with these federal agents working on the cohen case and her lawyer michael avenatti will be "the 11th hour"" tonight. i'll be back here at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. >> will he fire mueller? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight with his personal attorney firmly in the sights of federal prosecutors, president trump appears to be readying himself for a dramatic confrontation with special counsel robert mueller. as multiple news organizations have now reported the fbi yesterday conducted raids of michael cohen's office, his home and his hotel room and seized his computer, his phone and financial records as well as his correspondence with donald trump. the move has sent the president into a rage making a volatile,

already volatile situation worse. in and ominous press briefing today it, sarah huckabee sanders today said multiple times that the president does have the power to fire robert mueller. >> do you believe he has the power to fire special counsel robert mueller. >> certainly believes he has the power to do so. i know a number of individuals in the legal community including at the department of justice said he has the power to do so but i don't have any further announcements. >> they've said it's rod rosenstein oversees the special al and only he has the power. >> we've been advised the president certainly has the power to make that decision. i can't go anything beyond that. >> the "new york times" is reporting during the raid of cohen's office, "the fbi agents were looking for records about payments to two women who calculated they had affairs with mr. trump and information related to the publisher of the "national enquirer"'s role in

silencing one woman including the payment to stormy daniels and the payment made by account "national enquirer" to karen mcdougal. daniels is now cooperating with federal prosecutors. stormy daniels is working with the feds. the search warrants were sought. and executed by fbi agents and federal prosecutors in new york in coordination with mueller's team. to obtain them, prosecutors not only convinced a judge there was probable cause that cohen possessed evidence of a crime, they got the approval of deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who signed off on the decision. the president president yesterday denounced the raid and assailed the probe in an attempt to obscure the facts and characterized the legal search as a break-in and called the probe an attack on our country. and referring to the investigation in an apparent moment of candor, he said he wanted to keep it down.

>> so i just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, good man. and it's a disgraceful situation. it's a total witch hunt. i've been saying it for a long time. i've wanted to keep it down. it's frankly a real disgrace. it's an attack on our country in a true sense. >> well, in defending the president today, sarah sanders said trump believes the investigation has gone too far. >> sarah, talking about the raid on michael cohen's office, the president said it's an attack on our country. it's an attack on what we all stand for. in what way is an fbi raid on michael cohen's office an attack on our country? >> i think that the president has been clear that he thinks that this has gone too far and beyond that, i don't have anything to add. i would refer you back to the president's comments. >> joining me is michael schmidt reporter for "the new york

times," heidi przybyla with nbc news, chuck rosenburg, former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official and contributor, and paul butler, msnbc legal analyst. what do you make of huckabee sanders saying is obviously speaking for the president he has the right it out fire mueller, the man investigating him? >> it's front of minds for the president and i think the president. >> it's what? front of mind? >> this is something that he has talked about for almost a year now. since the day mueller was appointed. you now have this incredibly aggressive move. i think sometimes in this era, we get numb to what's going on. the justice department got a judge to sign off on this to go in to the president's lawyer's office to take these documents. that is -- they have to have a real reason to do that. this is not just sending out a subpoena to satisfy there wasn't a crime or asking someone questions in an interview. it's going to the heart of the

things that donald trump has said he's most concerned about. this red line that he put up with mueller. >> and heidi, good to see you. here's the question. why they afraid he was destroying property and evidence? >> that apparently had to be part of the calculation. from everything that i've read and from all the experts i've talked to, this had to be a really high bar to go ahead and raid a lawyer and the lawyer for the president of the united states. so they want had to believe that there was probable cause potentially there was a crime committed and that there was evidence that they would obtain in this raid. >> what would the crime be regarding stormy daniels or karen mcdougal, either payments for silence. >> and campaign financence. >> which would be a crime? >> campaign finance violations. >> campaign contributions. >> right. now there is a higher bar there, right? just the fact that it was 12 days can before the election alone isn't enough evidence. but there could be more evidence that they obtained there. also, the question of what trump

knew because they went in there and they didn't just, chris, take documents that might relate to stormy daniels. they took business records from the trump organization. remember, we don't nope what they're going to uncover because michael cohen was also involved, for example, in the moscow tower deal related to russia. so this could open up a thicket of additional information that comes out in all these documents they sized. >> chuck the old phrase an immoveable object, the president says you're not going to touch my business affairs he is. >> he is. he, bob mueller or the u.s. attorney in manhattan has the legal authority to do so. i think that's a really important point here, chris. i don't want to lose that point. this is done pursuant to law. this is done pursuant to the requirements of the fourth amendment to the constitution. which says that to take this stuff, you need probable cause. but you need more than that. heidi's right.

