campaign finance conspiracies not to report the payment or have it routed or paid in a certain way so it stays to of the books to avoid detection or disclosure. those could be a couple of felonies. bank fraud, money laundering, a whole host of thing. >> and raudy giuliani certainly added to those suspicions with his comment. imagine if this happened before the third debate. >> and his use of the word funnel. >> you never want to have your attorney -- funnel it from me to you. >> i only watch "law and order" and i knew that was a bad word. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" starts right now. i will give chuck todd these 24 seconds back some day. >> some day, nicole. meantime, you have got to ask when does chris christie wind up joining giuliani on this legal tour? that's the only thing missing. >> indicate sera sera. >> yes, ma'am.

if it's tuesday, we are talking about rudy's duties. blamh good evening i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to a whirlwind day and welcome to "mtp daily." we begin with a flood of new legal headaches for the president and his new lead attorney rudy giuliani. most of these new headaches are self-inflicted thanks to comments made by giuliani in the past 24 hours there is seemingly more evidence that the president and his campaign tried to interview in the russia investigation. hears giuliani talking about the president's mind-set when he fired then fbi director james comey. >> he fired comey because comey would not among other things say he wasn't a target of the investigation. he is entitled to that. hillary clinton got that. and he couldn't get that. so he fired him. and he said i'm free of this

guy. >> according to the president's lawyer, he fired the fbi director because the agency wouldn't publicly clear him in an investigation we now know he is not a target but the subject of. because of giuliani, there is seemingly more evidence tieing the president to the $130,000 hush money payment made to stormy daniels during the campaign. >> that money was not campaign money. sorry. i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> they funneled it flew the law firm. >> funneled through a law firm. and the president repaid it. >> oh. i didn't know he did. >> yep. >> there is no campaign finance law? >> zero. >> you heard that right. funneled flew a law firm. president repaid it. that's what the president's attorney just said. not only did giuliani break news about the president's connection to a payment he claimed to know nothing about he also teamed to uncut the president' legal agent

that this payment had nothing to do with the election. >> you are saying that stephanie clifford made these allegations, told donald trump's lawyer -- >> and deny them. and then said it wasn't true. however, imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. >> so to make it go away. they made this -- >> they didn't even ask. >> cohen made it go away. he did his job. >> buy the way. the payment happened the day before comey two, if you recall, the infamous letter to congress. folks, whether it is the russia investigation or the stormy daniels days case, the scope of all of these self-inflicted wounds is remarkable. the biggest question perhaps is how deep do these wounds cut. and what does it mean about about the president's strategy going forward? before we get further into the giuliani news, we have a correction via nbc news. earlier today nbc reported there was a wiretap on the phones of

michael cohen trump's longtime personal attorney citing two separate sourcing with knowledge of the legal proceedings of michael cohen. it is not a wiretap where they were listening into the phone calls. but something else specifically. let me bring in tom winter here to explain. there is always a difference when you hear the words wiretap and surveillance. the level of detail of the surveillance, sometimes it's monitoring when a phone call comes in. sometimes it's overhearing. explain what we reported and what we now know. >> chuck, based on information from two independent sources who have a long term track record of credibility in providing accurate information to this news organization they today -- earlier today based on that information we reported there was a wiretap on michael cohen's phone meaning they were able to listen in to conversations from phone lines associated with michael cohen to any other person that he might have talked to. in part of that reporting we

said one of those phone calls was between a phone line associated with michael cohen and the white house. now, three senior u.s. officials are telling us that this is a -- it was not a wiretap. instead it was what is referred to a pen register. that means it is a log of phone calls that were made from a specific phone line or a specific phone lines. any this case we know that michael cohen had several phone lines. in this case, they were able to see who he called or who somebody using his phone lines called but they were not able to listen in real time or record those conversations. it is an important distinction, chuck. i want to add to that by saying it doesn't change necessarily the legal bar here. in order to get a warrant of this type, it's still a very serious matter because they would have needed to fill out a significant affidavit and be able to go down a significant road to get this approved by a federal judge. >> to bring back a phrase we used to use a lot during the

