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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  April 21, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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institution. >> as we heard throughout the day, this library incredibly important to the legacy to barbara bush and george bush as well. president bush and his family in the cars that you see there comprising that motorcade, making their way not burial site for barbara bush. down in college station in texas in. in just a few moments members will go to the burial place. that's not going to happen on camera. that's a private ceremony. just pause it here as members of the family make their way past the library.
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there. there we see i believe former secretary of state james baker emerging from one of the cars. members of barbara bush's family, friends emerging from the motorcade. joe fryer, my colleague down in college station, giver us a sense of who's going to be attending this particular part of the day here if you would, joe. as i said, we had more than 1,000 people gathered in the church in houston, this is a
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much smaller group, is it not. >>reporter: yeah, definitely much smaller. they haven't given us details on who it's going to be, just immediate family members who are going to be there along with the clergy. we know it's going to be a small part of everything that happens today and it's expected to be very brief. the cadets are there to greet the procession as it comes in there. this is meant to be the most private part of the day. as public as the bush family has been and as honest and open as barbara bush was throughout her life, they really want this to be an intimate event away from the cameras and away from all of the attention, just time for the most immediate family members to be able to say their good-byes and pay their fine fall respects to barbara bush as she's laid to rest. >> richard li -- rich, you were
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watching that service this morning as well. what stood out to you? as i said, i kind of delighted in the softer side of barbara a that we saw. emphasis on the sense of humor, the role she played in keeping this dynasty together. >> david, people have called her the enforcer. that other part of the pair that was george h.w. bush over the years and being able to hear them look back at the strength she brought not only to the bush family but to the country. we all remember her as being the mother of the country, if you will. remember the silver hair is what stood out for so many as we watch now, this, as they arrive, some of thinking of those days and what she meant to the country. of course david, thank you for all of that coverage. as we now watch the final moments of today's events there in texas. remembering the first lady, barbara bush, as she is -- her
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body now makes it towards the library and we'll continue to watch what is happening. those pictures from moments ago, we'll get you right back there as we begin a new hour. as we do start this hour, along with what has been happening there in texas and college station, the news that we've been watching from around the world. one of the key head lines we're watching, north korea and the reason because of the new developments when it comes to what kim jong-un is saying. that he will stop missile testing and close a test site. major development ahead of next months summit with president trump. what will impact the nation there in -- on the korean peninsula and the united states as well. plus we have a memo flop. attempts to undermine comey's -- celebrating the life of a political matriarch.
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motorcade arriving moments ago. taking former first lady bato h final resting place. we're going to start this hour. 4:00. after a week of major developments involving president trump, he is now firing back. this morning, the president tweeting james comey illegally leaked classified documents to the press in order to generate a special council. that done by the president, no the by us. therefore, the special counsel was established by any illegal act? really does anybody know what that means? >> also the "new york times" reporting advisers belief michael cohen may flip on the president to mueller's team given he is already facing legal troubles of his own. for more let's bring in our panel. great to see both of you. first off, let's do talk about
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this. if we can in what your reporting is the latest and the situation when it comes to michael cohen and if he has flipped and what may cause him to flip. >> right. so michael cohen probably knows more dirty secrets if there are some about donald trump's past. he's been the lawyer. now a lot of those secrets if he this exist are in the hands of the fbi in the southern district attorney of new york. trump tweeted today that he does not think michael cohen will flip. he's a stand-up guy. he attacked the "new york times" reporter who wrote the story and said he did not talk to her. his interviews have appeared on h her line multiple times. he's sending a message to him stay strong, don't flip. i think an important piece of context is we're only talking about flipping if there's something for him to present to
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the prosecutors. if there is nothing to present, if michael cohen didn't do anything wrong there's no concern. >> this is not part necessarily directly specifically of mueller's investigation, but a lot of people are asking what might that linkage later on be? >> absolutely. cohen is certainly a key fixture in not only the ongoing saga involving the feds raiding the office and hotel room but also at the very least somewhat of interest to federal authorities when it comes to the trump/russia affair. when it comes to the president's full throated defense of mr. cohen, in recent days and earlier today, how he was very vocal on twitter about how, oh, i don't think michael cohen would ever turn on me.
