dizziness, or confusion. ask your health care provider if you're tresiba® ready. covered by most insurance and medicare plans. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ that's our show. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. infected by russia. let's play hardball. >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight we're learning more about the russian infection into american democracy spreading through one of the president's closest allies, his personal fixer michael cohen. michael avenatti, the lawyer for adult actress stormy daniels alleges that a company tied to a russian oligarch paid cohen $500,000 in the months after the 2016 election.

the billionaire victor vexilberg is one of russia's richest men and has close ties to russia's president vladimir putin. nbc news has reviewed financial documents that appear to support avenatti's charge. he alleges that money from the oligarch related company was deposited from the same account cohen used to wire a hush money payment of $130,000 to daniels. avenatti today accused cohen of selling access. let's watch. >> you've got millions of dollars that are being deposited in this account. michael cohen seems to be selling access to the president of the united states. >> today michael cohen called the accusations inaccurate. >> any response? >> how do you feel you may have

changed an election? >> the line used by every flack when they're caught, inaccurate. the lawyer responded to avenatti in a court filing, saying, quote, this document is concerning for a number of reasons including the blatantly incorrect statements. but tonight avenatti standing by his report tweeting, mr. ryan emphasis submission on behalf of mr. cohen is base-class, improper and sanctionable. according to documents released by avenatti, a u.s. based company called columbus nova headed by vesselberg's cousin routed eight payments totaling approximately $800,000 to the company. issuing this statement, the firm hired michael cohen as a

business consultant regarding potential sources of capital and potential investments in real estate and other ventures. well, last friday "the new york times" citing people familiar with the matter says agents for special counsel mueller confronted vexilberg as he stepped off a plane. he was sanctioned by the u.s. treasury in april this year, but has not been accused of wrongdoing in connection with the investigation to cohen. late today giuliani denied the president was involved in business dealings in question. he said the president is not involved in anyway either before or after he was president, and we don't believe mueller would have given the case away if he was involved. joining me now the author of russian roulette, a best-seller about this stuff, michael schmidt, david jolly, and jill winebanks, former assistant

watergate prosecutor and nbc news contributor. in order i want you all to talk about this first. david, this mixing of funds,gyning of funds, $500,000 coming in from this cousin of this oligarch into the coffers of mr. michael cohen, $130,000 being paid by the coffers of mr. cohen, how does it all relate? it seems to me to relate to russia with the hanky pank and coveri covering up for it. >> january 6, 2017, the intelligence committee releases its report saying russia attacked our election in part to help get trump get elected. that's the environment this time. trump is denying that this ever happened, and here's his fixer taking $500,000 or starting to from one of the chief oligarchs over there. >> they're not denying this, by the way. >> of course, they're not denying it and that's very

interesting. because we reported jones back in 2016 he had steel and ross with cyprus involved in shady russian money. and at the same time this cousin of his who's an american citizen he's giving $250,000 to trump's inaugural committee. now, is that money coming from victor vexilberg as well? there's so much more here and others to investigate. and shows the house intelligence committee republicans, they shut their door long before this movie was done. >> michael, what's going on here? >> well, this highlights a problem that trump's lawyers and cohen's lawyers have thought existed all along, which is that that they don't know what's in all those documents that were taken from cohen's office. they've been worried about this from the beginning. trump wasn't being candid about

it. cohen wasn't being candid about it now. at least they have access to these documents now to understand it. but they don't understand what the feds are looking at exactly in new york. it's a mystery to them. and that's why if they will speak canned dudley to you, they will tell you they are more concerned what's going on in new york than they are with washington. they say, look, we understand the contours of the mueller investigation, we get what's going on there, we understand what the witnesses have said, what the questions are. new york, no idea. this is the latest example, a surprise, something unusual that brings in all different strands of this story. >> why do you think giuliani said that if this had to do with russia, if cohen's situation and the whole question with stormy daniels had something to do with russia, then mueller would have never released it to the new york office to handle. >> i was surprised to hear that. it seems like giuliani is speaking as if he knows what's going on inside the investigation, which i'm pretty

