dangerous thing to do to put u.s. military forces on the border with an ally like that. >> a dangerous thing to do. we'll keep following the story. francesca, john, thank you for joining me. thank you for watching this evening. that does it for me. my friend ari melber will be back in this seat tomorrow evening. i'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. trump guards his rear. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in san francisco. president trump finds himself tonight in a two-front war trying to kill off the notion he's been in bed with putin all the way to the white house and two, trying to convince his hard right supporters he's really out to stop illegal immigration wall or no wall. but we begin with the break news of that shooting at the

headquarters of youtube just to the south of me in san bruno, california. police responded to reports of a shooting at 12:48 this afternoon pacific time. aerial footage showed employees walking out of the building with their hands up. police describe a scene of chaos when they arrived. authorities confirm that a female suspect a woman in her 30s was deceased at the scene. san bruno police chief ed barberini briefed reporters a short time ago. >> we did encounter one victim with a gunshot toward the front of the business as we arrived. several minutes later while conducting a search of the premises will, officers located a second individual with a gunshot wound that appears to may have been self-inflicted. we are still working on confirming that. two additional victims were located several minutes later. at at adjacent business. the extent of all the injuries

of our victims are unknown right now. they were all transported for emergency medical care but they are all unknown. if i missed that, we have four victims. >> just in the past hour, law enforcement officials told nbc they believe the motive was a domestically related dispute. investigates are were on the scene assisting local law enforcement agencies. i'm joined by justice correspondent pete williams. what do we have now as of now? >> so many times in a situation like this, chris, we don't know what the motive was but we seem to know that tonight. what the authorities are telling us is that this woman came to the youtube workplace with a specific target in mind. someone she knew someone with whom she wanted to settle a grievance. she shot that person, she may have shot a second person who was with him intentionally. we're not sure about the third person. the authorities have told us that the male that she shot is

in critical condition in the hospital in san francisco. the two the women are in serious and fair condition. but this is not the kind of workplace shooting where someone shows up to send a message or try to try to create as much carnage as possible. this was someone who came there authorities say to settle a grievance. as far as the firearm used, we're waiting confirmation of it. all the indications so far is she had a semi-automatic handgun, a pistol. semi-automatic simply means it fires every time you pull the trigger. witnesses have said they heard a number of shots. so the is not would appear to be that the victims were outside eating lunch when this woman showed up with a gun, saw them there, opened fire, and then apparently the police say shot and killed herself. so as we speak now, just one fatality. the gun woman hearse. the assailant herself.

three people in the hospital with gunshot wounds. and another person was apparently injured probably running in the chaos with an injured ankle. so it could have been much worse. but the motive seems to be pretty clear tonight. this was someone trying to settle a grievance. >> pete williams, thank you for that report. zack voor he's was an eyewitness, a youtube software engineer who was in the building at the time of the shooting. zack, tell us what you went through? >> chris matthews, yeah, i was at my desk working when the fire army went off. and we all thought that okay, well, there's a fire alarm. we exited the back of the building. i had my electric skate board. and input the skate board on the ground and i started going down account hill towards the courtyard. and i heard some yelling going on. and when i arrived, near the

courtyard, i heard somebody yelling do you want to shoot me? and i looked to my left which was his right and i saw somebody lying on their back on the concrete with what appeared to be a gunshot wound through the stomach. and i say that because there was a red splotch on his shirt and he wasn't moving. and at that point, i didn't really understand what was going on. until i saw the door that separated the courtyard from the street open up. and a police officer came in with an assault rifle. and at that point, i ran away. i put my skate board down and i exited the area. i went to the parking structure and escaped to the side and made it out okay. >> was the voice, could you discern whether the voice was male or female that said do you

