tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC May 9, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT
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reports. the president's pick to head the cia gets pressed about her role in the torture of terror detainees. follow the money. the attorney for stormy daniels laying out a trail of bread crumbs that lead straight from russia to donald trump's personal lawyer. north korea releasing three prisone prisoners. the president says he will be at andrews air force base to welcome them home at 2:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. good day. i'm andrea mitchell with some fast moving developments p. discussing the timing of that upcoming summit. right now three americans are heading home. their freedom from north korea imprisonment orchestrated by mike pompeo and the confirmation hearing for gina haspel.
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the president's nominee to replace secretary pompeo at the cia. >> were these the right thing to do? are they consistent with american values fundamentally? what do you believe? >> senator, i believe very strongly in american values and america being an example to the rest of the world. that is why i support the fact that we have chosen to hold ourselves to a stricter moral standard. >> that's about congress and all of us. i want to know what you think. >> i think we should hold ourselves to a stricter moral standard and i would never allow cia to be involved in coercive interrogations. >> where was that moral compass at the time? >> let's break it all down with nbc intelligence reporter and nbc white house correspondent kristen welker.
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the former director of national counter terrorism center. welcome all. first to you, over at the hearing, i just came from over there. we've been watching it tolgt. they will fou go into closed sessions. she had some tough questioning. i wanted to play a bit of senator warner, who is the vice chair of the committee asking her about that period of enhanced interrogations otherwise known as torture. >> do you believe the program in terms interrogation program was consistent with american values? >> senator, as we sit here today, and with some distance between us and the events of 9/11, the congress and indeed our nation have had an opportunity to have a debate about the interrogation standards we want to use as the
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united states of america. we have decided to hold ourselves to a stricter moral standard. >> if this president asked you to do something that you find morally objectional, even if there is an olc opinion, what will you do? will you carry that order or not? we're entrusting you in a very different position if you're confirmed. i need to know your position. >> my moral compass is strong. i would not allow cia to undertake activity if i thought-immoral even if it was technically legal. >> those were the key questions. she's done very well for someone who has never testified in public before. she's worked for 30 years in the shadows. what is your take assessing how the committee is leaning right now? >> the first remarkable thing about this hearing is here we are at a time where the president has pulled the united
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states out of the iran deal. making a deal with north korea and those subjects didn't come up at all. this hearing was entirely a referendum on and questions about her actions 15 years ago after 9/11 involving what some people believe was the torture, enhanced interrogation techniques applied to al qaeda detainees. she walked the fine line. she said some of the things that democrats were looking for her to say. one thing she wouldn't do is acknowledge her conduct and the conduct of her colleagues was immoral or was wrong. she's said we decided as a society we're not going to do that anymore. the law says these techniques are prohibited but she wouldn't really comment and she declined to answer many questions hamed at getting her to pass judgment on the morality of that conduct. just before we came on the air senator jack reed who is the
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ranking democrat on the armed services asked what if terror boarding had one of your operatives, almost channelling john mccain who was tortured in vietnam and opposes nomination over the issue of torture to get her to comment on the equivalency there. she said it's not compare to cia operatives to terrorists. she's not apologizing for that period in our history which many believe is a dark chapter. >> we expect to hear in senator mccain. he's expected to weigh in on this. kristen welker, the problem she's having if she has a problem here is this president was elected during the campaign saying he would do worse than water boarding endorsing
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torture. >> reporter: absolutely. that's why you can anticipate that critics would latch on to the fact she wouldn't weigh in on the morality of torture. she did though say it's not clear that it works. she did get valuable information from terror suspects through the tactics that were deployed while she was serving in those previous roles that are now under scrutiny. i think you're absolutely right. that continues to be something that this administration faces tough questions about. president trump has walked back some of those comments once taking office because he said he's been advised by those close to him including his defense secretary that those types of tactics aren't effective. it's one of those reasons her confirmation is facing such an uphill battle. one of the reasons she's looking for support. at tend of last week she indicated she might not want to go through with this to protect the agency.
