this sunday, war footing. president trump changes his team for the coming battle with robert mueller. >> we're all fighting battles. but i love fighting these battles. >> rudy giuliani and flood in, cooperating with mueller out, taking off the gloves in. plus, mayor culpa. the former new york mayor contradicts this claim by president trump. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> with this statement on fox news. >> the president repaid it. he did. >> why did this story change? >> we're not changing any story. >> what happened? >> he started yesterday.

he will get his facts straight. >> this exchange just the latest example of the administration's growing credibility crisis. my guest, stormy daniel's attorney and alan dershowitz. the russian leader interfered with our election and the country remains more divided than it has been in decades. is putin's gamble paying off? i will ask the former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. joining me are danielle pletka. robert costa, kimberly atkins and jon meacham. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. it was in the 1960s during lyndon johnson's presidency that the term credibility gap gained

currency. the difference between what the administration told the public and what actually was true. the term seems particularly relevant again today. we have been told by his doctor that mr. trump would be the healthiest president ever. we were told he fired james comey because of the russia investigation. now we're told he was fired because he refused to say that mr. trump was not a target of the investigation. we had been told president trump knew nothing about the $130,000 payment made by his lawyer to stormy daniels. now we're told the president reimbursed cohen. then we were told giuliani will get his facts straight. the president could not tell us what those facts are at that moment. all presidents stretch the truth. some more than others. the economy is strong.

the president does have a faithful base. could it be that by the time robert mueller issues his findings, no matter what they are, people are too numb to the truth shading and too confused by the doubts mr. trump is irresponsibly sowing to care? >> rudy knows he's a witch hunt. he started yesterday. he will get his facts straight. >> the president trying to explain away troubling statements from his new lawyer rudy giuliani. >> rudy is a great guy. he just started a day ago. rudy just started yesterday. >> he started two weeks ago. the back-pedaling came after giuliani casually confirmed wednesday night on fox news that the president had repaid his lawyer michael cohen the $130,000 cohen paid porn actress stormy daniels in october 2016 to make her story go away. >> funnel through a law firm and the president repaid it. he did. >> cohen told nbc news in february, quote, i used my own personal funds.

neither the trump organization nor the trump campaign reimbursed me for the payment either directly or indirectly. on thursday, giuliani told "the washington post" that cohen was paid by donald trump's personal funds. also on thursday, the president confirmed giuliani's shifting story tweeting that cohen received a monthly retainer. by friday, a walk back. >> when did you change your story? >> we're not change anything story. take a look at what i said. go back and take a look. >> the president referring to this exchange last month on air force one. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> now, "the new york times" reporting that mr. trump did

know of the payment to daniels several months before he denied any knowledge of it to reporters on air force one. on saturday night, giuliani was on the air again trying to clarify. >> even if it was for campaign purposes, if it was to save his family, save embarrassment, it's not a campaign donation. second, even if it was a campaign donation, the president reimbursed it fully with a payment of $35,000 a month that paid for that and other expenses. >> giuliani's debut on friendly media was supposed to kick off a new strategy from the president and his new legal team. >> let me tell you, folks, we're all fighting battles. but i love fighting these battles. >> yesterday by week's end, even many of the president's allies felt the pivot was not going according to plan. >> what the heck? he didn't know. he did know. i love rudy. they better have an explanation for that. that's a problem. >> with some even challenging the president's credibility. >> you didn't know about that $130,000 payment to a porn star until you did. i'm not saying you are a liar. you are a president. you are busy. i'm having a devil of a time figuring out which news is fake. >> joining me from los angeles

is the attorney for stormy daniels. welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> let me start with a big picture question. why is this case the case you are working on, so important to the american people? >> i think it's important to the american people because it centers on a coverup by the president, michael cohen and others relating to the $130,000 payment, what the president knew, when he knew it, what he did about it and now a series of lies that the american people have been told relating to that payment and the other facts surrounding it. >> what are you trying to get out of this case? why should voters still care about this non-disclosure case? i ask that -- miss clifford told her story. we already -- it's already out there. what are you fighting for at this point? >> she hasn't told the entire story. "60 minutes" aired 16 minutes of