administratively you have to go to the very top of the department of justice and you have to have a federal judge agree that you have probable cause. >> isn't there the prosecutorial discretion. >> sure. >> just to take the president's side for a moment. if you were controlling mueller, he would say limit your investigation to russia and you ain't got nothing, do you? now, obviously mueller is not looking at it that way. >> so prosecutorial discretion is important but it's too early for prosecutorial discretion. first you gather the facts, then determine whether or not someone should had prosecuted and for what they ought to be prosecuted. yes, but you don't exercise that discretion normally in the middle of is it your investigation. >> would you investigate everything about the president? is that what's going on? >> as long as you have legitimate leads, it's predicated on factual information, you go ahead and you investigate the president. >> paul, let me get to the big question. this is the president talking through his spokesperson, sarah

huckabee sanders that he has the right to the fire mueller. mueller is proceeding ahead like a juggernaut. i've said before he seems like an iceberg. you don't know how big he is underneath the water. they charge, they indict 13 russians out of nowhere and go all over the place. now he pops up in these offices in new york, taking all the computer, the phone, he goes to the hotel room, he goes to the house. i mean, it is a complete clean-up job of anything to do with his sort of secret lawyer, the lawyer that we all believe trump uses for private matter. not all legal. not any of them illegal for sure but the quiet stuff. he's not got it all. >> yeah, so rod rosenstein didn't take the loyalty pledge. james comey didn't take at loyalty at this time pledge. michael cohen took the loyalty pledge possibly to the extent of committing crimes on behalf of his client, the president of the united states. and so what mueller is looking

at now is anything dirty that cohen has ever done. we know his strategy, chris, he likes to get people to plead guilty and then turn them against the president of the united states. so again, i think he's looking ultimately at trying to flip cohen. there's an attorney client privilege issue but cohen is kind of like roy cohn. he's kind of like mr. fix it. if he's doing things not on behalf of lawyer, not representing him as a lawyer but trying to help him with his business, that's not protected by the privilege. the other thing not protected by the privilege is trying to evade criminal activity by your client. >> "the new york times" reports mr. trump's advisers have spent the last 24 hours trying to convince the president not to the making an impulsive decision that could put him in more legal jeopardy. however the president continued to vent his frustrations on twitter this morning, calling the probe a total witch hunt and claiming that attorney/client

privilege is dead. let me go to michael. it's not a witch hunt. how many people now face a serious indictment in the how many people are cooperating? there's an awful lot of crime around the president. it may not all involve or any of it involve necessarily collusion with the russians but there's an awful lot of people with problems willing to sell themselves out and save themselves and nail trump. >> by this going up to new york and not being run out of mueller's offers, the executing of the search warrant gives a little more legitimacy to the process. it's not just bob mueller and these out of control democrats that that are biased and out to get the president. now these are line prosecutors in new yorking that have gone ahead and done this. the other thing is that with the special counsel you're talking about all these different things. they have the resources to look at all these different things. the president is this big public target. lots of things come in. they hear a lot of things.

they do a lot of interviews. there's a lot of subpoenas. the last thing they want to do is close up their investigation some day and have missed something. so you turn over every rock. >> you have a sit-com and ted danson ends up on another show and a new show called a spinoff. we have a spinoff investigation here now thanks to yesterday. it's not part of the mule ter investigation. it's another part. it's related to it. it comes from because it was in some way triggered by mueller but it's now the prosecutors in new york. >> it's not just a spinoff. but there could potentially be a strategy here, chris in, terms of removing this from any reach from the executive branch, right? now we're seeing some of these investigations farmed out to state attorneys who are outside the reach of the executive. we're seeing this at the same time that the rhetoric, you just saw from sarah huckabee sanders and we're seeing it also on the hill, chris from, republicans