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she was convinced to continue on. she does have bipartisan support in some quarters within the cia and the president making that phone call personally to her. urging her to stay many this provepr proce process. now we're seeing why this is a rocky road for her. >> you were in charge of the counter terrorism center. you know the cross currents she was facing as the first person since william colby in the 70s from the clandestine service to be nominated to head the cia. how should she handle this and should she be confirmed? >> i think she did a really outstanding job. in transparency, i know her. i worked with her when she was at the agency. i think very highly of her. i think this is a very important moment because gina was the first person who has testified really in 17 years about a little bit about what it was like in the moment. what the requirements were, what
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the law need, the department of justice said they could do then. i disagree a bit with ken and kristen. i think she did an excellent job of saying upon reflection this isn't what we should be doing today. that's an enormous statement. it would have been a big statement for john brennon in the obama administration. i think she understands what the political imperative was. it was encouraged by those leaders. i think a lot of us as americans and gina say that wasn't the right moral standard.
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she really wiped that aprehe thinks away for me. i think it was an important moment for the cia and the country to start to understand how this is evolved over past 17 years. >> i take that in because having sat in the room for the last couple of hours, charlie savage, i agree that she was very forceful. this is someone that we never heard from her before. i never heard her voice having covered the agency on and off over the years. i've met some of the people referred to, jose rodriguez who was her boss. i had never met her. i didn't know what to expect. you were reporting exclusively that kalid wanted to weigh in today. i asked a couple of senators
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about that going in. they said we don't want to hear from him. he's not gotten clearance to issue a statement. is that correct? >> that's right. the importance of this is we in the public don't know what he's doing after 2002. it's all classified what she was up to in 2003 and on. we don't know whether she had anything to do with ksm torture or not. what's odd about this is no one is fan of ksm. putting his hand up and saying i have some information i'd like to give to the senate committee but it does look like the judge is not going to rule on that in time for this hearing to have public comment. >> i want to play a little bit of joe mansion committee member on his way in.
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i asked him exactly that. >> he wants to issue a statement? >> he has no voice in this process. you've done what you done. that's my advice to him. he can keep his mouth shut. >> he should keep his mouth shut. >> ksm. >> on the hearing and the whole issue. >> i think mike lighter homicide this right. i was here watching some people who aren't foreign policy geek, who aren't intelligence offers who have nothing to do with this business.
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they said to me i think she's doing well. she seems very sincere. i think that's an important point about gina haspel. she's a professional that came across in the hearing. i think to elaborate a bit on what michael lighter said, i think she got the balance just right in terms of correctly characterizing the world of 2002. i think in a fair way and the world of 2018. the very delicate line she has to walk here was to acknowledge the consensus today both in the congress and i assume in the country but at the same time acknowledge that her colleagues back in 2002 and 2003 were doing honorable work that produced good results that help keep the country safe. that's a very fine line to walk. i think she did it quite
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successfully. if i can take one more moment. part of what she reflects but doesn't directly say is that that consensus back then touched the congress's well. the officer who came into my office to describe the briefing this officer gave to the senate intelligence committee was a bit shocked. the officer told me basically thai they're telling me do what you have to do. i say a bit shocked because the agency's posture then is we have legal guidance here. we have to be within the law and be careful. we've all moved beyond that. i think everyone has. there's a new consensus in the country. an important thing she said, i thought was we're no longer have this terrible threat staring us in the face in the measure and
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scope that it stared us in the face in 2002. that's within reason we have moved on. i think she got that balance just right. i think she reflected the consensus in the cia, in the congress and i think in the country and that's kind of an important moment for democracy. >> well, you raised a good point that michael raised add well. it was bipartisan support in closed sessions from the members of oversight committee for exactly what was going on. that's a tough test from the president who does not observe legal or factual norms on a lot of issues. >> it's as undoubtedly more challenging if not more
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challenging than john or i experienced with the presidents we served. i think what she said here today illustrated some ability to do that. gina, please give us your assessment of iranian compliance with the nuclear deal. >> that's right. >> how would you explain that to the president? the president said something yesterday in his speech and largely ignoring what the u.s. intelligence community has said. >> mike pompeo testified to in his own confirmation hearing