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we have a good relationship. privately, as we reported at the daily beast earlier today, when he was talking to aides and associates, he has said things like quote, we'll see. when they start pondering the potential whether he will crack under pressure and cooperate. there is a strong sense within trump world and within the white house itself that michael cohen could very well, if applied enough pressure, due to everything they have on him right now, snitch. and that's not my term. that's is what several people relayed to me individually. >> alex, when you look at this story, and in your reporting along with his here, what might cause him to flip? we've read and maggie haberman's piece the relationship between the two. not necessarily always put in the best light in terms of the description coming from president trump about michael cohen. what might be that point, and what might he flip on?
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might it be on all of these issues or specific issues? >> we've seen a larger number of people wrapped up in this larger investigation cooperate. michael flynn comes to mine. but michael cohen has a family, kids, and his relationship, as you said, has not been both ways with the president. president has reportedly been cruel to him, treated him poorly, threatened to fire him disrespected him, and michael o oh said he would take a bullet for him. many of the people around him have ended up in worst shape. but trump has one major potential thing in his pocket, which is the pardon power and paul manafort is out there also ha having a lot of pressure applied
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to him. will that be enough? will michael cohen say? i don't know. >> i want to move on to another topic, something that happened on friday. as the two, you know that happens to us very often, about jeff sessions. s information coming out that he did speak with white house counsel, chief lawyer there, and he said basically, if rod rosenstein is gone, i may have to go too. and become untenable. >> what's the reading on that? >> well, the funny thing is the president of the united states and attorney general jeff sessions have had many patches of thin ice during their relationship together while the trump era has been going on. but, you mentioned rod rosenstein earlier. the more salient question is whether or not, as people have been reporting, including us at the daily beast for weeks if not months now, it's not a day that ends in why if the president in
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the united states isn't considering firing rod rosenstein. so sessions can say that all he wants. but pretty soon, that might become a very stark reality for him that he'll have to deal with. so, that "new york times" report is true, we'll see if jeff sessions puts his money where his mouth is. >> alex, 15 seconds. >> well, jeff sessions i think doesn't want to have his department messed with. he posed for a photo very publicly with rod rosenstein in show of support a few weeks ago. i think this is a warning shot to the white house. >> good to see you both. thank you very much. next, north korea suspends missile tests and closes a nuclear site. president trump calling it progress. but what's kim jong-un's strategy on this?
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it's simple. easy. awesome. welcome back. kim jong-un announcing a suspension of north korea's nuclear and long range missile testing, also saying he will shut down a nuclear test site. kim said the tests are no longer needed because the country has already met its nuclear objectives. it comes ahead of two historic summits, one next week with south korea's president, and a planned face-to-face with president trump. now trump welcomed kim's announce the, tweeting -- this is very good news for north korea and the world. big progress. >> joining me now, author of nuclear showdown.
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great to always have both of you here on this topic. let's talk about this. what are we missing in the story? what is kim jong-un giving up as tensabas -- ostensibly? that test site worth shutting down? >> they're going to have to shut it down anyway because after the sixth test, the mountain became unstable. if they had another detonation there the whole thing could have collapsed. you would have had radioactivity short of floating into china. ki kim didn't want that but had to. this sort of goes back to when his father blew up the tower. >> it's on its way out anyway is what you're saying. kind of like the house that's going to be torn down because of the situation. what is next here, joe?
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they ha they're giving away these things. how do you verify that? the two of you know so well the verification inspection process historically has -- had fits and starts, right? and not always yielded what the iaea, what the united nations security council wanted. what do you expect will be different this time around? >> this is the beginning of a long process. gordon's right. some of the steps they announced yesterday were things they had to do or were going to do anyway. nonetheless, they represent real gains for american national security. they pledged to stop testing nuclear weapons and long range missiles, not export or cell this technology. close the test site. this stops the program from moving forward. that's great, but it is not denuclearize. it is not giving up the program.
