good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. as the special counsel's investigation reaches into new russian territory, trump's allies are making a new effort to destroy it. we're watching rudy giuliani and vice president mike pence join the president now in calling for an end to the probe as we mark the first year of the investigation. and now white house chief of staff john kelly, general kelly, is also speaking out, suggesting in an interview with npr that a year is long enough to conclude there's nothing there. >> the president keeps calling the russian investigation a witch hunt. do you think it's a witch hunt against the president? >> from what i read in the newspaper, something that has gone on this long without any real meat on the bone, it suggests to me that there is nothing there relative to our president. >> is there a cloud because of it hanging over this white

house? >> well, yeah. you know, there may not be a cloud, but certainly the president is somewhat embarrassed frankly. >> kelly later explained what he meant by embarrassed was distracted. that's actually what he meant to say, not embarrassed even though he said embarrassed. mueller's critics didn't admit it. it was trump's own words that put him in the crosshairs of this criminal investigation. it was one year ago today that trump admitted to lester holt of nbc that he fired former fbi director james comey precisely because the fbi was looking too closely at his connections to russia. he admitted this. let's watch. >> but regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. >> this conversation between him and himself must have been interesting. furthermore, we've seen every indication that robert mueller has moved forcefully in the year since he was appointed. his progress is best measured by

the nearly 20 indictments, guilty pleas, or cooperation agreements he's secured in connection with the probe to date. recent history also shows that similar investigations have gone on significantly longer than this russian probe. the shortest was the federal investigation of watergate, which lasted a year and a half, ultimately forcing richard nixon from office. the longest was the iran-contra investigation of the reagan administration, which took six years to conclude. ken starr investigation of president clinton took four years and the investigation into the valerie plame affair under george w. bush's presidency lasted more than three years. meanwhile, things took on an ugly turn after stormy daniels' lawyer, michael avenatti, challenged rudy giuliani to a debate on twitter this week. responding to avenatti today, giuliani said, quote, i don't get involved with pimps. he went on to say that the media loves to give him -- avenatti, room because he makes these round about charges and they turn out to mean nothing. giuliani added, i wouldn't debate him because it wouldn't be fair.

i debate like really intelligent, skilled people. joining me right now is david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones and author of the book russian roulette, which is doing great on the best-seller list. natasha bertrand, a staff writer at the atlantic. charlie sykes, an msnbc contributor. and caroline polisi is a criminal defense attorney. where do we start? let's start with this. i'll start with pimp because i have to wonder how ugly this can get. giuliani using words like this, street talk like that against another lawyer. these are two lawyers fighting about the law and whether it was broken and he resorts to this street talk. what do you make of it? >> i think there's a certain -- it sounds like a big word, chris. a certain amount of derangement in how rudy giuliani has been reacting to politics, not just to this case but in the last year or two. i remember during the campaign, i went up to him and asked him about people at trump rallies

chanting "lock her up." he was a former fortunately prosecutor. he worked in the justice department. i said what do you make of that? is that the way people should behave? he put his face inches from mine. he turned beet red, and he started saying, she's guilty. she's guilty. if you talk to people who used to work for him, they all worry. they're worried a bit about rudy giuliani. he is not acting like the rational, reasonable person that some people thought he used to be. >> let's take this around because the language thing is important in a debate and how you reduce the language. pat moynihan said they define deviancy downward. this is trash talk, you'd have to call it. >> just like how kelly sadler insulted john mccain, we see this kind of language trickle down from the president. i think that one of the really revealing comments that rudy giuliani made this week was to "the new york times" maggie haberman, which is that he really misses on tv. he hadn't been on tv in a while. he was kind of laying under the radar, especially after the trump campaign ended, and he missed the attention. that's a big reason why he says