want to shoot me? >> it was a male. it was a male. yeah. >> so you believe it must be or was the person you saw on the ground wounded, badly wounded in the stomach? >> yeah, and before i thought that that was the shooter but now i'm not sure. i think there might might have been some sort of verbal argument going on. that's when i entered into the scene. but yeah. it was a man is what i saw. >> scary reporting for you. thanks so much, zach. we'll continue to follow any developments throughout this hour. this is all live coverage right now. now follow ticks, president trump hit on a wide range of targets today in a bar raj of early morning tweets and in multiple interactions with reporters he called out every network but one calling them all fake news. we know which one he skipped. the he mocked the president of cnn, continued his attack on amazon, threatened the government of mexico co, demanded credit for helping

nato, took jabs at hillary clinton and even barack obama and said he was sending the military to the border with mexico. that was all before lunch today. then in a joint press conference with leaders of the baltic states, he derided the u.s. press generally. let's watch. >> pick a reporter, please. you can pick a reporter. a baltic reporter ideally. real news, not fake news. >> oh, what a chuckle. president trump again today defended the sinclair broadcast group, the local news behemoth known to mix right leaning commentary into their news coverage. he tweeted at 6:30 this morning. "the fake news networks those that knowingly have a sick and biased agenda are worried about the competition and quality of sinclair broadcast. he also tweeted about the outlier poll that showed his approval rating higher than other polls show him. thank you to rasmussen he said

for the honest polling. just hit 50% which is higher than cheating obama at this time in his administration. it's not clear what earned the former president that nickname. susan page is washington bureau chief of "usa today," robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eddie glaude chairman of the center for african-american studies at princeton and a contributor. let me start with susan. i have a sense that the president is fighting two wars right now as we said in the opening headline before he went into the shooting down here in san bruno in california. i get the feeling that he's worried about people like ann coulter saying he's gone soft on the wall that he's not going to deliver for his base and even though maybe his numbers are high right now among his base, maybe up to the 40s, i don't think they're to 50, in the low 40s now, that he is afraid he's losing something. that's why he's screaming crazy

stuff about bringing troops to the border, et cetera. your thoughts. >> i think we've gone back to the future here as though we're back in 2015 and during the 2016 campaign. there was no issue that animated donald trump and his followers more than the issue of immigration and the concerns about what was happening coming over the border and the threats that they saw there. he is returning to those themes. i think it reflects both a desire to bolster his support among his base. and also it may reflect the fact he has seemed quite liberated from those who he had surrounded him on the white house staff urging him not to the go with his gut, people like h.r. mcmaster or gae cohn or rob porter, people who urged him to think maybe think twice sometimes do not what his first instinct was. those people have been either lost some of their power or gone away. we are left with more a pure distillation of donald trump. >> robert, here's my theory about trump's political goals.

i think he wants to run right now for re-election. who knows what he'll decide in a couple years. he wants to run. i think his entire strategy comes down to two parts. one, grab and hold 45% of the electorate, enough to get him elected the first time. he feels he's got hold of it thanks to rasmus sen's estimations. hold on to that for all he's got. fight on the wall, immigration, crime, whatever holds that together and wait for the democrats to pick an opponent and knock his or her head off. go against whoever they run, he wins that way he's setting up the first proposition which is hold 45%, enough to win and then knock the other guy's head off. that's what he's up to, i think. >> he already has an election staring him in the face, chris. the midterm elections this year and he is trying torous the base, not just looking to 2020 but 2018.

my sources say the president believes talking about the wall, sending troops to the border is the way to get that base to turn out this november. there's a divide in the republican party. many congressional republicans uncomfortable with the tact the president takes on some of these issues. the controversy he welcomes. they would rather run on the tax cut. there's not a coherent color russ with this is republican party and how they're going to approach the election. >> they never did like him. he beat them. they didn't join them. he beat them. >> and they're not comfortable with his style of politics. they see him fighting with the media every day, picking new fights. trying to focus on immigration. they think the immigration voter on the conservative side is already there. they're worried about the suburban voter who turned in alabama who turned in southwestern pennsylvania this spring. >> eddie, let me ask you about this refresher course in obama hatred. what is that about? is that just playing the race card? when he goes after obama, is has

