career, i could not be more interested in what you're going to do on april 19th. >> on april 19th. still got it. it was a month ago. he's here tonight. you will see james comey with my colleague rachel maddow at 9 p.m. eastern tonight if you tune in. what they might talk, about i don't know. but trump did just tweet about james comey and andrew mccabe saying he threw him untder the bus. "hardball" is up next. >> fearing of firing? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. president trump has given everyevery indication he wants special counsel robert mueller gone. he says it publicly and

privately. he accuses robert mueller himself of conflicts of interests. sources say that mueller has passed a breaking point for trump and the president is enlisting even tv commentators to do his bidding. a source told cbs news mr. trump called on wednesday and asked a source to go on television to call for them to fire robert mueller. the president gave a very measured response to this question yesterday about robert mueller and rod rosenstein. >> on the mueller probe, have you concluded it not worth the political fallout to remove either special counsel mueller or deputy attorney general rod rosenstein? >> as far as the two gentlemen you've told me about, they've been saying i'm going to get rid of them for the last three months, four months, five months, and they're still here. >> well, we're now learning

perhaps why rosenstein and mueller are still here. bloomberg news is reporting just today both men have been granned -- granted a reprieve from trump, at least for now. deputy attorney general rod rosenstein told donald trump last week that he isn't a target of any part of special counsel robert mueller's investigation. one person said trump doesn't want to take any action that would drag out the investigation. this development comes after "the washington post" revealed earlier in month that the president is still under active investigation as a subject of the criminal probe. not as a target, which would put him in risk of an immediate indiei indictme indictment. as bloomberg notes, rosenstein's message may have been based on a technicality. or could it be because a

president cannot be criminally indieltcted as some believe. it was announced today that ruye giuliani is joining the president's legal team to bring the russia probe to a conclusion. he said "i'm doing it because i hope we can negotiate annd to this for the good of the country." since when do you negotiate the end of a criminal investigation, rudy? joining me is a republican congressman who has co-sponsored a bill to protect the special counsel. joyce vance is a former federal prosecutor and eddie is a professor at princeton and msnbc political analyst. eli, it feels like the president is faced with the hobson's choice, if you fire these guys you're going to face a

nixon-style death. so every sign he might mott be an immediate target of an investigation, he says okay, i'll be quiet for a while. >> he gets agitated and then gets calm. he reacts to the news like the rest of us do but he's at the center of it. after the michael cohen raid, he was really unnerved by that. potentially the fbi now has 20 years of papers detailing all these transgressions. >> and he's not worried about that because of something that rosenstein said is to him? >> i think it is reassuring to him to have rosenstein come in and say, look, you're still not a target of the investigation. but i think that if they really believe that, the president has a lot of allies putting pressure on rosenstein now on capitol hill. they're still trashing him on television, fox news and all those things. they're not acting. and people warning the president

about michael cohen flipping, they're starting from if he flips, you're in trouble. you can still see a lot of nerves for this. >> i don't see how the president doesn't know he's under investigation by robert mueller and rosenstein with his authority, that he's not under investigation with regard to the michael cohen grab of all that material, as eli said, for 20 years. he's the target. no matter what other language they use about it, they're going after him and he damn well knows it. why does he keep getting gas lighted by everybody? i don't get it. it seems like he's dancing in an old cowboy movie where they shoot at a guy's feet and they dns arou dance around for a while. your thoughts. >> based on what we know about the publicly available evidence about obstruction of justice, it seems likely that trump is being told he's a subject, not a target of these investigations. that's more reflective of a

decision within the justice department that you can't indict a sitting president than it is really a thorough assessment of the evidence. but trump seems to live in denial. he's never been an accurate consumer of legal trends and legal analysis. and it may be that he believes he can sit this one out and rudy giuliani can negotiate an pd to this investigation in two weeks. it really defies belief, though. >> you're the expert. if somebody is looking at you -- 16 lawyers or something looking at you, trying to nail you, believe you are guilty of something, you have the whole thing with cohen with all the papers and tapes ready to go at him, what is rudy talking about? how do you negotiate the end to a criminal investigation of any criminal suspect? >> so i've got to push back a little bit and say prosecutors don't really try to nail anyone.

