. that's wrap of this hour. i'm alex witt. i'll see you at noon eastern. right now it's time for "am joy" with my friend joy reid. if president trump today called you and said you have been a thorn in my side, this is annoying to me. i have bigger business i would like to move on to. how much do you want, i'll write you a check? >> a number that will continue him to hide the truth? >> yeah. for you to go away. >> no number. >> no amount of money. >> no amount of money. we're getting to the bottom of

this. i'm committed to it. my client is committed to it. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy." donald trump loves to attack peop people. but there are two people who so far trump will not attack. not ever. stormy daniels and vladimir putin. we'll get to putd enputd putin the show. stormy daniels says she was paid $130,000 in hush money to keep quiet about an alleged affair about donald trump, and she says she's not going anywhere any time soon. daniels shared parts of her story last sunday on "60 minutes," including details about spanking the reality tv star turned president with a rolled up magazine with picture the of trump and two of his adult children on the cover. and of not actually being physically attracted to trump, despite giving in to the 60-year-old's sexual advances.

we don't know whether donald trump was among the 22 million viewers who tuned in to hear stormy daniels' tale. he was at his mar-a-lago resort again, and there were nowakky nickname force stormy. not even a tweet. in fact for more than two months trump avoided any mention of stormy daniels, which is a lot for a man who is incapable of keeping his unfiltered id under wraps. why the silence? what is it that stormy daniels has over donald trump? could she and her very clever attorney soon force trump to break that silence? joining me now is katie phang, joe conason, and lisa bloom. thank you all for being here. i want to start with you, katie. just this morning, michael avenatti tweeted and reinforced what he said on cnn and in multiple interviews there no number, be clear, we will never

accept any settlement regardless of the amount of money that does not includes mr. core win ahen trump coming 100% clean with the american people. people who say this is about money have not been paying attention. this is a case that we already know that stormy daniels, stephanie clifford, took a relatively low amount of money, a weird odd amount of money, $130,000 when she could have sold that story for a lot more right before the election. what does it say to you that her attorney is now saying there is no amount of money that she would take that would substitute for having donald trump admit that they had this tryst. >> i think avenatti and his client are doubling down. they're basically saying we're searching for truth, integrity and the truth will set everyone free at this point. so if he is saying that they will not accept a single dollar or a single amount of money that will make her once again shut up

and be held silent, that bolsters her credibkre credibil. everybody talks about she's just a porn star, yet this porn star has kept the president silent and has basically ruined in terms of the legal proficiency or competency tons of lawyers, because we're now hyper scrutinizing how these filings have been done, what's been said. michael cohen's lawyer the other day, david sha wachwartz goes o saying trump was never part of this deal. but this tweet by michael avenatti reinforces if the truth comes out -- isn't that the reality? if trump at the beginning had said, yeah, i had sex with the porn star 12 years ago people would have shrugged like they do now. now that avenatti is saying we won't keep a penny to keep my client silent, it helps the integrity of the lawsuit. >> i will come to that, not just admitting it in a minute with

joe. first to lee isisa bloom. this is a tweet by former federal prosecutor, renat renato mariotti. michael cohen's attorney just claimed that trump was not aware of stormy daniels agreement or the payment, which means that there was no contract between trump and daniels, and daniels can release the material. i would would he admit this on national television? there was a tweet storm that flowed off of the mariotti tweet that i got interested in. they talked about the product bandied about in the agreement between trump and this llc. the question that this attorney is raising about whether or not the low number that stormy daniels took is potentially because she was concerned or made to feel concerned that if she released photos, text

messages, information that proved she had this relationship with donald trump, that she could then be prosecuted under revenge porn laws, they may have threatened her with something like that. does that sound like it makes sense to you? >> certainly if you release explicit photos of somebody without their permission, that's revenge porn and that's criminal in california and many other places. i have a different theory. my theory is that stuff is a bluff. she doesn't really have anything. i'll tell you why i think that. in 2011 she was shopping the story and frankly nobody seemed particularly interested except "in touch magazine" which did do the interview and ultimately killed it. it's since been released. i think she would have sold that stuff. at that time that would have tended to corroborate the story. there 2016 again she's trying to sell the story, every outlet would have asked what do you have? what kind of corroboration do you have? that would have been part of the

sale? about she had materials they would have been turned over as part of the agreement with trump and cohen. i think the photo of that disc is like the bluff president trump did with james comey. i think it's working brilliantly. it's a brilliant move. trump will get sued for defamation if he makes any denial, and avenatti already sued cohen for his denial. >> interesting. interesting. alternate theories being put forward by lisa bloom. katie mentioned why not just admit it. just cop to it instead of lying to it. we heard that with william jefferson clinton who wound up being impeached. it started out over white water, land deals, and wound up talking about an affair, in between those was a woman named paula

jones who accused bill clinton of sexual harassment. we have the current attorney for stormy daniels saying they would like to depose donald trump. a judge has denied so far the request, but that might be temporary. it's been re-filed, this motion that michael avenatti re-filed the motion to depose president trump. the precedent they're citing is the paula jones precedent. hike is michael avenatti talking about that paula jones preced t precedent. >> you mentioned clinton versus paula jones in your motion. why is that relevant? >> it's the supreme court precedent. the supreme court decided that a sitting president could be deposed in a civil matter. if that was the law then, it is the law now. >> joe conason, author of "the hunting of the president," are we right back where we were before of people saying why doesn't trump just admit it rather than submit himself to a

deposition that would be made public? >> joy there are a lot of parallels. not everything is parallel, but there's a frightening parallel, i think, for trump where the stormy daniels case and this -- these lawsuits, multiple lawsuits that are emerging now could somehow converge with the mueller investigation, which is what happened to clinton. the paula jones case, which was a civil case, as you note the supreme court decided 9-0 that that case could go forward while he was president. eventually found its way into the hands of ken starr, then the independent counsel. our book goes into the details of how that happened. you could say there was collusion between the jones lawyers and starr's office. that matters less than the fact that there are a lot of circumstances here that could lead to president trump being deposed. i don't think they would have a legal leg to try to say that the case cannot go forward because

he's president. and he's about to sue her. he's acknowledging, yes, a civil case against the president can go forward. once he's under oath either with the civil case or with mueller, every lawyer agrees that's a big problem for him. >> absolutely. you brought up ken starr. let's read what ken starr had to say to yahoo! news on friday. he famously investigated bill clinton's relationship with monica lewinsky. he believes stormy daniels allegations that she was paid $130,000 to keep silent about an affair with president trump raises serious and difficult issues that need to be evaluated by the justice department to determine if another special counsel needs to be appointed. katie, your thoughts? >> sometimes the cover-up is worse than the crime.