nothing to do with the current conversation at all and starts talking about cheaten obama. is that playing the ethnic thing? sometimes i wonder if that's what he does to keep that base happy. your thoughts? >> i think so, chris. it is in part a part of the kind of race-baiting that is in some ways a feature of his invocation of the immigration question. he's appealing to the baser instincts of his base as it were. it's also a case study for freud in terms of projection. there's something about his obsession with obama and what he's sxaj projecting on to him that suggests something about his psyche. >> go on. follow this all the way. what is it? >> you know, in some ways it seems to me that the success of obama, the fact that obama clowned him top use a kind of control questional phrase clound him at i forget which event it was. >> the white house press correspondents dinner where he

made a fool of him. >> yeah, exactly. the success of his administration over the eight years, the fact that obama made fun of him or clowned him at the press club meeting, right, has made him the object of trump's scorn. in other words, everything that obama is trump desires to be. so he projects his failures. >> i look at the outer aspects of what you might envy in barack obama. he's a cool guy. cool in a senate trat, positive sinatra way unlike trump which is the bad sinatra. is he cool. he's got a very successful marriage, great kids. first marriage, no disasters there. a great marriage all these years, real partnership. ivy league education, a real one with a harvard degree, harvard law degree. are those the things that trump despite his claim to billions, is that what he really wants that barack obama has? is that your suggestion? >> in part, chris, i should just be as explicit as i can be.

there seems to me, and i may be wrong here, there's a bit of obama is this uppity black person we need to put in his place. >> really? >> he takes at every turn, he takes an opportunity to put obama in his place. >> well, that is truly sad. for four days straight, trump has tweeted about a caravan of migrants from central america, probably honduras marching through mexico. he warned they're heading here. the organizers of that dispute that. the group has been stalled for days and mexican authorities offered temporary protection to some and deported others. today president trump took credit for that. let's watch. >> i have just heard that the caravan coming up from honduras is broken up and mexico did that. they did it because frankly i said you really have to do it. we're going to have a relationship on nafta, we're going to have to include security in nafta. the caravan doesn't irritate me. the caravan makes me very sad

that there could happen to the united states. you have thousands of people that decide to just walk into our country and we don't have netlaws that can protect it. >> one of the organizers of the so-called caravan told "the new york times" he predict at most 10 to 15% of the actual participants would even seek asylum here in the united states. let me go back to susan page. this caravan thing is iconic for trump the idea there's armies of people marching into the united states unopposed is certainly a figure that -- certainly it's a frightening figure to those angry about illegal immigration that he can play to. >> yeah, it's a rhetorical device that sets up a big threat. he also said he may send u.s. troops to the southern border which would be a pretty significant escalation in efforts along the border in the absence of building the great big beautiful wall that he's had some trouble getting funding for. >> what's a guy with a rifle, a

soldier with a rifle, an m-16 would do to guard a boarder? isn't that dangerous? they can't shoot people for coming into the country? i mean, i always wondered. that seems like a cumbersome deployment, susan. >> it is one that's been used before. george w. bush sent national guardsmen to the border, barack obama sent some, too. it sounded like. >> what were the duties? >> their dues i think were to patrol the border and try to keep people from coming over illegally. but i think president trump will seem to be talking about a bigger deployment, more muscular deployment than his predecessors have done. it's not entirely clear how that works in securing the border. there is no issue president trump talks about with more energy than this one. >> we started shooting and killing people crossing theed border just to get to america, that's going to be morally unsettling. >> it's horrible. >> donald trump told reporters the military would be deployed

to secure the southern border. other presidents have sent national guard troops to the border to help with surveillance and other forms of support, there were prohibitions against using active duty soldiers to conduct law enforcement operations within the united states. later trump was asked to explain what he meant. >> the mexican border is very unprotected by our laws. we have horrible horrible and very unsafe laws in the united states. we're going to be able to do something about that hopefully soon. hopefully congress will get their act together and get in and create some very powerful laws. so what we are preparing for the military to secure our border between mexico and the united states. >> well, late today, white house press secretary announced that president trump received aid briefing today that included mobilizing the national guard. let me go to robert on this. this does seem dramatic. you send soldiers down there in fatigues to guard the border.

