mission for moscow. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. tonight we're learning new details about that infamous meeting in june of 2016 between members of the trump campaign and the russians at trump tower. that meeting brought together three top officials from the trump campaign -- donald trump jr., paul manafort, and jared kushner, with an ann entourage of russians and their associates. now nbc news is reporting that a key figure in that meeting, russian lawyer natalia

veselnitskaya, has a closer relationship with a top russian official than was previously known. new e-mails obtained by nbc news from a russian exile suggests she's been in league with the prosecutor general of russia since at least 2014 when she worked with him to impede a civil lawsuit filed against a russian company. up until now she's maintained she's just a private attorney, telling the senate judiciary committee, i operated independently of any governmental bodies. but when confronted with those e-mails in an interview with nbc's richard engel, she described herself as an informant, in other words a spy. she's working for the kremlin. here is how engel pressed her about the nature of her kremlin connections. >> the only reason i'm asking these questions is because of the contact that you've had the most senior people who are now in our government.

>> you said your relationship with the prosecutor general is what? >> i'm a spy. anyway, in that interview, veselnitskaya further acknowledged that since 2013, i have been actively communicating with the office of the russian prosecutor general. this is all significant because the so-called dirt on hillary clinton which was promised to the trump campaign in that meeting was said to come from the top prosecutor in russia. she promised to deliver dirt about hillary clinton to the trump people, including family members if they will respond by softening the economic sanctions against moscow. we're talking real collusion here. as an intermediate road to donald trump jr. in early june of 2016, the crown prosecutor of russia offered to provide the trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate hillary. trump junior famously replied,

if that's what you say, i love it. that's donald junior speaking for his father. the reported subject of the meeting which took place six days after that exchange, was about u.s. sanctions relief to russia. however, the participants have downplayed the significance of the meeting ever since. joining me now are david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones. jim wine banks, a former watergate prosecutor. paul butler, former u.s. attorney. ken ken dilanian. this is hot stuff. i mean this pretending she was an intermediary, sort of i bring you guys together, i'm a kuchcu. it turns out she's working for the kremlin and delivering promised dirt on hillary in exchange for us easing the economic sanctions. how does this fit into the context of collusion between trump and the russians? >> it's always been a fiction that she was a private attorney. in the book i did with mike

isikoff, we note she used to tell people she had fsb connections. fsb is the security service of moscow. she was -- i mean this all began because basically the prosecutor general, the attorney general of russia sent a message to trump's business partner in miss universe, an oligarch, to trump's campaign -- actually to his son that russia wants to help you. we have a secret plan to help you. we're going to give you dirt on hillary. and the real significance here is that donald trump jr., jared kushner, and paul manafort said, bring it on. they signaled they were willing to conspire with a secret moscow plan to do dirt on hillary, and it was all through this woman. she was working hand in glove with the kremlin, with the top judicial figure in the kremlin. and so there's not a -- you know, for trump and others to say there's nothing to this meeting, there's a lot to this meeting. and we're still learning more

about it even though the house intelligence is shut down. >> paul, in the republicans had this on hillary clinton, that she met with the russians from moscow to get dirt on donald trump in exchange for lessening our economic sanctions against moscow, they'd be hanging her by her ankles right now in times square. i'm being metaphorical here, but they would be going wild. >> absolutely. so we've always known that this meeting is unethical and un-american. now that we know -- now we know it was also a crime. so we have a quid pro quo. we have the trump campaign operatives, the big guns, looking for dirt on hillary. now we know this russian lawyer wasn't just a lawyer. she was a snitch and an agent of the russian government. she's like what you want? >> i want to give this to you and jill. i'm learning here the law. i understand if you're involved with assisting a conspiracy, you're a conspirator.

