i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. msnbc live. i'll see you at noon eastern. right now it's time for "am joy." she's hanging out in l.a. today. >> i appreciate you doing that. he were kind enough to offer this interview because of our shared interest in baseball. a lot of other issues we want to get to. you ran a minor league baseball team. how did that prepare you for this job? >> baseball is a great business. they have a lot of revenue streams, but not the payroll. it's a great business model. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy."

when you're a republican cabinet member and down on your luck, perhaps you're under an ethics cloud, the go-to strategy is to go to the well, to run to the friendly republican media confines of fox news. that may have been what epa administrator scott pruitt had in mind when he sat for an interview with fox this week amid his many scandals. it all started out okay with that slow opening pitch over home plate from fox news reporter ed henry. but then things pretty much went downhill. >> is draining the swamp renting an apartment from the wife of a washington lobbyist? >> i don't think that's even remotely fair to ask that question. >> okay. so why did you then accept $50 a night to rent a condo from the wife of a washington lobbyist. >> let's talk about that. that's something, again that has been reviewed by officials here. they said it's market rate. >> you're renting it from the rife of a lobbyist. >> strike one.

turns out fox did want pruitt to explain how he came to rent a room at a luxury d.c. condo from an energy lobbyist's wife for 50 bucks a night. he was still behind on his rent, overstayed his welcome and had the locks changed on him. pruitt was also asked to explain why two of his aides got huge raises after the white house turned those raises down. pruitt's explanation? -- >> they're friends of yours. >> they serve an important person. >> you didn't know they got these large pay raises. >> i did not, until yesterday. >> really? your key staff got huge raises, you had no idea until the day before your would-be job saving interview? strike two. this is just the tip of the iceberg for pruitt. we know he demanded to use his car's sirens and lights to get through d.c. traffic in nonemergencies. sidelined epa officials who questioned his spending. used taxpayer money for work trips that were more like

vacations. spent $3 million on round the clock security including installing a sound-proof phone booth in his office. the list goes on and on. pretty sure we're now out of strikes. now 64 democratic members of congress are demanding that trump fire scott pruitt. at least three republicans have joined them. those demands may be falling on deaf ears. >> i think that scott has done a fantastic job. i think he's a fantastic person. i just left -- i just left coal and energy country. they love scott pruitt. they feel strongly about scott pruitt. they love scott pruitt. >> is it the bottom of the ninth for mr. pruitt? joining me is david k. johnston author of "its even worse than you think." david, you have scott pruitt

living for $50 a night, but even ed henry was not buying that on fox news. they did a good interview with him, they were tough on him. politico reporting that the lobbyist land lady had to change the locks on pruitt. that the arrangement was only supposed to be temporary, but he overstayed his welcome. he's being called the kato kalen of washington. your thoughts? >> scott pruitt is clearly a man who doesn't have a moral compass. he has a long history of these kinds of improprieties. somehow on the very modest income of an oklahoma state legislator he lived a much better lifestyle than you would expect on $34,000 a year, and as attorney general when his only income was a quarter mile ona year salary, he got a mortgage for more than $650,000.

scott pruitt is a man who in any previous administration, even the scandal-plagued ronald reagan administration with 130 or so major scandals would have been fired yesterday. >> yeah. >> but the leader of this club is a plan himself who spent his life cheating, swindling, lying. so what's the problem. >> the problem is that even republicans are looking into it. scott pruitt, you mentioned his time as attorney general in oklahoma. a senior editor at "reveal newsyt new news"who covered pruitt, said he had hundreds of complains, filed employee. pru pruitt did not state what he spent on attorneys, he never produced reports on who was paying lawsuits.

three campaign committees tied to pruitt were spending 36,000 a month on travel. it goes on and on. now that he's in the epa, which he used to sue, he took first class military charter flights that cost taxpayers $136,000 in the first year, sound-proof phone booth, 43,000. david, the last time i was on tv with you, you mentioned there's more to this arrangement, the $50 a night lobbyist apartment than meets the eye. it also has to do with him potentially selling his land lady's wares. explain that a bit. >> sure. the export of liquefied natural gas, where we take natural gas, shrink it down to 1/600th of its size by freezing it, it's a big business in the world. the u.s. has one company that wants to get into it. a company whose actions will be regulated by the energy department, not the epa. scott pruitt takes $40,000 of

your and my money to go to morocco, where he basically is on vacation. he does have some meetings to promote the sales to morocco of liquefied natural gas by the company represented by his landlord's spouse as a lobbyist. one way to look at this is the biggest l & g exporter in the world is qatar. they have 29% of the world market. this would be setting up co competition with them, at time when the trump administration is attacking qatar because it appears the qataris would not give a loan to bail out jared kushner's purchase of an office building at 666 5th avenue in new york. we know that after the loan was turned down, and jared kushner tried to use his official position to help his family, however subtly he thinks that

was done, that lo and behold donald trump suddenly is on the offensive against qatar. >> interesting. we do know that carl icahn, who apparently recommended him for the job, does he have interest in this liquefied natural gas business? >> i don't know. he may. i haven't looked into that. fundamentally, when you look at scott pruitt, you're not looking at someone who has ethical boundaries. he's not at all like most of us who go, oh, that's not mine. i can't take that. this is a guy who would have no problem taking the pie off the window sill. if necessary, apparently arguing, well, because the window wasn't locked, he could lift it and pick the pie out of the window. this man is seriously morally deficient. he should be gone yesterday. >> yet he remains. david, stay with me. i want to bring in my panel.