a three hour minute. the president and cohen threatened her with extensive damages that they claim are owed to them if she continues to speak out and tell her story. this should matter to the american people because they have the right to be told the truth by their elected officials. they have the right not to be lied to, including on board air force one. and coverups should always matter. to the american people. >> are you trying to win a case or take down a president? >> we're trying to win a case. we're trying to present facts and evidence to the american people. this is a search for the truth. ultimately, the american people and others that are far more educate and powerful than us will decide whether the president is fit to remain in office. >> you said "60 minutes" did three hours of an interview. is there stuff they had to legally leave out? is that what you are implying,

there's more to her story but there's stuff that had to be legally left out of the interview? >> i don't think that there's stuff that, quote, legally, closed quote, had to be left. but there's a host of details surrounding the relationship, the intimidation, the threats that were left out of the piece aired by "60 minutes." their format allowed them to air so much. >> i want you to respond to something rudy giuliani, among the many things he said about this case, but this one in particular was an interview on thursday. he said, if somebody made an allegation against one of my clients that wasn't true and accepted $135,000 to settle it, i know the public may think the settlement may mean an admission of guilty, it's not. if you are taking 5 to $6 million you would have something different. he is implying in accepting the $130,000 that she was a

nuisance, it was a nuisance lawsuit and that what she was claiming wasn't -- may not have been true. if it was true, she would have gotten more money. what do you say? >> it's ridiculous. another absurdity being trotted out to the american people. the american people are smarter than this. the president and michael cohen have prided themselves for years on claiming that they are tough guys, that they are great negotiators. how many times have we heard that? now they expect the american people to believe that a woman

came out of the woodwork, was lying, was not being honest, they had absolutely no reason to believe that this had happened and they just took $130,000 out of their pocket and paid her. i mean, it's absurd. >> why did she accept that figure? you weren't her lawyer then. it was a lawyer that michael cohen works with frequently by the name of keith davidson. why this amount? why did your client accept it? >> well, i think she accepted the payment because she understood that there was going to be an agreement where she was going to accept the money and this was going to go away and there were releases on both sides. there was an agreement not to speak on both sides, not just on her side. there was an agreement by -- there was supposed to be an agreement by mr. trump to give her a full release to leave her alone, to not discuss this. of course, that agreement never came to fruition because he didn't sign the agreement. there are a number of other reasons why the agreement didn't come to fruition. fast forward to february -- march of this year, when michael cohen decides to speak in response to "the wall street journal" article, and they begin spreading lies about my client. >> i understand that.

why did she accept the money at the time? >> for the reason i just answered the question. for the reason i stated. because she understood that there was an agreement. she wanted to get on with her life. she was prepared to operate under that agreement as long as the other side operated under the agreement. >> what's preventing her -- what i don't understand is, for a year -- >> i would like to finish. >> for a year -- did they talk about this? that's what i'm trying to understand. >> i'd like to be able to finish my answer, if i could. she understood that the agreement was going to be honored by both sides and everybody was going to move on. that's not what happened. she understood mr. trump signed the agreement. she only found out early this year that in fact, he had not signed the agreement. the agreement had never come to fruition. in fact, michael cohen then went and violated the confidentiality and began spreading lies about her and what happened. >> what have you learned about keith davidson? how did he end up becoming miss clifford's lawyer? >> well, i mean, we learned a lot about keith davidson. we continue to learn a lot. i don't think there's any question that the relationship between keith and michael cohen was not arm's length. it's unclear as to exactly how close they were. but that was not a traditional relationship among two adversaries. it appears they have had a long history together. they have a history that post-dates and pre-dates the involvement of my client. we're still trying to get to the

