that's a rap for this hour of msnbc live. i'm alex witt. i'll see you again at noon. happy easter to all of you. now it's time for "am joy" with my good friend, joy reid. >> that's why i'm out here, man. i'm a father of two. they skilled stephon clark. they killed alton. they continue to kill us it could be any of us. now having a little bit of color to your skin means you're guilty. that shouldn't be the case. >> good morning. for those of you celebrating,

happy east ever and happy passover from "am joy." well, the world continues to watch as young americans drive the national debate over guns. a key component of gun violence often goes overlooked. kira simon, a parkland student delivered that point on our show yesterday. >> initially after the shooting it began with scoot shootings and then broadened to gun violence throughout america. there's police brutality, gun violence every day in inner city communities and it's not getting the attention. >> police brutality against men, women and even children, even if it was missing during the debate over parkland, couldn't stay out of the headlines for long. 22-year-old stephon clark was killed by sacramento police in his grandmother's back yard. he was unarmed. according to a private autopsy requested by the family he was shot eight times with all but one of those shots striking him

in the back. police were in the area responding to a report of vandalism. in baton rouge, louisiana, police just released body footage showing officer blane salamoni threatening to kill alton sterling before fatally shooting him in 2016. the state announced it will not press charges against the officers involved in the shooting. joining me from john j. college, maya wiley senior vice president for social justice. jamil smith of rolling stone and eugene scott of "the washington post." thank you all for being here. phillip, we're going to start with alton sterling because you have new information you just gleaned this morning. why don't you share that with us? >> that's right, joy. i was able to speak with two individuals associated with the baton rouge police department. this is in the broader context. whenever there's the investigation, we get the outcome, but wep often don't get transparency into the facts of

the investigation. we work in police departments all over the country. it's not uncommon for law enforcement to reach out to us. today i heard a number of disturbing elements. first, there are those in the baton rouge police department and those recently retired from who believe this case was held until after the election with the hopes of a more favorable outcome for the officer? >> after the presidential election? >> yes. they felt the prosecutors were told not to. perhaps most disturbingly, folks in the department want it to be known that the director of training in the baton rouge police department has said this individual is going to kill someone unless we have a hold on him. >> meaning salamoni. >> that exact statement happened before the shooting which is to say -- and this is not uncommon, police departments often are not surprised by the individuals who are involved in this, that they know and there is motivation not to have that be spread

elsewhere. i also want to say, one of the pop i spoke to was a 30-plus-year veteran on a force. that this individual in baton rouge and around louisiana understands that black communities have the back of law enforcement. as a result it's important for law enforcement to have the community's back 110%. it's disheartening for the officers. that's why they're reaching out. that frankly, they don't feel they want to be serving with these kinds of people and there are situations larger than them conspiring to make these elements of the case silent. >> i can tell you from personal experience, friends of mine on the police force and at very high levels on the police force, don't want blane salamoni serving anywhere near them. police officers don't want these guys around either. i want to play it one more time, and i realize it's easter and passover. normally i wouldn't do this on a sunday when a lot of people are in a religious mind. i want to play a little bit of

this body cam video to drove home the point of who blane salamoni is and was on the day he killed -- committed what a lot of people believe was a purposeful killing of alton sterling. >> what i did? what i did, sir? >> i'm going to shoot your [ bleep ]. put your hands on the car. put your hands on the car and i'm going to shoot you in your [ bleep ] head. don't you [ bleep ] move. >> all right. hold up, hold up. you're hurting my arm. hold on, hold on. >> tase his [ bleep ]. >> maya, the investigation that was done internally resulted in blane salamoni being fired from the police department, but the attorney general's report, went through the report in detail. the two experts hired to go through the report are both

former police officers, one from the notorious baltimore pd. they found even that screaming of obscenities, 90 seconds before killing him, putting a gun to his head, they found none of that was dispositive of anything being done wrong or the officers being, quote, in fear for their life from a man pinned on the ground. your feelings on what they have to say this morning? >> policing in the united states is in trouble. it's in trouble if we have the kinds of scenarios we're seeing playing out on video across the country going unaddressed from a standpoint of transparency and accountability from the behavior of individual police officers. phil is right in saying individual police officers. as we know, there are many police officers building trust and relationships with the community and recognize that their safety is actually tied to those relationships, that they

themselves will be safer. what's really happening here is a mentality that happens far too often in police departments which is a feeling of we have to protect our own to protect ourselves when, in fact, it makes police more vulnerable. >> absolutely. i want to go to eugene on this and i want to let our viewers know we have reached out to the office of the attorney general of louisiana who, by the way, is a former member of the tea party caucus. he was a congressman, and he was a tea party house member before he had the job he has now. we have reached out to the attorney general's office for comment. and if we get that comment, we will bring that to you. you jea eugene, the idea that police departments who are investigating cases that could be excessive force or even criminal matters preferring and hoping that donald trump would be elected and that the attorney general would be someone like

jefferson sessions rather than someone like loretta lynch or eric holder. is that something that among people in washington was a common thought, that people believed policing would get a different look from a republican administration? is that something you've heard of capitol hill? >> absolutely. if you recall from the 2016 election, there were several large police unions that actually endorsed donald trump. they wanted him to enter the white house because they knew the approach he was going to take to policing regardless of who his attorney general was, was going to be significantly different from what was happening in the obama administration. we saw that happen. even in addition to getting jeff sessions into the department of justice, president trump attracted a lot of criticism for telling police to be rougher on suspects when arresting them, not to be as nice. it's quite a different take that he took actually during the election. if you go back, he actually

spoke out about there possibly being some racial bias and there possibly being an issue with discrimination in america between police officers and people of color and people believe he said those things in part to attract black voters during the whole "what in the hell do you have to lose" pitch. we have seen since entering the white house, the white house has referred to these things as local matters and displayed no interest in addressing things on a national level. we still haven't heard the president respond to this case or stephon clark. >> one of the things we have seen happening is blane salamoni is appealing his firing by the baton rouge police department. in theory he could, if he doesn't get his job back, go to another police department and get a job there. we've seen a number of these cases where an officer is turfed out in one case and then another. tamir rice case is one of them, an officer pushed out of a department. comes to cleveland, kills tamir

rice and is not prosecuted. also in cleveland, the michael brelo case. this is a police officer acquitted of manslaughter in the 2012 deaths of melissa williams and timothy russell after a police chase. officer mistook the car back firing for gunshots. officer brelo fired, jumped onto the hood, in total police officers fired over 137 rounds into that car killing two people. neither of them were convicted of a crime. all of whom were able to return to work. your thoughts, jamil? >> neither convicted of the crime but certainly got the death sentence. what you saw in my hometown was 'em mattic of what we see in too many countries throughout this country which is this systemic bias, implicit bias within police departments against

