eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now.. >> is there a doctor in the house? let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris maths in washington. new explosive allegations against nominee ronny jackson. democratic of the veterans affairs committee released a list of accusations now against jackson. among them is, multiple individuals cited the nickname candyman used by white house staff because he would provide whatever prescriptions they sought without paperwork. a nurse noted that jackson wrote himself prescriptions when caught, he had someone else, his physician assistants do it. and at a secret service going away party, jackson got drunk and wrecked a government vehicle. jackson denied all allegations

including wrecking that car. he said he was still moving ahead as planned with his nomination. earlier in the day, white house press secretary sarah sanders defended the vetting process. >> dr. jackson's record as a white house physician has been impeccable. dr. jackson has had at least four independent background investigations conducted during his time at the white house including an fbi investigation conducted as part of the standard nomination vetting process. >> is the white house going to look into the allegations that have been made against him about drinking on the job. >> certainly something we would look at, absolutely. >> the democratic report quotes colleagues can calling jackson flat out unethical. toxic. abusive. and volatile. senator jon tester of montana, ranking democrat on the committee discussed his findings on msnbc earlier today. >> starting about a week ago, chuck, we've got claims, accusations that were made.

and we're following up talking to some 23 different people. there's more that come forth every day about some of the challenges that admiral jackson had as chief of the white house medical unit. it would be senatorial malpractice for us not to follow up on this issue and find out what kind of a person ronny jackson is. >> i'm joined by hallie jackson, chief white house correspondent, leanne caldwell, capitol hill reporter, and yamiche alcindor, msnbc political analyst. hallie, how could all this go unknown and all of a sudden he's up for va and we're learning horrible stuff about him. >> is the argument sarah sanders made from the podium today is this a guy who has passed four background checks for his position inside the administration. they're arguing, hey, he's at arm's length literally with

three presidents, former presidents bush, obama and donald trump now. that's sort of what they're laying out. i will tell you that the public line. privately there is acknowledgement of concern in and around the white house how it the nomination was rolled out, about how this was handled from the very beginning given that there is some concern that jackson's story wasn't fully told, that he hadn't had a chance to talk about his resume, biography, experience and credentials. i ran into ronny jackson along with kristen welker in a surprise interview. i think he was a bit taken aback to see reporters upstairs in the west wing although did he answer a couple of questions regarding some of those explosive allegations coming out in the document obtained by nbc news which you've discussed put together by democrats on the veteran affairs complete. he says he's never wrecked a car. that is one of the allegations that he got o got drunk after a party and crashed a government vehicle. jackson denied that that ever happened. he said he doesn't know where

the allegations are coming from. he says he is still moving forward. we're told by a white house official that he told the president these accusations are false and misleading. if you're going to pick a word to describe the mood at the white house tonight, it seems to be defiant. >> what do you hear about him? he's the white house -- he's the president's physician and he's supposedly now a boozer who drinks all the time on the job and nobody noticed it? >> reporter: let's clarify a couple of things. the allegation is he drinks on the job while traveling overseas with the president. ronny jackson denied it to the president. >> no, that he's drunk on the plane and unable to be do his job. that's the accusation. >> while in close contact with the president which gives senator tester such concern. from people under the obama administration, he was a decent guy, a good doctor. did he his job. and you point to the white house points to performance reviews

from president obama in which he lavishes praise upon jackson, recommending him for promotions to be sort of raised up inside the white house medical office and up till recently, there was not much of a sense i think inside the administration that these things were lurking or at least these questions or allegations were lurking in his background. where are the allegations coming from? nearly two dozen current and former cleefgz jackson's some of whom are still in the military. white house is casting this as basically him getting railroaded by what they call a bitter ex-colleague. >> one person is doing this they're saying? >> no, no, listen, there is some discussion about. >> i thought there was 23. >> right, that's what the number who have come forward with allegations. the white house is casting this as a dispute between ronny jackson and the guy who came before him, the doctor with whom there was some issues based on reporting and these internal documents. >> there's more coming. the democratic report describes a work environment in which