snowden revelations and during the investigation in the boston marathon, this is metadata. >> exactly. >> meaning he is being surveilled, but they are trying to figure out who he is talking to not necessarily what he is talking about. >> right. if i was going to call you, they would say my number and see that i dialed chuck todd. they would not know what you and i talked to each other. we could have talked about everything and fbi anything. to your point with respect to metadata. that's exactly what this is. it's a phone number and a time. base on what we saw by three u.s. officials, earlier the reporting was too far where it was a wiretap with real time monitoring. in this case, they were actually just able to see that somebody called somebody else. >> do we know the extent right now -- there have been some filings. and you and i were talking about it. the government admitted to some surveillance they have been doing for months over cohen. but we don't know the extent. do we know the extent of how

much they have been surveilling cohen? how thorough? has it been e-mails? texts? phone calls? what do we know? >> we know from public filings that they were able to do surveillance on his e-mails. the federal prosecute oorgs put that in open court. anybody with access or who wants to get the record can get it themselves. for that they had a filler team because there could be attorney client communications in that. they had a separate team look at that and hand over the relevant matters to the investigators working on the case. we know e-mails. we are told there was some sort of a pen register that have been used. we know what calls he was making or people using his phone lines were making. could there be other types of monitoring as it relates to communication. everybody uses texts or apps to

communicate. that's something we haven't been guided to or told explicitly. >> a correction to our earlier report that we know has gotten some big headlines. michael cohen's calls are being monitored but not being listened in to at least as far as our sources are concerned. nick ackerman joins us. and mimi rocha. mimi, let me start with you. i want to pick up on the different types of surveillance a federal prosecutor can get. what does it take to get the monitoring of e-mail versus the monitoring of phone calls, versus the recording of phone calls. can you walk us through a little bit. >> there is important distinctions here. i will start with what we now believe to be the surveillance at least some of the surveillance that occurred of

michael cohen, custom is the pen register. that is one of the least intrusive forms of surveillance. all it does is really records calls coming in to a certain phone and calls going out in realtime. so it is like a real time toll analysis. prosecutors can get historical toll analysis from a phone company but if they want to get things happening as they happen they have to get a pen register. it requires an application to a magistrate judge. it is not a probable cause threshold, though. it's something lower than that that's hard to articulate. because you are not getting content it is a little bit lower. it is lower than a probable cause threshold. >> all right. walk me through in the filing on that day on april 13th the government admitted to covert surveillance of multiple e-mail accounts. >> right. >> that's information. is that a higher threshold? >> yes. i don't know the nature of how they obtained those e-mails. there is different ways to get

e-mails. you can either get it through a search warrant just like you get a search warrant for an office or a premises you can get a search warrant for an e-mail account. that will give you again, historical e-mails that have been sent to and from people on that account. and that would require a very high showing just like we've been through and weave talked many times on your show and elsewhere about the probable cause standard and all the different high thresholds that you have to meet for that. you also could in some circumstances get e-mails in realtime. but that's very rare. and i don't know if that's what they were talking about here. it sound to me like a search warrant on an e-mail account. >> all right mimi rocha. thanks for that. nick ackerman let me go to you on something that we -- on rudy giuliani's tour of media outlets where it seems as if he may have created more legal problems for the president than he was hired to solve. on what he said on the new

premise that he said about the reason why the president fired the fbi director, how problematic is this idea now, that according to rudy giuliani -- i will read the quote. is that he fired comey because comey would not among other things say that he wasn't a target of the investigation. >> well, when you put that together with all of the other activity that donald trump was involved in from the firing of comey, asking comey not to drop the investigation on flynn. to telling lester hold that he fired comey because of the russian thing. when you put that all together, it creates a pattern that shows donald trump's corrupt intent, which is the critical element in obstruction of justice. he's trying to manipulate the system. he's trying to prevent the investigation. he's trying to impede the investigation. and i must say, what rudy giuliani did on the hannity show the other night, calling comey a

pathological liar when comey has absolutely corroborated each of those conversations with contemporaneous memos, calls rod rosenstein out for not getting a proper fisa warrant because using the chris teefr steele dossier had he in fact what started the whole matter was george papadopoulos a member of the trump campaign bragging to an individual who was connected with the australian government of the so this kind of attempt to manipulate the whole system, to put down the fbi, to put down the department of justice all amounts to one big obstruction. >> going on the issue of obstruction, though, i know that technically you can be charged with obstruction of justice even if the whatever crime you were trying to cover up isn't proven to be a crime.