and does these things is because he craves it. >> well he got attention, the wrong kind, i'd say, because he was america's mayor not too long ago, maybe too long ago. this is the language. i don't know. it's in mob movies you hear this kind of talk. you hear it everywhere in the street, but you don't expect to hear it from the president's lawyer. excuse me. we keep forgetting that he's the president's lawyer, one of his lawyers. the other guy is michael cohen. i don't know what to make of this. your thoughts? >> it is like a mob movie. but another indication natasha is absolutely right about all this. this tone is set by the president who has dumbed down the level of language and the rhetoric and the tactics. it feels like we're on a sixth grade playground so often. >> in a pretty tough neighborhood actually. >> it's a very, very tough neighborhood. look, rudy giuliani, is not articulating any sort of a coherent legal strategy whatsoever. what you see is basically, you know, a hint of how incoherent

that legal strategy is but also how they're going to treat this like a back alley fight, broken bottles. they're playing it in the court of public opinion, and maybe just simply hoping to throw up so much mud, so much slime, that everybody just doesn't want to pay attention. they want to look away. >> let me go to caroline on this question before i get to the next question. you know, they're making a big deal about the first anniversary of this investigation. the republicans pushed white water, which led to lewinsky, for four years, and i never heard a republican call the shot clock and say, it's 24 seconds, you got to give it up. four years was fine. they were going to follow clinton to the grave if they could have gotten that far. now they say, oh, a year is enough. who says it's enough, except richard nixon? your thoughts? is there a shot clock as they have in the nba or college basketball or investigators? >> no, there is not. certainly i've never been

involved in a federal criminal investigation that lasted under a year. we've seen 75 criminal charges here against 22 different defendants, five guilty pleas. by all accounts, mueller and his team are working at a breakneck pace. it's unlike anything i've ever seen before. the fact is federal criminal investigations of this nature take a long time, chris, because they have to get things right, okay? they have to pore over documents, witness interviews. these things take time. to say that, you know, we heard that quote there's no meat on the bones, it's absolutely ridiculous. we're in fact just getting to the meat on the bones right now. so i think it's a completely arbitrary cutoff date. maybe there are some people in the american public that feel like this is dragging on too long, but that's just probably because they're not getting all the information from, you know, mueller's side. >> by the way, i'd like to find out what happened too. i want more information. i'm as excited as anybody to find out how this thing ends up. after saying the president would decide whether to testify before mueller's prosecutors by next

thursday, rudy giuliani is today delaying that decision. quote, until after the president's summit. he's using that word now, with north korean leader kim jong-un next month. as giuliani now tells the associated press, i wouldn't want to take his concentration off something far, far more important. he sounds like dickens there. what is this about -- they want this thing to get faster, right? but they don't want to decide whether to testify until later. how can they end this thing if they won't end it? >> and trump is so busy that he won't be playing golf or tweeting this weekend. i'm sure of that. he'll be studying korean history all weekend long. that's what he'll be doing according to rudy giuliani. the thing is i think this to-do about whether trump testifies or not is almost besides the point. he is not a reliable witness to even what he believed or said at any given time. he will not give mueller any useful information.

i think he can't. and there is so much that mueller getting whether from michael cohen records or other testimony is going to be far more influential to possible indictments than anything coming from donald trump. it doesn't matter if trump testifies or not. but it gives -- >> are you kidding me? >> i'm not kidding you. >> don't you want answers like did you ever talk to paul manafort about russia? did you ever talk to michael flynn about russia? did you ever talk to roger stone about russia? >> i don't remember. you read depositions he's given in the past. >> i don't think that will be credible. >> it won't be credible, but it won't give him any useful information. >> natasha, i have a feeling this might be the old north vietnamese tactic of fight and talk at the same time. lots of meetings, lots of talk while he doesn't have to agree to testify. it doesn't happen. >> there's usually filibustering this as long as they possibly can. >> good word. >> mueller is already writing his obstruction report, right? he's already identified four