admiral jackson would treat subordinates poorly according to report. he was viewed as someone who would roll over anyone, worked his way on the backs of others and abusive to those below him. a kiss up, kick down boss, i've heard of those before. his needs about putting his needs above everyone else. leanne from the little this sounds like the reports coming from vietnam. the guy's great. you talk to the enlisted people and it's horrendous, the people below are giving a different store r story than the big shots bob him. >> we hear that about senators all the time. nors who everybody says how wonderful they are and their staffs hate them. >> that's absolutely true. there's horror stories working for some members. these allegations were compiled. these are explosive. hosteling it the truth? >> that's the thing. >> i think tester believes the little guys are telling the truth. >> i think he does.

he hasn't said that. but the fact he released these allegations he's done media appearances talking about them. he's more inclined i think to believe these i asked him today, have you been talking to jackson? he said he hasn't talked to jackson in quite awhile. >> okay. yamiche, this is really pretty clear-cut. it's not do you like the guy or not, his temperament. did you crash the car? does he drink a lot when they get on the plane together with the president as his number one patient? and he's drunk. it's not like he has a few drinks. he's drunk a lot. this thing about concierge medicine giving out pills all the time, having a nickname candy man. this is flagrant. it's one or the other. >> the thing is the key question here is, if all of these allegations are true, how did he survive three presidents? how did he go from george bush. >> who has been covering for him. >> what's the vetting process been when he's been passed over to the next president because it

is undeniable there are harnd written notes from obama. we're not talking about somebody who typed this up on a computer. i saw with my own two eyes the signature of obama saying he's a great doctor. he's doing great. those are the things that the white house is saying. the problem is that i think that ronny jackson has the been backing the white house publicly. the president did not roll out the obama taking points. yesterday he made it clear, if i was jackson, i would probably be backing out of this issue. to me he's given him an off-ramp. i would not surprised if ronny jackson said i don't want to go to this hearing and get all this on the recorded. >> you jonathan, it seems to me that if this guy continued as the president's doctor, none of this would have come out. the only reason any of it cape out is he's about to run the veterans administration and finally we realized he drinks a lot, gives away med medicine he shouldn't give away, acts as a sort of concierge doctor,

candyman to the white house staff and abusive to people below him. we're learning this after having served three presidents and treated as some sort of impeccable being. it doesn't hold up. it sounds like the vietnam war. we hear one story from the generals and another from the troops. >> well, that's one way of looking at it. the other way is there are a whole bunch of allegations aired. and are now out there in the media that we actually don't know if they're true. i reported all of this on sunday that he had huge problems that the white house was concerned about him, that capitol hill was concerned and allegations taken to tester. the reason i didn't write them i still don't know if they're true. i've been making calls. >> are they coming from inside the white house staff or where are they coming from? >> chris, i don't know because i haven't spoken to one of the people who made the allegations. i'm talking to people on the white house staff who have worked with him. they're not echoing these

allegations. and you know, so it's very. >> was there an organization -- we all know there are certain organizations left and right who promote bad steers about people and gin up commentaries by people. is there any evidence of an organized campaign against the doctor? >> again, i haven't seen the evidence of an organized campaign behind this. there's clearly a campaign against him. i don't know one way or the other whether they're true or false. as a reporter, it makes me very uncomfortable when i see allegations i cannot verify. as far as i can see from what these people are saying on tv, they haven't fully verified either. tester admitted he's not sure about the veracity of them. this is not that clear-cut to me at all. what is clear-cut is that this was a guy who was completely unvetted who had no relevant experience to run the second largest agency in the federal government, that the president

tweeted out on an impulse over the objections of his chief of staff. that's the clear-cut part of this story. the rest we need more reporting to find out. >> and the white house line is -- i've been hearing an the same thing hallie has been hearing. this goes back to kind of a rival professional rival, another doctor who wanted to be promoted and instead ronny jackson got promoted. so i've heard that. >> one hell of a propagandist. this guy gets 23 people to speak his case to the hill. >> that's the problem. like john said, we're not sure if we can corroborate that. the white house is saying these are people who don't like you. they're beak saying if anybody is going up for a high profile job, there are people who won't like. >> you the senators and congress people are going to be vetting him finally. can they just say i hear that and throw out something that got through the pipeline without saying there is a staff member in the white house who says this? >> yeah, they can. but i think that they don't want to do that.