the question of how you use military is a bigger question than whether you do. when you bring them in the rifles, what do they do with those rifles? >> it's not just about the confrontation with mexico. there's a political cue lus going on inside of the white house. they know the president is frustrated that he can't get a deal for the border wall. his signature campaign pledge and he's hoping white house officials tell me that by talking about militarizing the border, you can taing to the secretary of defense about putting troops there, that maybe he'll bring the democrats to the table. there's not a big appetite on capitol hill among republicans or democrats to have a major immigration pact at this moment a few months before the midterms that would be a daca deal for the border wall. in lieu of that, he's moving on the troops and talking to mattis. >> i'm so discouraged by the quality of politics today. why don't they just cut a deal. you get a piece of the wall for daca. everybody's happy.

maybe not thrilled but heavy enough. one thing for that thing. >> they be done some of that already. in this omnibus spending bill, there's a sliver of the wall here and there. >> there's no daca there. >> there's noda ca and not really a border wall in the concrete sense. >> both sides know what they want. the moderate and progressives in this country and most people want something done for the daca young people who were brought here young and most people are for them. and the wall thing hey, is another project to spend money on. you know, i mean it would make him happy. you can move on instead of this constant aggravation. >> look, suburban republicans in the philadelphia suburbs aren't clamoring for a border wall to run on in a contentious midterm elections. the democrats fear if they go for the border wall, where is the democratic base? will they come out for a democratic party that supports a wall? >> schumer was for it. it happens to right wing wanted to add in all the other stuff. go ahead snead dick durbin and

lindsey graham came up with a compromise that the white house then blew up which involved daca and parts of the wall. so this is just boondoggle that -- this is something i've been thinking about with regards to trump. you can't pay attention to the way in which he's dealing with facts with regards to the merits of the question. you have to pay attention to the end game. robert hit it right on the head. what he's saying about caravans and our weak laws, none of that bears any resemblance to the facts of the matter. what's interesting is the way in which he's trying to create a moral panicking in order to justify cruel policies with regards to immigration. that's the end game. we need to treat it as such and not deal with all the smoke and mirrors he's putting forward. >> being a demagogue is not a good long-term career path. it's good in the short run. thank you susan, robert costa and eddie glaude. up next, the latest in the russia investigation. somebody's actually going to

jail over there as we're getting new clues about the scope of robert mueller's full investigation. lots more to it. i say it's the iceberg. there's so much going on with this investigation we don't know the about yet. by the way, mr. titanic doesn't know either. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪ slap on some cologne ♪ i'm 85 and i wanna go home ♪ ♪ just got a job ♪ as a lifeguard in savannah ♪ ♪ i'm 85 and i wanna go home ♪ ♪ dropping sick beats, they call me dj nana ♪ ♪ 85 and i wanna go don't get mad. get e*trade, kiddo.

but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. well, president trump responded to the shooting today at the youtube headquarters a short time ago. trump wrote on twitter "was just briefed on the shooing at youtube's headquarters in san bruno, california. here it comes. our thoughts and prayers are with everybody involved. thank to our fopal law enforcement officers and first responders currently on the scene." you can take that for what it's worth. we'll be right back. r birth. but you started a new life in a brand new world. when i built my ancestry family tree, i found your story... then, my dna test helped me reclaim the portuguese citizenship you lost.