they just try to untangle the facts and evidence and figure out if anyone's guilty. but you're absolutely right, prosecutors don't negotiate the end to a case until they've looked through all of the evidence. and here mueller's charge is to figure out was russia interfering, did russia meddle in our election. there won't be a prenegotiated settlement n mu menment until m fulfilled his obligation to the american people to get that right. >> there's a new effort by republicans on capitol hill to undermine those in charge of the investigation, particularly rod rosenstein. last friday chairmongressman jo go goodlatte, requested they turn over the memos.

republican congressman mark meadow also met with rod rosenstein to press him for more documents about the conduct of officials involved in the russia probe and warned that he could soon face impeachment proceedings if he did not satisfy gop demands for documents. congressman dent, what is your side of the aisle up to here? are they up to anything good? you know what they remind me of? those guys at nba games that get behind the basket of the opposing team and wave those stupid things in the air to confuse the foul shooter. are you guys searching for the truth or just to slow this thing down? >> well, first let me just say any time a congressional committee requests documents, the agency or -- they should comply. now, that said, i'm a little concerned about people throwing

the term impeachment out there of officials in the justice department. we dealt with this -- you may remember the irs commissioner. there are people who wanted to impeach him. i oppose that. it's grossly unfair to talk about impeaching either rosenstein or mr. gray or whoever they're going after. we shouldn't be having those conversations. it not helpful and they ought to cease and desist. >> professor, is this obstruction again, are the republicans trying to delay, distract, waste time of the investigators so they can confuse the thing? i don't think they're going to stop mueller. i think they're going to incite him to be more militant in his investigation. what are the republicans up to? >> it seems like it. when meadows and jordan pressure rosenstein in the way at the do, it seems to suggest there's a

kind of pinch that's being orchestrated. there's the orchestrated attack on comey, the i.g. referral for criminal investigation of mccabe. there's this all-out effort, assault to try to gum it up as much as possible. to my mind it's obstruction. and i was thinking about giuliani. remember the october surprise? remember he was hinting that there was something that the campaign was about to release and it happened to be those e-mails, i think? so it seems to me that this is all confusing and consistent with the idea that trump is trying to divert attention. two things. it also shows -- >> a lot of our viewers -- professor, let's get back to that. it a hot issue with a lot of our views. it was 11 days before the 2016 presidential election that comey said hillary clinton is under investigation again because of

anthony weiner's laptop, because of his wife had stuff that was classified and shouldn't have been withere. rudy giuliani gave us an advance $ look at that. why would rudy know comey was going to release that about hillary clinton at such a critical moment in the campaign that many believe, including me, turned the election result in that last week and a half. >> there was reporting at the time that rudy giuliani had connection with fbi agents in the office that alerted him to this fact. >> did he push it? >> yes. that's what i believe. >> i want to start with eli here. i think trump, as much as he's sure of himself about everything, i think he doesn't know which way to go. i think he sees a hobson's choice here. he either fires a bunch of these guys and try to fire mueller and

short circuit this thing or he lets it proceed day by day and find something on him that'si impeachable. do you get eaten by a lion or by a tiger? what's he thinking here? what triggers this fickleness or weirdness? >> in part it just his personality. people say he's always been upset by the investigation hanging over him like a cloud. he feels like it a distraction, it undermines his claim on a legitimate win on the election to hear about collusion. that's why he's always aoout the saying no conclusion, no collusion, no collusion. he understand the important thing for him to do is to win this in the court of public opinion. there is this concerted effort. i don't know to what degree the president is part of these efforts by some members of congress, there's a lot of daylight between congressman