were there campaign violations here, were there issues in terms of the threat of physical harm. and now what's happening and what's foolish is michael cohen, the fixer for donald trump, has hired a train wreck of a lawyer named david sha wachwartschwart they're all doing this -- even though donald trump himself does not take the podium and say i did not have a relationship with this woman, dot dot dot, all of these statements being made by cohen, schwartz and the whole bunch of bad lawyers is being imputed to donald trump. it's an unavoidable reality that mueller will be looking at stormy daniels. it's unavoidable that mueller will say, you know what? it's worth it for me to take time to see whether or not there was undue influence that occurred by the payment of this $130,000. so why the lawyers and why the emissaries of lies for donald trump don't just shut uf and p muzzle themselves is beyond me

because they're making things worse. >> lisa bloom, there's also this question of whether or not mr. davidson ill-served his client by pushing her to sign this deal. >> yeah. i am concerned about that. he released a statement saying essentially that he didn't believe stormy daniels' story now, that she doesn't have credibility, which seems to me to be an ethical violation on his part. we attorneys have a duty of loyalty and confidentiality even to ex-clients. that is our ethical obligation. on trump's side, his lawyer's lawyer now needs a lawyer. this is getting ridiculous. people tend to choose lawyers who are like them. stormy is very intelligent woman, she has chosen wisely. on trump's side, the bumbling speaks for itself. >> joe, it is an irony that back

during the clinton impeachment days, donald trump was on his side. now he may be the hoist on clinton pa tsh ashgpetard. >> it's a big issue for trump that the sex case like paula jones is almost on a path to converging with other criminal liabilities that he or people close to him may have. it was a disaster for clinton and led to impeachment, this is not good for donald trump. >> to say the least. katie, leaisa, thank you very much. stan yells is not the only person that donald trump is silent about. in h his relationship with that other person is only getting weider. stay with us. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet.

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. we're also planning on walking out during the april 20th walkout. we're loud and proud wearing our shirts. >> we'll see you in detention. we'll see you at some more rallies and then in the voting booths. >> you want to us serve detention with you guys? >> yes. >> >> i had a call with president putin and con lakocongratulated his victory. the call also had to do with the fact that we will probably get together in the not too distant future. >> so we know donald trump will criticize just about anyone, except vladimir putin and stormy daniels. now nbc news is reporting that even as trump's administration takes a harder line against russia, like supplying new weapons to ukraine, trump himself is ordering his aides not to talk about it.

doing so trump argued might agitate vladimir putin. he doesn't want us to bring it up one white house official said. it's not something that he wants to talk about. joining me now is malcolm nance, sarah kendzior and naveed jamali. malcolm, it is weird. we do remember that during the convention when you and i were sitting across from one another as we have done for 18 to 19 months, that the one thing that the trump campaign wanted changed in the republican platform was to take away a plank in the platform that talked about arming ukraine, which we know crimea was seized in 2014 by russia. now they've gone bag on tback o that. they have called to arm ukraine. donald trump doesn't want it spoke in public. what do you make of that? >> i think it's clear that the defense establishment and like

general mattis and others in congress and the senate, they want this pressure on russia. i think they're setting up circumstances where donald trump has to go ahead and acquiesce. as we've seen, donald trump himself will not mention a negative word about vladimir putin. it's fascinating, over the last week everyone has been talking about donald trump's nondisclosure agreement, the nda with stormy daniels. i want to see the nda between donald trump and vladimir putin. it has some amazing clauses in there, even with congress putting in sanctions, kicking out spies, donald trump will not say a negative word against vladimir putin. fascinating. >> it is fascinating. you know, sarah during the -- there's a new story coming out, that says -- this is an nbc news story that talks about court filings coming out from robert mueller. that the fbi says during the 2016 campaign, that same campaign, paul manafort,

manafort and gates were involved in the election that put the pro-russia ukrainian election in place, they were in touch with a manafort associate who had an ongoing relationship with russian intelligence, the filings also allege that gates stated that he was aware the manafort associate had once been an officer with the russian military intelligence. this is identified as person "a" in court documents. so you have direct ties between the campaign chairman, his deputy and this person who they knew was with the gru. now we have them going back on the very plank that that campaign reversed during the convention. what do you make of this? >> it's obviously not a coincidence. this is why manafort was

selected to be trump's campaign xh chairman. that should have been a warning sign to everyone given trump's ties to the russian oligarchs and everyone he seems to be in debt to. person "a" is a former gru official and a valuable source of russian intelligence. the fact that manafort was in touch with him, gates was in touch with him, but especially gates was in touch with him not only in 2016 while manafort was running the campaign but afterwards, all through the fall, and god knows what gates was doing throughout 2017. so a high level of information could have been passed through these parties. we don't know who has this information now, and what these state secrets will be used for. this is a serious situation that as i said previously will

outlive the time that trump is in office. this is a national security crisis. it was one back in 2016. i wonder why nobody acted on it given that all of this was happening out in the open, was reported at the time. >> naveed, you have people connected to the campaign coming into the radar, under the radar of robert mueller just on wednesday, a guy named ted malloch, kind of a conspiracy theorist was stopped at logan airport, served a subpoena and released. he said he was asked about roger stone and wikileaks. malloch is british and a friend of the brexit guy, he has a book coming out in may "the plot to destroy trump." the forward was written by roger

stone. it's blurbed by alex jones. we do seem to be circling a wider and wider and sometimes shallower path of people, but they all have these connections back to putin. >> that's right. that book, it sounds like it's a retort to malcolm's book, the plot to hack america. >> it is. >> sounds like it. >> as we get down to this, just to take one step back to what sarah said, it's so important. now that we are hearing a specific russian intelligence agency's name, the gru, russian military intelligence, it's understand to what russian military intelligence motivation might have been in this effort. they're clearly interested in ukraine. when you see a platform change under president trump that softens aid to the ukrainians,

