, i get the sense from the people i talked to and i'm sure you do, too, we'll talk and

southern terminology. he's like their coach. kind of like yes if you're at louisville you hated rick pitino when he coached at the university of kentucky but when rick pitino became louisville's coach, suddenly he was okay. that didn't work out very well for them and this won't work out very well for america. and the question i ask what is mark cuban ran for as a republic republican? and the people behind trump they'd say of course we'd vote for mark cuban. >> the republican party identification label is under strain even with the strongest trump supporters because they blame congress, the republican congress for donald trump's inability to not get more done. they just feel that so much of the establishment is out to get him so thus he is given a pass and they repeatedly we heard the

economy is better, we feel like isis is being taken on, that he's going out and killing terrorists and as long as that's happening then we -- you know, the personal, it might not be what we want our children to immolate but we can really disconnect the personal and the actual policies that the we feel donald trump is implementing to make our lives better. >> so peter baker, it's heilemann here, i want to ask you this question to bring a couple pieces together. we've talked about these things related to points donny is making, objective metrics by which we normally judge presidents that trump is doing okay and that his approval ratings are creeping up amid this chaos. at the same time, the main event, the central story in our politics is trump versus mueller and we had a poll on this show a few days ago that showed an extraordinary degree of public support for what mueller is doing across the board.

huge number of depths, huge number of independents and a substantial majority of republicans who say they want to see mueller investigate to the end and find out what happened and they have trust and faith and confidence making it a difficult target for trump to take on. how do you reconcile some of -- that picture? the notion that the country is behind bob mueller and they seem to not care about russia. >> it's a great question. bob mueller handled this in a different way than ken starr did. ken starr became such a magnet for criticism, people assumed he was obsessed by his investigation and there were leaks coming out and bob mueller has run a tight ship. it's hard to latch on to anythi anything, the president sought to make a point that the staff

were democrats, but bob mueller is a life long republican, appointed by republican president to be the fbi director and is held in high regard by republicans and democrats in washington so he's been a hard figure, i think, for trump to attack. that's why you've seen this back-and-forth on this from time to time. he's lashed out, the president has, but now he's gone away on this issue so you're right, the public is probably not paying attention to who george papadopoulos is and whether the fisa court properly issued a warrant against carter page. but they think there's something going on and according to polls and they want a solid answer from somebody they can truth who they don't think is partisan. for the moment, bob mueller is that figure. >> and of course you can say the same thing, mika, about watergate. most americans didn't care about watergate until the middle of

1974. and i just have to say this every time where we talk about some of bob mueller's team have contributed to democrats, add that money up, none of them have given close to how much donald trump gave to the democratic national committee, noepancy pelosi, chuck schumer. ra >> still ahead, former secretary david shulkin says the white house kept him from speaking out about taxpayer dollars. now he's gone from government and not holding anything back. the former cabinet official is standing by and joins us live next on "morning joe." st years'n was a success for choicehotels.com badda book. badda boom. this year, we're taking it up a notch. so in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like,

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i also want to say secretary

shulkin is implementing dramatic form throughout the v.a. i have no doubt it will be implemented properly. right, david? better be, david. [ applause ] we'll never have to use those words. we'll never have to use those words on our david. >> that was the president back in june. clearly some things have changed. joining us now, the outgoing secretary of veterans affairs, david shulkin, thank you very much for big on the show this morning. it was very different than hope hicks portico kiss good-bye. you were not notified by the president himself, i believe the same thing happened with mcmaster, who got a phone call from someone else. how did your departure -- how did you find out you would be

leaving the white house? >> shortly before the president tweeted out, the chief of staff gave me a call to led me know and gave me a heads up. >> so you were -- kelly told you and then you found out by tweet? >> yes. >> fantastic, so as you leave the cabinet behind, big picture, what are you most concerned about having served in there, seen the dynamics, worked with this president and obviously you're hearing about the investigations closing in or building up in the media surrounding this white house. what are you most concerned about given what you have seen on the inside. >> as you know, i came from the private sector, i was asked by president obama to help straighten out the v.a. so i only have one concern and that is to fix this system for those who have served us and i am very concerned about the future of v.a. and to make sure that this organization stays on track with the type of progress we've been making and that it's not

hijacked and dismantled and that's my biggest concern because our veterans need to rely upon a system that cares for them when they put their lives on the line for the country. >> why are you concerned it will be hijacked and dismantled? >> i think there are clear forces that are trying to suggest a v.a. system is not necessary, that the private sector can handle all of the care for our veterans. and we're caring for more than nine million american veterans and many of them have specialized needs. there's research being done by v.a. that no one else is doing and this is a system that is essential not only for veterans but the national security of our country. >> why were you fired? >> there were forces in place, political appointees, that didn't like the way i was managing the department. as you probably know, i believe the v.a. needs to be apolitical, that we have to do things with

bipartisan support. i'm very proud of our leadership in congress, we got 11 bills passed last year to improve the v.a. and many believe i should have been driving the much more towards a private sector or privatization approach. >> was trump behind that? >> well, i think the president, as he said, is genuine, he wants to do better for veterans. i don't think he's aware of all of the particular political forces in play at v.a. nor do i expect he would know that detail so i don't think there was a direct knowledge of all these issues but clearly these were political appointees coming out of the administration. >> do you think the president has the intellectual ability to grasp the issues surrounding the v.a., the military and our foreign policy? >> i think the job of the president is a big job with lots

to do and understanding the complexity of what happens in v.a. is a very tough thing to do so i don't know that he's had the time to invest in understanding the details. nor should he. he should have a secretary whose job it is. obviously he wanted to make this change, that's his prerogative. but this is a very complex organization, the second largest government organization. >> do you think the president is fit to lead? >> i think that the president has a tough job and it's important that he surround himself with people that have the ability to lead that can do this. and obviously i've described that i think that washington is very chaotic, very, very tough environment, it should not be this hard to come in to serve and that makes me very concerned about what will happen in the future. >> john heilemann? >> mr. secretary, it's john

heilemann. the question of your job security has been in the news for a month or so now, a few weeks ago -- i know you went in for a meeting at the white house with the chief of staff and the president, some of the reporting that came out of that meeting suggested your view was part of your problem was that you were being undermined in a conspiratorial way by trump appointees on your staff and you lost trust in people who were placed around you in the department. is that right? >> that is part of what we discussed, that's correct. we spent most of the time discussing the policy issues in v.a. but both of those issues were discussed. >> what were the concerns that general kelly expressed to you that day. what was it that made them say if you don't start doing x y and z, you may be fired.

