or dental procedures. both made eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. tonight president trump confronts russia and china, two nations he hopes to win over, but now faces head on in a global game of chicken. plus, epa chief scott pruitt holds on, but for how long amid a slew of headlines about his spending? and later, surprise! you shared all your information on facebook, and now everyone can see it. mark zuckerberg is preparing to face congress. we'll talk to senator amee klobuchar who is set to question the tech billionaire.

but first tonight u.s. officials say north korea is willing to discuss denuclearization. russia is calling a chemical attack on syrian soil fake news. and china is locked in the opening rounds of what may become a full-blown trade war. and for real this time, the president is acting out a riff he used throughout his campaign, determining who is a friend and who is a foe. >> is that friend or foe? is that friend? friend or foe? friend or foe? he's friend. okay. i think he's friend. are you friend or foe? are they friends? friend or foe? friend or foe? friend. >> it's a choice the president has been disinclined to make where two men in particular are concerned, russian president vladimir putin and chinese president xi jinping. in a tweet sunday, president trump actually criticized vladimir putin. in this case, slamming putin's

backing of syrian dictator bashar al-assad. that's on top of the toughest sanctions yet of russian oligarchs. as for china, in spite of proposing 150 billion in tariffs and the opening shots of a trade war, the president tweeted, quote, president xi and i will always be friends, no matter what happens with our dispute on trade. and somewhere in all of this are people. in the united states, uncertainty for thousands of farmers, workers and investors in a stock market which just saw its worst quarter since 2015. and in syria, people dying and struggling to breathe after an alleged chemical attack for which both russia and syria deny culpability. joining me now to talk about all of this, washington bureau scheef for "the new york times" elizabeth. msnbc political analyst michael steele. washington correspondent for bbc world news america, msnbc contributor and author of a new book out this week "the

confidence code for girls" katty kay. plus washington correspondent for cnbc, kayla. thank you for joining us this sunday night. catty, i want to start with you to put this all in global perspective particularly as we learned of the alleged attack in syria this morning now. we know that president trump, last time he was confronted with something like this, launched strikes against syria, a move that the obama administration declined to make. what is your sense of the significance of what we have learned this morning and how intensely the u.s. should respond? >> well, i think the president's tweets were significant, partly because he took on vladimir putin in name for pretty much the first time ever. but it also raises questions about what american strategy is. the president launched an attack last time against an air field. the syrians have responded a year later with more chemical attacks. clearly that didn't work. i think the question for the president, who seems to want to -- his instinct is to want to

withdraw from the middle east to bring american troops back home to have a more isolationist, foreign national policy, and yet at the same time wants to play the strong man when there is something like this and retaliate. it throws into question his strategy, what president trump wants to do, is going to do in the middle east, and whether there will be if there is another strike, any more concrete follow through in termds of strategy in syria than there has been. >> elizabeth, there's been some statements coming out, early statements from republicans, members of congress who are putting blame with iran and with russia. it did seem note worth think as katy pointed out, the president in this case blamed vladimir putin for this. what do you make of his decision to do that? and, you know, for folks who are tuning back in to this story, how important is russia's role in syria right now? >> it's quite important. assad would not be there without putin. i think it's very interesting, we know that trump will not blame putin when it comes to russian interference in the election in 2016 because by

blaming putin that sort of calls into question the legitimacy of his win. this is very different. assad has put trump in a box right now. a few days ago as we all know, trump said he wanted to pull out. the generals talked him down, said you can't do it precipitously. now it looks like this is a response the president wanting to get out of syria. he has to blame somebody. putin is a good one to blame as is assad. but i just want to say also, the fact that we -- this is a political problem for the president. we are not -- the u.s. is not in the areas where the attack occurred. the u.s. is fighting isis in syria. we're not fighting the government of assad. however, it is hard to separate that out right now. people hear trump wants out, asada tax. >> you mention the generals and jim mattis has essentially said we need to stay in syria. is your sense that this could potentially sway the president to make a change in this regard? re: well, he did say he wanted to stay after there was a meeting at the white house. the generals talked him into saying don't pull out.

>> the latest conversation, though. >> that was thursday or friday. >> right. >> so for now the u.s. is staying. again, it's 2000 largely special operations troops. this is keeping those troops there is not going to prevent another chemical attack. >> yeah. michael steele, what is your sense of what's different here for president trump? we saw last time this is a president, as we know, who spends a lot of time watching the news. >> yeah. >> and images like these devastating ones oults of syria tend to affect his decision making. >> it does. i think he was probably moved more by those images than anything someone said to him, you know in the first instance because he does have mental blocks he puts up at times. but i think the image for him just sort of recounted and recalled for him just how sticky this is, how difficult it will be to pull out, and probably for now it's going to be easier to stay given everything else because in the long run -- well, just in the short run, pulling out now just opens up more opportunities for assad to do a lot more harm.

so, i think the president wants to draw a line to the extent we can use that term, in the sand here. >> elizabeth pointed out assad has boxed trump into a corner here. but also lindsey graham saying on television he has to respond now or do something, otherwise he's going to look weak in the eyes of iran and russia. that's the kind of language that trump responds to, right? he never wants to look weak and i think lindsey graham is also slightly edgetion trump ining t corner, too. >> given his propensity to be challenged in that regard, you don't want him to show how much of a man he is, you know? more president than we may need in the moment. it needs to be a sober, thought through process. and i think that's where mattis and others will play an important role. >> trump's approach has always been actions speak louder than words. that was his criticism of president obama. that was why last year, almost a year to the day ago, why he chose to launch though 59 tomahawk missiles before

tweeting about it, we should mention. and why in june of last year when the u.s. got so much as a whiff of intelligence that syria might be planning another chemical attack, the white house put out a preemptive statement saying there would be a heavy price to pay. this is almost as if the u.s. has fallen asleep at the switch. you had the president just a few days ago saying he wanted to pull out. you have senator mccain saying that statement emboldened assad to actually do what it did. and now the president has to figure out whether he will act or whether that tweet will stand alone. >> kenny, how much blame does the obama deserve for this situation in they said these weapons were supposed to have been destroyed. >> the excuse the obama administration gave for not crossing that red line, doing something militarily in syria was they got a better deal. this is what the obama administration said. look, we didn't need to use military forces. we got the chemical weapons out of syria. that is clearly become a myth. we've seen it not just on this occasion. we've seen chemical attacks to know not enough of those

chemical weapons were taken out, >> when obama was about to strike syria, i want approval from congress. congress said, we don't think so. >> as did the british parliament. >> let's not forget the history here. >> absolutely. let's expand this conversation a little bit. kayla, i want to turn back to you because this prospect of a trade war with china, it seems as though -- this seems to be like another classic case, the president says one thing one day, another thing another day. his advisors say one thing on one channel and another thing on another channel. we have some sound bites we can play in a second. how much of the decline in the stock market at this point do you think can be chalked up to uncertainty around this question? >> uncertainty around what the president will do. on one hand you have his advisor saying this could be an opening volley in negotiations, which is how we hope this ends up. kevin hassett on friday said, don't call the president's

bluff. this is something he wants to do. and the president is emboldened by being the first mover in a lot of these situations, doing something that no prior president has ever done before. that is something that really gives him a rise, and that is a situation that advisors to presidents clinton, bush and obama are looking at this and say, we all agree that china needed to be held to account for its trade transgressions, but this isn't the way we would have gone about it because of the consequence. and here's the president saying, you know, i'm going to go there. >> you touched on this idea that it's unclear exactly where everybody seems to stand in this. we had two of the president's advisors on television this morning talking about whether or not this was a threat or a real trade war, and if you can figure out what exactly is happening here, then you're smarter than i am. take a look. >> those tariffs will be imposed and those investment restrictions will be imposed. we're clear eyed about this. we're moving forward on a measured way with tariffs, with investment restrictions.