and now the gru may be talking to people in the trump orbit there seems to be a nexus here. if we are hearing that people are aiding the gru, we potentially have people helping russian military intelligence, which is aimed specifically at undermining not just the ukraine be military but also our military. this is something that rises to a moral level that is dangerous. even someone like roger stone, who thought he may have been doing something inok wous nocuo just talking to wikileaks, you have to understand that the russian military intelligence is harming the united states, and by hemmilping them you're helpi an enemy. i can't think of anything more egregious to do than work against this country. and now we're seeing these people were doing exactly that. >> i believe that people do things for money primarily as a

motivation when people do something wrong. when i hear ukraine, i think roz dpz rozneft and that big deal that was going to help exxonmobil and got scratched because of the sanctions of 2014, and why would they want crimea other than to move that oil and gas that they were going to develop with the help of exxonmobil and rosneft. i see that giant deal that rex tillerson was at the helm of at the center of this. am i off base here? >> no. i said it's pragmatic for russia to seek out for somebody like trump who they already have leverage over, have business ties with, and use the u.s. government as a way to change policy, change policies like sanctions for their own financial benefit. that's a benefit that goes to

pludicrats in the united states like tillerson. people are in an advantageous position if these sanctions are removed. the same for russia. there's an ideological tie that binds them, but money is the thing that binds them. >> and maybe you have russia out of frustration really flexing on donald trump, not getting much of a response. you have the missile test where russia releases a video showing the launch of a new icbm. you can see that video there. russia released it on friday. trump and putin have a call and trump says if you want to have an arms race, we can do that, but i will win. here is donald trump talking about vladimir putin and a

potential arms race on march 20th, describing that very call. >> we had a very good call. i suspect we'll be meeting in the not too distant future to discuss the arms race, which is getting out of control. but we will never allow anybody to have anything even close to what we have. >> anybody? what about putin? he won't mention his name, malcol malcolm. >> let me speak for every intelligence watch officer watching this program now. what is he talking about? there is no arms race. there is literally no arms race. these weapon systems have been in existence since the '50s. the ss 18 satan 2 ballistic missile carries 15 multiple reentry atomic war hheawarheads.

>> also word to you, naveed jamali, do you think vladimir putin has something material on donald trump that keeps him so quiet? >> every time i see donald trump speak about vladimir putin, i'm reminded of one of my kids sitting in the kitchen strolling in saying i didn't do anything wrong. donald trump is guilty of something, what that is, we don't know. but he must be guilty of something. >> he has something or stormy has something. one of the two has something it seems. up next, a sign conservatives know they're desperately losing one of the biggest culture wars ever facing our country. fire fighting is a very dangerous profession.

we have one to two fires a day and when you respond together and you put your lives on the line, you do have to surround yourself with experts. and for us the expert in gas and electric is pg&e. we run about 2,500/2,800 fire calls a year and on almost every one of those calls pg&e is responding to that call as well. and so when we show up to a fire and pg&e shows up with us it makes a tremendous team during a moment of crisis. i rely on them,

the firefighters in this department rely on them, and so we have to practice safety everyday. utilizing pg&e's talent and expertise in that area trains our firefighters on the gas or electric aspect of a fire and when we have an emergency situation we are going to be much more skilled and prepared to mitigate that emergency for all concerned. the things we do every single day that puts ourselves in harm's way, and to have a partner that is so skilled at what they do is indispensable, and i couldn't ask for a better partner. this week fox news host laura ingraham was forced to apologize after she marked parkland massacre survivor david hogg on twitter. nearly a dozen of her advertisers bailed. last night ingraham said she would be taking a break from the hosting gig for some family time. we'll talk more about that later in the show. this is hardly the first time

that right-wing media used attacks on children as a way of connecting with their audiences. >> cute kid. let's see who is the cute kid in the white house. no! no! that's not the kid. that's the kid who tried to -- >> be sure to check out my new column in the daily beast about how republicans atock young people at their peril. up next, are presidential pardons on the table?

did the president direct john dowd to talk to tpaul ma manafort and michael flynn about pardons? >> i'm not aware. >> did you ask him specifically? >> i did not talk to him specifically about it. i've been in a number of conversations, it's never come up. >> this week the white house was forced to deflect questions on a "new york times" report that john dowd, one of trump's former lawyers, waived the idea of pardoning two men at the center of robert mueller's russia probe, michael flim akchael fly manafort. just a few months ago trump said a pardon for michael flynn

wasn't completely off table from. >> about michael flynn would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. >> joining me now is paul butler, jill winebanks, and joe conason. let's start with you on this, paul. donald trump, one of his lawyers, ty cobb issued a statement on wednesday saying i've only been asked about pardons by the press and have routinely responded on the record that no pardons are under discussion or under consideration at the white house. he represents the white house in the russia probe. he's one of trump few remaining lawyers. trump has tweeted about pardons. on july 22, 2017 he tweeted while all agree the u.s. president has the complete power to pardon, why think of that when only crime so far is leaks against us. fake news. sort of trying to deflect it. if donald trump did try to get

michael flynn out of dodge, pardon him and pardon paul manafort, would that be obstruction? >> absolutely. the presidential pardon power is broad, but not absolute. it's not complete. a president can't sell his pardon power. he can't use the pardon power like a slush fund to buy silence from witnesses in an investigation. if you do that, there's a phrase for that, obstruction of justice. the fact it's legal for the president to pardon somebody has no significance on whether it's evidence of obstruction like his act of firing james comey in order to impede the investigation. though legal is also evidence of obstruction. >> let's listen to eric holder on this question of potential obstruction of justice related to the pardon power. >> the pardon power is really absolute. so that if president trump decided that he wanted to pardon

paul manafort, manafort would be free. the question would be, though that's the president's power, there's no question about that, if the use of that absolute power is for inappropriate purpose, illegal purpose, that could be a specification in an obstruction of justice indictment against a president. >> jill, can you talk about -- let's go back. we talk about the nixon present a lot and whether there was a precedent that you came across that he thought about pardoning everyone that was implicated in watergate in order to try to free himself. >> was some discussion about pardons, and there was other forms of obstruction that were as powerful, paying hush money was a very much part of the obstruction of justice. so it's definitely a possibility. and i agree both with paul and

with eric holder that if it's used for improper purposes, it is part of an obstruction to use it. so all that has to be shown is that john dowd didn't act on his own in having these discussions which it seems almost inconceivable that he could have gone to anybody to offer a pardon without the president knowing or being involved. john dowd doesn't have the power to offer pardons, only the president does. >> did nixon ever consider pardoning himself? that's another question people have asked, whether or not a president could try to pardon himself. >> as far as i know there wasn't. the only question was whether there was any agreement with ford to -- who became president, who was the vice president, and whether there was an agreement with ford that in exchange for richard nixon resigning, that ford would become president and would pardon him. there's really no evidence that they had an agreement. of course president ford suffered in the election.