i think they honestly want to look into this to find out if this is true. this guy's nay has been dragged through the mud at this point. i don't see how he can overcome some of that. >> tester is -- hallie, your last question -- hallie jackson, he's been out there talking about admiral jackson pretty tough. it's pretty tough. >> yeah. >> he either believes this or he's been irresponsible. he talks like he believes it. >> i don't know if i can assess that part of but i'll tell you senator tester has not been shy starting roughly 24 hours ago whether he went on npr and unleashed a blistering set of accusations against ronny jackson. to that point, we hadn't had the specificity or on the record discussion from a member of congress, from a lawmaker, particularly one on this committee what these accusations were. i spoke with senator tester for a story on the "today" show this morning. he did the interview with chuck

last hour. to jonathan swan's point earlier, what tester is being very careful what he's saying. when asked about the charges, he's saying this is what i've heard. this is what i've heard from the people that have come forward. again, i do think what you're seeing on the hill, senator rand paul saying is so far it sounds like gossip. lawmaker who's say they do have cause for concern do say they want to make sure the allegations are investigated before some of them jump to any kind of conclusion related to ronny jackson. >> these are amazing it accusations. >> can i bring this back to veterans? we interviewed a bunk here in washington. we've spoken with veterans groups and others. let me point out the broader picture here. which is as one veterans group put it to me earlier, a group full disclosure allies more with progressive leading causes and opposes jackson's nomination before the accusations made the point it's not the accusations,

it's concerns that is relate to his experience overall run agagency that this is this huge, running the second biggest federal agency basically. i think that is a broader context piece here of the the resume that jackson has to step into this role. >> the trouble with that is, it frees people from having to back up what they've claimed. and these charges are serious. the guy is a drunk on the job or he's not. you can't throw charges around unless you know it's true. this guy career will be ruined now. to go around and say it's only about policy and the executive responsibilities to run this agency eludes the fact that can somebody ought to be held responsible, somebody has fed all this stuff to people like senator tester. and the question is, is it true. i think that's the job of congress to figure out because the presidents haven't done a good job of checking this guy out. i hope congress does a better job.

thank you so much, hallie, leigh anne, and jonathan. a top member of trump's inner circle is caught admitting when he was in congress, he only met with lobbyist who's gave him money, admitting pay to play as a practice. this guy sounds like a swamp fox. we'll talk to senator elizabeth warren about this charge next. breaking news out of the russia investigation. the west reporting rudy guiliani met with bob mueller yesterday to negotiate a possible interview with the president. i would call it interrogation. he's also pressing for answers when the investigation is going to end. we'll get to that tonight. republicans won that special house election last night in deep red arizona in a deep red district. but the race was closer than anyone expected. that's giving democrats much more hope they can win big in november and win the house. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. this is "hardball" where the action is.

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donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> well, that was then candidate donald trump during the 2016 presidential campaign calling for a complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. today, the trump administration had a chance to defend the president's travel ban in court as nbc's pete williams reports, the consecutive tuv majority on the court seemed to agree that trump has the right to restrict travel from certain countries in the name of national security. u.s. solicitor general know francisco argued that the administration's latest travel ban was policemened after a thorough review of high risk countries not effective in fighting terrorism. francisco also said the policy is not a muslim ban arguing it only impacts a small number of

the world's muslim majority countries. the court will decide the case by late june. we'll be right back. whether it's a big thing, small thing, or something unexpected, pnc will be right there when you need us. because when it comes to your finances, if you focus on today, tomorrow has a way of working itself out. theseare heading back home.y oil if you focus on today, thanks to dawn, rescue workers only trust dawn, because it's tough on grease yet gentle. i am home, i am home, i am home