joining me is kurt bardella and betsy woodruff. kurt, you used to work for, back when you were a hill staffer, darrell issa who made it his business to investigate democrats for various things that he thought they were doing wrong. what do you make of what's going on? there's new reporting from abc news this week that pruitt's morocco trip, he rented a room in the chairman of williams & jensen, which i believe is a lobbyist. carl icahn associates is the largest institutional holder in this company that exports liquefied natural gas. now several are calling for the internal watchdog to look in at one of his missions while there, promoting liquefied natural gas. two of the clients had lobbyists

working on issues tied to l & g. he seems to have been in morocco selling one profit ducts of his land lady's client. what would darrell issa back in the day have done if an obama administration official had done the same? >> if we had anything remotely close as to how flagrant the conflict of interest is here, we would have waited for subpoenas immediately. we would have done it that day. scheduled a congressional hearing. scott pruitt would be in front of our committee within the next five days answering questions about what went wrong and why. who signed off on this. who knew what when. why have officials been assigned somewhere else, demoted. the idea of renting a room from a lobbyist who also has donated money to your previous political efforts, who has fund-raisers at this location for other members of congress and political action committees, who has a lobbying firm that represents business that very much intersects with

your jurisdiction, all of this is flagrant abuse, conflict of interest, and if -- troy gowdy is out on this great book tour with tim scott, i wish he would do his job and do what darrell issa would have done, issue subpoenas, get a hearing and answer questions. >> not only do you have scott pruitt apparently living the high life, as many cabinet officials have been doing, ben carson, steve mnuchin. so he's just one of several people accused of living high on the log hog in doing their government job. he also defied the white house. the white house said you cannot give raises to these staffers. so he reappointed them under another authority and gave them raises. yet donald trump is fom loeg ll the "wall street journal" advice remaining loyal to pruitt, saying because he's doing things like repealing the clean power

plan, essentially freeing polluters to do whatever it is they want to do, ending fuel economy standards, that as long as he's dismantling the epa, they should let him do what he wants. is that the advice the white house is following? >> my understanding is the white house has no appetite whatsoever for trying to get a fourth cabinet secretary confirmed. there's a vacancy at veterans affairs, at the state department, the nominee for the director of cia will have a tough time getting through confirmation. this white house doesn't want to spend every last ounce on its political capital trying to get the president's cabinet to function properly. so they're looking for reasons not to have to fire scott pruitt and demand his resignation. perhaps the most impactful mistake that pruitt made is defying the white house. i can tell you that within the white house proper there's not a

lot of affection for scott pruitt. he's viewed as one who is less than honest, less than candid, less than forth righforthright. swo among the white house staff, there's a lot of frustration and a lot of resentment. at the same time these outside voices, including the "wall street journal," including upwards of 100 conservative movement leaders who called for the president to keep scott pruitt in place, those voices are powerful. they're marshaling all their forces to try to persuade the president and the voices in congress to defend scott pruitt so there's a battle royale, if you will. what i would think is going to be the case is if nothing else breaks, if things stay exactly as they are now, scott pruitt might manage to be okay. if there's one more big story, one more impactful new piece of information that we get about pruitt, he will be in big

trouble. one thing i can tell you is that white house officials believe there's probably going to be more where this whole can of worms came from. >> betsy, is there anything to the reporting, nbc news on friday reported that multiple administration officials say not only is donald trump thinking about standing by scott pruitt but getting rid of his current attorney general and, jeff sessions, and replacing him with scott pruitt. >> i can't speak directly to that. we know the president has been frustrated with jeff sessions. most of the time jeff sessions has been running the department of justice, trump has been frustrated by him, but i want tell you there's plans underway to put pruitt in sessions spot. pruitt is extremely ambitious. he made it clear he wanted sessions job. that could be part of the reason we're hearing this reporting, but i don't see a reason to believe pruitt is on the cusp of getting sessions job. it would almost be impossible to get him through confirmation

hearings. >> he wouldn't have to be confirmed, according to our constitution, because he's already been confirmed for the cabinet position he's in, he could actually just serve in an interim capacity, i believe for seven months. he could serve long enough to fire bob mueller me. >> i believe at some point this was something that donald trump wanted to do, but given all the information about scott pruitt and all his activities, there's no way he would do that. he even called this fake news. i think trump is boxed in now on not doing this. there's no way scott pruitt will end up surviving this. more will come out. trump will get asked why do you keep staying with this when you know there's been wrongdoing, a waste of taxpayer dollars, this goes against everything you campaigned on, draining the swamp, that lobbyists would not be running the washington establishment, this is the focal point of what we're talking

about. nobody hates more being upstaged by an aide or subordinate than donald trump. >> david, donald trump's base does not care about draining the swamp or whether his cabinet members have champagne wishes and caviar dreams. i wonder if you draw a line between what donald trump is doing and this oligarchs that he admires. this is putin-like. >> this is the kind of world that donald trump believes we should live in. he believes he's the superior person and he should be running everything. why would you think otherwise? given the opportunity, he will do so. the real danger is we had a breakdown of the checks and balances system from the electoral college to capitol hill which has failed to do its

basic fundamental job. >> indeed. thank you very much. up next, donald trump's latest stunt on the border. stay with us. ♪ ♪ from only the thickest, juiciest heinz tomatoes. no one grows ketchup like heinz™.

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this was going to be my remarks. it would have taken about two minutes. the hell with it. i use the word rape. yes, they have came out where

this journey coming up, women are raped at levels that nobody's ever seen before. we cannot let people enter our country. we have no idea who they are. we have no idea what their records are. we don't know if they're murderers, if they're killers, if they're ms-13. we're throwing them out by the hundreds. donald trump ditched his prepared remarks on tack refox on thursday and went on a rant on immigration. after he didn't get the money for his border wall that mexico was supposed to pay for but that trump wanted funded by you in the latest spending bill trump announced this week he will deploy members of the national guard to the u.s./mexico border. last night that plan was set in motion when james mattis approved sending up to 4,000 national guard troops to the border through september. joining my is jimmy gomez of california. thank you for being here.