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before the foreign relations committee. that's one of problems here. the senate calendar. they had two votes coming up at noon. they recessed for those votes. they're going back into closed classified session but we'll never know what went on in that session. as was pointed out, no questions about korea with the hostages returning. what should we be doing with kim jong-un. we do we know about the level of nuclear and missile development. all of these questions and iran. >> reporter: that's right. you heard a number of moments during that briefing which gina haspel was firm. that's classified. i can't discuss it here. there's a lot more that will be at the fore front when she goes into that classified briefing. you're right. it comes against this really remarkable backdrop. the fact that the dedetainees a on their way home with the secretary of state. his meeting with kim jong-un
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will not take place at the dmz but he will announce the time and location he says within about three dies. that's very significant. coming home, potentially clearing the way now for that summit to take place. >> we'll have to leave it there. we'll have a lot more coming up on north korea and on this summit. our thanks to michael lighter to charlie savage, kristen welker. still ahead, the money trail. the attorney for stormy daniels tries to connects the dots between the president's personal attorney and a russian oligarch.
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stunning new allegations today from michael avenatti, the attorney for stormy daniels that a company with ties to russia may have reimbursed that hush money payment made to daniels on behalf of trump. avenatti is claiming that michael cohen received half a million dollars in months after the 2016 election. alleging the money came from a ties to russian oligarch viktor
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vekselberg. this morning michael cohen disputes allegations. >> good morning. >> how you doing today? >> doing great. thank you. >> any comment about michael avenat avenatti? any response? >> his documents is inaccurate. >> how do you feel about you may have changed an election? >> we should note that nbc news has reviewed financial documents that appear to support avenatti's account of the transaction. he has a new book coming out called messing with the enemy. great title. you've looked at these
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documents. what's your take away from claims about cohen and the cohen cash? >> it raises a lot of raises a lot of interesting questions. they will be trying to figure out what was the real source of the money assuming that this documents went into this consulting account. was it this company? was it the russians? where does the money really originate from? they're going to follow that money trail. there's lots of allegations now but you have to trace the money backwards. that's what they are doing and probably have been doing for quite a while now. what were they for? what was the purpose?
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were there for some kind of consulting services which seems very sketchy, for lack of a better legal term. that's the heart of question and the heart of the mueller investigation. >> in fact, one of the questions that we have is what about vekselberg. this oligarch that was interviewed. any warnings about search and seizu seizure. >> this is an individual, he's one of the wealthiest people in russia. his connections to the russian state are debatable.
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depends on what you talk to and what the account is from. what we also see is someone who appeared on the soonanctions li very recently. the way influence usually advistends to happen is through compromise. it comes from relationships. we talk about the details of the dossier at times but also through money and what we see happening here is we see money flowing in which seems to be some sort of access or influence to the president. we see money coming from the president into the same count and money going out to quell someone from talking about potential relationships with the president. it's a very damaging situation and it's very hard to parse out how this works. if it wasn't for legal work and for lobbying work then what was this money for? it seems to be trying to buy access or influence into the white house. >> avenatti was raising the very questions last night as you both
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know. michael cohen is not known as a stellar lawyer or an expert on some of the issues of the companies that were putting money into this account. what was his expertise on pharmaceuticals or on at&t's business. let's watch a bit of avenatti last night on last word with lawrence. >> the big question is this. all this money comes into this account. we have reason to believe that it didn't all go to michael cohen individually. michael cohen needs to disclose where the balance of that money went. if it went to donald trump or the trump organization, and if michael cohen was part of a scheme to sell access to the president of the united states, that would be rather shocking development but i don't think that is out of realm of possibility at this point. >> is this clearly what the mueller people are looking at? is this part of the investigation? >> i think so. obviously if we're talking about russian money coming in at or
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around the time of election to someone so close to donald trump, this is exactly the kind of collusion or possible conspiracy. i'm not saying that's been proven yet but this sets off red flags. one thing i wanted to add about buying influence to the president, most people probably are not aware that federal bribery law is very narrow. paying someone to make an introduction to someone like donald trump to get access is actually in most circumstances not in and of itself a crime. what you need is to pay to get access and then get that politician or that elected official to do some kind of official act in exchange. that's how you get a federal bribery charge. i'm not saying there aren't other possible charges here but i want to be careful when people throw around this term paying for access. it's dirty. it looks bad.