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people. >> how do you see vladimir putin? is he a friend or a foe. we'll find out. i'll let you know. you're going to find out very quickly. >> welcome back to "hardball." after his meeting today with the leaders of the baltic states, president trump insisted he's been tough on russia while maintaining he still wants a good relationship with the country that interfered in our election. of course, trump's so-called relationship with russia is precisely what the special counsel is probing right now. we want to know what that relationship is. today we saw the first sentence handed down in connected with the probe. this morning the london based attorney who worked with rick gates and paul manafort became the first to receive jail time after pleading guilty to a count of making false statements. alexander van der zwaan was sentenced to 30 days in prison for specifically lying about his contacts with gates and a business associate whereas ties

to russian intelligence agencies. i'm joined by ken dilanian and jill wine-banks, former watergate prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. when somebody gets 30 days in jail, maybe they were picked up for getting drunk somewhere or getting off easy for something much worse. what is it here? >> you're right, chris, he could have gotten up to six months. but really he's the first offender and there's some argument that in many cases somebody like this might not have been prosecuted at all that the mueller team played "hardball." did he tell the truth before these charges were filed. they charged him anyway. he's getting the 30 days in jail and he's a lawyer. he's going to lose his law license, presumably disbarred. this underscores these people can take your freedom away. they're not playing. it's a message to hundreds of witnesses you'd better not lie to the special counsel.

>> jill, his first prosecution reminds me of watergate. in this case, you start with the small fry, if you will and work your way up. punishing them along the way perhaps. >> it does. and that is how we operated. you start building your case by getting the people who can give you someone higher up. and in this case, i think van der zwaan was a peripheral character but it does show that you cannot lie that they know a lot more in the prosecutor's office than you think they do and that you must tell the truth. that's a very strong message to all future witnesses. don't think you can outsmart them. you can end up in jail for this. >> ken, why do you think the president keeps saying i'm tough on the russians when the question before the court is, has he been too nice to them? >> yeah, it's a conundrum. his administration has grown increasingly tough on the russians with some actions in recent days. nikki haley has been condemning the russians.

we're still waiting for donald trump himself to say a bad word about putin. in addition to the election interference, don't forget the russians were involved in an attack on a u.s. base in syria, russian mercenaries. and you know, they're allegedly involved in this poisoning of a british citizen in the uk that the trump administration condemned. i don't recall donald trump specifically denouncing putin over it. it's bizarre why he can't bring himself to do that. a new court filing revealed more details about the broad scope of the mueller investigation. it comes after trump's indicted former campaign chairman paul manafort argued in court that the case against him is outside the bounds of the special counsel's mandate. however, the highly redacted memo drafted last august shows the manafort inquiry was approved by deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who told mueller to investigate "allegations that paul manafort committed a crime or crimes by colluding with russian

government officials as well as crimes arising out of payments he received from the ukrainian government." they're looking at collusion and working on manafort but not just about his role in probable collusion but going after his business affairs generally which means he is really vulnerable. >> this is very significant, chris. some critics of the manafort prosecution argued look, money laundering, tax evasion what does that have to do with collusion with russia. now we have in black and white from the justice department there are serious allegations that paul manafort colluded. obviously, the special counsel has not confirmed that to his satisfaction. otherwise we would see charges filed. that is what he's investigating. we've talked about this a long time. i've long said you can't make the collusion case till you have paul plfrt's testimony arguably. that's why they're going so hard after him. they're wanting him to flip and putting all the pressure in the

world on him. >> joe. >> jill, if you stop a guy for speeding and find he's got drugs in his trunk, you can hit him for having drugs. i don't think they're going to get an impeachment just on obstruction. they have to find an underlying crime that americans under trump's watch, his people did something. is that your conclusion? can you see something coming out of this if they can't show trump collusion with the russians? >> i think if you're talking about trump's base, yes, you need to show some sort of conspiracy working with the russians. i think for the majority of americans, for the 70% of people you do not. keep in mind in watergate there was nos underlying crime that the president was involved in. >> his people did it. >> yes. >> his people broke into the watergate. creep did it. >> that is true. i still think it's enough to have a real ongoing obstruction