>> thank you for having me. >> i would think as a member of the natural resources committee and government reform committee you would be aware if there was a crisis in surges of criminal activity at the u.s./mexico border. you are here in california, a border state. is there a crisis at the u.s. southern border requiring national guard troops? >> not at all. apprehensions on the southern border are at an all-time low. we had about 300,000 in 2017. i think that donald trump views and gets his news from fox news, and he saw this piece about a caravan. that caravan, he's using it as an excuse to mobilize national troops, because he failed to get his wall. >> we have data this says apprehensions on the border are up. 2017, 23,555. february 2018, 36,695. is that a function of i.c.e.

agents or -- >> it's only an increase because it's been at a historic low. it's been at a low for 45 years. in george bush's time when he sent troops to the border, there was about a million apprehensions on average. this is a manufactured crisis so he can kind of play to his base, get more red meat to the people that voted for him. >> >> as somebody on government oversight and reform, if donald trump is using sending u.s. national guard troops who have to be paid. it will cost money to deploy them. spending american tax dollars for a talking point for fox news and his base, is that something your committee wants to look into? >> i think we should. i think we should look into a lot of the decisions this administration has made. it's not based on facts. it's based on campaign promises meant to dried tivide the count

up his poll numbers. you have the national guard saying personnel will not perform law enforce. activities or interact with my grants, or other persons detained by dhs personnel without your approval, arming will be limited to circumstances that might require self-defense. all they can do observe. what do you make of the idea now you have this question of arming them? >> it's definitely not necessary. in the past a lot of it has been in support of the border patrol and their actions. a lot of it is observing and reporting. any idea of arming them is completely not necessary. >> let me let you listen to the dhs secretary on whether or not customs and border officers would be armed. this is from thursday. >> will they be armed?

>> armed or unarmed? >> we are working -- what i would like to hear from the governors is what it is they want. that's not anything we have propos proposed. we want to get to border security. so we'll do everything we can to do it until and when congress acts. >> so she wants to hear from the governors. let's hear from one. governor kate brown of oregon. take a listen. i'll read it. if donald trump asks me to deploy oregon national guard troops to the mexico border, i'll say no. i'm deeply troubled by trump's plan to militarize our border. does the governor of california concur with governor brown or secretary nelson? >> i think governor brown. i think he's looking at everything. one, a true crisis, he needs so send national guards. two, what's the scope of their work. are they going to be enforcing. three, who will pay for it. it's not going to be mexico, right? that's a big, big issue.

when will it end. i think governor brown will take a hard look. i encourage him to oppose it. >> who will pay for it. the house of representatives is the only appropriator of money under the u.s. constitution. it does seem that donald trump is getting away with a lot in terms of spending money that congress is supposed to oversee. the leadership in congress, which is on the other side of the aisle, where is congress? >> we should be stepping up. the chair of the oversight committee said the other day i have not done anything in my seven years in congress. now is his time. he is not running for re-election. let's take some steps to hold this administration accountable, protect our democracy and make sure taxpayer money is not wasted. that's what he tried to do when obama was in office. why can't he hold the trump administration to the same standards. >> if democrats took back the house and elijah cummings were

chair, would things be different? >> very different. we would have hearings on the epa administrator, trump's border wall. you name it, we would look into every aspect of this administration. >> thank you very much. coming up, mueller zeros in on obstruction of justice. that's next. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country,

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probably nobody's been tougher to russia than donald trump. >> there's nobody been tougher on russia. nobody's been tougher on russia than i have. and you can -- i know you're nodding yes, because everyone agrees when they think about it. >> everyone totally agrees. even special counsel robert mueller, right? this week, we learned that mueller is continuing to investigate the president, even though at present he's a subject of the investigation, not a target. the "washington post" is reporting that mueller is working on a detailed report of his findings, starting with the question of obstruction of

justice. joining me is renato mariotti. renato, there's been some interesting advice given to donald trump, who is a subject, not a target. we'll have a discussion about that in a moment. in was some interesting advice given what everyone else has been saying what donald trump should do. >> have nothing to hide, sit down -- assuming a fair prosecutor, and i think mueller s sit down, tell him what you know. >> is that a dangerous suggestion when you talk about donald trump? >> yes, it is a dangerous suggestion. it's not clear to me that president trump doesn't have something to hide. i would -- i'm not his attorney. i don't know all of his secrets. certainly the fact that he's a subject of a criminal investigation means he's in vericy can't -- very significant

jeopardy. we know donald trump does not have a close relationship with the truth. that's always a problem when you talk to law enforcement, that can be a crime. we've seen that in this investigation. a number of people have been charged with a crime. if i represented donald trump, i would tell him to keep his mouth shut, decline the interview. if he's subpoenaed, take the fifth. >> and as a prosecutor, what is the difference between someone being a subject and someone being a target? >> a subject means that you -- your conduct is part of the investigation, that you're under investigation. when we say under investigation, that means you're a subject. it's not a good thing. that is a pretty broad category. anyone under investigation is a subject. target means that the prosecutor made up their mind they'll pursue charges against the person or they're likely to do that. you usually don't have that determination until late in the investigation. prosecutors at a different

point, they have slightly different practices about when they make that determination. typically it's not like you have a chart in your office or an alarm bell that goes off when someone becomes a target. usually what happens is the defense will ask you for what's called a nontarget letter, saying my client is not a target. the reality is, i'll tell you now, i'm on the other side. i represent clients who are being investigated. all defense attorneys know a nontarget letter is not worth the paper it's printed on. the prosecutor can change their mind at any point. ultimately they can decide -- for example, now donald trump is not a target. if he gives an interview and lies or gives evidence that adds to what mueller is saying, he can quickly become a target. that doesn't give you much comfort. >> nick, the question that -- lawrence o'donnell and i were talking about this on his show the other day. let's say donald trump decides

he doesn't want to give an interview with mueller, and mueller says oh, but you will. and he's subpoenaed. donald trump says i don't recognize that subpoena. this is a president whose behavior is different as president of the united states. he doesn't follow convention. who would force him to comply with the subpoena ordering him to do an interview with robert mueller? >> a federal district court judge. >> how would they enforce it? >> at that point they would make a motion to hold donald trump in contempt. the question would be what would the federal district court judge do in terms of a remedy? normally a person who refuses to testify before a grand jury winds up being incarcerated for the time period of the grand jury, which can be up to 18 months. so one way to enforce it is to have donald trump taken by the federal marshals and put in federal prison until he testifies. what if he refuses to open the