sure he doesn't. it also assumes that michael cohen is sort of like a black and white issue. where it's either in new york or either in washington with mueller. and my guess and our sense from our reporting is this is something on both sides. there's different parts of michael cohen that are being looked at. so the idea that mueller passed on this, i was a little skeptical of that when i heard it. >> jill winebanks, tell me your sense of that, the distinction between going after stormy daniels of the $130,000, the $500,000 coming in from vexilberg, the russian oligarch and what's the overlap? >> first of all, let's not forget the money that came in from u.s. corporations that is paid to play it looks like. and one of them said they hired him to do their internal accounting system, and then they found out he couldn't provide the services but they paid him anyway on a monthly basis. this is very big news in terms

of the investigation, both in terms of the russia investigation and in terms of general corruption within the administration. so this is really very interesting. and i think that it is correct to say that both mueller and the southern district of new york are looking into different aspects of activities by the president's lawyer michael cohen. >> let's talk about that role that people play. sometimes when people help someone get elected president of the united states, they say i don't want a job, i want to be outside. i want to be a bag man. obviously, they don't say it that way. you got to pay the toll, and you got to pay me if you want to talk to the new president, because i helped get him in there and he'll see whoever i tell him to see. this isn't new. if you want to talk to trump, you want to get something out of him, you pay cohen. how is it different? >> so, chris, is that for me?

>> i'm asking jill. first the legal and then we'll go to politics in a minute. >> i think both legally and politically this is very bad stuff and that there is a number of potential crimes just from a legal perspective. the standard for bribery is very tough to meet. there has to be a quid pro quo. there has to be some actual action. so that paying for access to the president isn't a crime in and of itself. but if the president then does anything to help the person that they saw, that is bribery, and that could be a crime. and having a pass through through his lawyer doesn't make it any less criminal and also politically unacceptable. this is the president who said he's going to drain the swamp, and he is filling that swamp. this is the opposite of draining the swamp. this is pay to play. >> you mean continuing a pro-russian foreign policy

across the board. >> exactly. that could be enough in mine mind to establish there could be some quid pro quo. and we know that sanctions haven't been put in place that should have been put in place until they were really forced to be put in place. and there's still more that need to be put in place. i don't trust that they will happen. i think there is a relationship with russia we need to be looking at. and shame on congress for stopping the investigation. i would like to see a public investigation. i think the public needs to know all the facts about the man that is the president. and they aren't going to know it because mueller is properly keeping this secret. he has to keep it secret, but congress should be doing something, and they should be stopping any future interference in our elections and they're not doing that. shame on them. >> you know, david, i want to talk about the politics of this. because people like menendez in new jersey and mcdonald and these guys, established relations, personal intimate relations with foreign people.

sometimes american but they come from other countries. they're not familiar with our political system. they're fearful they have to buy a politician. the word is out if you want to get something from trump you go to michael cohen. the fact these big drunk -- drug companies are going through that door, that door is wide open for business. this guy setup a till, and i think the russians know about it because the russians are notoriously fixed on finding one american they want to deal with. we're a little obtuse for them. tell us about this from a political angle. when you watch this guy victter vexilberg, there he is, he's got a cousin in the united states, he knows a little bit about american politics and he's dealing with cohen. who's not a great lawyer. no one says he's an actual look at the law books lawyer. he's a fixer. >> this is influence pedaling. the question is it legal or is it illegal. and that's important because go

back to the snapshot in time. frankly, you had a lot of republican donors who had criticized and abandoned donald trump all of a sudden writing million dollar checks to the ininaugural committee to try to make up. yeah, sure, you had other michael cohens in donald trump's world opening lobbying shops in d.c. we have seen it from bush's friends to clinton's friends. when you're dealing with a foreign nation state or foreign interest, you have the department of justice, foreign

registrations. >> and trump opened several doors for them to come in and sort of interact with his key people. >> well, reuters is now reporting that at&t says it has contacted -- once contacted by special counsel office late last year about payments to michael cohen. the company says it cooperated with the mueller investigation november and december of last year and since then has received no additional questions. i just wonder how do you react

to this whole thing? >> why are you surprised the russians would continue this? >> we're getting more evidence from it. >> what i'm saying is that nothing has been put in place post-election to try and stop any of this. there's no look at it. there's been no serious oversight from the hill. i guess they would say there has been -- >> today the senate intelligence committee reported out and i read it in your paper inside pages on the a section, but the fact is they talked about 18 to 21 states that were hacked and whatever, they're trying to screw up the registration of our voters. >> the administration has taken no measures to try to prevent this from happening again. so if you're the russians, why would you stop if the administration is not putting anything in place? >> michael, you're so smart. i see it in your face sometimes you know more than you tell us.