ultimately you had james comey say i think it is a close call whether what he did is obstruction of justice. giuliani just gave a new ration rationale which i think ramps it up. is it fair to say that the obstruction case gets stronger if the conspiracy case is as strong when mueller presents it? >> no question about it. this is not about the cover-up of it's about the crime. and you have got several possible conspiracies that are likely to be charged. one relates to the crime committed against the democratic national committee, the break-in, the hacking, and then you have got the entire operation that was done with cambridge analytic and facebook trying to manipulate the clinton vote by trying to suppress it by micro targeting on specific voters. that's where the real crimes are going to be proven. and that's where you are going the see a couple of big conspiracy indictments. you have already seen one against the russians. it's just a matter now of them putting it together against the americans.

>> there is no doubt there was a crime we all know was committed. mueller has yet to tell us who he is specifically charging for that crime. we assume it will be the gru and russian intelligence. i think we have to wait to ehim talk there. me me let me go to the other issue that giuliani seemed to dredge up and create problems for the president here. and that's the stormy daniels payment. based on everything we now know that rudy giuliani said -- specifically, essentially speculating about you how it could have impacted the campaign, saying that the president funneled the money via legal fees, how prosecutable is this case right now under our campaign finance laws? >> well, it's -- we don't know all of the evidence obviously other than giuliani's statements so far and sort of what's come out in the public record. but it's certainly looking like a stronger case than it was even a couple of days ago or a day ago. and it was already looking like a rather strong case. because if you compare to it the jon edwards case, which was

prosecuted, this seems even stronger and some of the comments that giuliani made, specifically the one about tying it right to the timing of the debate really makes it look like this payment was to influence the campaign, the election. and that's the key analysis for this kind of crime. and so all of these other excuses and logistics that they are talking about, how it was paid, when it was paid, those don't do away with the fact that if it's paid to influence the campaign that's the central analysis and whether trump paid the money back or not i don't think changes that. so i think it already was looking stronger if you want to compare to it the high-profile case that we know that was prosecuted it looks even stronger now. >> i'm curious, what do you make of the very properly worded set of tweets this morning from the president using phrasiology in a we rarely see him use normally on his twitter account talking about the fact that he had a retainer, this is a monthly retainer, and he was there just

represent -- is that enough of a backtrack to make it harder for you to bring this case? >> i mean they can call it whatever they want. for them to put the label on it isn't going to change the nature of the evidence. so, you know, the investigators are going to look at how the payments were actually structured, custom we don't -- i mean all -- which we don't -- all we have right now is what giuliani and trump in his tweet or whoever wrote that said. investigators need to look at the actual payments, the actual record how it was structured and be informed by the actual other evidence, very important e-mails, information from cofreighters, current or future. there is a lot that goes into that. but them putting certain labels on it, call it a retainer doesn't change how the investigation will conclude. >> final question to you nick ackerman, i want to put on your watergate hat again. >> sure. >> what mueller's team hearing now that they see giuliani deciding -- it's clear to me the

president has changed his legal strategy from hiring lawyers having a legal strategy to instead having a political strategy. how does -- how is mueller's team taking this in in your mind. >> i think they are going to do exactly what they have been doing, plowing ahead on this investigation. i think ultimately they are going to serve a grand jury subpoena on donald trump. if this goes to the courts it's going to be upheld and he's going to have to go into a federal grand jury before 23 citizens in the district of columbia and provide testimony while his lawyers wait outside the jury room. >> mimi rocha, nick ackerman, trying unpack all of this every day it is a challenge. thanks to both of you for providing your expertise. up ahead a closer look at rudie giuliani's role on the trump legal team. this is a political fight now, folks. we will see how it plays out. kyle, we talked about this. there's no monsters. but you said they'd be watching us all the time.