white house door? what if he fires any secret service agent who would allow the federal marshals in? what if donald trump decides i don't have to follow the law. i refuse to be held under the law. no marshal can get into this white house, and secret service agent who defies me is fired. >> at some point he has to come out of the white house and leave. the u.s. marshals will be directed to take him into custody, bring him before the federal district court judge. he'll be basically told either he goes in and he testifies or he takes the fifth amendment. if he takes the fifth amendment, there's not a problem. if he refuses to answer on the ground that a truthful answer would tend to incriminate him, he has the right to do that. if he does that, there's no contempt. if he doesn't do that, he can be directed to go directly to jail, do not pass go. do not collect $200. end of story. >> i wonder -- i ask these

questions because there is a finding in the department of justice that a sitting president can't be indicted. i wonder if donald trump decides he doesn't recognize the authority of any of these investigators, i think that's when you get to what we generally used to call a constitutional crisis. >> it's also a question of the rule of law as to whether he'll follow it and how far the judiciary will go. i would think the judiciary is meaningless unless they can enforce grand jury sub pie subu subpoena s subpoenas. >> it and there is a fraction of media who would do this. >> they have to follow the law what would happen is if he refused to testify, he would be ordered to appear before a

federal district court judge. if he didn't do that, they would issue a bench warrant. the marshals would bring him before the federal district court judge. he would be ordered to testify or to assert his fifth amendment privilege. >> betsy, let's go to you. donald trump seems to have started to remove people from his presence who don't want him to testify. he seems to want to. what's your reporting on the current thinking in the white house on blorwhether or not wano go before robert muellerment. >> it's significant that bowed is no longer working for the legal team. dowd simultaneously supported the mueller probe. he encouraged the president to take a hands-off approach, let mueller run his course. dowd praised mueller when mueller indicted those 13 russians a month or two ago. at the same time dowd was an opponent of the president speaking to mueller. dowd leaving is significant.

that said i can tell you that right now the person who is largely responsible for all of the negotiating with mueller, the new john dowd, if you will, is jay secculo. not just playing second fiddle on the president's legal time. sometimes his role is understated because he doesn't have experience with criminal law. he's the power broker. he is the person with the keys to the car. and we know he's been skeptical of the mueller probe. he's taken a more hostile tone to the probe than dowd has. he makes appearances on radio programs where people in his organization have believed there's a deep state conspiracy theory to take down president trump. so the fact that he's the person that is now president trump's lead outside lawyer is probably also evidence that it's less likely that the president will sit down with mueller. my guess is that secculo thinks about the prospect of the president speaking to mueller

similarly to the way dowd would have. even though president trump is not currently a target according to the post report, sitting down with mueller is perilous. it doesn't matter if you're the pit or president of the united states or a low-level figure. this past week someone was sentenced for the sole crime that he lied to bob mueller. we know the president has a pension to say things that don't line up with reality. if he were to sit down with mueller he would be putting himself in a significantly legally risky position. and his attorney knows that. >> indeed. thank you very much. very enlightening segment. thank you all. coming up in the next hour, stormy daniels attorney michael avenatti will be here joining me on set in l.a. this morning he tweeted expect a major announcement in the coming

days regarding our efforts to identify the thug who threatened misclifford miss clifford in 2011 to leave trump alone while making reference to her little girl. you can run but you can't hide. cannot wait to ask him about all of that. over the years, paul and i have met regularly with our ameriprise advisor. we plan for everything from retirement to college savings. giving us the ability to add on for an important member of our family. welcome home mom. with the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant.

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>> i actually have communicated with assange. >> no, i have not spoken with mr. assange. i have not met with mr. assange. i never said i had. >> roger stone should probably get his story straight. this week the "wall street journal" reported that robert mueller is looking into stone's 2016 claim that he met with julian assange. on all 4th of that year, stone wrote in his e-mail to sam nunnberg saying i dined with my new pal julian assange last night. stone said he was only joking. on the same day he sent that e-mail stone offered this prediction to infowars. >> let's remember that their defense in all the clinton

foundation scandals has been not we didn't do it, has been you have no proof. yes, but you have no proof. well, i think julian assange has that proof. and i think allegedly hacked e-mails. i never received anything from wikileaks, julian assange including allegedly hacked e bh -- e-mailed and passed them onto

donald trump. >> this is the timeline between jojer stone and wikileaks that you and i are familiar with. the next day he tweets hillary lies. three days later on august 8th, he tells a republican group, i have kmocommunicated with assan. he said it will soon be pedesta time in the barrel. >> the beautiful thing about roger stone is he really wanted, during that period of time, to be the person who knew everything. the dirty tricks guy that he claims that he was like undernixon. he wanted to be a player. i think last night when he was talking to anderson cooper, he finally told the truth.

he didn't know anything directly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know anything indirectly. it's quite possible he did dine with julian assange. he could have done it by facetime and maybe he didn't get things directly from julian assange. it was passed on by other people. i think he's bitten more than he can chew. >> here is sam nunberg on the beat. this is march 29th. >> i think he'll just say, look, he won't say he was lying. he'll say i was joking as he's trying to say. the joke is on me because that's why i called in by mueller's special counsel. >> was it a joke? >> that's not the way i recollect it. that's not the way i recall it. >> is that a no? >> was it a joke to me?