communities of colors. in sack men know, you see a community that has had enough of this. you see people who are traumatized not simply by the killing of stephon clark, but also by past killings. there was a march on the day of his funeral on thursday, and a young woman who i spoke with was stuck in traffic by the march. she got out and supported them because her cousin had been killed by police in chico, california which is nearby. we're talking about a nationwide issue here. i think eugene's column spoke well to that point and so did april ryan. i think what the white house is attempting to do here by saying it's a local matter is to deny the systemic nature of the problem, to say it's a few bad apples when, in fact, we know it's not the case. >> there was an incident yesterday reporting a sheriff's vehicle hit a woman at the stephon clark protest. you're seeing cities pay out

multimillion dollar settlements rather than adjusting the problem. you see it over and over again. these cities in a way would rather pay out of their coffers. >> it begs the question, is that the worth of a black life? the criminal system is saying people don't have to go to jail. but the civil system, either through negotiations or through actual findings and saying actually there was wrongdoing. people are getting fired. is that the worth of a black life? i have to echo what i heard all this morning from everyone i spoke to in baton rouge. where else are these communities supposed to go? if you don't think this is a national issue but you say you're concerned about public safety, when you see this over and over and over again, where are you supposed to go? i've got line officers, lieutenants, chiefs, calling saying i don't want you to have to qualify anymore that many are

good but. i want you to be able to talk about the many things we do without this dark stain on our career. these are peoples lives they've committed to this. 30 and 40-year veterans saying i don't want to have my city pay out $6 million for an officer that we knew shouldn't have been on a job in the first place because they have anger control issues, baurz they want to go into a barrel roll at a kid's birthday party. that's insane. i work with too many good chiefs and too many good law enforcement officers for us to decide this is a local issue as if we're too dumb to see a national pattern. >> everyone is talking about the local issue thing. in case our viewers don't know what we're referring to. this is reporter april ryan asking sarah huckabee sanders about it. >> what does he say about weeding out bad policing when you continue to see these kinds of situations occur over and over again.

>> these specific cases and these specific instances, those would be left up to local authorities to make that determination and not something for the federal government. >> eric garner cried out 11 times saying i can't believe. his mother still looking for indictments of the police officers. does the president ask what's the status, if something is going to happen? >> once again, these would be local matters that should be left up to the local authority. >> very quickly, eugene scott, any thought that the department is going to have any changes on that? >> absolutely not. to this white house, these still are local isolated issues despite being able to name incidents from all across the country, usually in places that the president has not won himself, we should not expect significant change any time soon. >> very quick, jamil smith, black lives matter has been a lot less active in the trump era. any reporting on why and whether or not the intimidation factor

from the fire departmeederal go playing a role? >> that's not sacramen sacramento. i don't think that's an accurate assessment. >> maya? >> three times more likely to be shot by a police officer if you're black. three times. the reality is the law says when you can use lethal force. it doesn't say when you should use lethal force. the critical question here is public accountability on how police departments are going to train and enforce rules around when you should, not just whether you can. >> phillip, keep us posted on the things you heard today, the updates we've gotten today that potentially the investigation into the alton sterling case was deliberately held until after the election in the hopes that a more favorable administration, being donald trump, would come into office, that federal prosecutors may have wanted to prosecute but were instructed not to do so, and the director

of training in baton rouge may have issued a dire warning about blane salamoni, the officer involved in that shooting. we appreciate your time. thank you. we'll have you all back. up next, more "am joy."

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of isis we'll be coming out of syria very soon. let the other people take care of it now. very soon, very soon we're coming out. >> donald trump's announcement on u.s. troops in syria apparently took the pentagon and state department by surprise. he followed up by freezing more than $200 million in funds for the syrian recovery effort. both moves come as tensions are growing throughout the middle east. on friday at least 17 palestinian protesters were killed and hundreds of others injured in clashes with israeli troops. the bloodiest day in gaza in four years. the protests are expected to continue over the next several weeks. joining me, foreign affairs columnist bobby ghosh, nbc's keir simmons and jennifer rubin of "the washington post." what's going on there? >> a large group of palestinians that were protesting on the border between gaza and israel. there was stone throwing, burning of tires, pretty

standard operating procedures as we've seen from the palestinians. things got out of hand. they say they were shot upon from the crowd, and the result is hundreds of people were injured and, as you say, 17 people died, especially bad timing -- there's no such thing as good timing for 17 people to die, but bad timing given the fact that tensions around the region are now at sort of a boiling point. there's going to be i think some inquiry within israel about what happened and why the idea of open fire -- there was controversial tweets that went out from the idea of the twitter account that were deleted. initially suggesting they knew what they were doing. there was language in between saying we knew where every bullet was going, which depending on the context can sound quite frightening. that was taken down. i'm sure there will be inquiries. where that will lead us is hard

to tell. palestinians are obviously infuriated and we can expect to see more protests in the days to come. >> keir, this is coming at a time when the u.s. announced it's going to move the embassy to jerusalem which has inflamed tensions in the region. donald trump apparently surprised his own government by saying we're getting out of syria. can you give us the lay of the land and how diplomats are processing this at a time when u.s. leadership in the region doesn't seem to be exactly strong? >> i think it's right to mention that the planned move ofincreasg tensions across that part of the world. in terms of syria and that quote from president trump, it reminded me of that famous church hill that dip moment see is telling people to go to hell and have them ask for directions.