bottom of exactly what happened there. >> do you believe that miss clifford was pitched his services under false pretensions? >> i don't want to offer an opinion on that right now. i will say this. there's no question that i would have handled it quite a bit differently. >> how did you come to be representing miss clifford? it's my understanding you said it was a referral. who referred you? >> i'm not going to get into the details of that. i will say this. no political party or anybody that's politically active referred me, if that's what people are suggesting. that's one of the most recent conspiracy theories in an effort to debunk our effort or undercut our effort. people don't seem willing to accept the truth. the truth is that we are pursuing this for all the right reasons. this is a search for the truth. we're going to lay out the facts and the evidence for the american people. >> do you believe your case is somehow connected to robert mueller? has robert mueller's folks reached out to you or only the southern district of new york?

>> i'm not at liberty to discuss who at law enforcement we communicated with. we are cooperating. >> okay. have you been asked to speak to robert mueller? have you or your client been asked to speak to robert mueller's prosecutors? that's not something that others have felt that they couldn't disclose. >> well, others may not have felt that they could or could not disclose it. that's not my position. my position is that we're going to respect the process and we're not going to be providing details on who in law enforcement we speak to and when. >> all right. the attorney for stormy daniels -- stephanie clifford, aka stormy daniels. thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you. joining me now for another perspective is alan dershowitz. he is author of a new book he put out, "trump up." welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> i want to get you to react to something that rudy giuliani, the president's lead attorney, said last night on fox news. here it is. >> even if it was for campaign purposes, if it was to save his family, to save embarrassment, it's not a campaign donation. second, even if it was a

campaign donation, the president reimbursed it fully with a payment of $35,000 a month that paid for that and other expenses. >> i would expect you to provide me legal analysis. but this is the president's attorney trying to provide an explanation. he is providing two different explanations. i have to ask you, is this legal strategy that mr. giuliani pursuing, has this been well thought out? >> i don't think so. i think this was a very bad week for the trump team. it was also a very bad week for the mueller team in light of the judge who rebuked the mueller team for the manafort thing. we now have a judge who is overseeing this and who said americans don't want to see anybody with unlimited power.

the trump team has to speak with a single narrative. it has to be put in writing. this is not the way to handle a complicated case. mr. giuliani may have a point, that is, motives are complicated. the money may have been paid for a variety of motives, to save embarrassment in the family, to help the campaign. it's a close case on whether or not there's any violation. of any election laws. if there are violations, they don't seem to be very substantial. if the president, for example, did pay and didn't report it, it's probably more likely the treasurer is in violation of the law than the president himself. i think -- >> has mr. giuliani actually invited more scrutiny from prosecutors because of what he said? the prosecutors are going, we're either going to get you for not disclosing a campaign loan or it was -- either way, they have actually violated some law. you are right, it can be a technicality, if you want to call it that.

but they're admitting to a violation here. >> i think they're admitting to enough that warrants scrutiny. if you combine that with what the judge said, who said, this is all designed by mueller to try to find evidence to either charge president trump or to impeach president trump. they have developed tactics for trying to do that. it seems to me that the approach last week of the trump team plays into the hands of mueller's tactic to try at any cost to try to find technical violations against lower ranking people so that they can be squeezed. remember the judge made an interesting point. parroting what i have been saying on television, the risk sometimes that prosecutors can not only get somebody to sing, but get them to compose. there are dangers to civil liberties in the approach the judge said mueller is using. this was a bad week for both sides. a good week for america, because americans get the benefit now of a judge who is prepared to look at this from an objective point

of view and to express views that all experienced people know, this is the way prosecutors operate. giuliani knows it, too. he shouldn't be playing into their hands. >> i was going to say, i have to ask you about another thing he said, having to do with james comey. here is what he said. >> he fired comey because comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn't a target of the investigation. he is entitled to that. hillary clinton got that. and he couldn't get that. so he fired him. he said, i'm free of this guy. >> look, i think -- i believe -- i think you said this before on the obstruction part of this, the obstruction case is only as strong as probably the actual conspiracy case itself. and i understand that. did mr. giuliani actually strengthen potentially an obstruction case against the president by declaring that rational as representing the president on television? >> we now have, obviously, two narratives. the president himself said both

