grow your business... ♪ ♪ another way we have your back. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. welcome to "politics nation." on sunday morning, it's time for reflection and i wonder about the health of the nation as it ingested another week of trump falsehoods and contradictions. we know his ardent base remains impenetratable to logic, but those who still have concerns and yet support his presidency, i ask what is the narrative, the

strategy you see from this president that you still have faith in? we saw where rudy giuliani, who now is part of his legal team, went on television and said some pretty outrageous stuff. but i have a different theory about what rudy is doing. i think they knew the money that has been transferred, over $400,000 in this period of time at the end of the campaign from trump to his lawyer, michael cohen, who's now under intense investigation, they knew it was going to come out. maybe when rudy was talking as a new attorney to the mueller investigators they told him. maybe the southern district where he used to be the head of told him. maybe they now feel -- but rudy's job was to get ahead of it and give a narrative.

he may have done it in a way that wasn't artful, but his mission was to get ahead of the story. and there's a lot more to come, i believe. and that is why i question what narrative are you waiting for? all that is on our show today. joining me, two strategists, democrat don callaway and republican chris prudhome. let me go to you, chris. everybody is talking about rudy giuliani. he'll be doing a number of morning shows today. but the fact is that donald trump did not repudiate or tweet against rudy with near the kind of attacks he's done on people like his own attorney general, jeff sessions, or others, which i think supports my theory that rudy was assigned to get ahead of the story because they know inevitably this $400,000 plus was coming out and they needed

someone with credibility in law enforcement circles to give a narrative, which rudy inartfully did. >> well, i certainly do believe that rudy is certainly doing all that he can. he has been broad in to kind of clean up and move the ship in a totally different direction, bringing a little bit more of course structure to it, as we all know. of course it's obviously been a very challenging time. look, i think at the end of the day this investigation has been quite challenging. as we know with judge ellis, frankly what it comes down to is a lot of rhetoric and frankly a witch hunt on the president. and that's what this entire thing is about, so he's coming in and cleaning up and really addressing -- >> how can you call it a witch hunt when we have people that have been indicted, we have people that are waiting to go to trial. witch hunt, you've already had several indictments out of this

investigation. >> you're absolutely right, reverend. and when you have judge ellis discussing things such as, look, if manafort is being indicted and these are talking about election crimes in 2016, then why is anything in the case from 2011. if that's the case -- if that's the case indeed, let it be about 2016, not 2011 and 2012 and that's what this should be about. >> let me bring you in, don. this is one federal judge. that does not mean even those others on the bench in virginia agree with him or once he reads, because he said that he wanted to see the actual letters or documents that gave authorization to mueller in the first place, once he reads it, he may have a different view. the fact is that this investigation has already reaped some prosecutions. and we now have the president's

legal team admitting that he did in fact pay some money to cohen, that really puts the $130,000 within the realm of possibly being in that money, something that the president flatly denied knowledge of or having done himself on video. so i mean we can't say this is a witch hunt when we are seeing that this has actually reaped some things already and we do not know where this is going. and the politics of this could be devastating if the democrats are able to energize their base and get some of the independents to say, wait a minute, there's too much smoke here, there has to be fire. >> hey, good morning, reverend al. you're absolutely right, and i respect my brother, chris, for very valiantly trying to defend the president's actions. but the crazy thing is, it's been another wild week in washington and none of it really makes a whole lot of sense so

let's try to deconstruct this a little bit. it's kind of laughable to say rudy giuliani is the president's legal counsel. no lawyer worth his weight in salt would go out and make the comments that he made. from just the one interview with sean hannity, we see three federal and serious offenses. improper campaign payment to a mistress, which is precisely what john edwards was indicted for with his payments to riall hunter. secondly, rudy giuliani said that he laundered the money through michael cohen's, quote unquote, law firm. i say that in quotes because michael cohen's credentials as a lawyer as opposed to a fixer are somewhat not exactly viable. so he laundered the money which is exactly what tom "the hammer" delay was not only indicted but convicted for not too long ago. thirdly, if you consider what denny hastert was convicted for just three years ago, he was not