>> that's right. >> the russians had conspired to throw our elections away from hillary and to the other guy, in this case trump. if you assist in that conspiracy by going to a meeting, trying to set down some sort of ground rules for exchanging getting dirt, promising to lift sanctions, that looks to me like assisting the conspiracy. >> yeah. and here's the thing, chris. all you have to do is try. so we already know don junior, kushner, and manafort were trying really hard to get dirt. so, again, i think that mueller had his predicate case. what's important about this is mueller's super big decision. he thinks, okay, i have a lot of evidence against kushner, trump junior, and some evidence against the president. do i bring the case? now that we know it wasn't just talk about collusion. this is actually collusion. that means that he brings the case. >> let's get back to jill on this. then i'll get to ken. jill, what do you make of the crime here? it seems to me we're looking for collusion and we see the outlines of it. a quid pro quo meeting, an actual being put together by the

presidential candidate's son, his brother-in-law he brings into it. he brings in the campaign chairman. he brought the best dogs he could bring to that meeting to receive the dirt. and then his father, who happens to be the candidate, donald trump, later on spins the whole thing like all they were doing was talking about, oh, adopting russian kids. i mean give me a break. it looked to me -- it looks like a big conspiracy with the republican candidate for president very much involved. your thoughts. >> chris, you're completely right. first of all, there was always the crime of accepting something of value from a foreigner, which is a violation of our campaign laws. that always existed no matter what you thought. but anybody who didn't think that don junior told his father immediately, i've been offered dirt on hillary. the russians want to help us defeat her. they want to help you win. now you have the republicans

issuing a report today that challenges that conclusion of the entire community of our intelligence officers that says that the russians wanted to help defeat hillary and help donald to win. they've challenged that. this is proof that they were there trying to help donald trump become president of the united states. it shows collusion. it shows a violation of the campaign laws. it was always obvious that she was there as a representative of the government, and now she's been caught with her own e-mails. and the proof is there. i can't wait to see richard engel's full interview of her. that will be a very exciting thing to watch. >> well, we're going to see a lot more on rachel's show tonight at 9:00. after republicans in the house intelligence committee today released a one-sided report basically concluding the russian investigation, democrats issued a minority report detailing several leads that the republicans refused to explore. one of those leads raises new

questions about whether donald trump was aware of that trump tower meeting, something he's publicly denied. two days before that june meeting in trump tower, donald trump jr. reportedly had two calls from the son of a russian oligarch who was arranging the logistics for the meeting. according to house democrats, quote, his phone records also show a blocked number at 4:27 p.m. that day between the two calls. trump jr. claimed he did not know who was associated with that blocked number. the democratic report also notes that corey lewandowski -- it aappears donald trump senior may have been in touch with his son at the very time he was planning to meet with the russians. however house democrats note the majority was unwilling to pursue the matter. ken dilanian, let's talk about this. the lack of appetite for the republicans on the house intelligence committee for digging up the truth is amazing. this paul revere character, nunes, who runs down to the white house to get the talking points basically and then delivers the talking points back to the west wing, and now he has his whole troop of followers

saying, case closed. and then this woman, veselnitskaya, comes out and says, well, wait a minute. yeah, i was an informant for moscow, and i was setting up that meeting. and, yes, it was about exchanging information like dirt on hillary for lessening the sanctions. it seems to me they're getting right near the target zone, proving collusion and maybe the president's personal involvement beforehand as well as afterwards. an accomplice before the fact, not just afterwards and try to spin it away. and they say we're not interested. >> the incuriosity is incredible. i mean this blocked number is a perfect example of how very valid leads were not followed by the republicans. >> why didn't they ask if he was talking to daddy. >> the democrats were pushing, get the phone records. they wouldn't do it. isn't it obvious to all of us that donald trump would have been read in on this meeting? his son, his senior aides are going to have a meeting with russians. he didn't know about it? i'm going to say one thing about the dirt. it's more complicated than we've

been talking about here. there is no evidence that any meaningful dirt was handed over. >> they were promising it, though. >> they were promising it. but our reporting tells us that mueller does not view this meeting as significant evidence of collusion. >> let me go to david corn for another opinion. david, how important do you believe it is that mueller believes that trump knew before this meeting that donald trump himself knew about the meeting, not just afterwards when he tried to cover it up? where is he on that? do you know? where are you on that? >> i don't know where mueller is, but the thing is mueller's not the arbitrator here. he has one job, to prosecute crimes. not everything that's wrong is a crime. and if donald trump was in on this, it makes everything worse. why does it make everything worse? because he and his crew, throughout the whole summer and fall of 2016, kept saying that reports about russia attacking the election were nothing but hoaxes. they had evidence. they knew more than anyone else on this panel right now that the