he was not re-elected in large part because he had pardoned the president. >> absolutely. same question similar to you, joe conason. you're a scholar of the clinton era. was there ever a consideration in the clinton white house of using pardons to extricate himself from the sort of white water to monica lewinsky situation? >> i don't believe there is any evidence that he thought of misusing pardons that way. it's important to remember clinton was pursued for years after he left the white house by the justice department under president bush for the pardons he issued to mark rich and pincus green, which were suspected of being corrupt. there was never any proof they were. i happen not to believe that they were, but there was certainly a strong sense that he had done something wrong. jim comey, who was then the u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york, spent years investigating those

pardons on the basis that they there had supposedly donations made to the clinton foundation for the pardons of mark rich. i believe clinton did that for other reasons that had to do with mideast diplomacy. but certainly at the time he was -- the theory was and it was articulated by a senator at the time named jefferson sessions, that the president upon leaving office could be prosecuted for the corrupt misuse of pardons. i think there's a strong possibility that if trump did something like this, he, too, could be prosecuted after leaving the white house. people don't -- there's disagreement among scholars as to whether a president can be indicted while sitting. but once he leaves office, there's no question he would be legally vulnerable for any such actions. >> i'll throw that to you, paul, the list of people that have been pointed out, all these

options of people who could be pardons. what do you make of this question of whether or not trump himself could be indicted? >> i don't think trump could be indicted while in office. not only does the constitution make that an open question, justice department regulations say that a sitting president -- >> can't they change the regulations? >> they could, but would jeff sessions -- >> yeah. >> terms of those people who pled guilty, who hasn't? paul manafort. i wonder if he got this message. flynn didn't. flynn said i'm not dealing with you. i'll pleadafort didn't. if manafort gets pardoned, that's more evidence against trump. >> jill what do you make of the fact that jeff sessions refused to put in place a second special councdowcounsel counsel.

>> i think he may be adhering to the rule of law which says there is no cause for a second special prosecutor, he also walked a fine political line by allowing the inspector general to investigate, and having a u.s. attorney investigate. >> interesting. jill, what's your pin today? >> it's a wolf from a 14-year-old who has an organization called kids for wolves.org and trying to protect the wonderful animal wolfpacks. >> amazing. your pins are a story in and of themselves. jill, joe, thank you very much. have a wonderful easter/passover weekend. paul butler is sticking around. up next, the newly released video of the police shooting of alton sterling that is sure to raise more questions about why no charges were filed. if you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. help stop the journey of gum disease. try parodontax toothpaste.

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these actions were not minor deviations from policy. as they contributed to the outcome that resulted in the death of another human being. our police officers are held to a higher standard. fear cannot be a driver for an

officer's response to every incident. >> in baton rouge, louisiana, just-released body camera footage shows police officer blaineies and threatening to kill alton sterling before fatally killing him. i want to warn you this footage is disturbing. the video was kept under wraps for two years but was released on friday after officer was fired from the police department. the officer who helped wrestle sterling to the ground was suspended for three days. louisiana attorney general announced on tuesday that neither officer will face criminal charges. paul butler, legal analyst. gentlemen, thank you for being here. i want to start by playing you jeff landry, former tea party

congressman turned attorney general of louisiana. this is what he said about not prosecutor either of these officers on tuesday. >> after a thorough and exhaustive review of the evidence, the facts that can be established beyond a reasonable doubt, the law and jurisprudence of the state of louisiana and obligation of prosecutors under the code of professional conduct, the louisiana department of justice cannot proceed with a prosecution of either officer lake or officer salamon. >> i'm going to get to the question of nonprosecuting in a second. all of this time, almost two years now, we have been led to believe there was no body camera footage because their body cameras fell off. we now find there is footage from both officers that their sound you can hear the gunshots, screaming, profanity, threats.

there's 90 seconds between the start of the confrontation and former officer escalating, putting a gun to alton sterling head, tasing him twice. shooting him six times in the back. this makes no sense to me at all. this is the same police chief who has fired is not the same police chief who told us there was no body cam footage. >> there's a new mayor who ran in part on a message of police reform. there's a new chief who you saw there who has tried to take the tact that says if you're afraid for your life, maybe this is the wrong job for you. policing is a dangerous job and if you're afraid of black people generally, we don't want you here. it's difficult to say the best thing i can do is fire you as the price of taking a black life when you escalating the conflict when you were not truthful in your report. in many departments across the

country, that wouldn't be the end of the story. the officer would sue to get back on the job and in many cases they are able to get back on the job. he's already appealing it. >> this fear for my life, i thought he had a gun. this is what police say in every shooting. the idea that one chief says if you're afraid for your life, you shouldn't be a cop, what does that say about the rest of the police. they all say that. >> that's exactly right in is not an isolated incident. one of the things so frustrating for us working on policing since before it made the headlines is you have somebody in the white house who after the sacramento shooting of stephon clark says this is state's right. if they can deal with that locally as if this hasn't been a pattern for several years.