convicted for the sexual assault during his time as a high school wrestling coach, he was convicted for structuring the payments to the whistleblower and that's precisely what michael cohen did in his payments to stormy daniels in paying those installments of $35,000, $40,000, $35,000. lastly to chris's point about let's keep this to 2016, the charter that creates the special counsel for the department of justice that rosenstein drafted is very, very clear that the special counsel, robert mueller, has the power to investigate everything surrounding russian interference into the 2016 investigation and other matters that may arise therefrom. so the special counsel has a very, very broad charter which is why this president should be concerned about his activities going into the 2016 election, but also a broad range of activities that go far back. if you consider bill clinton and watergate, he was impeached

because of his involvement with monica lewinsky that had nothing to do with -- >> which was even further back in time than we're talking about here. let me bring another issue up to you, chris, before we run out of time. the president spoke at the nra on friday, their convention, and this in the face of the parkland shootings of literally hundreds of thousands of high schoolers and supporters marching all over the nation and he's sitting there in the roosevelt room of the white house saying to senators, you're afraid of the nra or something of that effect and he goes there and does the cheer and the hug and the embrace of all of their policies and pledges to stay the line. he's going against the tide of public opinions about dealing with ar-15 military-style weapons and going with a heavy

background check. how does this affect the midterm elections for you republicans? >> i don't believe it completely affects the midterm elections. as we all know the stance on gun control from a conservative stand point and a reality standpoint. look, it's important for americans to defend obviously ourselves when it comes to violence. >> you don't need a military-style weapon to defend yourself. you don't need 100 rounds to defend yourself. >> we're dealing with terrorists, lone wolves, isis is out of control. >> which is exactly right. if it's a different day and time -- >> but the president also -- but let's not forget the president has made an effort in regard to bump stocks, getting rid of that. >> bump stocks is so you can't -- >> leading the effort -- >> it's illogical. the reason you're opposed to bump stocks is so they can't have rapid fire weapons, but you're not going to make rapid

fire weapons illegal. come on, we're talking out of both sides of our mouth here. >> reverend, he's made the effort to lead the charge in getting, as you know -- >> lead what charge? >> major organizations and taking automatic weapons off of their shelves, as we all know. he's continuously fighting the cause to obviously move us in a different direction. >> we saw the cause he was fighting. he led the cause at the nra on friday. i'm out of time. thank you, don. thank you, chris. coming up, just three months after the mass shooting at the school in florida, president trump, as i said, addressed the nra convention. i wanted reaction from a survivor of parkland high school. that's next. stay with us. as a control enthu, i'm all-business when i travel... even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations-

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we strongly believe in allowing highly trained teachers to carry concealed weapons. they're highly trained. 98% of mass public shootings have occurred in places where guns are banned, just so you understand. tragically as we've seen, there's no sign more inviting to a mass killer than a sign that declares this school is a gun-free zone. come in and take us. >> as expected, president trump preached the gospel of gun

worship at the nra convention friday in dallas. less than three months after the mass shooting that left 17 people dead at stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida. the president, who signalled some openness to gun reform after the parkland shooting, reverted to type, rallying his pro-gun base and praising an nra that publicly criticized teenage shooting survivors turned activists. joining me now is aleyah eastman a survivor of the shooting at stoneman douglas high. thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> you came and spoke at the action network convention earlier last month at our

headquarters and you told the story that really moved me about your own experiences that day when the shooting occurred and you were in class at stoneman. i will never forget you said that at first you thought it was a prank, and then you saw a classmate shot, and then you hid under another classmate. recount that story for our viewers of what you personally went through that morning. >> i was in room 1214, and i was in the third classroom that the shooter shot into. as he was shooting into my class, the classmate in front of me, he fell over and i fell over with him and i just went underneath his body and laid there. >> and he died, the classmate in front of you? >> yes. >> so you were literally under a dead body to cover yourself to live. that's the horror that you've lived through and that you have to live through every day?

>> yes. >> now, in light of that, when you see the president and others not adjusting at all to using any kind of influence they have to stop these military weapons, has someone that feels their alive today because you laid under a dead classmate's body to defend yourself against the shooting, how do you feel? let's take the politics out of the policy, how do you as a survivor look at what he and others are saying? >> it makes me angry, but it puts a fuel to my fire and makes me want to fight harder. >> he has attacked -- many on the right have attacked you and your classmates for turning into activists. did anyone come along and try to make you activists and force you or did this just emanate from what you experienced that day?