on television and in a meeting with the russians that he was motivated at least in part to end the russian probe. i'm sure he was also motivated in part by what comey refused to tell him. motives are complex. that's why motives should never form the basis of a crime. that's why it's wrong to question what a president's motives are when the president acted within his constitutional authority. we don't want to turn motives and analysis of the president's mind into criminal statutes. we have to look at what the president did, not what his motives are. motives are always complex. the payment to stormy daniels and the firing of comey, we see complex motives at work. this can be presented much more effectively as a defense, than it has been presented thus far by the trump team. >> i want to ask about you that in particular when it comes to the questions that mueller wants to ask the president. you have, i think, believed that a sitting president couldn't be compelled to answer questions via subpoena about his actions

while in office. >> about the motives behind his actions. >> i understand that. if mueller wants to question the president about his actions and about his motives before he is in office for everything that took place in the campaign, isn't that a much tougher subpoena for mr. trump's attorneys to fight? >> yes. there are three categories. there's what happened before he was president. that he can fight on judge ellis' ground, that it has nothing to do with the mandate that was given -- >> that's a high bar. >> that's a high bar. the second is actions he took while president that are authorized by the constitution. i think he prevails on that. actions during the campaign and transition period which have quasi-legal protection.

three categories. if they were to fight the subpoena, i think they would have a partial victory, but in the end, they would probably have to answer some questions. i'm sure that's what they're thinking about now. because when you volunteer, at least maybe you can constrain the questions. when you are subpoenaed, a subpoena is broad. your lawyer isn't present. this is a tough decision to make. >> do you believe you enjoy attorney/client privilege with the president? >> absolutely not. >> i only ask that, since -- have you had conversations with the president about this probe? >> i have made it very clear, i've had three conversations with the president since he has been president, all about the middle east, primarily, because i had been advising the white house on the ongoing efforts to a middle east peace process. every conversation i have had with the president was preceded by, don't give me any information that you think is lawyer/client. i'm not going to be your lawyer. that's not the relationship i

have. i'm a civil libertarian who cares deeply, as the judge does, about protecting americans from excesses of civil liberties. that's the position i'm going to maintain. >> where are you with wikileaks? there was a time you did some legal advisory work for them. are you still -- do you still advise wikileaks? >> no. i ended my relationship with them when they became political and started to involve itself in the campaign by leaking materials. my only contact with assange was years ago when he was wanted in sweden and worried about an indictment in the united states. i have no current legal relationship with wikileaks. i did have a relationship with assange many, many years ago. >> i wanted to clear that up. i'm going to leave it there. thanks for coming on and sharing your expertise. >> thank you. when we come back, the panel will be here to break down the latest on the russia

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welcome back. panelists here, robert costa, danielle pletka, kimberly atkins and jon meacham. let me start with your colleague, robert, dan balls and what he wrote friday morning. the larger reaction to everything we have learned. does it bother anyone that president trump has been caught lying, does it bother anyone that the president has been shown to be a liar? that's not somebody who throws the "l" word around. >> one of the best. he brings up an important question. for republicans i'm covering, they do not seem to be breaking with president trump. they have bought the ticket. they're taking the ride. they're sticking with president trump. for those suburban voters who watch this with the misstatements, lies, you do wonder, do the voters who may have went from the middle to president trump in 2016, do they flip back this year? >> danielle, "the wall street journal" editorial page. a dispute over speaking with

special counsel robert mueller, mr. trump should worry americans will stop believing anything he says. >> this should bother us from the standpoint of leadership as americans. we want a president who we can trust. that i think is very separate from the political question that robert brought up, which is what do the american people think for mid-terms. the answer is, they're not listening. this is just so much chatter. who cares about the person you call a porn actress? who cares about all these lawyers and all these people who are primping themselves out on cable tv? sorry. >> that's the part -- from the two interviews, on one hand -- what is this about?