so what were the concerns? >> that's not what happened in the meeting. there was no implied threat. we had a very positive meeting talking about what we needed to do to get the department back on its focus to make sure it was committed to making improvements and part of that is to give the control to the leader of the organization so it was a good meeting where we were ae lined in the outcome. >> so it's a little confusing. if you were aligned in the outcome, now you're out of a job three weeks later so it's clear -- it's also clear there's some difference of opinion about what's at the root of this. you seem to think this ig report about your travel has been mischaracterized, it seems like the white house is hanging a lot of its displeasure on you that you behaved inappropriately in that instance and other instances. try to clarify me. in the context of the broader

reporting that we've seen, i think people are confused about where the truth lies. >> well, washington is a confusing place. people are playing lots of games and there's no-no doubt there are many messages out there. this issue of the ig report, frankly not an issue from my perspective. everything was approved ahead of time done in the way where ethics gave me the approval. six months later the ig took a look and found the staff member had done something wrong. i had no knowledge of that. this is about the future of v.a., the privatization of v.a. the president gets lots of opinions and ultimately he has to make up his mind about the direction and leadership of an organization important to the country like v.a. and that's something that you saw he wanted to make a change and that's his prerogative but my concern is the same one that led me to come here in the first place, to see

this system fixed and do better for our veterans. >> there's a lot of talk about trump's management style or engagement that he does not read and that he does not have command of the issues. can you take us behind the scenes of a meeting that you had with trump as far as his level of understanding engagement, when you were talking about nine million veterans, when you were talking about the veterans administration do you get a sense he has an understanding of the two or three or four issues at hand or is it just what we see and what the talk is behind the scenes that there is no real engagement there. >> let me try to be fair. when you meet with the president it's a limited amount of time that you have so you're talking about complex issues in a short period of time. he is very inquisitive, asks a lot of questions, but it's not my expectation that he is going

understand the intricacies of the v.a. >> did he understand the basic simple principles you were trying to make moves on? >> i do think he understood what i was trying to do. he understood that i believed that we had a lot of fix and he wants to do things faster and sometimes not having a full understanding of the complexities can be frustrating and i'm sure the president was frustrated that more change wasn't happening faster. >> mr. secretary, jonathan lemire. your successor dr. ronny jackson, the white house physician, is someone well liked by people within this white house and the obama white house. most americans simply know him as the gentleman who stood at the podium and delivered the results of the president's physical a few months ago, including some results that raised some eyebrows. my question to you is, though he is well liked, he has no experience running any sort of

large organization or bureaucracy. do you think he is qualified to do this job? >> well, i do agree with what you've said. i know dr. jackson personally, i have a great deal of respect for him. i think he has the right values and frankly being comfortable with the president and the president trusting a leader is essential in this administration. that chemistry is absolutely important. i don't think anybody's necessarily prepared for a job this big. i know how complex it is. i think dr. jackson is going to need a good team around him to help him be successful. i think that that's going to be the key in building this. the v.a. right now does not have an undersecretary for health, does not have an undersecretary for benefits, does not have a chief information officer. this is a complex job with a full team in place and that's going to be essential for dr. jackson to build a strong team around him. >> mr. secretary, elise jordan here. going back to your meeting at the white house with general

kelly and president trump, did they specifically ask about the ethics violations mentioned in the inspector general report? >> well, before the report was released i made sure i gave them an opportunity to ask any questions that they had and i think we went through that together. >> so you don't think that the lingering issue surrounding the inspector general report played a role in your firing? >> i think that the political appointees used this as a reason to try to question my authority for leadership. i think that this was -- what we see in washington today, allegations thrown out there to get us away what from the issues are. i stayed focus, i don't do politics, i'm a doctor, i stayed focused on the issues related to

veterans. that's what i was interested in. other people are interested in playing political games. that's not what i do. >> >> mr. secretary, you've talked about political appointees perhaps having a hand in pushing you out and you talk about the job being really hard and washington being difficult. isn't this ultimately on the president? isn't this ultimately president trump that you were talking about in terms of washington being an impossible place to work, the president not being able to cognitively understand his job and having operatives around that are pushing different concepts and getting in the way of progress? how can you not put this back on president trump? >> well, look, ultimately everything goes up to the leader and there's no question about it. i take responsibility for the things that happened in v.a. as secretary and the president certainly has the ultimate

responsibility. you saw that he felt that the decision to make a change at the secretary level was the one that he wanted to do. i understand how complex this organization is and i think that we all as americans need to follow carefully what will happen in the future and what will happen in terms of our country's commitment to taking care of these brave men and women and this is the reason i'm speaking out. i'm not running for office. i feel very, very strongly that we need to stay on track and strengthen the v.a. and if we don't do that there will be serious consequences for the country. >> secretary david shulkin, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> glad to be here. still ahead, what happens when you pick a fight with one of the twitter-savvy survivors of the parkland school shooting. you end up apologizing. the latest on laura ingraham's mea culpa. "morning joe" is coming right