it's so complex -- how long have you got to try to explain the different sides? the u.s. maintains 2,000 troops there. there's fighting between the kurds and the turks, between the rebels around damascus. that's been happening for some time. i was in damascus some time ago. you could hear fighting in the city. as i understand it, that's still the case. then you have russia involved negotiating, trying to remove the rebels in the areas outside of damascus. you have iran involved. the real question is, clearly president trump apparently was elected on the basis of trying to pull out from regions like that. the question for the u.s. is are you prepared to stand back and see what potentially happens if you do pull out, are you happy to see russia in control? are you happy to see iran have a direct land route from tehran to damascus. if you're happy with all that, and israel is happy with all

that, then go ahead. >> wow. let me come to you on this, jennifer. rex tillerson, the former secretary of state had one idea about hat the u.s. was going to do in syria. apparently donald trump has another. here is rks in january talking about what we were clearly going to be doing. >> let us be clear, the united states will maintain a military presence in syria focused on ensuring isis cannot reemerge. our military mission in syria will remain conditions-based. we cannot make the same mistakes that were made in 2011 when a premature departure from iraq allowed al qaeda in iraq to survive. >> he's being replaced with a more hawkish figure, and incoming the the national security adviser spot at the same time is this gentleman, john bolton -- i want to play for you the greeting john bolton

got from our defense secretary general mattis on thursday. >> thanks for coming. it's good to finally meet you. >> i've heard you're the devil incarnate and i wanted to meet you. >> jennifer, how sanguine are you on our management of the middle east with these guys incoming and probably the last voice for ratcheting down tensions and remaining in syria out the door. >> a very peculiar statement by donald trump. that's not been the policy either of the state department or the defense department. now, john bolton, although he's known as a hawk, really has no interest in syria whatsoever which is a little bizarre since us bugging out of syria means russia is much more firmly in control. russia would be ap ploweding if the u.s. pulled its troops out. it's contrary to our stated policy of applying pressure to iran because iran is the big

winner. the u.s. pulling out is one more sign that we're letting putin control the middle east. our policy is not supposed to be that. now, as far as the incoming national security adviser, i'm not at all comfortable. as we know, john bolton, at least in print has been uber aggressive, arguing for a first strike against north korea, for a strike against iran, saying negotiations are worth ms. if he thinks running a national security policy and coordinating for the president is the same as running -- writing an op ed, we're in a heck of a lot of trouble and we're going to see a lot more violence in the world. he is now in the big boy chair, and it would behoove him to start acting with more restraint, more thoughtfulness, coordinating, getting serious input from general mattis who is

about the only one i think who can restrain trump at this point, and making sure there is a good decision process. my concern is that john bolton is not one who should be in charge of coordinating and presenting conflicting and sometimes differing points of view. he has such a strong personality. i fear he will run roughshod and present his own views only to the president. >> i don't mean to surprise our producers. if we have a map of the region, i would love to put it up. this is a mess. you've got john bolton who made it clear he would very much like to first strike against iran, as jennifer rubin just said. you have syria where the u.s. essentially is creseeding contr to russia. you have iraq which is problematic. united arab emirates is trying to get us to turn on qatar which was our friend and we have 11,000 troops.

this is a mess. do you see anyone inside the administration that has the ability to fix and coordinate this mess. it feels like our policies are spinsing out of control. i'm not sure donald trump listens to anyone or knows the region. >> it's not a question of who remains in the cabinet. it's a question of who is donald trump listening to. it's not clear he's listening to anyone. john bolton, his position in iran is well known. he finds himself serving a president who is essentially ceding territory. it can't sitcom fortable with john bolton that his president is walking away from a fight. john bolton has never met a war he didn't like. here he finds himself in a situation where he has a president who wants to walk away from a war and leave the field to a country, iran, that bolton loathes with every fiber of his being. it's not a question of who thinks what in the cabinet.

any given day, any given hour, it's about how the president of the united states feels. >> not only that john bolton, but donald trump's good friends, the saudis loathe as well. >> the saudis would not like to see the united states walk out of syria and leave the battleground to iran. so this is -- he con found -- every time he speaks out he confounds his allies a. that's the crucial thing, the president saying something and the president doing something as we've seen over and over again, not necessarily the same thing. >> two very different things. bobby ghosh, thank you. jennifer and keir will join me again later in the show. we'll take a hop down memory lane next.

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pope francis, blessing pictures of my children and late mom and grandmother. what, i asked him, is your message to america. pray for the poor he told me. pray for the families. >> nbc's very own keir simmons shared that special moment with the pope just a few days ago after getting an exclusive look inside the vatican during one of the most important beeks in the catholic faith, holy week. ea earlier in the week he stirred major controversy that the vatican is pushing back on. joining us is our very own keir simmons. first of all, lucky you to get to meet this pope. i find him to be the most compelling pontiff in a very long time. give us more, what were your takeaways from talking to him. what is his basic message to the world? >> i don't want to exaggerate the conversation you had with

him. you saw most of it there in that clip. i had pictures of my family. he blessed them, gave us a blessing. then i asked the question, what is your message for america. it was quintessential pope francis, pray for the poor, pray for the families. it is an extraordinary place, the vatican. one priest described it as heaven brought down to earth. when you see it, it helps to understand the bringing together of art and history and religion, particularly during the renaissance period. so there's that aspect, just the sheer beauty of it. of course, there is the side of your faith, and what i always think about, joy, on a day like this, what an extraordinary message it is, easter. the idea that human beings have a purpose beyond death, that we are not just individuals, that we share something that goes

beyond our mortal existence on this earth. those are fantastic, revolutionary at the time ideas that still resonate. i guess that's really kind of one of the things, as with every pope, that pope francis has tried to bring us back to. joy, there will be people shouting at the television saying that's not what easter is about. that's okay, too. i want to tell you, you saw the pope blessing my mom and grandmother there. gram used to walk back from church, the first half of the walk complaining about the priest and the second complaining about pope whoever it was. he was talking to young people and he said, it's up to you not to keep quiet. even if others keep quiet. if we older people and leaders, so often corrupt, if a whole world keeps quiet and loses its

joy, i ask you will you cry out. that's him. >> absolutely. that was one of the pieces i was going to play. i'll play a different one then. he also did early this morning in his easter message talking about those with political power. take a listen. >> translator: we also implore fruits of wisdom for those who have political responsibilities in our world, that they may always respect human dignity, devote themselves actively to the pursuit of the common good and ensure the development and security of their own citizens. >> the pope was very critical of the state of the world on friday in his talk. he said i'm ashamed of the state of the world. he specifically called out young people, as you said, to take over essentially and to push the world forward morally. he specifically said the protection of the poor and immigrants. how poignant is that on a day when the president of the united states is attacking daca

recipients. >> i guess you can potentially overread these things. we don't want to give the pope a political motivation that he hasn't necessarily expressed. inevitably there's going to be a whole bunch of people who are going to read that there. keep in mind today, he also talked about ending the carnage in syria. he talked about south sudan and the democratic republic of congo and also the korean peninsula. i think we can say this, i suspect he looks out around the world and feels like there aren't enough people advocating simply for peace. that message seems to have been lost. think about the conversation we had in the last blog, we talk about what kind of war is right, should we do this in war and that in war. ultimately really war is the worst.

that is what the pope is trying to say. >> we're out of time. the vatican is pushing back on the pope saying there isn't a hell. any update on the pope's position on that? >> no. they have to keep up with this pope, the vatican. i think it goes into kind of the fairly detailed questions about the scriptures and issues that we don't have time for. but, yeah, he's an outspoken one. >> he is indeed. always controversial, but a very fascinating gentleman. thank you very much. appreciate your time, keir simmons. happy easter. >> and to you. >> evangelicals are turning a blind eye to the stormy daniels scandal. next up, why they're standing by their man, donald trump. peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales.