on the other hand, why is the president afraid to tell us what happened? >> it's also this idea that a lot of people still believe that this is some sort of attack on the presidency. they're buying into this narrative that the government, that the fbi, investigators turned into a political operation to attack the president. that is resonating. plus the message landing with some people. we have seen his poll numbers tick up recently. people are getting tired of this. people are -- they don't want to hear about the porn star anymore. it's troubling at a time where simultaneously, this white house has a terrible problem with the truth. it always has. it's getting -- it's exacerbated. you see this division increase. we don't know what the political

impact will be. >> jon? >> it took four years to get mccarthy. it took three years to get andrew johnson. it's a dark moment. i do think at a certain point, you are right, people are not thinking as much about this as the political class. the reason he is president is a lot of people didn't believe what more conventional presidents have said recently. right? he is president because of the ten national tickets, eight had clinton or bush on them. they were saying to washington, if you are going to act like a reality tv show, we will send you a real one. i think the polls -- i'm skeptical of. i know this historically. we know it intuitively. the presidents who get in

trouble in the fullness of time are those who think they can put a fast one past the people. i think this will have -- >> what is that fast one? when i talk to the people closest to president trump. the unemployment rate is below 4%. we have talked with north korea. they fear, as close as allies, that if he moves to impeach or fire rod rosenstein, if he makes a drastic action with regard to the investigation, all of that issues, the policies that are going on, they could fade away and you could have a crisis. that's what animates this white house internally. >> i read something this morning that i thought would make you nuts. i think it's -- because of the cynicism. the best thing the republican party has going for them is their lack of an agenda. the most important boost may be coming from inside his own party in the non-existent agenda. politically, it's vastly preferable to the deeply unpopular legislation that republicans might otherwise be pursuing. his pointing, voters or the democrats don't focus on health care and some of the other economic issues because stormy daniels, the mueller probe is coloring it all and republicans aren't paying a price for not doing anything. >> you are totally right.

that does drive me crazy. now is a moment of great opportunity for congress that they have completely squandered. they got the tax bill, but they have done almost nothing else with their majority, the republicans haven't. of course, this is -- it's true, this is a great distracter for the democrats as well. they don't have an agenda either. the american people will see it as a scumbag and vote for us. the republicans are in the same place. they are doing nothing. >> harry truman said in his retirement that we get the government we deserve. i think that's important here. i think we have to think -- >> we made this. over 20 years, didn't we? >> at what point are politicians more mirrors of the country than molders? far more often, they mirror it. right now, 17% of the country trusts the federal government to do the right thing. that's a number that's pre-trump. i think that it's a broader question here. i think trump is the apotheosis. >> it's a question of trust. >> morale in the west wing, it

was my understanding that not being able to stick to the stormy daniels story was going to undermine a lot of morale. a lot of people lied for the president on this. it bothers them. we have been hearing it. how is the president's -- how is that playing inside the west wing? >> inside the west wing, there's the west wing and then there's president trump. they feel like they're isolated from their own president, with the giuliani situation this week, it was the president communicating with giuliani, not communicating with the broader staff. that worries his white house. it's the president as his own communication director, his own strategist. >> how is that different than the inauguration day? the president has laid out his own agenda. the people around him have to catch up. the facts are never relevant. so i don't see how this is that much different. why have you seen the turnover you have seen within the white

house? >> the 26th floor he worked at? the 26th floor is back. i think that's what we know. when we come back, vladimir putin's meddling. what does he want from the u.s. and president trump? why did he retaliate? michael mcfaul joins me next. c. so to breathe better, i go with anoro. ♪ go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way, with anoro." ♪ go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma. it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems.