no, no. no, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24/7. we just bundled home and auto and saved money. that's nothing to be afraid of. -but -- -good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] ♪ i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. he's never like this. i think something's going on at school. -[ sighs ] -he's not engaging. vof hundreds of families, he'se hmost proud of the one the heads he's kept over his own. brand vo: get paid twice as fast with quickbooks smart invoicing. quickbooks. backing you. and it's also a story mail aabout people and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you

xfinity x1 customers can "vote for the voice."g, i'm gonna vote for... unless, kelly clarkson, you're a coach, because, you know, that wouldn't be fair. [ whispering ] whatever. which artist will you vote for? vote for... ok, still know it's you. i just wanna vote! cast your vote during every live show. simply say, "vote for the voice" or your favorite artist's name into your x1 voice remote. come on!

if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take

and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ♪ otezla. show more of you. welcome back. let's bring in tonight's panel. cornell bep belcher. heidi priss bowla. and george quill. gorge, i'll start with you. and the tour of rudy giuliani. to me it's the larger issue here, which is the president just totally changed tactics. he went from finding a legal team who thought they could massage this legal situation to forget it. i want to start firing bullets. and giuliani is doing it. >> the question is should mr. trump talk to mueller and his lawyers. now the question is does he talk to his own lawyers?

they should be on the same page. nothing that he says could help him hi ion. he has to be quiet and let this proceed. but being quiet is not his forte. >> all you have to do is read any roy coyne book and realize he is taking -- he has listened to one lawyer his whole life, roy cohen, roy cohen, fight, fight, fight. >> i don't know law that uhl well, i know in the court of public opinion those women sitting in middle america this is at least guilty of being shady and untrustworthy, right, when you have the president funneling money through his lawyer to pay off porn stars before an election. in middle america i'm sorry, that's guilty. i don't know i don't know about the court law but i know it hurts them in middle america. >> it seems that the pivotal change here also was the michael cohen raid. because trump knows possibly what is in those documents, what's in those phone calls. and if there is evidence there

that he knew about the payments, that the payments did have everything to do with the campaign as rudy giuliani seemed to possibly have said that they need to change tactic. and it was calculated that rudy would go out there, acknowledge this on tv and try to spin it as not a campaign finance vie laying. the first comments he made said this was a personal payment. this had to do with preserving the president's relationships within his family. then he possibly stepped in it by acknowledging it also had to do with their concern about the campaign calendar. >> it is clear that giuliani had been trying to play cleanup since the hannity interview. that's why he went on fox and friends. the biggest cleanup is this presidential tweet which is the most coherent thing he ever tweeted. mr. cohen, an attorney received a retainer.

these agreements are common among celebrities and people involved. i mean, it is so well constructed. >> he is talking about something that occurred in the middle of october in a year divisible by you are to. obviously it had something to do with the campaign. it does not following however that it is a violation of campaign finance laws. i happen to three all campaign finance laws are unconstitutional. >> fair enough. the irony is that the president would admit it was his money, he paid, and he paid it the whole thing. i would argue that it is not a campaign finance violation. >> i would make an argument that it is because you are trying to do something that would have an impact on an election. just like if i'm spending money to impact the election, what's the difference here? you are spending money because you don't want this to impact the election. >> but if you are being blackmailed. the thing is you may feel like you are being blackmailed in

this? >> it's to the uncommon for any political campaign to say -- >> i don't think the writers of the law had this in mind. >> i agree. >> exposing the lie today. exposing the lie of the president of the president on air force one saying he didn't know about this, didn't know about the payment. here's what you would have to believe to believe that. a porn star approaches michael cohen in the campaign with totally bogus accusations but michael cohen decides anyway to transfer $130,000 from his home equity loan -- >> by the way no, talk to the president. >> doesn't talk to the president. >> and the president, not knowing about any of this, agrees to automatic transfer payments not knowing anything about what the nature of it is. >> why, george, do you think the president tries to sell us these stories that justice common -- they break -- the minute you try to think of them rationally they break down to -- >> because he pays no price. that's why. in the day in ikt chicago in the

