tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. with stephanie then again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. today's the day when you have to decide if you believe in coincidences. donald trump woke. up to news today that special counsel bob mueller was explicitly authorized by his appointees of the justice department to investigate whether the president's former campaign chairman illegally coordinated with russia. then in twin appearances with the leaders of three baltic states, donald trump wanted to make one thing abundantly clear when it comes to russia, no one has been tougher than donald trump. and, yes, he referred to himself in the third person. take a look. >> getting along with russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. now, maybe we will, and maybe we won't. and probably nobody's been tougher to russia than donald trump. nobody's been tougher on russia

than i have, and you can -- and i know you're nodding yes because everyone agrees when they -- we've been very tough on russia, frankly, but i will say that if we got along with russia, that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. so i think i could have a very good relationship with russia. and with president putin. and if i did, that would be a great thing and there's also a great possibility that that won't happen. who knows. nobody has been tougher on russia, but getting along with russia would be a good thing, not a bad thing. and just about everybody agrees to that except very stupid people. >> now i'm not sure who the very stupid people are, but based on a recent nbc news poll, a majority of americans believe that russia will meddle in the 2018 elections and wonder why you, mr. president, remain unconvinced. maybe this has something to do with it. for the first time we're lea learning deputy attorney general rob rosenstein, a trump

appointee, approved lines of investigation for special counsel bob mueller in august 2017. rosenstein improved an investigation into whether paul manafort, quote, committed a crime or crimes by colluding with russian government officials. and of manafort's work as an international political consultant in ukraine before joining trump's campaign. the other big development, the first sentencing in the mueller investigation took place earlier today. from the nbc report, "a london-based lawyer who add many hitt admitted to special counsel robert mueller's team in november 2017 was ordered tuesday to serve 30 days in prison. the first sentence imposed since mueller was appointed nearly a year ago. alex van de zwaan, 33, had pleaded guilty in february to making false statements when he was interviewed last fall about his phone calls and e-mails with a former trump campaign aide, richard gates."

gates also pleaded guilty and is cooperating with the mueller investigation. to help us sift through this big day of news, some of our favorite friends and reporters, from the "washington post" white house reporter ashley parker. with us at the table, paul butler, former federal prosecutor, now a georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst. zer lean thn zerlena maxwell, former clinton campaign adviser, now with sirius xm. charlie sykes. and jonathan lemire, white house reporter for the associated press. every one of you an msnbc contributor. thank god for us. let me start with you on these two big sort of chunks of what is now public, but obviously was known and perhaps something you assumed for a long time. bob mueller is not freelancing. he was given direction from deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and we know a little bit more about the scope of that investigation, but it specifically included getting to the bottom of whether or not paul manafort colluded with russia. >> yeah. so manafort's defense has been to attack the special counsel, mueller. his defense has been, you're

indicting me for a real estate transactions in brooklyn, dude, i thought you were supposed to be focused on russian collusion. what mueller responded is that's exactly what i'm focused on and your real estate transactions and your dealings in the ukraine, they're all about collusion, they're all about obstruction, and he has his footnote six, mueller does, we law professor love footnotes, footnote six says it's also about obstruction of justice and intents to impede the investigation. so not exactly an x mark on president trump and anybody else who may be trying to impede the investigation, but a warning shot, you better be telling the truth, you better not be trying to impede or obstruct or i'm coming for you. >> okay. let me -- i don't revel in this, but i do like to debunk lies that are told from the white house briefing room. i want to read you something that sarah huckabee sanders said. i want you to tell me if there's any veracity to it, okay? so when mueller was indicted, or

mueller, i'm sorry, when mueller indicted -- or charged -- indict, is that the same thing? paul manafort? >> yes. >> sarah huckabee sanders said october 30th "today's announcement has nothing to do with the president, nothing to do with the president's campaign or his campaign activity." now we don't know about the first, but it's possible that m manafort is being investigated specifically for actions taken during the president's campaign or his campaign activity, isn't it? >> yes. so mueller's charge is to, number one, investigate allegations of collusion between russia and the trump campaign. number two, any other -- any other leads that come out of that first investigation, he's allowed to do that as well. >> crimes that he uncovers -- >> exactly. so ken starr, remember, started out with this failed real estate transaction, whitewater, he ended up focusing on perjury. so that's how these

investigations always kind of flow and that's what's happened here. what mueller -- what mueller's emphasizing is it's, again, not just about real estate, manafort's real estate dealings, that they are related, they're means to an end and the end remains collusion. >> and the corruption that may be uncovered in mueller's, what was known in republican circles as a sort of dirty book of business, that that is certainly within the purview because he was charged with investigating all of manafort's potential corruption as it pertains s russia. >> thank god for rod rosenstein. he understands how these investigations work. he knows that mueller has to have all of the investigative tools at his disposal. he's keeping his eye on the ball. got to keep saying the ball is collusion, but all of these are means to an end. this is exactly how prosecutors make cases. >> let me get you on the second big development in the mueller investigation, the first individual who pleaded guilty was sentenced today. talk about that. >> so here, this guy is