but i watch vladimir putin, and i watch that little smirk he's got in his face every time. and every time trump is around, does he know all this crap? does he know about michael cohen, vixalberg, about this oligarch activity in our country? >> i'm not a russia expert, but i think that we sometimes give them too much credit for what they have done. to think that they have smarter than they were. i think they threw an enormous amount of stuff at the wall. it was very cheap. some of it stuck and it's had -- >> i just wonder how active the guy is. vladimir looks like he does everything in the oligarch. >> they already said putin ordered the attack on the russians. no doubt he has some idea what these oligarchs have done in interacting with the trump campaign and the trump world afterwards. >> i want to thank you david.

it's good book and a late motif to all what we're talking about. former congressman david jolly, you know the smell of this thing. you may have seen it in the world. jill winebanks, thank you. we always rely on you. coming up, the latest stunt to sabotage the mueller investigation. new reporting now shows the house intel chair devin nunes was willing to risk the life and safety of an intelligence source in a quest to cover trump. a heads up on what trump and mueller is up to. and plus melania trump unveiled her new initiative this week but it's her husband and allies that now want to defend programs that help children and separate children from their parents at the border. he deserves credit for the progress being made with north

korea. of course, but why did he abandon the iran nuclear deal? does he deserve a nobel or is he a neo-con? this is "hardball" where the action is. how much is it? well, if you have a discover card, it's free. no way! yes way! we just think it's important for you to be in the know. all right! hey... ewww! everything ok? being in the know is very good. yeah, it is. ooo don't shake! don't shake! ahhh! know if your social security number is found on risky sites. free from discover.

well, those three americans who were held in north korea are now back on america soil. you're looking at a live picture now from anchorage, alaska. it's landed in alaska to refuel. in a statement just released those detainees thanked president trump, secretary pompeo and the people of the united states for bringing us home. and we'll be right back. s dog. and this is frank's record shop. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff that's part of running a business. so frank can focus on the beat. you hear that? this is frank's record shop.

and this is where life meets legal. you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. but behr premium stain y can weather any weather. overall #1 rated, weathers it all. find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot.

mr. elliot, what's your wiwifi?ssword? wifi's ordinary. basic. do i look basic? nope! which is why i have xfinity xfi. it's super fast and you can control every device in the house. [ child offscreen ] hey! let's basement. and thanks to these xfi pods, the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. welcoming back to "hardball." the president's defenders have already made several attempts with limited success to discredit undermine or otherwise kill the russian probe of robert mueller. now it appears that trump's top ally in the house is willing to go further. according to "the washington post," last wednesday senior fbi

and national intelligence officials relayed an urgent message to the white house. information being sought by house intelligence committee chairman devin nunes could endanger a top secret intelligence source. they report that president trump and top white house officials were persuaded that turning over justice department documents could risk lives by potentially exposing that source. a u.s. citizen who has provided intelligence to the cia and the fbi. the story notes that several administration officials feared trump may reverse course, however, and support nunes' argument. now cnn has reported that he's been offered a classified briefing at the justice department tomorrow to discuss this classified briefing. and all this as rod rosenstein last week called these document requests extortion. additionally, a law enforcement official told "the new york times" last week that mr. rosenstein and top fbi officials have come to suspect that some lawmakers were using their

oversight authorities to gain intelligence about that investigation so that it could be shared with the white house. joining me now is democrat congressman congress castro. this is horrible claim, but it sounds like the chairman of your committee, mr. nunes is seeking information from the mueller investigation so he can feed it to the people being investigated, ie, trump. >> you know that's absolutely possible at this point. there's no question that really almost since this investigation started that devin nunes has been in the service of president trump, that as i've mentioned before he has made his career a sacrifice fly for trump. and it wouldn't be surprising if he's doing it again. >> but the reason for the intelligence committee's creation was to keep an eye on the intelligence services, to keep them straight, and what's he doing?