now talking about potentially getting at mueller possibly rosenstein. >> mike the schmidt you've got a story running that the president tried to fire mueller in december. >> there was a story in december about a subpoena that had gone to deutsche bank that said that -- that was the initial report said it was directed at the president and his business dealings. the president did not like there idea. and this is gets at this issue of the red line, the looking into his finances and seriously considered firing mueller at that point. it didn't get to that point because they were able to figure out the president's lawyers that the story was wrong, there was some discussion with mueller's office. but it just shows how when the president thought that mueller had gone beyond that line, he was willing to do this or certainly willing to seriously consider it. now, you have to understand though, the president has talked

a lot in the past year about firing mueller. and sometimes his aides have ignored him, sometimes they've slow walked him. in the. >> who does he fire first? how does he fire him. >> he has to fire rosenstein. >> does very to get rid of sessions and put in a reappoi reappointment or someone else in the agency? >> here's how i think it would work. the president has enormous powers as head of the executive branch. one of his powers would be to repeal the special counsel regulations. once they are repealed, he could either fire mueller or order someone to fire mueller. it's not entirely clear what the path is. >> how does he repeal it. >> it's not a statute, it's a regulation. as the head of the executive branch he has authority tort repeal or prom you great regulations. can he do it, i think the answer is yes. >> go ahead. >> people say it would be a constitutional crisis if he does

that. it wouldn't be a constitutional crisis. because the remedy is clearly spelled out. impeachment. it would be a political crisis, however, because it would be up to the republicans who control the house to act. and if i'm advising trump as his lawyer, i might say call their bluff. >> well, let me ask you, paul, let's talk this in terms of the smart move for trump. let's assume you're his lawyer right now. it looks to me like this can iceberg coming at his titanic is going to get him eventually because it keeps looking and looking and looking for ways in which he may have broken the law. it is like that. maybe it's all legitimate within the prosecutorial discretion and mandate after the special counsel to find anyplace that later on can turn up as a criminal violation of this president. the odds are having come out of new york real estate and being donald trump they will find something. if you're trump, what do you do knowing that? >> you have your lawyer, first

of all, you get a lawyer you. get a good criminal defense lawyer and i have him make the case to mueller that this investigation centers around collusion and unless mueller comes up with evidence that trump himself conspired to steal the election, then anything else is he off the table or some kind of clear allegations of obstruction of justice or frankly, i don't think we would see obstruction charges without really clear evidence of collusion against account president. that's the president's best case to make that he wasn't involved with the russians directly in trying to steal the election. again, if mueller has evidence of that, then all bes are off for the president. >> chuck, i still agree with paul on that. i think to win this case for the american people, that means the center, not the hard right but the center and the left which you already have much of the left on impeachment. to win the case you have to show he involved himself with the russians you can't just find we couldn't find anything on collusion but we found this other stuff.

i don't think that will pass muster. what's your belief. i think you're right. i'm going to defer to you politically because i don't know politics the way you do. legally that's not the case. legally if they -- first of all. >> i asked the political question because the house representatives needs 218 to impeach. >> right. >> you need 67 senators or 68 to convict and emove from office. that's a high -- we're talking about a high barrier. >> that's a very high barrier. if the only resolution would be impeachment meaning if we decide you can't charge a sitting president and i think by the way that's probably true, then politically you're absolutely right. if you can charge a sitting president, then in my mind the question is a legal one and not a political one. >> heidi? where are we at? >> the timing is interesting. > what does mueller need to win to put it bluntly? what does he need to win in history that this whole thing was purposeful. >> look at his history in the

prosecuting previous cases like enron. there were waves of charges. the first wave in the enron case where is obstruction of justice. i think all along, we've all said that that is the low hanging fruit especially when he's bringing in people like hope hicks who were on that plane drafting inaccurate statements, that is the easiest, the collusion that could go on for many, many more months and maybe years. >> do you think michael, we're getting near at end of the segment. are you thinking the fact that trump was thinking of firing him in december in your reporting for tomorrow morning, do you think possibly mueller is somewhat gaming this, i don't mean it negatively, pushing trump because he thinks he's a bad customer thinking he might spring loose and fire him and therefore, make the case for obstruction big-time. >> no, i don't think so. i don't think he needs to. the president seems to inflict himself in different ways without the help of others. if you look at all of these

questions, why was mueller appointed, what is mueller looking at, much of it including the president's own political problems outside of mueller come back to things he did himself. and were not existential things that came ot him. >> can't put it better. michael, heidi, chuck and paul, coming up today the white house press secretary said they believe at the white house the president has the power to fire robert mueller who is prosecuting him. what happens if trump does it? what do republican dozen then? they say mueller's not in danger but trump is clearly thinking about firing him pep thought about doing it in december and even close allies are warning the president not to do it. who is going to stop trump now? john kelly? give me a break. plus the raid on trump's attorney's office comes as the president is considering a military strike on syria. that could come as early as tonight. as trump decides what to do in syria, he's dealing with more staff exis and investigation hanging right over his head now.