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the public should care about it but in terms of a federal crime, we have to be careful because there are really certain elements that prosecutors would have to meet to charge that. >> even became more narrow after came on overturning the conviction of the governor of virginia. >> that's right. >> there's a statement i want to read from at&t. one of the companies that did provide money. they say that essential consulting was one of several firms we engaged in early 2017 to provide insiekts into understanding the new administration. they did not legal or lobbying work for us. the contract ended in december 2017. there's also a statement from novartis. they were contacted in 2017 by lawyers from the special counsel's office regarding the company's agreement with essential consultants. they cooperated fully and provided the information
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requested. novartis considers this matter closed. as mimi pointed out there's not a law broken but it does scream of all kinds of insider swampy behavior to have michael cohen suddenly being paid for representation. he never filed as a lobbyist for these companies or for any foreign agent. >> that's right. for campaign that noted itself as draining the swamp, this still looks very much like a swamp. i think what's complicating this factor is you have these payments going out and are now part of a massive public debate about hush money paid to the stormy daniels case for a nondisclosure agreement. i'm sure these companies didn't know this was the same company doing those sorts of payments. it's a confluence of all of these things that will come together. this was all happening after the election at a time when the mueller investigation was fully
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under way. any normal administration and any extension would be very caution about their associations and any sort of influence that might appear on the surface not to be great. just to have the appearance of that at a time when you're under such scrutiny is very careless and really just silly. it's hard to imagine anyone would think it's a good idea and you're trying to rally the country and mover forward on policy agenda. >> that's a very good point. thank you both so much for your expertise today. coming up, the journey home. how the release of three men prison noers is helping set the tone for the summit with kim jong-un. at ally, we're doing digital financial services right. but if that's not enough, we have more than 8000 allys looking out for one thing: you. call in the next ten minutes...
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said they are in good health given what they have gone through. he will finalize a date. joining me now is chief global correspondent bill. we have long been waiting for them to come home. it's a gesture of good will. sense of better climate going into this summit. the president said in two or three days he'll be able to say where the summit will be held but it won't be at the dmz which is surprising. that's what many of us had thought. >> thaes realt's really interes. th that was the word for the last week. other places were mentioned. we will no, says the president, within three days. as something that sets the tone for the summit, these three men are not out of north korea and it's worth remembering they are the last of 16 americans who
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have been held as prisoners by the north since the 1990s. men wh weo were used as pawns t get americans attention. clearly this release is a confidence building act by the north koreans. it is hard to see how that summit could have gone ahead with the three u.s. men as bargaining chips. mike pompeo said a summit would have been more difficult. south korea says the release will help the upcoming summit. the date and time, as we've said, the president saying that will be announced within three days. pompeo was on the ground for around 13 hours. he tweeted he had productive meetings with pyongyang with kim jong-un. he made progress. he talked to him for about 90 minutes and he's phrasing today's release as a diplomatic victory for trump. that's why the president wants to be seen to welcome them home
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at 2:00 in the morning. the family of one of three say they are very grateful and they thank president trump for engaging directly with north korea. the president is highlighting the success of his diplomacy. that's day after what supporters consider another great success and a campaign promise fulfilled as the end of the iran deal. others in the u.s. and france, germany and britain consider it a very bad deal. the president very happy to celebrate two big foreign policy events and this perhaps the defining month of his presidency so far. there's statement from the family of otto warmbier who was imprisoned. the student imprisoned without any real reason that any could ascertain and returned only to die within a day or so. he was in such terrible trade.