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welcome back. vladimir putin is being inaugurated for a fourth term as russia's president tomorrow. he is taking no chances. hundreds of anti-putin protests were detained yesterday ahead of the inauguration. in moscow, people chanted russia without putin and down with the czar. putin overwhelmingly won a discredited election in which some opposition candidates were barred from running. putin interfered with the election in 2016. joining me to talk about what putin wants is michael mcfaul, former ambassador to russia. welcome back to the fall. >> great to be here. great to see you in person. >> nice to see you in person. we were joking, we were going to force the stanford background so people knew that you always travelled with your own backdrop. putin -- this decision to come after the united states, is this something he stumbled into? or was this something that it

just grew -- he grew angrier and angrier and decided, it's time to retaliate? >> these tactics he has practiced for a long time inside russia. right? disinformation, using videos against various political actors. i experienced it myself as ambassador in 2012. a lot of disinformation about me. the tactics he has done before. >> what was the most successful disinformation you had to work to undermine? >> the narrative that barack obama sent me to russia to overthrow vladimir putin. that appeared about every couple

of days. it was very intense during his last presidential campaign. they would splice things that i had written and take out not and make that appear. they would show the back of my head at a rally to make it look as if i was coordinating the rally. whatever we did on twitter, on television, actually sometimes with president obama talking to president putin, one on one to say knock this off, we were ineffective. >> it seems as if we have heard why did he want to do this? first it was hillary clinton. that was one. one of the things that we don't talk about enough is his anger about the olympics and the doping scandal and the embarrassment that brought. then there's the panama papers, the disclosure from this law firm that essentially conveniently exposed the oligarchs of russia, including putin's wealth, frankly of wealthy people around the world, everybody except americans. >> conveniently. you are right, all of those things built up. the turning point was after the fall of the president of ukraine. we didn't have anything to do with that. he blamed up.

he blamed the cia for overthrowing his partner in ukraine. that's when he said, to hell with these guys. i'm done dealing with these americans. i'm going to strike back. that's when he takes crimea. then he goes into eastern ukraine. then he decides to go on the offensive. all of those events you describe is why he decides to go on the offensive and use tactics that he had used in russia against us here in the united states. >> does he think that he is seeing results? >> that's a tough question. candidate trump promised a lot of deliverables, as we used to say in the government, to the kremlin. he said he would look into recognizing crimea as part of russia. he didn't say a word about democracy and human rights. they expected a big payoff. there was a lot of champagne drunk on election night in moscow. he hasn't delivered on that, because the trump administration has actually continued a lot of policies of the obama

administration. however, our chaos, our arguing amongst ourselves, the withdrawal of american leadership around the world, all of those things are good things for vladimir putin. so the trump presidency in that i think has been good for vladimir putin. >> john mccain in his book believes you gotta -- that we have not been tough enough on putin. he writes, we have cyber capabilities, too. i would argue, looks like the panama papers, that didn't work. what would work with putin? >> whether it works or not, wait and see. lots of demonstrators yesterday. most of those people were talking about corruption. by the way, a lot of those kids were kids. they were arresting 12-year-olds in russia. that's something new. i agree with senator mccain. i want to underscore, it's not something i wanted -- my book is about trying to avoid that.

but we need a policy to push back, deter putin. cooperate when we can and must on things like arms control. but basically, contain his behavior abroad. >> i want to talk about the iran nuclear deal. we will get a decision a week -- approximately, a week from this weekend, whether the president will pull out or not. former secretary of state john kerry was working with -- talking with former allies or allies of the united states, his former counterparts in other countries. what would secretary of state kerry have thought if condoleezza rice was back seat driving u.s. policy with foreign dignitaries? >> he probably wouldn't like it. we probably would have noted it. but it happens all the time. >> inappropriate? it's -- what's this line here of where you -- >> it's a good question. >> what is the line?