the raid yesterday on michael cohen is just the latest example of the smell of scandal surrounding trump and his administration and it starts at the top. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. this is "hardball" where the action is. [driver] so, we took your shortcut, which was a bad idea. [cougar growling] [passenger] what are you doing? [driver] i can't believe that worked. i dropped the keys. [burke] and we covered it. talk to farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino! find a price that fits. tripadvisor. i needthat's whenvice foi remembered

that my ex-ex- ex-boyfriend actually went to law school, so i called him. he didn't call me back! if your ex-ex- ex-boyfriend isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal. snoomplt in light of that fbi raid on trump's lawyer's office, sarah huckabee sanders today was asked a pointed question about the future of the trump presidency. let's watch. >> next question. with all of this turmoil particularly this last week, has the president at any time thought about stepping down? >> no, and i think that's an absolutely ridiculous question. >> that was april ryan with a great question. we'll be right back with the news we're learning tonight that trump sought to fire mulener december. disaster. this year, they're not messing around. miracle-gro guarantees results

with rich potting mix that uses ingredients fresh from the forest... and plant food that adds vital nutrition so you'll have three times the blooms. they bask in their success. miracle-gro. three times the beauty. one powerful guarantee. which is why i use armor tall ultra shine wash wipes.y. they effectively remove dirt, dust and grime with no water. that car is in tip top shape! we are both in tip top shape! armor all, it's easy to look good. it's ok that everyone ignores it's fine. drive. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it.

oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. xfinity mobile: find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. this tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it's a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. . why don't i just fire

mueller? well, i think it's a disgrace what's going on. we'll see what happens. but i think it's really a sad situation when you look at what happened. many people have said, you should fire him. again, they found nothing. and in finding nothing, that's a big statement. so we'll see what happens. i think it's disgraceful and so does a lot of other people. this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump openly musing whether he should fire special counsel robert mueller who is investigating him. trump's refusal to rule out the possibility has some inside the white house worried he could take dras if i can action. his press stkz sarah sanders said trump believes he has the power to fire the guy. just minutes ago, "the new york times" reported that trump sought to fire mueller as recently as december after mueller subpoenaed documents from deutsche bank. one-time trump transition chief

is chris christie said the president is aware of the consequences. >> i think the president is really angry about this and expressed that yesterday. i think he does understand it. but i think there's lots of people who are concerned that you know, his reaction to this may overcome what he's been told. it's a big problem. i've told him that. you can't fire the special counsel. you just can't. >> you just can't. but some of the president's republican allies on capitol hill warned of political perils of such an action. >> i have confidence in mueller. the president ought to have confidence in muler. and i think to answer your question, it would be suicide for the president to want to talk about firing mueller. >> i'm not concerned that he'll fire mueller. i don't think he'll fire rosenstein. i can't think of any reason to do it. i'm confident that would be the beginning of the end of his presidency. he's not going do that. >> i think the president is too smart to fire mr. mueller.

if he did, it wouldn't end the investigation. >> for more i'm joined by pennsylvania republican congressman charlie dent. thank you for this. what is the feeling among members of the house you talk to on the republican side of the aisle about trump'sization? he knows what he's done wrong. he may not know how illegal some of the things he did were wrong but he knows much more than lindsey graham or charlie grassley or chuck grassley knows. he knows what he faces from mueller. so i don't really care what anybody else says except what will they do if he fires mueller. >> well, i'll tell you what, at least the republican colleagues i've been speaking with think it would be a devastating mistake for the president to fire director mueller under any circumstances. i think most of us recognize this would it be the equivalent of a saturday nice massacre, arch can bald cox moment, politically paralyzing even more so than we already are, debilitating. i don't know how he would be

able to function. that would consume everything, firing of mueller. he has to trust director mueller and let him do his work. he's a man of honor and integrity. as trey gowdy said, if you believe you've done nothing wrong, act like it. >> do you believe trump believes he's done nothing wrong in his business affairs? >> i have no idea what he bleenz it seems to me that this issue is even more serious now than it was two days ago. i can't imagine that doj and the fbi would on a whim enter into the office and the home of the personal attorney of the president of the united states. >> you're saying two different things. explain why trump will never let anybody see his tax returns why he keeps coming up with this fib, lie he's being audited. he would never let anybody see his tax returns in the election. you're saying you trust him, you don't think he's done anything wrong. has nothing to hide. >> i didn't say that.