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now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. welcome back to "hardball." donald trump won the 2016 election on a promise to drain the swamp to reform a corrupt washington he said was rigged against the little guy. >> you're tired of a government that works only for wall street and the special interests. >> when the powerful can get away with anything because they have the money and the connections to rig the system, then people lose confidence in our laws and confidence in their futures. >> there is nothing the political establishment will not do, no lie that they won't tell to hold their prestige and power at your expense. and that's what's been

happening. >> promises, promises. trump's administration has been littered with examples can of just the opposite, recently epa administrator scott pruitt has come under intense criticism for ethical lapses including reports he rented an apartment from the wife i've lobbyist. today we learned what mick mulvaney tells bankers behind closed doors. according to a transcript, he told the annual conference of the american bankers association "we had a hierarchy in my office in congress. if you were a lobbyist who never gave us money, i didn't talk to you. if you were a lobbyist who gave us money, i might talk to you. if you came from back home and sat in my lobby i would talk to you without exception regardless of the contributions." his remarks first reported by "the new york times." joining us is senator elizabeth warren that helped create agency mulvaney usually runs.

people aren't usually so blunt about pay to play. >> let's be clear. people are usually in a world where they try to hide corruption. this is now a guy who is so corrupt, it's so thoroughly pervadeses everything he does and thinks about, he's willing to say in front of 1300 people that those who don't pay me get one kind of treatment and those who pay me i actually listen to and maybe will do work on their behalf. >> i have a sense if he was working for obama right now, on these issues he was pretty close to god, he would have bumped him out of the cabinet for the statement. >> gone. >> what does it tell you he's able to talk like this knowing his boss, the president of the united states will not mind him saying i'm running a pay to play operation it? >> it means most corrupt administration ever. the fact that mick mulvaney could stand up. >> worse than grant? >> exactly the fact that mick mulvaney would stand up and say

that and what is in fact a public place. they knew the press was there and he would say it and figure why not because that's the kind of administration he's in. i got to tell you, we've got to keep calling these guys out. you can't sit back and say what are you going to do. you got to call them out on testimony every single time and remind everybody this is what elections are about come november. >> what can you do about pruitt, the so-called epa director? he's not a director in any sense. he works for the industry. he drives around like near row in his chariot, first class everything. he's got staff members making more than senators. what is going on with this guy? he just gets away with it. >> look, the two of them are there, mull vapeny, this is like a pair of them we've got started here. because they see themselves as not working for the public. they see themselves as working for those who contribute either to their own campaigns, their own pockets or to their party.

and that can't be how we run government. >> talk about cronyism. we've talked about nepotism. they run the operation like the roman negatives. jared doing prison reform today. are you kidding? he's also a middle east expert. that is the definition of cronyism. talk about this new doc holiday. he has a reputation for being drunk. how did he get away with this? how has this been going on? apparently dealing out percocet to people, security people he wants to help out. he wrecked a government vehicle while drunk. >> look, i don't know why it didn't come out before. this is the par i do know. this is what vetting is about before you make a public statement about somebody who is going to get a nomination. >> talk about vetting, he's the president's doctor. and he's got a reputation for being drunk on the job and the president doesn't smell, it doesn't know it? it's either true or it isn't. >> well, but more to the point, this is how the president thinks

he runs government. he takes a liking to somebody. he names him. right? he decides he doesn't like somebody, fires them. >> he denied wrecking the car. >> oh. >> he's denying ever drinking on the job. >> i want to say on this. pause for a minute on this one. i get it, i'm glad john test ser looking into it. >> tester is tough. >> he has been. i feel better knows he's in there. if we're going to talk about the veterans administration, to me this is a big policy issue. the real question is the republicans keep trying to get all the little slippery pieces in to privatize the va. all three of my older brothers are veterans. they all served. and i have firsthand experience on how important the veterans administration is to our veterans and how important it is to keep it part of government, not to privatize it. and so for me, what's going to keep driving around there is i want to hear a commitment from whoever's running the veterans