>> no tariffs have been implemented yet. you have to take certain risks as you go in. we're taking them. we're making our case. nothing's happened so far. >> so, regardless of who is right on that score -- and you can be the judge -- it still could be the president's own political base that foots the lion's share of the bill from any potential trade war that might emerge. on wednesday, china responded to trump's tariff threat by proposing some of its own on u.s. goods. those include soybeans, airplanes, cars, corn, cotton, wheat, and tobacco, just to name a few. china currently buys 60% of all u.s. soybean exports. of the top ten, soybean producing states, trump won eight of them in 2016. and according to the washington post, 82% of those living in counties most directly impacted by these tariffs voted for trump. here's what larry kudlow had to

say on friday about the pain that those farmers might feel. >> in china for not playing ball, don't blame the president. he's standing up for american companies and business. >> technology is at the root of this. that doesn't exclude our manufacturers who get hurt or even our farmers who might get hurt. but we can't allow china, which is a first-world country, play by the rules -- >> michael steele, the politics of this. i mean, this is -- unlike the aluminum and steel tariffs which spoke directly to a population of people in the rust belt, this is something republican senators are opposing that could really have major impact in some of these places where trump won. >> well, absolutely. the president throughout the campaign in 2016 never told us that all this winning would cause such pain. and so here we are now in the environment where there is going to be pain. there is going to be an impact on those very communities that

have stood behind him. the question becomes how they feel about that, and how they sort of translate this. the president's team, larry kudlow notwithstanding, is hell bent on moving forward on this. that's very clear. i think know var onavarro is mo player than kudlow. kudlow is for the softening of the markets. kudlow doesn't want these big spikes the way we've seen happen over the last few days. his whole role is less about that base. that's navarro. his whole role is about the markets. >> markets and wall street. taylor -- >> that's why members of congress are trying to take matters into their own hands. during recess you had about half a dozen gop senators who actually went to china and went to korea to try to protect the foreign direct investment into their states because they know that that's responsible for billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs. and they know that that's at risk. those investment restrictions

you just heard peter navarro talking about, those could go after that very investment directly into the states at a local level. you had the federal reserve saying business leaders regionally are already citing potential tariffs as reasons why they're not investing in their business, they're not creating jobs and they're very uncertain. they're not talking about the growth aspects of tax reform any more which they were a couple weeks ago. >> you saw president trump tweeting saying he was going to stay friends with president xi. the one thing that is going to push the chinese to take action is when the americans or the american president forces president xi into a position where he has to respond. he cannot look weak at home. so, when president trump criticizes president xi on twitter, that is disastrous than any potential chinese retaliation. >> i have to say i think it is the obvious the president's advisors are split on this. i think there are some, we know who they are, mnuchin and wilbur ross who want to negotiate with china. navarro wants to hold tight, be tough. i think we have to watch the stock market this coming week and see how long trump can stand

these massive losses in the stock market and see if he can hold firm because there is a lot of anxiety with the president about the stock market. >> and we will be watching you, kayla, for all of the information on that on cnbc. thank you so much for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. we also do here on msnbc want to make a correction to an earlier report on this network. msnbc has been reporting today that the nse is set to meet on syria tonight. we reached out to the white house and the nsc and they have not confirmed that to us. we will continue to report out this story and keep you up to date on it. but for now, up next, we are just getting started. senator amy klobuchar is standing by. she is set to grill mark zuckerberg on capitol hill this week. plus. >> this was going to be my remarks. it would have taken about 2 minutes. the hell with it. [ applause ] >> that would have been a little boring. >> never boring. new reporting, republicans may have a new messaging strategy for the mid terms. impeachment. we'll explain that when we

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welcome back to "kasie d.c." facebook is facing sharp criticism following the revelation that the data of at least 87 million users was compromised by consulting firm cambridge analytica. the company's ceo, mark zuckerberg, is slated to testify before two committees in congress this week to explain among other things why it took

the social media giant so long to notify its users that their data had been stolen. here's senate judiciary committee member john kennedy putting it as only he can. >> mr. zuckerberg has not exhausted himself, being forthcoming. we had one hearing. mr. zuckerberg sent his lawyer, very bright, very articulate, could talk a dog off a meat wagon, but he didn't say anything. but my biggest worry with all this is that the privacy issue and what i call the propaganda issue is too big for facebook to fix and that's the frightening part. >> senator john kennedy, ladies and gentlemen. for more i want to welcome senator amy klobuchar from minnesota who sits on the senate judiciary committee and has been a leading voice on this issue and on pressing these tech companies. senator, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> i don't know if i will be as fun as senator kennedy. i'll try.

>> i think you can be. i've seen you give speeches. >> he and i together called for mark zuckerberg to testify before any of this blew up just because we thought all the tech executives should come before the judiciary committee and figure out what's going on with privacy and violations and then this happened and now he's coming. >> what is your top question for mark zuckerberg? what is the one answer you feel like he really needs to give, you and americans? >> how do you fix this? and this is really about 87 million people. we know lately in the last week found out it was 37 million more than we thought, and that is literally the combined population of california, texas and new york. that's how many people's facebook profiles were given to a russian professor, russian-american professor who then somehow gave did to cambridge analytica. we still haven't gotten to the bottom of what happened. although a whistleblower, wiley was on "meet the press" this

morning with chuck todd. he said it's possible that this information is housed in russia, that he doesn't rule it out that some of it has been housed there. obviously these are some of the kind of questions we want answered. but i think what's really important, and there will be a bunch much senators asking questions, so not just dwelling on the past, but how they are going to fix it moving forward. >> we actually have a clip of that interview that christopher wiley did with chuck. let's look at a little bit of t. >> it was quite clear early on steve bannon absolutely wanted to use it for, you know, republican candidates and the early projects that, you know, we started to apply the research to were indeed alt-right candidates in the united states. >> so, just to put that in a little bit of context, steve bannon was on the board involved heavily in cambridge analytica. what is your view about how this data was used? does facebook understand, and do you believe that this was explicitly to help the trump campaign? >> we don't know that. that's one of the questions i'm sure someone will ask.

but the key here is you put yourself at risk when you start giving people's data away. people think they're taking an innocent psychological quiz. none of them thinks that their information is going to actually be given to a political consultant. i don't care if it's for a republican or democrat. they don't think that. and that's their problem. they have built a product with no locks on the doors and no alarms, and now they are finally coming forward and saying that we want to fix some things. the other piece of this is political ads. something that i've been advocating for now for over a year, and we have a really good bill that lo and behold -- >> the honest ads bill. >> and they are now going to support as of last week. facebook is supporting the bill and they are voluntarily going to be putting out all these ads, both candidate ads and issue ads. >> and that's critical. the issue ads piece of it. that's things like black lives matter protests that were manipulated or used differently

to try and incite, we think, political immigration ads. >> energy ads, you name it. under the standards right now, at issue ads of national legislative importance have to be disclosed by your station. they have to be disclosed by radio. and so we're simply applying the same rules. they are now voluntarily going to do that. they are going to have an archive up in june so everyone can see what the ads are. they are also going to require disclaimers. we want twitter and google and the other platforms to do this as well as we work to pass our bill because otherwise you're going to have a patch work of companies doing this. >> sheryl sandberg, who is another prominent face for the company, went out on something of a national mea copa tour in a way sort of. facebook has been adjusting its strategy as they faced this crisis. what was your assessment of her posture towards answering these questions? do you feel like she was forthcoming? >> well, i just saw one of the interviews. i think there was a real problem early on where they were