'50s and '60s when the original mayor daily's machines are operating they discovered if the you have a scandal every week no one can concentrate on them. so you have immune through profusion. that's what he has here. >> now i know why you brought this book. show us the title. >> allan dershowitz was on msnbc three hours ago. three felonies a day. if there is one book i wish all americans would read, it's this one. it is a puckish title but he is serious. he said any one of us sitting here could be charged by three felonies by an imaginative prosecutor. if you don't believe there is prosecutorial abuse in this country. >> you have to show the book. i also meant the title said three felonies a day. i thought you meant that's what the president is walking into. >> it's what we all -- >> i don't think he pays a price because when you look at the

republican base they are rallying more and more around them. it is a problem with moderate voters and progressivet voers. but inhis base is going to stand behind him. >> that's why they released the mueller questions was to rally the base and help justify the president in saying i'm not going to sit for an interview. >> ty cobb, if you didn't know you were being hung out to try rudy held the towel up on that front. is this going to enwell with the president with rudy giuliani here. or will rudy not survive as his lead attorney? >> is he his lead attorney now? seriously. >> it is my understanding he is seen as the lead attorney. >> fungible. >> it appears it's concocted between trump and giuliani if mcgahn and his new lawyer flood didn't know about this strategy. >> rudy giuliani said that is true, he did not inform anybody

at the white house of anybody he has been doing. >> this is a mess. >> a lead attorney leads somebody. who is he leading. >> at this point, jay sekulow and emmet flood. the married couple from miami as well. he does seem to have -- >> do they know one another? >> well, that is definitely an open question there. all right. when we come back, i want to look more at the new political strategy, what rudy giuliani did last night. you know, he didn't just get the president in more legal trouble. he just started shooting a of the a lot of people. we will get the best of that in a few minutes. do you know what today is? if you think it's only thursday, you are going to have to guess again. type 2 diabetes. i'm trying to manage my a1c, then i learn type 2 diabetes puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. she told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar, but for people with type 2 diabetes

treating their cardiovascular disease, victoza® is also approved to lower the risk of major cv events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. while not for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. (announcer) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. stop taking victoza® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck or symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing, or swallowing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. so stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. tell your doctor your medical history. gallbladder problems have happened in some people. tell your doctor right away if you get symptoms. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. side effects can lead to dehydration,

which may cause kidney problems. change the course of your treatment. ask your doctor about victoza®. ayep, and my teeth are yellow.? time for whitestrips. crest glamorous white whitestrips are the only ada-accepted whitening strips proven to be safe and effective. and they whiten 25x better than a leading whitening toothpaste. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life.

♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ discover card. i justis this for real?match, yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with may 3 r. today. it is world press freedom day according to the u.n. general assembly. here at "mtp daily" we can certainly get on board with that. but apparently it's also world password day, which is for what exactly? pondering on line security? password appreciation maybe? doesn't it seem like we have a day almost every day? we started checking the calendar n. may we have international migratory bird day,el world telecommunication and information society day. and towel day. yes, towel day. terry cloth lovers get ready. and june 28th is international cats lock day. august 13th, international

left-handers day, octob s day. is there a governing body that decides which thing gets a day? can we just announce days at random? we have decided yes. so by the authority vested in me by absolutely no one. i declare november 6 to be the first annual international met the press day. it also happens to be saxophone day and national nachos day. we are happy to share. nachos, john wayne theme song serenaded on a socks phone. you didn't know that? it is a long time international meet the res day tradition. we'll be right back. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges.

what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores.

liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's treatment isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach. ♪ south l.a. is very medically underserved. when the old hospital closed people in the community lived with untreated health problems for years.

so, with the county's help we built a new hospital from the ground up and having citi as an early investor worked as a signal to others to invest. with citi's help we built a wonderful maternity ward and we were able to purchase an mri machine. we've made it possible for the people who live here to lead healthier lives and that's invaluable. ♪ i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. the major indexes closing down overall but rallying off the day's lows after a sharp fall early in the session.

the dow inched out a five point gain erasing a 400 point loss. the s&p dropping six points. the nasdaq falling by 12 points. comments by elon musk during tesla's earnings call wednesday sent shares tumbling. he doned questions about model 3 production and chided analysts for questions he considered boring bone head and not cool. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "mtp daily." i know james comey. i know the president. sorry jim, you are a liar. a disgraceful liar. every fbi agent in america has his head down because of you. i actually think comey is lying. i think comey is a bigger liar than mccabe. i think mccabe is a situational liar. he is a bigger liar. i'm sorry hillary, i know you