>> i don't have a good question to that. we are a free society. we don't all pledge allegiance to the president. >> he is not lobbying pompeo. he is working with france. >> you know who my first guess was? henry kissinger. after we had breakfast, he went to see vladimir putin. do you think he was saying, i think the obama administration is doing a great job, you need to engage with the president? i don't think so. that's fine. the good thing that henry used to do and i think still does, he would report to us and tell us about his impressions of vladimir putin. i hope secretary kerry is doing that as well. >> with secretary pompeo? >> yes. >> basically -- >> you are in there. >> russia relations since the fall of the berlin wall. >> yes. you are in there. we shared some of this history. >> we did, 2009, the ritz. we have been to that ritz. >> together. >> it was a very nice hotel overlooking the kremlin. when we come back ahead of tuesday's primaries, many republican candidates have

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welcome back. data download time. if republicans are going to hang on to control the senate, they're going to need to win back states like west virginia and indiana. we're two days away from the big primaries in those states to see which republican will have the chance to unseat two red state

democrats. right now, the gop primaries are turning into fights to see who can prove they love trump the most. like in indiana, he donned a make america great hat in a tv hat. candidates borrowing from the trump playbook on mueller. >> i think it needs to come to an end. it's a witch hunt. >> end this investigation now. >> when you know what really goes on in the department of justice, you wonder where this country is going. >> there's a reason for this. donald trump won west virginia by 42 points. he won indiana by 19. significantly outperforming mitt romney. here is the thing, we don't know if these enthusiastic trump voters are going to come out in a general election if trump isn't on the ballot. that hasn't been the case in either the alabama senate race or the congressional special election in pennsylvania where

democrats were able to flip a republican-held seat. nor was it the case in virginia where democrats ended up running away with a race for governor that most thought was going to be closer. let's not forget, 2016 was just as much about hillary clinton as it was about donald trump. it's not going to be easy to paint either of the joes as clinton's clones if she's not on the ballot. speaking of the joes, manchin won in a landslide and donnelly won by six. in a year where romney won by ten points. the point, trump won over blue collar people who couldn't stomach clinton. all politics in 2016 has been about the president. the names on the ballot matter. there's only one donald trump. we will be back in a moment with end game and an american hero. >> coming up, endgame and postgame brought to you by

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because it gets us back on the topic, i want to quickly talk about the fact that on tuesday is the first multi-state primary day. we're learning about the huggin we're learning about the hugging of donald trump and trumpian like figures. there is nobody who probably more is emblematic of this cookie candidates than this gentleman in virginia don blankenship who served time. >> the war to drain the swamp and create jobs for west virginia people has begun. i will ditch mitch for the sake of the kids. >> now, a cookie candidate is not new in a race, but a cookie candidate with a chance to win is new, at least in west virginia. republicans are fighting this guy. suddenly he's in the lead. the more attention they've given him the better he's doing. >> he makes racist offensive comments regarding senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. it is the republican party --

since obama's term in office, ha that has been unable to control its primary process. it went to the senate races in 10, 12, 14, 16 and now again in 2018. >> go ahead. >> ways going say it is a test kitchen of sort of these races in a trump, post-trump world. this is a trump state. it's a place where he won handily. he look at someone like roy moore. roy moore almost won. you have folks saying, i can take this trump message. i'm not a pedophile. >> this guy served time e. wasn't a pedophile, but this one served time for people who died during his mismanagement in a coal mine. >> we spent many, many years railing against a smoke filled room. political parties would pick people. when political parties pick people this stuff didn't happen. this is what elevates the roy moores, the blankenships, the jeremy corbins in the u.k., the ability to engage in a populist

message and they're complete whack jobs once they get in the job. >> you wrote a book. it connects to all this. the conversation we all have, the point of your book i think is to make some of us feel bert. we've been through this before. we'll get through this. and you highlight five periods of our time where this fear mongering was working. >> sure. >> and in the moment it looked like it was working, but let me ask you this. how do you know we've actually -- you're sort of implying we hit bottom now. do you think we real have i? >> we're awfully close. there are four or five forces that have saved the republic at various points. the presidency, the congress, the press, the courts, the people. in this case -- >> discredited, discredited, discredited, discredited. >> down to the courts of the people and some parts of the press, exactly. if we have been having this panel in 1866, and you looked good then, we would have been saying, oh, my god, andrew johnson is opposing the 14th and 15th amendments.

