xfinity watchathon week. television is back, starting april 16th, enjoy free access to tv's hottest shows from netflix, hbo, showtime, starz and more with xfinity on demand or the xfinity stream app. you'll want to tap out of your regular life and go binge while someone else stands in. blargh uhhmm. good luck. blargh uhhmm. that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. right now it is time for "a.m. joy" with my friend joy reid. >> president-elect trump's first question to confirm that it had no impact on the election and then the conversation to my

surprise moved into a pr conversation about how the trump team would position this and what they could say about this that no one to my recollection asked. so what's coming next from the russians, how might we stop it, what's the future look like. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." in a move that has donald trump rage tweeting all morning, former fbi director james comey is spilling all the tea with a new book and media blitz starting tonight. telling his version of events surrounding the 2016 election in the early days of the trump administration. while it may be seen as an attempt to clear his name, comey is after all the man the clinton camp blames for their loss. he pulls no punches when it comes to donald trump. in his book he describes in detail trump's attempts to bring him into a mafia like political family that values loyalty to donald trump above all else. the quote, forest fire, that is the trump administration.

trump world and its allies in the gop are already on the attack. >> comey be forever known as a disgraced partisan hack. >> i'm disappointed in james comey. i'll be honest with you. this book should be on the fiction shelf. >> you're a pommus, eag tiscal, conkrending holier than thousand. >> this book is salacious. he discredits himself. >> have you read it? >> no, i haven't read it. >> she hasn't read it. try as they might they'll have a lot of trouble distracting from the fact of the russia probe. >> honestly, i never thought these words would come out of my mouth but i don't know whether the current president of the united states moscow in 2013, it's possible, but i don't know. >> welcome to comey week. joining me now tim o'brien, danny is a val loss, betsy woodruff and natasha bertrand.

thank you all for being here. tim, i got to go to you first. comey writes about the january 27 dinner that he had one-on-one with the then newly elected president. the setup of the dinner, both the physical layout of a private meal and trump's pretense that he had not already asked me to stay on multiple occasions convinced me that this was an effort to establish a patronage relationship, somebody probably had told him or maybe it just occurred to him at random that he had given me the job for free and he needed to get something in return. this only added to the strangest of the experience, the president of the united states had invited me to dinner and decided my job security is on the menu. trump hadn't even given him the job. he was just supposed to stay on. what do you make of donald trump's apparent attempts to bring james comey in his sort of mafia-like family in comey's

words? >> later he also asked comey to go gently on michael flynn. so clearly what was going through the president's mind was loyalty, bring him into the fold. that's known of the trump universe forever. if you're going to be with him on his team in any capacity then you owe him personal loyalty and that's not loyalty to an institution, loyalty to the flag, it's loyalty to the president and, in fact, this morning trump is emphasizing this in his tweets. >> no kidding. he's going ham on comey, so to speak. >> let me play for you another piece of the interview on abc that probably is what trump is so angry about this morning as he's out there and this is interesting, because it's trump asking comey to investigate the infamous tape referenced in the christopher steele dossier. listen. >> he may want me to investigate it to prove it didn't happen and then he says, something that distracted me, because even a 1%

chance my wife thinks that's true, that's terrible and i remember thinking, how could you wife think there's a 1% chance you were with prostitutes peeing on each other in moscow, i'm a flawed human being, but this is literally zero chance my wife would think that's true, to what kind of marriage to what kind of man there's only a 99% chance you didn't do that. >> the reason i come to you on this, danny, is because we're in a moment where donald trump's personal lawyer is accused of paying off a porn star who donald trump claims he didn't have a relationship with but $130,000 say maybe he's wrong, where there's accusations of ami that owns "the national enquirer" was providing catch and kill money that donald trump was having relationships with. so this leads me to wonder -- we were talking about this with the team this morning, could this be donald trump wanting the fbi to

investigate yet another potential piece of evidence of infidelity that he might want his lawyers to take care of? >> it's an interesting concept that if donald trump -- and one thing we know, he has a fundamentally misunderstanding of how government works and just based on comey's observations that under that interview, that he misunderstood the difference between the white house as a p.r. and the intelligence as an investigators. he may have misunderstood government enough to want comey to act as an arm of his own pr and i mean donald trump's pr mission which goes out acquires this information, and then the question is what would he have -- trump had done if comey had found evidence of this and would he have sent michael cohen under the theory that michael cohen is his fixer. it's an interesting concept. i can't stress enough that we do not yet know with the southern

district of new york was investigating when they executed that search warrant and it's possible that it may be related to this pattern or practice of paying to kill stories. >> that's why i think of it. you want to read one more piece here from the book and this is the direct comparison that jim comey makes between donald trump and a mob boss. ethical leaders never ask for loyalty. he had asked for this loyalty oath. those leading through fear, like a kosa no, sir tra boss require personal loyalty. to my mind, the demand was like sammy the bull's cosa nostra induction ceremony, with trump in the role of the family boss, asking me if i have what it takes to be a mad man, what's distressing was trump symbolically seemed to be ask leaders of the law enforcement and national security agency to do, to come forward and kiss the great man's ring.

was trump directly in any way ever involved in that? would he have gotten this thematics personally? >> he had partners when he first went into the atlantic city market who were mobbed up. one of his partners was a bag man for the scarfo crime family of philadelphia and another one of his partners was a labor rack tear from new york. we know fast-forward decades later, the trump soho felix seder was a career criminal. intersectioned with organized crimes are not novel to the president. the second thing to remember about him, is, he's macho and he loves the rituals of threat and malis and menace and he's fascinated by the rituals of the

mob. >> i want to get natasha in here on the plip side of this. james comey gets a lot of credit for some things. he gets credit for the famous going to john ashcroft, the ill attorney general's bedside to stop the white house at the time, the george w. bush white house from trying to get him to sign off on warrant is wiretapping. he gets credit for that and some statements he's made on race and policing. what a lot of particularly democrats hold against him is the fact that he did intervene in the election in 2016 coming out 11 days before the election and announcing they were restarting the e-mail investigation into hillary clinton. here's what he writes about that in the book. its entirely possible that because i was making decisions in an environment where hillary clinton was sure to be the next president, my concern about making her a legitimate -- an ill-legitimate president by concealing the restarted investigation bore greater weight than it would have if the

investigation were closer. donald trump is included that in his tweet storm this morning in trying to make it sound like this indicates corruption on comey's part. just based on your reporting, is this one of the things that the rnc plans to add to its thematic attacks on james comey? >> one of the profound ironies of trump's attacks on jim comey are comey actually did a lot to help trump during the election. he did not come out and say that trump was under investigation, that his campaign was under investigation for potential ties in the fbi and the same goes for president obama. he was very reluctant to reveal that there was substantial russian meddling in the election for fear that it would look like they were interfering just days before, months before the election was going to take place. this is something that is, again, a profound irany of all this. comey has a few unconventional allies at this point because in the way he tried to keep the fbi

above politics, actually plunged them further into the political realm. he was trying to make it seem like the attorney general -- that the fbi was not influenced by potential conflicts of interest by the attorney general loretta lynch so he came out and he gave that press conference exonerating clinton for using the e-mail the private e-mail server. at the same time he also had -- its worth noting that there were separate motivations for him to do the things he did. there was a fake russian document that was circulating in the fbi that perhaps that was written by supposedly by a democratic operative that suggested that loretta lynch was perhaps in some way compromised and she was doing favors for the clintons by not pursuing the e-mail investigation as aggressively as she could have. that document is still unknown whether or not it was actually fake. the fbi doesn't know at this point. that may have been influenced james comey's thinking.