areas in which the president has allegedly obstructed justice, and he's writing that report and planning to release it by the summer whether or not trump testifies. so ultimately what david says is absolutely right. he doesn't really need trump's side of the story in order to determine that he did obstruct justice and try to end the investigation into his campaign. >> as we talk, more investigation. abc news is reporting that robert mueller is probing right now the donations made to trump's inaugural committee from americans with ties to foreign countries, like intrater. that includes donors with connections to russia, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates and qatar, many of whom contributed large sums. according to abc, mueller's prosecutors have asked about intrater, the cousin of viktor vekselberg, who has been at the center of the investigation of michael cohen. intrater, who donated to trump's inaugural committee in january of 2017, is alleged to have also routed payments to cohen's company totaling half a million dollars. charlie sykes, this smells. these cousins, you know, they're

like nephews in the old papal court. they're actually sons and daughters. i mean, excuse me. does anybody not think these people are working for their cousins in russia when they pour this money into the funds of the inaugural committee, the lavish excitement around donald trump, their guy? >> this is the most toxic part of the swamp when you think about it. going back to this arbitrary one-year deadline, every single week we find a new aspect. we learn something else about all of these connections. you know, david corn's book has documented all of this in great detail. what i find fascinating is that all of the strands, all of the t tentacles of trump world's corruption appears to be coming together. robert mueller has a picture. we don't know what he knows, but he's going into all of this, not just the conspiracy, not just the obstruction of justice, but things like money laundering and pay for play and the swampy influence peddling that went on.

this is an extraordinary investigation. it is extraordinarily complex, and it's moving actually rather extraordinarily rapidly. >> caroline, i wonder if there's a wall somewhere in the special counsel's operation here in d.c. somewhere where there's a big wall with people's faces on it, and all the lines drawn and arrows pointing from one to the other, trying to outline what they did what they did with the mob in the old days, figuring it all out? do you think they do it like that? secondly, those arrows pointing to the inaugural committee through cousins, it's illegal to pass money in you're a foreigner to an inaugural committee. >> it is illegal. i do think they certainly have a lot of tools at their disposal in terms of aggregating information and figuring out the connections. i would just say that, you know, prosecutors don't believe in coincidences. trust me, because i've tried to make that argument to them

before. they just don't believe in them. we're seeing a lot of coincidences here, a lot of seemingly coordinated effort. obviously there's a lot of smoke. you're right, chris. i mean this is swampy. there's no specific criminal behavior that's sort of out in the open as of yet because we know the federal bribery law is pretty narrow. you have to have a real quid pro quo, a real formal action. so far we haven't really seen that, but we're certainly getting close. >> anyone who doesn't see the russian connection to this administration refuses to see it. natasha bertrand, david corn, charlie sykes, and caroline polisi. coming up, the furor continues over that cruel remark made yesterday by a white house aide about senator john mccain. mccain's family is hitting back. but in a white house where anything goes, that awful kind of talk starts right at the top where the fish rots.

plus conservative comments with george f. will says that donald trump isn't the worst person in the trump administration. his vice president is. coming up, george will makes his case right here on "hardball." and trump might talk about draining the swamp, but his words don't mean much when you look at the actions of those closest to him. michael cohen, scott pruitt are two of the biggest swamp creatures in trump's orbit, and that's saying a lot. finally let me finish tonight with a preview of coming events. this is "hardball," where the action is. mom? dad? hi! i had a very minor fender bender tonight in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. but what a powerful life lesson. and don't worry i have everything handled. i already spoke to our allstate agent, and i know that we have accident forgiveness. which is so smart on your guy's part. like fact that they'll just... forgive you... four weeks without the car. okay, yup. good night. with accident forgiveness

your rates won't go up just because of an accident. switching to allstate is worth it. the winter of '77.uring i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru. in addition to casting doubt on the mueller probe, white house chief of staff general john kelly also defended the administration's hard line stance on immigration. general kelly argued that

undocumented immigrants don't have the skills to assimilate to life in this country. >> the vast majority of the people that move illegally into the united states are not bad people. they're not criminals. they're not ms-13. but they're also not people that would easily assimilate into the united states. they're overwhelmingly rural people in the countries they come from, fourth, fifth, sixth educations are kind of the norm. they're coming here for a reason. and i sympathize with the reason. but the laws are the laws. >> kelly's not the only white house staffer stirring controversy. there's growing outrage over the tasteless remark about senator john mccain. that's coming up next. we'll be right back. did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe?