tangental, again, this is mueller sending a message, you better tell the truth when we talk to you because it doesn't matter how important your evidence is, you have to be on the up and up or we're coming for you. this is a young lawyer. his wife is pregnant. she's based in the uk. his sentencing today, he's like, judge, give me a break. now we have a new element in those cases, the judge, because in addition to mueller, you know who else doesn't like people lying? judges. >> judges. >> so this judge said, mueller actually didn't even recommend jail time. they were silent on the that. >> is is that that to send a sid mueller's team stay silent, if you cooperate with us -- >> mueller is a reasonable guy. he's not throwing the book at everybody just to do that. he's not a hardcore prosecutor unless he thinks you really did something wrong. just the judge who really read this guy the riot act, there's a fine $20,000, the judge said you

don't just get to write a check and leave, you're going to jail. six months. again, not throwing the book at him, but a very clear message. >> okay. ashley parker, i want to read you something, because van der zwaan was tansgental. this from our friend, he writes "each mueller indictment and lead, mr. van der zwaan, father-in-law is the russian oligarch, lied to investigators about huis conversations with m. gates, trump deputy campaign manager and person "a" whom the fbi addressed as a russian intelligent agent and many believed to be who our friend called k.k. mr. gates and mr. manafort, a trump campaign manager. i know that manafort, there's a script for folks in the white house, in the west wing, about

manabout manafort, oh, old news, blame his recruitment into the ca campaign on the kids. gates had a lot more relationships and a lot more current. how does the gates news land inside the west wing? >> well, gates is someone who, as you point out, he's sort of a consummate until recently, survival. he was sort of quietly there all along the way. he was brought in as manafort's deputy. even when manafort was pushed out, he stayed through the transition, played a role in the transition, he was the liaison to the rnc then began working for tom barrack, one of the president's close friends. he was basically in the fold, in that white house, in the administration, knowing the players, knowing what was going on, having visibility into things that, you know, it depends what you believe but the white house might not want him having viz blgt into then sharing with mueller. right up until he was indicted. so anything involved with gates

is in some ways more -- also i have to say sort of saying manafort is old news does underplay his role in that very critical period of time. but gates was someone who was there for a lot more, saw a lot more, so -- and is now cooperating on top of that. anything involving him obviously sort of raises concerns within the white house. >> and i didn't mean to -- you're right, i didn't mean to diminish manafort's role, he was the president's campaign chairman and his relationship with the president goes back even further. speak to, and go ahead and address sort of the unsuccessful effort there to distance themselves from paul manafort when it's abundantly clear based on the filing and rosenstein's mission statement for bob mueller that investigating manafort's ties to russia is specifically one of the places where they're looking at and looking for collusion with russia. >> that's exactly right. you'll see, what sarah said, what you read before, there was, i have to say, a genuine sense of relief early on when they found out the charges against m manafort, that they did seem to

have nothing obvious to do with the campaign. they were about things, money laundering and conspiracy that had happened before he was on the campaign. that said, the way mueller is going about this probe and sort of the permission he's been given by the justice department is to look at things that may seem tansgental but are related. deeply relevant when you're looking at if this man, paul manafort, campaign manager for a period of time, did have the relationships to potentially help collude during the campaign. so i think it is all intertwined in a way that some of those early statements didn't quite accurately capture. >> imagine that, jonathan lemire. white house statement that didn't accurately capture the facts. >> let's remember sean spicer from the podium basically downplayed paul manafort as some guy who worked for the campaign. >> the coffee guy. >> right. the coffee guy. who was someone who ran the campaign for months. and it's a good point about

gates who is also someone who stuck around. he was -- we reporters in the west wing would see him in the white house the first couple month of the administration. >> until the first charge. >> that's right. he also is someone who was working for a pro-trump outside group. he is someone who lived at the trump hotel. down pennsylvania avenue. just a few blocks from the white house. he was still very much in that orbit. and on the van derzwaan point, there's another message that's sort of seventnt, even though t jail time is not extensive, it is extensive. someone is going to prison. the president of the united states has called this whole thing a witch hunt. someone is now going to prison, that undermines a lot of the witch hunt arguments. >> for lying about their conversation with mr. gates who was in the president's orbit until the day he was indicted. the president's hot war against the fbi, the doj, seems to have nothing to do with an investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail scandal that his own attorney general, jeff sessions, testified before congress when asked by jim

jordan if he would appoint a second special counsel. he said the facts aren't there. everything to do with what you just said, people are going to jail for lying for and about the president's associates. >> yeah. and the news seems to be tightening around this inner circle. the president's penchant for surrounding himself with misfit toys and creating a climate of dishonesty is coming back to haunt him. i don't want to get too far out over our ski here. i'm really fascinating thinking about what history of this period is going to look back on. you know, when we finally figure out all the piece of this puzzle, all of the denials, you know, all of the attempts to cover this up, and to an instruct obstruct it, how that will look. the comments from the white house, denial from the various sycophants in the media, the obstruction by house republicans in all of this. because what we're getting a sense, this is a it is getting very, very close to this campaign. imagine reading when we know everything, when we know all of

the details, imagine what people were saying, how that is going to look sometime in the -- again, i know i'm getting ahead of things. >> let's not get ahead of it. they started by telling us -- i could watch the sound every day. paul manafort telling george stephanopoulos, has the campaign had contacts with russia? ha, ha, ha. i was doing my own round of morning live shots when he did that and that week where he disparaged melania. karma is a you know what. the lies told about contacts with russians started during the campaign, as you're well aware. >> yep. >> and what has turned out to be true is, you know, more contacts than, you know, high school students' social network -- >> you need a spreadsheet at this point. >> and they span through the campaign, through the family, and now through white house staff. >> and i think that the word you're going to be hearing more and more often is we've talked about collusion a lot, but the word that mueller's investigators have been -- their indictments have been using is conspiracy, conspiracy against the united states.