administration that they plan to make that place whole and strong and not to privatize the services. >> let's talk about something else that's part of your broadening portfolio. armed services now? >> yeah. >> that's a big assignment. what do you make of -- i keep asking all our guests give me your optimistic rosy scenario for any kind of deal with north korea and your worst case scenario of what might come out of this meeting with the president and kim jong-un. >> can i make this a little bit more complicated? >> get to the rosy one. >> the rosest. i'll start with the rosest. the rosest is we stand by our deal in iran having talked iran off the nuclear ledge and we have very aggressive investigation inspection on a regular basis with iran so that iran, bad actor iran, but better to be a bad actor without nuclear weapons than a bad actor with nuclear weapons that's our model. get north korea to the same kind of place where you do the same kind of aggressive inspections that they are off the nuclear

cliff. they still may be a bad actor. >> will containment? >> where we ought to be aiming is denuclearization. >> destroy the weapons they have. >> you've got to get the weapons out of there. they pose a threat not just to the region, they pose a threat to the united states. >> is that realistic. >> and to the world. >> can any president do that? president obama couldn't do it. george w couldn't do it. clinton couldn't do it. we've been trying since the '90s, remember the clintons tried to give them coal so they wouldn't go nuclear. >> the part that keeps changing. you asked me for my optimistic scenario is the allies. we were never going to be able to do this on our own. we didn't do iran on our own. we didn't saddle up and ride in on a horse. >> will she help us? >> that's the question. has she looked over the border and said wait a minute, we've got a guy liking that with nuclear weapons right on our border? we need to rethink this.

when that happens, then we may be able to get something more aggressive done. >> it's good to have you on. thanks for coming over. >> thank you. up next, the mueller investigation. the west is reporting that rudy giuliani met with bob mueller yesterday to negotiate a possible interview with president trump. and to press for answers on when the investigation would be over. it comes as president trump keeps saying he's innocent but then again, why is he acting the way he is acting? good question. this is "hardball" where the action is. plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. possible interview with don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur.

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>> welcome back to "hardball." after the fbi raid on michael cohen this month appeared to derail the prospect the president would undergo questioning by the special counsel, there are signs late today it could still happen. the meeting between mueller and trump. "the washington post" is now reporting trump's new attorney, former new york mayor rudy guiliani met with robert mueller on tuesday to reopen negotiations for a presidential interview. the post reports giuliani conveyed the ongoing substance of trump and his advisers to an interview with federal investigators but did not rule out the possibility. resistance rather. in that meeting, giuliani pressed mueller for clarity when the probe is expected to end. of this comes after giuliani said last week that he would try to bring the probe to a speedy conclusion. as he told the "new york post," i don't think it's going to take more than a week or two to get resolution. there's almost there. i'm going to ask mueller what do

you need to wrap it up? joining me is robert costa who co-wrote that report in the "post." where is the question? why do they have to beg giuliani or have giuliani beg mueller to set the standards for this interview? bill clinton was keel hauled by ken starr, told to appear before a grand jury and had to. why is there negotiation here at all? why doesn't mueller tell him it, i want you in, you're under oath and better not lie. >> it's a legal dance at there point. this has been going on for weeks if not months. mueller has been talking to trump's legal team about how he needs to find out about the president's intent on key decisions. he's also told trump's legal team he is not a criminal target at this point. he's only a subject. and so he wants to have an interview, not have to subpoena him to come before the grand jury. of course, mueller still has that card in his back pocket if