russians were trying to rig the election or do what they can to help donald trump, yet they kept denying this was happening. by doing that, whether it was collusion or not, they were aiding and abetting the russian attack on the election by providing cover for them. whether that's a crime, paul and others can talk to that. but it's basically protecting an act of warfare, and that's betrayal. >> i think you're right. let's go back to jill on that from the watergate days. nixon, when he had haldeman call over to the cia and say get the fbi off this case, say it has something to do with the bay of pigs, don't get involved, excuse me me. it didn't work. nixon still was kicked out of office. so failing in the mission doesn't make you innocent. your thoughts. >> it definitely doesn't. trying is enough. they clearly were ready to accept help from the russians, and i think that it's important to keep in mind, to follow up on something david said, that the congress has a very different

role than the prosecutor. the prosecutor has to look at who has violated existing laws. congress should be looking at what laws do we need to pass to protect us from future interference in our elections. and they haven't done that. they have not had a serious investigation of what even happened. they are not willing to, as has been pointed out, look at who made the phone call. if there's nothing to hide, why wouldn't they look at that? they need to, instead of saying there's no collusion, which is music to donald trump's ears, they should have said, we haven't done a full investigation, so we don't know whether there's any collusion or not because they can't possibly draw that conclusion without having had all the witnesses. they didn't have flynn. they didn't have manafort. they didn't have papadopoulos. they didn't have gates. and they didn't look at this phone number and many other things. >> okay. >> so they can't seriously say, to use watergate language, at this point in time, they could say they haven't found

collusion. but at this point in time is because they haven't looked for it. they didn't want to find it, and they haven't. >> let's talk politics for a second. i'm going to go back to if this was on the other shoe. 11 days before the election, comey said we've got to go through anthony weiner's laptop, you know, because there might be something in there that's classified that accidentally huma abedin put on that laptop. instead of having that information to follow up on, forget that. instead of that, he had information that hillary clinton had met with the russians to get dirt on donald trump. >> yeah. >> i'm sorry. that would be a game-changer ten times in the other direction. >> yeah. >> trump would have been gone. >> exactly. and he would have -- >> if you want to get tough on comey, if comey had found out about this instead of us finding out because of richard engel about the deal and who was putting this little cupid operation together, you know, putting them together between trump and the russians, imagine that in the hands of a reporter

a week and a half before the presidential election. trump would have died. >> and who trump has to worry about in the hands of is robert mueller. and guess what? mueller already knows. so the house republicans may have been too wimpy to subpoena the telephone records. we should safely assume that mueller has those. and, again, there's another lawyer term called consciousness of guilt, which means if this meeting was so innocent, why did hope hicks and president trump on air force one gin up this false narrative about what happened at the meeting? >> russian adoption agency. i'm just going to speak my political sense. then you get the last word and ken. not that i'm one of them, but i know a lot of them. the reagan democrats, these people that went for trump, they would have gone the other way 180 if they found he was dealing with moscow. just as simple as that. if they had gotten the word in time for their election decision, instead of voting i don't really like hillary, i guess i like trump, it would have gone the other way. >> i could not agree more, and it's a travesty that we knew all

about the investigation into hillary clinton's e-mails but we knew nothing about this other fbi investigation into potential collusion with russia. that's something that james comey and the obama administration officials will have to answer for in history. >> they were sitting there looking at anthony weiner's laptop. anyway, thank you, david corn. i'm being sarcastic because i love to be that. jill wine-banks, thank you. the echos keep coming at us and it's not looking too hard to find them. david corn, thank you. your book is fabulous. russian roulette. and ken dilanian, for keeping us honest here at nbc news on this one. coming up the house intelligence committee led by trump toady, devin nunes. why should anyone believe their so-called report released today that there wasn't any collusion? that was their conclusion. there's one person hailing that

report. guess what, donald trump loves it. he loves what the republicans covered up. now he's calling for an end to the investigation by the democrats and mueller. plus a major breakthrough today between the koreas as the leaders of north and south korea vow to end their war and denuclearize the korean peninsula. it's a big development ahead of trump's summit with kim jong-un. why do so. peop many people in trump's orbit find themselves in legal, professional, and personal trouble? finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. this is "hardball," where the action is. is parents over was enlightening. ♪ you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good. -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents.

but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. president trump said today he may travel to israel next month for the opening of the u.s. embassy there in jerusalem. trump made the announcement while standing next to german chancellor angela merkel, one of the world leaders opposed to moving the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. trump declined to say who else would attend the embassy opening although his son-in-law jared

kushner and daughter ivanka are also expected at the event. the embassy is set to open on may 14th. we'll be right back. so, what's new? we just switched to geico and got more. more? they've been saving folks money for over 75 years. a company you can trust. geico even helped us with homeowners insurance. more sounds great. gotta love more... right, honey? yeah!

geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more.

welcome back to "hardball." when the house intelligence committee was created back in 1977, the speaker of the house then, tip o'neill, vowed it would be a non-partisan committee with nothing partisan about its deliberations. roughly 40 years later, that bipartisanship is shot. today republicans on the intel committee released their own report on the russia investigation, giving president trump the exoneration he's been clamoring for. >> but the report was very powerful, very strong. there was no collusion between the trump campaign and the russian people. as i've said many times before, i was very honored by the report. it was totally conclusive, strong, powerful. many things said that nobody knew about and said in a very

strong way. they were very forceful in saying that the clinton campaign actually did contribute to russia. so maybe somebody ought to look at that. >> the report from the republicans on the intel committee takes the intelligence community, the clinton campaign to task while ultimately determining there's no evidence of collusion whatsoever between the trump campaign and moscow. democrats responded of course. they accused republicans of engaging in a systematic attempt to muddy the waters and deflect attention away from the president. all 13 republican members of the committee signed off on the report while republican mike conaway has been the face -- the public face of the russia investigation, chairman devin nunes has been calling the shots from behind the scenes. nunes who has served as president trump's congressional toady poisoned the bipartisan nature of the committee when he took his midnight run down to the white house.

meanwhile, the senate intelligence committee continues its bipartisan investigation with no end in sight. i'm joined by u.s. congressman joaquin castro of texas, a democrat. also eli stokols, msnbc political analyst. congressman, there's some good members of the committee on the republican side. why are they going along with the toadyism of saying this investigation is over when we get all this new information coming in about moscow connections. why is peter king doing this? he's independent. why are they toadies? >> you make a great point, chris, that personally there are a lot of good people on there, on the other side of the aisle who are republicans, serious legislators. but i think that it's more comfortable for them to basically protect the president because this investigation was like a kindergarten investigation. it was a light once-over where witnesses were brought in. they gave us their version of events. the committee refused to issue any subpoenas to verify anything

they told us at all. and then they said, okay, great, guys. we're all done. wrote the report. and here we are. >> when you look over at your republican colleagues and you're all at one level politicians and you know how you have to get re-elected and all that. do they just giggle when -- i'm showing them by the way. i want everybody to pay attention. some of these people are in tough races and they should be. these are all the toadies, the cover-up artists. it's embarrassing. they come from new jersey and new york, they're not all from part of the red country. there's no excuse for this kind of behavior. they're saying case closed. what do you think of the argument case closed, just that? what do you make of it? they don't need any more information about a russian connection. it's over. >> it's basically a hear no evil, see no evil maneuver. really, chris, most of all, it's a disservice to the american people because the american people deserved a fair and thorough and honest investigation, and they didn't get it. >> let me flip this around. tip o'neill really did. the reason he started the

intelligence committee was he was tired of the cia giving him all this information. he didn't want to have it in his head, all this stuff going on around the world. you don't want to know it all. he p you it in the hands of a bipartisan committee so there could be some kind of check on what the intelligence agencies were doing. nancy pelosi, the other day, said if there's going to be impeachment, it's got to be bipartisan. they've got to work together. >> there have been some republicans, a few, who have used the word impeachment, saying if the president goes so far as to fire the special counsel, to meddle in the justice department, it could lead to impeachment. they're saying that word out loud, but those people are still outliers. as the congressman said, on the republican side, by and large what you have are people who look at the incentive structure politically and see more reason to just keep their heads down than there is reason to stand up for the constitution and the system of checks and balances. >> congressman, one argument could be made that because he gets a complete clean bill of

goods from the republicans, they say he's fine, and then when the democrats and mueller continue to investigate, he'll say, well, i've got to fire mueller now. this may be a pretext for firing mueller. >> yeah, i mean there's no question i think the president is looking for a reason to be able to get rid of bob mueller. and really i think anybody who would do a thorough and fair investigation -- and bob mueller certainly seems like he's doing that. but that's what the american people deserve. >> you've been watching this, and i want eli in on this. what do you think is the most fertile ground? we've been looking at a lot information about possible collusion, what looks like a quid pro quo meeting at trump tower with the family there and him covering up for it. and of course there's questions of obstruction. where do you see an impeachable offense most likely emerging? i want to ask the congressman first. he's on the committee. you're looking at all this stuff. >> i think probably obstruction of justice. that would probably be the strongest thing. there's the issues potentially of money laundering and collusion of course. but for a congress to act, probably obstruction of justice. >> eli, where do you see it?