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we came with big appetites. with expedia, you could book a flight, hotel, car, and activity all in one place. ♪ - there's a common thread i see every time i'm in the field. while this was burning, you were saving other homes. neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. - this is what america's about. - sometimes it's nice to see all the good that's out there. bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. americans want their president to be evangelical. christians want the president to be pastoral. we like that. but that isn't really the job assignment. the job assignment is to keep us safe. that's the primary thing. people knew -- this was back in

'07 i think, this accusation, people knew the accusations against the president before he was elected. they said, actually, we care about security. actually we care about the economy. this is not a post er election for the evangelical world. >> polls showy van gel cals have found ways to stand by their man. even amid scandals of multiple allegations of sexual misconduct to the alleged hush money paid to stormy daniels, after third wife melania gave birth to his fifth child. one wonders what will be in those easter answer mons. joining us frank schaffer, the author of "why i'm an atheist who believes in god." thank you for being here. you wrote a piece titled this easter america's evangelicals

relieve in the alt reality of their porn star prez. please explain, sir. >> thank you, joy. happy easter to you, too. i grew up in the religious right. i was an activist in the '70s and '80s. back in those days long before i left the religious right and became a progressive activist who tends to vote for democratic candidates, our emphasis was on personal morality and accountability. everything has changed now. evangelicals have folded the believe that trump has been given to america by god into their theology. you can no more argue with an evangelical today about his presidency or whether he is a good person or should be president or what he does or his brutality and his lies and convince them of it. you would have just as difficult

a time arguing them out of a theological position. this has become a matter of theology for evangelicals. as such, all the political arguments, in fact, facts themselves, do not apply. evangel caps are absolutists. you mentioned my book, the title denotes a sense that there is paradox in this world and people who are certainty addicts tend to do bad things i've never heard of anybody blowing up an abortion clinic or a white police officer shooting a black man or someone bombing a mosque after they shout "but i could be wrong." that's the problem with evangelicals today, they never think about the alternative. since trump has been accepted as part of their absolutist theology, there's no arguing with it. that's why they'll support him to the bitter end. >> to your point, if you look at the polling, a new pew poll, white evangel caps stand out

along white mainline prot stands, almost 50/50. black protestants oppose. catholics almost 60/40 are against donald trump. why is it that white evangelicals, if everyone has the core theological basis are alone in being so absolutely supportive of donald trump despite all his flaws? >> it's not just the white evangelicals. the conservative roman catholics like laura ingram, she had me on her show when i wrote a book about my son being in the marine corps. look at her, she's a convert to catholicism. here we are in holy week culminating in easter and she chooses this time to mock a teenager who stood up against gun violence, jukt pose that

with the pope on pope francis. here is someone who had breast cancer, who survived it, laura ingram did, saying after she had breast cancer, she was going to reexamine her life and dedicate herself to higher things. look at the fall that she has taken now, a poster child for imitating donald trump's ugly intolerance. imagine that, in holy week. at the time when christians around the world are saying he is risen, truly he is risen answers the other christian and who do we hate next is the evangelical or conservative roman catholic point of view, to the point of mocking kids who stand against violence. think about that, joy. that's where we are. the mentality is we follow trump not just into the gutter with his porn star presidency and the filth of his own past life and mob connections and the rest of it. we even now find these leaders following him into the intolerance where it is okay in their view to mock a teen who stands on violence. that's where we are this easter

morning. so when saying happy easter, it's not a happy easter. we're in a moment of betrayal, of the teaching of jesus that was the watershed. i speak of this as a christian, the watershed in the ethical development of human consciousness, that put your neighbor first and lifted humility up as something to be admired. we have an arrogant president. and those who follow him are imitating this vial behavior in holy week and easter no less. that's where america is this easter morning. >> i have to play on that et no, jerry falwell, junior, who styles himself as a christian, an evangelical. he would i believe consider himself to be a moral man. this is him on cnn wednesday. this is post the stormy daniels' interview talking about donald trump and throwing bill clinton in. >> i still go back to the issues. i think we -- just like with bill clinton, many of his supporters stuck with him no

matter what he was accused of, even rape i believe he was accused of. it's a hypothetical question so i can't really answer it. >> hypothetically you would be okay with even that? is that what you're opening the door to, rape? >> no. i would say i have to wait and see the circumstances. >> that was jerry falwell, junior, saying he couldn't definitively say he would stop supporting donald trump if he was accused of rape. >> i knew him when he was a young man. i spoke at his father's church when i was in the religious right myself. if you told jerry falwell, senior, that his son would be talking this way 30-some years after fallen senior formed the, quote, moral majority, he would be shocked. the fact is, where we are this morning is not that trump sleeps with, has sex with porn stars or this is the problem.

the problem is his policies, racism, bigotry, hatred, separating families, grabbing 7-year-old little girls away from their mothers, saying he's going to nuke people. forget all the porn star president stuff for a minute. that's just a good handle on how far these evangelical, self righteous people, the laura ingrams of the world will go. the policies, in is epiphany that jesus said we should judge a civilization on how we treat these folks. when you're living in a country where a black man can be shot with impunity and nothing happens to the police force, we have a problem. when you're living somewhere where the dreamers are being separated from their families, that's with have a problem. that's where the christians have denied jesus this easter. >> indeed. frank schaffer, always a pleasure talking to you. you're right. it's problematic. we need to have a moral

reawakening. hopefully we'll have you back on and talk about the other side of this. there are things like the poor people's campaign trying to bring back the other side which is also rooted in christian principles. >> thank you. coming back the next hour, the return of "roseanne." more "am joy" after the break. puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. she told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar, but for people with type 2 diabetes treating their cardiovascular disease, victoza® is also approved to lower the risk of major cv events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. while not for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. (announcer) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2,

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even look at roseanne, i called her yesterday. i look at her ratings, look at her ratings. they were unbelievable.