no, is chris, i said you should had trust mueller to do the investigation. >> but mueller's coming at him. he's got something to hide. mueller is going to find it and then he's dead. right? >> if you're asking me, should the president release his tax returns? of course, he should. he should be much more transparent than he has been. i'm sure direct ker mueller find out what he needs to know. i can't understand why the president had has been reluctant to release it. i suspect he'll concerned about financial entanglements. >> there's things we know. we know his lawyer michael cohen paid $130,000 to stormy dans to keep quiet. we now there was money paid to the owners of the "national enquirer" to buy and kill the story of karen mcdougal. i'm not god talking about the morality of this. i'm talking the legality. there are questions whether she is constitute implicit campaign cricks by those involved particularly mr. cohen to the campaign of donald trump.

therefore should have been filed under the fec laws. >> that's a fair question. we're back to the john edwards matter. i'll tell you, i can't understand, i think mr. cohen has a real problem here if the president is to be believed, he seemed to indicate he had no awareness of michael cohen entering into this agreement with ms. daniels. >> right. >> which strikes me as very unusual. how can you enter into an agreement on behalf of your client if your client is not aware of it. i think this is a huge problem particularly for mr. cohen but obviously for the president. >> there's also the pattern here, what they call the m.o. in criminal justice. the president's tendency is to use his enormous wealth to cover cup problems. it's logical. of course, if he had a problem he didn't want anybody to know about a week before the election involving miss daniels, he would pay her some some a-money pep

paid the "national enquirer" to buy the story about mcdueling and kill it. if that's his practice, you want to know a lot of stuff in the papers of michael coe len. else is in his documents and his fuel drawers in his phone, in his house in, his hotel room, in his office? all that stuff is now in the hands of the special, u.s. prosecutors in new york. isn't that something for him to be afraid of? >> absolutely. look, all those questions you just asked, well, that's exactly what it appears that d.o.j. and the fbi are trying to get answers to right now. they're going to be asking those questions about who paid the $130,000, was there a reimbursement. you know, what did the president know, when did he know it. you know this is what they're after. >> why doesn't trump fire mule fer he can, put in there somebody who has passed muster with the u.s. senate who promises to narrow the scope of this investigation to russian

collusion, period? why doesn't he do that. >> i'm being devil's advocate. i don't know why he doesn't figure out a way out of this thing. isn't the president smart? >> well, look, politically, i just capital see any good coming of firing director mueller even if he said i'm going to replace him with somebody better. look, this investigation as one of your previous guests stated this is going to go on with or without mueller. firing mueller would be i think a politically catastrophic error for the president. i don't know if it's legally catastrophic. at a point like this this is where our leaders in the house and senate have to have a conversation with the president about not doing anything that would be so detrimental to the country. >> do you think the speaker of the house should tell the president that, don't fire mueller? >> that's what they get paid the big bucks for. somebody has to deliver that message sooner or later.

somebody has to man up and ando it. we have the tillis cons bill that would protect the special prosecutor. >> have you told paul ryan to tell the president that? >> no, but i think i'm getting ready to if i'm to believe what aim hearing. > charlie, you can do it right now. tell the speaker to tell the president don't fire mueller. >> i may have a conversation with him this week. >> report back if you do. cheryl dent of pennsylvania. up next, this fbi raid on trump's lawyers office comes as the president is xwrapalling with an international crisis, of course. what is trump's mind set as he debates a possible military strike soon on syria? this is "hardball" where the action is. i've always wanted to have a photo exhibit of the faces of our community and those people that create the heart and the soul

of where we live. directer: so i think we can make that happen oh my gosh, you're kidding me. introducing the suv equipped to make your first-ever happen. the first-ever ford ecosport is here. introyou wouldn't acceptpped to mfrom any one else.r happen. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. hello. give me an hour in tanning room 3. cheers! that's confident. but it's not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to help me plan the best trip. so i'm more than confident. forgot me goggles. kayak. search one and done.

