whatever you do, don't forget that the more you live forward, the more you need someone at your back. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't live life without it. ♪ morning glory, america. i'm hugh hewitt coming to you today from detroit. given this week the importance of what it means for the war, secretary of state pompeo's trip to north korea and his return with three americans held hostage to be greeted on the tarmac. the president and the vice president, a rocket barrage at israel from iranian forces in syria met with a withering return of fire from israel. new disclosures about michael cohen, a tweet about credentialing the press. and of course president trump's ripping of president obama's

rules with iran. i thought it would be important that i asked the dean of the reporting union of the "washington post" to join me to start the show. later our new ambassador to germany to join me after the break from berlin to discuss both the president and the world. dan, great to have you this morning. dan, i want to first start by noting may 3rd you had a story called trump and his attorney didn't tell the truth. if giuliani is right, will that change anything? on friday, may 11th, you had a great story about the voters that you have been investigating in the middle of the company loyalty, unease in trump's midwest. and weather voters will remain all in. others grown weary of the chaos. when did you start this most recent story on the voters in the midwest? >> hugh, thank you for having me on. i appreciate it. i started january 2017 without a

game plan. i wanted to understand better what had happened in 2016. i think as most reporters did and a lot of americans did. i wanted to understand better the people who put donald trump into office. it's a part of the country where i grew up, so i had some familiarity with it. and i talked to my editor, steven ginsburg about it, and i decided i should go out and start talking to people without necessarily knowing when or what we would write. and that, morphed into other trips into other parts of the midwest. i started in areas where i had grown up and then went into other areas. and eventually we decided that we would just keep going with a handful of the voters that i had met to see how their views did or did not change over time about the president. and ultimately what showed up on may 11th in the "post" is a 15,000 word story with great

photographs by my colleague marlene that maura and joel frazier. it is very difficult to do a single bottom line. but i would say there's two realities. one, there are some people who voted for him who are as much or more in his camp than they were at the time of the election. and there are others who are very nervous about what they have seen, particularly the turmoil, the disruption, the chaos. some like the policies and they're willing to give him more time on that. others like the policies but the turmoil is -- one of the people i talked to said it left them motion sick. in many ways they hold the key to his presidency. >> you know, dan, i read this with such interest. it arrived at the same time that the "great revolt" arrived. you're studying the same people. trumbull county, ohio, is the

deepest purple on the graphic that you have u accompanying the "washington post" story about counties that flipped from being big obama counties to big trump counties. you mentioned lee county in your article. iowa. that was a 12-point loss for mitt romney. a 12-point win for trump. trumbull county, my hometown, president obama, john kerry won it. 60% twice. and donald trump won it with 55%. those swing voters, 20% to 30% of people, who are they, dan? what was your opinion at the end of the day when you explained to our audience today who might not spend much time in iowa or ohio? >> let me just preface this by saying there are 100 counties in the country, give or take, that voted at least five times in a row for a democratic presidential nominee that then flipped to donald trump in 2016. in some cases, of those counties it was six elections in a row or

7, 8, 10 or in a couple of cases, 12 or 14. half of those counties are in the upper midwest in the four states of minnesota, wisconsin, iowa, illinois. that was one of the reasons i cops traited on that. a lot of them are along or adjacent to the mississippi river. these are, you know, americans. these are working people. they are people who are farmers, small business people. they work in fact, list. they're teachers. you know, they are all kinds of different people. hugh, one of the things that is still a little difficult to parse out is how many people have voted for obama in '08, '12, and then flipped. or how much the composition of the electorate changed. how much of the obama vote did not show up for hillary clinton. how much of people who did not come out for john mccain or mitt romp any decided they wanted to come out for 2012?

i think these big swings we saw in these counties, and in some cases it was 30 points. or in a couple of cases, a 40-point swing. these are counties with small populations. so a small number of people can have a big percentage change. but they come from all walks of life, hugh. and they, you know, one of the congress people who represents one of these districts is sherry busto. she calls amount of these voters trump triers. they were fed up with the status quo for a variety of reasons. i don't think you can say it was a single reason but for a variety of reasons. they decided they would take a chance on donald trump. and they are measuring his presidency month by month given things they like and things that make them uncomfortable. >> you know, dan, one of the things i have noted -- i have read every book about this election. most about the campaigns not the voters. your articles are about the voters. i noticed a kphop theme.