and there were reports leading up to the election there were elements within the fbi that were prepared to go on a full on revolt if james comey did not reveal the existence of these e-mails 11 days before the election. there were external factors here and we saw that one of trump's closest allies rudy giuliani was saying he had something up that his sleeve wlosht that meant he was going to put james comey in a position where he himself knew the existence of these e-mails and the fbi was going to wait until after the election to reveal them, that would have made james comey and the fbi look like they were hiding something. so he's really between a rock and a hard place. i will reiterate that he did not reveal that trump was under investigation for potential collusion with the russians and that ultimately was the biggest gift he could have given the trump campaign. >> absolutely. they describe the fbi as trump land during the campaign. first of all, i will say that the comey does include something

to help himself. he talks about it in a meeting with president obama then outgoing president obama in a post election november meeting. obama said to you, i picked you to be the fbi director because of your integrity and ability. i want you to know that nothing, nothing has happened in the last year to change my view. comey's hanging on that for his emotional health probably knowing deep in his heart he did help get donald trump in. i want to play janine piero, the big defender of donald trump. rebutting the possibility that there is indeed a pea tape. >> jim, you say the president was concerned when you presented him with your fake dossier alleging the president had prostitutes peeing on him in moscow and of course, just to hit the president a little more and to get a great headline, you say this. >> but i don't know whether the

current president of the united states had prostitutes peeing on him in 2013. it's possible but i don't know. >> jim, it's possible. and it's possible martians were in that room peeing on the prostitutes too. >> martians, martians peeing on the prostitutes too. betsy woodruff, you've done great reporting for us. on donald trump's strange and evolving legal team situation, what can you tell us based on your reporting about whether or not this possibility that i raise with danny earlier might be the case, that donald trump seemed to have had an interest in maybe potentially having the fbi investigate whether or not there was indeed a tape, find it and then who knows what he might have had michael cohen do about that? >> what i can tell you might sound obvious and that's the president doesn't have a very good grasp of what the fbi is supposed to do. over the course of his time in public life and president, the

way he relates to the fbi is pretty dramatically divorced from what the fbi as an institution is actually responsible for doing, which is federal law enforcement. now at the same time, of course, the president's attacks on james comey, the president isn't the only person who's attacked him. going back to what comey talks about in that book where he refers to president obama sort of encouraging him, that moment of the book is a really important one because comey took so much heat for elected democrats and one thing i can tell you from my reporting is that something criticism of comey from democrats is something that i know for a fact is highlighted in the rnc talking points that went out friday that go after comey. i obtained a copy of those talking points and they name a number of elected democrats who in the wake of comey's announcement criticized him, they named bernie sanders, dianne feinstein, chuck schumer, all sorts of democrats going after comey. the fact that comey in this book is able to basically cite obama as telling him that he thought he had integrity and he thought

he did the best he could do, that itself is important and that's something which was inconceivable of president trump ever telling comey. remember, though, another piece of this that's just weird in all this context is that back months and months ago when trump first fired comey, the justification that officially first came out of the white house press job for why that firing happened was that it was because comey hadn't handled the clinton e-mail scandal correctly which turned out to be just flatly not true. this is a white house that doesn't talk about the fbi as the fbi exists. >> yeah. then he turned around and ruined that talking point by telling our lester holt, no, it was because of russia this. book is driving donald trump to distraction this weekend. it's going to be the talk of the town and i'm sure donald trump have more to say about it on the twitter. tim o'brien sticking around. thank you all. up next, the thing, the thing that has donald trump melting down. it might not even be this. stay with us.

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personal attorneys, good man and it's a disgraceful situation, it's a total witch hunt. >> before this jim comey tellall sent him into full meltdown modes, he was already on the edge after monday's fbi raid on the offices of his personal attorney, michael cohen. according to the "the new york times," trump sees the corruption investigation into cohen as a bigger threat than the mueller probe. after the cohen raid sources told cnn that trump is, quote, pissed, flailing and upset and his anger is beyond what anyone can imagination. so, one can only imagine what trump will do next. here to help me try to imagine it is tim o'brien and tara dell. let's start with you tara. every time i hear another story about trump beginning a new level of rage i discount it because he's also enraged. can you -- both of you know the man, is this different and is it

different because cohen is so close? >> i think this is different, and i know we say that every time but i think each time is different. each time is different in different ways. i do think this is different because cohen, who is bragged about i don't want to be captain obvious here, he's bragged about being trump's fixer, right? what does a fixer do? he fixes situations when you would otherwise be in trouble of the so clearly cohen knows where all the bodies are buried and also what we know about cohen is cohen isn't particularly incompetent so the fact that they were able to access these tapes and all of these things that any one else would say this investigation is getting pretty close, maybe i should expose of this some of these things. all of this stuff was easily accessed and that's because of the lack of competence of michael cohen and shamelessness of their behavior. >> i want to get into a little bit. we've heard so many names thrown around, manafort, roger stone,

all these people that do go back with trump. cohen is distinct. he spent nearly a decade in trump's real estate company as an employee from 2015 to 2016 he participated in negotiations to bud a trump tower in moscow of the something trump really wanted. he was an informal adviser to the trump campaign. he was the one who paid the $130,000 to stormy daniels claiming he did it with a home equity loan. then he becomes his personal attorney after trump takes office. he promoted this peace plan for ukraine that would have ended u.s. sanctions against russia and let them keep crimea. he became the rnc deputy finance chairman. and here is cohen speaking for himself talking about his love for donald trump. >> i will do anything to protect mr. trump. >> they say i'm mr. trump's pit bull. >> i've stood by him shoulder to shoulder. >> there's an issue that relates

to mr. trump that is of concern to him it's of concern to me, and i will use my legal skills within which to protect mr. trump to the best of my ability. >> your guys are down -- >> says who? says who? >> polls, most of them. all of them. >> says who? >> is that manning to go to prison for donald trump? >> i doubt it. i actually doubt that that man issing to go to prison for donald trump and one of the single moments for me this past week was after the fbi raided his office and trump came out and said they hicked the hinges off his door. cohen came out and said they were polite. they actually didn't beat me up too badly. to role this back, any time the president gets extremely angry i always think it's because he's nervous. if you have nothing to hide you won't get that angry. as it pertains to michael cohen, i don't think michael cohen is