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and, as you say, we have to verify that. that requires negotiations and agreements. this is statements. they gave us many things we wanted for free but now the tough part comes. this is where summit with donald trump is going to be so important. can he nail these things down? what other carrots can he get kim to offer up. >> just in terms of looking at the history and number of inspections, we have to go back to '09 when north korea said no more will you be able to do this. but it has been like every ten years more or less where we've had progress. moving on to the topic here, gordon, i want to address the issue of audiences which you've talked about before. north korea, kim jong-un, kind of if you will, a good communicator for the asia region at least in terms of knowing you ho to leverage media. he certainly has south korea which he's looking south too. he definitely has the united
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states. what's this about? >> if it we were the primary audience, kim would have made this announcement after summit with the south korea president and just on the eve of seeing donald trump. i think this was more directed to south korea. he's about to meet the south korean president who is very sympathetic to north korea. i think what he's trying to do is achieve the peace treaty end formally the korean war, get aid and see if they can have a confederation, merger of the two states on some sort of loose arrange.. that would be a big step forward for the kim regime. >> wow, okay. so joe, just take that for a moment. think about it. if that is certainly thepeninsu. or just for familiar reasons for the issue of history, where do
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you put it? >> i agree with gordon right up to that point. south korea doesn't want to reunify with the north, particularly those under 30, the younger population. there's not going to be any forced reunification here. economic assistance, growth, kim said this himself in the statement. he indicates he's shifting, since now accomplished, as he said, the historic nuclear process. now we shift to socialist economic construction, his words. he needs south korea for that. he needs the united states. he needs normalized relations, china. that's the purpose of the summit. he has masterfully orchestrated this. kim is a lot smarter than he looks. he's laid down a trail of carrots to make sure donald trump shows up at that summit legitimizes him, just with the photo op, it will be a strange photo op, a lot of hair talk in that but one that puts kim on the level of the president of the united states. that goes alo long way.
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>> oh, joe, you went there, didn't you? let me move to former secretary of defend. early architect of nuclear deterrence. now moved forward and watching north korea for so many decades. he said this. quote, the north koreans are going in from a position of strength. they have built the nuclear deterrent. they're not going to give that up very lightly. true or fault there gordon? >> well, true, they're not going do give it up lightly. i think we have the high cards, u.n. sanctions and u.s. sanctions are starting to bite the regime. kim family slush fund is running out of cash. >> who's coming from strength? >> i think we are but obviously he has driving events. trump can change the narrative but only if he exercises american power. >> joe, one word, united states
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or -- not one word. is it united states or north korea who are ahead in this very debate and negotiation? >> kim is calling the tune and he's trying to make donald trump dance to it. he looks like the reasonable one here. trump's going to have to come up with something to give him to make this even a draw at summit. >> okay. no comment about hair on that. last comment. thank you so much. we had a great conversation. >> thank you richard. next, president trump defending personal attorney michael cohen saying he will not flip. plus rudy's ready. giuliani's plan to help president trump end the russian investigation. ♪ you're simply the best.
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joining me now, new york one political reporter. defense attorney and former prosecutor. rediscovering our founders vision. grace, starting with you. this is your -- you know michael cohen well for many years before this whole thing happened. has he flipped already? what will cause him to flip? what has he been up to? >> for starters, we don't know whether or not he's flipped but it seems clear if anyone is going to have incriminating information about president trump it's going to be him. and yes, he is an has been the president's attorney, but he's so much more than that. we're calling him a fixer. that's really the best term to use when describing michael cohen. for myself, i first met him years before trump was running for president. he welcome acted like a liaison to reporters. anyone who wanted to interact with trump basically went through cohen. he had a sort of different role
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in trump's orbit. he's someone who made bad things go away for the president. >> we've seen the video of him after this whole thing coming down and he seems to be out and about enjoying himself in manhattan. what's his sort of demeanor from what you know of him? how is he dealing with in? >> well, so on the one hand i think he's trying to put a positive public foot forward. we saw that video of him hanging out, outside the regency hotel when he was supposed to have been in court and in fact was admonished by the judge who essentially said to the lawyers why is your client not here. there were images of him outside with his buddies smoking cigars, which maybe gichbdidn't go over in court. publicly seems to be saying i'm doing okay. but there was a reporter who overheard him say my wife did not sign up for this. he said that privately. i think it speaks to the fact