didn't win. you are a criminal. this is a justice department complete out out of control. it breaks my heart. >> he can with. the when you hire rudy giuliani as been are you hiring the political pundit or the state attorney jewel joule. the panel is back, cornell, heidi, george. heidi, with giuliani there is a yin and yang. you have the mayor after 19. and then you have that guy that we just saw. >> right. and if they want to help energy zwriz our already energized democratic base you can go back to picking on hillary clinton and picking on any number of trumps foes who are now out of the spotlight. but i think there is also a method here. and it's that giuliani, you know, we are seeing a definite pivot here to a more aggressive strategy. and that he could at least for

now, unless they determined that that was a big mistake for example, on the campaign finance slipup be in the spotlight. but i think it also has to do with him trying to send a message to michael cohen. i think it has to do with him trying the get a message to trump that they need to narrow these questions in the mueller investigation and that he essentially not even sit for this interview. >> one quick thing. is that jaul jewel -- when you think about the giuliani after 9/11, huge figure. most people would argue that's a guy who has a future, right, presidential race. then you see that giuliani and you understand why that crumbled. >> he always would wear out his welcome. >> why the 9/11 guy never surfaced. and it's horrible politics for middle america. >> george, i'm curious. you sort of -- your first journalistic job was this the shadow of watergate at the national review. are you having flakbacks. >> i am, and i had one a moment ago when ackerman in talking to

you referred to the hacking as a break in at the democratic national committee. i said i've seen that movie. >> it doesn't end well. >> it doesn't. >> are we at spring of '74 or summer of '73. >> summer of 73. a long way to go. >> i want to put up a few other thing here, rudy defending his aggressive tactic. anybody who says i'm exage rating when i say this is an outof control investigation and they are acting like storm troopsers give me a break baby they prove it every day. >> what good comes out of attacking the mueller investigation like this? >> i'm back with you. it is they know they are using but they have to lose less. i think they lose in less if they can lock in their base. i think after the midterm elections the only thing that's going to be standing for the republican party is their core base. >> you about that's enough for the president to survive, isn't it?

>> yes. >> what do you think? >> i don't think this president is going to wind up. i talked to someone very close to this white house this morning and i was shocked to see him so definitive there are so many people surrounding this president who decided he just should not sit for this interview and the way to make that happen is to turn the public against -- this has been happening all along. >> sure. >> but to really turn the public against mueller, to rally the base, have them believe he has moved beyond the scope. >> i think they want the grand jury subpoena weirdly enough in order to have the fight. >> because he is not going to walk into the grand jury building. just not going to happen. >> never will happen. but you get to have the fight and you draw it out. >>ert that. impeachment if this is what we are ultimately talking about a political judgment. no one knows what high crimes and misdemeanors are. they are what people say they are in the context of a particular fight. >> do you think there is a -- you know, it is interesting, you too seem 100% convinced that republicans are going to stick with trump no matter what.

is there something mueller can lay out here where the president starts losing support? do you think there is something mueller can lay out? >> i can imagine one but i don't see it coming. they plighted their -- plated their trough to this guy and they are going to stick with him. >> trump him in preying. getting the e-mails? >> watch his children, too. if jared kushner in some way, if his son-in-law is involved that would do it. >> chuck, the strategy is to make sure that the base, no matter what the charge is or what he is found gelf or what the crime is that they don't believe it. that's why you have sean hannity during the mueller crime family chart. to discredit -- >> they are conditioning his base to not believe whatever is said. >> we are talking about -- he is paying a porn star. who survives that.

>> you know what trump supporters would say, actually, thild say bill clinton survived all of this, hillary clinton survived all of this, why shouldn't trump survive it too. there is a rationale, if they aren't going to get punished then our guy isn't. >> has one evangelical christian leader broken with him. >> no. >> he is doing unbelievably well with evangelicals. >> if you are donald trump you have never paid a price. your biggest failures have been your biggest success storied. you lost your urge ma. you married marla then melania. he lost your business and you ended up licensing your name and you didn't have to become a developer anymore. >> that's a connection with regular americans. they pay prices, there are consequences. you have 'an elite in this country rigging the game and they don't pay consequences for it. >> right now everybody pay as consequence for trump's behavior except trump. that has been a phenomenon. >> we saw that at the briefing