ythen you turn 40 ande everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay? i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay." i like that. you may need glasses though. yeah. schedule a complimentary goal planning session today with td ameritrade.

hello. let's go for a ride on a peloton. let's go grab a couple thousand friends and chase each other up a hill. let's go make a personal best, then beat it with your personal better than best. let's go bring the world's best instructors right to you. better yet, let's go bring the entire new york studio - live. let's go anytime, anywhere, with anyone who's willing. and let's go do it all right here. ready to go? peloton.

here we are talking about syria, we're talking about a lot of serious things with the greatest fighting force ever. and i have this witch hunt constantly going on for over 12 months now. >> welcome back to "hardball." surrounded by his generals and national security -- that was quite a scene last night. he complained the mueller investigation continued to hang over his head. it was a striking scene. look at that table with all those high ranking field rank generals and admirals. as the president fumed about his personal legal troubles he faced one of his most significant foreign policies to date. how to respond to a purported

chemical attack by the syrian regime. bashar al assad's government denied involvement. last night trump seemed to indicate military action was imminent. >> and we're taking a decision as to what we do with respect to the horrible attack that was made near damascus and it will be met and it will be met forcefully. we can't let atrocities like we all witnessed and you can see that and it's horrible, we can't let that happen. >> what are your options? >> thank you. >> we have a lot of options militarily. we'll be letting you know pretty soon. >> today, the president's spokesperson said he was canceling a trip to latin america this week. sarah huckabee sanders said the president will remain in the united states tons oversee the american response to syria and monitor developments around the world. for more i'm joined bid jonathan

swan, axios and mieke eoyang, the think tank third way. here's the tricky question. is this a wag the dog situation? >> is he likely to be more militant, more hawkish to shift the headlines? i noticed the head lines are about two-thirds syria despite the story yesterday the fbi entered the offices of his attorney. and yet, it is the main story, the main story in the major papers right now is right now not syria, it's the going into the offices of michael cohen to look for stuff on trump. is he going to try to rejiger the headlines? you know the guy. >> if he was trying to distract from that, i don't know that he would have opened up that session yesterday and talked about the mueller thing and the cohen thing and made it the blanket news coverage for that evening. i think the other data point is look, trump is very contradictory on syria and has contradictory impulses. he's been telling them we need

to get out. >> no stupid wars. >> waste wasting our money and lives. every time he sees ins of these children, it has a different effect on him. this happened last year with the strike. i don't remember there being something wag the doggish at this moment. >> mieke, there is president talks like this is really bugging him, hanging on me. i should be talking to the brass, the generals and admirals instead of lawyers. something's got to give here. >> right. jonathan is right. he is very contradictory. he wants to lash out. now he's got the new national security adviser john bolton who is very hawkish and never met a military intervention he doesn't like encouraging him to go. >> he's more likely to go against syria than mueller. >> at the same time. >> will you answer that question. >> >> which is he more likely to strike, east or west? >> that's the real question. i think he feels mueller is the

bigger threat to him. if he's going to do something to try and shut down the investigation. >> you made the point. he can fight syria but still has mueller coming at him. >> and fighting syria is going to piss off putin. that brings him into direct conflict with the russians. they're backing assad who is the one who may have set off the chemical weapons. >> i think it's awful. lawrence o'donnell talked about wag the dog. we know what it means, it means shift attention overseas to cover up a personal embarrassment or scandal. that's been done. >> he's absurd. he's putting attention on the mueller stuff explicitly. i don't understand that argument. >> let's talk about how he does business. tell me, you're the expert. how does trump -- can he compartmentalize the way clinton could. >> no, he's got no capacity to do that. this has been preoccupying him. people last night said they were very worried and hadn't seen him this angry the whole time

they've worked for him. every time mueller crosses the line that tends to encroach on his business affairs -- >> because he was a new york businessman. when he puts had his head on the pillow tonight and last night, what was he worrying about, mueller or bashar al assad. >> pillow talk, i won't there. >> axios, guys are specialists. >> i have no idea what was in his head. before he hit the pillow, he was incredibly agitated making phone calls and talking about this guy crossing the lines. >> thank you, jonathan and mika eoyang. more on tonight's news that is trump sought to fire special counsel robert mueller in december. he reportedly told aides that the investigation had to be shut down. that's what he said. what's he going to do now? you're watching "hardball." my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats.