actually the most important lawyer in the trump organization. i don't think -- i don't think -- i think the media has overplayed michael cohen's role. he started in '06. was a lawyer who was there from '95 jason greenblatt. he's now the envoy to israel. he signed off on most of the deals from '95 to the present that are central to the trump organization. michael cohen sat there, didn't get a salary. he was brought up to scare people. he was in that tradition of trump saying who's my roy cohen. >> if he didn't get a salary, what did he get? >> he got to say that he was at the trump organization. he's another one of these hanger's on that appears in trump universe because they want to hitch their wagon to his star. he never actually did any real legal work for trump. he was an enforcer. >> interesting, because that brings me and tara to this piece of information that cohen has been ordered to disclose his client lists. if he's not getting paid, he's

getting something. he's getting paid somehow. if he's selling his access to being part of trump world to make money, then maybe what he really is worried about is whatever his personal business dealings are. that's the problem, right? >> also, remember this whole money laundering thing is a big issue for trump. all of these connections, these interconnections between him and these folks, iranian revolutionary guard, one of the men supposedly a money launder, now where cohen was actually connected was he is connected to these things that are happening, trump's soho, the connections there. >> trump soho, the trump tower moscow. >> but he's also paying the woman who got the abortion and that's related to elliott broidy who's also connected to this attempt to uae. you have a lot of people selling

influence. another interesting thing that trump tweeted this morning. attorney/client privilege is now a thing of the past. i have many, too many lawyers and they're probably wondering when their offices or even homes are going to be raided with everything including their phones and computers taken. all lawyers deflated and concern. >> as they should be, joy, the idea that michael cohen represents something of an end game in this investigation is overblown. bob mueller has a lot more targets. he has richer targets than michael cohen. that's not to say trump shouldn't be afraid of michael cohen's transactions. this is early stages. >> just based on your read of donald trump the person, what might he do in response? how wild might he go? >> he's going to continue to lash out and that's what makes him dangerous. i said this before, at this moment, this is when he's his most dangerous. this is going to be when he's at his most dangerous. now he knows that basically

everything is in play, right? before he thought, my attorney, certain people are never going to be touched and now he knows that's not the case. he also sees that he's been out maneuvered and outplayed by mueller and this team of investigators. that is become abundantly clear. i'm going to part company on this. i do think michael cohen knows a lot more than -- knows enough to make trump very nervous. his reaction, everything that he's doing right now shows that he's extremely nervous. i think michael cohen knows a lot, has a lot of information. whether he was actually negotiating things, doesn't change the fact that he may have access to the information about those things. >> we're out of time. i have to play one little piece and this is the other person who's outmaneuvering. michael avenatti is outmaneuvering trump announcing stormy daniels is going to be at that cohen hearing on monday. let's play that. >> i'm going to be there at

2:00. i can announce that we got comfortable with the security plan last night for my client. she's going to attend at 2:00 on monday. i think monday afternoon could prove to be very interesting. >> stormy daniels is going to be in court on monday with michael cohen, is that what you're saying? >> she will attend -- >> dun dun dun. stay tuned. thank you. somebody didn't like us pointing out donald trump's mission accomplished fail. i'll tell you who that was after the break. you know, i used to be good at this.

then you turn 40 and everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay?

i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay." i like that. you may need glasses though. yeah. schedule a complimentary goal planning session today with td ameritrade. this morning we noticed our syria coverage garnered some attention where trump's tv national security virzers leave. >> the tweet declaring mission accomplished because saying that always works well for presidents. >> mission accomplished which is not a great historical reference there. >> mission accomplished, really not a wise thing to tweet. >> what does mission accomplished mean? >> mission accomplished, now that's an interesting choice of words. >> our producers are pretty good at gathering that info but is this just another attempt to create controversy where there is none. we all understood that george w. bush stood on that aircraft carrier but when it -- this

mission membership more limited and it's been said from the beginning, yet they run with it like he's declaring the end of the iraq war. >> of course. here's the problem. they're trying to ascribe traits to president trump as it he's some seasoned politicians that should have known about this things 15 years ago and not tweet about it. >> he's 71. he's president. if the bar was any lower, you'd have to limbo under it on your knees. more "a.m. joy" after the break.

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here the church bells ringing in bay route at the end of an extraordinary day and there were protests to answer your question earlier on the streets of damascus. people obviously in the heartland of president assad not happy with this. he was pictured at 9:00 this morning walking nonchalantly into his office, almost literally taking it in his stride signaling to the world that these air strikes didn't make him lose sleep. >> hours after a u.s. led strike meant to punish him for using chemical weapons it was business as usual for syrian president who taunted donald trump with this video posted by the syrian government showing the dictator appearing unbothered and headed back to work. >> trump didn't get the memo deploying a george w. bush style

message on twitter and adding that the strike was perfectly executed. given syrian wrortsz that the three targeted sites hit by the joint operation between the u.s., france and britain were evacuated days earlier thanks to a warning from russia and maybe thanks also to the twitter warning from trump himself, get ready russia, the missiles are coming. nice new and smart and all that. what trump actually accomplished still remains in question and joining me now is yasmin vossoughian and christopher dickey, world news editor at the "the daily beast." this is a great panel to talk about this. yasmin i'll start with you first. mission accomplished. what was the mission? other argues the strike was a waste.

>> that is such a good point. i was talking about this. we have dramatically decreased the amount of refugees that are coming into this country from syria. it's 11 i think. it's really none. we are up in arps over the chemical weapons attacks that assad is leveling against his people. you have to think about what's going on there where we're defending the syrian people within their country and yet we're not allowing them safe harbor in this country. president trump tweeting out this morning, gotcha. not necessarily buying that. but if your objective was to level three chemical weapons site that were inactive or active, then, yes, his mission was accomplished. what we need to think about is the fact that assad can actually recreate these chemical weapons quite easily. chlorine that was used last week is readily available and can be found anywhere. sarin gas, according to ray french intelligence report, can be reproduced as well. if assad does decide to use those chemical weapons against his people once again, mission

not necessarily accomplished. >> donald trump seems to subscribe this strong man history of theory and he's been compared to strong men in the region, that he has the same sensibility. i wonder then if he believes power has to display itself in order to get respect. how does it play in the region when he says mission accomplished and makes it sound like he did this spectacular attack and assad strolz out like nothing here. >> if he want to america to be great then act great and that acting great has a long-term strategy, it's engaging in the political process. if america doesn't want to engage in the political process for syria then empower the u.n. it's not doing any of that. it's doing strikes between now and then and talking the talk, not getting refugees out. there are 12 million syrians half of the population have been displaced, refugees all over the