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fox news's lawyer ing laura apologized yesterday for taunting a survivor of marjory

stoneman douglas shooting amid a boycott by advertising. uproar rose when ingraham mocked david hogg's recent college rejection and his 4.1 gpa on twitter wednesday. in response, hogg encouraged his followers to call ingraham's top advertisers to drop the show. by thursday, nine companies had confirmed they were pulling their ad dollars, prompting the fox news host to apologize tweeting "in the spirit of holy week, i apologize for any upset or hurt my tweet caused him or any of the brave victims of parkland. as always, he's welcome to return to the show any time for a productive discussion." hogg was unimpressed by the apology telling the "new york times" "she only apologized after we went after her advertisers. it kind of speaks for itself." owe? >> donny deutsch -- first of

all, let's talk about his gpa, a 4.1, 4.2. i think it's safe to say if you added your gpa in high school, my gpa in high school and mika's gpa in high school, all three of us together would not get up to a 4.1 or 4.2 so i'm not sure who mocks any student for being that good of a student. that said just generally -- i'm just talking generally here. i haven't understood for some time politically while -- why anybody would attack young students, high school children, i call them children because i've got -- >> babies. >> i've got kids that are older than they are. who thinks that attacking children, who thinks that spreading false information about children which has not

only been spread on conspiracy sights but also on mainstream media sights, who thinks that is going to help them get ahead politically when it's so obvious it's only going to blow up in their faces? >> let's add on attacking children who are two weeks out from hiding under their desk or watching their friends be shot by an automatic weapon. so if you can't have empathy or sympathetic behavior or parental human behavior towards children in general, particularly children coming off a horrific trauma, laura ingraham told lebron james to shut up and dribble and laura ingraham needs to shut up and dribble also. she's a reprehensible human being. and the good news here is the advertisers will speak. you might see laura ingraham saying bye-bye. today -- i'll take you behind the scenes of every ceo right now that advertises on her show. they have in front of them already letters saying dear mr. ceo of pepsi -- i'm not saying

pepsi is on there -- are you choosing to stand by laura ingraham? so it's no longer are you part of the debate. if you're endorsing her, you're endorsing her behavior saying this is okay to dump on millennials, this is okay to insult children who have been through a tragedy and any ceo at this point, i don't care where you are politically is going to call up their chief marketing officer and say you know that $400,000 you spent on ingraham, even if you don't take it off fox, move it over. no longer can say "i'm defending that." now it's i'm defending that behavior. so the same way bill o'reilly was -- >> but donny, let me ask you this question. we all make mistakes, i can't imagine ever attacking a young child after they went through this hell but we've all made mistakes. isn't the first thing we ask of people when they make a mistake to say i'm sorry?

she apologized and it wasn't one of these halfway apologieapolog was like in the spirit of holy week, i'm sorry. >> it's the timing. >> here's the difference, joe. we are all going to make mistakes. when it's serial behavior and the apology was only for one reason, she was losing advertisers. her behavior stands for itself we can argue about politics but there's just human decentsy we can't have animals on the air attacking children. we can disagree on taxes, on donald trump, on a wall, but basic human decency. enough already. >> john heilemann, it seems there's been a problem at fox over the past six months or so

regarding -- like for instance the seth rich murder. sean hannity went on and on with it when he knew that it was false. he had people come on the show and promote it after he'd already been told it was a lie bringing just immeasurable pain to that family. certainly it's something i know about because people have used the pain of a family, the unspeakable pain of a family to try to attack me when they're not hurting me, they're hurting a family. and so you have lawsuits being filed against sean hannity and fox news. i'm just wondering whether actually the president always talks about wanting to make it easier to sue people. i wonder if maybe this becomes the solution that when people step over the line that actually it's tried in the court of law. >> well, i don't know.

i'm not a big fan of the notion -- i like our libel laws, it's good for the country and good for the press that it's hard to sue a media organization for libel and you have to prove malice and so on and if you can make that case, you should make it. i will say that i think what's interesting about the fox news piece of this, joe, is that they used to have i think a pretty good idea of who their audience was and where the lines were. what kinds of provocations worked with their base and that they could engage in that wouldn't go over the line and draw them into a place where they were going to the incur economic penalties and other kinds of political penalties. on both the seven rich thing and in this case it's like they overshot the landing. they seem to not get that where you can -- what they can get away with in the context, in that bubble they live in in where they are -- where they put a foot wrong where they can

really get cross wise with mainstream opinion in a way that costs them much more power than any any kind of legal judgment that can be brought against them is the kind of thing donny is talking about. that's what hurts bill o'reilly, that's what hurts laura ingraham when these sponsors decide these guys are beyond the pale. they used to know where they line was, now they find themselves on the wrong side of it. i can't help but think that part of the explanation for it is trump because they are -- they have -- it's one thing to be a propaganda wing of the republican party. it's another thing to become a propaganda wing of the tru trumpified republican party where conspiracy theory and fabrication and fake news and things beyond the pale are so much part of what donald trump's republican party thrives on. that now is what fox news being part of that ecosystem is being

dr dragged into and it realizes there's risk to the basic business model if they keep going in this direction. >> well, certainly there's some issues with hannity and ingram obvio -- ingraham plays out. >> it's personal relationships with the president they're navigating. >> she did apologize. we'll see how that plays out. you have other people in fox news, though, this is a prime time issue. i've always said when people talk about msnbc, i've said there's day side, there's our show. sort of like the front of the paper and then you have prime time and those are the opinion pages. that's something thatsh shep smh has pointed out at fox news, bret baier does a great job, chris wallace does it straight up. but there is no doubt, mika that there are some challenges in prime time right now as it

pertains to going up to the line and sometimes stepping over the line. roger ailes with glenn beck knew when it was time to pull glen el bakraoui and also knew when it was time to send glen backpacking. and that's one of the questions i'm sure fox is grappling with. coming up, president trump was no fan of jeff sessions' decision to recuse himself from the russia probe. now the attorney general made another move that may set off his boss. that's ahead on "morning joe." and we want to mention our compelling interview with pulitzer prize winning author lawrence wright. he produced a new drama "the looming tower" based on his best-selling book. it's a ten-part mini series available on hulu and ties directly with the larger conversation about the state of u.s. intelligence and the u.s. intelligence community. you can find our full interview with lawrence wright right now on joe.msnbc.com.