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this is something that is an incredibly difficult situation. he has a family. there are serious legal threats hanging over you. what does he do? >> karen, as we look at this back and forth between not only michael coenand his attorneys, but also the judge, like who's going to review what, what will go forward. that is not specifically part necessarily of bob mueller's investigation, but might it be? >> everything is so overlapped. it's disconcerting because there's a lot of attorney privilege issues here, rules of conduct. do the prosecutors have the propensity to leak, i think the answer to that is probably yes. we don't know where everything's coming from. he we had the report of sean hannity. even if you ask them anything, covered by attorney/client
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privilege. of course the attorney would ask the judge not to allow them to do it. to do it in what we call in camera. if there's a lot of information, how can a judge take on that information and review it. it's almost impossible. you almost have to trust it to the prosecutors. is there a resolution to that? can you put someone from the cohen team. i would not be okay if i was a client. i think the attorney/client privilege is something that makes all attorneys, democrat and republicans very uneasy, rip ard. >> adding to all of this, rudy giuliani now part of this story back in there to try to help the president. listen to what he said. question is what did he know when he talked about the october surprise back in october 2016. listen to what was said then first. >> i think he's got a surprise or two that you're going to hear
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about. i mean im 'm talking about pret surprise. >> i heard you say that what do you mean? >> you'll see. >> then there was james comey. and then discussing that very topic. well, did he know something? james comey's saying well, he did see this reporting. he did see that interview and he said well we'll have to look into it. >> did rudy giuliani and therefore the president trump campaign have advance notice from inside the fbi from the new york field office or wherever that this announcement from you was coming? >> not that i know of, but i saw that same publicity so i commissioned and investigation to see if we could understand whether people were disclosing information out of the new york office or any other place that resulted in rudy's report on "fox news." >> so sophia, as you probably heard, many have said the new york office is conducive towards leaks, could very well have happened, perhaps not. what's your reflection on
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giuliani being part of the story? >> three things. number one, president trump is clearly communicating to michael cohen to stay the course. do not flip. do not turn on me. number two, i think cohen is going to flip, and number 3, i think that's the reason giuliani and others, perhaps even dershowitz, if they can get him. there's rumors he'll become part of the team. he needs to get a legal team and people politically savvy. as we all know rudy giuliani is. i think he's gearing up with what he expects will happen. i said this on nicole's show weeks ago. absolutely, he's got to flip. because as you've said, he's got a family, a legal license on the line. and you know what else about lawyers? having been one, i tell you what, if i were engaged in nefarious activity, if i were going to be, i would have a cya files i like to call it and i would know where all the bodies
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were buried and where trump was and who was doing what, and if it came down and the fbi raided my place i'd be able to sing like a bird. >> he probably has a very large file. why do you think he's going to flip? >> he's got to. why would you defend or go to jail or give up your whole life for president trump who's loyal to nobody. look at what he did on twriitte this morning. it's the funeral of barbara kbu bush. you'd think he would be quiet and respectful. of course not. michael cohen knows better than anybody on earth save maybe melania. >> quickly karen. rudy jieli rudy giuliani. >> depending on what he's supposed to do. >> mueller investigation. >> well, grace will tell you they're good friends, there's a relationship between mueller and
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rudy giuliani, so, first of all, the investigation is not going to end, but politically savvy, somebody who's friends a good move. >> i think giuliani's relationship with the fbi and mueller is the reason he's been brought on board. we'll see if he's able to do anything i'm not convinced these relationships will have a difference at all. they may calm the president down. >> it's going to keep on going on until 2020. so h. >> sophia. >> i think the ship is sinking and i think the rats are scattering. pay attention, this is unfolding. >> keep your eyes open. all of them. sophia nelson, thank you so much. karen de soto. thank you. coming up, jeff sessions' dilemma. his warning to the white house. we have that. captivating exteriors
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new questions are being raised about the comey memos, the documents recounting the meetings with president trump now the subject of a justice department review. at issue, whether comey, improperly disclosed classified material when he shared the memos with a friend. president trump tweeting james comey illegally leaked classified documents to the press in order to generate a special council question mark. thereof it was established based on an illegal act.