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welcome back to "hardball." the family of senator john mccain is striking back at the white house after a trump administration staffer reportedly made a tasteless remark about the senator's ongoing battle with brain cancer. white house communications adviser kelly sadler dismissed

mccain's opposition to trump's pick for cia director, saying in a meeting, quote, he's dying anyway. well, senator mccain's wife fired back tweeting, may i remind you my husband has a family, seven children and five grandchildren. mccain's daughter, meghan, weighed in this morning on "the view." >> i don't understand what kind of environment you're working in when that would be acceptable, and then you can come to work the next day and still have a job. and that's all i have to say about it. >> today press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was asked about that. >> does kelly sadler still work at this white house? >> yes, she does. >> does the white house not think you need to contempt these remarks or -- >> again, i'm not going to validate a leak one way or the other out of an internal staff meeting. >> why not just apologize to senator mccain? >> again, i'm not going to get into a back and forth because, you know, people want to create issues of leaked staff meetings. >> i'm joined by e lelise jorda

former aide to george w. bush, and malcolm nance, a veteran of the united states navy and msnbc terrorism analyst. let me ask you about this. fish rots from the top. what do you make of that kind of comment passing? one person obviously didn't like it because they ratted her out. but somebody making a statement like that in a white house meeting. what do you make of that, elise? >> it all stems from the top, chris. it starts from the top. this is a president who has shown himself repeatedly to have an unparalleled ability to just unleash casual cruelty. you look at all of the numerous incidents targeting the gold star family, attacking a woman, a war widow, whose husband had just died. there is no limit. so of course it's unsurprising that this is the way that white house staffers behave. when donald trump is so consistently cruel himself. >> malcolm, what is it? just tough guy talk?

do you think it was done in some context we're missing because on the surface it sounds awful. what do you think it meant? why would you say something like that? does it show you're purposely publicly callous and you want to seem that way? i don't get it. >> this isn't tough guy talk, okay? for every member of the armed forces who has ever served understands the sacrifice that our prisoners of war have endured and have gone through. what we have here, it's a fish that's rotting from the top. this is donald trump's spirit that he has imbued the white house with. this is what he expects to hear from his staff. what upsets me the most -- i'm an old navy chief. old navy chiefs, we recalibrate trouble and people with problems up and down the chain of the command. when someone's wrong, we tell them they're wrong. what upsets me the most is that no one had the common sense or decency to tell her that this was wrong. they will never hear it again. and, in fact, she should have been terminated on the spot.

>> well, let's give a little prop here to fox news because they apparently bumped this guy -- this air force officer who referred to -- referred to john mccain as the songbird and that guy is apparently not going to be on there again. what do you make of that? >> i think that's great. charles payne came out and made an apology today. he said he didn't actually hear it while the statement was being made. i'll give him that on its face. but, you know, general mcinnerny has had a history of troubled statements. he was a birther from the original school of birtherism. and to come out and say that, he himself was a combat veteran that flew missions in vietnam. those guys who went down over hanoi and spent years and years in captivity, they need to understand that was a completely different circumstance. john mccain did not talk. john mccain resisted to his utmost and served with faith and honor and returned with honor. and so for -- granted, you can get rid of him as a guest.