and when you think about the nature of this conspiracy, the size of the conspiracy, and also the stakes of the conspiracy, unlike a lot of scandals we've had, this actually will matter if, in fact, this happened. if this was true that, in fact, you had a conspiracy to undermine and interfere in the american democratic process that might have compromised the president of the united states. i mean, this is stuff out of "homeland," this is stuff out of can t the "americans." we're living this in realtime. >> i did live it in realtime, it's interesting to think back to what we were saying, robby mook during the campaign at the convention says to jake tapper, russia is responsible -- we're learning from experts that russia is responsible for hacking the dnc and podesta and leaking out e-mails, strategically on the first day of the convention. that was not a coincidence. it was also not a coincidence when podesta's e-mails came out the night of the "access hollywo hollywood" tape, i think in retrospect a lot of the facts are going to look different. the more we learn about the scope of the international

dealings that all of these people had in terms of their financial dealings and business interests, coupled with the fact that manafort shows up at the campaign and says, i'm here to work for free, who are you working for? if you're working for free. >> nothing's for free. >> i think now we're learning it looks more and more like a criminal enterprise that was ongoing and the election was a piece of that, but not the full scope of what was going on here. >> so take us back into how mueller's looking at this. obviously, collusion isn't a crime, no one's going to be charged with collusion, but this week there's been some legal commentary about bribery, potentially, the change in the republican platform to be more pro-russia, they could be investigating whether people were bribed to do so. they're looking at false statements, just about everybody either forgot or lied about their meetings with russians. and what other crimes could be on the table for prosecutors? >> so we learned about this

pleading this week, this authorization from rosenstein to investigate broadly manafort, expansion of lines of investigation. again, we just know about it because mueller had to tell the court in response to a pleading. we should well assume that there are many many other lines of investigation that we don't know about, that could include many other players. and so what mueller is doing is, again, what prosecutors always do, prosecution, you start at the bottom, you work your way up to the top. again, mueller's bottom is really high when he started with people like manafort. the president's campaign director and robert gates, the former national security director, but he's working his way up to the top. it's pretty clear now that president trump is a subject of the investigation. he's not a target. so we're a long way away from an indictment of him, but, again, mueller is looking at him. >> four senior former justice department officials who all happen to be republicans have

said when i've asked if he's a subject of the investigation, they have all said, of course, he is. the only question is whether or not he's a target. whether or not he's been informed of the fact that he's a subject. they also posit that it's possible that that's one of the reasons that the relationship with dowd may have broken up. what is the significance of that? of being a subject of the investigation. >> a subject is the next step before one is formally indicted. now, to be fair, most subjects don't end up getting indictment, but it makes a difference with regard to things like whether you go in and talk to the prosecutor. if you're a target, you absolutely don't do that. you take the fifth because you know you won't be indicted. >> and you couldn't share a lawyer with someone like mark curallo who may be a witness, offered intimidating information about the president. >> if you're part of an investigation by the grand jury and 16 of the best prosecutors in the country and the fbi which remains the world's preeminent

law enforcement agency, you need a darn good lawyer. >> he doesn't have that. >> he doesn't -- >> he's going -- >> he has two trump cards. >> we're going to put -- >> he can fire the investigator or come up with those pardons, and i think, may be unconventional opinion, the closer it gets, the more likely this guy who is unchained might do one of those two things. >> there's always legalzoom.com. come on, don't be mistahysteric when we come back, is russia a friend or a foe? not exactly a trick question, but donald trump didn't answer the way you'd expect, or maybe he did. also ahead, troops to the border. that's donald trump's latest immigration solution on a topic that's fueled three straight days of twitter rage from the president. and fair game? the quwife of fired deputy fbi director andrew mccabe speaks out and gets savage by fox news. we'll bring you that story. i'm on the move all day long.