woodrow wilson is cracking down 400 newspapers. joe mccarthy is leading the terrorist -- red hunting charge. in my native region 50 years ago we had functional apartheid in the south. we do get better, but it requires the protest, it requires the resistance. it requires these conversations. >> his book is infused with optimism. i think that comes through in the book. america has been through so much. when i'm out there was a reporter and you're meeting people. people are going out their days, they're not fighting with each other every momt. this country moves forward. >> we're going to get through it, but we don't -- one of the things that your book struck me on is are we moving fast or slow in our evolution? >> we're moving much faster. i mean, i think, i think -- you know, information technology has transformed the speed. but i do think the one thing that you say, which is so resonant and true -- firster of all, america does have a soul. and second, the american people are not distracted in the same

way by the things we talk about every sunday. >> and we have to remember, we will get through it but there will be damage. if you look at our history, there are vestiges of everything from the fights that we've fought. it's how bad the damage will be. >> i have to say, john, every moment in here is infused with race. every moment, every rough moment we've had, in some ways it's some version of race. >> unquestionably. it is our original sin. the constitution itself is a document that saved us. it's a human document. it recognizes appetite and ambition. they would be stunned it took this long to have a president like this. if you said 2016, they would say pretty good. >> someone might have thought andrew jackson qualified for that, but -- >> different sermon for a different sunday. what the document says is we are on a journey to a more perfect union, not a perfect one.

>> before we go, we heard spr somebody we haven't heard from in a long time. meaning john mccain. heard his voice and we're hearing from him via his book. first i want to just play the excerpt that they released from the audio of his new book. >> i don't know how much longer i'll be here. maybe i'll have another five years. maybe with the advances of oncology, they'll find new treatments for my cancer that will extend my life. maybe i'll be gone before you'll hear this. i'd like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. we're citizens of a republic made of shared ideals, forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmitts that tormented the old one. even in times of political kay turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it. >> an optimistic tone john mccain is trying to strike. >> the nice thing, an expression that's gotten over used in this era, but john mccain really is a great american. >> i started reporting on

capitol hill in 2009 right after he lost the 2008 presidential campaign. watching him up close, you see this spirit and he doesn't quit. the guy does not quit. >> kim letter by, it's interesting we're learning in the book he's not settling scores, but he is trying to appease those critics about sarah palin. and he says, i wish -- in my gut i wish i would have picked joe lieberman. doesn't trash sarah palin at all in it, but for the first time saying i wish i picked somebody else. >> it doesn't say it would have made him win. if he's going to lose, he wished he had done it on his own terms rather than someone else's. >> the here's something about john mccain. the night he lost the presidency, he alluded to booker t. washington being invited to the white house. senator kaine has a sense of history and he made history. >> one of the great concession speeches really of our time. anyway, thank you all. before we go, quick programming note. tonight on "dateline," lester

holt has an exclusive interview with the rapper meek mill in his first interview being released from prison. he talks about his decades long time in the criminal system. that's all we have for today. thanks for watching and remember, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: you can see more "end game" and "post game" sponsored by boeing on the "meet the press" facebook page. if you have a garden, you know... weeds are low-down little scoundrels. with roundup's sure shot wand, you don't need to stoop to their level. draw the line. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to pinpoint those pesky bedfellows.

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that skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and customer service are critical to business success. like the ones we teach here, every day. in washington today, the spotlight is squarely on the president's legal troubles. >> the president trying to explain away troubling statements from his new lawyer rudy giuliani. >> when did the president know about that hush money payment to stormy daniels? >> this was a very bad week for the trump team. >> he's exposed president trump to possible prosecution for two crimes. >> as far as i'm concerned, it's a nothing burger. >> giuliani tries to clean up a potential mess he made for his clients. >> the president doesn't age knowledge meeting stormy daniels, correct? >> gee, i'm not involved in the daniels thing so i don't know. in terms of what you mean by met her.