over 18 million people and it was about us. they haven't figured it out. the fake news hasn't quite figured it out yet. >> us, welcome back to "am joy." ratings obsessed former reality tv star donald trump was pumped about the return of "roseanne." the title character is a trump supporter as is the actor who plays her, roseanne barr. she's mythologized as blue collar though she's well off. she revels in provoking people. remember her version of the national anthem back in 1990. ♪ the land of the free ♪ and the home of the brave >> she apparently believes condition spir see theories

about democrats and hillary clinton that track with internet extremists. she keeps promoting q none is who claims to be a high ranking government official with inside knowledge of the white house where he claims trump is planning mass arrests of top democrats for allegedly being involved in a satanic child sex trafficking ring. her plugging of qanon's theories drew attention when she treated president trump has freed so many children held in bondage to pimps all over the world, hundreds each month. he's broken up trafficking rings in places everywhere. she said she was talking about actual sex trafficking busts that have taken place during trump's term. okay. this happened a few days after she had to delete a different tweet where she responded to a photo of parkland survivor with

two words, nazi salute. joining me, msnbc contributor gabriel sherman and actor director rob reiner. gabe, i watched the first episode and half the second episode of the show. i have to say that my take on it tracked exactly with roxanne gay who had a terrific piece in "the new york times," the "roseanne" rebo reboot. you have this family who people knew, the connors from the '90s, this blue collar family, but they're trying to be everything. they're both incredibly open minded when it comes to their gender non-conforming grandchild. they have this black granddaughter who is just there with everybody else and they don't say anything about it. at the same time they are trump supporters, at least roseanne and her husband are. it strikes me as the way trump

voters want to see themselves about want to be seen and the way that most of the mainstream media sort of obsessively portrays them. >> on top of the fact it's the way the tv networks want to tap into this large audience that they feel they missed. "the new york times" had a piece that the day after the election abc executives got together and said we have to capture this phenomenon. i think this sort of obsessing over who these people are missing the fact that donald trump is the president, let's look at what he says, and "the new york times" has been just as guilty of this as other institutions covering white supremacists, that profile they did of the white nationalists, a good father and does all this -- >> he's at whole foods. look at him. >> that's irrelevant to the underlying politics here. >> absolutely. maya, it's interesting. there's the roseanne on the show who they're trying to make all -- they've crammed every hot button issue, in just the first message, including her sister

being hillary clinton who voted for jill stein with the hat on. >> i'm waiting for the undocumented cousin. >> but they still like trump who doesn't like any of these people and they don't get it. the real roseanne in a lot of ways to me, it kind of makes sense. she in a lot of ways does track with at least a good percentage of trump supporters. she has this tweets going all the way back to 2012, reptile-like criminals in control of our government. pelosi is a reptile. watch their eyes. there's a headline from the blaze, the glenn beck outlet, roseanne bar says pelosi is a criminal and reptile and we need to vote her out. she believes conspiracy theories and she is alt right in her tweaking of liberals. you remember her infamous dressed up as hitler for a photo shoot. i should note that was for "heeb" magazine, a jewish satire magazine.

a lot of people were freaked out where she has little cookies in an oven. in a way she does in a sense track with tumism. >> she does. one thing this underscores is fear and insecurity of a rapidly changing world, one that is changing demographically. there's not going to be one racial majority in this country very, very soon. demography is not destiny. it doesn't mean we'll have a fully fair world. the point is, that kind of insecurity is feeding and driving in very deep, divisive, scary alt right world. a zero fact zone. there are no facts that underlie the belief system that is actually serving in a very disturbing way russian bots and the kremlin's efforts to drive deeper divisions in this country. there's a relationship between the pizza gate story around hillary clinton and this new round of the sex crimes that apparently trump is going after

around democrats. that's actually one story. that's not separate stories. it's fundamentally about propaganda. >> qanon also has this whole developed theory there is no russia gate, it's a fake investigation. it's really an investigation of democrats. it's insane if you go into the worm hole of it. rob, on the point of what this show tries to do, obviously the brilliant norman lear did this very well in the early 1970s on "all in the family" in which you were a star. at that point do you feel what all in the family was trying to do with archie bunker was trying to navigate a changing world is materially different from what roseanne is doing? >> well, it's different in a very, very significant way in that in this case you have roseanne who is essentially that

character. carol o'connor was even far more left than i was. so we were satirizing the whole thing. she takes it to a different level because we didn't have social media in those days. you can push out a message like she did with this q-anon and the storm and all that. that takes on a tremendous power so you have fox news and sinclair and breitbart and info wars, and all of this which used to be considered and thought of as the lunatic fringe, if you will, have now become mainstream media. you have a situation where the truthful journalists, people who are pursuing the truth are diminished. and then you have this problem where democracy is really in trouble. i would go to maya's point which is i think really the core of all of this. it goes back to the original sin of this country which is

slavery, and we are fighting this last battle of the civil war, and those people who are the alt right, the white supremacists are hanging on for dear life and they're using these propaganda tools which are not just, like i say, lunatic fringe. they're now invading us, and you guys in the mainstream media seeking the truth are really fighting an uphill battle. this is a real battle right here for the soul of democracy. >> it is interesting, maya, back when "all in the family" was happening, this is the early nixon era where you have the southern strategy developed. all of that was set in queens. >> my father was onyx on's black list for real. >> we need to do a segment about that. there was not the amplification, to rob eats point. you h

they have an added megaphone because you have -- nixon wanted to have a fox news but he didn't. >> that's right. remember how donald trump won the election was by earned media and social media. he actually didn't earn it in any of the conventional ways that we've seen a successful presidential candidate typically win. a lot of this is about how do we take back our democracy when we have much less ability to ensure that we identify and understand what the facts are and actually come together as a community of people around our differences to find our common ground. social media has become a space that's breaking that apart more than pulling that together. >> i want to play a quick clip from the show. this is roseanne satirizing the whole take a knee venom no. >> this is the first dinner we've had as a family in a long time. let's try to survive it. >> first let's say grace. jackie, would you like to take a

knee? >> i just can't help feeling that this is almost a sitcom version of what the mainstream media is doing on a daily basis, of trying to ennoble the base that donald trump has and really sort of obsessively ennoble them. what do you think having a sitcom -- by the way, where it was popular is just in the middle of the country. got 18 million viewers, but it was not even in the top 20 on the coasts. >> i think a lot of this touches on the fact that people on the coast feel with the election of donald trump what happened to this country. rather than actually highlighting his politics which i find offensive and out of the mainstream, it's this effort to normalize and to understand, and i put that in quotes, rather than just again focus on what he is actually doing at the country. you look at the venphenomena of