>> nobody forced me. it's something that i feel obligated to do. i survived for a reason and i have a purpose. if my purpose is to fight for change, then i will do that. >> now, when you and others spoke at the huge march for lives, you laid out very specific goals about what you wanted, outlawing military-style weapons and in terms of background checks, very serious but simple goals. you have continued that all over the country. like i said, you've been with n.a.n. and others. are you confident that those goals will be part of what's considered in the midterm elections? >> yes, 100%, because we, the youth of this generation, are very strong and we're going to get what we deserve. so whatever we have to do, we're going to do it. >> well, thank you, aalayah,

thank you for coming on this morning. and remember when then candidate trump asked black america what the hell do you have to lose by voting for him? well, i have another item i'm going to throw on that list. stay tuned, you're watching "politics nation." ♪ piano music >> vo: they want more out of life in every way. so they're starting this year's garden with miracle-gro potting mix and plant food. together, they produce three times the harvest to enjoy... and of course, to share. this soil is fresh from the forest and patiently aged to guarantee more of what matters... every time. three times the harvest. one powerful guarantee. miracle-gro.

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and now for this week's gotcha. i really, really try to layoff president trump during this segment. otherwise i'd be hitting him here every single week. but this week i had some special motherland style blueberry pie for the commander in chief, because as you recall the president is alleged to have referred to several african and afro-caribbean nations as, quote, s-hole countries. back in january during a meeting on immigration he was allegedly to have said that. the black diasper was outraged and condemned the insult in official statements. regardless, the president never admitted to the language, let alone apologized for it.

but earlier this week, he hosted a joint news conference with the president of nigeria, who was asked about it. >> president buhari, you're the first leader from sub-saharan africa to visit president trump here at the white house. did you address his reported comments from earlier this year when he reportedly used vulgar language to describe african nations? >> the best thing for me is to keep quiet. >> incapable of keeping quiet, president trump chimed in. >> we didn't discuss it. and you do have some countries that are in very bad shape and very tough places to live in. but we didn't discuss it because the president knows me and he knows where i'm coming from, and i appreciate that. we did not discuss it. mr. president, you can ask a question. >> you catch that? not a denial. they simply didn't discuss it. they did, of course discuss

trade policies favorable to the united states and the president's request that african nations support the u.s. bid for the 2020 fifa world cup of soccer. i guess those s-hole countries aren't so bad when you need something. but the change doesn't appear to be mutually beneficial because i also read this week that kenya's oldest family planning network has lost more than $2 million in u.s. aid since october. because of the trump administration's reinstated ban on funding groups that facilitate abortions. the cuts have been particularly harmful in sub-saharan africa where such clinics provide reproductive care that poor african women cannot access otherwise. as y'all remember, then candidate trump asked black americans what we had to lose,

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as i mentioned before the break, president trump loves uncritical support from black people but continues to ignore the inequalities that threaten black lives. he was quick to publicize rapper kanye west's endorsement of him last week, but he said nothing about the courage of james shaw jr., the black tennessee man who disarmed the suspect in the mass shooting at a tennessee waffle house last month. and despite his justice department insisting that embattled police departments suffer under reform agreements, he has not commented on the controversial arrest of

shaquisha cleem ents or the two men arrested at a philadelphia starbucks just minutes after arriving or the coroner's report released this week that shows an unarmed black man stephon clark was shot three times in the back by sacramento police. as i said before, black america cannot count on this white house to recognize grief or greatness unless, of course, you're a friendly rapper. joining me now is tiffany cross, managing editor of "the beast d.c." and jason johnson politics editor for theroot.com and msnbc contributor. tiffany, you cover in thebeatdc.com a lot of what's going on on the hill. in fact you do my radio show with me on tuesdays telling black american radio listeners

about what's going on in the senate and the congress that relates to their communities. one of the things that you and i have talked about is no matter whether it was stephon clark in sacramento or the case of clemons now in mobile, alabama, which i've been involved in both, let me be in full disclosure, or other situations of race, starbucks in philadelphia, there's been radio silence from this administration. not one word. and when you have an unarmed black man disarm a man that had an ar-15 shooting and killing four people in a waffle house in tennessee, this president doesn't even tweet about the heroic deed. is this clearly a race signal from this white house? >> obviously, yes, i think it is