but this is a mindset that has now imbued many trump voters. i hear veterans mimic this, and it's disgraceful. it's dishonorable, and it really needs to stop. >> president trump has repeatedly launched personal attacks against mccain. here's what then candidate trump had to say about the vietnam war veteran back in 2015 after mccain criticized him for firing up the crazies with some of his remarks about immigration. >> he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured, okay? i hate to tell you. >> news of the sadler's reported mark, that's the white house staffer who made the remark. former vice president joe biden issued a statement saying, people wondered when decency would hit rock bottom with this administration. it happened yesterday. given this white house's trail of disrespect of john and others, sarah huckabee sanders

was asked if the tone of the white house comes from the very top. >> certainly there is not a tone set here. we have respect for all americans, and that is what we try to put forward in everything we do both in word and in action. >> why do you think, elise, they're standing so strong on this? it's like a journalist saying we're sticking with our story. they're not doing anything to -- a little bit of wrist slapping is in order, some sort of apology, something that shows at least as an institution the white house doesn't think the way this one staffer spoke. >> chris, i think that the way the white house is behaving reflects the view that president trump has of his prior remarks on john mccain. he won't renounce what he said about john mccain not being a hero and that he liked his military -- his troops not captured. i think that they are more concerned about what president trump would think if they came out and waged a strong defense than doing and saying the right thing and apologizing and trying to move on from just a sorry

chapter in the history of the white house, that this kind of comment is being condoned about a man whose service to our country and his commitment to our country is really, you know, among few in american history. >> you know, malcolm, i was over there a couple years ago to hanoi to see that statue, that ugly statue of mccain where he was fished out of the water, beaten up. they beat him up like he was the worst person in the world. he's just never recovered obviously physically from what he endured. he was basically dive bombing into the enemy capital when he was shot down. he wasn't captured like he put his hands up in the field somewhere. he was going into the enemy's heart when he got shot out of his airplane. i don't understand what trump could possibly mean by he was just a captive. >> first off, that remark is disgusting, okay? donald trump deferred the draft

five times. he ran away from that war, so he doesn't get the right to say that, president or not. john mccain went to that war. he is one of three generations of mccains that now have a warship named after them. i doubt there will ever be a warship named after donald trump. >> you don't get warships named after you for dodging sexually transmitted diseases, because that's what he says was his vietnam. i'm not making this up. this is the way trump talks about this. his vietnam was dodging event aerial disease. >> disgraceful. john mccain went down in the smallest strike jet that we had, went down inside a lake, was fished out. was frog marched, paraded with a broken clavicle, then beaten relentlessly for five years, refused to be allowed to go home on a medical discharge because he knew it was disgrace his family and be used as propaganda. that man is an american hero, and we need to honor him. look, we know he's in his twilight, and as i like to say, you know, senator mccain, we have the watch.

you know, we should let him go on with respect. but, you know, one last thing i'd like to say, general dunzford, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, sergeant major of the marine corps, mass chief petty officer of the navy and top sergeant of the air force and have a sit-down with the white house staff about honor and show them that the military won't allow that kind of talk in the white house or out of it. >> i'm so glad, sir, a couple million people heard you just say that. somebody had to say it. thank you so much. up next, columnist george f. will says trump is no longer america's most repulsive public figure. he's here to tell us who is. hint, hint, it's mike pence. this is "hardball," where the action is. ♪ yly the best.

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and it really is great. it is really great to be here with a friend of mine. the man indiana voted overwhelmingly to make the 45th president of the united states of america, president donald trump. i'm here today because i stand with president trump. >> actually mike pence didn't always stand with donald trump, he reportedly contemplated a coup by the way after the access hollywood tape came out according to the atlantic within hours of the post's bombshell, pence made it clear to the

republican national committee that he was ready to take trump's place as the party's nominee. i wonder if trump knows that. he's come a long way since then, of course. as vice president, pension has serv -- pence has served as trump's most fervent defender. >> thanks to the leadership of president trump, welcome to the beginning of the end of obamacare. thank you for your boundless faith in the american people. president trump has been making history since the first day of this administration. >> i know i speak on behalf of the entire cabinet and of millions of americans when i say, congratulations and thank you. you've restored american credibility on the world stage. you've signed more bills rolling back federal red tape than any president in american history. you've spurred an optimism in this country that's setting records. i'm deeply humbled as your vice president to be able to be here. it's the greatest privilege of my life to serve as vice president to president trump. he's a man of his word.