dent and goodlatte. >> congressman dent, what do you think trump is doing? does he not know which way to go to fire the bunch of them or take his hit? both involves i think getting beaten up and perhaps destroyed in history. i don't know which ones he thinks he should do. >> well, if -- we've been urging the president not to fire director mule are becaudirect o director mueller because it would set off a political crisis the like of which we haven't seen since watergate. it would be a terrible mistake. it would be terrible for the country and self-destubtistructr the president, it would hard republicans in the mid term. that's why we've introduced bipartisan legislation to protect the prosecutor. we have no expectation our

legislation will become law. >> he know what is he's done wrong. he knows all the conversations he's had with manafort and papadopoulos and gates and all the rest of them. he knows all the conversations he had with flynn and you don't know that. maybe the other door is just as scary to him. >> well, i tell you the door i'd be more scared of is a little let robert mueller and more what's going on with the raid on cohen's office in the raid in the southern district of new york. that to me would flight frightee if your lawyer has been raided. if he was on a wire or someone listening to his calls, that's a real exposure. >> and you don't even know karen mcdougal. i'm just kidding. he's got a lot of questions out there. thank you congressman and joyce vance and eli, my colleague here. coming up, the cohen threat.

trump's allies are warning that cohen may flip. cohen has said he'll take a bullet for trump but will he do 15 years for him? plus trump warns he'll walk out of a meeting with kim jong un if talks aren't going in the wrong direction. they're not demanding to us depart from the 38th parallel, which is good news. president trump said people don't realize the korean war hasn't ended. isn't that a pattern with the president? every time he learns something new, which is frequently, he declares the rest of us didn't know it before either. isn't that democratic? and i'm talking about the start of the revolution started april 19, 1775. this is "hard dball" where the action is.

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mnuchin today defended the trump administration days after a public clash with u.n. ambassador nikki haley. haley said the trump administration would unveil another round of sanctions on russia. larry kudlow said highly was confused. she responded by saying "with all due respect, i don't get refused." today secretary mnuchin tried to explain that disconnect. >> we refined the strategy after nikki made that announcement between saturday and sunday and monday, we refined the strategy and we will continue to refine the strategy. >> she must have gotten some indication from the white house that that was okay to say, they're coming from treasury on monday. who called them off on sunday? >> let me be clear, i was part of the decision to call them off, and that's something that

we're very comfortable with. >> why did nikki haley not get that message? >> i'm not going to go through specifics. >> she was left twisting in the wind. that's the problem. >> she wasn't left twisting in the wind. this was a fluid situation. the situation changed. nikki is a terrific spokesperson for the administration. situations change. you shouldn't read too much into this. >> these guys have got to stop talking condescendingly about nikki haley. she's one sharp politician, probably better than any of the other guys. be right back. goes here. test drive the ztrak z540r at your john deere dealer and learn why it's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast. nothing runs like a deere. save 250 dollars when you test drive and buy a john deere residential z540r ztrak mower. ♪ tired of wrestling with seemingly impossible cleaning tasks?

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days saying that michael cohen might flip." >> reporter: mr. president, could michael cohen flip. are you worried he's not loyal? >> thank you, everybody. i hope you saw the crowds in key west. never seen anything like that. it was really very inspirational. what we just witnessed was incredible. those crowds coming in, i think even the media will have to say that was quite something. thank you very much. >> according to reports, cohen is under criminal investigation potentially for bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign violations. while no charges have been filed against cohen, vanity reports cohen feels he's a means to an end, collateral damage and disposable element to get to his

old boss. emily j. fox has interviewed michael cohen multiple times. and katie, hold on for emily. emily, tell me what you know about the likelihood that a guy like cohen, who is fascinating to watch, the way he walks and swaggers and checks out the crowd of people checking him out. there's something that evokes something a little unseemly, a little mob maybe, something about him. i don't think he wants to go to hard time. your thoughts. >> there's definitely been a concerted effort from him last monday to make an appearance like he's living life like normal. >> you mean smoking the cigar out front? >> i think that's a show he does not want to be hiding right now, which is an atypical move for a