>> was it a joke? >> i don't think it was a joke. >> that's exactly what roger stone has claimed. he was only joking with sam nunberg. what's the significance either way of whether or not roger stone knew in advance what wikileaks was going to do? >> you know i've said this from a very long time ago that the trump campaign did not have one dirty tricks team related to this effort. i think there are multiple dirty tricks teams. i think roger stone set himself up and may have promised people he could work with other people and get information that he probably couldn't. the significance is he is now net deep in the mueller investigation. if he thinks he's not going to be questioned again, that his coherts, like i said nunberg is not going to tear his life apart, he's going to end up

being a perjurer or a phenomenal liar. >> congress passes legislation. they disban a key state department and all of a sudden this past week they do some pretty serious sanctions. among the list of individual targets, seven oligarchs. 12 companies owned by oligarchs. we were just talking about roger stone. let gee let's go to paul manafort. he offered to privately brief him while campaign manager.

a government official, he's the departmenty governor of the central bank of russia. he's been accused of having ties to organized crime. he's a lifetime nra member. he approached the trump campaign about setting up a meeting between putin and trump. jared kushner instructed the campaign not to respond. what's the significance of these sanctions and could it then put president trump in jeopardy of having whatever russia has on him exposed? >> i was really shocked by these sanctions in is what we thought the united states should do after the weapon of mass destruction attack inside of britain. i think this is another circumstance of where the united states, call it the deep state, if you will, but it's actually the white house is being channelled into actions that donald trump personally doesn't want to do but to maintain the alliance that we have with the

united kingdom and our nato allies, we're having to go after the siem peopame people they're after. it's a question of whether vladmir putin will find this angry. we're talking the richest pea ee in russia that donald trump met with. whether they will see him as a trader or allowing his white house to do it, we're going to find out if tapes or something like that suddenly appears then you'll know the kremlin will not approve of this. >> it cannot be good news for donald trump who does not want to anger vladmir putin. the american businessman kicked out of russia who loblied is saying these are great. when trump is on the same side

as bill broward, look for tapes if they've got them. we have some breaking news this morning. police have confirmed that a vehicle was driven into a small ground in germany. 30 people are injured. no indication on fatalities as of yet. the alleged suspect has committed suicide on the scene. donald trump may have just handed stormy daniels a check mate. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. ai had a lot on my mind. could this happen again?

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owe about the $130,000 payment to staormy daniels? why did michael cohen say this if there was no truth. >> you have to ask michael co n cohen. he's my attorney and you'll have to ask him? >> do you know where he got the money in. >> i don't know. >> good morning and welcome back. after months of silence and endless tweeting about any and everything, donald trump finally broke his silence on stormy daniels in an attempt to distance himself for hushed money. trump denied any knowledge of the payment made by the lawyer michael cohen. it may have made things worse for himself, at least our next guest seems to think so. >> we waited patient ly how can

you have when with r one party. these guys are making it up as they go along. they don't know what to say from day in and day out. our case just got a whole lot letter. >> joining me now is the attorney representing stormy daniels. thanks for being here. >> morning. >> walk us through. why is it that donald trump denying that he knew about the payment, something his team has been saying. why did that change the case and how did it change the case? >> our position has opinion consistent for the last month or more and that is there is no nda, there is no agreement. one of the reasons is because donald trump did not sign it. he didn't know about it, according to his claims, which we don't believe. you can't have an agreement between my client and donald trump if he never even knew about the agreement.

up until a few days ago, he showed great restraint and showed discipline. we knew that with never going to last. lo and behold he cracked on thursday and made the statements on air force one. as a result, we don't think there's any question there is no agreement. the nda is thrown out the window. >> you're a pretty good lawyer. how long have you been practicing law? >> 18 years. >> i want to ask you some questions in the way it works between an attorney and a client. would you or have you ever, as an attorney, out of your fund, paid a claim for one of your clients? >> no. in fact, there's bar rules that prohibit exactly that. you're not allowed to do that as a lawyer, as an attorney for a client. the explanation that we've heard from michael cohen through his spokesperson, it's absurd. it's not believable. attorneys don't do that for clients. they're not allowed to do it for clients. >> this is his statement in

february. in a private transaction in 2016. i used my own funds to facilitate a payment of 130,000 there to stephanie clifford. i wasn't reimbursed directly nor indirectly. if you do work for a client, you bill them? >> correct. >> have you ever created an llc. if you create it for them, do you bill for that in. >> absolutely. >> would you do that on your own without being asked to? >> no. i wouldn't do that without telling the client. let me tell you a couple of things that's interesting about this statement. i think the statement is full of what we call lawyer speak. first of all, it talks about facilitating a payment. why not just say he made the payment as opposed to

facilitate. it makes it sound like he did it for someone else. that's number one. number two, what he says is he wasn't reimbursed directly from the trump organization or mr. trump. he doesn't say he was wasn't reimbursed by some other third party. let me touch on this point because i think it's an important one and i don't think it's been made lately or at least maybe even at all. let's assume that michael cohen, for the sake of argument, did this out of his own pocket and never was reimbursed for it. at a minimum, he would have told donald trump that he had done it. why would he have done that? he would have wanted the chips with donald trump. he would have wanted donald trump to know. i did you this solid in connection with the campaign. therefore, you owe me a little bit. the idea that he didn't get reimbursed and donald trump wasn't made aware of it is absurd. >> then there's the other part that's weird.

the making up a fake name. if the lawyer created a fake name for his client. can that fake name bind his client and the person he has the nda with if donald trump doesn't know david denson existed? >> no. it's not even close. >> what they're trying to argue is the fake person, is donald trump but donald trump doesn't know david dennison exists and yet stephanie is bound to david. >> there's no question donald trump knew about this agreement, knew about the negotiation and knew about the payment. i believe that it was prior to the election. it was contemporaneous with all of this conduct occurring. if it wasn't, it was most certainly shortly thereafter. there are significant issues that arise from that from a campaign perspective. donald trump's comments on air force one created huge

liability. this got far more complicated on thursday. >> can you depose michael cohen? >> we're going to make a motion on monday. we're going to renew the motion we filed to take the deposition of michael cohen and donald trump. the judge found he was premature because they have not filed a motion to compel arbitration. they have done so. i'm highly confident the motion will be granted. we're asking for a two hour deposition of bhimichael cohen the president. we're allowed seven hours. i think we only need two. if we get depositions that we're going to get to the bottom of this and the prior statements that have been made to the american public are not going to hold up. >> if you're able to depose the president of the united states under the precedent we saw with the monica lewinsky or paula,

jones. could they be made public or concealed? >> it could be concealed if the judge found it was good grounds for that. because of the intense public interest in the case, we would fight that. we believe it should be an open process. the people should learn the facts on both sides and can judge for themselves. >> you tweeted this morning something very intriguing. i expect a major announcement to identify the thug who threatened miss clifford in 2011. you can run but you can't hide. this is one of the bombshell revelations in the 60 minutes interview. do you know the name? >> i'm not at liberty to get into the details quite yet. what i will say is this, we have worked di eed diligently to ide this individual.