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attorney jeff sessions jeff sessions told congress he will not appoint a second special counsel. republicans had been calling for it over allegation s over political bias in the fbi favoring hillary clinton. >> i've got to stop again. >> i know, every time. >> i know we want to read this story. will someone tell the republican party, will someone tell the republican leaders on capitol hill. will someone tell nunez on capitol hill that comey he's letter ten days before the election was one of the main reasons donald trump one and actually mccabe's leak hurt hillary clinton. >> they can't do that, joe. >> it's madness. i mean, there's so much to say here. i want to ask john, sessions, in

all of this, there's the issues of recusal. should he even be involved in the conversation or not. is he safe? >> he is safe for now. being on the cover of time magazine as discussed probably didn't help. president trump a lot of republicans wanted the special counsel. sessions has not ruled it out entirely. he had said he appointed federal prosecutor from utah to conduct a review and eventually will give a recommendation whether a special counsel should be appointed. >> jonathan, we're talking about again about carter page whose action leading up throughout 2016 when donald trump told "the washington post" in the spring he was his top foreign policy adviser, that would raise questions from anybody and you had four republican appointed fisa judges actually sign off on

this. >> there's no question this is a belief it's simply an attempt to distract. you try to equate this with the bob mueller probe. the republicans could point to this and say look, there's krum corruption here. there's bias here. therefore it muddies the water and undermines the credibility of what mueller is doing. that is what democrats feel and trump of course wants this to happen to this point sessions remains in hot water with the president has held him off. >> mika, if anything, there was bias against hillary clinton in the final stages of the campaign with the letter and also with mccabe's leak which talked about the clinton foundation being investigated and almost like the fbi was pushing back on what they thought was improper interference from loretta limyn. they leaked time, and, again, saying they didn't appreciate barack obama getting involved in the investigation by saying

there was nothing there time and time again. the fbi did donald trump's bidding whether they intended to or not. >> jonathan, thank you. still ahead, russia is expelling dozens of diplomats and closing american consulate in st. petersburg and nothing, but sadness from the president. new reporting donald trump is telling his aides not to talk about russia. bring in a new exclusive reporting. plus hear from trump voters on what they think about the russia probe and the mueller probe. "morning joe" will be right back. to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. ♪ oh and at fidelity, you'll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. ♪ just remember what i said about a little bit o' soul ♪

things are just clearer. want us to do about what woulthis president?fathers i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack the justice department just indicted 13 russians for an electronic attack on america. so what did this president do? nothing. he's failed his most important responsibility - to protect our country. the question is: why is he still president?

you saw those beautiful pictures. it's properly designed. that's what i do is i build. i was always very good at building. it was always my best thing. i think better than being president, i was good at building. like you people, you're good at building. actually the military is paying for it. did he do that chant yesterday? i'm wondering he said who is

going to pay for it? is united states marine corps. >> he didn't do that one after a week of seclusion. president trump hitting the trail to talk specifically, specifically about infrastructure. and also row san and tv ratings and fake news. sanne and tv rat and fake news. rose ann donny deutsche is with us. elise jordan is here. president of the counsel on foreign relations and author of the book a world in disarray, richard haas. prize winning columnist, eugene robinson is with us. and national political reporter for nbc news bringing more news this morning, karl lcarol lee. seems almost certain the day long silence was prompted by stormy daniels last sunday on 60

minutes. new details in the porn star's push for her lawyer to question president trump for two hours. plus, how 56 words may have just sunk the trump team's position in the stormy daniels' litigation. it all stems from a sound bite we played on the show yesterday. it's the attorney's attorney. yeah, he ran his mouth. i don't know why they let him talk. we're going to dig into that with law professor straight ahead. >> of course. we'll have him talking -- first, i got to go back to donald trump's speech. it is so fascinating and donny deutsche, you're a marketing guy. it's so fascinating his punch line was we're going to build a wall. who is going to pay for it, mexico. gets a budget deal he absolutely hates. because nobody is going to pay for the wall. donald trump is trying to get the united states marine corp., united states navy, men and women in the army, and the air

force, the national guard to actually have money stripped out of their accounts to build a wall that nobody wants. he actually goes out there and he has the audacity to say, hey, we've got this beautifully designed wall and i told you we were going to build it. we're not building it. and i'm sure the american people certainly the good people of ohio, obviously know he's lying. the question is how long does this lie continue because mexico is not paying for the wall. he didn't even get the funding and his own republican allies saying we don't need that money. basically i will continue to be

your white president to protect white america from the immigrants out there. it will never go away. he can get re-elected. it can be six years from now and that is his probably number one whistle blow to always say here i am, 30%. here i am 35%. i'm not going anywhere. we're going to protect you from all of the bad people of different colors that come into this country and the irony of the whole thing is he's mr. defense. mr. military. mr. veteran. and by the way, if i have to feed my friend harvey, i'll take it from the military. >> i'm going to strip it out of the military readiness account. we' it seems sometimes when your lawyers, lawyers, lawyers start talking, you get in trouble and that's exactly what jonathan has said. that when we played the clip yesterday and when donald trump's lawyer's lawyer came out and said what he said a couple