actually saying this wasn't a breach and i just figure, you know, if someone breaks into my apartment with a crow bar or if the manager gives them a key to go in and steal things, it's the same thing. and that is what more happened here with the way the product is run. i think they still have a lot of explaining to do, but most importantly i think what you've seen what happened with the value of their company, with what kind of the push back, they're going to have to start building these privacy controls a in really understandable ways and i think you're going to start seeing some rules. i was asked on this network just a few months ago whether or not by chuck todd, whether we should do something about bots. and i said we should. you thought, oh, this is so bad. i think we're going to have so start having some rules of the road for all these companies in place. >> yeah, and these tech companies are a little bit afraid of democrats taking back the house and the senate in some ways because they think you might be more willing to regulate them. true? >> well, i think what we're looking for no matter if you're democrat and republican, senator

kennedy and i have joined forces on this, you want to have a democracy that works. you don't want to have russia influencing who our candidates are. so, i don't know what they're thinking politically. what i know is this should not be a partisan issue. it just can't be. >> let me ask you about the midterm elections. you were just on the campaign trail for one of your colleagues, tammy baldwin in wisconsin. there has been a push on the left to talk about impeaching president trump and this is now something "new york times" is reporting that republicans are using against democrats. do you think it's helpful in your cause of trying to take back the senate for democrats to be talking about impeaching the president? >> i think, first of all, most senators that i know have just simply talked about the investigation being allowed to move forward, which involves, of course, a number of people that have been indicted. and and -- >> is that your position right now as well? >> yes, of course. we in the senate would be looking at any evidence that would come in. you haven't seen a lot of

senators calling for impeachment when the investigation is still going on. and i've heard republicans like lindsey graham say very clearly they want to protect that investigation as well. so, i don't see a big difference here and i think they are trying to use that politically. being in wisconsin with tammy yesterday, what people want to talk about are the things that matter to them in their everyday lives and that is the cost of prescription drugs. that is doing something to make sure that they are going to have health care. that is making sure that they can afford to send their kids to college. and that is the focus of most people out there in minnesota and wisconsin and other states. that doesn't mean that as democrats we can't do two things at once. and i believe we can do this. i'm a mom, i believe you can do this. one is to focus on this economic opportunity issue which is so important to our constituents, but the other, we do have a duty as elected officials in the senate to be in emergency break. when the president takes on the first amendment, when the president goes after independent

judiciary, when the president gds after the workings of our democracy, yes, we have an obligation to do that, but it doesn't mean you can't do two things at once. >> quickly before i let you go, mark zuckerberg -- i never get to ask about what men wear. somebody mentioned this morning he should wear a suit and tie to the hearing. do you concur? >> i think so. it is a congressional hearing and i know he's used to his t-shirt. he owns one. he owns one, and he can afford to buy one, so i think he's okay. i think he should respect -- >> is it the best suit in the world based on -- >> i think this is going to be a very big moment because it is not really just about facebook. we wanted to see twitter and google as well. we asked for their ceos and hopefully at some point we can hear them because this is really the beginning of looking at how can we allow these brilliant companies to keep going and give us all these new tools to communicate, but at the same time protect our privacy and make sure that we are as sophisticated in our laws as the

people that are trying to break them and mess around with us. >> senator amy klobuchar, we will be watching the hearing. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> in the next hour, congressman ro cann a will join me on set. is john kelly on thin ice or not? and national guard troops making their way to the southern boarder. "kasie d.c." is back in a moment. -if you told me a year ago where i'd be right now...

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i told him, you know, there's been an evolutionary process this president has gone through as a campaign, i pointed out to the members in the room they all say things during the course of the campaigns that may may or may not be fully informed. >> that interview is reportedly one of the reasons president trump has begun to sour on chief of staff john kelly. there were reports that increasingly kelly has been left out of the loop on some key moments and decisions. what's more, according to the washington post, the president has vented over the dhs secretary's sensibilities as well. ashley parker reports the president said, quote, you didn't tell me she was a, eh, george w. bush person. leaving the expletive out of that. now texas is sending 250 troops to the southern border and they are expected to arrive within

the next day or so. the governor of new mexico has also agreed to send troops. president bush and president obama both sent troops to the border during their presidencies. michael steele, let's -- john kelly, what do you think he means to this administration currently based on all of this reporting? he was the enforcer. he's some of the things he put into place still exist, but now the president, of course, seems to be moving, maybe pushing him out? >> i think, you know, we have to be honest about what's really going on here. the president doesn't really want a chief of staff, never has. he has been his own chief of staff, bottle washer, communications person. so, he's tolerating his current chief of staff just as he tolerated the last one. there will come a point where i think he will go and will not be replaced. i think that's the space the president ultimately wants to be in. he's still trying to get the cabinet the way he wants it, shaped the way he wants it

he talks about kristen as if she's some foreign person. i didn't know she was a bush person. that's the only crop of people you have to pick from in this town because there were no trump people before you got here. >> that's for sure. >> that's his reality as much as he may not like it. >> well, it seems like, elizabeth, they are really two hard liners on immigration, particularly john kelly. he has been a pretty hard line voice. >> he was the head of southern command before he -- sometime before he came to the white house. he saw that was the military. pentagon, he was in charge of, and that included the southern border. from his perspective, he saw a lot of drug running coming over the border so he was much tougher on immigration than people suspected at first. we learned that quickly after -- when he was at homeland security. but i agree, i don't think trump wants a chief of staff. you know, he wants to go back to the days when he was at trump tower, before he was president,

when he would watch tv in the morning, tweet a little bit, come downstairs, go to his office about 10:00, 10:30, surround himself with friendly people -- >> executive time. >> yeah, and he would make it up as he went along. he would never have a real plan for what he wanted to do on a certain day. and he would react. and we found that's what he's doing now. he reacts. chief of staff, he wants to impose a schedule, control access to the oval office, listen in on phone calls. you know, he's rebelling. >> what is your sense of how much of this john kelly resigning is about john kelly's own -- we know he has a kind of temper, in some ways an irish sense of humor is how one person put it. i mean, are these stories coming from him making offhand remarks that he doesn't mean, or is this a real kind of push for the door? >> john kelly has said on television that god must be unhappy with him and that's why he moved him from homeland

security into his current job, which suggests that he's not entirely happy there, but he's also -- he's a general. he's a man of duty. and i think he feels that his duty is to stay there and do that job. the president seems to be making major decisions, whether it's getting rid of mcmaster, whether it's bringing in john bolton, whether it's praising and congratulating vladimir putin without john kelly there. that makes his job untenable. he faces the prospect of trade war with china, military action against syria, an immigration stug struggle, a midterm election that is going to be difficult for the republican party. the possibilities of doing that without a chief of staff i thought would have been difficult for the white house. >> there were a lot of staffers in the white house when kelly came in felt relieved, like they had space to do their jobs, like it wasn't steve bannon versus reince priebus and the resulting chaos. i know i certainly talked to people who were in charge of dealing with capitol hill who

said, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing that's ever happened. >> yeah, well, they made an assumption that at least there would be this sort of reproach mount between president trump and everybody in the white house who didn't fit into trump world. kelly offered that space for them. what they are beginning to see and i think realize is even with someone, a general that the president seemingly wanted to be surrounded by, that when it comes to specific spaces, he wants to occupy that space alone. whether it's communication for what he's doing or the overall direction and structure of what he's doing, and those two pieces, chief of staff and communications director, noticed that communication director spot has yet to be filled. >> surprise, surprise. >> are the two spaces this president feels he has the most control and power over. >> elizabeth, last word to you. katy ticked through the long list of challenges facing the country. one thing i feel like has been

repeated but has not yet materialized is this idea that the president creates his own crises over and over and over again but he has not yet had to really confront a major one that is not of his own making and that this could have serious consequences if, in fact, he has to face it without john kelly. >> right. he still has secretary mattis at the pentagon for a major international crisis and he'll have john bolton as well. but you're absolutely right. the other thing i want to say about the president, kelly said early on that he was not going to have anything to do with the president's tweets. he had no control over them. that was -- but that is where major administration policy is made at 6:00 and 7:00 in the morning when the president tweets out all these things that actually -- that affect -- you're the chief of staff and you have no control over that. >> you have very little control over this president. >> while you're there. >> and we should mention john bolton has his first day in the white house tomorrow. we haven't gotten to that. elizabeth, michael steele, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. up next, it will take a lot

to felipe red seat in the blue grass state. lieutenant colonel amy mcgrath joins us from lexington, kentucky as we continue our series spotlight of the wave of women running for congress. back after this. e. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. my insurance company definitely doesn't have that... you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. managing blood sugar isn't a marathon. it's a series of smart choices. like using glucerna to replace one meal or snack a day. only glucerna has carbsteady... unique blends of slow-release carbs to help manage blood sugar.

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run for seats in the house of representatives. 309 in total by the a.p.'s count. surpassing the previous high in 2012. but there is another growing demographic of americans who are also running, veterans. lieutenant colonel maimy mcgrath checks both of those boxes. she was, in fact, the first female marine to fly an f-18 fighter jet on a combat mission. and she went on to fly 89 of them in both iraq and afghanistan. now she's running for a seat in kentucky's 6th congressional district against republican incumbent andy barr and fellow democrat and mayor of lexington, jim gray. amy mcgrath joins me now live from lexington. lieutenant colonel, thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate it. >> it's great to be here tonight. >> after reading through your biography there, i have to ask, what did you learn, the marine corps is a pretty male dominated institution. what did you learn in the marine corps that will help you in

trump's washington? >> persistence and, you know, speaking truth to power. i think that, you know, having -- being male dominated doesn't really matter. you just go in there, as a marine, what we care about is performance. we care about competence. i think those are traits that are really needed right now. >> one thing that democrats have focused on in what is shaping up to be a wavy alexis year is the potential of the impeachment of president trump. this is something that progressives have talked quite a bit about. do you believe this president should be impeached? >> you know, i think we ought to wait for the mueller investigation to go to full -- to its full completion. right now, let's wait for that. let's wait for all the facts to come out and then decide after that. >> you have accused some in the democratic establishment of

essentially abandoning your campaign or lining up behind one of your opponents, the mayor of lexington in particular. do you believe democrats in washington are putting their finger on the scale against you? >> you know, i just think that it's disappointing to me to see that there are democrats in washington that would try to meddle in primary elections around the country. i just think we ought to let the voters decide. it's quite simple for me. >> would you support nancy pelosi to lead the democratic party in the house? >> you know, i think that if elected, when elected, i would look at all leaders that would step up to possibly be speaker of the house. i think nancy pelosi has had a difficult job in the past, but i'm very concerned as are voters

here in kentucky that leadership in washington is really led in the democratic party by san francisco and new york and, you know, we ought to look at some new leaders out there. i think that, you know, that's the prudent thing to do. >> katy from the bbc. you've seen your share of combat. you are now running in a different combat sport, if you like. what surprised you most about running as a woman and as a democrat in kentucky? >> you know what surprised me is when i first started, everybody said it's going to be so hard. but, you know what? people just -- they're just looking for new leaders. they're looking for people of integrity. they're looking for people of character. and i really don't think gender matters that much. that's what surprised me. and the cool thing about that is that it's a lot like being in the marine corps, you know. once you get out there, once you prove yourself, once people get

to know you and know you as a leader and as somebody of character, i think that they're behind you. and that's what i've been surprised about, i guess. >> there are an awful lot of candidates running for the democratic party for the midterm elections in the primaries. a lot of them are women like yourself. one of the things that concerns some people in the democratic parties, the party is being pulled too far to the left. is that something you're worried about? >> you know, i think that we ought to -- i'm not that worried about it because i think the candidates that are going to win are going to be the ones that best represent their districts. and i think that's where we're at in america. i do think we need a new generation of leaders. i think that's one of the things that is exciting right now. i think we need more women in places like congress. i think we need more veterans as well. and so, you know, we're going to let the voters decide. >> colonel, let me ask you

quickly as well, you made a decision to pull some of your campaign ads. you've spent quite a bit, especially for first-time candidate on the air. from sinclair broadcasting, can you explain that decision? >> yeah, i can. i mean, what sinclair has done with making their local reporters read their corporate script, which is sort of right wing script, this is the kind of thing that you see in places around the world that have authoritarian regimes. and it's really quite scary. when i saw it, which was over easter weekend, you know, i was stunned. i'm very concerned about it. it's right to the heart of hitting us in our freedom of press and our independent media. and so i just felt like, look, i've got to make a stand. i've got to do the right thing here. and that's why i decided to pull my ads because, you know, we need leaders that make principled stands.

>> lieutenant colonel amy mcgrath, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you. >> we'll have much more "kasie d.c." in just a moment. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. you won't find relief here. congestion and pressure? go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray relieves 6 symptoms... claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure.

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mcgrath and our ongoing series on women candidates, it's only appropriate, congratulations on your new book, "the confidence code for girls". this is a book you originally wrote for women. you figured out you needed to aim it at a much younger audience. >> when we did the research on confidence, it became clear that the problem started much younger. we've done a poll that coincided with the release of this book this week that showed from the age of 8, girls are losing confidence. they lose confidence by about 1/3. >> why is that? >> it's a mixture of nature and nurture. our estrogen kicks in. we want to become people pleaser. the problem with becoming a people pleaser is you become a perfectionist. the only way is taking risks. that means a certain amount of failure. girls who want to be perfectionists hate failing. that's what our poll shows as well. >> i'm familiar with that. >> if you want to be confident, you to take the risks. >> wish i had a book like this when i was a girl.

thanks for your time tonight, katty. i appreciate it. it's "the confidence code for girls."" you can get it on amazon. i highly recommend you do. up next, a tradition unlike any other our producers watch the sunday shows so you don't have to. plus gina mccarthy joins me live, and jonathan lamere brings reporting on the uncertain future of scott pruitt who reportedly asked his security detail to run lights and sirens to get out of a traffic jam on his way to le diplomat. [ doorbell rings ]

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the state of our union is horrified by the reports coming out of syria. >> dozens have been killed in the attack. >> we'll be reviewing the situation later today. >> we need to take a pretty strong response. >> he's got to send a message. >> listthis is a defining momen his presidency. on trade the battle is ramping up. >> increasing chances for a trade war. >> redon't think there will be a trade war. >> i think we need a more nuanced approach. >> the problem here is china.