today. >> he would don't let other people get away with what trump got away with night is getting away with it part of his charm. >> people voed to the persona, i don't care, i break crockery. people i think are still lying it. whether the act gets old, i don't know. borishness can become boring some day but not one day. >> stick around. up ahead, the gop's nobel pursuit. why some specific republican law make remembers campaigning on behalf of president trump to receive the nobel peace prize. with powerload™ technology. feed the line. push the button. and get back to work. with an industry first, carbon-fiber shaft... lawn care has never been this easy... ...or this powerful. the new ego power+ string trimmer with powerload™ technology. exclusively at the home depot and ego authorized dealers. at a comfort inn with a glow taround them,

so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com." who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com. "i have antivirus, but my computer's still slow..." "i think it's time for the fixmestick." fixmestick is a plug-in virus removal device. it's the smart, simple way to clean an infected computer, with a whole lot going on inside the stick... [computers sound] "this one got around the antivirus software!" "not a problem." "we're on it." and because it connects to the internet, fixmestick it's always up to date. you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

welcome back. tonight in meet the mid terms. if you are a republican running in a statewide primary and you need to proof your trump bona fides. what do you do? 18 house republicans signed on to a letter brushing for trump to be considered for the 2019 award for his policies toward north korea. of course this comes before the meeting between president trump and kim jong-un. of the signatories six are running in statewide elections this year. including indiana's luke messer. also on the list, marcia blackburn, kevin kramer, north dakota's senate. jim ray naysy, ohio senate. diane black, tennessee governor.

all of them in primaries. all of them in these primaries trying to make sure they get the trump support. so it is a bit of a litmus test for republican voters. could it end up burning a cull.these candidates in a general election? that's the issue. how much do you hug him in the primary in these swing state elections. he will be back with more "mtp daily" right after this. i was wondering if an electric toothbrush really cleans better than a manual. and my hygienist says it does but they're not all the same. who knew? i had no idea. so she said, look for one that's shaped like a dental tool with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b.

oral-b's rounded brush head surrounds each tooth to gently remove more plaque, and oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the american dental association for its effectiveness and safety. my mouth feels so clean. i'll only use an oral-b. oral-b. brush like a pro. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™

light under control™ you can do it. we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. -whoo! time for "the lid." the panel is back. last week about this time we did the how divided is america, america is so divided that the house of representatives can't even agree on a cap listen. it was one of these like two years before the american civil war they fought about this. this you can believe. guess what, the house chaplain rescinded his resignation. he writes, i have never been disciplined or reprimanded. he goes on to say -- he claims

that ryan's chief of stap staff told him when asked why he was being let go he said something like, maybe it's time that we had a chaplain that wasn't a c. okay. >> that's helpful for the mid terms. >> i gotta tell you, chuck, when this story first broke, a democratic lawmaker pulled me aside and said, they're doing this because they want to replace him with an evangelical. and i dismissed it, i said they wouldn't be so blatant. and whether it was the prayer or something else recently that he had done that kind of underscored that, underneath it all was, they wanted to replace him with an evangelical. when i saw that today, that's going to really hurt. >> having a priest say it, he believes he was asked to resign because he's catholic. >> by a catholic. >> by a catholic. i guess ryan has cover on one hand, but there was a lot of -- and now we had one, i believe

there was one anonymous source, house member who said, now we can't name anybody but a catholic. >> well, this is, a, an object less why a nation with a pluralist tradition shouldn't have chaplains. >> what part of separation of church and state allows for that? >> well, the author of the amendment was in the first congress, established the chaplain. he said this was done without my apro bation. >> meaning he believed it was a mistake? >> yes. >> you know, madison had a point there, cornell. >> madison's a visionary. all i know, catholic voters aren't going to like this and they're an important part of the midterm elections. >> there were a lot of republican catholics who were upset when this happened. >> we have a response from speaker ryan. he put this out. i've accepted father conroy's letter and decided he will remain as chaplain of the house. my original decision was made to