no one has stopped the killing. no one has stopped dying at the hands of law enforcement. there are good folks trying to get this turned around in the right direction. we work with those folks all the time. there's not money to organize and power to organize. you see folks on the ground that are demoralized. i talk to folks in baton rouge and they are just derespondsed. i got test messages from officers and counselors saying i don't know how to have hope tomorrow. >> every police officer i know, none of them want to serve with an officer like him. he could be in fear for his life. this is the attorney for the family on friday. >> we heard from the d.o.j. and from the attorney general's officer but from the d.o.j. that

officer salamoni language and actions were outrageous. we didn't know that they were so hateful. if you watch the surveillance video and listen to the body cam footage, it's almost pal pa at a timing with hate. >> you and i both watch it. it's incredible that somebody screaming obscenities at a person they then shoot after threatening to shoot them in the head and fill them with lead. how on earth -- how can that not result this prosecution? >> as a prosecutor who has taken hundreds of cases to trial. i would have gotten a conviction in the case. sometimes you can believe your own eyes. sometimes you have to call an act of murder, murder. that's what we saw in that video. the police officer calls mr. sterling everything but the n

word. wrestles him to the ground and shoots him several times. >> isn't there a supreme court precedent that says there was a gun, that sterling has a gun on him. he couldn't access it, doesn't the sort of weight of the law still weigh on the officer side almost exclusively in these cases? >> only if the officer reasonable bli feared for his life which is why jurors will give the benefit of the doubt with prosecutors. with this video, we see a different story. if a black man had done this to a officer, they would be calling for the death penalty. what this prosecutor did was t gutless. >> he may lose his license but don't we understand this guy could move to another town baan be a cop again. >> there's no license to lose. he just lost his job. the next department can say you can come on.

>> the tamir rice kwacase was t same. he never should have been hired. he then gets fired for lying on his application and is still eligible to be a cop somewhere else. >> once he's been shot and killed he curses the dead body on the ground for another 30 seconds. someone comes along and says you're done. get out of here. >> there was a funding issue that you wanted to bring up. >> we kept criminal justice moving for the last several months despite the fact there's been a change in transition at the white house. most of that criminal justice

funding and movement is about 200 million dollar. it's about 10 to $15 million on police reform. that means we have to go to the federal government for money and the federal government is not hearing any of that. as we bhoouf this forward, policing is getting left behind. >> last word on this. there's clearly a civil case here. >> there's a civil case but there's a case about prosecutors. prosecutors are important. the police chief is important. prosecutor with integrity would have brought this case and gotten a conviction. >> the guy's name is jeff landry. if you're a voter in louisiana, he's an elected official. some of them are democrats too. some of these cases. the tamir rice case. these people have fouer to decide whether a police officer can remain on the force somewhere else and put other people's lives in danger. out rageous honestly. thank you very much. we'll have more on this story

and also the shooting death of stephon clark. coming up, how the parkland kids have managed in less than one week to do what it took others -- what others have not been able to do in decades. when it comes to certain hosts on a certain network. dear foremothers, your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... commanded armies... yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com

daifrds david, first of all, our thoughts and prayers sound after a while like very trite and cliche. as i was in my kitchen watching this today and i have three kids, i want to break down and cry. there's so much bravery on the part of students and teachers, including according to reports one who died. that does give us some hope in humanity. tell us what happened and what you heard unfold as you were in school today? >> so the first thing that i heard was one single gunshot. we thought it was a drill but it turned out to be anything but. >> good morning. welcome back. fox news host laura ingraham significantly changed her tune since she interviewed david last month. she's now going on vacation to

avoid the brewing scandal of her petty attack. she fired off a tweet mocking the 17-year-old college admission status. t he wrote, so, what are your biggest advertisers. asking for a friend. hashtag boycott ingraham add verts. they weren't about to wait for any boycotts to begin. 16 companies have pulled their ads from ingraham's show. the list continues to grow. after the ad evacindicatiuation ingraham tweeted an apology. hog has not accepted her apology saying it was too little, too late.

i'm going to start with you on this first. your friend was attacked by laura ingraham. she then apologized and pegged it to holy week. i'm going to play his response on cnn in an interview where he asks whether he accepts that apology. >> do you accept her apology? >> no. she's only apology after a third of her advertisers pulled out. i think it's really disgusting the fact she tried promoting her show after apologizing to me. i think it's wrong and if she really wants to do something she could cover things like inner city violence and the real issues we have in iraq. she has a responsibility to show both sides of the story. >> he tweeted around bhmidnight this morning have some healthy retlflections this holy week. there's some on the right criticizing your movement. the never again movement for using boycotts as a tactic in

this wrestling match over gun reform. do you think it's unfair for david to have gone in that direction with laura ingraham? >> david has a right to do what anybody else does. laura ingraham attacked high school shooting survivor. that's wrong. all the movement, everybody who supports us are try to do is create a morally just society. that's what we were taught. that's what we were preached at while younger and all we're trying to do is practice what we preach. >> david mentioned the idea of covering multiple sides of this story in terms of gun violence. you've tried to broaden the conversation that the right wants to have about arming teachers and people who are unnerved about the power that the nra has about wanting to ban assault style weapons. you tweeted this on thursday.

black and minority youth are disproportionate targeted. broaden that out a little bit. we're in this moment we're where talking about police violence. it's very real for the black lives matter movement. do you feel like what we are in the media are doing a good enough job of addressing that particular concern? >> i feel like now we're starting to get towards that conversation. initially it began with school shootings and broaden out to gun violence across network. that puts the black youth on campus in danger, in a sense. i don't believe that every officer would target minority youth but if you look at the statistics and headlines every day, whether it's

subconsciously, officers racially profile the people that come towards them and black youth are at a danger for that. >> i want to play a town hall that was held in parkland. i believe wtvj was there and here are some of the black msd students holding the press conference. >> black lives matter movement have been addressing this topic since 2012. we have never seen this kind of support for our cause and do not feel the lives and voice of minorities are values as much as our white counterparts. >> one in three officers suffer from untreated post-traumatic stress disorder. when mentally ill officers are invited to save student body, it becomes a recipe for disaster. >> i presume in that part of the movement or do you have agreement across the msd students about this issue of

arming teachers even for different reasons? >> i definitely feel like we're all on the same page. it's a lot of anxiety and stress that should not be on campus. it's unwarranted. a lot of kids are on the line that teachers should have weapons after what happened. >> we know you have come out against it as well, ryan. i want to go to chris. you have added to your movement. from the very beginning you made voting a very important component. this new part of your movement called the parents promise to kids. it's a voting pledge that you guys are expanding to your parents and grandparents. >> a lot of us aren't at age to vote yet. they want to be involved.