this is a problem caused by china. it is not president trump. not a problem caused by president trump. >> people really don't know what the president's plan or what mr. kudlow's plan. >> we cannot let china willy-nilly steal our technology. >> okay. facebook is going to testify before congress this week. >> it is worth a serious investigation. >> we're not going to conclude this in one hearing. >> i hope he comes to congress wearing a nice business suit and shirt and tie. i'm tired of that shh shirt hoodie stuff. >> the president defended epa administrator scott pruitt. >> can you say whether the president still has confidence in him. >> he has the confidence of the president. >> i think scott pruitt is the wrong person to head the epa. >> mr. pruitt has been doing a good job. >> these ethic issues need to be resolved. >> i don't think you could get a room for $50 a night. >> why do you want to rent an apartment from a lobbyists, gore god sake. stop acting like a chucklehead. >> welcome back to "kasie dc." some life lessons from john

kennedy there joining me this hour, president and vo of voto latino and maria therese is a kumar. jonathan le mere, and washington bureau chief for usa today susan page. thank you all for being here tonight. i really appreciate it. i want to start off by talking about the sheer number of negative headlines surrounding epa chief scott pruitt. it has been something to behold. we have seen reports on everything from lavish first class travel to a $43,000 soundproof phone booth. a bulletproof desk, questionable pay raises for staffers. and then there are details like this one from "the new york times," quote, mr. pruitt, who often ran late, wanted to use the lights and sirens in his motorcade to expedite local trips in washington, to the airport, to dinner, and at least one trip to le diplomate, a trendy french restaurant he frequented.

and just this weekend the associated press reported that pruitt's around-the-clock security detail has cost taxpayers nearly $3 million in total. here is how pruitt defended himself against just one of these stories in an interview this week with ed henry of fox news. >> president trump said he would drain the swamp. is draining the swamp renting an apartment from the wife of a washington lobbyist? >> i don't think that's even remotely fair to ask that question. >> okay. so why did you then accept $50 a night to rent a condo from the wife of a washington lobbyist? >> let's talk than that is something, that, again, has been reviewed by officials here. they said that it's market rate. >> you only paid for the nights you were there. >> that's exactly right. >> that's kind of a sweetheart deal. your house in oklahoma you pay a mortgage on that. and when you don't sleep there you still pay the mortgage, right? >> not -- yes. >> yes you do. >> i wasn't using the facility. >> go, ed, go.

this morning the president posted on twitter, quote, while security spending was somewhat more than his predecessor, scott pruitt has received death threats because of his bold actions at epa. record clean air and water while saving usa millions of dollars. travel expenses, okay. scott is doing a great job. jonathan lamere, is scott pruitt part of the swamp? >> perhaps. first of all, let's just point out is there has been no evidence produced there has been any death threats. the epa has not been able toe respond to requests saying that has happened. scott pruitt certainly has a tenuous hold on his job. but he is at least now in there. and despite chief of staff john kelly's urging to have the president dispose of him, the president is inclined to let him hang around. at least for a little while. he seems to be digging in his heels for the time being. and one thing that pruitt has that perhaps david shulkin did not have is a lot of help from the outside. pruitt has lost a lot of west

wing advisers, he has very little support in the building anymore, there is a team of industry leaders and republicans, a number on the hill who have said to the president, said look, he is getting stuff done. he is advancing your conservative agenda at the epa. he should be able to remain in his post. the president himself is personally fond of him. thinks he is doing good work with the regulations. but if there is another avalanche of bad headlines, one wonders whether he can survive. >> yes, understatement. susan page, one aspect of this that jonathan lemire didn't touch on is that scott pruitt has become somewhat of an unlikely hero for the right, for people like rush limbaugh who have defended him. >> who among us would not like to run lights and sirens when we're running late to a restaurant reservation. >> and i do love le diplomate. >> they'll giveaway. >> he has become a hero to the right. i think all of us get a lot of

e-mails from conservative activists and organizations defending him. i think the president's decision to defend him today is remarkable. in any administration, he would have been out the door by now. even in this administration, he'd be out the door by now. how is his offenses less bad than what pushed tillerson out. i mean, gary cohn, other people who have left voluntarily or not so voluntarily. but i think that must be why the two things that jonathan mentioned, one that trump likes him, which holds him in good stead and the conservatives are defending him. >> i think it's actually exploring why does trump like him. and the reason that trump likes him, and rachel -- rachel maddow does a beautiful piece, it's the connection to carl icahn. so right after the president interviewed pruitt, he said go march up two blocks and go talk to icahn.

icahn talks to the exact same lobbyist as he surprisingly was renting a place from. so it all starts coming together. why does the president like him? it could be because one of his supporters who basically has been really close to the president, explaining him to him not only washington, but also has his hand in the cookie jar saying keep pruitt alone because he is doing the service we would like him to do. >> joining me now to talk more about this is gina mccarthy. she is now professor of public health at harvard university and director for the center for health and the global environment. thank you so much for joining me. professor, former administrator, pick your appropriate title. i really appreciate your time. >> thanks, kasie. it's good to be here. >> first of all, how much money did you spend on security in your first year? do you happen to know off the top of your head? >> no, actually i don't. but i know i had many fewer security people with me. i knew i flew coach, and i know that he is comparing what i spent in four or eight years

with what he has already spent in one. >> did you ever do what he is accused of in turning on lights and sirens to try and go around a traffic jam in the instance of a personal issue? >> look, let me just make something very clear. in the obama administration, it wasn't just the work you did but how you did it. it was all about the dignity of the office, being a public servant, guarding the public trust. i never did anything that would cause people to have concern that i wasn't acting with the dignity of the office. >> i want to show you a little bit more of the interview that pruitt did with ed henry of fox news where your name was mentioned. take a look. >> in terms of draining the swamp, do you think if an obama cabinet official rented an apartment here in washington from the wife of a washington lobbyist, you don't think donald trump and scott pruitt would say it was disaster?

>> they weren't even looking at those issues back then. >> well we're looking at them now there. >> are members of congress that have for years rented rooms on capitol hill. the c street area. >> so it's a swamp. you said it's a swamp. >> no, no, no. >> you're doing the same thing they did, you're saying. it's okay for yous? >> i didn't say that. >> you said congressmen have been doing it. if the obama people did it, the media wouldn't cover it. if it happened before, why aren't you changing? >> ed, here is the point i'm trying to make. you're asking me whether criticism would have been criticism with respect to previous cabinet officials and obama. the fact of the matter is nobody even is asking the questions back then. here is why they weren't. because they weren't getting things done like this administration. that's why those questions weren't being asked. >> so i will put this question to you, former obama administration official. they were talking specifically about his living arrangements. what were your arrangements when you lived in the capital? and did you a deal with a lobbyist or similarly that you took advantage of?

>> i rented an apartment and paid for it with my own money. it was certainly not glamorous. but, look, i was there to do a job. and i think we don't just have to look at whether scott pruitt is becoming the swamp he was really supposed to be draining. but also look at his lack of transparency within the agency. he's hiding in his own office. and he's separating himself from the employees so he doesn't learn anything. he is not following the science. he is attacking it. he is not following the law. so i know that the president is interested in keeping him doing his job because he's being so effective. but in truth he isn't being effective. hen has been challenged in court because of taking shortcuts in the law and the process, then he has had his actions turned back by the courts and found to be illegal. he is making a lot of headlines, making a lot of announcements about rollbacks. but in effect, every law that

was in effect in 2016 when we left office is still on the books today. so the president may impressed with his announcements, just like he gets impressed with his own, but that doesn't mean that things are getting rolled back. but what it does mean, as you have an administrator who isn't focused on the mission of the agency, who solely looking at cost to industry rather than public health and lives saved. that's what we need in this country is folks who understand their public servants. they have a job to do for the public. not for their own benefit and gratification. >> you referenced there was a story this morning in "the new york times" about the possibility that many of these regulations that as you point out he is trying to overturn, he may be doing in such a way that opens himself up to legal challenges. do you think, then, that he is not doing real damage in your view to environmental policy?