we're continuing that process as i sitz here right now. it was a significant threat. it was a physical threat. it involved her young daughter at the time. it was not some minor thing. that threat would have only come from a handful of places and we're pretty certain that we know where it came from and, again, we're going to get to the bottom of that and making an announcement in the coming days. we're not going to stop. not next week, next month or next year until we get to the bottom of what happened here. >> was stephanie clifford afraid of donald trump at the time she signed that? >> i think she was intimidate and fearful for her safety and the safety of her little girl. i think she attested to that. >> why does she seem some unafraid now in. >> i think she reached the point where a number of things were said about her earlier this year and she feels empowered and

feels like she can talk openly. she's not going to continue to be intimidated. i think she found a lot of courage. this is a very dedicated woman. she's dedicated to the truth. period. >> she told her story. the 60 minutes interview was pretty comprehensive. the trump side has said that your side, that miss clifford owes donald trump $20 million. what's the status of that case? >> they haven't yet made the r formal claim. it's difficult to enforce a million dollar liquidated damage clause in an agreement that you claim you didn't know anything about? these guys are making it up as that go along. all of these threats about they will take my client's house and take everything she's worth, and will go on an extended vacation with the money. they are threatening an american citizen that if she tells the

truth, they will bury her. that's not going happen any time soon. >> would you ever have an client enter an agreement but not have them sign it? >> it's never happened in my career. i can't imagine it. it makes no sense. this explanation that we heard from david schwartz speaking on behalf of michael cohen. it makes no sense. that makes absolutely no sense. this is weeks following the tape from the access hollywood. how much business reputation and family was there left to protect. the whole thing makes no sense. it's going to fall apart. it's already started to fall apart. >> we want to know what's on that tape.

>> we're continuing to vet them. we're going to be very, very careful before we agree to represent anyone beyond miss clifford. there's a whole reason as to why we're going to be careful with that. any time you have a story of this magnitude, people come out the wood work. we're going to cross every t and dot every i like we did with miss clifford. >> thank you for being here. thank you. next up, the never again movement is coming to a congressional district near you. stay with us.

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we're going to ask you to create town halls and inviets their congressmen. if he resist to come, invite their opponent. >> seven weeks after surviving a deadly school shooting, stunts from marjory stoneman douglas high school are turning their attention to elected officials at local town halls today. congress are on a two week break and likely to be in their home district. paul ryan did hold a town hall. it was closed door and not in his district. rather far away if ft. worth, texas. it was not about gun reform but about paul ryan's most favoritest thing. tax cuts for the rich.

the parkland students, have scheduled do ed donz dozens of malls but many will have empty chairs. scott, you have the disadvantage of now being at the table with us. paul ryan not holding town halls at home. going all the way to texas to hold town halls about tax cuts. what does that say to you? >> well, joy, thanks for having me. it's been 915 days since paul ryan held a town hall here in the state of wisconsin. the reason he's not holding these is because the environment is hostile for republicans currently, politically. republicans like ryan think they is bury their head in the sand

and wait for it to ride out. the progressives are going to go out and vote and stick it to the bullies at the nra. p paul ryan is the top dog played dead and rolled over for the nra. >> paul ryan is known for wanting texwant ing tax cuts and more tax cuts. he isn't known for a pro-gun advocate. he's thought of as a koch brothers product. how bum bed with the nra is he? >> he raised some of the most money out of any member of congress in the last session. we have seen no piece of legislation, common sense gun safety legislation pass under paul ryan's leadership. we know that here in the state of wisconsin there's a number of politicians held hostage to the nra doing their bidding and paul ryan is 100% one of them.

he's been at the fore front of blocking all federal sense gun reform legislation. >> let me come to the table. david hogg tweeted everyone should call for a town hall with your representative on april 7. it should be two hours. call your rep today to organize. if they refuse to show up, inviei invite their opponent. they tweeted the parkland -- they are partnering with the parkland students. student organizers planned over 10 to 100 town halls in 13 days. congress hasn't been able to plan one in 15 months. the teens seem to be showing the adults the way to conduct civics. >> absolutely and that's right. the parkland teens and joined with teens around the country is

leading the way with this. my congresswoman nancy pelosi has town halls and people who are for gun safety can have town halls to convene on how we deal with violence prevention. we've been wearing these rainbow bracelets for two years. i would just say the kids are leading. they can take a lesson from the adults. it took us a while after sandy hook to be truly intersectional. there's a lot of white women's tears being shed but they were washing away the black women who had been taking the lead for a long time. in san francisco, our lead is a black woman who has been doing this healing work for over ten years. i think it's important that the kids lead but take a listen and listen to all the voices. >> i want to get into that.

are democrats taking advantage of the places where republicans not showing up? one of criticisms is they don't jump in on the politics. you have devin nunes invited to do a town hall. he's not planning on attending. are democratic opponents of these guys or democratic congressmen from neighboring districts going into those town halls in. >> they are. helped pass a ban on preds toir givers including not taking money from the pacts to which they contribute. with the dnc on the side of no nra and most of our democratic candidates pledging not to take their money were not only talking the talk but walking the walk. >> you do see democrats who after the 1994 midterms were afraid of the nra and quaked and fear of them really kicks away from them as the nra singhing in

pop -- kisinking in popularity. how effective have the parkland students been at making that argument? >> i think they have been effective. some students from their own high school have spoken up and said we have some other concerns that this march for our lives movement is not addressing. we need to be all included. with that said, i think they have made an extraordinary effort in light of past movements to include the concerns of marginalized communities. >> there's 118 people shot and killed in the milwaukee area last year and 21 this year. there's a lot of people in that area within his district that have concerns about gun violence that he should be speaking to and instead he's speaking to his true constituency, the people in

texas on the return team. >> are you seeing the issue of gun reform start to percolate on the ground among rank and file voters? >> certainly. i was in sacramento reporting about the afterma of the stephon clark shooting. in the marches people were not just demanding accountability for the police officers involved in that incident but also for gun reforms. they understand that police violence is gun violence. they understand this is all intertwined. definitely people are pushing for broader reforms using this moment to push for broad reforms they have long been wanting and needing. >> absolutely. we had a shooting in my neighborhood in brooklyn where the nypd killed man mentally challenged, ten shots.