he wants to use it. at this point, they're having this legal dance trying to see if they can come to an agreement. >> why would mueller agree to shorten his investigation which giuliani is suggesting here because trump agrees to testify? >> it's not about the shortening the whole investigation. you have to think about the mueller probe as a two-track investigation. there's the russia collusion aspect of the investigation, then there's president trump's conduct. two separate areas of the probe. mueller wants to wrap up the presidential conduct report. that part of the investigation sooner rather than later. hopefully by the summer because he doesn't want it to come out before the midterm elections. that's why he wants the interview as soon as possible. >> what about the candidate trump's behavior and possible collusion with the russians? whether he is that going to be the subject of an investigation, rather an interview with the president? >> it's more narrow with the president's conduct as you can imagine. the sprawling russia collusion,

potential collusion part of this investigation keeps moving in different directions. you have the manafort, rick gates aspects, those indictments. you have president trump's campaign operatives just interviewed who may not have any kind of legal action being taken against them yet. they're continuing to process across a wade array of fronts, financial, political, different things that happened. wikileaks, roger stone, all these different aspects of the investigation that have come up could take months if not more than a year. mueller is trying to finish one part before he finishes another. >> barry grissom, former federal prosecutor, it's hard for me to follow this. it seems to me that the president's under investigation for all of his behavior going way back into his business career, can anything to do with russia, anything he did in the transition and as president. why would they be suggesting that this interview is only going to be about the transition and the presidency when they're leaving open the whole question of collusion. >> when will they get around to

asking him about that under oath? >> i would imagine at some point in time that will be asked. but for the purposes of right now, we have a unique situation. we have a president who is being interviewed unlike just your normal every day citizen. i think the court is going to give deference just like if you remember when clinton testified there was a defined period of time within which they could ask questions concerning his legal issues. that's what's going to be happening here i think, as well. it seems to me the real issue the president has is one of credibility. you want to be honest and forthright particularly talking to a federal prosecutor. and if you lose credibility which is so important in any legal proceeding but particularly one of a criminal nature, that can backfire on you. if you go in to offer a proffer as an example and the investigator just does not believe you because you have been less than candid before on any number of things, that can cause you a lot of difficulty. >> well, if i were working for mueller, i'd go in there and ask him to back up under the oath

all the stuff he said in public. you're mittaling as we say in politics, forcing him to choose between what he said before and the truth. if he said what he said before which is not the truth, he's perjuring himself. why would he ever go into that room? >> absolutely. i think you know, if when you represent someone in a criminal matter, you want them to keep their mouth shut and don't want them going out making a record that will come back to haunt them. something as simple as if mr. mueller were to ask, did you spend the night in russia. >> yeah. >> we know he offer that up to jim comey unsolicited that he wasn't there. we've now discovered that in fact he was there. those things add up to credibility. >> overnight. tom roberts said he was with him. he was basically covering that event out there, the miss universe. back to robert. lou is trump going to handle this? why would he knowing he's trump,

want to go into a room where he says what he says publicly, he's perjuring himself. >> we report tonight the president publicly was saying he wanted to sit for an interview for months, almost having a bragging tone. now he's backed away privately our reporting tells us. he's wary of doing an interview. so are his lawyers. giuliani is now functioning in the lead role. think about that, giuliani in the room on tuesday with mueller in southwest washington. he's making it clear to the special counsel face-to-face with bob mueller and saying we're not going to probably go through with this interview. we're open to the possibility. there are a lot of the concerns we have. if you're searching for the intent we're told from some of our sources they think if mueller is searching for intent, there's a big risk to put the president in a chair. they're now negotiating will it be a written interview? is he going to sit in the chair across from mueller. >> well, i think he's got to answer a simple question as

barry asked. how many nights did you spend in moscow, yes or no. in a court filing in california in a lawsuit brought by stormy daniels mike willing cohen said "based upon the advice of counsel i will assert my fifth amendment rights in connection with all proceedings in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the fbi and u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york." barry, what's he goss got to worry about in terms of perjury there, mike cohen. >> well, if we're talking about mr. cohen, he did the appropriate thing following the advice of his lawyer not to say anything to incriminate himself. the -- we talked about earlier the, mr. mueller now has all the information which going through a process and being reviewed. at some point he'll have all the information that mr. cohen put together over all these many years with the president. and i think that changes the entire dynamic from the president's perspective of as