basically, what it is their parents promming their children they will do their civic duty by going out and vote. the kids are holding the parents responsibility. >> how old are you chris? >> i'm 19. >> your voting age. kyra how old are you? >> 17. >> are you going to make 18 by november? >> no. i'm in january. >> how about you ryan? >> i'm 18. i turned 18 in november. i got this one down. >> you guys have these different components of what you're doing. you have the gun rights side, the voting rights side, the question of arming teachers. what are you doing next as a collective? what should we look for as the touch point in your movement? >> there's the town halls being

organized during the congressional recess over the next couple of weeks. there's national school walk out coming on 4/20. the anniversary of columbine. there's so many things going on until the mid term elections this year that we want to make sure we educate the high school level, the collegiate level. we want to make sure that kids have the voice they deserve because america is a country that we preach democracy. we talk about the fact that every voice matters, every vote counts but then for years we have been given this narrative that takes that away. we try to make sure this is not a subject of race. it's not a subject of creed. this is not a subject of any of that. it's a subject that people are dying. we just need to make sure we put a stop to that. not only safe in a school or

movie theater or chunrch but al over. people should not be living in this fear. this fear is everywhere and it's preached over the media. it's preached oaf our politicians like to fear monger. we want to make sure people unify and use their voice and people feel the power they were always given. >> chris, have you heard from your local congressperson to show up to the town hall that will be in the parkland area? >> i haven't heard anything as far as whether or not he will be there. i have a pretty good feeling he will be. we've been working very closely with congressman and he's been one of our biggest supporters. we're very grateful to him. we think we'll see him there. >> kyra, what's the take away message that you want people to have this morning regarding the purpose of the never again movement? >> i hope that people are able

to see that this isn't more of a political issue. it's a moral issue. we want to protect the lives of children. not only children but every one in the country that deals with gun violence on daily. they all deserve a voice and we're uniting the country. >> the nra has the likes of ted nugent. the side for gun reformty has your guys. we really appreciate your time. have a happy easter and passover. up next, the nra ties to republicans may not be their most troubling relationship. i'm all about my bed. this mattress is dangerously comfortable. when i get in, i literally say, ahh. introducing

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the russian national government to grant a brorder rights to bear arms to its people, it could create a partnership with its citizen to better allow for the protection of mothers, children and families without compromising the integrity of the russian state. that's my wish and my advice to your great people as you celebrate your constitutional anniversary and exercise one of your many new freedoms by

engaging in this debay todte to. >> donald trump's third national security advisor recorded that for the russian equivalent of the flrnra back in 2013. the fbi is investigating whether he funneled money to the nra to help elect donald trump president. the federal election kplicommis is investigating whether the nra used foreign donations. the nra says it does receive foreign money and claims none of it is used in american elections. joining me is amy klobuchar. >> thank you. >> i'll read the statement. they said, kwoequote, we do rec some contributions from foreign individuals and entities, those are made to the nra for lawful

purposes. our review of our records has found no foreign donation in connection with the united states. is the own investigation enough or should congress weigh in? >> here you have these ties that are out there and you have nra members and gun owners, in my state, who would be shocked to know there was any relationship with russia when they're trying to stand up for their own freedom. this whole thing is pretty outrageous. i know that ron is on finance committee and they'll look at it. you'll have the fec investigation. it's illegal to have foreign money going into campaigns. in their statement they said they didn't do it. clearly the fec wants to look at this. >> taking them at their word doesn't seem like a good idea. their power is in the money that they spend on these campaigns through their pact. it's not nra dektly giving money

to kpa -- directly giving to pacts. they spent $54.4 million on the 2016 election. that was $31.2 million spent on trump and 19.8 spent against hillary clinton. we have chart that shows your ted cruz of texas who takes great credit for the heller decision to made the right to bear arms gets the most. paul ryan is number three. how influenced are they by people in the nra? >> outrageo outrageous. it's influencing people's decisions. even to come in the middle for something like universal background checks that 90% of

americans support, so many nra members support and gun owners support. yet they won't go there. the most extreme element is controlling what they do and the payoffs with the money. the answer is to change money in politics but also what you just had on your show. it's the students. it's a new group of people getting involved. i don't care these guys are giving you money because you take this extreme position. this is not what america stands for. it hasn't worked in the past. maybe the moms didn't work when telling hunters in my state what their position is. i think these kids will be different. they are kids and grand kids and asking simple questions like can't you keep us safe at school. >> you talk about gun owners in your state. you represent minnesota. what do the gun owners you talk to tell you about this? i have not met somebody who is an avid hunter who hunts with an

ar-15? this is a different group of people. it's a small group of people. >> you think of things like bump stocks that were used. you don't use those in hunting. >> most hunters love the sport. it's a big part of the culture and the life in minnesota like fishing is. we're approaching the fishing opener soon. that's fine. that's good. we want to have hunting. we want to have gun for sports, for collection. there are guns out there and there are -- that's why we're looking at the age limit that was just put in place in florida. there's common sense things that we can do that they are resisting. you look at the people that are getting all that money from the nra. they are standing in the way where most americans are. that's what's going to be the argument we're going to be

making in congress. we got the fix nix done to add more data to the background checks. that's good. we got school safety bill done. now we have to move on and try to get the universal background check next. we need to do some limitations on the assault weapons. if we can't get that done, that's going to be the issue for so many of these young people. they are already rentgistering droves. they get they are at the march rev. register, educate, vote. r.e.v. >> are you seeing that voter j registration up tick in minnesota. >> we had the highest voter turn out in the last election. you can register the day of the election. we have same day. you don't have that motivation. i have a bill that would register automatically every person in this country when they turn 18 as long as they meet the

requirements to register. >> we have seen a bankruptcy of remmington file. you are seeing gun sales declining. you're seening the money that's going into the nra as a pact going up. what does that say to you? >> seems there's a different motivation going on. it's just when you know that's trying to re-elect certain people that are stand ng the way. that's why calling them out on it like only these kids can do. whether it's what happened with laura ingraham or what happened in congress with some of these town hall meetings and people showing up. that's calling people out instead of just allowing the status quo that's meant no change, nothing for too long. >> we have to go. let's put up the online ad spending that went way up after

the massacre at parkland. if, in theory you were running for president, would you, as a democrat, feel comfortable running on gun reform? >> well, of course i would. i think there's many things we have to run on. economics, you name it. it used to just be something that people never talked about. this is something now where young people, there's a whole collection issue. student loans, climate change. making it easier to vote from getting rid of some of this horrible jergerrymandering to d something about registering and allowing kids to register when they turn 18. those are all things that students care about. one of them is guns. they are the ones going to school where will these massacres have occurred. i don't think you can be afraid of that issue. i think you have to view it as part of freedom. economic freedom for opportunity. economic freedom to be able to have health care and then freedom to be able to live your

lives as you would. that means not being afraid of a bump stock at a concert and not being afraid of an assault weapon coming into your school. >> sounds like you have thought through the platform for presidential. just saying. >> i'm focused on minnesota and the senate and the work we're doing there but thank you. up next, the huge implications of the changes in the census. if you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems, and could be on the journey to much worse. try parodontax toothpaste. it's clinically proven to remove plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums. for healthy gums and strong teeth. leave bleeding gums behind with parodontax toothpaste.