guy who has spent the last decade with donald trump. he wants to make the appearance that he is a tough guy who wants to go on with business as usual. two people close to him this weekend said to me there's a sort of vacillation going on in his psyche right now between his usual chest thumping, i did nothing wrong, i'm the collateral damage here and also understanding the gravity of the situation, not only for him but the impact that it could have on his family as well. there's an interesting psychological play that's going on, a duality. >> the actor on "saturday night live" played him in a sad way. do you think he's realizing that everything he owns, his cell phone, his laptop, his apartment, his hotel room, all of that is potentially in the matter of a couple weeks in the hand of the special counsel, robert mueller or the federal

authorities who could easily share all that information. they got him in a body frisk. >> i don't think it difficult to realize when 12 fbi agents knock on your hotel room at the crack of dawn and snatch your cell phone straight out of your hand. i think he understands according to these people close to him what he faces right now. but as much time as he'scess th half now, he's understanding for the first time his life will never be the same again. not only his relationship to donald trump, which is a man he's devoted his life to for more than a decade to, for other clients and for his family. that is a difficult pill for anyone to swallow. a person who has known michael cohen for more than a decade was asked if he would flip on the president? he said "michael might not think

he would flip on the president but he will." it may be beyond this man to take it. if all the evidence is already in a laundry chute heading towards the counsel, all of your stuff, it could all incriminate you, everything that's done that's fixing or shady, you don't have much to fess up to except, okay, you got me. >> it's kind of like a rat when it gets cornered. it evokes a fight or flight syndrome. is cohen going to fight, double down? >> how do you fight? >> that's the problem, you nailed it on the head to the extent of what is there left to hide anymore if the feds have all of your electronic device, all of your e-mails, your bank statements, those that got seized at multiple locations.

so the flight kicks in. he's settling lawsuits. he's invoking his fifth amendment right or threatening to do so in the stormy daniels lawsuit out in california. he's now figuring out that there is an oblique moment for me and do i risk my family or take that proverbial bullet for donald trump? and then there's this whole is there a presidential pardon being waved ala scooter libby. we thought it was going to be paul manafort that would be the beneficiary but maybe michael cohen things that trump may bless him with that presidential pardon. >> karen mcdougal was released from a contract. she's now fry ee to do and say whatever she wants. president trump has denied the allegations of course. the lawsuit alleged that michael

cohen was involved in the negotiations. >> if this litigation had continued, that's the first thing that would have happened. we would have sought to get documents and taken depositions, et cetera. >> and today michael cohen moved to drop a defamation lawsuit against buzz feed for accomplishing a copy of the infamous steele dossier. he described it as difficult but necessary given the events that have unfolded. we have dismissed the matters despite their merits. emily, when i was growing up there was a television show called "this is your life." ralph edwards did it. all these people from your past -- it nice for people who are celebrities with a pretty goo life. here's donald trump, this is your life. meet karen mcdougal! she's got a nine or ten-month affair to explain. these goblins keep coming out of

the wall against trump. there's going to be a lot more once they go through all that stuff in michael cohen file cabinets. it doesn't take much extrapolation to imagine she wasn't the only one or two or three. this guy's been around for years. so my question, this is just going to be hell on earth for him, right? a lot of journalism is coming this way. >> it could be. we are ingolden age of this sort of journalism. there are a number of lawyers on this case and so the fact that michael cohen is perhaps dropping cases or settling cases has a lot to do with the fact that he doesn't want to sit for depositions i can imagine. it also has to do with the fact that he's facing a tremendous number of legal bills coming his way in those cases and in the case to come in the southern district of new york. so there are a lot of lawyers on a lot of different people's

payrolls. >> do you like the new look of "vanity fair"? >> it fantastic. do you like it? >> i don't know, i like the old way. >> president trump says if his meeting with kim jong un couldn't doesn't go well, he'll get up and walk out the door. suppose they're in singapore? what do they hope to get from the north koreans and what will they agree to do for us? what does it take to make digital transformation actually happen? it takes dell technologies, a family of seven technology leaders working behind the scenes to make the impossible... reality. we're helping to give cars the power to read your mind from anywhere... and we're helping up to 40% of the nation's donated blood supply to be redirected to the people that need it most. magic can't make digital transformation happen... but we can.