>> i'm not on the committee. but talking to people around the president, what they're worried about more than anything else is the obstruction of justice case. they say, oh, it's probably a flimsy case. it's a ticky tack thing. he didn't know what he was doing. >> he didn't know he was firing comey. >> right. but that's the things they tell themselves. i think that is where the fear is among those defending the president and close to the president. >> would that be enough to move the middle in the congress -- obstruction? it would have to be collusion. what would it take to move the congress and impeach and convict? >> honestly right now, chris, i don't see it. remember, you've got to get a two-thirds vote of the senate. two-thirds vote of the senate. >> how about getting a majority in the house? >> you know -- >> if you take the house this november. >> then it's possible. i think that's possible. but, you know, you've still got to go get two-thirds of the senate, and that will still be a big mountain to climb. now, i am hopeful for some of these republicans that after they get past their midterm -- i'm sorry -- once they get past their primary elections, that

they're going to be more willing to buck president trump because right now rather than taking on the president, what we've seen -- and eli and i were talking about this -- rather than taking on the president, they decided to get out of the game. they decided to retire. so instead of taking him on, they're basically leaving. >> i think you're right except the guys on their way out the door. and the ones that are out the door, whether it's charlie dent or flake from arizona or it's corker or it's ryan costello, you can tell the guy's about to leave because he starts talking trash against this president. but it takes that. they've got to see the door before they tell the truth. thank you. up next, the leaders of north and south korea hold an historic summit. vowing to work toward denuclearization on the korean peninsula. it's a major breakthrough ahead of trump's meeting with kim jong-un. it really was something to see those guys. we'll show it again. for those who fought in the

korean war, they must be overwhelmed by what they're watching here because both sides fought very hard in that war. this is "hardball," where the action is. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. alright, i brought in high protein to help get us moving. ...and help you feel more strength and energy in just two weeks! i'll take that. -yeeeeeah! ensure high protein. with 16 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. ensure. always be you.

advil liqui-gels minis. breakthrough in pain relief. a mighty small pill with concentrated power that works at liquid speed. you'll ask... what pain? advil liqui-gels minis. that skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and customer service are critical to business success. the kind of skills, that work for you.

do you feel like it's your responsibility for this to eventually get settled between north and south korea? >> i think i have a responsibility. i think other presidents should have done it. i think the responsibility has fallen on the shoulders of the president of the united states,

and i think we have -- i think i have a responsibility to see if i can do it. and if i can't do it, it will be a very tough time for a lot of countries and a lot of people. >> welcome back to "hardball." president trump responded to the dramatic news from the korean peninsula earlier today when the leaders of north and south korea pledged to end the state of war between their two countries and work toward complete denuclearization. it was an historic moment with -- there it is -- powerful symbolism. for the first time since the korean war in the early '50s, the leader of north korea stepped over the border to enter the south. then the south's president stepped into the north. president trump said he was encouraged by today's events. this morning he tweeted, korean war to end. the united states and all of its great people should be very proud of what is now taking place in korea. this afternoon trump played coy on the question of whether he had spoken to kim jong-un yet, but he sounded an optimistic note about his upcoming meeting with the north korean leader.

let's watch and listen. >> you said that the relationship with north korea has been strong or one of the words you used. have you spoken with kim jong-un himself, or do you plan on speaking with him? >> i don't want to comment on that. >> do you plan on -- >> but we have a very good working relationship. we're setting up a meeting. things have changed very radically from a few months ago. you know the name calling and a lot of other things. we get a kick every once in a while out of the fact that i'll be watching people that fail so badly over the last 25 years explaining to me how to make a deal with north korea. i get a big, big kick out of that. but we are doing very well. i think that something very dramatic could happen. >> i'm joined by gordon chang, a columnist for "the daily beast," and shelby holliday. mr. chang, how does it look? >> i think looking pretty good. at least right now we have a