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in wisconsin democracy has been delayed but not denied. scott walker has called a special election after losing two seats. walker asked an appeals court to push back the deadlines until the gop led legislature could re-write the law so the elections would not have to be held. wisconsinites go to the polls june 12th. while democrats won't be able to flip control on that vote, they do get a chance to put scott walker and the gop on notice. up next, how changes to the census could impact elections for years to come.

this has been practice of the united states government. the purpose is to determine individuals that are here. it's also helps to comply with the voting rights act. without that information it's hard to make those determinations and that information needs to be gathered and it has been part of the united states census every time we've had a census since 1965 with the one exception of the 2010 census. >> there will be a question about citizenship to the 2020 census. that question that would be the first of its kind since 1950 raises concerns that it could result in undercounts in some immigrant communities. many immigrants, particularly those who are undocumented might avoid participating in a census that acts about citizenship. so might mixed status families. it's used to distribute billions of dollars in federal resources to states. california has already sued over

this question and at least a dozen other states including new york are poised to follow suit. joining bhe ining me is seniort mother jones. when sarah huckabee sanders came out and said we're just going back to the way that we did it in 1965. she named the year that it couldn't be true. we know the administration out right lied about the reason they were doing it. they claimed that the reason they want to add the citizenship question is because of the voting rights act. can you please make whether that makes sense. sdp >> no. it's a total farce. it's laughable that the trump administration of all people suddenly has an interest in enforcing the voting rights act when they haven't filed a single lawsuit to enforce the voting

rights act. when they formed the commission with the intent of suppressing votes. they have rolled back every single civil rights law. suddenly they are interested in enforcing the civil rights act. the census forms the basis of what we do in our democracy. is the census is rigged, all of american democracy is corrupted as a result. >> let's listen to the leader of the leadership conference on civil rights. she used to be the deputy general over the civil rights department. this is what she had to say. >> jeff sessions has been no champion of civil rights and called the voting rights act an intrusion and to say suddenly that jeff sessions justice department has found religion on the voting rights act and that is the basis for this is laughable. the decision to add a citizenship question that was

made yesterday by secretary ross, in effect, weaponizes the census for the kind of partisan agenda that donald trump and jeff sessions have been promoting. the trump administration is purposely setting the census up to ensure in this kind of context a depression of participation of certain vulnerable communities. >> you cocur with that. there's some other motivation here? >> i think there's two. the first is to massively suppress areas with immigrants group so they have less political representation. longer term what the republican party wants to do is draw districts based on citizenship rather than total population which is how it's always been done. you count everyone when it comes to drawing districts. the supreme court said two years ago said that's how you do it.

they are trying to rig the census to protect the republican party's power. this is so corrosive by rigging census they will rig all of democracy. everything will be affected. there will be collateral damage to republicans too. there's a lot of republicans in florida, texas, nevada in states with lots of immigrants that will suffer. >> they were all counted because that's the way the census was built. let's go to you kurt. he will participate in the lawsuit to try to block the citizenship question. there's a lot of litigation to come on this. you wrote a piece in usa today and the headline of it is republicans protected the census against obama power grab. will they stop donald trump? explain. >> back in 2009 the early obama administration wanted to move

the sensor director to report to rahm e manummanuel. they called it shameful. the nominee for commerce secretary with draw his nomination over the issue. the white house decided not to go through with it. later on when the rnc tried to politicize the census by sending out deceptive mail pieces, republicans worked with democrats to pass legislation to make that practice illegal. republicans had a long history of defending the census, moving past politics and legislating when they thought the plitization was happening. that's how important the census is. it's about how we count ourselves. republicans passed resolutions saying that exact language. every person needs to be counted. 50 republicans co-sponsored the

solution. here we are a decade later, donald trump is making the most overt plitization of the census to undercount populations. they want to suppress the voices. where are the republicans now? >> there's another history here. i can recall back before the 2010 census. he said he would have a gun ready for anyone who tried to come to his home as a census taker. there was a huge out cry on the far right against the census because they were claiming even then there were some attempt to overcount minorities or racialize the census. what do you make of this long standing desire to game or oppose the idea of counting based on who all is here? >> what we have seen the least politically is with minority p populati

population, republicans are losing them. the demographics are against them. they realize they are an endangered species the way they have been going. couple that with alarming rhetoric of donald trump about minorities in this country and referred to mexicans coming to america as rapists. how he referred to immigrants. you couple that with this move to change that for the first time in 70 years. that's republicans do not want to count minorities because they know politically they will become extinct. >> ari, when you have wilbur ross saying hi gave into the idea of doing what he thought was a not so great idea in the beginning and the idea came to him from jeff session who is is known to be nativist. who coretta scott king said should never get on a court because of his racism.

>> the administration is turning the census into a weapon of voter suppression. they are taking one of most important things we have done in this country since 1790 which is to accurately count every person in america and they're saying no. we're going to count some people and not others. the 2010 census missed 1.5 million people of color. those people got fewer economic resources,less political reputation by not being counted. now that undercount will be so much bigger. this was before the citizenship question was added. i asked would you respond to the census and they told me no. there's a climate of fear in this country with regards to immigration because of muslim bans and i.c.e. rates. donald trump will ask them are you a citizen. nobody will answer that

question. the whole census will be corrupted. that will affect every aspect of american democracy. >> we twhoe there are some on the right. these quote alt right who would love to have the change be that we only apportion resources based on who is a citizen and not on who is in the state. >> more than that, i think they would love to weaponize a list that tells people who is here and who is not supposed to be here through citizenship. there's a real concern what this administration would do with a list like that especially in the backdrop of the dreamers, muslim ban and daca. there's nothing to stop this administration from overstepping their authority to try to deport people and break families up and attack immigrants and minority families. that will lead to people not participating in the census and an undercount in minorities and population. this will have a kcascading affect that will far outlast

this president. >> that information in the hands of i.c.e. will be why people are so afraid to answer this. thank you very much both of you. >> thank you. coming up, at the top of the hour, martin luther king iii discussing his father's legacy and ongoing debate over police withdr brutality. from your allergy pills? most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase allergy relief is different. flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. and 6 is greater than 1. start your day with flonase for more complete allergy relief. flonase. this changes everything.