the other gentleman said a few moments ago almost in a braggadocios way coming in to testify or speak with mr. mueller. i think by going into mr. cohen's office and getting his information, that has completely changed the dynamic of this game. >> it looks to me again tonight the president is up to his elbows in alligators. thank you so much robert and barry. republicans won a special election last night in arizona but shouldn't be popping the champagne bottles about the race was much closer than expected. that's a bad sign for november. you're watching "hardball." dav. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. that's it? everybody two seconds! "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job.

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and i am a senior public safety my namspecialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. >> welcome back to "hardball." republicans notched a victory in a special election in arizona last night but it's democrat lose may have reason to celebrate. republican debdy lesko edged out a victory in the 8th district defeating her democratic opponent by just over five points. that's good for republicans. the problem, president trump won that same zraikt district by 21

fuentes four times as much in 2016. it's so reliably red there wasn't a democrat on the ballot in the last two the congressional elections out there. the cook political report dave wasserman summed it up, there are 147 gop held house seats right now, less republican than the arizona 8. it's time to start rethinking how many of those are truly safe in november. in fact "the new york times" reports republicans have lost support in every special election since trump took office including the ones they won. president trump put a good face on results congratulating lesko on twitter saying debbie will do a great job. press is so silent. but president trump may have something bigger to worry about this fall. that's next with the "hardball" roundtable. isn't top of mind. that's because they have a shield annuity from brighthouse financial, which allows them to take advantage of growth opportunities in up markets, while maintaining a level of protection in down markets.

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♪ come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. ♪ welcome back to "hardball." republicans held a deep red congressional seat in arizona last night but by a slim margin it may not be keeping control of the house this fall that worries trump the most. jonathan swan reports that trump's real election nightmare would be losing the senate writing democratic dominance at the capitol would trap the white houses in probes and hearings. just as he embarks and his re-election. ruth marcus, "washington post," john feehery is a republican

strategist, a i shea ras co, npr. ruth, you start off this cake bake here. it seems to me that we keep looking for new tea leaves to tell us which way it's going. i stick to my prospect that if the democrats win 30 or 40 seat and win the house, the senate looks tricky but i still think enough to impeach if the house wants to do it next year. enough votes to do it. >> and then what is the answer to the impeachment question. >> i can't see that far. >> i think the senate is everything has to go right for the democrats in an arena where everything is stacked against them because they have so many people up in trump, in states that trump won, ten incumbents up. the house i think democrats have very good prospect of winning that dave cook number. this remarkable number of house seats that are actually less republican than this one that was so close last night. that should put fear in the heart of every republican

lawmaker. >> dave wasserman of the cook report. >> sorry. >> his title is there it is. >> charlie cook, dave wasserman, got them both. >> what do you think? do you think you guys hold the senate based upon the latest results. >> there are no point spreads. you don't get a point spread victory income political races. you just have to win the election. >> there's no moral victories. >> no, the republicans won. elections are based on the map, which ruth was talking about with the senate, money, which is basically tied, democrats have raised a lot of money but it's spread over a lot more candidates and the message. harry reid put it up plainly. impeachment is not a good message for the democrats. i think it's a huge mistake for them. >> pelosi is trying to put that down. >> i think you're right. trying to make this -- in liberal districts, progressive districts, african-american districts where the people are progressive, they love this and will come out and vote. >> the senate will be very difficult for the democrats but