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really? does everybody nknow what that means. here to subpoena the justice department. president trump claiming the memos show there was no collusion and no obstruction. in reality, they appear to support comb my's retelling of the events when you look at it. . former director for the hillary clinton presidential campaign. michael, chief investigator corresponde correspondent. so let's start with this. barbara, when we look at the memos, we look at the claim, just because it's a latest comment being made by the president, that this was classified information, we know that when these memos in the issues in question were not at that moment classified information, later, after these particular memos were out, and were written and passed on they then were brought on to the
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lowest level of confidentiality. where are we at with these now and what do you think will happen with this investigation? >> well, documents can have their classification changed at any time. you can take something that was at one point unclassified and make it classified later 0 down the road. some of concerned there could be potential for abuse in that after the fact. ret toe active retroactive retroactively. key factor this matter regarding whether james comey could be charmed criminally is you have to show your disclosure was a willful violation of the law. that means he had to have known at the time that he handed this over that they were classified. if they were classified after the fact, there can be no violation of the law. >> also the development that we saw in this week, adrian, was the dnc lawsuit. and the comparisons have been made by watergate and the way that started. fill that out for us. >> yeah.
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well first of all i'm so glad they filed this lawsuit because there needs to be justice for the employees who were hacked. we actually look the way the lawsuit is laid out. you realize how much has happened even how much we've learned even since the dnc staff were hacked. and the fak there's been no recourse or justice for the staff i'm glad they're taking this measure. >> in the years you've been reporting on, give us some perspective, the context of what this new dnc lawsuit and what is similar to the watergate case? >> right. well, i wasn't reporting during watergate. >> right. that we know. >> student reading about it. but the dnc did file a lawsuit against the nixon reelection committee early on. before there was a especially prosecutor investigating. they were trying to smoke out
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the rnc employees to try to find documentation or evidence tying it to the mnixon white house. this is a little fwdifferent because it's coming after the fact. and we have a special counsel. i'm not sure it's as analogous as it might first seem. given the nature of civil litigation, this is going to drag out for quite some time to see -- it's -- we still have to see whether or not it clears basic hurdles of whether the trump campaign officials named in there will be -- will survive as defendants. we don't know. but i think it is far more likely we're going to learn from mueller's investigation and
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possibly the senate committee investigation far more than we're ever going to get from this lawsuit. >> barbara, when you look at the memos, the seven memos that came out, whose argument does it support? those who are critical of the mueller investigation or those who support it, or neither? >> well, it's really interesting. i learned in law school it's about how you frame the issue. the critics are saying these memos don't prove obstruction or collusion. comey defenders say they don't purport to. these are just a small piece of the whole case. these are the reflections of jim comey's interactions with president trump, a tiny fragment of the entire case. but i think they support him in that they confirm all of the things that he has been saying. so at a trial, this is the kind of thing that can be used to refresh one's recollection and to rehabilitate a witness who z credibility has been attacked. if someone were to attack jim
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comey saying these were things you made up after the fact because you were disgruntled, he can say no, this is what i wrote down before i was fired. this was my recollection at the time. it tends to corroborate his own statement now and rebut any allegation that this is a recent fabrication. >> what's your thought here, adrian? does it help or hurt the mueller investigati investigation? >> the release of the comey memos? i think that's left to be seen. but what i think is continuously fascinating is our president continues to tweet there's no collusion. these comey memos do not prove collusion. to barbara's point that's not what they were intended to do. they were intended for him to have a track record of his conversations with the president, conversations with other key administration officials so he has, proof of evidence in case something happens which now we're dealing
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with. fact this is some sort of like proof point that there has not been collusion is laughable and absurd. >> michael, as a senior investigator reporter and as you look through the very details here of not only in the comey memos but what he had written in his book and what he has said during the interviews, any inconsistencies you've seen? >> i don't see any real inconsistencies there. i did find the comb yey memos te fascinating, actually more interesting reading than the book itself. first, because the reaction of president trump. his de scrscriptionsdescription. on that which got president trump most exercise, the golden showers allegation. that's something we go into in great depth in russian roulette.