of days ago, well, actually he undermined trump's case and cohen's case against stormy daniels and his attorney. >> and joe, look, there's various things to say about the specifics of this. i'm sure i'm going to talk about it today. just ends up getting back to this -- the fundamental thing which is donald trump's in the same ways he says he has the best words and hires the best people. he's in a world of legal difficu difficulty. he has nothing like the best people around him. he's got essentially the not even the b team, but the c team of legal talent on both his private matters and his government matters and eventually when you surround yourself with mediocre talent, as we all know, eventually they will lead you into trouble. that seems to be happening on both sides. happening now on the thing that poses a threat to him, to his

presidency, and also on the thing that poses what he is most personal about. things that took place outside his marriage. >> so many people in trouble right now in the mueller investigation. in trouble in part because they were winging it because they were just thinking they were smarter than everybody else when they were more ignorant than anybody i also on how you run a transition. how you run the white house. they made a lot of really stupid mistakes. paul manafort stands alone as someone who actually used this. as a business policy. business structure to do deals with russia. so many other people in the administration got in trouble because they were just winging it.

to say donald trump knows nothing about this deal with stormy daniels. in so doing, tell us why, they probably sunk their defense and probably now blown apart twhat donald trump wants to desperately take place. >> they'll say he's not an attorney. he doesn't know. then why put him out there. it all comes together very badly in a case pertaining to a woman who has a story. who has a real contract. it's not going to go well. i can assure anyone who is concerned about that or who has a different idea. we're going to get to all of that. first, overnight, russia's defense ministry released video of what it says is a test of a new heavy icbm called sarmat. adding it was successful. one of the missiles putin showcased during his speech

earlier this year. comes after russia yesterday announced retaliatory measures against the united states. expected move comes after the u.s. expelled 60 russian spies and closed russia's seattle consulate in response to poisoning of exspy and daughter in the uk. -spy and daughter in the uk. in addition to closing of kons late in st. petersburg. ordering it shutdown by tomorrow. multiple senior officials tell nbc news that trump has told aides not to talk about public moves the white house implements against russia. according to officials the reasoning stems from continued hope for better relations with putin in addition to ongoing refusal to be seen as giving

into the media or critics who question his praise or silence towards the russian leader. for instance, after it was announced the u.s. will supply weapons to you craukrane ukrain it really got under the president's skin. and trump proceeded to call the leaders of france, germany and uk saying putin sounded dangerous and urging all four nations to stick together according to white house officials familiar with the calls. in addition, according to two officials, during trump's call to putin last week, adding if you want to have an arms race, we can do that, but i'll win.

then bragged about america's defense budget. >> trying to figure out what is being talked about when debates and decisions are made. there's a serious divide between the per son that he puts forward on the policy and actual policy. the president has to be coerced for months to make decisions that his team wants him to make such as arms for ukraine. once he does that in normal press operation would say let's roll this out and message this. he doesn't want anyone to. he's trying to do this thing where he wants to be tough on russia policy-wise under pressure from advisers while not angering putin because he holds

out this hope it will help him get better relations. one interesting thing officials told us is they tried to flip that to motivate him to say great, you want to have better relations with russia, the way to do that is show strength. that's what putin responds to. you need to take these steps. that's been a go to move for them. that's been helpful. >> richard, there has been this disconnect. not just over the past few months. there's been times you heard the secretary of defense continuing 15 years of u.s. policy towards russia. you had the vice president going to eastern europe and sounding more like ronald reagan than even barack obama would have maybe sounded like in traditional cold war. same thing with nikki haley at

the united nations. never minced words. is there really a disconnect between u.s. policy today towards russia and barack obama or george w. bush was president. >> in substance, not that much. some areas the policy is tougher compared to the obama administration. that is thing withnee willingne ukraine. a significant step. one a lot of us thought we should have taken years ago. we welcome in that. the president has a point. it's not the sort of thing you want to rub putin's face in it. do it quietly. the inexapplicable part of this possible is the unwillingness to

deal with the russian interfere interference in the political process. i don't think it's a fundamental divide between what happened before and what's happening now. it's just the president is unwillingness to take russia on. in various domains of what he's doing. >> still ahead on morning joe, you can argue that democrats have their heads in the sands during the 2016 election. are republicans at risk of doing the same thing now? we're hearing from voters firsthand and we'll play that next on "morning joe."

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welcome back. speaking with trump voters in

tennessee and mississippi. here's some of what they had to say about russia and the russia investigation. >> i come from the days of the cold war. if we can find ways to coexist. i'm not saying we're going to be best buddies, but let's find neutral territory and see if with can't identify some mutual goals. >> trust me, trump media been a million. trying to find that link. no one has been able to. makes me wonder if there is a link. >> i personally it's because of the media. the more mud you can stir the easier it is to keep him from doing his job. >> yes. it's some of the -- campaigning this president and his supporters have participated in seems to be paying off.

>> well, you know, the focus in these focus groups, the trump supporters we spoke to overwhelmingly really see the russia investigation as a witch pu hunt. they blame the media for gemming it up and bringing it to a fever pitch of hysteria about poor president they think is trying to fe get things done and the establishments is actively opposing him. you look at how donald trump and his language on russia and his rhetoric about putin and his lack of skepticism of the russia interference and election. and it really has trickled down to his strongest supporters, and, you know, we didn't play this clip, but there is a moment in one of the focus groups where we were discussing the poisoning in london and one of the participants is telling us, it's just too obvious. it's too perfect that the russians would do that because they're the only ones that

manufacturer that particular poison. it couldn't be them because it's too obvious. that's kind of the just the level of skepticism that is circulating about anything that is said that goes against the narrative that donald trump is presenting. you might remember he hesitated, the president did, to necessarily finger london in that particular attack. even though it was immediately fairly obvious that, yes, the russians were involved. >> i would hesitate to comment on what these americans believe, but i do think democrats ought to take notes right now. >> by the way, i won't hesitate. they're dead wrong. they're dead wrong. >> at least they're there. >> and they're dead wrong. they are entitled to their own opinions. they're not entitled to their own facts. if they want to be willingly ignorant of what's going on. if they think 13 russians were