pathway to denuclearization. there's going to be a lot of bumps on this road because we've got to remember in 1992, north and south korea agreed to denuclearization of the peninsula. and less than two years after that, they almost went to war. that was the time of the agreed framework. we settled that. so, you know, kim has certainly got a playbook. it's not something we're going to like. but then again -- >> what's not to like him getting rid of his nukes? >> that's perfect, but we're not exactly sure that's what he's thinking right now. he's probably thinking he can get sanctions relief from either moon jae-in, the south korean president, or from president trump himself before he has to finally give up all his weapons. and that's going to be the issue. who goes first? denuclearization or sanctions relief? >> but couldn't we put a string on it and say the minute this doesn't -- the sanctions go back. they snap back the second you fail to meet your deadline here of getting rid of your nukes. can't we do it? >> we can do that, but trump has said -- and i think he's right -- that first of all north

korea has got to give up its weapons. then we can do all sorts of things, including diplomatic recognition, sanctions relief. >> you're betting on this guy who looks like rocket man. he actually acts like rocket man. i hate the stupid name. but he doesn't look like he's going to give up his number one claim to fame. he's got nuclear weapons. >> no, he doesn't want to. then again, let's remember this is not an issue of what kims wan wants to do. this is a question of whether trump will use the elements of american power to disarm kim. we can do that short of the use of force. so therefore it's a trump question more than a kim question. >> you know, shelby, trump is dancing on this thing. he's hot dogging it obviously. he can't even answer a straight question. they're asking him a good question. he keeps trying to dump it on w., dump it on obama. he can't avoid going ego nuts on this thing. but he is making it happen, it seems. >> he thinks he's making it happen. merkel is giving him some credit. he's very well aware of the fact

they were hurling threats at he each other on twitter and official statements and now he's become the biggest cheerleader. i think we focus a lot on president trump's negative tweets but he's also a great cheerleader on twitter when he wants to be. >> yesterday president trump implied it was his tough rhetoric toward north korea that caused kim jong-un's change in attitude. let's listen to that again. >> right. >> look, it was very, very nasty, you know, with little rocket man and with the buttons and, you know, my button's bigger than -- everybody said this guy is going to get us into nuclear war. let me tell you, the nuclear war would have happened if you had weak people. >> how do you distill serious policy making from the carnival barker language he uses? like he's got a striped suit on and he's waving a pole, like he's outside a tent trying to get people to come in for five bucks? that's the way he talks. what do you make of the policy of a little scare talk. does it work? the nixon approach.

>> i think the more important thing was the sanctions. trump really enforced sanctions. he went to the u.n. and tightened those as well. we have a lot of evidence that kim is running out of money. for instance, the south koreans say that north korea will run out of foreign exchange reserves by october. i don't think it's that dire, but nonetheless, we can see there's a lot of anecdotal evidence showing kim needs money, and he needs to statalk kim to get sanctions relief. >> i also think president trump is taking credit for that as well because he believes his tough talk with china brought china to the table to tighten the screws on north korea. i don't think we can discount president trump's role in making all of this happen. i will say he's being very ambiguous for a reason. whether it's nafta, whether it's chinese trade practices, the president doesn't really say what he wants out of something, and that allows him to go into a summit and maybe claim victory. >> we'll have to have you back. i'm trying to figure out what kim wants. does he want to have all of kor korea? >> yes, he does. >> he's like jerry adams in

northern ireland. gordon chang, shelby holliday, thank you. up next, the danger of being in trump's orbit, as the "new york times" points out, the trump administration has become a way of ruining people's reputations. you go in, you're stuck. lay down with dogs, you get fleas. why do so many people in trump's circle end up being damaged goods. you notice? you're watching "hardball." to move california forward,

we need to help more californians get ahead. that's why antonio villaraigosa brought both parties together to balance the state budget with record investments in public schools... and new career training programs. as mayor of la, he brought police and residents together to get illegal guns off the streets and keep kids out of gangs, and on the right path. that's antonio villaraigosa. a governor for all of california.

ronny jackson, admiral, doctor, is one of the finest men that i've met over the last long period of time. high quality. high quality family. i just met them. and i explained what happened. i explained that washington can be a very mean place. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump today talking about admiral ronny jackson, his failed nominee for va secretary.