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okay. >> how do you see vladimir putin? is he a friend or a foe? >> we'll find out. i'll let you know. i mean, it will be a time when i'll let you know. you're going to find out very quickly. >> you know who figured it out already, mr. president? the intelligence community when they unanimously it concluded that russia meddled in our 2016 elections. bob mueller when he indicted 13 russians for their role in the above-mentioned meddling. and all of our nato allies who took the lead when russia was accused of poisoning a former russian spy and his daughter living in the uk. despite his tough talk today, the president invited vladimir putin to the white house. vladimir putin, of course, has not been to the white house in 13 years. joining us now, john, former

senior cia officer who ran the agency's worldwide russia operations. and schmidt is back at the table. john, let me start with you and your thought on the words tumbling out of the president's mouth at almost breakneck speed about really a word salad on all sides of the russia question. no one's going to be tougher, are they a friend, are they a foe, maybe they will, maybe we won't. just complete nonsensical nonsense about the question of russia, at the same time that we're learning that bob mueller's charge was specifically to investigate whether his former campaign manager had colluded with russia. >> well, i think it's pretty clear to most of us, maybe not president trump, that putin is a foe. he attacked our election. it's political warfare, psychological warfare against us. he's attacked our allies. he's done low-scale wars in ukraine. he's working against us in afghanistan with the taliban. he's supporting chemical weapons use in syria. and, you know, president trump

talks about, you know, we're going to need them as a friend, we need them for help. listen, they had 18 years to help us on counterterrorism and they've done nothing. i don't really understand what he thinks he's going to get from mr. putin. i tell you, mr. putin knows who's an enemy and who's not. he considers the united states his main enemy. >> all right. we are going to pick this conversation up in a second but we're following breaking news in california where police have confirmed an active shooting at the youtube headquarters in san bruno, california. nbc's joe fryer joins us now. joe, what do you understand to be the situation at this hour? >> nicolle, still not much is confirmed at this point. we know authorities have confirmed there was a call for an act if shooter at this time. anything beyond that has not been confirmed. some employees have taken to social media to talk about the fact that they've either heard running or they've heard gunshots within the building. and then people running after that. police in -- this is in san bruno, where youtube employee place is located in san bruno. it's south of san francisco. it's maybe about four miles or

so away from sfo, san francisco international airport. san bruno police put out a note saying that there is police activity, they're urging people to stay away from that area. the sheriff's department has confirmed they're responding to calls of an active shooter. clearly, a lot is going on right now, but as far as what's happening inside, we don't have detailed confirmed information about that at this point. nicolle? >> i no e we're not going to report anything until we've been able to corroborate it. this is the heart of stiilicon valley, one of the main players in the worldwide social media world. are there accounts that exist on social media that we simply can't talk about yet because they're not confirmed? >> right. at this point, nothing valely c confirmed by employees. we've seen a few employees who say they're inside the building, have come out. one basically saying they heard a lot of running. at first thought it was an earthquake because there was rumbling from the people running. another person says they did hear gunshots and ever since then, they've been barricaded

inside their workplace waiting for the all-clear. we have seen some images from people who are outside of youtube, the businesses, buildings surrounding it, saying they, too, are on lockdown as a precaution. we have seen at least one image, video coming from people, some people coming out of the youtube building with their hands up. it's a sight we've seen many times over the last few years especially at schools. again, none of that is officially confirmed right now. obviously there's a lot of police activity happening around this building. it's on cherry street in san bru bruno. just south of san francisco. nicolle? >> near the heart of silicon valley. please jump right back on our air with any new details you learn. we'll keep on open line with you and to you. please jump right back on with any updates. obviously we hope for everyone's safety. sadly, this is america in 2018. thank you so much. we were just getting started in a conversation about donald trump's rather bizarre day of utterances on the topic of russia. let me pick that up with you, steve schmidt. first of all, that's close to a

place where you and i both called home. >> sure was. >> california. >> it's hard to swerve back to the day's political news. and you and i spent a lot of air on the air together after parkland. let me just get your thoughts to the possibility that there's a -- another shooting at a workplace near silicon valley? >> i think that one of the features of american life is the certainty to know that at any moment on any day, anywhere in america, this can happen. and i don't think i'm the only person out there who when you see that breaking news kyron, shooter, to know another tragedy is unfolding. the sense of helplessness. >> the sick feeling that they said we've got some breaking news and my first thought was is it a shooting or a natural disaster? >> how many, is it a school, is it kids, little kids? and it will happen again. and it will happen many times more over the course of 2018.

>> and, you know, the white house, i think, made a greater effort than normal to respond not on a substantive level because they didn't do anything, but optically, at least, by inviting survivors of newtown and parkland to the white house to listen, but the story that gets replayed over and over again is nothing ever changes. >> the location changes. the story's the same. the white house didn't do anything substantively. yes, they did make an effort to have some of the victims into the white house. they met with the president. you know, we -- the debate has fallen down on the same lines as it always does. the battle lines have been drawn. you know, it is still the idea of democrats pushing largely for gun control measures while a lot of republicans, largely, saying no, and nothing has really changed and what has happened since is there's been such talk that parkland was going to change things. that there was energy behind the movement now. we saw these incredibly sympathetic young victims out there pushing forward their stories and what they saw and calling for change and, yes,

there's momentum, there's an inspiring march in washington and other places, but at least so far, that momentum has not turned into actual legislative results. and, you know, here we are while that is still going on, another shooting has happened. and as you just said, it's probably a matter of days before the next shooting happens. >> and this one, charlie, in a state that probably has among the more aggressive gun laws that you can have in a country that celebrates and cherishes the second amendment. proving if nothing else that it really can happen anywhere. >> yeah, it can. of course, we can't get too far ahead because we don't actually know all the facts here, but, you know, once again, it is this paralysis we have over this issue and, you know, sometimes i'm afraid of becoming too cynical because we go through the same kabuki dance all the time, we're jut rage outraged. have to do something about it. nothing happens. you point out this big moving march, very compelling figures,