that is about status and feeling a lack of association with the big four. los angeles, silicone value, new york, manhattan, washington, d.c. and alienation but not anger. we have been left behind. you picked that up. but the nature of attachment to trump, how has that changed with the week's events do you think that sees the hostages coming back from north korea with mike pompeo, that sees the president ripping up his predecessor's agreement with iran, and sees israel on the ropes fighting back against iran, rocket barrages. are they following it down day-to-day, applauding when he does something right and booing when he does something wrong. >> they have real lives and they pay attention but they can't follow all the ins and outs and

they form impressions. i would say it is very risky to make any predictions or projections based on one week. this was a week in which the president was the dominant character in the world. and there are a lot of things that trump voters will applaud. there may be some they are nervous about. but we don't know. one of the things that kept me back was there were so many intervening events. i made a trip in january of this year thinking that that would be the wrap up event and came back with interesting impressions and very good interviews. by the time i had assembled the material so many things happened we felt another trip to the midwest was warranted. so this is an ongoing story, hugh. and the president, as you know, has an ability to dominate the news in ways that are helpful to

him and in ways that are not helpful to him. and i think these voters are measuring that but not coming to a firm conclusion. at least the voters i would describe as in the conflicted category. >> can i make two observations about your story and the book. the people that you interviewed and she interviewed, they hate being called racists. they don't think they are racist in the least and they hate that more than anything else. but also they expect trump to deliver. if he doesn't, they're not going to stick with him. do you agree with the general consensus points of view? >> i agree with the second part. a number of people in my story make those expressions about the issue of race and racism. this filing that they have all been stereotyped. having said that, i do think there were elements of race that played into the 2016 election. and i think that's been pretty clear that there were things about the obama presidency that

exacerbated racial divisions in the country and things that the president said as a candidate that help said to stoke those. when you talk to the individuals, particularly the individuals i talked to, they resent being painted with a broad brush. so that's part of what we were trying to do. you mentioned the campaign books, and i've written them myself often tell the story of the inside game. i don't think that's unimportant. but i have always thought that the voters are very important and that we tend to understate and underplay what they are thinking at any given time. and i think that is what we set out to do and celina tried to do the same thing. >> it was a great piece, as was the piece on the president earlier in the week. i appreciate them both. i recommend everybody to go track them both down. thanks for joining me this morning. thank you. when we return, ambassador to join us as europe reacts to

america's deal with tehran 37. any object. any surface. if you've got a life you gotta swiffer the full value of your new car? you're better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

a hilton getaway means you get more because... you get another day in paradise. get a sunset on a sunday. get more stories to share. get more from your summer getaway with exclusive hilton offers. book yours, only at hilton.com (vo)have to happen?idn't i didn't see it. (vo) what if we could go back? what if our car... could stop itself? in iihs front-end crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. not toyota. not honda. not ford. the subaru impreza.

more than a car, it's a subaru. oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. xfinity mobile: find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. this tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it's a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life,

not the other way around. ♪ welcome back. i'm hugh hewitt. you can hear me monday through friday on the salem radio network 6:00 to 9:00 eastern. saturday mornings i'm here on msnbc. i'm pleased to welcome a long time friend, radio guest and somebody who i advocated for, ambassador to germany rick grinne grinnell. i was proud to attend your swearing in ceremony last week where vice president pence brought you in. your picture matt holding the biggest bible i have ever seen.

what is the story on the bible? >> thanks, hugh. thanks for having me. that bible is from 1892. it is my great, great grandfather's bible that he purchased in 1892. it has been passed down through generations. it's been at weddings, funerals. and at its first swearing in. my entire family was excited. >> there was a lot of symbolism in that swearing in ceremony. the vice president has taken a lot of heat for being too socially conservative over the years. here he is swearing in a gay man that holds the highest diplomatic post, openly gay. what was the symbolism of that, rick grenel? >> look, you have to talk to the vice president about what it means. we work well together. we share a lot of the same

values. the vice president of the united states is a great guy. what vice president pence told me and my partner and my partner's family, he looks forward to working together. we're on the same team in many ways. so i want to make sure that, you know, he speaks for himself on what that symbolism meant. for me personally, it meant a lot to have the vice president of the united states swear you in. >> now, rick grenell, let's go to what your job is. you were sent to be a pitbull for donald trump's policies, nato, fighting terrorism. your first tweet came right out of the box pretty doing gone hard at the germans. let me read it for people. u.s. sanctions will target critical sections of iran's economy. german companies doing business in iran should wind down operations immediately. how did you respond to the

ruffled feathers? >> i heard from a lot of people who were extremely supportive of the idea. that the business community within europe should not be doing business. it is a fair conversation to have. what i tried to do is to say that the german business community shouldn't do this. the german government gets to decide what the business community here will do. and the individual companies get to decide how they react. all i'm saying is there's plenty of evidence out there, the u.s. tkpwoftd government's position is that the iranians are a country and regime that we shouldn't be doing businesses with. the u.s. decided no u.s. business will have a relation inside iran. we think that the europeans should follow suit on that. but they get to decide exactly how their companies will behave

tpwhrfplt mr. ambassador, not long after the president ripped up the president obama deal with iran, angela merkel met with the president of france macron and said this. she said it is no longer such that the united states protects us, but europe must take its destiny in its own hands. that's the task of the future. >> look, i spent eight years at the united nations. and you could spend one day there to realize the germans and the americans are on the exact same side. we fight many of the same issues when it comes to democracy, human rights. but there are times when we disagree. the iran deal is one of them. i will say this, though. if you look at the eu3, the european three statement that came out after the americans