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we spent a lot of time on that. at the end of the day, it is worth noting that as we point in the book, christopher steele, the author of the memos has conceded the evidence is no better than 50/50 that it ever actually took place. which is pretty striking given the amount of attention it's got. yet, look at trump's reaction. he was inflamed about this and then said something that's demonstrably not true to comey, which is that he never even spent the night in moscow. an hour by hour account of the two days he spent in moscow, there's testimony from his own security chief that he escorted trump back to his hotel room that night. there's no question that trump spent the night in moscow yet he's still lying to the fbi about this. it's those sorts of reaction that does give pause to many
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people when they look at these allegations. why does he continue to misrepresent the facts. >> that will be the question. thank you three. >> thanks. >> all righty. tomorrow's headliners takes an in-depth look at nimichael flynn. that's tomorrow, 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. rst time. trying something new can be exciting. empowering. downright exhilarating. see for yourself why chevrolet is the most awarded and fastest growing brand, the last four years overall. switch into a new chevy now. current competitive owners can get $5,000 below msrp on this 2018 equinox when you finance with gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer.
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trouble is mounting today for missouri governor. the state's top republican was charged friday with two new felony counts of computer tampering. there are claims that he used donations for his campaign. that is in addition to he is already facing felony charges to an affair. he was indicted in february on allegations that he took semi-nude photos of a woman to use for blackmail. he denies those allegations and
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calls the latest charges an effort to smear him. let's go to jason. thanks for joining us today. there is at the moment, when we look at the gop legislator, they have been considering here potential impeachment proceedings. where are we in that? >> this week house speaker todd richardson called for him to resign. that was a pivotal moment in this situation because he commands bipartisan respect and that bipartisan respect is going to be enough, i believe, to give the majority of house members the ability to impeach him. it will be up to a judge to decide if he is thrown out of office. >> he has refused to concede anything regarding these allegations. talk to us more about that and what his logic might be. >> for most political figures the amount of troubles that he
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has accumulated over the past few weeks would have caused them to resign. he is the exception to that. he has refused to step down since his affair became public in january. ever since then it seems that things are getting worse and worse and worse for him. even after this latest felony charge in st. louis, he is going to try to fight that case. and, again, even amid bipartisan calls for him to step aside, he's refusing to do so. >> we talk about this because it's important to missouri and because of the national implications. when we look at the vice president who campaigned with him, does this mean that the white house distance itself from him? >> it may be challenging because mike pence's chief of staff was a pretty major campaign consultant for him in 2016.
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the ties are there at least in that respect. you haven't heard either the president or the vice president saying very much about this. as his troubles continue to mount, though, and the bipartisan calls for his resignation increase in missouri and possibly nationally, it's not out of the question they may have to say something more in the days ahead. >> especially on the topic of these alleged charges against him of an affair as well as blackmail. i want to move to a balance of power in the senate. mccaskill is very close to losing her seat. what does this mean for what the
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state republican party may have to do? >> it depends on what he does next. if he resigns or is thrown out of office, i'm not sure this is going to effect that race that much, especially how popular donald trump is in that state. mccaskill needs to peace together an urban coalition and she may be able to get enough republicans who are upset to eventually get her to a third term. >> does it make this more complicated because josh holly is the state attorney general. >> it makes things uncomfortable for holly. he's not the person in charge of this felony, but he did forward the information to the attorney
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here and there is a nasty feud that will probably not be helpful to unifying the republican party here. >> thank you so much, jason. >> thank you for having me. still ahead, trump unleashed. the president takes on james cuo com comey, "the new york times" and the dnc, but he praised north korea's decision to stop nuclear tests. that and more. stick around. owners always seem so happy? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru forester holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class according to alg. better than cr-v. better than rav4. better than rogue. an adventure that starts with a subaru forester will always leave you smiling. get 0% apr financing on the 2018 subaru forester. the full value of your new car? you're better off throwing your money
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and a very good saturday to you. thanks for being with us on this day. nuclear announcement. the reaction to kim jong-un's pledge to stop missile testing. president trump calling that progress, but after north korea abandoned every nuclear agreement in the past, what might be different this time. we have james comey's notes on his immediatinmeetings with president. the state department is reviewing whether he disclosed classified material. remembering barbara bush's legacy. we're going to start this hour with the new developments from north korea. kim jong-un announcing he will halt that country's nuclear and long-range missile testing and closing a nuclear test site. kim said the tests are no longer needed because the country has