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neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. - this is what america's about. - sometimes it's nice to see all the good that's out there. bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. we're going to end the government corruption and we're going to drain the swamp in washington, d.c. >> donald trump's promise to drain the swamp is being put to the test yet again. scott pruitt is under fresh scrutiny because of the unusually good deal he got in housing on capitol hill. he paid just $50 for each night that he stayed in condo owned by the wife of a top energy lobbyist. the typical rate for rooms in that area is $120 a night. here to discuss that and other topics is msnbc political analyst. scott pruitt seems to be added

to a very long list. we have ben carson with the $130,000 desk. we have people flying first class because people might recognize them in coach. now he's getting why does it seem to be so slow, giving them an exit out of the administration? >> because the whole administration is essentially defined by the corruption we're seeing in these cabinet officials. and there's no oversight in congress. once you take away the oversight in congress, there's no incentive for these people to follow the rules. it starts from the top, right? the fish rots from the head. they're following their boss's example. scott pruitt ordered a $43,000 phone booth for his office that they had to build a concrete slab. >> like he's superman. >> like he's superman. i don't understand why they are spending our money in this particular way. i thought republicans were supposed to be fiscally conservative. >> fiscally conservative for poor people, right? poor people should not have

things like medicaid or food stamps. >> we're going to cut hud's budget but we'll get an expensive dining room table. >> they want to live in luxurious style while working for the president. howard dean, the way to get fired apparently in the trump administration is either, after multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple cases of being found to be an abuser of your spouse and then they sometimes want you back, or opposing privatization. here is david shulkin who up until this week was the veterans affairs secretary, on "all in" on thursday explaining why he was shown the door. >> the president made a decision on who he wants to represent veterans affairs in the cabinet. that's a decision the president makes. there was clear evidence, though, that the political appointees inside va were working against me and my leadership team because they felt that we were trying to strengthen the va rather than move it towards privatization.

>> and governor dean, this idea of privatizing the va, like privatizing medicare, medicaid, social security, has been hanging around the gop for quite some time. how alarmed are you that now they're firing people to try to make it happen? >> well, i'm alarmed because trump is so corrupt. as zorina was saying, there's speculation now that he fired shulkin from the va because contractors want to get contracts. this will probably be the most corrupt administration in the history of the country. he's got a few more years to prove that, but i think that's pretty likely. i'm not alarmed because the veterans groups do not want this privatized, period. veterans are an extremely potent voting group. there are a lot of organizations, none of them conservative or more moderate or liberal, want this to happen.

>> and you've had david shulkin write an op-ed in which he says, "i'm convinced privatization is aimed at rewarding select people and companies with profits even if it undermines veterans." we've seen this idea of profiting off of government, trump is doing it, there's an already an emoluments case to that fact. >> it's very concerning. you put somebody, nominate someone like ronny jackson who has no experience over an agency that is the second largest, 360,000 employees, that means you don't care about veterans if you're the president of the united states and making this decision. that's concerning. also, as howard said, there are levels to this corruption. when we assumed that trump would follow the rules if we told him what they were, divest from companies, we should have known when he did not release his tax

returns during the campaign that he was not going to follow inevitab any of those rules. as howard said, we'll learn a lot more about the level of corruption in this administration and we need to keep an eye on that heading into the midterm elections. democrats need to be talking about implementing oversight because republicans aren't going to do it. >> governor dean, you have voters in florida who elected rick scott to be governor after it was found his company had the record largest medicare fraud in this country's history. he also defrauded tricare. he claimed to not know anything about the company he ran. that kind of alleged corruption went right over the heads of most voters in florida and they elected him anyway and reelected him. is there concern that the message of corruption doesn't necessarily work on voters?

>> first of all, howard is fine, don't worry about the "governor dean" stuff. >> we like to give people their honorif honorifics. >> i appreciate it. i'm pretty relaxed about that stuff. this is a fascinating question, this could be a question for a whole show. why do people vote for people like donald trump or rick scott who do have histories of corruption? and that's a good question. are we to blame for the fact that we choose bad leaders in a democracy, which we're allowed to do as voters? that's one of the rules of democracy. that's one of the arguments against democrats by people like president xi of china who just decided to make himself president for life. people do it for a variety of reasons. some people don't think there is corruption or don't care about corruption as long as it's on their side. and i think this is a yardstick we have to hold both the democrats and the republicans to. corruption is not okay, whether it's on your side or somebody

else's side. it's a great weakness of the republican party right now, they're not calling out trump's corruption. >> i think you're right, and there is a larger moral question we have to ask as a society because the kind of people we're electing, are these the avatars we want? if there's clear corruption at work or things like sexual harassment and people don't care, there is a question whether you can legislate that at the ballot box. thank you very much. i'm going to start calling you dr. dean, since you're showing your hand about being shy. >> howard is okay! >> all right, howard. more after the break. y nice. now i'm turning into my dad. i text in full sentences. i refer to every child as chief. this hat was free. what am i supposed to do, not wear it? next thing you know, i'm telling strangers defense wins championships. -well, it does. -right? why is the door open? are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood? at least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto.

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now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. that is our show for today. be sure to watch "a.m. joy" tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel. but now my good friend alex wkxt has all the news. >> that's fit to print or talk about. >> thank you so much. a very good day to all of you. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. here's what's happening right now. the president taking to twitter today with an attack on one of america's fastest growing companies. but it does not end with a swipe at amazon. there's more to this story. we've got reaction ahead. the epa chief under scrutiny for his d.c. leaving arrangements, reportedly causing tension among white house officials. stormy's strategy. her lawyer doubling down, saying