i went to the er. they said i had afib. afib? what's afib? i knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. i needed answers. once i got the facts, my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected from a stroke. once-daily xarelto®, a latest-generation blood thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. in a clinical study, over 96% of people taking xarelto® remained stroke-free. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. for afib patients well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® compares in reducing the risk of stroke. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding

if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. ♪ come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. ♪ a hilton getaway means you get more because you get a break on breakfast get an extra day by the pool get to spend more time together get more from your spring break getaway with exclusive hilton offers. book yours, only at hilton.com

welcome back to "hardball."

as we said earlier in the show, "the new york times" is reporting tonight and tomorrow morning donald trump wanted to fire mueller in december in an effort to shut down the russia probe. this is the second reported instance of the president trying to fire mueller follow agattempt in june of last year. according to "the new york times," the president furious over news reports about a new round of subpoenas from the office of the special counsel told advises are in no uncertain terms mr. mueller's investigation had to be shut down. and that report comes the same day that you sarah huckabee sanders said president trump has the power and right to fire mueller. for more i'm joined by anita cume mar with mcclatchy nooups, cornell belcher, political analyst and michael steele, also an msnbc political analyst. right down the road, this is a roundtable. i don't know what's going to happen. i have watched a lot of crime shows whatever it is, where the criminal knows everything that he or she did. they know it all.

trump knows pretty much all that he's done. he doesn't know what's necessarily illegal, how bad it is. but he's done a lot of stuff. here's a guy looking for everything who is not stopping at anything. there's no red lines for muler. what do you do? it seems like a shakespearean conundrum. take up arms against a sea of troubles. this is hamlet stuff. is he going to fight for his life or not? >> this is the second incident where he's talking about this. it appears if the "new york times" quoted eight people saying he was looking at this. it does appear serious. this is the guy who said, this is the president who said the red line for him was his businesses. and so this incident has to deal with his businesses when mueller went after subpoenas on his business. and so he always said, look, how close he's kept his businesses. he still owns them. >> he won't let us see histach returns. >> won't let us see histach returns. he won't part with his

businesses and still profit from his businesses. >> cornell, one of his businesses is stormy daniels. they got a $130,000 business deal because she isn't supposed to talk. another one apparently with karen mcdougal which is the "national enquirer" should pay for her story but never print it. this is part of the story why they went into cohen's office to get that stuff. >> he is clearly hiding something. you don't go to all this trouble hide t. dent who said it's cat tastroph. >> they don't know what he's done. it's easy for them to say come clean, mr. president. >> clearly something's going on he doesn't want the special prosecutor to get to. he's going to call speaker ryan and mitch mcconnell's bluff on this because he does not want this to come out. >> michael, what would you do if

you were trump? you got all the problems he had, would you fire mueller or just let the course of history. >> he wouldn't be in that trouble. >> b, if i knew that there was an inkling of connecting dots i would do what the president is doing. i would make the case, i'd lay down the predicate for firing ultimately firing. the thing about this, he doesn't have to fire directly. he can fire indirectly. this is a bank shot through rosenstein, through the attorney general. he will find the perfect way to do this. so that he can go back and say i didn't fire him. this guy fired him. so that's the bank shot he's looking for despite his. >> what's he waiting for? >> he's waiting for the right lineup i think to do that. i think also the problem he's having who replays these individuals. because the pressure and scrutiny on that person whether it's a rod rosenstein figure or an attorney general figuring. > there's the conumb

introduction again. he puts a man or woman, republican democrat, independent, civil servant. first thing on his mind, can i trust hip not to explore the possibilities that mueller is going into. the "associated press" is reporting president trump still fuming after the raid on his attorney's office has privately pondered firing rod rosenstein and mused about firing special counsel robert mueller. >> here we are. i guess it's true. >> he's thinking about doing something. >> he is calling the congress's bluff. if congress wanted to protect the special counsel, they could have already done so. they have the bill. they're not doing anything with it. if they wanted to go after the president in all sorts of ethical issues, the house oversight committee is looking into things, the committee chairman won't subpoena records. so they're not serious about some of these investigations. so why not? >> of cornell, why doesn't he