a race signal. but i also think in the case of james shaw jr., there is no way this white house wants to comment because it runs contrary to every message they're trying to put out there around gunds. their message is more guns make people safe. james shaw jr. has proven that not to be the case. he was able to disarm this man with no guns and save lives in the process so i'm not surprised that the white house has not commented on that. but i would say, though, about some of the shootings that happen around the country, this does show a stark contrast between how the press treated president obama, who was required to weigh in on every issue relating to race, particularly around shootings, and how the press treats this administration in the pressroom with sarah huckabee sanders. so when journalists have asked sarah huckabee sanders to weigh in on the different cases around the country, her response has been, oh, well, this is a local issue. we're staying out of it. well, that's not exactly consistent on where this administration stands on

marijuana legislation, for example. so it's another contradiction we see in the administration. i would challenge some of the press corps in that room to press on some of these issues, because we consistently hear from her this is not what the american people care about. well, i'm an american and these are issues that i care about. when i go to my book club or the hair salon or at the grocery store or talk to my family, these are things that we talk about. so it really is a way they view america in a very myopic lens and dismiss some of these conversations that are happening all across the country. they don't have their finger on the pulse of the community and what they're talking about. >> jason, when i hear them saying it's a local issue, and i think that tiffany is right to raise that they don't say that about other issues like the marijuana laws, but i also hear them reverting back to the old states' rights argument, let's decide this state by state, whether it was voting or even going back to slavery.

and that is frightening for those of us that understand american history if our rights or the protection of our rights are now reduced back to a state-by-state basis. >> yeah, rev, it's not like we're going to get any assistance from jeff sessions and this department of justice. let's be clear, donald trump doesn't -- donald trump doesn't like black people. he only wants them there as props for whatever he wants to do. this is a president that will talk about terrorism in france, guns in france, gun issues in england, but will not talk about issues here. he will not talk about the laws associated with issues here. i'll even ego further. even when you think about the soldiers or our troops, he didn't say anything about richard collins. a young college student that was killed ten miles from here. so the idea that the president of the united states picks and chooses what he's concerned about, only focuses on those

issues that matter to him and a very, very small constituency is not surprising. it is race based and always has been with this presidency. anyone who's expecting him to show empathy for anyone other than white americans who are convenient for him in a small polling segment is going to be sorely disappointed. >> tiffany, you cover a lot about what the congressional black caucus is doing and i know the chair of the caucus has come with some very firm positions and legislation. i know they're dealing with mass incarceration, civil rights groups involved, as i said, some of the incidents the last two weeks. i've gone from tallahassee to mobile on these issues for national action network. what are the civil rights groups doing? what are the congressional black caucuses doing? i think people don't understand, we're flying against the face of an administration that is not like the last one, that wants to suck all the air out of the room

so these issues won't be heard, which means we have to double down. >> this is a question i get all the time when i'm across the country. people ask consistently what is the caucus doing, tand there's actually a lot of resistance on the hill but this is a republican-controlled congress. this is consistently bills introduced but they fall flat because democrats are not in control. for example, the congressional black caucus are holding a twitter town hall. a congressman is working on the prison reform legislation that got caught up in the gridlock of congress and wasn't able to move but he was actually working with president trump's son-in-law, jared kushner. so there are bills being introduced. and i would say this is a way that republicans can work with democrats. republicans who claim to support small government, they should want to work on things like prison reform and address things

like mass incarceration. this is a drain on the country's resources. we're seeing some of these things happen where we can agree this is work that can move forward, but there's so much gridlock and congress has moved to a tribal space. people are refusing to cross the aisle and work to get anything done, so unfortunately a lot of this resistance cannot move out of congress. >> jason, can the democrats, therefore, find a way to energize and mobilize their base, including a real coming -- coming to terms really with the need for a major turnout among black voters? in this kind of reactionary phase that we're going through in american politics, are democrats doing enough to really say you've got to come out and we will address your issues and we're not afraid to deal with the race gap in this country? >> of course not, rev.

democrats almost never get that right. look, they're always -- they're always behind. look, thank goodness there appears to be the discussion, the democratic party has moved beyond we've got to convince working class white voters, which was sort of code speech for trump for the last 18 months. but no, the democrats are still having difficulty. we saw that in virginia. we see that in some of the primary discussions happening in georgia. we see that with the primary happening in ohio. you still have a tremendous amount of concern and anxiety in some segments of the democratic party about putting black candidates and black women in particular on tickets, which is what's going to drive turnout. here's the thing, i don't think it's going to matter. i think that democrats are probably going to do well this fall despite themselves. but the most important thing, rev, and this is what people have to understand. yes, it's great if there's a magical blue wave, yes, it's great if it's in the house and senate, but it's the state races that matter. it's flipping your state house,