j.d. vance's book, the obsession of who are these people. frank rich has done a lot of good writing on this in "new york magazine," forget trying to understand them. this is a shrinking part of the population with retrograde views and we should focus on how to move the country forward. >> rob, at the same time there's this powerful impulse in the media to normalize the president of the united states, to ennoble his base. we've had this long tradition of taking the white working class and putting them on a pedestal. donald trump did that in this campaign. a show like this, in your view, can it have the impact that donald trump really wants? he's so happy about it because i think he believes this will normalize him. this will ennoble his base in the minds of a lot of americans. >> i think it can help him because you have the star of the show essentially outside the show trumpeting all the things

that donald trump stands for. so it's not like -- you can separate in television -- there's room for a red state/blue state show. certainly those arguments are going on around dinner tables all over the country. but when you take the main character and that person is a personification of trump's point of view, then that puts that idea forward. now, 18 million people, that's a lot of people. when you couple that, like i said, with info wars and breitbart and sinclair and fox and all that, you have a tremendous megaphone. this is not a dog whistle anymore. this is a dog bull horn here. >> stay with me for a second. you worked in the studio system and you're familiar with the hollywood system. how much tolerance would a studio like abc, a company like disney essentially have for outside of her show roseanne barr continuing to essentially channel info wars and via

conspiracy theorists and tweeting about lizard people and pizza-gate. they just renewed her show after two episodes. how much tolerance for risk? >> this is the critical question here. we saw what happened when laura ingram said those things about david hogg. now you'll have abc and disney dealing with this kind of thing. they're going to have to walk a very fine line. i've got a feeling they're going to try to rein roseanne in outside the show. they're going to run into some very, very severe problems if you see any of those tweets that she's putting out outside the show because those things bleed. audiences have a hard time distinguishing between a character on television and something they see in real life. this blurs that line, eliminates

that line. so we'll see what happens. and we'll see how they handle it. >> she will be a very difficult person to keep under wraps and to silence. they'll have a challenge on her hands apparently for two seasons. thank you for maya wiley and rob reiner. happy easter and happy passover. more "am joy" coming up. in the modern world, it pays to switch things up. and when you switch to esurance, you can save time, worry, hassle, and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract

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that's where we are today, you and i, according to them, want to kill children. if we respond we're attacking children and we should have our tv shows and radio shows and music lives taken from us. fill me in on how we got here. >> first of all, i couldn't be more proud to be a member of the national rifle association along with millions and millions of law abiding families. to attack the good law abiding families of america when well-known predictable murderers commit these horrors is deep in the category of soulless. >> well, some conservative commentators and nra members are still attacking the survivors of the parkland shooting. take fox news host laura ingraham, for example, after mocking david hogg over his college admissions she apologized. that didn't stop more than 16 advertisers from fleaing. she surprised viewers with the

announcement of a quickly announced vacation. the resurrection is upon us. the sky in joe town on the way to station. to all our viewers and listeners, a blessed easter and happy passover. given it is easter sunday, i would like to share particularly powerful verses from the sass she referenced. deliver me, oh, my lord, from my enemies. let thigh good spiert lead me on a level path. gabriel sherman is back with me. also president of media matters. angelo, let me play one more excerpt from the ted nugent interview. >> all you have to do now is not only feel sorry for the liars, but you have to go against them and pray to god that the lies can be crushed and the liars can

be silenced, the lies from these poor mushy brain children who have been fed lies and parrot the lies, they are actually committing spiritual suicide because everything they recommend will cause more death and mayhem. these poor children, i'm afraid to say and it hurts me to say this, but the evidence is irrefutable, they have no soul. >> so acngelo, that is ted nuget who in 1977 gave an interview saying he took meth and poohed his pants so he wouldn't have to go to vietnam and reportedly adopted a 17-year-old girl so he could have sex with her. you have a veteran of these kinds of campaigns that target advertisers whoen there is offensive speech on television and radio. first i heard of you was glenn

beck -- there was a glenn beck show. he said president obama hates white people and hates the white culture, whatever that means. you've been involved in the stop rush limbaugh campaign, bill o'reil o'reilly, sets. give me your thoughts on how effective david hogg has been? he's a kid, 17. he tweeted -- one tweet where he said who are your advertisers, laura ingraham. already something like 16 advertisers have pulled out. there they are, i mean a flight. >> he obviously has been effective. in terms of the overall national@advertising base, the advertisers represent 20% so far, her entire advertising base. very, very fast. by comparison it took days, weeks to reach this amount with glenn beck back then, and there were other organizations involved, color of change, that

were driving it. it took time, energy, to organize around it. the reason this is effective, why are they going after the advertisers? usually you go to the employer. you would say, hey, your employee did something bad using your resources, you should hold them to their standards. both the nra and fox news in particular this is why they hired laura ingraham. this is why they did it. why this is effective, he didn't bother appealing to fox news for decency and for accountability. he understood automatically that they were not going to do it, that this is their business model and the way to go about it is to go directly to the entities fueling and propelling them. >> this is not laura ingraham's first rodeo. she told lebron james and kevin durant to shut up and dribble. she's called the naacp a push organization for racist sentiments.

called planned apparent hood employee employees heinous. this is why they gave her a show. this is what fox wants. >> without question this is part of the trumpifcation, all ar tent pro trump voices identifying with the white grievance culture that trump taps into. yes, to your point, this is exactly the type of rhetoric fox news wants to see on the air. what's so interesting, fox news is basically caught between its audience and its advertisers because the millions of people who tune in to fox and never turn it off, want to hear that, but the brands that want to sell their products don't want to be associated with that. it's kind of a catch 22. fox makes a lot of their -- most of their money on the revenue stream from the cable subscriber fee. their business model, if they have to choose, is more reliant on the viewers than advertiseers.