watch how dumbed down our discussion has become. it's degenerated to twitt eter k and forth, attacks on teenagers, hosts like laura ingraham mocking the kids. again, it seems like this is our pattern, we not only pull back into our tribal corners inevitably, but the entire nature of the debate tends to be degraded so quickly in the face of this tragedy which steve's absolutely right, you just know it's going to happen again and we're going to go through the same process again. >> and you know, it felt, zerlena, for a little while, and i'm going to -- i'm going to raise charlie sykes' cynicism with optimism -- >> please. >> -- that the parkland high school students will be the variable here, that as steve schmidt said, they're not afraid of laura ingraham, they're not afraid of the nra. they've been hunted. >> right. >> at the place where they should have felt the most safe after their own homes, at their school. and something did happen.

laura ingraham's on a prescheduled vacation, but she did come out and apologize after doing -- it's hard to even say it -- after taunting a high school student on twitter about his college admissions. do you think we've become numb? we've got these images up, a map of where the latest ongoing shooting has taken place in america. and we're looking at a scene, we don't know if there are injuries, we don't know if someone who just got up this morning, said good-bye to their spouse and kids, if someone's been hurt. we don't know how lives have been impacted, but have we become numb to these aerial images of a location of a shooting and a spot on the map where the latest one goes down? >> i think we as a public have become numb but i think the parkland kids are going to be the difference. here's why. they've connected these tragedies with the fact that if you vote these folks out of office, you can make the changes that are necessary. they've connected that. they're not waiting for us to tell them what to do. they know that someone's turning 18 every single day.

already registered to vote ahead of -- way ahead of the midterm elections. these folks are organizing and the other thing about this generation that i think the older generations need to understand is they're intersectional. they understand that gun violence is in the inner cities as well as in the workplaces, and also in school shootings. they have connected all of these things together and understand that the way to change the law is to change the people who make the laws. and that, i think, is the powerful difference that these kids are making in this country and in this conversation and we don't go through the cycle because they've cut the cycle off by basically directing everyone toward the ballot box. >> joining us now, jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent in charge, former hostage negotiator, now an msnbc contributor who i'm sure sad for him and sad for us is spending a lot more time with us than maybe he wants to. so, again, you and i meet while an ongoing active shooter situation takes place in san bruno, california. the heart of silicon valley.

we see a familiar sight of people exiting their workplace. it's the youtube headquarters there in san bruno. about four miles south of san francisco, with their hands above their head to make clear to law enforcement that they represent no risk to anyone. take us inside what law enforcement is doing right now. >> yeah, the critical thing here, nicolle, is to always locate the shooter or shooters. they've got to locate him. they've got to isolate him. they've got to evacuate the people and then they have to eliminate the threat. so that's the way the commanders see it. so when they're getting there, it's really critical that people that are on the ground in the youtube headquarters, you know, if they're on their media, if they know where the shooter is, in the hallway, in an office, that they can relay that to 911 because what's critical for the on-scene commanders is is to locate that shooter. once they do that, they can isolate then evacuate and eliminate the threat. and it's a difficult task, as

you can understand, these things are -- you got large buildings and lot of people moving around. and those evacuations we see right now, nicolle, are probably, you know, from early areas that the they know are safe. so in other words, when officers move in, when patrol moves in, with rifles, say, when they move in, they can kind of get between an area if they know that area behind them is safe, they can evacuate that area and move through trying to locate the shooter. >> jim, what would law enforcement want anyone who was inside to do vis-a-vis social media? would they want them to be tweeting and telling people what's going on? or would they want them to be communicating that on a telephone line, on a hard line, on a cell phone, directly to law enforcement so that they don't inform what may be still an active shooter as to what they know? >> right. well, of course, law enforcement wants the information and that's who you want to communicate with. but you communicate with who you can quietly, if you're hidden in

a room or barricaded in an office, you know, you want to keep your voice down, you want to text if you can, you want to make sure your light's not seen. and you don't want to open that door even if somebody says they're police. you have to verify that. you have to double check. you can call 911 and verify. you can ask for an i.d. under the door. you can listen for their radios and multiple officers don't just fall for anybody saying they're the police. stay barricaded. there's plenty of time. these things get over quickly if you stay safe. but you have a great point, nicolle, i'm telling you, the commander in these volatile situations, you need specific information. anybody that can get that to you through your friends, relatives on the outside, directly to the police, you really need that information. >> and we understand that the police are still describing this as an active shooter situation. does that make clear to you, jim, that this is someone who has not been apprehended, who still very much presents a risk to anyone on that youtube