world or killed, half a million people killed. if he want america great, then act great. either ep power the u.n. to lead a negotiating process, russia has the same envoy since 2012 in syria. america, changes its policy every single day. >> we have no ambassador or secretary of state. trump did manage -- not alone, he had britain and france with him. is that meaningful and does it mean that there could be a u.n. process? i was talking about this yesterday, where is the move to simply isolate syria the way for instance, we isolate north korea? there doesn't seem to be a process that follows this pinprick bombing. >> there's not even the beginning of the process. you ask how people react to it, everybody in the region understand that's when you carry out a strike like this and you don't take out the guy, you just make him stronger and assad is a lot stronger now than he was a

couple of days ago. he's not weaker because of this. you also have to understand, assad doesn't need to use chemical weapons. he might do it by choice. maybe to taunt trump but he's killed 500,000 people. >> yeah. >> 500,000. >> he's won this -- >> half a million people are dead in this war and he is winning this war. so trump watches tv in the morning. that initial tweet was about 7:00 in the morning. he's watching morning news. he sees picture of dead babies, throws a fit and i think, frankly, boxed himself in. he tweeted himself into this little fake war with syria, when, in fact, what he want to do is get the hell out of syria. >> he said so. >> for so long under the obama administration this was about the regime change. and we know the trump administration is saying this is not about regime change, whatsoever and that's obviously a very pointed difference at change. i think that's because assad is

winning this war. >> because -- regime change as we found out in iraq is a complicated thing. you can't even accomplish it. i have to show this photo which my executive producer pointed out to me this morning and i had to really take a couple of looks at it to understand that this really happened in the real world. sarah huckabee sanders who is the white house press secretary. look at that photo. black and white for increased dramatic effect. she tweeted out friday at 6:30 last night the president put our adversaries on notice when he draws a red line he enforces it referring to the obama red line which congress wouldn't let him in force because congress said he couldn't use force. inside the situation room as president is briefed on syria. if you look at that photo. can we have a zoom in on it, there's a person here who wasn't there, mike pence is in the photo. mike pence was i believe in peru. he wasn't there. >> he substituted out for the president because the president was supposed to head to peru.

>> how could the white house have put out an official photo on briefing with a man who was not there. this is not a real depiction. >> this is the trump administration that we're talking about, joy. i think that's the simple answer to this question. i'm not necessarily surprised to see that. i think what i want to say about syria. i think more an a macro level as well. they say they draw a red line. this has put russia in a really good position. russia is needed in that region. the syrians need russians. the rebels need the russians and now the americans need the russians as well. >> and the way to actually deal with syria and deal with assad because he killed half a million people. in his political interest assad is to only engage in military process, it's not to engage in political process. if america really want to get this done and fixed, engage in a political process with a long-term solution. >> is there a process that could see at sad regime no longer in

power? he's a minority sect member. it would risk his own life. is there a political solution in syria? >> i don't really think there is but it has to be said that earlier this year the administration, the u.s. administration was trying to develop a policy that they thought would lead to eventually the aten situation and the reduction and the elimination of assad's power in the country. the idea was that these american troops, 2,000 american would work with the local allies and essentially make eastern syria a no-go zone for assad. a lot of his oil resources are in eastern syria. you cut him off from those and eventually you just dry up his economic support inside the country. you make him more and more expensive for the iranians and for the russians and eventually you can get rid of him.

now that's out the window because trump wants to bring all the americans home. >> there is a political process, actually. it's complex and it's long-term. the u.n. has one. america's not showing up in it and we need america to show up. it's not military strike, we need america to engage and be great. >> thank you all. would love to have you back. for more on my thought, you can check out my latest column at the "the daily beast" entitled donald trump goes to war. we finally get to the story no one is talking about any more, the speaker of the house is not running for re-election. way too much news and killer mike makes his "a.m. joy" debut. stay right there.

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going back. >> syrian refugees are now being resettled in rhode island. we can't let this happen but you have a lot of them resettling in rhode island. enjoy your -- lock your doors, folks. >> for the cost of resettling one refugee in the united states, we can assist more than ten in their home region. this is the safe, responsible and humanitarian approach. >> so a truly humanitarian approach would be to welcome refugees to a country that has the resources to shelter and protect them from the dangers they're trying to escape, yeah? instead, the trump administration said it initiated airstrikes for the chemical attacks orchestrated by the syrian president. but with only 11 syrian refugees accepted into the united states this year, not 1100, 11, the trump administration's concern for the syrian people reins rather hollow. joining us to discuss is jose

antonio varga. he's on book leave to come with me. >> we were texting. we have to talk about this. >> not only were we texting, but you know i follow you on twitter. you tweeted consider how manyfug to the united states. why are you, you being a stand in for immigrants, refugees, coming to america? often i say we are here because you are there. >> that's a big one. >> yeah. >> you know, as you know, i'm filipino. i've done a lot of events across the country. people say, why are there so many filipinos in this country. there's about 4 million of us? i said, the spanish american war when you took over the philippines and it became a property of puerto rico. do you know why we're here? so wait a second, we're bombing this country and at the same time we're saying, they're not welcome here. >> right. >> so then what happens?

you know, i was really struck the other day. i was watching fox news which i tend to do sometimes. >> you watch so we don't have to. >> i was. i was listening to "new york times" reporter. >> promoter of the iraq war. >> she said she was really struck about how targeted, limited, but absolutely precise the objective was in terms of what this -- you know, this attack wanted to accomplish in re-establishing the red line. and i have to tell you, but i way, what is the red line against the moral corruptibility? there's all this talk about red lines about war, but how we treat people in this country and who we decide to welcome in the country. >> it's interesting. the part that loved to see the bombs falling and they feel like that is american strength. they'll cheer when donald trump, we saw them at montage, he said, no more syrian refugees, but then they also cheer when trump bombs syria.

bashar al assad hurt syrians. it doesn't compute. >> are we understanding what the consequences are? every action has a reaction. >> right. >> what's the reaction of this? you know, actually, one of the things we were talking about, too, is every year we have this film festival. this year it's in chicago. if you're in chicago, come, starts friday. we're actually showing a documentary called "this is home" all about syrian refugees. four syrian families who resettle in baltimore and how hard that is. like -- so those are the realities that we're dealing with that i think most americans who are -- who are maybe confused about what's happening don't quite understand the realities of this. >> yes. talking about compassion, you know, and donald trump is feeling this great compassion for the children who are bombed by their dictator. we took in 15,000 in 2016. that dropped to 3,000, dropped to 11, 11 and know that the ceiling is 45,000. so the capacity that we have

established for ourselves that we could take in 45,000 but instead we're just taking in 11. >> you notice in the clip earlier on, the language here is very deliberate, right? like how the president has blurred the lines between immigrant, refugee -- >> yes. yeah. >> right? >> said they were all the same people. >> all the same people. >> yeah. >> and when the reality is of course it's much more complicated than that but for the purposes of the president and the supporters of what's happening, they're all the same, right? >> that's correct. >> and they're all coming over the mexican border. >> yeah. this is for me what's been the past couple of weeks with the national guard, not once did you hear many news organizations claim that 40% of the people who came here illegally all had -- >> came in a plane? >> yes. it's always great to see you. i'd love to go and be in chicago. >> we'll put up a little president obama mow.