well, jackson this week joined a long list of trump administration officials who have seen their once sterling reputations marred by scandal. as "the new york times" reported it, a ride on president trump's bullet train can be thrilling but it is often a brutal journey that leaves bloodied by the side of the tracks. the ghostwriter for the art of the deal gave his assessment. tony schwartz tells the times people are not people to him. they're instruments of his ego. when they serve his ego, they survive. when they don't, they pass into the night. that ego was on full display at the white house today. that's coming up next with the "hardball" roundtable.

racing isn't the only and with godaddy, i'm making my ideas real. with godaddy you can get a website to sell online. and it will look good. i made my own way. now it's time to make yours. ♪ everything is working just like it should ♪ "i have antivirus, but my computer's still slow..." "i think it's time for the fixmestick." fixmestick is a plug-in virus removal device. it's the smart, simple way to clean an infected computer, with a whole lot going on inside the stick... [computers sound] "this one got around the antivirus software!" "not a problem." "we're on it." and because it connects to the internet, fixmestick it's always up to date. fthere's flonase sensimist.tchy and watery near pollen. it relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't.

and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. welcome back to "hardball." president trump today said his failed nominee for va secretary, admiral ronny jackson, was brought down by false accusations. and in classic trump style, the president found a way to link jackson's treatment to his own troubles. >> i called him today. i said in a certain way, in a very big way, you're an american hero because you've exposed a system for some horrible things. i've had it happen to me with the russian collusion hoax. it's a hoax. but i came into the job understanding that things happen. he didn't. he's a great doctor. he's a great admiral. he didn't really think a thing like this could happen, and i

think it's a disgrace. >> let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable, jason johnson's politics editor of the root.com. dan eberhardt is a gop fund-raiser and ceo of canary llc. annie linskey is a reporter for the boston globe. i want to start with you, annie. trump, he does bring it back to himself, but it does seem to be this is a messy game being a trumpy. >> it really is. the amount of turnover revealed in that story today, it's kind of stunning to be reminded of that. there do seem to be two buckets of people that get chewed up in this trump machine. there are people who come in with a sterling reputation, and then trump hangs them out to dry in some way. >> examples? >> rex tillerson is the best, i think. you also have people who weren't really perhaps ready for prime time, and that becomes revealed when they're on the national

stage. you know, the combination therein, you're seeing so much turnover. >> anybody look better than they came in? anybody that looks better now? >> i think rick perry has done fine. i think nikki haley looks better. i think mike pence has executed brilliant lip for trump. >> anybody in the white house circle look better than they did coming into the white house? i mean close in. anybody near the trumps look better than when they came in? >> i would say -- >> ha! you got all the time you need. who looks good in the white house? >> mike pence. >> oh, in the white house. okay. fine. he's an elected official. go ahead. >> here's the thing. looking good -- >> i'll give you time to think about it. >> if i left the white house tomorrow and decided i was going to run for congressman or state senator in my home state, would that help me on my résume? and i would say almost nobody. there aren't a lot of people who could leave this administration and go back to any of those -- even those purple states, even

though states that flipped red and say, hi, i spent time in the trump administration. it's been a millstone on the neck of people in this administration. >> i'm thinking some of the guys who came in with their own scent to begin with. you know, roger stone with his reputation as what do you call it? a trouble maker. >> bannon for example. >> bannon was known as a trouble guy. and trump seems to like those guys. corey lewandowski, going in, going out about the same. >> price is another example of -- >> reince priebus, came in as party chairman, goes out as a guy who failed. >> i think there's a lot of people -- >> you've got time. >> there's a lot of people that have succeeded in the trump administration. kellyanne conway. >> you think she's looking good? >> i think she's done a marvel ousz job. i think her credibility has been enhanced. >> her credibility? >> not a chance. her credibility has been absolutely shrunk. she's the one who came up with

the term alternative facts. no one who is associated with alternative facts can be considered a respected person when they leave this white house. sebastian gorka, steve bannon. people leave this white house and they are tainted. they are tainted by the man who's at the top, who's sitting in the executive office right now. i don't see how anybody benefits coming from this place unless you're going to a place that is ideologically in line with this president. >> i don't think they're tainted by their association with trump. i think certain people have got -- have been unable to keep up with the pressure and unable to keep up with the pace. i think trump moves at the pace of business. i think it's different from government, and i think that it's caused a lot of consternation in washington. >> i would say mark short who be one person who has done a really good job of keeping his head down. >> mark short? >> he's the legislative director in the white house. he came from sort of the koch world. >> former pence chief of staff. >> rob porter. >> that's in the other category. >> it just seems to be a