>> well, you know, he's basically doing everything that he can to muddy the waters, and oftentimes i think to smear the intelligence agencies on behalf of the president. and i think make it easier for him to get rid of mr. rosenstein and perhaps others who are conducting the mueller investigation. >> well, let's look at two possibilities. one is to overload them with so many requests, so many demands that you just wear them out. but the other is to get that information is hand them over to the white house. >> that's right. and what's so bizarre is that this is a republican administration being subpoenaed by a republican chairman, and ignoring the subpoena and now perhaps facing a charge of contempt. you know, that is just bizarre, that they can't even agree on any of this stuff and are fighting each other. >> how bizarre? i felt like johnny carson.

is it as bizarre going down the old executive building next to the white house, coming back with info and the next day going back and giving to the west wing of the white house? >> it's about the same thing. >> eli, what do you make of this? what's the republican chair of the intelligence committee doing? because he's so different that he's working with mark warner to get information out. >> he's really far-out there. and if you wanted to put to rest some of these questions about his actual motivations you would think he would come out and publicly state why he wants all this information, why he's subpoenaing information specifically about this one intelligence official, and he's done none of that. >> do you think he knows? he's been told what to do? >> when you look at it and place it in the context of this behavioral pattern, this fact pattern of all the other things that nunes has done, it's hard to look at this as anything other than an effort to cover

up, protect the president. and as again as you pointed out this is by the person who's charged with leading a committee that is tasked with oversight. >> one of the with us things you can do in intelligence is give away an intelligence source. u.s. congressman nunes was dismissive of the fbi's concerns on that front. "the washington post" posted they are citing spurious national security concerns to evade congressional oversight. we will succeed in getting this information regardless of whatever fantastic stories the department of justice and the fbi spin to "the post," "the washington post." >> but it should also be note said as a member of the intelligence committee devin nunes, the chair has not come in front of the committee and explain why he wants or needs this information. on the week we were off, we were all back home and still has not come forward to explain his actions. >> just late today, the senate intelligence committee revealed more about russia's penetration of state voting systems around

the country in the lead up to the 2016 election. catch this, while they say saw no evidence that the russians were able to change any vote total, nice cyber actors were at a min wrm able to delete or alter data. they concluded the underlying aim was to disclude the results. real democracy, they've got nothing like that to compare with us, and they want to bring down our moral cred by screwing up our own confidence and the world's confidence in our electoral system. clearly they're doing it. >> and they're goal is to create enough confusion and sew enough doubt and skepticism and resentment it basically interferes with people's trust in government. even without that folks are already skeptical about government. but when you add on top of that

thousands and thousands of bots, make pages and twitter accounts and all this stuff in cyberspace it makes things that much worse. >> it makes people think what? >> it makes them question their government. you heard about the james helm episode in texas. >> tell me. >> there was this idea that the military was basically going to conduct this exercise in texas and they were doing it as a precursor to going in, invading different parts of the state and other parts of the country. and it turns out and it blew up in texas. there were public meetings about it that were held because of all the concern of the citizens of the residents of texas. and it turns out that the russians were part of the ones hyping this thing. >> what's that word? >> and the russians know at this point they have at this point they have an administration here that doesn't want to acknowledge this because the president cannot accept russia played any role in this election because he feels it delegitimizes his

victory. and there are not a lot of people out there who are clamoring for further investigation. >> that's also true. thank you. up next first lady melania trump this week unveiled an initiative to help kids. good for her. too bad her husband's administration september on the same page at all. the trump team has unveiled two stunning policies that will hurt the most vulnerable children. but if that's not enough, we offer innovative investing tools to prepare you for the future. looks like you hooked it. and if that's not enough, we'll help your kid prepare for the future. don't hook it kid. and if that's still not enough, we'll help your kid's kid prepare for the future. looks like he hooked it. we'll do anything... takes after his grandad. seriously anything, to help you invest for the future. ally. do it right. seriously anything, to help you invest for the future. my mom washes the dishes... ...before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? new cascade platinum lets your dishwasher be the dish washer.

three cleaning agents dissolve, lift and rinse away food the first time. new cascade platinum.

with tcalled audible.le app you can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. binge better. audible.