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i hope to have a very successful meeting. if we don't think it's going to be successful, mark, we won't have it. we won't have it. if i think that it's a meeting that is not going to be fruitful, we're not going to go. if the meeting when i'm there is not fruitful, i will respectfully leave the meeting. and we'll continue what we're doing. >> of course welcome back to "hardball." that is what president trump expects with his upcoming meeting with kim jong un. the "new york times" reports the north korean regime has removed one major obstacle and this is for real. they're not going to demand we withdraw our troops from the 38th parallel. that came from south korea's president. i hope that's credible. axios reports president trump used the north korean crisis as a great man moment. sources say he generally

believes he and he alone can overcome the seemingly intractable disaster on the korean peninsula. he thinks just get me in the room with the guy and i'll figure it out. let's watch. >> i think president trump somehow feels he will walk in, slap the table like he's selling a building in manhattan and walk out the door to collect his noble praeeace prize. ain't going to happen. >> i'm joined by the director of the nuclear crisis group and former assistant to president obama. give me a worst case and good case. what can we get out of this meeting? >> i think the best thing we can hope for is that the leaders get along and that they agree the process of negotiating is going to continue. if we can actually get a dialogue started, we can

negotiate over how quickly can the nuclear weapons be removed, how many missiles will north korea allow to keep? >> can we get them to agree to freeze their program when we talk? >> right now the north korean program, at least the testing part is frozen. they're not testing missiles or nukes. we should be looking for a cap where they're not producing any more nuclear materials or ballistic missile. that requires a lot of inspectors on the ground. north korea has to reveal a lot. >> what could happen that would be really bad for our country, not just the president? >> my worst case is kim jong un says okay, you you're great, you got me, i'll give you all six nuclear weapons and 24 ballistic missile but you have to get off the peninsula. trump will say great, i'll do it -- >> they'll take our troops to the -- exposing seoul korea to whatever they feel like doing.

>> the worst case is that trump didn't listen to advisers who say you have to have a long-term inspection process. he'll say, no, no, i have a deal, it's done. is it possible that kim kicjong wants to join the world and reup i -- reunite his peninsula and the only way to do it is to move west, make himself not so scary and win a peninsula-wide election? >> i don't think his model is the west. if he's got a model in mind, it's china where he can maintain absolute control hereby gets to keep his nuclear weapons and economic development at the same time. that's what his father was trying for. >> the opposite of gorbachev. >> he wants to be like xi. he's offering for the trips to

stay in south korea and negotiating in the korean peninsula. he wants the photo-op with trump and play that back home and he can change whatever he's asked for. >> i must say nothing else has worked. under democratic presidents, under clinton it was give them coal. that didn't work. >> we've tried maximum pressure and maximum engagement. the truth is north korea may just want nuclear weapons and there may be no way out it have. >> people don't realize the korean war is still going on. just one of the many historical facts he thinks people don't know about because he didn't know about it. el... even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say?

control suits me. go national. go like a pro. ythen you turn 40 ande everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay? i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay." i like that.

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south korea is meeting and has plans to meet with north korea to see if they can end the war, and they have my blessing on that. they do have my blessing to discuss the end of the war. people don't realize the korean

war has not ended. it's going on right now. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump yesterday making an assumption that people don't know the korean war is still going on, they don't have a peace treaty between north and south. as it was pointed out in "the washington post" today, trump makes comments that begin with the variation of the phrase "most people don't know" and end with a nugget of information that those around him do indeed already know! let's watch some examples. >> what people don't realize about clemson, it's a great academic school. >> we will pay not to take the insurance. people don't understand that. >> france is america's first and oldest ally. a lot of people don't know that. >> when the economy italy is one of america's largest trading partners. a lot of people don't know that. >> a lot of people don't know the air force i project is