of justice by the president and his aids who are deliberately trying to stop the investigation. they know there's something there or they wouldn't be doing it. they know there's someone guilty involved in a conspiracy with russia. the russians know something or have something and that's why they're trying to stop the investigation. and we have to let the investigation go forward to find out the answer to that. >> let me go to ken on that question. do you think they have to show that the trump's people did something we didn't know about it? we know he fired comey and tried to protect flynn. is that enough to impeach him? >> that's a political question, chris. i think it depends who controls the house of representatives. but i mean, clearly the obstruction case looms large. that front has been quiet lately. there was some reporting that mueller has that case in the bag and he's holding it in abeyance and pursuing the collusion question. but you know, i can envision a scenario where trump is not

directly linked to collusion but the obstruction case is still presented as grounds for impeachment. that is speculative and we're a long way from that. >> so you think it's going to take collusion to bring him down as president? >> i don't know. you know, talking about collusion. there's no crime of collusion. there's conspiracy. we reported a couple weeks ago that mueller plans to indict some of the russians involved in the hacking and leaking. the question is, can he pin any of that on anyone linked to the trump campaign and did donald trump know about it. that's going to be key, chris. >> jill, while we have you, how do you see this case going? >> there's also. >> over the next year. >> there's a lot of evidence linking russians directly to the campaign. you have the hearing now that went forward on the sentencing that mentions that a government agent was in conversation with rick gates during the campaign and that he knew about it. so there are things that link

the campaign and trump is ultimately responsible for that campaign to the russians. and that could be the underlying conspiracy with the russians. we don't know what is known yet. but i see this going forward a step at a time. and i think that in terms of manafort, yes, there's a clear and easy case to make against him for money laundering and for the crimes that he has been charged with, but hopefully he's now starting to see how much more the prosecutors know and will start to talk and admit what he has done in terms of the election which is clearly set forth in rosenstein's authority to mueller. so it could go much further and i think we could have a collusion even though as ken said, there is no such crime as collusion. i've given up in trying to get people to stop saying that. it's conspiracy with a foreign agent that is the crime. >> and you think that that would be enough for an impeachment process to go through, that you

would prove that the president and his people did something to help the russians do what they intended to do, in other words, con sird with them in that way and that would be enough? >> yes. sorry, absolutely. if you can prove that there was a relationship where the americans worked with the russians to interfere with the american election, that is clearly an impeachable offense. it's a criminal offense, as well. but as ken said, it is a political question as to what congress also do with that information. >> ken, your thought? >> i think i agree with that. jill made a very important point awhile back. the most significant revelation to come out of the van der zwaan was person a, the guy he lied about talking to had ongoing connections to russian intelligence during the campaign and he was talking to rick gates, deputy campaign manager. that's a tap theizing clue that emerged only in the last week, a new piece of information suggesting potential collusion.

doesn't problem it yet but i really want to know what else gates and this russian investigation offic intelligence officer were talking about. >> thank you, ken dilanian and jill wine-banks. we have a lot more on trump's he controversial plan to send troops to the mexican border. you're watching "hardball." he's trying to tell us something. let's see what forensics thinks. sorry i'm late. what did i miss? wanna get away? now you can with southwest fares as low as 49 dollars one-way. yes to low fares with nothing to hide. that's transfarency. thisreally passionate about- i really want to help. i was on my way out of this life. there are patients out there that don't have a lot of time. finally, it was like the sun rose again and i was going to start