indicted for the hell of it and that was fake news, you know what, then they get the government that they deserve. there's no sticking your head in the sand. again, it happens on both sides. there were a large number of democrats back in 2005 and 2006 that believed that george w. bush took down the twin towers and here's part of the conspiracy. yes, they had a right to believe that, but they were ignorant and they were wrong. >> i would argue the democrats had their heads in the sand during the entire election. that's why we're here today and they should take notes and listen to these voters who support trump. coming up on morning joe. interview with the latest former member of the trump administration. outgoing veterans affairs secretary, david shulkin joins us moments ago with his reaction of being fired by the president or rather by the president's

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in our last hour, we spoke live with david shulkin who was

fired two days ago as secretary of veterans affairs. now he's speaking out on what may have triggered his dismissal and why he says it's so hard to serve in washington. it was very different than hope hicks. you were not notified by the president himself. i believe the same thing happened with mcmaster who got a phone call from someone else. how did your departure, thousand did you find out you were going to leave the white house. >> shortly before the president tweeted out that chief of staff gave me a call and gave me a heads-up. >> so kelly told you and then you found out by tweet. >> yes. >> fantastic. so as you leave the cabinet behind, big picture, what are you most concerned about? having served in there, seen the dynamics, worked with this president and obviously you're

hearing about the investigation is closing in or building up in the media, surrounding this white house. what are you most concerned about given what you have seen on the inside? >> well, mika, as you know i came from the private sedctor. i was asked by president obama to straighten out the va. i had one concern and that is to fix the system for those who served us. i am very concerned about the future of va and make sure this organization stays on track with the type of progress we've been making and that it's not hijacked and dismantled. and that's my biggest concern because our veterans need to rely upon the system that cares for them when they go off and put they're lives on the line for the country. >> why are you concerned it will be hijacked and dismantled. >> there are forces that are trying to suggest the va system is not necessary. the private sector can handle all the care for our veterans. we're caring for more than 9

million american veterans. many of them have very specialized needs. there's research being done by va that no one else is doing. this is a system that is absolutely essential not only for veterans, but for the national security of our country. >> why were you fired. >>. >> as you probably know, i believe the va needs to be ail political. we need to do things with bipartisan support. i'm very proud of leadership in congress. 11 bills passed last year to improve the va. many believe i should have been driving this much more towards a private sector or privatization approach. >> >> was trump behind that. >> i think the president as he said is genuine. he wants to do better for veterans. i don't think that he's aware of

all the particular political forces in va. nor do i expect he would know that detail. i don't think there was direct knowledge of the president of all these issues, but clearly these were political oi point tees coming out of the administration. do you think the president has the ability to grasp the issue? >> i think the job of the president is a big job with a lot to do. understanding the complexity of what happens in va is a very tough thing to do. so that i just don't know that he's had the time to invest in understanding the details nor should he. he should have the secretary whose job that is. he wanted to make this change. that's his prerogative, but this is a very complex organization. second largest government organization. >> do you think the president is fit to lead?

>> i think that the president has a very tough job and it's important that he surround himself with people that have the ability to lead. that can do this. obviously i've described it. i think that away is very chaotic. very, very tough environment. it should not be this hard to come in and serve. that makes me very concerned about what is going to happen in the future. coming up on morning joe, the rosanne reboot. 18 million people watched the new premier and president trump sure liked it. just how important of a pop culture moment is this? columnist calls it a walkup call for hollywood. learning how to speak in rosanne could save the republic. they both join us next on "morning joe."

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how could you have voted for him, rosanne. >> he talked about jobs, jackie. we almost lost our house. >> have you looked at the news. now things are worse. >> not on the real news. >> oh, please. >> our country had very little pride. look back. see what's happening. even look at rosanne. i called her yesterday. look at her ratings. look at her ratings. i got a call from mark. he did the apprentice. he said donald i called to say hello and to tell you did you see rosanne's ratings. i said mark, how big were there. they were unbelievable.

over 18 million people. and it was about us. they haven't figured it out. the fake news hasn't figured it out yet. they have not figured it out. they haven't figured it out. they will. when they do, they'll become much less fake. >> joining us now. editor of commentary magazine. columnist at the new york post. john writes in the post that the rosanne revival is a wakeup call for hollywood. the premier episode of revival of rosanne featured working

class grandmother saying grace before dinner and concluded saying thanks for making america great again. and the show got the highest ratings of any network program in six years. one might also point out the first episode aired on tuesday was absolutely sensational, but of course the people who watched in droves couldn't after known the episode was going to be good. what america might have known about the new rosanne before tuning it was it was going to be the very rarest of birds at this cultural moment. a hollywood product that wasn't going to use trump as a punch line or use trump supporters as a economic punching bag. that is for sure. joe. where the show did well. the three top citieies were tul,

since cincinnati and pittsburg. what we're seeing here is a program that went right at the trump voter and got the trump voter. there's been a lot of talk this show was a way of us reaching out to each other. talking and coming to concord the way rosanne and her sister jackie do on that episode. i'm not sure that's the real story. the real story is if you serve an underserved cultural population something it might like, there are riches to be reaped and told always hollywood responds to the bottom line and to the almighty dollar and we'll see whether this lesson is learned and whether the networks and movie studios try to play into the trump voter instead of trying to alienate the trump voter. >> fascinating. >> it may be one off.