>> the police that shoot first and think after and what happened in your neighborhood the very next day. you had a question of not deescalating. we have to go deeper into that. we have to go into bias. we have to talk about what makes it reasonable to fear a black person and it would not be reasonable to fear a white person. if we don't deconstruct racism right at the training and right at the root we're not going to get it. i also want to say that no matter who shoots you, you're a medicaid patient. when we talk about paul ryan, not only has he blocked common sense gun reforms like the background checks. let's agree on the things that we agree on like background checks but he's slashing medicaid. those parents of children who were killed, they're on medicaid. those people who were shot and recovering, they're on medicaid. when you slash medicaid, you're slashing any hope for recovery for these family who is are

victims. >> whether or not this sort of message is starting to resonate in janesville, in the congressional district where paul ryan is a congressman. he has been able to glide by because he's so providing so much largesse. i'm wondering if you're starting to see any cracks. are democrats saying we need to start voting on the basis of supreme court and maybe they might not be so great for us. >> i'll tell you this. we just did have a supreme court race here and progressives did something they haven't done since 1995. they elected a progressive justice who beat a man endorsed by the nra within hours of parkland shooting.

the challenge here is they have a three and a half million dollar insurance policy to stopping common sense gun reform and his name is scott walker. the nra registered on 11 bills in the state. it allows toddlers to go out and hunt. i guess the adage of you stop a bad boogie man with a toddler in the woods with a shotgun is bearing fruit here in the state of wisconsin. there's definitely a backlash. not only did the progressive win that election, she won it by 12 points in a spring election that is usually whiter, conservative, older and maler. >> very quick lightning round. do demonstrans win the house?

>> i believe they will win the house and believe they will pass a bill but won't get through the senate. >> i believe in the kids. we're going to win the house, senate and pass common sense gun reforms. >> scott, does paul ryan get re-elected? >> i think paul ryan has a substantial challenge to getting re-elected. i think the house top dog is going out. i think people are tired of his nonsense. >> all right. thank you very much. coming up, our moment of maxine. that's next. is and clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific

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places like california, the same person votes many times. you probably about that. they like to say that's a conspiracy theory. it's not a conspiracy theory. millions and millions of people. >> okay. that's not true. joining me now for your moment of maxine is california congressman maxine waters. >> so good to have you here in california.

just love it when you're in los angeles. >> same here because it's a lot warmer and you're here. let's start. let's go through everything. donald trump making these claims about immigrants and going back to his immigrants are rapists, mexicans are rapists. california, huge boarder state. what is this about? is there any truth to this idea there are swarms of rapists and criminals? >> absolutely not. everybody knows this president is a liar. he will just say anything. he has no documentation for that. no one has reported that to him. he's continuing with this business of these immigrants are coming to our country and they're causing us problems. they are taking the jobs and costs the government money. he has to continue this kind of talk as he dog whistles to his constituency. >> at the same time his constituency is located in a lot of state where is this trade war

is starting with california is really going to fight. farmers here are now bracing for real hit. >> absolutely. we export billions of dollars in almonds and wine. they are really worried. he keeps saying he's knot creno creating this trade war and he is. he's annoyanuncing more and mor tarif tariffs. going to hurt a lot of folks and cause a lot of lost of jobs. >> again, i think we come right back to this question. where is congress? the spoker of the houeaker of t texas not even holding a meeting in his district? >> that's a good question now.

some of the republicans are talking about the tariffs and the harm it's going to cause but they're not standing up. i think they are still intimidated about him. they are afraid of him. they don't have any guts and they're going to pay a price for this because this president has gone beyond what should be considered reasons for impeachment. >> this state also visit the environment very important here. very large coastline. you have the environmental protection agency under scott. what about his personal conduct. the things we're hearing about a scandal a day or two or three. what do you think? >> it's horrible. why is he getting away with this? he can talk about paying rent for $50 when he stays in this lobbyist home. this is outrageous. what about the money he spends on travel. what about the raises he's given flows even though he was advised by the white house not to do it.

it's outrageous. we don't know why he hasn't been fired. the president likes to fire but we think the president likes what he's doing with public policy. he's literally destroying everything that obama did. >> it does feel like california is at war with the trump administration. can california hold the line if congress cannot? >> california is tough. we have members of our legislature who are always thinking about ways by which to push back and to resist him. we think that he's taking it out on us because he did not win california. he does not like california and he's vindictive. our legislatures and jerry brown. >> is there anything congress can do about scott pruitt?

>> we should be holding hearings and demanding his dismissal. it's hard to get the runs to hold the hearings. the democrats will work with them any day of the week but they will not work with us. they are being irresponsible and not standing up against this president. we're still on the same issues we've always been on. we want clean air. we want clean water. we don't want to create trade wars. i mean we want to make sure we're protecting social security and medicare and obama care. i mean our issues are basically what we have been fighting for. what we have been working for and what we have been successful with. we have a great public policy program. this president wants to destroy all of that.

he just gets stuck on obama. he just wants to undo everything that the president had done. we're in a war continuous with them. the american people see what he's doing. the members of congress are not standing up but i and others are resisting. >> you are in a lot of ways the first lady of the resistance. people have taken your leadership to heart. i wonder if the democratic party is making it clear that the only way to hold him accountable is to change the congress. we always ask where is the congress. they don't understand people like you would love to be committee chairs. >> we believe we're on the right track. we believe we're going to take

back the house. that we're raising the money to do the work. we have good candidates and our d triple c, the congress of the united states we're on it. we have good staff. we're all over the country. we have the states working in cooperation with the dnc. i believe that we're going to be successful. >> we were just talking in a previous segment about guns. you're in the halls of congress. has the nra lost real power? >> no, but i want tell you i'm so thrilled about the young people and what they have done and what they are going to continue to do. i think there's going to be real spike in the voting. they're going to get to the polling places. they're going to be involved if these elections and they're going to change minds. i think they are going to change minds. some in their own families and communities. they're going to learn a lot about politicians.