he's a man of action. >> columnist george f. will labeled pence the worst person in government citing his talent for toadyism and appetite for obsequio obsequiousous. he's the authentic voice of today's lick spittle republican party. he pence is what he has chosen to be, which is horrifying. i'm joined by the author of those kind words, george f. will. the toadyism, why is he performing almost like he's in a religious service and trump is god? this is all prayerful language. >> well, his persona is devout. >> pious. >> he doesn't laugh often, i think, as far as i can tell. being vice president is an inherently difficult thing. you are completely derivtive figure. you are selected through no particular energy of your own for that person's purposes.

now, we began to see vice presidents treated well and seriously, i think, with jimmy carter and walter mondale. and since then, cheney and the rest have been treated well. >> i think cheney treated w. well. >> that's right. but because you're a derivtive figure and because you're there to magnify and amplify the will of someone else, it requires a moral center to not overdo it. >> let's take a look at this and see if this reminds you of our vice presidents. these are the lining up of the penguins in the antarctica. apparently it's very inefficient, has no purpose, but that's what they've done for generations of penguins. why is cheney -- not cheney in this case. why is pence so deliberate? doesn't trump ever get, i'm

embarrassed. lay off. pull it back a little bit. >> are you kidding? no. mr. trump and mr. pence knew this when he signed on, wants loyalty, and the loyalty has to be almost abject. it's for that reason i think mr. trump -- mr. pence threw a switch and said, i know what i'm signing on for. i'm going to do it. that doesn't make it any more pleasant. >> to make your point, a few low lights of mike pence's tenure as vice president to date. he flew into indiana only to walk out of a football game after several athletes net during the national anthem. it appeared to be a premeditated stunt according to a nbc reporter who was outside the stadium with pence's team. a staffer told that reporter the vice president meant to question part the game early. i asked pence to leave the stadium if any -- pence went out of his way to praise former maricopa county sheriff joe arpaio, who was convicted of

criminal contempt of court and later pashdenned by trump. pence called him a tireless champion of strong borders and the rule of law. just yesterday, pence called for an immediate end to the investigation of russian collusion. let's watch that. >> what i think is that it's been about a year since this investigation began. our administration has provided over a million documents. we've fully cooperated in, and in the interest of the country, i think it's time to wrap it up. and i would very respectfully encourage the special counsel and his team to -- to bring their work to completion. >> i have a sense that sometime in the future the democratic party is going to have to pick a candidate to defeat mike pence. what do you think? he'll be out there. he will have earned his right to the succession by this kind of -- this kind of toadying. >> it depends on whether the country eventually gets tired of this particular act. mr. trump is an entertainer. he came to us from television,

and he knows that things get stale. vaudeville was killed by television because everyone in the country saw the acts all at once. the question is does this ever lose its power to entertain? i suspect it will. i think another year from now is a very long time. >> who wins a national contest? nikki haley or mike pence for the republican nomination should that day come? >> haley. >> thank you so much. up next, president trump last night bragged to supporters about draining the swamp. remember that? he's still saying it but michael cohen and scott pruitt are perfect examples of just how much the swamp has thrived under this presidency. we'll get to that next with the "hardball" roundtable. you're watching "hardball." today, 97% of employers agree