make his move now that he's got a republican house that won't impeach him? have a summary judgment and say basically to the special counsel, if have you got anything on collusion? if but don't, you're out of here. >> there's a reason you see so many house democrats and senate and house republicans saying this is catastrophic. politically, not legally. but midterms. 5% majority of republicans saying you shouldn't fire and college educated white women in the suburbs breaking away from the president this way, it would be a typhoon not a blue wave if he fires him. >> why does he keep say is disgrace, that was his key. he had one word and he keeps saying it over and over. he's priming the pump for a firing. >, of course. that's what he's been doing probably since that december backing him off the ledge of firing rosenstein or the special counsel at that time. he has been using these words and these phrases that indicate a, his frustration, and b, his

intent. and i think that right now, he is at particularly having cleared out a lot of folks inside the west wing where he's kind of on his own. >> sure is. >> doing it the way he wants to do it, he doesn't see anyone who can stop him. to your point about the republicans, this is their come to jesus moment because if i'm in the leadership, i'm going to put that bill on the floor and get it passed because if they don't, then it's going to be hard as hell for them not to stand with this president and then go into an election this november and say to the american people. >> i'm going to stick you with this. we've had these come to jesus moments before. billy bush got fired. this president sailed right through and the republican party was totally with him. when is this coming to jesus coming. > they'll be with him. will the voters take that. >> the roundtable is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball."

whether it's a big thing, small thing, or something unexpected, pnc will be right there when you need us. because when it comes to your finances, if you focus on today, tomorrow has a way of working itself out. your digestive system has billions of bacteria, if you focus on today, but life can throw them off balance. try align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. with a unique strain that re-aligns your system. re-align yourself, with align.

a program note this sunday i'm going those a special documentary on former fbi director james comey. what a time to hit with this. 4ed liners james comey airs this sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. got to watch it. this guy's in the news and he's got a book coming. we'll be right back. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over ten years. it's the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. more than 250,000 patients have chosen humira to fight their psoriasis.

and they're not backing down. for most patients clearer skin is the proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems. serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask your dermatologist about humira & go. feet go here.... you know what goes here... and your approval rating... goes here. test drive the ztrak z540r

it's these new fresh-fx car air fresheners from armor all. each scent can create a different mood in my car. like tranquil skies. we are back with the roundtable. anita, tell me something i don't know. >> we hear so often the trump base still with him. we found cracks in the base. we talked to over two dozen people across the country from all kinds of states where they're saying they're upset

these diehard trump supporters with him from day one aren't getting any of these jobs in the states. federal jobs in the states. >> the soybean problem. >> the opposite of drain the swamp or something. >> thank you nita kumar. cornell bell cler and michael steele. let me finish tonight with trump watch. it's a wild one. sfx: muffled whistle text alert. i'm your phone, stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling.

jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands? and i heard that my cousin's so, wife's sister's husband was a lawyer, so i called him. but he never called me back! if your cousin's wife's sister's husband isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

tripadvisor compares prices from over 200 booking sites to time to bask... in low prices! find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. refreshing, isn't it?. tripadvisor. discover card. i justis this for real?match, yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

10th, 2018. in east africa, they call them

the wabenzi big shot government officials who drive around in their mercedes-benzs. here in washington they're called the trump people, they fly first class, find great housing at ridiculously low cost and some demand moerth kad escorts guarded by security. weren't these the characters who were going to drain the swamp. yas arafat had a deal where to get an interview with him you had to reserve a whole floor of hotel rooms so a relative got a hit. today we have international leaders coming and staying at trump's hotel on pennsylvania avenue. what better way to upgrade your go will with the u.s. president than letting him know where you're standing. the president of pan na was written demanding better service of that government. instead of acting like government servants, they spend government money jazzing up their offices taking trips to morocco by way of paris or was that to paris by way of morocco?

didn't trump run against these deep state boys who think they own the country? how do we end up with the american version of the african guys riding around in their benzs? thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> one day after the raid, the white house takes aim at at special counsel. >> we've been advised that the president certainly has the power to make that decision. >> tonight, new reporting on the trump appointee who signed off on the cohen raid and new details what investigators were looking for as we learned stormy daniels is cooperating with investigators. plus the eerie silence from the republican national committee over the raid of its deputy finance chair. as we learn that facebook is cooperating with the mueller probe, what happened when