"the washington post" and msnbc contributor. let me ask you about first of all chips and then the other policy. it just seems to me if you're going to cut a program, you're going to do on paper and in the counting gimmick, why would you want to be known as the party that cuts children's health? >> the children's health insurance program is one of the best, most cost-efficient expansion of children's health insurance around. it is the right thing to do. children are cheap to insure, but they need health insurance. it goes to families who make too much to be eligible for medicaid. it's a great use of government dollars. look, this is just a bunch of -- >> don't they care about pr

here? >> yeah, but they care about a different pr problem. this is being pushed by house republicans and the administration who want to make themselves look better in the eyes of conservatives. because they passed this beg spending bill and they now want to look fiscally conservative, which by the way, they are not. they passed a huge tax cut. they passed a big spending bill. now the only thing they can find to engage in resition on, to take it back is some, well, i know what you want me to do -- i'll stop talking. now the only thing they can found to cut is kids? come on, give me a break. >> this reminds me of a movie we both love. 25 years ago we had dave, and let's watch a clip where the first lady confronts the president over funding for children. >> don't put on this man of the people routine and then do something like this. >> i don't understand. >> you know very well that was not a works bill that you vetoed. that would have given those children homes. when i think of that skeptical

you put on with the little boy and the magic trick. >> wait a minute, what's wrong with a magic trick? >> some magic. you made their funding disappear. >> look, if there's been some mistake -- >> there's no mistake, bill. when you veto their funding that's not a mistake. >> barbara bush never looked quite like sigourney weaver. >> let's get back to the border and what sessions said. >> by the way, i do need to say on the chip, it may be this is just budget gimmickry rather than actually cutting funding. because these are kind of special in case of emergency funds -- >> if it comes, item be there. >> look, we heard the first lady speaking with passion and i'm sure sincerity about how we need to protects the most vulnerable

and fragile among us who are children. >> and she's an immigrant. >> right. and you now you take people coming across the border with their children. why are they coming across the border with their children? to try to give their children a better life, which is what parents want for their children everywhere, and you're going to try to deter them, and this is sort of the best case scenario excuse they use. well, if they know they're going to be separated, they're going to be deterred from coming. but what kind of country behaves this way? and i think that the disconnect between the first lady one hour and the attorney general on the other hour has to do with the way this administration thinks about immigrants. they do not think of them as -- and you hear this in the president's comments about breeding, the president's comments about animals. they do not think of immigrants as real people with the hopes and aspirations of real people.

>> he thinks his wife is real. thank you for your stuff. up next one day after blowing up the iran nuclear deal president trump announced north korea has freed three american detainees. how do you explain the disconnect? what are we looking at a nobel here or another neo-con? you're watching "hardball." people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. you wouldn't accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances.

most pills only block one. flonase. i neverunderwear that's this, but actually pretty.leak always discreet boutique. hidden inside is a super absorbent core that quickly turns liquid to gel. so i feel protected... ...and pretty. always discreet boutique.

you can do it. we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. -whoo! is part of a bigger picture. that bigger picture is statewide mutual aid. california years ago realized the need to work together. teamwork is important to protect the community, but we have to do it the right way. we have a working knowledge and we can reduce the impacts of a small disaster, but we need the help of experts. pg&e is an integral part of our emergency response team. they are the industry expert with utilities. whether it is a gas leak or a wire down, just having someone there that deals with this every day is pretty comforting. we each bring something to the table that is unique and that is a specialty. with all of us working together we can keep all these emergencies small. and the fact that we can bring it together and effectively work together is pretty special.

they bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. and the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg&e's been there, too. whatever we need whenever we need it. i do count on pg&e to keep our firefighters safe. that's why we ask for their help. nobody thought this was going to happen, and if it did it would be years or decades, frankly. nobody thought this was going to happen. and i appreciate kim jong-un doing this and allowing them to go. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump on today's positive news out of they can. three americans previously detained by that country on their way home.

after a visit by newly admitted secretary of state mike pompeo. saying three wonderful gentlemen are in good health. he added secretary pompeo and the detainees will be landing at andrews air force at 2:00 in the morning there and i will be up to greet them. trump staying up late on this one. >> we picked a time. we picked a place for the meeting or summit as you like to call it. and i think it'll be very successful. but as i always say, who knows. who knows what's going to happen, but it's going to be a very important event. >> where's the summit going to take place? >> we're going to announce that within three days. >> within three days. >> we're just working arrangements. >> is it going to be the dmz? >> it will not be there. >> the associated press notes

just as donald trump reached one hand out to north korea he yanked the other back from iran. however, john bolton argued that withdrawing from the iran nuclear deal was critical to negotiations with north korea. how do you figure this? well, he referenced the united states prior withdrawal with an anti-ballistic treaty with russia. >> we had a rotten deal with iran, and just as george w. bush withdraw from the 1972 abm treat abecause it was not in america's strategic interest, that's what the president has done here. i think it sends a very important message to north korea that we're not in these negotiations with them just to get a deal. we're going to get the right deal. >> today president trump was asked if he deserves the nobel prize with north korea? we'll get to his answer next at the "hardball" round table. alright, i brought in new max protein