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government honest once again. it's time to drain the swamp of corruption in washington, d.c., and we're going to do it. we're going to end the government corruption, and we're going to drain the swamp in washington, d.c. we are going to drain the swamp of government corruption in washington, d.c. and we are going to keep our promises, all of the promises that we made. >> welcome back to "hardball." throughout the campaign for president, his first year in office, donald trump vowed to make washington honest again by draining the swamp. last night in indiana he said he was fighting to deliver on that very promise. >> under my administration we're fighting against the lobbyists, the special interests, and the corrupt washington politics. >> perhaps trump hasn't seen a newspaper recently. on tuesday he found out that the president -- we found out his personal lawyer, michael cohen, was leveraging his role as trump's fixer by soliciting major fortune 500 companies and

promising access to this president. in the process, raking in as much as $2 million from corporate clients. one of those companies, at&t, today said hiring cohen, the president's lawyer, was a big miss stake. just last month, mick mulvaney told a room full of bankers that while he was in congress, he only talked to lobbyists if they gave him campaign money, in other words, if they ponied up. finally let's not forget epa administrator, scott pruitt, who is currently the focus of nearly a dozen investigations by ethics watchdogs, federal auditors and congressional committees. so does this administration still think that president trump is out there draining the swamp? we'll get to that next with the "hardball" roundtable.

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behind the golf clubs. get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. welcome back to "hardball." sarah huckabee sanders twisted herself today into a pretzel trying to swin michael cohen's business ties into an example of how the trump administration has drained the swamp. >> does the president think it was a mistake for his lawyer to work with them? >> i think this further proves that the president's not going to be influenced by special interests. this is actually the definition of draining the swamp, something the president talked about repeatedly during the campaign. and for anything beyond that, i would direct you to the president's outside counsel. >> for more, let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable, yamiche alcindor.

ken vogel, and clarence page. so what do we make of this amazing, shameless claim by trump that he's cleaned up everything when he's got this fixer out there with a shingle out, i can get you access to the president. he's doing it like all the old guys -- all the people -- i'm not going to mention their names now, but i grew up in a town where people did this. the guy gets elected. they don't want to work in the white house for 100 a year. they want to stay outside and make millions. this isn't new. but trump claiming he's different. >> i'll say two things. the first thing is if we want to include the white house perspective, is that they have all these people that don't have, quote, unquote, government experience running the white house. you think about people like ben carson, betsy devos. people said they didn't have the right experience, so they consider that draining the swamp. sarah sanders also said the reason why it wasn't effective or why they drained the swamp because the lobbying and the money they paid wasn't effective. it didn't change trump's mind, which is a pretty startling claim because she's saying that,

oh, it's okay that cohen took the money because it didn't really work. >> so his ambassadors are people who gave him money in the campaign. give me a break. >> the difference between these past administrations that you talked about where there are insiders who do try to cash in is that trump came to town with fewer keconnections to this typ of establishment k street power structure -- >> he has all his friends who like guys like scott pruitt because pruitt doesn't believe in the epa, so make him head of the epa. he doesn't want any environmental regulation. business, it's always going to cost them money and they're always going to be against it. his yob is to get rid of the regulations so they love him. he's the swamp creature. >> when you do get a businessman in the white house, this is what happened. propublica counted over 180 -- there have even more who have gotten waives so they can work

outside and act as consultants inside the government. this is kind of business as usual these days, but this is trump's idea of draining the swamp. >> if you talk to any business person, they want lower taxes. this guy delivered, right? he gave them what they wanted, all kind of reductions. he did what they wanted. he delivered as a lobbyist himself. second, they all wanted to get rid of environmental regulations. they put scott pruitt in there. every top rich businessman in the world should be 23for donal trump. he's their chief lobbyist. he doesn't need to be lobbied. he's one of them. >> that's also what the people voted for. >> you think the average guy in scranton or waukegan voted for -- >> i think they thought someone was going to change things up and what they got was someone who objectively done things that rich people and business people want. i've talked to some voters who definitely were like we need less regulations because my