>> well, the damage is that things are not getting done. this is the first administration that i know of whose sole vision for the future is to turn everything back that the prior administration did. so i don't want to say that there shouldn't be federal leadership. we need it at this time. we have real challenges to public health. we have real challenges to our own public health and safety with the challenge of climate change. it's embarrassing to look at how the international world is looking at us. it's embarrassing that we're ceding economic vitality and jobs that relate to clean energy to china. why aren't we wanting to lead the world both economically and in terms of protecting our families? they just announced a car roll that they're getting to look at. but that rule wasn't just about costing business money. it was actually providing a

certainty years in the future about what kind of cars should be produced that will not just reduce greenhouse gases out of fuel and climate change, but actually save families money. up to $8,000 over the life of a vehicle. so we did our jobs well. and this administration in trying to get rid of what we did will have to do their job well. they'll have to do the science. they'll have to base it on fact. they'll have to reach out to the public. and they'll have to talk not just about savings to industry. but what the cost of those rules are to public health if we don't move forward. >> gina mccarthy, thank you very much for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. >> great to be here. thanks. >> let's talk a little bit about this in a slightly broader context. the president has said that he's close to having the cabinet that he wants, but not quite. it seems clear based on this

slew of negative headlines that scott pruitt is something he wants in his cabinet. >> i think we have actually seen the effect of the changes in the cab it in with the white house staff in recent months. shrink more comfortable with the powers of the presidency. he is less patient with those who say you don't really understand. you need to take it slow. don't say that you need to fuel it back. that's why we see him, for instance, making the statements he did on syria, which now he is having to walk back in the face of these terrible chemical attacks. hi, is bringing in people, a number of them from fox news. but he is bringing in people who are supportive largely of his agenda. as you said, he definitely has less patience for being managed or handled. which is also why the chief of staff is still his chief of staff. there is sense in the west wing that john kelly's days are numbered that the president is sort of tired trying to box him in, tired of trying to control him and restrict his access to his advisers after hours, or people coming in through the oefds. and he started cutting the chief of staff out of a number of key

decisions. >> who did he have wanting to replace kelly with? scott pruitt. >> attorney general. >> oh, attorney general. >> i think that pruitt himself and his team is sort of believed to be the source of a lot of those rumors. >> but i think the challenge right now, and i think you nailed it, the challenge he is surrounding with him is they're not only yes people, but they also know how to spin the media. >> these are all people he cease on television. >> exactly. he knows that he can go ahead and he knows what they're going to say and he knows how to spin the rest of the american public to his position. and that is really -- they should be a return to many folks. they're not going to be able to say oh, my gosh, he really telling the truth? they already know the talking points and they have internalized them to a place that it is going to be difficult to identify the real nuances with his policies. >> we have to press the pause here. but we have quite a bit still to

get twhoefn come, what zuckerberg will say and what he'll wear when he testifies on capitol hill next week. ro khanna joins me live. but first, there is unbelievable midterm polling, and then there is unbelievable midterm polling. we'll have both when we return. >> patrick and evan -- good luck, i don't know, you two. you two. good luck. >> thank you, mr. president. >> should we do a little test? >> yes. let's do it. want in on the secret to ageless skin.

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we know the wind is going to be in our face. we're not sure if it's a category 3, 4, or 5. but i'm hoping we can hold the senate. >> oh, that is a very telling tone of voice. it is looking like an increasingly difficult climate for senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and the republican party to weather the midterms. "the new york times" pointing out that republicans are beginning to use the fear of impeachment as a messaging tool. quote, a strategy is emerging on the right for how to energize conservatives and drive a wedge between the anti-trump left and moderate voters warn that democrats will immediately move to impeach president trump if they capture the house. and next week, joe biden heads to tennessee where a poll shows democrat phil bredesen leaving marsha blackburn by 10 points

that is to fill senator bob corker's seat. he is republican. cloudily, bredesen gets support of 45% of republicans and 35% of independents. meanwhile, president trump waded into west virginia's crucial senate race and conducted an informal poll between two of the republicans vying to take on democratic incumbent senator joe manchin. >> should we do a little test? >> yes, let's do it. let's do it. >> who is voting for patrick? [ cheering ] who is voting for evan? [ cheering ] >> this is his congressional district. >> your district. >> statewide. >> it was fairly close. it was fairly close. >> one more note, the cook political report's latest election analysis now shifts 13 house races towards democrats. joining me now, back from north dakota with some brand-new reporting is nbc news capitol hill reporter leanne caldwell. i want to take a second to talk with all of you than scene that

we just witnessed which was the president sitting between two republican candidates for senate in west virginia, running against joe manchin. what's important about that is the guy who is not sitting on the stage who is considered to be the leading candidate, don blankenship, who has had some trouble with the law resulting potentially in republicans losing a seat that they should be able to walk to. susan page? >> it's possible. and joe manchin is a guy who might be able to negotiate. he is in a very trump friendly state. but he has a long history in that state. and like heidi heitkamp, somebody who is well-known to the constituents in the state and someone who has supported trump whenever he has been able to do so, although not invariably. and you have a republican party that is divided and vying to see who can be more like trump. >> right. >> the president also is obviously light heartedly doing that nfl poll. but it points to sort of his whim shifts day to day who he wants to support. remember the vacillations around

the alabama senate race when eventually he got to roy moore, his third choice after losing twice, i think, that he points to a political shop in the building that still struggles to keep who he wants to back and keeping the president on message supporting them. >> well, and i think we have a little bit of a sound of joe manchin attempting to contort himself in talking about president trump. again, to go back to this and the president sitting between those two candidates because republicans are trying to get them to elevate somebody other than who is leading, but if we can just go ahead and play the sound of the contortionist act that joe manchin those do on a regular basis to try and keep his seat, take a look. >> he is my president. and i'm going to fight like the dickens to make him the best i can. my state can't succeed unless this president succeeds. >> let me speak about the president's movement on tariffs. i support one thousand%. we have a president that has a spine to start saying wait a

minute, we've been taken advantage of for far too long. >> i agree with the president's approach on this. i think it's needed. west virginia got hurt extremely bad with the nafta deal. >> i've never seen him more determine and willing to do whatever he needs to do in order to try to bring some sanity and order to this whole gun issue. >> the president has said he wants a wall. first of all, if we didn't need a wall, i would say that's not right, because the experts tell me we don't need it. we do need a wall. in certain places we need a wall. >> if you look at your senator, he voted against joe. he voted against. no. it was bad. i thought it would be helpful because he talks. grabs me, i grab him. says hello. i say hello. but he votes against everything. and he voted against our tax cuts. >> according to 538, manchin has voted in line with the president's position 60% of the time. we should note before the president's even in west virginia, manchin released a statement commanding the

president answer several questions about the tax law and its effect on west virginians. leanne, you can understand knowing joe manchin why president trump would say that about him. but this reality, manchin, if there was ever a democrat that he was going to get on his side, this is something the president needs. >> and that is one that trump has been trying to get on his side throughout for the past year. joe manchin talks a big game as well as being bipartisan and someone who can support republicans and support trump. he has voted for a lot of trump's nominees in the past. >> right. >> but when it comes down to the big issue, manchin has not sided with the president on tax reform, on repealing obamacare where it matters. so there is going to be a very political race happening. >> difficult dance. so you're just back from north dakota. what did you learn on the ground than race between heidi heitkamp, and now she has a pretty night challenger. north dakota is a fascinating state. it's rural, mostly white. and these are the voters democrats have been trying to get back, especially since the