campus? >> yes. i mean, if he's not been -- they've not said it's safe, then they're actively either trying to locate him or they have him located and they're trying to isolate him. so it's still a very active when commanders are saying it's active. once they have him, if they can get him isolated by himself, they could change the isstatus. >> so google owns youtube put out a statement saying regarding the youtube situation, we are coordinating with authorities and we'll provide official information here from google and youtube as it becomes available. steve schmidt, i always go back to the horror of 9/11 and the complete reliance, you know, we're in our tribes, we're in our corners most of our lives. i think we just heard some gunshots. should we listen to that for a second, control room? not gunshots? okay. they'll tell us if there's something we need to dip in and listen to. but you think about sort of the

way we live most of our lives having our political debates, but when you look at something like this, we're able to report now that the fbi has been called and people's lives will literally depend on the fbi and law enforcement being allowed to do their jobs. they will most likely if they do what they do day in and day out make people safer there in san bruno where there's an active shooter situation. can you sort of put in context the political reality of sort of watching a president who attacks the justice department and fbi on a near daily basis on his twitter feed? >> yeah, look, we're having this discussion about change and i think this culture of instant gratification applies to our politics. that, well, the kids had a rally and tens of thousands of people marched and people walked out of schools and now this problem is going to be fixed. i think to zerlena's point that democracy, and i think the american people to a large degree are alienated from the hard work of citizenship.

it requires participation. it requires commitment. it requires being informed. if you go back to the 19th century when we were having a debate in this country about whether we should have mandatory public education, the purpose for mandatory public education was to teach good citizens. create good citizens. and so politicians who say, for example, we can't talk about this moment of connection between insane or evil person and high-capacity automatic or semiautomatic weapon. it's just stupid. and when people get voted out of office and on the supply and demand curve, that balance changes, you'll see some changes to, you know, to the gun laws. and i think the other thing, too, is that there's always been places that are profoundly violent in the country. inner city baltimore, chicago, but i think middle-class white people as a general proposition were insulated from it. i think back to when i was a little kid, the summer of sam.

the son of sam. growing up in north jersey, we weren't allowed to go into the front yard after dark. it's silly thinking back on it but the violence was remote. and now it's everywhere. everywhere. there's no place. not a high school, not a grammar school, not youtube, not silicon valley, not new tun, connecticut. >> a hospital. >> it is everywhere. and this fundamentally is a political question. i think it's much bigger than gun control legislation or mental health legislation. it is profoundly about what type of country do we want to live in? >> yeah. let me -- >> every day -- >> -- interrupt everyone and bring back in nbc's joe fryer who's watching this with us. joe, are you picking up any new information? >> few tidbits here, nicolle. our affiliate kntv in the bay area does confirm with san francisco general hospital that they are receiving patients from san bruno. at this point, though, we don't know how many patients that might be if they've already arrived or if those patients are

going to be en route. we've also got a statement that has been released from google which, of course, owns youtube saying regarding the youtube situation, we're coordinating with authorities and will provide official information here from google and youtube as it becomes available. "san bruno police have taken to social media confirming we're responding to an active shooter. they're asking people to stay away from that area at this time. the ariel video we've seen coming from youtube headquarters has seen people walking out of the building being escorted out with hands up and a lot of s.w.a.t. team activity happening around the building there. it's not clear exactly what happened, did this start just outside of the building, inside the building? and we also don't know the current situation, how many people, if anyone, were shot and what's the latest situation with the person who went in there with a gun. nicolle? is. >> thank you. jim cavanaugh, let me come back to you just on the topic of workplace violence. sadly, it is a place where

people with grievances, people with gripes, people simply looking for sitting targets will target. any sort of insights into what kind of person targets a workplace? >> well, the shooters that target workplaces are, you know, the same shooters that target churches and schools. they sometimes have mental issues. secret service just did a study on 28 or 29 shooters and i think 64% were suffering from some mental episode. but not all people have a mental episode. we have a lot of people seeking revenge, nicolle. people who choke on an empty grudge. people who just want retribution. they're mad at somebody. a company, their employer, significant other in a domestic situation where they take the lives of everyone. certainly just the boss who fired them. you know, we don't have any coping skills in h america. the first time we run into a bump in the road, you know, we just load up the guns and the

ba bandaleros and kill everybody. steve schmitt is exactly right. he's talking wisdom as i think he always does. i'm from tennessee, and, you know, we have great leaders like howard baker here in the senate. and great, great leaders who would do the things that can help the country. we need those leaders to step up. because this has to be changed on many fronts. gun control is one, but there's many other thinks, security, you know, education, coping skills, mental health issues. it's just when, you know, special interest groups try to carve at one thing you can't touch, can't touch this, you can't touch that. anybody who's giving you that answer is giving you the wrong answer because you have to fight the war on all fronts and you have to have strides on all fronts to make america safer. and we can do it. we just got to have the political will. >> let me bring into the conversation our colleague and recode executive editor kara swisher who joins us now by phone. you're very familiar with silicon valley. how secure is the campus like

youtube's campus here in san bruno that we're looking at a picture, i don't know if you can see what we see, but we're looking at what i presume to be evacuated employees of youtube. we just reported -- >> listen, nicolle, i'm texting with people, apparently the shooter was shot on the scene. i just found this out from someone who would know. i don't have that confirmed from the -- from the company yet or the police, but from someone who was inside the company said that happened and there were several people who were shot. i don't know -- not one or two people, i don't think it was a lot. i don't know, i can't confirm that. this is someone inside said that. >> let me get you to say that again. you have confirmed with someone -- >>. no, i have not confirmed with police or the company yet. >> no, but somebody inside the company told you that the shooter was shot? >> had been shot, yeah. >> was he no longer a threat? is. >> i don't know.