it's april 20th. there are film screenings, panel discussions. >> comedy. >> even comedians. if you can't make it in person, you can do what i'm going to do which is to watch it on the live stream which is on defineamerican.com. click away. more "am joy" after the break. thank you. engineered to take the crown. presenting the all-new lexus ls 500 and ls 500h. experience amazing, at your lexus dealer.

what i realize is if i am here for one more term, my kids will only have ever known me as

a weekend dad. i just can't let that happen. >> welcome back to "am joy." on any other week the speaker of the house bailing seven months before the mid-term elections would be the lead story on pretty much any newscast but with trump bombing syria, james comey's book and the fbi conducting raids on the personal attorney of the attorney of the united states who happens to be in an ongoing legal battle with a porn star who is being paid to hide affairs with him, well, you get a picture. paul ryan is heading for the exit after 2 1/2 years. that makes him a lame duck and raises some key questions about how it will impact his party heading into the mid terms and increasingly looks like a blue wave to a race to replace him. majority whip steve scalise is reportedly supporting house majority leader kevin mccarthy and ryan endorsed mccarthy in an

interview on "meet the press." >> do you have a preference. >> kevin mccarthy -- >> you say we all. >> our leadership team. i'm not saying -- >> steve scalise, it's your understanding that he believes that kevin mccarthy should be in your position? >> yes. >> whether it's leader or speaker? >> that's right. that's right. well, i fully anticipate handing the gavel over to the next speaker of the house. >> and you believe that's going to be -- >> i believe kevin is going to step up. >> of course, all of this talk about the republican's next speaker if, indeed, moot if the republicans lose their majority. with ryan on the way out, we will see the mainstream media who fell in love with ryan whose wonky budget director whose math never added up began to see him for what he's been, not a wonder kid, but an idea owe log whose whole purpose has been tax cuts for the rich and rolling back

support for the poor. "new york times" opinion columnist paul krugman wrote, i called him a filmflam man back in 2010 and nothing he has done has called that into question. he was the beneficiary of ideological affirmative action. ouch. joining me now, democrat running for paul ryan's congressional seat, randy bryce. good morning to you. >> good morning, joy. always a pleasure to talk with you. >> same to you. it's a pretty harsh assessment. the media has been gaga over paul ryan over the years. they've seen him as this brilliant wonk when, in fact, he's pretty much been on the same track since he was budget director, cut taxes for the rich, cut taxes for the rich and cut social programs for the

poor. >> the one who's had his lifetime achievement goals come to pass, where his latest tax scam that gives $1.5 trillion to the richest people in the country and right after that he announced that now we can't afford social security, medicare and medicaid. nobody has done more to attack those safety programs than paul ryan and i think that's become evident and it's also part of the reason why he's going to face the public and have a public event for over 900 days now. >> on that tax bill, are the folks that you know, your neighbors, friends, family, yourself, are you guys seeing anything, any money from that tax cut? >> personally, i am not. and relatively short amount of money is coming in from others. i talked to somebody that said i am getting $200 extra per month, but i'd rather that money go into something else like a grandmother that's going to have her safety -- her social safety net cut from underneath her.

people understand also that this is just a temporary option for us and it's a political ploy to help the republicans stay in congress because they see -- they're doing anything right now to stay in power. they see 9 blue wave sweeping across the country. >> kyle kondic who is the managing editor of larry sa sabato's crystal ball. your polling dead even with a generic republican. do you expect that republicans will try to do better than paul kneeland, a devout white christian. >> we are. a lot of the top names are stepping down. they've seen the coalition that we've been able to put together, something that paul ryan has never had to face in the 20 years in congress.

last year at this time i was an iron worker working on a construction site that was really concerned about the direction our country has headed. in that time we have been able to put together something that has had the speaker of the house decide to leave because we took the fight out of him. it's actually not me, it's all the people coming together showing their support, stopping into our website, chipping in 5, 10 bucks. this is the united states coming together and this is what the resistance is about. we see what's going on. >> democrats are doing pretty well in terms of the generic ballot. democrats are ahead 47-40 about who people want to run congress but that doesn't necessarily mean that that translates to your district. it's r plus 4 or 5 district. >> right. >> could you have beaten paul ryan? >> i believe we could have. there's no doubt in my mind, and especially going in comparison

of the -- it was a plus 11 rf. trump won that, ours was a plus 5 r. trump won it by 10. we are definitely looking forward to it. that's why you heard rumors that paul ryan was thinking about getting out. as far as him saying that it's because of his family, well, if that was the case, if that's the only reason he's going to get out, then why did he just recently perform a poll? >> do you expect him to campaign? do you expect him to campaign if it's not paul kneeland? >> i'm sure the republicans will put all kinds of money behind whoever their candidate; there's no doubt about that. just as they're doing throughout the country. at least they were members of congress staying in and not getting out fearing the blue wave. >> the koch brothers are not retiring from congress. they'll keep on putting money in. you have a primary coming up. good luck with that.

>> looking forward to it. now i want to bring in our panel, scot ross, executive director of one wisconsin now and senior advisor for move on. does randy bryce have a real shot at becoming the next senator from janesville, wisconsin, district 1? >> randy's involved in a primary and i've written so many primary night concession speeches hmpt there is a fall line. paul ryan has gotten a free ride his entire career. for me in particular, it's -- it's heartfelt because, you know, he is our first gen x member of congress, our first gen x speaker and utterly and totally fugazi dealing with what

kids are dealing with, family care, pensions, he's going to enjoy a big pension. the rest of us are on our own. the times are changing. people have finally seen that paul ryan was a paper tiger. they have seen, for instance, that in the small period of time he was the house speaker the national debt went up 16% and although editorial pages are writing fawning obituaries about his political career, he's going to hang around. he's going to have an impact. we're going to be paying for his tax break for the rich for a longer time. the single animating principle of everything ryan did was to comfort the law afflicting the inflicted. can anyone name a single moment that he didn't impose a burden on the wealthy? and, coreen, paul ryan is wealthy. he inherited money.