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on the release of the three americans for north korea. we're happy for the hostages and their families. we miss otto. obviously, this is an exciting moment for those families. a sad one for the warmier's. we're going the wait to hear where the summit will be held. stay tuned. thank you very much. we'll have coverage at 2:00 this morning at andrews air force base. one of us, myself, might be there. coming up, crisis averted. republicans avoid worse case scenario in key primary prlaces. what does it mean for november? . on my tempur-pedic, the sleep i get is better than any other mattress i've ever tried. i recommend my tempur-pedic to everybody. the most highly recommended bed in america. now ranked highest in customer satisfaction with mattresses by jd power, and number one in comfort, support, and value. there's no better time to experience the superior sleep of tempur-pedic.
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president trump and the republican party are breathing a sigh of relief after averting political disaster in the closely watched west virginia senator republican primary. it was still a tough night for washington insiders. steve, i don't know what you get any sleep but what are the big take aways from last night late night. >> we can sleep on non-election day. >> okay. >> let's dissect what happened. you mentioned west virginia. the headline. blankenship not going to be the republican nominee. this will be one of the premiere senate races in the country.
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democrats trying to get control. republicans trying to hang on. joe mansion now against morrisey. going to have a lot to say about who controls the senate. a story that did not get a lot of attention. democrats poured a lot of money into this race trying to stop jenkins. they kind of wanted blankenship. they also didn't want jenkins do be the nominee. they thought he would be the strongest. this is where jenkins was strong. the southern third of west virgin virginia. this was his congressional district. west virginia very pro-trump state. he won it by 42 points. joe mansion has managed to win this state. why has he managed to win this state. the last time he had really competitive race, he won by about ten points. his strongest area of the state was the south. the siem place where evan jenkins ran up the score last
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night represents in dong congress, this is where mansion has the most cross over voters when he's won elections in west virginia. a lot of democrats said that will be a problem if jenkins is the nominee. his strength is more northerly. we'll see if that an issue in the fall. the other big senate race that was set up last night in indiana. this may become the most competitive senate race. one of the most competitive. it's a story we have seen in some ways before. two republican members of congress. he defended handedly here. this outside repeal, we have seen some outsiders win primaries before who have a lot of baggage. who become unelectable in the general election. we'll see what happens with braun. on paper he's looking like a pretty strong general election candidate. this is a state that donald trump won by 19 points.
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also a state joe donnelly who braun will challenge, a lot of republicans think his win in 2012 was a fluke because he had the weak republican candidate. doesn't steam have some of that baggage we have seen with other outsiders. we talk about control of the senate this fall. west virginia will be a big story. indiana set up right now to be one of the prime, if not the prime republican pickup opportunities. >> of course, in west virginia joe mansion was the governor before. he has statewide appear and that may be how he mansions to survivor. a very tough year in state that whent so overwhelmingly pro-trump. great reporting. thank you so much. >> sure. coming up, stop the presses. president trump's new threat to the media. we have to scoop coming up next. (vo) i was born during the winter of '77. i first met james in 5th grade.