>> they're basic cable. they get a percentage of everyone who signs up. the advertisers aren't the be all and end all. put back up the advertisers again. that is the point. what is the risk tolerance really of a hulu that wants a mainstream audience, the wayfair, johnson & johnson. these are mainstream companies, jenny craig, they're advertising to everyone, not just the base watching the new "roseanne" show or fox news. this model that is infuriating the right, over the moon upset about it, is this the model for activism to look at? >> i think david hogg has shown us how effective it can be. i hope laura ingraham's conveniently timed vacation is as long as her former colleague bill o'reilly's was. i hope it's permanent. aside from these smart advertisers who are fleeing, they're right on a moral account as well, i think twitter should

step in and not allow their platform to be used to cyber bully kids. laura ingraham is a parent. i cannot believe how she went after david hogg. he's a survivor of a school shooting. i think she should be embarrassed. i think twitter should step in and say this is against the pale. we're not going to allow our platform to be used to bully kids. >> he's a child. it's very difficult to go after the park lantd kids because they're children. ted nugent is a board member of the nra, not just an incidental actor. frank stallone -- people are probably saying who is frank stallone? he's the little brother of sylvester stallone, he tweeted also attacking david hogg, this little, expletive, is getting a little big for his britches. i'm sure someone from his age

group is dying to sucker punch this rich little expletive, watch him run home like the coward he is. he is the worst rep for today's youth headline grabbing punk. this guy is at least twice david hogg's age, b-list actor. by the way, michael flynn, the person who pleaded guilty, his son was on twitter attacking david hog. adults goings after kids. >> part of what's percolating in the message boards about kids is they're not kids, that they're actors. there's all this dehumanization, setting them up as these overwhelmingly powerful figures you must fight against. underneath all this, part of what is fueling and fermenting, laura ingraham gives a wink and a nod to what's percolating in this cesspool that inflames all the others even worse to go directly at them head on.

that's partly what's going on, a connection and synergy between the worst parts of these communities. >> i think what we've learned is even when one of these figures will be pushed off tv, they go back and get someone even more sort of closely aligned with theality right and more inflammatory. it's not as if fox news doesn't have a high tolerance for this? >> without question. this is the base, the style of programming the audience wants. what i find fascinating is really she -- the apology was only after the advertising fled. this was really not a sign of contrition, not a sign that she felt she was on the wrong moral side of this question. to me that doesn't indicate the styling of programming is going to change in any regard. >> thank you very much. up next, trump state tv gets creepier and creepier and creepier. ♪ ♪

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more alarming, some media out let's publish the same fake stories without checking facts first. >> the sharing of biased -- >> false news has become all too

common on social media. >> more alarming -- >> this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. >> this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. >> this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. >> those were all anchors at local sinclair broadcasting groups, the largest owner of tv stations in the country is the same country that's given former trump associates like boris epstein a platform to spew pro trump propaganda. up next, donald trump says today daca is dead as he walked into church. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide.

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the border. a lot of people are coming in because they want to take advantage of daca, and we're going to have to really see. they had a great chance, the democrats blew it. >> donald trump spoke about keeping out immigrants as he walked into church for easter sunday service. this is the president's follow up to his morning tweet declaring the daca deal is dead. quote, border patrol agents aren't allowed to properly do their job because of ridiculous laws like catch and release, getting more dangerous. caravans coming. republicans must go to nuclear option to pass tough laws now. no more daca deal, exclamation point.

joining us is msnbc contributor and jonathan green, a daca recipient. i'll go to you first for your reaction to donald trump announcing on the day that christians celebrate the risen savior who is himself a refugee, on that day announcing that daca is dead. your reaction? >> thank you, joy. two things, number one, i really don't want to hear anything about easter sunday coming from donald j. trump because i don't know a gospel he's following. the gospel of jesus christ, the one i know about, calls us to seek justice, walk humbly before our god. donald trump doesn't know anything about those things. the things he put out this morning are actually incorrect. federal immigration agencies are unfortunately quite good at breaking up and expelling our family members. just a couple days ago, 25

somali migrants were deported after joining a total of 113 africans who dared to speak up after enduring physical, sexual abuse, racial slurs, denied medical care and arbitrary placing in solitary confinement. what he's saying is actually a lie on easter sunday. >> it's pretty incredible. i guess easter wouldn't be easter without a little brown scare. right after his happy easter tweet, donald trump went right after immigrants. he's talking about more immigrants coming. what he may be referring to, buzzfeed had a story about a huge caravan of central americans headed for the u.s. and says no one in mexico dares to stop them. a little bit from that article, organized by a group of volunteers called people without borders, the caravan is intended to help migrants receively reach the united states, by passing not only authorities but gangs and cartels known to exploit

them. your reaction to the president of the united states using brown scare on easter? >> i don't think the american people are super surprised, joy. i think the biggest concern is he is conflating daca with a refugee problem that is clear. those are two separate issues. people are not eligible for daca for anyone who came after 2007. trump made this an issue, the 800,000 had daca protection. what is happening right now of this caravan of people coming from honduras through central america is basically the result of increased gang violence. these are individuals that are not traditional immigrants. they are seeking refugee as sigh lull. it's something that is part of our laws that actually allow for asylum seekers to come to our borders. once they reach our borders, there's a process, not everyone

will receive asylum, but the fact that the president is politicizing something that is so painful on easter sunday, the day jesus rose, basically gave renewal and lope to the world through christianity, for those who believe, this is the antithesis of that. it would be a great moment for the evangelical community to rise against this president and say this is not christian, it is not godly. >> many ironies here. donald trump also tweeting this morning, these big flows of people are trying to take advantage of daca. another factually incorrect statement by the person who is the head of the executive branch and thus should be able to find out from his employees the facts about daca. these people coming in as refugees are not eligible for daca. >> what happened between 8:30 and two hours later? did donald trump see there wasn't enough good candy in his easter basket for this big child running everything from the

white house. not only does he not have the facts, but as someone who mass been through the u.s. immigration system, there is nothing about the u.s. immigration system which is easy or lacking. it's a very, very thorough system. not only is it sad he's going after these children, these daca kids on easter sunday. he clearly is, once again, uninformed about what he's talking about. >> joy, i think part of the concern, too, where -- it seems very clear where the president is getting a lot of his media, incendiary steve bannon, breitbart media where they're encouraging people to go to the border and use this as a declaration of war. that's incredibly dangerous. the president should be using this opportunity to provide asylum, explain what is happening south of the border. instead he's flaming the flames and it could be a very dangerous situation. >> that's where i want to go

with you, jonathan. there's a sense that donald trump is interacting with his most extreme supporters at all times and promoting an idea that immigrants are dangerous, that they're trying to take and take advantage of. as a daca recipient yourself, are you concerned for the safety of yourself and other daca recipients and immigrants in this climate? >> absolutely, joy. as a daca recipient, it's very clear to me that donald trump does not care about our community, that donald trump has no interest or will or intention to fix the crisis he created last fall when he chose to unlawfully end the daca program. i'm not buying this charade of wanting to fix it and being a good negotiator. none of that is true. what is not true is he is at the same time utilizing his agencies and his executive power to deport and detain our communities when it's proven already at the national level