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very unprotected by our laws. we have horrible horrible and very unsafe laws in the united states. we're going to be able to do something about that hopefully soon. we are preparing for the military to secure our border. between mexico and the united states. we have a meeting on it in a little while with general mattis and everybody. and i think that it's something we have to do. >> welcome back to "hardball." donald trump told reporters he planned to have the u.s. military guard the border with mexico. he didn't employ much detail when asked about it later. let's watch. >> the mexican board ser very unpruked but our laws. we have horrible horrible and very unsafe loss in the united states and we're going to be able to be do something about that hopefully soon. hopefully congress will get their act together and get in and create some very powerful laws. so what we are preparing for the

military to secure our border between mexico and the united states. >> the late today, the white house press secretary announces president trump received a briefing today that included mobilizing the national guard. meanwhile, president trump himself spent the morning attacking fake news. amazon, mexico, and barack obama. for more i'm joined by the "hardball" roundtable, fran chess cas chambers did, political correspondent for reuters and eugene scott with the "washington post." what do we do with troops with rifles? i've wondered how you use soldiers to guard a border when they've got loaded rifles? do they shoot people when they cross the border or watch them and not shoot them? i don't quite get the duty. >> it's not clear wlets president trump is talking about deploying the national guard if he's talking about the army, the navy, we don't really have the details on that. importantly, as well is how many

military members is he talking about deploying down to the border. he said that he would be discussing this with general mattis and others. but democrats are already saying that this would not be a good way to use the military's resources that they have better things to dose in other places overseas although president trump today saying he wants to take the military out of syria so seemingly one less responsibility for the military soon. >> ginger it seems like if you can't build a wall, you brings troops in. he lost on the cr on the big spending bill and couldn't get any substantial portion of the wall approved. he's got to say something to people who voted for him saying i'm going to stop them with u.s. troops. that seems to be the statement he's making here. >> or you build the troops in to build the wall. have no doubt the military could construct a wall quickly, maybe with not the permit and processing they would use otherwise. >> and the army corps of engineers? >> not even just the army corps

of engineers. you bring combat troops in trained to handle logistic issues in war zones. the big question becomes, can he even do that? does he need congress' approval. i've got two the words for you when you start talking about using troops in that way, those are lindsey graham. he has repeatedly criticized the president for wanting to spend money for a wall on the southern border. he's going to have a big say on whether or not congress would sign off on such a thing. i have a hard time believing he would have an easy sell on this one. >> and sean. >> eugene. >> we've got a lot of changes in the show because of what happened in san bruno today. tell me, what do you think he means there's going to be troops in. it's the news of the day. >> i think what he wants to do is reassure his base he's taking this issue seriously despite not delivering to them. immigration is what he campaigned on and what he will be graded on and it's what many people who were on the trump

train will think about when they head to the polls this fall and try to figure out if they're going to vote for lawmakers supporting trump's vision for making america great again. i don't think they'll bring more guns to the border. it's going to end up looking very well in his favor and in the party's favor as a whole especially when we talk how many of these individuals trying to get into the united states are minors. >> of course. you know, i think that's stupid. the democrats are standing there empty hand and don't have a progressive approach to deal with immigration and haven't had one. they wait for trump to make a fool of himself. that is an opening. he's going to try to fill it. roundtable is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball." puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. she told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar,

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we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. francesca, tell me something i don't know. >> next week president trump will be in lima, peru at the summit of the americas which will bring him face-to-face with

central american leaders. he said today he would try to cut off aid to honduras and others like that if the caravan wasn't stopped. it could be awkward as he comes to lima next week to meet with those leader and peña nieto the mexican president will also be there and looking to see if they have a meeting, as well. >> wow. ginger? >> the saga between the president and amazon is not over. it's something we should watch closely. reuters was the first report today the u.s. chamber of commerce criticizing the president for attacking american company. we've been told by white house officials that while president trump isn't considering taking action on amazon right now, he could have his mind changed and we could see that position reversed. so very much still up in the air. >> i'm betting on amazon. eugene? >> yes, despite the president consistently attacking cnn and "the washington post" and msnbc, a new monmouth university poll

came out monday saying more americans trust msnbc and cnn than president trump to deliver factual information. >> thank you, eugene. that was a nice door prize for us. thanks so much. francesca, ginger gibson and eugene scott. up next reverend al sharpton is here to talk about the legacy of martin luther king 50 years after his assassination. you're watching "hardball." a family of seven technology leaders working behind the scenes to make the impossible... reality. we're helping to give cars the power to read your mind from anywhere... and we're helping up to 40% of the nation's donated blood supply to be redirected to the people that need it most. magic can't make digital transformation happen... but we can.