how they think and how they work. they're going to call us out. i'm very optimistic about the ability to make change. i think the nra knows what it's up against. no matter how they try to pretend they have not intimidated by the young people. they're going to be put in a very bad place with these young people. the young people have no filters. they're going directly to them. i just love it. >> i try to cram everything in. let's talk about, we had stormy daniels lawyer on. so ironic this may be more immediate jeopardy for the president of the united states. if he's able to debtget a deposn for the president, will congress hush to have that released? >> some of us will. i spoke to the human rights

campaign about a month ago and at the end of my speech, i said, if our special counsel mueller does not get trump, stormy will. that was the end of my speech. i want to tell you, i'm watching what is happening. the president is going to get caught up in his lies. it is just unbelievable that he did not know about the pay off to stormy. i think he's going to get caught in this one. >> my last question on the mueller probe we were talking earlier, what will happen? what will congress will happen if donald trump refuse a subpoena from robert mueller? >> i think that will be crossing the line. i don't know if it's totally crossing the line, but i think we're going to have some republicans that will come out on that. he has gotten some warnings from a few of the republican who is are saying that is a red line. don't cross that. they have stood up for him not

as publicly as i would like them to but he has full support on the democratic side. if he refuses, i think that some are going to have to come out. they can't stick with him forever. it's either you're going to be about country and you're going to protect this democracy or you're going to go down with him. >> yeah. not everyone can be as vocal and forthright as congresswoman maxine waters. >> i love being here with you. thank you so much. >> thank you. if you don't already follow congresswoman maxnine waters on twitter, what are you doing? update, police have confirmed to nbc news that vehicle has driven to a small crowd in munster, germa germany. the alleged suspects has committed suicide on the scene. state update to with the latest.

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we fought for every state in this union. now, we're going to stay here and see that the things the mayor has said become a reality anniversary of martin luther king jr.'s assassination, the nation is taking a renewed look at the civil rights movement, a movement with many key players, including medgar evers, who was assassinated on the steps of his mississippi home after an naacp meeting on june 12th, 1963, five years before the murder of dr. king and of bobby kennedy. for more than a decade before his assassination, his wife fought for civil rights and voting rights in mississippi alongside him and she continued that advocacy after his death. she joins me now. it's such an honor to talk with you. >> ait's a pleasure. thank you. >> i'm particularly interested in your flexes reflections on w are, a few months after the

assassination happened, you were going to speak at the march. >> i was scheduled to be a speaker. there was two programs printed, one with my name as a speaker and one not. i was trying to get to the venue, could not make it in time. and that's one of the sorrows of my life, that i was not there. but my heart was there. and i have continued to work without ceasing before and since that time. >> i think that's one of the important points, because the women of the civil rights movement, the wives of some of these leaders whose names we know, their wives, we haven't recognized enough how much work yourself and coretta scott king. tell me what it was like to be living and working in

mississippi. >> needless to say, the reputation that the state has is mostly true. i would like to say that today i see changes being made, but there was an atmosphere of total fear. you never knew what was going to happen one day to the next. medici medgar was on the forefront. we knew his life was endangered, as was the rest of us. medgar and i had a very special relationship, one of deep love but one where i challenged his dedication to his work. i can recall him saying to me, do you believe in me? yes. do you love me? yes. well, let me do what i have to do and support me. so that was kind of the turning point in our marriage and in our life. i loved him dearly. i supported him. i knew what was going to happen, as he did.

i don't think you're ever prepared for something like that. and the night that -- the night before medgar was killed, we had a very teary conversation. and he told me, you take care of my children. i have done that, but i continue to carry his memory forth. i continue to do that to this day. i fight furiously so that he will be remembered for all he did and all he gave. >> sometimes people ask, what can i do, what can i do. voting is the fundamental right that generates all other rights. do you think that people have lost that message in the civil rights movement, they see the marches, they know the lunch counters. have people lost the zeal? the voting rights act has been gutted and we're sort of sitting here in suspended animation. >> i believe today that people are more aware of the need to

vote than perhaps ever before. if we look at our nation today and look at the top leadership, for those who are sensitive to the need of citizenship and being able to utilize that citizenship and contribute to it, we know we have more work to do now than we ever have before. i am beyond horrified and motivated more i think than i have ever been before to see that we recognize the value that we have in the vote, that we use it. and i am so encouraged about our young people today. i'm so enthusiastic. i want to say to them, yes, march, demonstrate, but vote and find a way to be active in your community to keep this movement going. we can't allow it to die off because of what is happening in the leadership of washington

today. that i am horrified about. that, at my age, at 85, i'm more vocal now i think than i have ever been. >> lastly, you've seen a lot of questions about whether or not the democratic party has sort of written off the south, where still the majority of african-americans live. alabama was a wake-up call that black voters, principally african-american women, have great power. could we see the sea change that we saw happen in alabama, happen in mississippi? >> yes. as a matter of fact i believe that my native state of mississippi is beginning to show the way for the rest of the country to move. we had a very interesting occasion a couple of weeks ago with the opening of the two mississippi museums, at which i said, separate and equal again? and then the president made a visit. and i have to say this, joy,

please. the man addressed me by my first name. >> the president did? >> the president addressed me by my first name. i was so angered by that, and i said, you don't realize the essence of what this country has been through, where we are, where we are going. you dismissed me by calling me by my first name and i did not give you permission to do so. i am mrs. my husband paid the price for that. so did martin luther king and everyone else. we have so much yet to do in this country. and i believe that our young people are beginning to show us the way again. >> absolutely. mrs. evers, a great civil rights leader. that's our show for today. stay with msnbc for the latest

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a very good day to all of you. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. here is what's happening right now. we have this breaking news to share from germany where a pickup truck has plowed into a crowd. the results are deadly. the question is, was it terror. we'll get to a report