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let's get the inside scoop from associated press white house reporter and msnbc political analyst and ruth marcus, washington post deputy editorial page and msnbc contributor. jont attack against "fake news," and a threat from the president to lift press credentials? >> right. in practical terms we assume that means take away press passes for the white house itself. those are us who are in and out of the building every day, many time as week. that is important access for the american people to show them how their government works. this is not the first time the president railed against us. he put us, made the media part of the story in sort of an unprecedented way. i covered his campaign in 2016. you could bank on it a couple time as night, gesture to us at the back of the hall and incite
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others to boo us. to cut off press access, try to undermine it in this way is undemocratic and a concern for people and the white house correspondents corporation put out statement saying they would, of course, strongly oppose any move by the president to take away any press access or press passes. >> jonathan, you and ruth know, back in the day when we were both covering the white house on a daily basis, ruth, several reporters did not come from traditional media and were controversial. on either the right or the left or somewhere kind of presenting their own unique ways, and the the press settings said they wouldn't lift the press passes no matter how comfortable it became because they didn't want to judge who's a legitimate reporter. that was not the job of the white house. ruth, now he's jumping into it. >> threatening to jump into it. remember, it was some time ago that he talked about revoking licenses. questioning licenses. now he's talking about
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credentials. i -- maybe i'm being optimistic today but i tend to think it's more of a threat than a reality. but it's a threat we should pay attention to, because it is chilling and it does suggest, as jonathan said, this continuing willingness to go after the press. this time not just with rhetoric but with actions. i do think that if i were one of the president's advisers i would tell him that, that would be a step too far and he can rail all he wants, but maybe just withhold the action, and see if it has some kind of chilling effect on us. hint, it won't. but we'll see. i'm going to stay calm until he does something. >> and melania trump, jonathan, complaining about what she's calling opposition media after the rollout of her initiative. a cyberbullying campaign calling -- releasing a
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statement, a familiar flet gopae as new. talking about kids online, and obama era fdc from its packet in 2014. look at the documents, covers are almost identical with slight changing to the smartphone graphics making them look less like a sam sang galaxy and more like an iphone x. obviously she's not happy reporters are pointing that out. >> no. in this case, the east wing taking terms from the west wing. surprising, an assault by the first lady. an initiative many, many months in the making. the part meant to combat cyberbullying has always been met with, let's say, surprise reactions, considering that the who she is married to and the often cyberbullying tactics of the president. this is something that she and
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her staff has really tried to get together. they want to make this an initiative she can be sort of the public face of and, yes, sort of an embarrassing gaffe that they took so obviously lifted that document from the obama era initiative and i think this is her sort of lashing out. this is her attempts to, you know, borrow a tactic from her husband and, again, try to deflect any blame and make it about us and not her own perhaps misstep. >> and peter alexander has been reporting that the president is going to be having dinner with members of the foreign relations committee and republican leaders. we don't know if democrats will be inviteda dinner meeting to discuss north korea. so -- this obviously right before -- up until he goes out to andrews. we don't know how late they're going to go, but this is what they want to focus on right now. taken their stand on iran. it's controversy with a lot of
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people. ruth marcus when we talk about him living up to this campaign promise and immediately the re-election campaign, promise made, promise kept. no doubt he would do it. the question, how he would do it. would he give a nod to the europeans. give them time to renegotiate something new but in fact just slapped them back. said the strongest sanctions ever, and i think this could be the most consequential decisions he makes. >> one of the most consequential actions of the obama presidency if you don't think it -- the urge to undo it absolutely clear from the president since the campaign. the notion that he was going to withhold this, the best, i think, that his advisers could do was to prevent him from doing it earlier in the presidency, but this day was always going to come. >> and there are different
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advisers. john bolton and mike pompeo. >> yes. >> ruth marcus, jonathan lamere, thank you both and more ahead. we'll be right back. it's time now for "your business" of the week. annie morehouser owner of annie glass heard one too many times someone's mother loved her glassware. should have been a complement, but she took it as an indication she needed to modernize her brand. see what annie did to change her products to reach millennials on sunday morning, 7:30 eastern on msnbc. >> announcer: sponsored by the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. for a board meeting without it. don't keep it real... keep it going... or simply keep it in the family without it. and don't turn that business trip, into an overdue family trip without it. ♪ ♪ the more you live between life and business, the more you need someone at your back.
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i'm chris jansing in for craig melvin. follow the money. explosive claim from the lawyer for stormy daniels suggesting troubling new connections between that investigation and robert mueller's. half a million dollars from a company controlled by a russian oligarch that made its way to the shell company that paid out daniels' hush money. plus, pompeo to the rescue. bringing home three americans no longer imprisoned in north korea. what that means for a possible one-on-one between president trump and kim jong-un. and undercover and in the shadows. after 30 years-plus as a spy, the president's choice to run the cia introduces herself to america with this -- >> i think you will find me to be a typical middle-class american. >> ah, but one who ran a secret cia prison. what she told congress as
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