...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. i'll take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. new ensure max protein. in two great flavors. hello. let's go for a ride on a peloton. let's go grab a couple thousand friends and chase each other up a hill. let's go make a personal best, then beat it with your personal better than best. let's go bring the world's best instructors right to you. better yet, let's go bring the entire new york studio - live. let's go anytime, anywhere, with anyone who's willing. and let's go do it all right here. ready to go? peloton.

welcome back to "hardball." amid the news that north korea released three american detainees president trump was asked if he deserves the nobel peace prize for his work with kim jong-un's regime. >> everyone thinks so, but i would never say it. you know what i want to do, i want to get it finished. the prize that i want is victory for the world. that's what we're talking about, so that's the only prize i want. >> let's bring in the "hardball" round table. the white house reporter for

npr. and howard an msnbc political analyst. is this a confidence building measure as we say in diplomacy. is it a meeting? tell me about all this. >> it's a meeting, but it's a very important meeting. but you know -- >> not on the dmz? >> not on the dlz, but i've been talking to foreign policy,perts and they say even though the meeting is important and all eyes are going to be on it what's really important is what happens behind the scenes and after that meeting is over. and whether the u.s. and north korea can agree what denuclearization will mean for the korean peninsula and also how will that be implemented? so what's the flashy stuff in front of the cameras is not really going to matter as much as what happens behind the scenes. >> trump didn't like the deal we got with iran. so he can only get a deal as good as he can get by definition with north korea.

once he gets a deal as good as he can get like five years, seven years, ten years, they'll layoff their program how can he defend any deal having dumped the iranian deal? >> consistency has not been binding this administration to great degree in the first place. the president has built-up this huge expectation now. it's just two guys talking -- >> are you that helpful. >> i will write his nobel prize acceptance speech if he can get north korea to permanently denuclearize, which is basically the expectation he has raised here. it's terrific he's brought home these three captains, two of them were taken prisoner during the trump presidency. >> that makes no sense because how many times have i said in my defense at home -- howard, let me go to you on this -- don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

how do you get no nuclear weapons in the hands of the country that has nuclear weapons in their hands? >> it's a much tougher negotiation than with the iranians. in terms of time, in terms of laying off the development of the program, he'd be lucky as we just said, to get out of iran. >> so why he's saying, as day-mind just said i'm going to get rid of the nuclear weapons? >> because that's the goal he's set for himself going way back. that is the prize, is not just to get them to stop but to denuclearize. i think another aspect of it is missile. don't forget in the last year the north koreans have developed missiles in theory and in fact are capable of reaching the united states. so that's a big factor. >> i think whenever we say what's the theory behind this, we're going to come up empty. he said obama made an iran deal

bad, get out of it. they're not making any progress with korea. in a way it's just churn and do the opposite. and i think he's got himself into tricky situation intellect stuff from trump. but he ran as an anti-stupid war guy. he brought in john bolton. he is acting like the most neo connie owe con. he looks like he wants to go after the axis of evil again. let's go fight with iran. let's go fight with north korea. the old game plan of the neo cons, fight with everybody. and yet he is going to make peace with the little guy over there in north korea. >> we're entering this phase where president trump can't just blame all the past administrations for what they did wrong because now he is making decisions. so he can't blame obama for what's going on in iran anymore. now it's on him. what's going happen? he is saying iran will not get nuclear weapons. so what are you willing to do to make sure that happens? and it's the same -- >> john bolton's got an answer, bomb them. >> yeah. >> i think -- i think dana is on to something here.

i think each thing stands on its own in a way. if people point out contradictions, donald trump doesn't care. each show is a separate show. each card on the wrestling card is a separate match. and you're right. i think a big factor in iran is barack obama did the deal. it's not the only reason, because he has also taken sides with the sunnis against the shia in that part of the world because he is friendly with the saudis. he is friendly with the israelis. but he wants to do something that nobody has done. you tell donald trump here is something that nobody has done, and he is going to try to do it. the danger is that to me and the people i talk to say he is at least in theory putting on the table the possibility of withdrawing american troops from the korean peninsula. >> john bolton's theory is negotiate from strength, and that does make sense. what trump is doing here is negotiating from bluster, and that is what leverage does he have right now? okay, the prisoners, he's gotten those back. >> what do they want? what does kim jong-un want?