2016 election when trump overwhelmingly won them. what i learned is these tariffs. these tariffs are a huge deal for north dakota. >> the chinese tariffs, not steel and aluminum or the entire package? >> these farmers. it's farmers. big agriculture state. they're concerned about both. they're concerned about the steel tariffs because they buy so much equipment that is made from steel. so the price of their equipment that they have to purchase is going to increase. and then on the flip side, the chinese retaliatory tactics on soybeans in particular. they say nebraska sends $1.5 billion to asia. that's a huge market. they think they're going to get cut out of the market if china imposes the tariffs on the soybeans. so farmers in north dakota are extremely worried about it. and senator heitkamp, she thinks this could be a huge, huge benefit for her. >> interesting. >> her competitor, representative kramer, he is currently an at large member of congress, he has also won statewide. and he sidewalking a very fine

line when it comes to these tariffs. he is a big supporter of the president. but he is also taking the administration's line that, look, there might be some short-term gain for -- short-term risk for long-term gain. and a loft these farmers that i talked to this in north dakota and got the feeling on the ground, that's not okay with them. they don't want the short-term risk. >> how does senator heitkamp handle talk about president trump when she is at home? >> it depends on the issue. on the tariffs issue, she was super strong. people followed her throughout the day. people would come up and talk to her. and tariffs was an overwhelming topic of discussion that they would bring up. so she was super strong. she said we're going to fight. this but when it comes to other issues, second amendment issues, even after parkland, she did knot does not support any expansion of background checks. she doesn't want any sort of ban of any sort of weapons, assault weapons, anything. she thinks that people who make

those arguments don't understand the second amendment. you know, she has voted with trump 55% of the time. she supported his political nominees as well. it just depends on the issue. she says she is an independent voice. she is going do what's best for north dakotans. >> very, very quickly, did you come away thinking heitkamp was in a stronger or weaker position than you expected? >> i think she is in a stronger position than i expected, yeah. >> leigh anne caldwell, no your time tonight. i appreciate it. coming up, mark dunk's upcoming testimony on capitol hill. "kasie dc" back right after this. liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?!

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a lot of colleges. you get any financial advice? yeah, but i'm pretty sure it's the same plan they sold me before. well your situation's totally changed now. right, right. how 'bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here? that would be great. that would be great. that okay with you, jake? get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from td ameritrade investment management. mark is going to be testifying before congress. what's facebook's message to congress? and do you think mark needs to apologize in that very public setting? >> mark has apologized. and i know he is prepared to apologize in any situation where we have responsibility. mark's message to congress is that he wants to be there to answer all their questions, and he wants to tell them the steps we're taking. >> that was facebook's cheeft operating officer sheryl

sandberg on the "today" show previewing mark zuckerberg's testimony. it comes eight years after zuckerberg said this of his company also on the "today" show. >> our intent is that people own their own information. that's one of the things that makes facebook really special. it's a service that people are using to put up information that they want to share with people that often is really personal, private, intimate. and one of the big differences that facebook makes is it gives you great controls over who you share your information. with. >> today "the new york times" is reporting that facebook has hired a team of experts, including a former special assistant to president george w. bush to prep zuckerberg for his testimony. they are reportedly quote giving him a crash course on humility and charm, and setting up mock hearings, role-playing members of congress. here to discuss all of this is ro khanna of california, who represents silicon valley along with sarah fisher and nbc

correspondent jo ling kent. thank you all for being here tonight. congressman, i have to start with you. do you think facebook has handled this crisis well? >> no, i don't. i think they should have been much more transparent earlier on. they should have done more media interviews earlier on. they should have admitted fault earlier on. so i think so it was a great start. >> have they asked you for help this week? >> they have not. but i reached out to them. and i said you need to get behind an internet bill of rights. it's long past time that we have some basic rights, the right to know your data, delete your data, transfer your data, and tech needs to get ahead of this. do. >> you think democrats are more prepared to regulate silicon valley if you take back the house and the senate? >> i think we are. we are more prepared to protect people's privacy. ly say this about silicon valley, they have a broader set of values, plural as for immigration, for climate change, belief in university, belief in

science, belief in technology. so the republican party is not exactly attractive to silicon valley. that said, they may disagree with some of the regulatory approach. but it's long past time that we need to regulate them. >> i would say most republicans i talk to do believe in universities. but i take your point. jo ling kent, what's at stake for mark zuckerberg this week? >> this is the first time mark zuckerberg has had a test of this size before. so what we're expecting to see is how it impacts advertisers. how it impacts how much time you and i are spending as average users out there. because we're already seeing that the amount of time spent on facebook decline as they make these changes. now congress is probably going to make some demands in addition to asking questions. expect this to have a serious impact on the company. and trust. that's the other big one. >> sarah fisher, what does your reporting say? is facebook only making these moves because they're seeing a real economic impact, or it is because they actually believe in what they're doing now? >> i think it's little bit of both. look, you're completely right.

they did see some economic impact. advertisers say they're pulling. marketers say they're frustrated and their stock is still down to levels that are much lower than it was before the scandal. but at the end of the day, facebook does have long-term incentives to really make sure users trust the platform and want to keep coming back. if they don't come back that. >> can't even serve advertising to begin with. >> how tenuous is zuckerberg's position atop the company? there had been when this scandal was at its peaks, some chatter in business circles that perhaps this was not -- he was not the person that need to be doing thinking we have to remember that mark zuckerberg controls 60% of the board of directors. so he is firmly in control of the company. he hasn't flaerd the board that maybe hiss position is in question. and he feels that he is the person who founded this company, he needs to lead it through the crisis. he has no intentions of leaving. and internally, a lot of my sources are telling me mark zuckerberg is still very much facebook. he is the guy, popular with the company. >> do people still trust him? >> i can't speak for all

facebook employees. but the few people have i talked to inside the company definitely feel it's a turning point where he is being put to the test. and there are a cowl of people i have spoken to who felt great disappointment in the early days of the cambridge analytica scandal. but there are others who say look, we're a big company now. we're going to be face mortgage regulation, as the representative says. so we're going to try and stay the course and make this a good company. because they believe in the spirit of the mission. >> congressman, what tone does mark zuckerberg have to take when he testifies before congress this coming week? >> i would say it would be one of humility saying look, he believes in the power of technology. he thinks technology can be a huge force for good. the parkland kids are using facebook live. but there were unintended consequences of technology that he didn't anticipate, that none of us anticipated. >> clearly from that old interview you could see that he was essentially laying out saying look, you're giving us intimate information. we're going pretech. >> and he didn't. look, i don't think he has

handled this well. but you can't leave data privacy, international security to 30-year-old entrepreneurs. europe didn't do that. they had parliament come up with a framework. so congress is derrell lick. technology has again at lightning speed. what are we doing? to say okay it's some 30-year-old's responsibility is a bit unfair. >> and also, let's remember, we're personally responsible adds well. you can't forget the fact that when you're online, i don't need to be cognizant what you're putting on the internet. face book is not a place that is entirely safe. >> sarah, let's pull out the lens little bit. one of the things that, yes we have talked a lot about facebook and what they're doing with your data. but the reality all this is political. it's about russia interfering in democracy, facebook not knowing what their platform was being used for, not understanding it. how much of that do you think they're capable of fixing. >> that's a huge question. is this company too big to