i don't have any other information than that. >> can we ask you were they communicating with you by text or by phone? >> yes. by text. >> any indication -- was this person who i assume is a friend or a colleague, is your friend safe? >> they had gotten the information from being there. >> but was -- >> i'm getting a lot of different feeds right now. i'm looking at them now. i can't confirm that is the case. they said they thought two people were shot but it could be more, obviously. >> and kara, let me just fill you in on some of our reporting at nbc news. we've reported that san francisco general is receiving patients, so which you're hearing would be -- >> san francisco general is pretty far away. there's probably a hospital closer into the area. but some people were shot on the scene. apparently the shooter has been shot in some fashion. i don't know if seriously or in any way. but, again, this facility is right on the street in san bruno. youtube headquarters is separate

from google, the google campus. it's owned by google, which in turn is owned by alphabet. so it's separate and been run separately since its founding essentially. since google bought it also. and it's -- and it has a building right on the street in san bruno. it's relatively accessible. it's not a campus-like setting like other tech headquarters. i was just there the other day and walked right into the lobby. it's a very beautiful area lobby, very easy, the cafeteria, an outdoor area, then you have to badge into -- sign in, obviously, when you get there but you have to badge into the area where the employees are which is up to several -- there are several different levels of stairs there. but it's an open and airy facility, again, very easy to walk into for certain. >> kara, stay on the line with us. especially as you're getting information in real time from folks inside and at youtube, if you will. let me bring into the conversation nbc's tom winter who joins us now with new details on what the police are looking for at this hour. tom? >> so, nicolle, just the latest

literally coming in, the atf, the alcohol, tobacco and firearms san francisco field office says they are en route to what they call a, quote, reported shooting at the youtube headquarters. at this time we haven't had anybody from the law enforcement community confirm that shots have been actually fired and that anybody has been injured. however, the reporting that you just suggested moments ago that our station out in san francisco has talked to a hospital that says they've received patients from the scene, and, oof course we need to make sure those aren't patients that could have been injured in the process of fleeing the building. we've seen video of that. we know that that's happened. we've had numerous eyewitness accounts so we know that's occurred. i'm able to listen to and have been listening to a little bit of what the police are doing at this point, that's something that here at nbc news we don't share live in realtime because who knows what -- if there's anybody outstanding here or if there's anybody that could be potentially still a problem.

we don't want to tell them what law enforcement is doing right now. obviously, it's still a very active scene. we have heard various fire agencies say they're going to be transporting people from the scene so it does appear we have some additional confirmation that there are some injuries that are associated with this. let's just take kind of a brief idea of what we might be looking at and in what we would be seeing here on the ground. the first priority for law enforcement is to be able to enter to that building and the modern teaching and we saw where we had a bit of a failure of this in florida, but i have actually personally gone out and trained with several police departments as they responded to active shooting training, have gone through and seen most of the nypd's active shooter training courses, and basically law enforcement here, they want to be able to push the fight, is the term that they use, they want to try to confront whoever is doing this shooting, get to them as soon as possible and end

that situation as soon as possible, either getting that person to put down the weapon which almost never occurs, or more likely, be able to try to shoot or stop the threat. so that's their immediate concern. hopefully that process has occurred and is either under way or the situation is kind of contained itself. then obviously they want to get to treating these people that have been hurt. nicolle? >> tom winter, i realize your name isn't up to our viewers. you've been listening to nbc's tom winter who talks us through, sadly, a lot of these tragedies. tom, i want to ask you if you can respond to what kara swisher was able to share with our viewers, which is an account that she acknowledges is unconfirmed with police or with youtube or google, but she understands and has heard that the shooter was shot and kara, go ahead and jump in if i get any of this wrong. >> sure. >> no reporting on whether or not the shooter was injured, but that the shooter was shot and that at least two other people were also shot. tom winter, are you able to work

at confirming any of that for us? do you have an open line with the police there? >> sure. so we have not received any official briefing from law enforcement from law enforcement. and my colleague, andrew, has been on the phone with some of his folks. he is based out of los angeles. and so it is too soon to get official law enforcement confirmation. however, i have heard some radio traffic that seems to corroborate a little bit about what cara has heard from her friend. she is completely dialed into that area of the country and into this industry. so she would have the folks to talk to that are actually there. just getting a little bit of a sense of looking at this scene at this point, it didn't appear that there is an active search, but that can be deceiving. so what we don't have from law enforcement, what we don't have from anybody on the ground is