actually two blames. our first republican president, abraham lincoln, great president. a lot of people don't know he was a republican. a lot of people don't know that. let's take an ad, use one of those pacs. >> johnson asked is trump playing the role of educator in chief or simply sharing historical facts he's newly learned? we'll have that and more trump sound like that next with the "hardball" roundtable. that's it? yeah. that's it? everybody two seconds! "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ayep, and my teeth are yellow.? time for whitestrips. crest glamorous white whitestrips are the only ada-accepted whitening strips proven to be safe and effective.

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we just saw president trump has a pattern, don't you think, of prefacing facts with "most people don't know" or "most people don't realize." jenna johnson writes president trump's lessons are often accompanied by raised eyebrows and perhaps people are witnessing the president's education. dana is just waiting for this, columnist for "the washington post." first of all, i did know that the french were our allies in the american revolution. i have heard of lafayette is. and every republican certainly knows that lincoln was the first republican president. all republicans know that. did trump really go to college? i mean really. i mean really. did he just go to business school? i think he just went to business

school. that's my guess. >> he went to wharton undergrad. >> so he skipped college? >> he just did the undergrad program. >> so he took marketing? >> lots of marketing classes. not a lot of history classes. >> i don't think too many humanities, i don't think he took any literature. he's learning it on our watch so we have to listen to him sigh gue-- say guess what, i bet you didn't know. >> it reminds me of your 7-year-old nephew who learned a new word in school today and they repeat it over and over again. and everyone in the room nods their head. >> it is very puzzling because we know he did go to the best schools and we know he's, like, really smart. so it is surprising that he's come up with all these facts.

i have had that sensation, it's like the wonderment and the excitement of the discovery. it's like we're all his parent and we're proud that he's learning. i've been tracking this for a while. he learned and most people don't know this but war is expensive, that iraq has oil reserves, that he we have a trade deficit with mexico. and most don't know what a value added tax is or that bill clinton signed nafta. it hard being the president and you learn something new every day. >> like frederick douglas who wasn't getting enough congratulations. >> and he's shown a lack of historic knowledge in some situations. he talked about 19th century fred tri frederick douglas in the present tense. >> frederick douglas is someone who has done an amazing job and

getting noticed more and more. >> i think he gave his first presentation 400 years ago. >> when you say he democratizes his ignorance, by saying nobody else could possibly know this information because i have the best brain. >> he does know some things that nobody else knows. >> how much you pay a new york city councilman for a privilege -- >> he's also the guy who knew that andrew jackson could have stopped the civil war and he knew that napoleon wouldn't have had so much trouble when he went into russia if he didn't have those extra curricular activities the night before. >> this is for you, jason. there's an ethnic aspect to this. he said that human trafficking is now worse than it's ever been. >> oh, yeah, i know!

>> did you ever hear of the slavery triangle? >> this is what reminds people all the time. you can't tell if you're offended by him or disgusted. i'm pretty sure slavery is the worst kind of human trafficking -- >> did you ever see "roots"? all people came here and -- >> but i think the president again it's because no one holds him accountable. no one has ever just asked him in the administration -- >> can you imagine the staff guy or woman who says i knew that, mr. president. that would go over really well. >> there is a sort of a serious aspect to this, though. sometimes you don't know. i think when he came out with his slogan america first, maybe some people he didn't realize that that was used in the 30s. >> it was done by the people accused of being nazi sympathizers. >> sometimes trump will go a step further and say washington

needs to simply the way they talk about complicated issues. let's watch. >> tax reform doesn't work because we do have tax reform but people don't understand that what we're doing is cutting taxes. we're also reforming but that could be an increase in taxes. we're cutting taxes. so we go the tax cut and jobs plan. >> and he argued no one knew community was or what is community college? here he is explaining that. >> call it vocational and technical perhaps, but use vocational because that's what it's all about. people know what that means. we don't know what a community college means. >> well, he's typed merry christmas. people think community college is some casual thing you pick up a photography course. it how you get jobs because you've improved your technical and useful education. >>and takx reform is a phrase -