>> that's why i'm saying what they want is a beginning of the reduction of american troops in the korean peninsula is what they want. >> okay, the round table is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell mississippi me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ i was wondering if an electric toothbrush really cleans better than a manual. and my hygienist says it does but they're not all the same. who knew? i had no idea. so she said, look for one that's shaped like a dental tool with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's rounded brush head surrounds each tooth to gently remove more plaque, and oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the american dental association for its effectiveness and safety. my mouth feels so clean. i'll only use an oral-b. oral-b. brush like a pro. this one's below market price and has bluetooth. same here, but this one has leather seats! use the cars.com app to compare price, features and value.

well, that plane carrying the three freed americans held in north korea for all those months is now on its way back to joint base andrews in washington. we're back with the "hardball" round table. tell me something i don't know. >> the u.s. ambassador to germany, richard grinnel who just got confirmed is already upsetting some germans. he tweeted that german companies need to immediately stop business with iran and former and current german officials were saying you don't tell what's to do. you can tell us about policy, but don't give us orders. >> nice opening for him. >> well, the president stormed through appalachia promising to bring back coal. and unfortunately, that's not happening. forbes reported on an industry conference today saying that the coal industry is collapsing at a faster rate than it was last year, and at a faster rate than

it was under obama with all the -- >> that's the one part of the wasn't where they want coal in their stocking. howard? >> there has been a lot of talk that justice anthony kennedy might retire, i heard. >> now the new talk is he is definitely staying. >> why? >> why? >> he doesn't want trump replacing him? >> because he wants to stay at the job. and he is the swing vote and he doesn't want to give donald trump the opportunity to change. and i'm told that it's pretty close to definite that he is back. >> wow. he could be the fifth vote for demanding trump testify. ayesha rascoe, dana milbank and howard fineman. when i return, let my finish with trump watch. gentlemen, i have just received word! the louisiana purchase, is complete! instant purchase notifications from capital one. so you won't miss a purchase large, small, or very large. technology this helpful...

could make history. what's in your wallet? no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces that trap odors and release them back into the room. so, try febreze fabric refresher. febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics and cleans them away as it dries. use febreze every time you tidy up to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. fabric refresher even works for clothes you want to wear another day. make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. a few problems actually. we're overproducing, overcrowding, and overheating. we've got aging roadways, aging power grids, ...aging everything. you're kinda bumming me out clive owen. no, wait... it gets worse. we also have the age-old problem of bias in the workplace. really... never heard of it. seriously? it's all over the news. i've heard of it. ahh. the question is... who's going to fix all of this? an actor? probably not. but you know who can solve it?

business. that's right. the best-run businesses can make the world run better. because solving big problems is what business does best. and doing good is just good business. shhh! sorry. so let's grow more food, with less water. and make healthcare, more healthy. it's okay, i've played a doctor. what have we got here? let's take on the wage gap, the opportunity gap, the achievement gap. together, we can tackle every elephant in the room. and save the rhino while we're at it. because, whatever the problem, business can help. and i know who can help them do it...

trump watch, wednesday, may 9th, 2018. when the enemy arrives, who is there to open the gate and allow them to penetrate the city's walls? this is not an abstract question. when the russians laid siege to the democratic system, this country's pride of authorship, who is there to open the gates? it was donald trump who brought paul manafort, an agent of russian influence to the top of his presidential campaign. it was donald trump's fixer, lawyer michael cohen who provide services to a russian oligarch close to the kremlin. in fact, to vladimir putin himself. as former fbi agent frank laguzzi said today, this effort to penetrate our democracy is like an infectious disease. it crepted into our democratic apparatus, almost half our 50

states. they tried to find ways to sabotage our electoral systems, to destroy our ability to register voters and even to count the votes. they wanted to destroy the one clear-cut unchallenged advantage we hold over the russians, our democracy. the russians aren't coming thanks to trump's compadres they're already here. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> is the president concerned that major corporations were giving money to somebody very close to him at a time when they had business before the federal government? >> the secret slush fund of president trump's lawyer. >> it's called pay for play. >> tonight, what we're learning about what companies got for paying michael cohen. >> michael cohen appears to be selling access to the president of the united states. >> and how the russian collusion probe may have uncovered an even bigger public corruption scandal. >> any response? any response to