problem. >> look, how many people work in the white house in the old executive office building? we know about the 10 or 15 or 30 people that the media puts up on the screen as the fallen angels. >> because they're the top people. >> but they're not all the top people. they're some of the top people. there's another, what, 500 people that work in the old executive office building. >> do you think sycophancy is a problem in this administration? we have to bow down really below trump for him to like you? do you in any way become a colleague or -- i'm not sure he's the only guy like this in politics by the way. but he seems to dislike it very much if anybody gets any ink besides him. >> you see these videos of the entire table. it's almost like an old mob movie, who has to tell him how great he has before he signs bills and does his work. that doesn't end up being beneficial to you long term. >> especially when he's walking around like robert de niro with a baseball bat. >> that was the image i liked.

it wasn't the last supper. it's more like -- let me think of the movie. i think it's the untouchables. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these people tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto.

progis it to carry cargo... fror to carry on a legacy?. its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground? this is the mercedes-benz suv family. greatness comes in many forms.

lease the gla250 for $349 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. jason, tell me something i don't know. did you hear that? >> yes. >> tell me something i don't know. >> so of course you know everybody waits too long to be in line. what you may not know is there is a commission that is supposed to address this. the presidential commission on election administration held a conference this weekend in d.c., and they said the best time to vote in america are right at 12:00 and right at 5:00. if you want to protect democracy, take an early lunch. 12:00 and 5:00. >> dan? what's the time for republicans to vote? during the day because they own all the businesses. they can decide whenever they want to vote. just a thought. go ahead. >> governor rick scott, while he's been governor of florida, has reduced the debt of the state of florida by one-third. i think that shows it can be

done. >> you're not only he here prom him, are you? that's not a prediction. that's a promotion. i get your point. >> chris, as you know, this weekend is white house correspondents association dinner. >> how can i forget? my 50th. >> it's only my third. i don't believe your viewers know who the boston globe's guest is. >> they will now. >> yes, they will. we are bringing somebody back from season one of the trump administration. so she will be in town again for this event, omarosa. >> that's a great get. thank you, jason johnson, dan eberhart and annie linskey. i can hide sarcasm. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching it, "hardball." when everything's connected, it's simple. easy. awesome.

when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. patients that i see about dry mouth.

they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene definitely works. [heartbeat] these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. expert medicine works here. learn more at cancercenter.com the full value of your new car? you're better off throwing your money

right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

trump watch, friday, april 27th, 2018. let's talk about collusion. collusion between the donald trump presidential campaign and the russian government. we know that moscow tried telling the 2016 presidential election in favor of donald trump, and tonight we learned of a new reason to believe that the russian government sought to give dirt on hillary clinton to the trump family. perhaps in exchange for a commitment to lift economic sanctions. we already knew about the readiness of donald trump jr., son-in-law jared kushner, and campaign honcho paul manafort to accept that promised dirt. i've said for months how strange this russian connection is. i've been following american politics for my entire career

and have never come across a candidate or a family with such an appetite for the east. what is it about donald trump that drives him ever eastward? his miss universe contest in moscow, his desire to build a trump tower in moscow, his readiness to hire so many people with russian connections. is it the huge amount of money in the post-soviet union, all those oligarchs with money looking to put it somewhere? it's not clear whether robert mueller will find trump guilty, but it's become harder to believe that there was nothing to such meetings as the one that occurred in trump tower that brought together agents of moscow with three top trump people to talk about trading dirt on hillary for a softer u.s. line on putin and his oligarchs. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. our top story tonight, a revelation tying the kremlin to the trump tower meeting. the key russian at the infamous trump tower campaign meeting offering dirt on clinton. let me tell you why this

matters. this person is now -- and this is really arguably for the first time in public reports -- linked directly to the kremlin. nbc news' richard engel reporting that ms. veselnitskaya does work for the kremlin. now, that is big because you may recall she told the u.s. senate -- and this was public -- that she was independent of any government bodies in russia and that she had denied any relationship with the very prosecutor who was considered a key source of potential incriminating material on putin foes. but pressed on the new evidence by engel, she's now admitting to more. >> the only reason i'm asking these questions is because of the contact that you had with the most senior people who are now in our government. >> you said your relationship