your state senate, your county prosecutor. they're the ones affecting voting laws. if we get involved at that level it doesn't matter what they say up in the dcc, we'll get some changes done in the state. >> the state houses are important because right behind the midterm elections and the presidential elections is the census and it's the state legislators that will take those census counts and decide the districts' lines. there's where gerrymandering goes in and that's where we know where the decade of american politics and legislation will go. thank you very much, tiffany cross and jason johnson. >> thanks, rev. up next, president trump is thanking this rapper for his high ratings. the controversy surrounding kanye west. we'll be right back. as king midas, i expect things to last a looong time. and so should you. midas has a lifetime guarantee on these parts. that's right. on things like struts, brakes, shocks. all kinds of automobile parts. guaranteed for life. does he turn everything to gold?

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by the way, kanye west must have some power because you probably saw i doubled my african-american poll numbers. we went from 11 to 22 in one week. thank you, kanye. thank you. >> if kanye west wanted publicity for his upcoming album, he certainly had it these

past two weeks. as black people have been scratching their heads, probably some burning their albums over west's tweets praising president trump. who he has referred to as, quote, a brother. in his mind-boggling interview with tmz tuesday in which the rapper suggested that slavery for african people was a choice, he has since tried to clarify his position on twitter, claiming that he's a free-thinker and not subject to political expectations. but his fans are left wondering how the man who famously said president george w. bush did not care about black people is somehow more comfortable with president s-hole. joining me now is democratic strategist asha moody-middle and

margaret breedo. i want to break this into two parts. i want to ask you why you regard what president trump as an outrage because it's factually untrue. he did not double in terms of the poll numbers for blacks. i think he went up a little with black men. black women he did not move at all. so it's a lie what he said. >> it's a straight-up lie. i would like to be generous and say that they like to deal in fuzzy math, but we know trump doesn't do math at all. so a poll came out that wasn't even a real poll that was statistically valid that said that some black men said that they like trump, maybe a few more black men. that didn't have any reflection on the entire african-american community at all. several other polls came out saying actually there's been no change. actually that was a lie. it's funny that he says this lie

at the nra conference because you know that's the home of black people. >> but that's my point, marvette. you as one who has shaped and molded some of the music industry's great artists and superstars, you know that kanye west has tried diligently over the last decade to be a pop artist. a crossover artist. and in many ways donald trump was saying what he said to that guy at a rally when he was running, where's by african-american, because he put kanye in the bag of he impacts black voters. he put him back over, kanye, you're just good for my black artists, which should have insulted kanye. >> it should have insulted kanye. kanye has to realize that his comments and his allowing himself to be used as a pawn in donald trump's administration is very dangerous, very toxic and very poisonous to our community.

donald trump is very strategic. and while kanye has to understand that his brand and intellectual property has made billions of dollars for corporations, and so he certainly has a potent brand, but what's dangerous here is that he is making comments and is allowing himself to be used in a way that is not reflective of the consciousness that his brand has had and embodied since he's launched. so we found ourselves now in a situation where he's making comments and exhibiting behavior that is really not reflective of the creative genius that we all know kanye west to be. so we have to take a step back and not only pray for kanye, but realize that there's got to be an underlying reason for this chosen ignorance that really is playing out in his actions and in his words. >> and i think that's part of the conflict a lot of us have, is that some of us know the creative genius that he's been, respect his music.

some of us have known him, met him or talked to him, his mother and all before passing. and you try to separate that from him being used by donald trump in a cynical way. but then he makes other statements. >> yeah. >> the fact that he says i love donald trump, i vociferously don't understand it, i'm against donald trump's policies, but i can live with you and we can disagree. james brown was like a father to me and he liked nixon and we used to debate about it all the time. but to say that slavery was a choice and martin luther king and malcolm x were too far away in history to be relatable now. when you relate to james brown who was in the same era. the other statements he made is like what? >> here's the challenge that we're having right now. just because kanye west has some intellectual capital doesn't make him an intellectual. he claims to be a free thinker but he is not thoughtful.

so i get really anxious when we die to deitize celebrities who can rap and all of a sudden want to look to them as some civil rights justice leader. the fact that he compared leader. the fact that he compared himself to harriet tubman and gnat turner -- nat turner, he's not leading people. >> just because you are a musical following or theatrical movement, you're not the leader of a movement. when i was growing up in the '60s, i would look up to dr. king, i didn't think the temp tag tempations or gladys knight was new leader. there's a difference between leading the black and a black leader. >> my issue with kanye west is it's okay to align yourself with donald trump with elements that you align with or appreciate it. but don't think you speak for black people as a whole.