he's not going to suffer if medicaid and medicare goes. i think he benefitted from social security when his father died. what do you think is behind the alex p. keaton treatment he's gotten in the media? do you think now that he's going there will be more paul krugman assessments. >> i think there will be. he's a lake dumb. he won't do many things at all. they have gone after donald trump even though they vote with him more than 90% of the time. there's the wonder kill thing with paul ryan. he's worth about 6, $7 million. he's always put forth this i'm a working kind of guy, of the people, which has never been true. he's been born into wealth. he has millions of dollars. paul ryan is going to be known for taking away health care, for skyrocketing the deficit, for

being -- turning the republican house into lap dogs for donald trump and it is just a continuous failure. i think that ultimately will be what his legacy will be known for but yet the media has been looking, as you were ee leading to, for this wonder kid that just never came to fruition. he was able to trick people. that's the best way of saying it, he was able to bring that young look, that wonder boy look and he served many, many people. >> he does p.w.x. the washington post had a take that was sort of similar. the title of it is donald trump didn't change paul ryan. all ryan ever cared about was taxes. the same tax cuts. there was never any doubt to matter which one mattered the most. while he wanted to slash social

programs, this was always about tax cuts. wisconsin is koch brothers deep, bradley foundation deep, they want no taxes on themselves. scott walker, they're all cut from the same cloth, reince priebus, the whole crew in the white house and is govern. i'm wondering if that was -- >> we have definitely -- we've definitely become a laboratory for the worst right wing freedman policy that exists. everything from when walker got into office he attacked the rights of 170,000 working men and women and restricting the right to vote for people. we've seen not just -- not just, you know, our infrastructure just completely and totally decimated, we've now gotten into the top ten for percent of our graduates with student loan debt. top to bottom this has been a

disaster. they've been writing checks that we're going to be forced paying for down the road. again, in wisconsin we have this massive snowstorm and thank god, you know, there are still folks from asme out there plowing our streets but they're plowing torn up roads. top to bottom, paul ryan's the same thing. i would add one point. paul ryan became the speaker at 45. when he became the speaker he had passed three bills the entire, you know, 15 years at that point he had been in congress. one of them was to rename a post office. one of them was to give a tax break to bow and arrow hunters, manufacturers. can you imagine if an african-american woman who was 45 who had been in congress for 15 years was suddenly pushed out there with that record as the next speaker. the media would have torn that person to pieces but with paul ryan he got complete and total

free pass. it's nice to see that he at least does enough polling to know that there is a blue wave coming and that his future as the speaker was in real jeopardy. >> well, it's not just him. one of the people who is slated to potentially replace them did not deny having attended a white nationalist meeting. >> yes. >> and the media just glosses over it. is there going to be activism? around the tax issue. the tax thing is really so unpopul unpopular. we need to make that an issue in the mid term. >> yeah, i mean, look, the problem that's happening for republicans is they can't even -- they can't even run on the tax cut anymore. i mean, just pa 18 you had the republican candidate there who 2/3 of his ad was on tax cuts.

and it never landed. it never had any type of traction. and so what did he do? he had to move into this -- the race ist bigoted immigration. a rural area that the republicans should easily have been able to hold on to. that's what republicans are going to see. they're going to see that the tax cuts, which are still unpopul unpopular, it's not going to cut through. the democrats have something they can talk about, which is health care, which is resonating, protecting social security, medicare, medicaid which is one of the number one issues that voters out there care about. you saw that in virginia, you saw that in alabama and we're seeing that across the way. randy, that's one of the things that he's able to talk about because of his own personal cancer that he had. >> yeah, absolutely. well, we are seeing things change. scott walker who's refusing to hold elections he's so afraid democrats would win. they see a wave.

sayonara to the speaker about a month from now. scot ross and careen, thank you. coming up, more on trump's, quote, best people and killer mike joins me live. you totaled your brand new car. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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>> i think i get into a difficult -- a different -- a difficult area when i start commenting on supreme court decisions, which are correctly decided and which i may disagree with. >> that was wendy vitter, donald trump's nominee to be judge on the u.s. district court for the eastern district of louisiana refusing to say if she agrees with the outcome of the landmark civil rights rule in the desegregating of america's public schools. if ms. vitter seems familiar, you might remember her as the wife of former louisiana senator david vitter who was implicated in the d.c. madam sex scandal in 2007. there she is standing behind him while he made his obligatory public confession. there's more to ms. vitter than standing by her husband. she's general counsel to the roman catholic diocese. she claimed that planned parenthood, quote, kills over 150,000 females a year.

now donald trump has nominated her for a lifetime seat on the supreme court. >> thank you for being here, vaneta. >> great to be here. >> let me play one more clip of ms. vitter talking about brown versus the board of education, sort of a universally beloved ruling that most people believe was the right thing to do, but here she is answering senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. >> do you believe it was correctly decided? >> again, i will respectfully not comment on what could be my boss's ruling, the supreme court. i would be bound by it and if i start commenting on i agree with this case or don't agree with this case, i think we get into a slippery slope. >> now, vaneta, i'm not a lawyer, but my understanding always was that in a case -- in

order for commenting on a case to be detrimental to her future service, she would have to believe that that case would come up again. is there some thought that we may be relitigating desegregating schools or am i off base? >> god help us if we end up at that point, but i think there's an issue here with wendy vitter, more than one. let me talk about the most prominent one that that video demonstrates. judges are asked to judge hard, complex questions in their jobs, but if a nominee to a lifetime appointment on the federal bench cannot stand by the proposition that over 60 years ago the united states supreme court correctly decided to end legalized segregation or legalized apartheid in our nation's public schools, then that nominee is unfit to serve. she should withdraw. i don't think there's any which way about that. even gorsuch and clarence thomas in their hearings and writings have stod by that proposition.

so for wepd bey vitter to stand by and say what she did, i think it's a case that she is unfit to serve the federal bench. >> let's play one more of a bit of the questioning by senator blumenthal. this is about the plant parenthood comments. let's listen to that. >> you said planned parenthood kills 150,000 females, 150,000 people a year. do you stand by that statement? >> senator, i feel, again, my pro life stance has been made very clear. i have been very up front with this committee about my views and about how serious i take it and that i would set aside any religious views or any personal views if i were to be confirmed. >> now keeping in mind that she is the general counsel to the archdiocese. she's a committed catholic, is that answer problematic for you? >> look, nominees are allowed to

have their personal views as long as they can set them aside, but there's an additional element that happened later in that hearing that i think put senator blumenthal's thoughts into perspective. senator herono confronts ms. vitter with a statement that in 2013 she had spoken on a panel and tauted a pamphlet that said pills kills. it would lead to violent death of women. and when she was confronted with this and asked like does she stand by that proposition, she was like, oh, well, no, no, i didn't quite say that. but it's caught on video that she was saying that to folks in the audience, that they should put that brochure in all of their doctor's offices. this is a person who is taughting that as junk science. she didn't reveal it to the senate judiciary committee.