that particularly black people in particular are feeling the burn of being at the crossroads of his administration while also at the same time he's utilizing his twitter account to try to convince the american people that he's a good guy. i'm not buying and not appreciative of his lies today on easter sunday. >> there is a sense that this kind of rhetoric is potentially dangerous. you're creating maximum vulnerability and wanting immigrants to feel vulnerable between the i.c.e. raids, going after sanctuary cities. you have sheriffs in california releasing information when inmates are getting out to make it easier for i.c.e. to get them. >> i don't understand why he keeps doing this. the atmosphere and the environment for immigrants and refugees has already been so terrible since he stepped into office, and even before he stepped into office because of all the anti immigrant and

refugee rhetoric he used in his campaign. we've been reading, joy, countless reports, families being torn apart, the i.c.e. raids, detaining people, separating them from their families. u.s. him grags policy has been rooted in keeping families together. we know the environment is getting so cruel. i don't know why donald trump feels like he has to make this even more intense and more anti immigrant and anti refugee. >> unfortunately we find those trends, joy, is when he basically finds himself backed into a hole. the stormy daniels report is not helping him. he's feeling vulnerable, and what he does is he lashes out. the people that contribute so much that have the power -- who have very little power to thuli control their environments. it's usually when the president feels he's losing, the mueller

investigation is closing in, the base may be questioning his leadership. e goes after the people most vulnerable that contribute so much to this company. >> on easter sunday. last word to you, jonathan. >> there is only one thing that seems to be constant in this administration, and that is donald j. trump's commitment to implementing a racist agenda. it is a desire to wipe out and take out as many black and brown communities through deportation, incarceration, whatever. i think we have to be able to see his tweets and his reactions today. it's cooler his rhetoric is actually implementing leading policy and administrative procedure. we have to be clear about that. >> it's a very, very difficult time and day. i want to wish you guys a happy easter and just a blessed day. thank you all very much.

i appreciate your time. up next, where we stand as a nation r50 years after the assassination of martin luther king, junior. empowering. downright exhilarating. see for yourself why chevrolet is the most awarded and fastest growing brand, the last four years overall. switch into a new chevy now, with 20% below msrp on these select 2018 models. or, 0% financing for 72 months on 2018 tahoe and suburban lt models. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. (vo)just one touch.ith with fancy feast creamy delights, she can have just the right touch of real milk. easily digestible, it makes her favorite entrées even more delightful. fancy feast creamy delights. love is in the details.

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passive resistance. >> martin luther king was a man of huge thoughtfulness about the strategy that he asked those who followed he asked those who follow him to use. that strategy was in the face of silence, you have a moral high ground if you did not return violence with violence. >> this week marks the 50th anniversary of dr. martin luther king, jr., stephon clark, fernando castille the protests mirror the protests of the civil rights rae led by king and sparked by similar merciless killings. >> reporter: before the world ever heard of ferlando castille or any black man that awoke the

consciousness of the nation, there was thirteen 14-year-old emmet till and his grieving mother mamie. >> live streaming your loved one's death is a 20th first century version of what emmet till's mother did. she live streamed her son's death. >> you can see more, mlk the movement and the media tonight. joining me is a host of make it plain. happy easter, first of all to you. thank you for being here. >> happy easter. >> thank you for having me. >> indeed. we're in the midst of all of these discussions the more we are learning about the alton sterling killing, the stephon clark killing, where he shot eight times, at least seven times in the back. when you think a about where we are still in issues of police brutality, et set remarks is it

depressing to think about the fact that 50 years ago we lost dr. king to obviously gun violence. we seem to have gone backwards in a lot of ways in the cycle. >> this certainly is. it's even somewhat mournful to be here in memphis. his cavalry. as a matter of fact, i see really a direct parallel because law enforcement actually had at least an indirect role in dr. king's death, while the police did not kill him, they withdrew his security detail the night before he was assassinated. he was harassed by the top law enforcement official in the country, j. edgar hoover for many, many years. i'll never forget the commercial appeal. many did an expose where they talked about how he and his family has been under under

surveillance for many, many years by u.s. intelligence. he died during this same easter season here 50 years ago. that's why we are all here. so today we think about two people, two men who would amaze people with their preaching before theably of 16, two men who fought for on behalf of the press people who men who smoak spoke ability wars and the rumors of war, two men persec e persecuted by the authorities, two men who predicted their own deaths and were executed before the age of 40, jesus christ, himself, and dr. king. it's important that we celebrate the life of jesus and his resurrections and the tomb being empty, we got to declare dr. king's tomb empty, too, his resurrection and spirit and what we do as organizers, activists and journalists even, to

continue the fight that he started. >> ironically, you know, there is a death of a teenager when dr. king and the sanitation workers and larry pane and a teenager allegedly looking at people breaking windows during that march. a lot of irony here. i want to play dr. king's only grandchild, nine-years-old, this was yolanda, speaking at the march for our lives rally last weeken weekend. >> my grandfather of martin luther king and core ret is that scott king my grandfather had a dream that his four little

children will not be judged by the color of his skin but the content of their character. i have a dream that enough is enough. so what a mantle that little girl has on her shoulder. she is the only grandchild of dr. king. >> it is a mantle, but knowing her, she's precious, i'm very proud-her and her parents, martin and andrea. i don't think she is intimidated by it all. i think she will be something 50 years ago probably the rate in america is 13%. it's 12.7% today. that's a battle the bestill need fight this why year alone, the rate is four times what it is for whites around the country for every dollar of wealth whites have, african-americans only have a dime. so there is a lot more than we need to stand up for and as i said, we need to resurrect the

memory of dr. king, porte the poor people's campaign, register to vote and continue to keep his memory alive. >> yes, indeed, thank you so much, mark thompson, safe travels there. more after the break. diabetes puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. he told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar, but for people with type 2 diabetes treating their cardiovascular disease, victoza® is also approved to lower the risk of major cv events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. and while not for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. (announcer) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients.

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easter bonnet, but i got this bunny. >> it's all good. don't stop by the studio here in this desk. i'm going to reach out and grab it. i feel like some. happy, happy east tore you, my friend, i'm alex whitt here in new york world headquarters. it's just about high noon here in the west. done with the ka? president trump attacking democrats on immigration and using scary claims to demand the border wall. resigned or removed? dualing stories on the departure of the newly ousted va secretary. >> i would not resign, because i'm committed to making sure this job was seen through to the very end. >> so you were fired? >> i did not resign. >> okay. >> plus details on the final phone call between shulkin and trump and words of caution from charles barclay the former basketball star demanding action and acun