and then to make a comment about slavery -- our an cess sorcesto probably reeling and feeling the pain of his comments. but choice is when you can wake up in your million-dollar home, that's a choice. our black men and black women who are being marginalized, oppressed every single day, they don't have a choice in the way they are being treated. so again, his comments were -- lack the intellectual capacity that we know he's capable of exercising. and more importantly -- >> we hope. i don't know if he knows. i'm beginning to wonder, when you say you love trump with all the policies that trump has done and trying to underdo everything obama does. the political judgment is off. but when you start to say slavery was a choice, when, in fact, more people died in the midatlantic trade than in some

data suggests made it. and the fugitive slave laws. and you call that a choice, i have to wonder about your intellect now. >> the thing is he doesn't read. i mean, that's the thing. >> that's why they have the same dragon spirit he described, because neither of them are basing on information or fact or truth. and that is unfortunate that kanye shows himself in that way. >> you shaped a lot of superstars careers, what would you advise kanye if he's watching right now? >> if kanye is using his platform to evoke any change, if you're going to meet with up donald trump, we need to know that you're putting black in america as an agenda point. when you're going to the white house or having your wonderful conversations with trump that our issues and our topics are degree discussed. >> but he also needs to meet with people like you and others

within the movement. my issue is everything he's saying is void of the plight of what black people in this country is dealing with. >> he only needs to talk to other artists who may be right on the issues but they are still or cys artists. >> let's be clear, kanye did nothing to address the plight of black people in chicago. but he accused president obama for not doing anything in chicago. then chance the rapper is like, yeah, i'm giving $100,000 to ament pra. this is not a man connected to anything that has to do with civil rights, anything to do with the movement of black lives, anything that has to do with people other than kanye. and we want to be clear about that. >> if kanye is watching, i think he should go to church, we should pray for him. >> absolutely. >> put our hands on and pray really hard. up next, my final thoughts. e plaque psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis,

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as we continue to look at this president's policies and look at how he relates to the black community, i remember about a month after he was elected he called me and said, al, let's meet. and i have known him over 30 years, i've marched on him, i've disagreed. then he became democrat and came to the national convention twice. then went back in the birtherism

and attacked him saying he was racial language and he said it wasn't. but he said, al, let's meet. i said, i will only meet if i can bring other leaders from national civil rights organizations. oh, i don't know them, i know you. i said, i'm not going to be a photo op and kept saying, he should meet with everyone or i would not meet. well, one of his ministers that defended him got on this stage on my colleague's alex witt's show with me saying, oh, yeah, we'll set up a meeting of all the leaders. we'll do it in black history month. this was december of last year, black history month was this past february. this is from back in december. >> any conversation with al sharpton could have been had and still can be had. let's set it up. let's make it happen. >> and alex challenged him and said, you going to make it happen in february?

well, now it's may. and they are announcing another summit. they are going to now have black athletes and black artists come and have a summit. the white house hasn't said any of this, this is all by his black supporters. we don't need summits, we need policy. we need enforcing the law. when i go down to mobile, alabama, to see a police officer drag her and show her body, that is not asking for anything other than to enforce the law. you do not arrest people unless you have probable cause and don't treat them in an inhumane and vicious manner. when we see an autopsy saying that the cop was shot in the back in sacramento, we don't need a dialogue, we need to enforce the law. those policemen must be held accountable and on and on and on. let's quit playing games of calling for bogus conferences

and bogus summits. let's do something real. that does it for me. thanks for watching. and to keep the conversation going, like us at facebook.com/politicsnation. and follow us on twitter @politicsnation. see you back here next sunday. now, to my colleague, alex witt. >> i remember that conversation so well. it was a saturday. i remember you came in on your day off to have that conversation with pastor darrell scott. all i have to say in the wake of that is actions speak louder than words. you, a man of action, that's for sure, and words. you have them both going on, okay, rev, thank you. good morning to you. i'm alex witt here at the msnbc headquarters. it is 9:00 in the east, 6:00 out west. continuing to clarify, new comments from rudy giuliani defending michael cohen's payment to stormy daniels and insisting the attorney general decemb