that's another element in all of this. there have been a number of instances where trump nominees have failed to disclose crucial information. failed to disclose -- in brett tally's nomination, he failed to disclose thousands of blogs. failed to disclose that he wrote with the kkk, his wife was the chief of staff with the white house counsel's office. he was supposed to disclose family conflicts of interest. thomas farr, a nominee who's been voted out of committee, going to face a floor vote. was legal counsel to jesse holmes in '84 and '90. claimed to not have known that jesse helms was seeking to intimidate and suppress the votes of african-american voters in north carolina and then when george h.w. bush, his justice department opened an investigation into this, the chief investigator and counsel just revealed to the senate judiciary committee that, indeed, thomas farr did know about it. there's layer upon layer of what trump is doing with some of the

most extreme nominees to the court. there will be lifelong consequences for kids and grandkids. >> not only that, you mentioned brett j. tally. this is the man who you may remember as also a former pair a normal activity investigator, a ghost buster, as it were, who did have to withdraw, he withdraw his conviction. >> isn't he participating in picking judges? am i getting that wrong? >> no, you're not. he's at the justice department and he vets the nominees. i think when you saw in december the senate, including senator kennedy from louisiana ask some pretty difficult questions of these nominees with a sense that the white house counsel's office and the folks at the justice department are degrading the process by not paying attention to some really key information that's misleading the senate

judiciary committee. as i said, our courts play a huge part in our lives and that sort of thing can't stand. >> it's a process that appears to be rotten from beginning to end. thank you so much for being here to unpack that for us. vanita gupta, thank you. >> thank you. the interview you're waiting for. killer mike is in hair and makeup. he'll join us here next.

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i tell my kids, i love you. if you walk out that school, walk out my house. >> oh, man, so serious. >> that simple. we are a gun-owning family. we are a family where my sister farms. we'll fish, we will hunt. we are not a family that jumps on every single thing an ally of ours does because some things we just don't agree with. spears and everything else you need. >> guns. after garnering criticism, including me for that interview on nra tv which they posted on the same day at our march for our lives. killer mike issued an apology. fast forward and he and i wound up in a little bit of a social media dust up which started on

instagram with this glam squad photo which i referenced hair and makeup. me promoting h&m. the coolest monkey in the jungle sweatshirt. asking why his interview was worse than that. i responded to that and twitter took it from there. you know how it goes. it's all a misunderstanding. we decided that even social media beef can create an opportunity for dialogue and there are much bigger issues at stage than my glam picks. killer mike is here to discuss those issues. you know, we hooked up your h&m to make you look cute. great to see you. >> yes, you did. it is so good to see you. let me say because i'm raised a southern man by my grandparents that i'm okay gated to say as i've already said on social media but i want the public to know it because if you do it in private, you ought to be able to do it. i sincerely apologize for the

judgment i used. it's our word now. but i shouldn't have used in criticism of us because it wasn't at you as much as us because my fear and impulse was driven by my ego. our egos can become our masters. i'm very sorry. i jumped to a conclusion and i used coarse language with someone who i admire, respect. if my grandmother were alive she would have called me. >> i do appreciate that. you've been very gash shus in talking about this. these things can get -- take a life of their own because of social media. >> absolutely. >> i do appreciate that. i feel like the bigger picture here was the bigger picture. my criticism of you and your criticism of me goes back to the march for our lives. and i just want to for your background give you some background on why i had such a strong reaction to you doing that interview which you did before and then they posted on that day. >> gotcha.

>> the morning that your video was posted, he's a lawyer, the day that they posted that video and that you started trending for that, they also posted like a series of tweets at me. so let's do e6 first. a series of tweets with him tagged in it or him forwarding them that were kind of inflammatory going affidavit hogg, the reverend al. talking about rape is a real thing. saying they only want to hear from black people that agree with them. this is e2 for my reporters. it was the one that got to me that morning. take a look. >> joy reid, you can go stick it. we are on to you and we will be watching. every time you lay out a ridiculous tweet like that, i will be calling you out, you can bet on it. >> tell them, please, how you feel about -- you have to deal with the reality of rape and you don't want to be disarmed. >> rape is a real thing. being mugged is a real thing. >> i mean, you know, mike, for

me, when an organization that's all about guns starts tweeting out, we're watching you, i take that as a threat honestly. maybe it was because they had already done the hour glass thing. do you recognize sort of the sense that a lot of us out here have that the nra is actually low key threatening, particularly to people of color? >> i think that we have been threatened as people of color since we were brought here. i sat down with collin not to promote the nra but to promote a conversation that's being left out of the national gun conversation and that conversation is black gun ownership. frederick douglas said and i quote in 1867 a man's rights rest in three boxes, the ballot box, the juror's box and the cartridge box. and then he said, and no man should be restricted from the ballot box by color and no woman by sex. 100 years later in 1967 we called up and got that progressive. i say that to say that my original conversation and the

reason i appeared today besides that i should apologize for using coarse language is to say african-american gun ownership in this country has always been used as a defensive mechanism. we have not organized militias, we have not sought to kill people, we have sought to be well said and having a winchester in the home defending ourselves against lynchings. i'm sorry that an organization like the nra has sunk to levels. it can be argued about what people did on the left and right is petty. i'm just here to say to african-americans, the conversation that we need to be having besides who our enemies are are what are the rights that we have that we're going to invoke. are we going to invite law enforcement to our life? more gun laws passion in a bla

way. we've seen in the last two years black girls be slammed to the grounds and in classrooms and pool parties. that's going to increase because our children are more hostile and aggressive. black men, you're more likely to be diagnosed with adhd as a child, a misdiagnosis. this may keep you out of legal and legitimate gun ownership. so for me as deplorable as acts that i've seen on both sides, people who are pro and not pro guns, my bigger conversation, joy, is the conversation that we're having about where do african-americans fit in that. i'm sorry that that happened to you. i'm sorry that i get death threats and have to walk around with a body guard but i feel better that i live in a republic where people 54 years into freedom are allowed to protect their second amendment and protect theirselves. >> i agree with everything you said. i covered the case in sanford, florida, the george zimmerman shooting and i remember going over to the golds borrow

district where the black citizens of golds borrow have to defend themselves because the klan came over. >> yes. yes. yes. >> i'm struck by the fact that the nra has never been on it. >> the mulford act. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> orlando castile was a lawful gun owner was shot dead by a police officer while he was in his car doing the right thing, saying he had that gun. the nra was completely silent including your friend collin, he never said anything. so i wonder whether or not challenging them on that -- i mean, that was an opportunity to say to them, wait a minute, where were you for orlando castile and the panthers. >> absolutely. collin is someone -- like i have a lot of black friends that don't agree with me. i have blark friends as far reaching as republicans, black friends at the extreme left marxist. my friends hate that i supported bernie sanders. my friends who are marxist don't think sanders is marxist