small business needs to function more freely. >> ken? i think they voted for him for rebuilding america, which i have yet to see. and no stupid wars, certainly there are more coming. >> the fact that as you suggested, there are very wealthy constituencies in the republican party that do care very deeply about slashing environmental regulations is one of the reasons why scott pruitt is still hanging on despite all these scandals. he is delivering on something people in scranton may not care about, but -- >> in an upcoming memoir, john mccain reveals his regrets about not picking former connecticut senator joe lieberman as his running mate in 2008. in an exclusive interview today with nbc news, sarah palin, who was ultimately on that ticket with mccain, said that hurt a bit. let's watch her. >> i think i described it earlier as a gut punch. i will never disparage someone who has served our country and made a lot of sacrifices as a

vet now, and that's how i look at him, as someone who served all those years. i had a lot of respect for his maverick nature. i certainly have respect for many of the things that he's accomplished. >> clarence, that was well done. i like that sarah palin right there. >> yeah. even john mccain would like that sarah palin. this is no secret that mccain preferred joe lieberman. this was part of the high drama of that campaign, but he was being pressured from the right because conservatives didn't trust mccain already. having lieberman in there, a watered ideology down even more, so that was why sarah palin was perfect. many people pointed out it was a pivotal moment for the republican party, a big victory for the far right, which -- >> it was a hell of a movie by the way, game-changer. woody harrelson playing our

friend. what do you think of that sarah palin? >> i think she showed some class. let's remember that we're in this moment where it's almost like people are hitting rock bottom when it comes to joking about people that rock bottom w comes to joking people that are sick. >> if you're even reasonably decent you look pretty good right now. it's why people are saying look at george bush. so many people think war in iraq and katrina when you think of george bush but he's also have this renaissance when democrats are saying i miss the days of george bush. >> i'm waiting for him to totally disown dick cheney. that will be my happy day. ken, anybody looks okay now looks pretty good compared to trump. >> there's some re visivisionis going on, too. it's a warning to not be so hyperbolic when you try to

decry -- they're running out of comparisons to criticize trump. >> in the 1972 democratic convention, i was there, i said what's the danger of villainizing nixon? villainizing nixon? he said well stuck do here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands? i thought i was managing my moderate to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing...

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some women are inspired or at least motivated by president trump. >> sounds good. >> several of the companies that signed contracts or deals with michael cohen are trying to distance themselves from him. at&t said it was a mistake but my sources tell me that both at&t and chosquire patton were there shopping for trump-connected lobbyists. it makes sense but it shows it's a systemic things. >> they hire a whole bouquet of lobbyists for every corner of reaching the president. they grab everybody they can. they got so much money. it's chicken feed what they pay these guys. a million is nothing to these corporations. clarence. >> i was curious of kanye west. he coincidentally the two new singles coming out after endorsing donald trump. >> who is buying his records?

new clientele out there? >> neither one made the itunes top 50. one made the billboard 100. it's starting off slower than usual for kanye. >> when we return, let me finish with an upcoming anniversary.

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let me finish tonight with

this. earlier this week was down at the university of virginia to speak about my book "bobby kennedy, a raging spirit." this monday i'll do the show from florida in palm beach. the following monday i'll speak to the new york historical society, all in preparation for the 50th anniversary of robert kennedy's death june 2nd and this historic funeral train to arlington national cemetery where he was buried alongside his brother. what would it have been like had he not been gunned down a half century ago? my answer is an american presidency as unlike this one as humanly imaginable. bobby kennedy with all his heart, worked with all his heart to look out for the people society too often overlooked. me worked with all his heart to unite people, those who went to college and those who didn't, working class people and middle class people of all kinds. look at the people at the tracks that day, the african-american,

those with grief and reverence. discover for yourself this man who earned such reverence and gave america such hope. thanks for being with us. breaking tonight there's new that robert mueller is looking for the day that donald trump took office. and the white house sticking by an aide who mocked john mccain as unimportant because he may, as i'm paraphrasing, because he may die soon. and a top aide blasting i immigrants for having no skills. but we begin with something new. corporate america tonight reeling from this michael cohen/donald trump scandal, companies trying to buy political services to make their life easier. the tonight the senate asking for secret documents for