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reverend al sharpton talks about the 50th anniversary of the assassination of dr. king. and tank. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still? this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace and this is where life meets legal.

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kraft. family greatly. we've got some difficulties ahead. but it really doesn't matter with me now because i've been to the mountain top. like anybody, i would like to live a long life, longevity has its place. but i'm not concerned about that now. and i've seen the promised land. i may not get there with you. but i want you to know tonight that we as a people get to the promised land. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was martin luther king deliver is his iconic mountain top speech exactly 50 years ago tonight in memphis, ten fen.

he was assassinated the next day. i'm joined by reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation." reverend, i never asked you this. give me the unadulterated story of the last several years of dr. king when he was, you know, he came out against the vietnam war that ticked off people in the middle and the right. he wasn't perhaps as militant as the black community leadership it was what it like to be dr. king in those last couple of years? >> dr. king was very much in many ways unpopular. and he was standing alone. he was under attack by many on the right including the liberals in the johnson administration because he had come out against account war in vietnam. other civil rights leaders of national organizations attacked him saying he was hurting the civil rights cause doing that. he was under attack on the left. many of the more strident black

power advocates had said nonviolence had run its course and wanted to see other things done. when he was killed, i was 13, i was born and raised in new york, it wasn't popular to be with dr. king. was a pointed youth director that year of his local chapter here. it wasn't popular to be with dr. king in the north because it was more strident. so i think people forget from the left and the right he was under attack which really showed the moral strength he had that he wouldn't waiver in terms of his tactics of nonviolence or his goal of world peace and, of course, racial equality. >> and he at a time before a lot of people in the middle politically saw it, he saw the unfairness of vietnam here and there. the injustice of the war. >> absolutely. in fact, a year before his death, april 4th, '67, he came to new york and spoke at riverside church and came out against the war and marched with

dr. benjamin spock and others. and i remember when he last came to new york two weeks before lisa sass nation, he came to reverend ryan t. walker here. many of the so-called mainstream civil rights leaders that laud him did not want to be identified because they didn't want to alienate the johnson administration. so he had a very lonely trek the last couple years. but he was able to stand it and he didn't budge. he ended his life fighting on economic issues. he foresaw a lot of what we dealt with in my generation and we continue to deal with economic inequality way before it was popular. he was trying to organize a poor people's campaign. he went to memphis to support a union of garbage workers we'll be marching with them tomorrow in memphis. so i think that he had a vision that was way beyond his times and shaped the times in which we're living in.

we're nowhere near where we need to be. less than a week ago, i'm doing the eulogy over an unarmed black man shot in sacramento. dr. king talked about police brutality 50 years ago. we're still dealing with it but we've made a lot of progress because of what he did because he went from demonstration to legislation voter rights and civil rights. he changed america. >> thank you. it's great to have you as a colleague. take care of yourself. reverend al sharpton, the sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this. sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this. sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this. sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this. sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this. sacramento because he does go where he has to go. we'll be right back after this.

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that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. i'll be back in washington tomorrow night. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i've always found paul manafort to be a very decent man. >> a bomb slel from robert mueller confirming he is investigating trump's campaign chair for collusion crimes. >> that's what he said. that's what i said -- that's obviously what our position is. >> as the first person heads to jail in the russia probe, we'll look at who could be next. >> only time will tell. >> plus, the latest on a shooting at youtube's head quarters and the slew of stories engulfing trump's epa chief in scandal. >> scott pruitt, do you support