whether or not when they will looking for anybody else. nicole, yannicoll nicolle, you and i have sadly done this before. so there are often reports when there a third or second shooter when there isn't. so that is the process that is occurring. so tonight soon to say with any sort of certainty that whoever may be responsible for this incident, that that person is in fact either no longer shooting, no longer with us or is in custody in some way. just too soon to say. kara swis to talk about the security that exists at most tech companies. which you describe the security at youtube headquarters where you were last week, you said that you needed to badge in. are there guards, where there

glass doors? talk about it for us. >> well, it looks like there is security there obviously. and google as i recall from being at google, they have strong security. they are armed and they have access to weapons. but you don't see them. they are very open campuses. they feel like college campuses in a lot of ways. very easy to come in and out of doors. you can easily go cafeterias. there are many open areas to eat. and most of the campuses are like again like just like college campuses. and so it is relatively easy to get access to these buildings. and there are so many people. there are people everywhere. youtube building, they have buildings across the street from each other, it is the middle of an area where there is lots of headquarters and there is a restaurant on the corner. very easy to walk into. the other day i was there and i

walked right in and nobody stopped me. you know, to get into the employee area, you had to damage in just like most buildings. but it was -- there is not per septemberable security right there. i didn't notice it at least. but i'm sure it is there with cameras and other ways. and it is a popular campus. uchlts tube h u youtube has a big popularity. so they get a lot of walk-in traffic for sure. >> jim cavanaugh, are you still watching with us? >> yeah, i'm here. >> so our reporter at the table shared that san francisco general hospital which is far away, there are certainly other hospitals in the peninsula, is a major trauma center.

does that tell you something about what kind of injuries are potentially being addressed or anticipated on or prepared for based on today's shooting? >> yeah, certainly you you could have had a gunshot victim's life flighted into san francisco hospitals because they have trauma centers. that is pretty routine. helicopters move in quick on these things. and they can transport people who are critically wounded. and also when you are not hearing a lot of wounded, large numbers of wounded, sometimes these things are domestics. or the person frying to get back at the boss or one or two employees in the building that they have a grudge against because they were terminated or disciplined. and sometimes they turn the gun on themselves. so we have a murder-suicide. unfortunately in america every day there is murder-suicide. it happens at home, on street, it happens in businesses. and sometimes those situations occur. we don't quite know what is

going on here yet. but the reporter who talked about the text message that the shooter had been shot, that could be by his own hand which is not unusual. so is it a targeted assault? in other words, someone wants to get back at a particular person, a domestic partner, a boss, someone they have a grudge against, or is it just a complete stranger attack. the person could have been shot by another employee, by law enforcement, could have shot themselves. so all these questions where open to us. >> car arekara swisher, youtube isn't under the kind of scrutiny by the public or i think they are probably in some corners of congress-. >> yeah, they are. >> but not by the public. . >> yeah, they are. >> but not by the public. do people think of themselves as potential targets?

you describe sort of a college campus. and it seems like the kind of place where most people would have the feeling of being relatively saefr when they go to work. >> oh, yeah. i don't think people think of it at all. again, they are like college. there is food and a sports facility and massages and dry cleaning. it is a really inclusive -- the companies do a lot for their employees. have you been to one or two? they are very open and sort of a fun environment. they really do. >> they always make me wish i had chosen a different career path to be totally honest. >> i can't imagine anybody feeling as if flld be it would active shooting. of course you should think of it now obviously. guns are going into schools and every else.

so you don't think about it, but of course you are like they are alaska saysabbeing all accessible. >> the gun debate and dianne feinste feinstein's role in it have its roots in the '90s. there is a tragic of workplace violence in the san francisco bay area. but other than in a, i cannot think of another tech campus being targeted with gun violence. allege am i missing anything? >> not that i can recall.violen. am i missing anything? >> not that i can recall.being violence. am i missing anything? >> not that i can recall. nothing everyon close. obviously dianne feinsteie finn there. but not at the tech companies.

they certainly spend a lot of time on security and making certain that their personal homes are safe. but there is securities every single company. and again, you may not see it, but i'm sure they have very robust security. apple in particular when you go to their campus. but in general, most feel very open and i think that is the way they are designed to feel. >> didn't surprise me i get locked out of my apple iphone once a week. let's me ask you, steve, you were so eloquent in the days after parkland. but the voices that shock me the most are the voices of law enforcement who when a shooting is ongoing, people like jim, people like former mayor bratton, people who have dealt with gun violence are talking about what you have been talking about the access ability to

guns, people walking out of their places of business with their hands over their head. shame on anyone who gets used to that. will something give? >> i think when you watch these images and the totality of all of it and if didn't get your attention, i don't know what is wrong with you. think about guns. 50 years ago tomorrow a gun took the life of martin luther king. and i've been to the mountaintop speech that martin luther king, and notable for three things.

it is optimism at a time of great anxiety. his surveying all of human history and saying how grateful it is to be alive and in the fight for justin and lastly the belief that the country will be okay. that it will get to the place that he needs to be. and we have missing from our politics today is that sense of optimism and hope. and it is a great speech to watch tonight. >> and something to put this moment into its appropriate context, to put this moment into its appropriate anchor, i'm going to hand things over to brian williams. but i first want to thank kara and tom and steve, charlie, and so we'll stay on the story and please stay with us.