>> so he's smart. he's a marketer. >> he had an innovation a couple of weeks ago and said "i just j phrase, prime the pump. >> he did not. >> it was almost 80 years ago, the great depression. but he just discovered it. >> it reminds me of spiro agnew that didn't know calling somebody soft on communism was a bad thing to do. he never heard it before. the roundtable is sticking with us. by the way, he was the former vice president. they're going to tell me something i don't know. we didn't know that. i'm just kicking. you're watching "hardball." ersu. a lot of paints say they can do the job, but just one can "behr" through it all.

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. (burke) seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ we're back with the roundtable. annie, tell me something i don't know. isn't that funny, things we don't know? >> we know everything. >> so new england's biggest donor to republican causes is a

guy named seth carman. he gave $7 million under the obama administration to republicans to finance the complete republican takeover of the federal government, and he does not like what he has seen. so he has switched and now this mega donor has become a democratic donor. >> oh. he goes all the way to the democrats. >> he went through kasich all the way to the democrats. >> i'm going to start like trump. a lot of you guys don't know this. >> we will now. >> of course everybody in d.c. is concerned about the possibility of trump firing mueller. but it turns out that this is not just a d.c. story. it's really hitting the heartland. yesterday the pittsburgh gazette reported the chief of police in pittsburgh has asked all plainclothes officers to bring their uniforms and riot gear to work for the foreseeable future in anticipation of trump firing mueller and there being riots in the streets. >> in pittsburgh. that's a calm town. >> you've heard of big tobacco

trying to manipulate science. >> i'm just hearing about it now. >> but now we have a problem with big pasta. some canadian researchers came out with a study that said eating a lot of pasta does not make you unhealthy, does not make you gain weight. it was picked up by a lot of newspapers and outlets. but as buzzfeed noticed, they failed to pick up the fact that the researchers were paid by barilla, the largest maker of pasta. >> so am i supposed to have my catholic lunch tomorrow of mac and cheese or not? >> according to the makers of barilla pasta, you are able to eat as much as you'd like. just some food for thought. >> we should have that kind of pasta. it's perfect for friday food. jason, thank you. annie, thank you. dana, you're so funny. i didn't know you were until now. when we return, i'm going to finish with this day in history. there's more history than mr. trump is ready for tonight. this is really funny we're doing this tonight. it's so synchronized. you're watching "hardball."

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let me finish tonight with this day in history, the anniversary of the shot heard round the world. it was on april 19th, today, 1775 that shots were fired in the battles of lexington and concord, sparking the american revolution. it was the first time blood was shed in the fight for american independence, a fight that lasted seven years. to look back at that fight in the spirit that it deserves, a

think a moment of reflection about how this country came into being and where it's headed now. as written in the declaration of independence, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they're endowed by their ceoor with certain inail yabl rights. to keep those rights and ensure they have meaning today is going to take continued diligence, don't you think? but also aggressive exercise of those rights. with a president now who seems to value loyalty to him personally over freedom of expression and even rule of law, we need to celebrate those who exercise their crucionstitution rights to speak out. barack obama today talked about the florida students. most of them can't even vote yet, but they have the power so often inherited in youths, to see the new. the power to insist that america

can be better. to insist that america be better is of course a driving force of the american spirit itself. i'm proud to say as a philadelphia native, the seat of our republic now is home to a new museum of the american revolution in philadelphia. a wondrous new place that honors the revolution that gave birth to our country, a revolution that must and does continue today. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i've always found paul manafort to be a very decent man. >> a rare window into the mueller probe. prosecutors say they suspect manafort had back-channel talks with russia. >> it's absurd. you know, there's no basis to it. >> tonight new reporting on trump's personal lawyer and his alleged ties to russian money. >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump, the family. then why did michael cohen just drop his buzzfeed