withdrew from the iran deal, it's very encouraging near the end. certainly in the beginning they say they're against us pulling out of this iran deal. but if you look down further, the eu3 makes a very important statement about the threat of iran. we are in total agreement that iran is a threat. and so what we're having now is just a debate on whether or not the jcpoa will stop the iranians from getting access to nuclear weapons. we believe that the jcpoa is not good enough. the europeans think it is good enough. and yet i think they are even beginning to move to say we would like to strengthen it. and so we now find ourselves in competing dialogue about how far to strengthen it. but the good news is the eu3 know there is a threat. and they would like to do

something more than the jcpoa. i think there is now an admission from the europeans and the americans that the jcpoa must be improved. now we will have discussions on how to improve that. >> the threat that iran poses is most critical to the state of israel. your first visit as an bam bass door in berlin to another was to the israeli ambassador to jermaine. why choose to go visit as your first nonstate action as another ambassador-to-ambassador contact? >> look, i think it's important for the americans and the israelis and the germans to all be united. and what i wanted to do is after meeting the president of swrer main and presenting my credentials was go to the other important country in this alliance here. and that's the israelis. so i went over to the israeli's ambassador's residence.

we had a very good talk. he is a smart guy who is committed in many ways to the same issues that the germans and the americans are committed to. and so i think it was more than symbolism. i wanted to begin coordinating right away. >> rick grenell, germany always existed right in the middle of europe. russia off to its east. of course the west we understand the west all the way, france, united kingdom and spain. it's always been pulled in both directions. nato was built toll keep germany in the west. now i'm worried again, and i think a lot of americans are worried, that the merkel government is caught betwixt and between what do you think of them being an active participant in the alliance? >> certainly more needs to be done. the number one issue is trying to really push the german government to speed up their support for nato.

they're currently at around 1.22%. the nato commitment is 2%. germany's economy is huge. so an increase from 1.22% to minimum of 2% will be a huge amount of money. and so we have to work with the germans to find ways. i want to be very creative. i don't want to just talk over each other and us, the americans keep saying the germans should raise their commitment to 2% and the germans tell us they're on a path and they're going to get there by 2030 is what chancellor merkel told president trump. we need to speed that up. but i think it's my job to get creative, to dig down and try to find solutions on how to get there. and i think we will look at the procurement process. we're going to try to work with the current budget and try to find ways, maybe through accounting, not through any trickery, not through any smoke and mirrors, but are there ways

to speed up this process under the current kind of rules that the german government has. the focus is going to be on increasing this as quickly as possible. i think we can make some progress on that. i've already met with the defense minister here. it's going to be really important for her to try to speed up this process. she's committed to doing that. we're going to launch a system together, a strategy to kind of look at that and speed that up as much as possible. but i think there is no question that the germans have a commitment to nato and to the united nations peacekeeping operations. >> that is great news. thanks, mr. ambassador. good luck in your new job. hope you will be back soon. and i'll be right back. -♪ he's got legs of lumber and arms of steel ♪

♪ he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal ♪ ♪ he holds your house in the palm of his hand ♪ ♪ he's your home and auto man ♪ big jim, he's got you covered ♪ ♪ great big jim, there ain't no other ♪ -so, this is covered, right? -yes, ma'am. take care of it for you right now. giddyup! hi! this is jamie. we need some help. roundup for lawns has arrived to put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. so draw the line. roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming a single blade of grass. roundup, trusted for over forty years.

copd makes it hard to breathe. so to breathe better, i go with anoro. ♪ go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way, with anoro." ♪ go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma. it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. ♪ go your own way get your first prescription free

at anoro.com. get your first prescription free let's do an ad of a man eating free waffles at comfort inn. they taste like victory because he always gets the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed, when he books direct at choicehotels.com. or just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com the sun goes down. you run those miles, squeeze the toothpaste from the bottom and floss to set a good example. you fine tune the proposal, change the water jug so no one else has to, get home for dinner and feed the cat. you did a million things for your family today but speaking to pnc to help handle all your investments was a very important million and one. pnc. make today the day. welcome back. i want to thank my friends in detroit for making this morning's program possible. another programming note, i won't be here next week as the

royal wedding is getting, well, the royal treatment it deserves. i'll be back the following saturday morning here on msnbc. keep the conversation going on msnbc.com/hugh-hewitt. you can e stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. binge better. audible.

♪ what is it? the next big thing in food was once a little paper box. now we can easily take out food from a restaurant. let's stay in and binge-watch the snow. genius.

now, the next big thing is the capital one savor card. good choice babe. oh, wait, hold on. earn 3% cash back on dining, 2% on groceries, and 1% on all other purchases. what's in your wallet? led california's fight ofor clean, renewable energy.or he cleaned up pollution at the port of l.a. and created more good-paying jobs. antonio villaraigosa for governor. because antonio villaraigosa millions got it done.healthcare

he defended women's healthcare, banned military-style assault weapons, banned workplace discrimination, and more. antonio for governor. hey there. good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york at the half hour. we begin with a live picture of the white house trying to temper the fallout after an aide reportedly mocked senator mccain but no one offered an apology. >> does the president set the tone? does he bear responsibility for the tone within this white house? >> the president, as i mentioned just a moment ago, supports all americans. >> does he