when he did the easter movie. did really well. movie studios didn't want to pick it up and made so much more money than anyone could have expected in the passion of the christ. then we look at those cities and it reminds me of what johnny carson the advice johnny carson gave to other late night talk show hosts said you don't win on the coast. you win in the central time zone. certainly in this case that happened. white working class vote in the 2016 exit polls. what that tells me in part is

people are still working off of bad data about what the constitution of the united states electoral and american people. >> this is donny very quickly. isn't this by the way the number one show is ncis. big part of this news is the demo that watches appointment television, when it's actually on the air, when ratings count, are the more red state, lower income, lower education and yes when you put that on broadcast television, l 3 television. those numbers are always going to be higher. i don't see there's that much news here. a good show and good revival that hits the audience that still watches broadcast television. can't extrapolate broadcast television. >> good point. >> clear in the run up to

rosanne and the fight she had on jimmy kimmel how he had gone to liberal and she had stayed where she was. there was a real signal this show was going to play directly into the themes of the 2016 election. and rather than turning off people, it seemed to have excite a lot of people. >> and it has my former chief of staff and i always said back in 1994, 1995, said, could you imagine what would happen if a center right news network actually went on the air. they would own 50% of the population. has to do with market share. right now, there aren't a lot of people in rosanne's space, the show's space. certainly, you think that has a lot to do with the 18 million

people that watched? >> i don't think -- i think we're getting a little excited. i agree with donny here. if you look at the cities we just put up on the screen. one of the cities that showed it very well is the blue place of chicago. let's not get out of hand. rosanne is a revival. she has her audience. people are excited about that. doesn't mean demographically we're seeing perfectly narrow cast of republican message. rosanne is who rosanne is. we're in an age of micro casting. she did well with her demographic. includes blue states. includes places like chicago. doesn't mean suddenly we're sitting here talking about political genius. i also love how the president wants to take credit for bringing the audience to them. he's out there crowing about this. >> it's amazing. >> feels like stuart smiley on "saturday night live." stand up there and be like i'm good enough. people like me. this is all about me. that whole thing sitting in ohio

talking about jobs and instead bragging about rosanne's ratings was bizarre. >> also, obviously when whooer we're talking about the tweets she's tweeted out. whether about seth witch or info war conspiracy theories, no doubt she has gone to the extreme of a political spectrum. >> i'm not a fan of rosanne the person. i did enjoy one episode i watched. eanne the person. i did enjoy one episode i watched. working class white people make claims to be against identity politics. they crave identity politics. they want to be part of it. they want to be seen and witnessed the way people of color and women are demanding representation and attention. after the show, insurance medicine, doesn't work.

football stitch. there was an effort to kind of pay respect and pay attention to the details of a certain demographic's life. i hope those folks will understand that other people want to be represented and that's what the demands and conflicts are about. the question are the revival rates is it only kind of demagogues like donald trump and peddlers of conspiracy theories like roseanne who can speak to these people? can there be goodell vacated thoughtful future oriented political leaders who can speak to these people, make them feel witnessed, seen and understood that actually elevate them and lead them to a better place instead of make them hate people and try to shutdown the post war. >> i got to say i'm with my friends. i just -- if you think about what lesson does this have for hollywood or television industry, the network audience

for not just appointment trump administration, but it's a shrinking audience. if you're hollywood and thinking about how do i reach america, you don't think about network prime time television. you think about streaming services and online and the way that giant huge rising demographic of young people. politically diverse and all turning off network television. you can find 19 million people who want to watch roseanne because she's super famous. and they make really good television. you're going to find 19 million people. that's great. all for it. i thought the episode was good and actually had my father's couch in the middle of the roseanne couch. probably the reason i love it. just don't think it holds some great lesson for hollywood to cater to shrinking part of the market and demographic that watches television that way.

let's just shift away from popular culture and shift towards political culture. you are a man who knows a fair amount about data. we discussed on this show. i have not had a satisfactory answer yet. washington is in chaos. white house is in chaos. republicans in a panic. everything seems to be going wrong. paul ryan hasn't figured if he's going to run for election yet. in the midst of all this, donald trump's approval ratings are going up? how is that. >> he has a very solid base that is unmovable. the only thing he's had one play football team. >> he's going up. >> let's give him credit this moment. he has had upward movement in a lot of polling. i was confused. given the chaos. given sdonltormy daniels: given mueller. what explains the fact he has an

upward tick. >> the economy. it's all about the economy. studying them in the battleground states over the course of the last few years. weekly conversation with them. move on donald trump with how they view the economy. so the ups and downs of the stock market doesn't matter to them. they're doing okay so he's doing okay. as long as he's not messing them up too badly with tweets and other stuff, they're okay with him. they're going to sit there until they think he's not focusing on the economy. >> i heard that reflected in jackson, mississippi along voters who voted for obama. then they voted for bernie sanders. then they ended up voting for donald trump. while they weren't super enthusiastic about him, they felt the economy was doing well and could tell a difference in their paychecks because of the tax cut. >> i mean, that's what i hear time and time again when i'm outside of washington or new york. i hear time and time again, no, i don't like him. his tweets drive me crazy, but you know what, the regulatory

relief that the businesses have gotten, i know people who now have a job because some of the regulations have been lifted. the tax cuts have helped other people. i've gotten more money in my paycheck. i hear that time and time again. people may not like donald trump, but they feel like his policies are making them better off economically. >> john, let's end where we began and that is with you talking about how extraordinary this was. and actually i've got to say, 18 million people watching network television. >> we have this future of streaming services and a more diverse america. that may be true. real hit on a streaming service gets 3 million people to watch.

this is almost 20 million by the time the week is out with delayed ratings and all of that. the whole point here is that th the now in favor of a glorious demographically liberal future is all well and good, and look where it got hillary clinton in 2016. >> exactly. >> with this idea if she spoke to the new people, she could avoid and ignore the older people and the current people and, you know, abc itself claims that it undertook a study of american culture after the november 2016 election to see where it was underserving and that this show is a direct outgrowth of that effort. so you can say that it doesn't mean anything. abc thinks it means something. and it's going to program into this world that it decided to examine. >> well, you know, mika, the

problem is of course there was the new coalition that hillary clinton went after, ignored the old coalition. now though we have -- the problem is now it's turned 180 degrees. you have donald trump that's looking at the old coalition and offending the new coalition. neither approach is a winning strategy in 2020. >> no, but the democrats definitely -- they forgot about those 18 million people who watched "roseanne" for sure. up neck, it's a role al sharpton would be happy to give up. all too often he's called to the side of families of those killed in shootings including incidents involving the police. reverend sharpton is here with his thoughts on how to stop the trend and what he hopes the white house will do about it. your letting go thing. your sorry not sorry thing.