enough. i encourage more black men to join the atlanta police force. i tell black police we have to be better at policing. i tell my city they should pay police more. so i have taken a lot of perspectives in and i'd just like to say on matters of the nra, let's tell the entire story. i'm not here to defend or fix an organization, i want to say that at some point an organization that used to be simply about gun rights lead to second amendment and teaching people to use them got hijacked, got taken, got turned in the same way that the republican party which was the party of frederick douglas but you'd never know it. in 1950 something they granted a charter to robert f. williams to form a gun club to protect black people from the klan. that organization today is not the organization of being. as black people i want us to be informed. as heinous as the mulford act

was. as heinous as that was, this was the same organization that was used by black marxist communists who later went on to inspire the black panthers to arm themselves. i want people to know that organizations don't rule us, we rule them. if we cut the nra off, good. there's an organization called naga. national african-american gun association. i am a member of that organization. i encourage other people to join that and there's also the socialist rifle association and i think you should join that. turn your backs to the nra. get rid of them if you want to, but don't turn your backs on lobbying for yourself and keeping black gun ownership. >> really quickly. we are out of time. >> i'm sorry. >> that's okay. i know you have seen this, everybody has seen this video of two black men being arrested for being at a starbucks. >> yes. yes. yes. yes. >> my thinking on that is if either of those two men had been concealed carry holder, if any of those police officers had

seen a gun, even though they were being as peaceful as they were, there is a great probability that they would be dead. do you worry that encouraging black people to carry endangers black people's lives? we know implicit bias is real? >> michael brown was not armed. michael brown was not armed. >> do you think those two men would have been in danger if they had been? >> i think black men are in danger from law enforcement because we need to teach better policing. i'm going to tell you what struck me about that video. white people stood up and were immediately allies, thank you for that. but the black men are to be congratulated and saluted. they showed themselves dig any 2350id, regaled in that arrest. they kept the situation calm by not raising voice, by not hiding hands. in matters of orlando castile, i'd like to congratulate the man he was. he was a working man, a legal firearms owner and he exercised that right. i don't think those police would

have killed those young men because they hand 8d that spectacularly. >> killer mike, thank you very much for being here. it's a good opportunity to have a dialogue. thank you for joining me and being a good sport. >> thank you. please just michael. i'm only killer mike when i'm on the stage. >> michael. i'm going to be like your au auntie. >> bye. >> more "am joy" coming up.

all joining me now as i fix my mike, tiffany cross, why are you not here my friend, and you must come back to new york. you have the advantage. >> i am here. >> your thoughts on the killer mike interview. >> i was disappointed he didn't answer the questions. the core question you asked, if he wants to talk about increasing gun ownership, where is the nra for black and brown people? it starts as reaction to the black panthers as you note. >> yep. >> they're not there for philando castile or john crawford. john crawford was buying a toy bb gun. the nra is a gun lobbying organization. they're not here for the people, they're here for gun manufacturers.

john crawford was purchasing a gun. >> open carrying in an open carry state, not even a real gun. >> shot and killed an store. >> one aisle over. >> should not be there for him? for a gun purchaser or potential purchaser and mike is not able to answer these questions. you're asking simple, direct questions. they're not overly partisan, just is the nra there for black people. we know the nra is consistently using black men as a boogie man to motivate gun sales. where are you on that, mike? i need answers on these questions before i can follow you into the pro-nra, pro-black gun owners, and the notion these men in starbucks would have survived if they had a gun, that's absurd. we can't take up guns against the police. that's not how we're going to win the battle against police brutality. i could go on all day. >> speaking of using black men to sell guns, the nra has been

explicit, gun manufacturers have been explicit having a black man in the white house really helped gun sales. they scare monger around barack obama, made a lot of money. they stock piled guns to sell, thinking there would be a woman come bring the black helicopters, she lost. companies like remington that make the ar-15 are down the tubes because they don't have a black man to scare monger. >> and they made numerous disparaging comments about the first black president. to killer mike's point, his efforts to say more black people should go out, buy guns, does tremendous to help the gun control arguments. the second you have a million black men with guns, there will be a lot of people, interested in having a conversation on gun control. what's disturbing about the trend, he says he is not here to defend the nra, but you did, by your brand, by your presence on the nra tv, you then validated

this organization the same way steve harvey validated donald trump when he stood next to him, how conway west did in trump tower, omarosa validated it through the campaign trail, this is the same thing killer mike did. i grew up in atlanta. he has done amazing things there, and i applaud him, yes, there's room for diversity of thought on the left and among black people. however, the same people who are getting arrested for sitting peacefully in starbucks and for some reason we think the onus is on black people to keep the conversation calm. same people who are shot, unarmed, same people like philando castile, they listen to your records and hip-hop, for him to come on air an act like black people, like thank you guys for staying calm, sometimes it is okay to be pissed off you're sitting in a starbucks,

minding your own business peacefully the same way everybody else is and the police arrest them for doing nothing. it is disappointing to see he wasn't out front on those issues. and if we can acknowledge the nra itself is a dubious organization, they say they have 4.5 million members, i doubt those numbers. when you have a congressman that says how many nra members in florida, it is 300,000. this is the boogie man of the organization. they're basically funded by gun manufacturers, not by these members. even though he offered other organizations that people could join, he still lends them some validity by appearing on their network. it is a call to other black people, don't get pulled into the sunken place by appearing on these things. they will call out your message and your voice, you will be on a.m. joy, apologizing for saying something ridiculous when we call you out on it.

we're always going to be here to call you out. >> give him credit for coming on. he wanted to. his team reached out to us. i give him credit and want to give him credit for being willing to come on. he really did get dragged on twitter for this. he is somebody that's tried to be an intellectual and positive, very liberal voice politically for younger people. i saw him work his magic in barber shops. but my question, the bigger picture is i'm not anti-i am not against people having guns. the conversation is so racialized, if black people open carry, they'd be killed. >> that's right. i for a long time held killer mike in esteem, run of the intellectual rappers, why this moment was disappointing to me, thought he allowed himself to be used by the nra, he has been in media too long to say i didn't know how they were going to use that. the clip you talked about not

allowing his children to participate in the march for our lives. >> because his son got bad grades. >> come on, can we not be gun owners and also want sensible gun reform? is that possible? >> most nra members. >> more people that own gaunls in in an area make more people safe. increasing gun ownership don't make us safer. >> we need to continue the conversation. gun ownership conversation is just different when it comes to black people and people of color, it just is. we're not treated the same way, it is a reality we have to deal with. we have to do this again. have you in the same city, hang out at the table. add cocktails. it will be like a morning party. be right back.

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that's our show for today. thanks for watching. we will be back next saturday. 10:00 eastern. richard louie is next. you missed us limboing earlier. >> i was listening during break, we should be celebrating friday. i have to join that. >> it is our friday. have a great show. thank you. good day to you, richard lui. noon in the east, 9:00 in the west. a new day and new tweet storm from president trump. this time about james comey. what is