when you look at what may be going against the republicans, part of what's not helping is all these scandals coming out of the trump administration when you have all these issues when you're talking about scott pruitt at the epa and this new nomination for ronny jackson, all these things coming out, that's taking up all the air time right now, that and issues about russia, investigation. so when you talk about messaging, what messages are the republicans getting across right now. >> that's a good point because if you talk about the tax cuts, it's being drowned out. >> the who is talking about that. >> that's right. the polling on that, they've gone down in popularity. people are talking about all the other nonsense. >> they were very popular about two months ago. if you look at the polls they've sunk down. corporations have to get on their butts and start talking what they'll do with benefits and wages. >> go ahead. >> if this is a referendum on who is governing well, when you have all these scandals and all

these things going on with the trump administration, can the republicans make that argument or can they get back on track to make the argument we deserve to be in here, we deserve to be in power because we're getting things done. >> ayesha makes a good point. but the thing that's a little bit puzzling for people who try to prognosticate this many months out which we can't stop ourselves from doing is that even as these special elections have been really, if the democrats haven't won them and i take your point it doesn't matter how much you win by, but we're looking at them as tea leaves even as democrats have overperformed in a lot of races the generic ballot is tightening. >> explain that generic balloting for people that aren't buffs. >> so sort of overall, would you like to see democrats in congress or republicans in congress. if voters out there are getting fed up with the governing they see from the trump administration, it's not showing up there. >> you know what i think, there's a complete disconnect weave what the house and the

politicians on the hill want and 1946, it was all about let's have another probe and hearing and harry true man got elected in '48. sometimes the republicans blew it. if the democrats get in next year and all they do is hold impeachment hearings, trump could get re-elected. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." we can't stay here! why? flat toilet paper! i'll never get clean! way ahead of you. charmin ultra strong.

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say. the first one was wendy vitter, the wife of senator david vitter up for a district judgeship in louisiana. the other up for federal appeals judgeship, general counsel to the governor of texas. they should look back at the transcript of chief justice john roberts. he was willing to say that brown was correctly decided. >> forward thinker. jonathan. >> i worked for the republican leadership in 1998 when we decided we would go all in on our em pixment message with bill clinton. it doesn't work. don't try it. talk about the economy if you want to have any impact. >> why don't they pass a simple resolution because of monica of censure? >> they should have. gephardt and tom delay decided they didn't want that to happen because they wanted il peachment to be the real measure against the guy. npr is reporting today even as the supreme court is debating

president trump's travel ban, immigration from muslims is down in the u.s. there's cato analysts who found that 9, or that immigration from muslim refugees is down 91% monthly from last year and down 26% from muslim majority countries. >> thank you ruth, john, ayesha. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." gs. because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people. and is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who've have had no prior treatment with 12 weeks. certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. before starting harvoni, your doctor will test to see if you've ever had hepatitis b, which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after harvoni treatment.

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trump watch, wednesday april 25th, 2018. general frances marion was one of the heros of the american revolution. known as the swamp fox, a master of guerrilla warfare. today we have another swamp fox in the form of south carolina's mick mulvaney, director of the omb, he moon litz running is the consumer financial protection agency. he has earned the name sbamp fox from admission that has a member of congress from south carolina, he follow aid rule, he would let people in to see him who had given him campaign money and refused to those who didn't. here's the direct quote. if you were a lobbyist who never gave us money, i didn't talk to you. if you were a lobbyist who gave us money, he might talk to you. i've never heard it said so clearly is the definition of the swamp that donald trump ran against. a government with your must pay to play. what kind of message is mick mulvaney sending to other people in the administration? is he saying this is how you drain the swamp or sesaying this

is how you get money and how to get around in a swamp. i would say the second. his admission you have to pay someone like him to be heard is the very definition of the swamp. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. breaking news on multiple fronts tonight including damaging new allegations really damaging new allegations against white house doctor the president picked to run the va, what happened with the president's muslim ban before the supreme court today and michael cohen says officially for the record, he will plead the fifth in the stormy daniels case. we begin with the big news from the "washington post." with the report just about lawyer old that rudy giuliani, the president's new personal lawyer met yesterday with special counsel robert mueller in order to reopen negotiations for a presidential interview. according to three people familiar with