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let's meet at a sleep number store. my bladder leakage was making me feel like i couldn't spend time with my grandson. now depend fit-flex has their fastest absorbing material inside, so it keeps me dry and protected. go to depend.com - get a coupon and try them for yourself. hundreds gathered at a sacramento church yesterday to remember 22-year-old stephon clark. clark was fatally wounded after officers fired 20 shots at the father of two in the backyard of his grandparent's home. police, who were responding to a 911 call reporting that a man was smashing car windows, said at the time they believed the cell phone that was in clark's hand was a gun. the extremely emotional service capped a week of high tensions as clark's family and civil

rights leaders have called for justice in clark's death. reverend al sharpton delivered a eulogy yesterday at the funeral service. >> yesterday the president's press secretary said this is a local matter. no, this is not a local matter. they've been killing young black men all over the country. and we are here to say that we're going to stand with stephon clark and the leaders of his family. we are putting aside our differences. it's type for preachers to come off the pulpit. it's time for politicians to come out of the office. it's time for us to go down and stop this madness. >> and reverend sharpton joins us now. reverend, thanks for being with us. how do we stop this madness? >> well, i think, joe, we had

began with the whole police commission that president obama had started. talking about cameras on police and real reform. having police chiefs and executives at the table with those that deal with reform. and when this new administration came in, many of us, probably five or six of us in the national rights -- met with jeff sessions. he said, i'm going to wipe all that away. what's worse is when trump said very publicly on long island as president to police, why are you being nice when you're arresting people, you know, all this niceness about putting their head down when you're putting them in the car. i think he used a derogatory term. >> right. >> i think this sets a tone. what people are missing about sacramento, the police who shot this young black man were black themselves.

this is about right and wrong. a number of incidents. a black and white cop that shoots 20 times at an unarmed man. when you have a helicopter above head that could have told them he went in this building. why are you shooting him? >> so al, we have seen that. we've seen hispanic officers panic outside of cars. seemingly because they were ill equipped, became fearful and started doing absolutely everything wrong. with tragic consequences. you and i have talked about a lot of need for cameras on every police officer. is there a training component to this as well? i mean, that we just have to work harder across the nation and make this a nationwide effort? >> i think there's definitely a training component. i also think there must be an enforcement component. people need to understand that

law enforcement, they will be punished if they break the law. they'll be punished if they step outside of procedure. i think one of the most egregious things i heard when the family called me is that they had on tape the policemen actually said mute your sound immediately after they shot him. so what is the point of having body cameras if the police can mute the sound whenever they want? that smells like you're trying to cover up. if you had the presence of mind to say "mute your sound," wouldn't you have had the presence of mind to think before you shot 20 times? >> i've always said since we've been talking about this, if you have a police camera and the police camera goes off right before the incident in question starts, i mean, your presumption of innocence goes away. >> absolutely. >> and in a case like this, where it looks premeditated, that they turned it off

purposely, i'm sorry, it seems that the prosecutor has to be able to look at that skeptically. >> i think it makes clear we don't just have a technology problem in america, this is a 400 year old problem that you're talking about. i want to ask you about this issue, as you watch parkland and the question of who gets to form a movement that galvanizes a nation. because there are many parklands worth of unnecessary and tragic murders in the african-american community that don't get this kind of movement. what has to change for everybody to be part of this movement? >> i think we've got to see that we're in a collective here. that we've got to deal with each other's issues to deal with our own. you know, wednesday coming is the 50th anniversary of martin luther king's assassination. martin luther king was trying to show all people that you have an interest in this and you can't solve your interest without dealing with everyone else's

interest. i think that's one of the reasons i encouraged a lot of us. and i went to the march with thosing you teenagers last week. are because i think that you cannot just say solve gun control in chicago, don't worry about whites, whites cannot be concerned about chicago. we've got to solve it all. and we also got to deal with policemen that are out of line. and we've got to deal with racial inequality. and i think gender equality. i think we've got to be able to see that we're not each other's problem. we can be each other's solution if we come together. >> those are great words for this good friday. i hope you and your family have a blessed good friday, easter and passover and holy week. reverend al sharpton, thank you. we want to thank all of you for watching. mika, early in the show, we mentioned some comments by david schwartz. >> yes, the attorney for president trump's attorney. the fixer for the fixer as we joked sort of. on wednesday, he insisted that

donald trump was not aware of the nondisclosure contract signed by stormy daniels and wasn't told about that. he emphasized that. he was asked repeatedly about it. that could open up a whole new chapter in the importaporn starl case. schwartz just sent us a statement, saying my statement that michael cohen did not tell donald trump about the nda or the payment is not new news. michael cohen made that statement from the very beginning. it's nothing new. schwartz will have much more to say on monday, when he joins us here on "morning joe." that should be interesting. >> that does it for us this morning. i'm remembering my father. >> yes, his birthday. >> today was his birthday. and remembering him as always. dad, i love you. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> hello, i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. this morning, russia strikes back.