be in the best and of the sedation, based on my duty to ensure that the house has the pastoral services it believes. i intend to sit down with father conroy early next week so that we can move forward for the good of the whole house. probably a necessary statement by the speaker there. >> optional fight. i mean, this is going out the door, mr. ryan indicates why he shouldn't have been there in the first place. it's not his strength. >> we were never told why he was asked for his resignation and we still don't have an answer. >> and now he stays. >> they are not very good at politics right now, which is shocking. like republicans have always been better -- they're horrible at governing, i would argue, but better at politics. this is not good politics. >> no, it seems an unforced error. speaking of unforced errors, the leader on the other side, we were talking about this earlier, a day after nancy pelosi says, i intend to run for speaker, you bet i'm running for speaker, now

she gets to "washington post" finds all these congressional candidates, i'm not voting for her for speaker. why bring attention to this? >> i don't know. i think there are a lot of issues that congressional candidates would like to be talking about, particularly economically -- [ all speak at once ] -- but now you have them having to answer these questions, it throws democrats off message. i think it's an unforced error. >> i think she was asked a question in a context of a meeting with reporters and she answered it. you know, obviously it invited this scrutiny from "the washington post" and now we know the exact numbers of what she would have to achieve in terms of total numbers of a majority in order to retain her speakership. >> what i find fascinating, i believe it's now possible we'll have some sort of out of the box speaker. if pelosi and mccarthy insist on trying to do it, neither one of them looks like they can get to 18. >> you don't have to be a member

of the house to be speaker. so, i don't know. the rock. >> the house is broken as it is. they can't figure out the chaplain, and other stuff, why not. >> i like chuck. >> doesn't have to be a member of congress. >> in this day and age where any group of 20 people can essentially hold something hostage and now there is almost an incentive structure via social media to do this, i have a feeling we're going to have a series of very weak speakers. >> keep an eye out for the younger guns in the house on the dem side, waiting for their opportunity. keep an eye on the crawleys, on the ryans of ohio, some young guns from middle america who can bring a consensus together. keep an eye on them. >> i remember kanter, ryan, they were going to do the same thing for the republican party, right, george? >> exactly. >> fair enough. don't use the phrase young guns. didn't work out so well the last time. up ahead, saying goodbye to a friend for now. whoooo.

when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. don't sweat your booking. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

miracle-gro guarantees results >> vo: these neighbors are starting right. with rich potting mix and essential plant food for three times the blooms. success is sweet. miracle-gro. three times the beauty. one powerful guarantee. hey, want thedone.est internet? and now, xfinity mobile is included.

you can get up to five lines. you can save 400 bucks or more a year, which you can spend on a funk-tastic music video. ♪ dance party boom. ♪ simple. easy. awesome. come see how you can save $400 or more a year with xfinity mobile. plus, ask how to keep your current phone. visit your local xfinity store today. >> finally tonight, in case you missed it, a true icon is saying he's had enough, at least for now. ichiro suzuki, that magician of a hitter is transitioning to the mariners front office at least for the rest of this year. though he says he may play again. assuming he doesn't, let's pause for the moment to recognize the greatness of this athlete.

4,367 hits in japan and the major leagues. more than pete rose, more than ty cobb. the player, not the lawyer. more than anyone. in his prime, there was nothing he couldn't do, hit, run, field, and oh, could he throw. above all, he displayed a grace and modesty that's rare in all sports. let alone baseball. ichiro achieved that high celebrity status like lebron or shaq or kareem. he's on a first-name basis with all of us. just ichiro. he's easily my favorite player not on one of my favorite teams, dodgers or nationals. and it's hard to see him go. i don't want to say goodbye so much as just thank you, ichiro. thank you for playing the game the way you did with elegance and passion, discipline, and most importantly, a love for the game which loved you right back. talk about a first balloter. you know what, i really hope we can say he's the all-time hits leader and just leave it at that. because you know what else, is

ichiro ever did, i don't think he bet on anybody but himself. "the beat" starts right now. good evening, ayman. >> i think a lot of of people would agree with you on ichiro as well. thanks for that. i'm in for ari melber. we begin tonight with rudy guiliani's bombshell revelation, admitting donald trump repaid the stormy daniels' money. >> that money was not campaign money. sorry, i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. they funneled it through a law firm. >> funneled through a law firm and the president repaid it. >> oh, i didn't know he did. >> yep. >> there's no campaign finance law? >> zero. >> the president reimbursed that over a period of several months. >> so many questions in that particular statement from giuliani. though now questions over whether trump broke federal law by