actually govern itself? you hear investors asking this all the time. what do you do when structurally news outlets are finding these different instances of data breaches faster than facebook can itself? >> right. >> of course it's a political thing on capitol hill as well. mark zuckerberg is going have to convince lawmakers that they can trust him. maybe the scale is just too big. and maybe we do need to take a look at what they're doing in europe with their privacy laws and having government really step in. >> true. i think they're moving in that direction. well were hearing from the company last week that they're hoping to implement some of those things. but in the spirit of the representative's comments, i wonder what happens when there isn't an outlined basic structure in law and policy to hold these companies accountable. because ultimately that is absolutely necessary. >> we're getting there with the honest ads act. facebook just said it would endorse it. will it pass? that's the big question. >> this is an opportunity for facebook and tech leaders to set

an alternative vision besides europe. europe has things like the right to be forgotten. i shouldn't have the right to get things that are critical of me off the internet. and the regulations there are probably too onerous, describing the details of the tools. but we could come up in the american framework consistent with the first amendment to some basic rights. like you should know your data like you know your health data and other things that should be a moment of leadership. it's a defining moment. >> indeed. congressman ro khanna, sarah fisher, jo ling kent, very interesting. i appreciate it. when we come back, i'm joined by nicolle wallace. we're going talk about robert mueller and whether the president is seriously considering interviews with the special counsel. that's up next. that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program,

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the ever expanding russia investigation is now said to be zeroing in on president trump's business partners. mcclatchy is reporting that robert mueller's team questioned a trump organization associate who was involved in overseas deals with the organization in recent years. mueller's team is also said to be interested in dealings involving the president's long-time personal attorney michael cohen. joining me now is nicolle wallace, host of deadline white house on msnbc and her special headliners airs immediately after our show with an in-depth look at robert mueller. my friend, thank you so much for taking the time to come on with us tonight and preview this. >> thank you for having me. i watch your show every sunday in my sweats. this is the first time i've ever

watched it in lip gloss. thanks for having me. >> i very much appreciate the new version. so tell us about the special you have tonight. this a look at robert mueller the man? >> you know what? i worked in the white house for gorgeous. i saw a lot of bob mueller. he started as fbi director for george w. bush on september 4, 2001 just seven days before those attacks. and he was celebrated. and really given a lot of credit as one of the architects of all of the counter terror policies that kept us safe after 9/11. people don't remember that after september 11th, the debate wasn't where f we would be attacked again, it's where. it's just wild to me to watch the men and women of fox news to try to annihilate the character of man who also began his career of public service serving in vietnam and earning a purple

heart and other awards for combat valor. throughout his political life, he spoke of a childhood or college friend named david hackett who inspired him to serve the country in vietnam and the great folks, you know them too here at our news organization who put these documentaries together found -- it's hard to find a lot of footage of bob mueller talking publicly. it's something he doesn't do a lot. even people who are covering him in the context of the mueller investigation say it has been a long time since we've heard his voice. you'll hear from him. you'll see him and see how all his t piece of his life of public service fit together. >> it is interesting that you raise that we have been covering so often as you do on your show every day at 4:00 on msnbc talk about how many of these figures andrew mccabe, jim comey, have been politicized or have their own political if not positions

then profile in some way. it doesn't seem as though robert mueller has one of those. that seems to me what you're saying to us now what he is actually like. >> you know what's funny? sometimes folks in the media and sometimes democrats will lump jim comey and bob mueller together. and it's a wholly inaccurate grouping. bob mueller is someone who has always let the results speak for itself. he prosecuted terrorist cases. he was in private practice and he called a guy named eric holder at the justice department and said i would like to get back in public service. he went back to d.c. and prosecuted murder cases. so he's got this passion. and he was described to me by a trump ally on friday as a prosecutorial assassin. when he prosecutes someone who has done something wrong, he

will get them. so i think the trepidation in trump's circles is justified. but the assignment of any political motive on the part of bob mueller will be blown out of the water by anyone who watches this special at 9:00. he has no allegiance to anyone or anything other than the united states of america, the constitution. and if he has a favorite, it's the patriotic men and women inside the justice department and inside the fbi there is an interesting little tea leaf, though. his former chief of staff talks about his life-long passion and interest in technology. which is something you don't always hear much about, that you don't think about. but it recast how i view some of the threads of the mueller investigation, particularly around the 13 indictments of the russians, now about six weeks ago for cybercrimes. he has been passionate about tech since the early '90s and maybe even before that. >> jonathan lemire, how is the white house reportedly feeling

right now about the mueller investigation? >> it's two different schools of thoughts represented simultaneous. on one hand they were relieve bade report that came out a week or so ago that the president, lease for now was not considered a technical target of the investigation there are some in the trump circles that almost want the take a victory lap off of that that may, this is proof he is going to be exon rate. among other quarters they know this is going on. it could go on for a while. they're always nervous what the president's response will be to the latest revelation and the probe might be there is certainly a difference of opinion in the building as to whether the president should sit down for an interview with mueller and his team. most of his lawyers do not want him to do that. he has said he thinks he can. it will be the final step to getting his name cleared. >> nicolle wallace, last word to you here. this obviously is a man who has been at the front of so many high profile cases. but this is a real crucible. what did you learn about bob mueller in doing this that you

think is important about how he will essentially survive it? >> well, there is no question bob mueller survives this. bob mueller is not pursuing an outcome. anyone that covers this with any sort of notion that bob mueller has any preconceived opinion about where it ends up is ignorant about who bob mueller. bob mueller is someone who is going to chase the facts down to their ultimate conclusion. i have to say that when you watch this, you're reminded that he has never really had any high profile failures. for someone who has been a prosecutor for the decades he has, it should really terrify anyone in the president's orbit who has committed a crime, who has done something wrong, or even who lied about whether or not they had done so. because he will get you. he will find you. >> we certainly have seen that play out a little bit, even though we have not heard from him. i personally am pafascinated to

from the man. nicolle wallace, thank you so much. thank you for coming on. coming up right after "kasie dc," catch nbc's "headliners" r mueller and what drives the man at the center of the russia investigation. we're back right after this. alright, i brought in high protein to help get us moving. ...and help you feel more strength and energy in just two weeks! i'll take that. -yeeeeeah! ensure high protein. with 16 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. ensure. always be you.

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before we go, let's talk about what you are watching in the week ahead. >> let's look at real estate news in new york. the kushner family has had terrible problems with their big premiere building at 666 fifth avenue. they owe more than a billion dollars on it. they are under water on the

mortgage. they have been looking for financing unsuccessfully. they are partnering that building and they are selling out to their partners. the question we will answer this week, who is providing the money the kushners will need to buy out that partner? >> is it foreign? . >> the decision on syria. the senior military leadership is coming to the white house for a meeting. he has advocated for a strong air strike plan at syria. last time the president, he was moved by the pictures he saw of children suffering from a chemical attack. those pictures have been on cable news all day today. they will be the next few days. he is going to be seeing them. how will that influence his decision? >> mark zuckerberg, never a dull moment.

hearings for pompeo to be the secretary of state. that does it for us tonight on "kasie dc." we will be back from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern next week. from now, good night from washington. i'm nicolle wallace. robert mueller and president donald trump, both men raised in privilege, both reaching the pinnacle of power. their journeys were different. one turned towards service. the other chased fortune. will lived in the spotlight. the other avoided it in. in 2017 these two worlds would collide in an investigation that could forever impact american politics. robert mueller is at the center of one of the biggest investigations in political history. >> mr. mueller had a conversation with president trump's attorneys on the russia probe.