you always say, why didn't we go? why didn't we risk it? you know, breaking a federal law would be okay if i still had my daughter. so, we choose for life. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning, everyone. i'm dara brown in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it is 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. do the right thing. new calls today for an apology from the white house following what one republican senator calls a disgusting joke about john mccain. what deal? new details this morning from the trump attorney rudy giuliani on what the president knew and didn't know about michael cohen's deal with at&t. and sharing the spotlight, why jared kushner won't be front and center at tomorrow's embassy opening in jerusalem. we begin with a live picture of the white house pushing back on how it is handling the controversy surrounding the staffers' sensitive joke about

senator john mccain and dealing with mounting pressure from democrats to condemn it. the reaction from lindsey graham in an interview airing later this morning. >> it was a pretty disgusting thing to say. if it was a joke, it was a terrible joke. i just wish somebody from the white house would tell the country that was inappropriate. that's not who we are. and the trump administration and john mccain can be criticized for any political decision he's ever made or any vote he's ever cast, but he's an american hero. and i think most americans would like to see the trump administration do better in situations like this. it doesn't hurt you at all to do the right thing and to be big. >> graham stopping short saying president trump should apologize on behalf of that staffer. >> i'll leave that up to him. but if something happened like that in my office, somebody in my office said such a thing about somebody, i would apologize on behalf of the office. >> we'll bring in melanie and

julie from "the hill." great to have you both here this morning. >> thank you for havingmelanie, not deny standing by the staffer in its fourth day. why won't the white house apologize and put this to rest? >> this is another controversy of the white house's own making. i think they came out. instead of condemning the comments themselves, they have been more offensive in condemning the leak. they could have tapped this whole thing down if they would have taken responsibility and said, yes, this comment was made. it's inappropriate. we're going to take some actions, probably reprimand this official who made the comment, but instead you saw sarah sanders sit at the podium and say, i'm not going to talk about this. and this person still has a job, if it's also overshadowing good achievements for the president this week, between the detainees being released from north korea, the summit being officially announced, the date and the time. i just think this is typical of the white house.

you have a lot of in-fighting, a lot of the leaks that are motivated. it's not to protect john mccain. some of the leaks are probably the result of some of the inner fighting between the communications team. but this white house has refused to apologize for a lot of comments. and this is just the latest one. >> and julia, let's talk about the leaks. because i'll play a part of jonathan swan's interview with my colleague alex witt yesterday. he's the reporter who broke the story on how air sarah sanders' meeting came out about the leak. >> you said there were five sources about the leak. how many people were in that room? >> oh, at least more than 20 in the room. so it was a big meeting. so it's the communications and press team. if it's truly unheard of, you did not have this in the obama administration. you did no have in the george w. bush administration. this is not an aberration. this is the path for now almost 16 months. >> julia, to have five sources

confirm this story, to be so specific about what was said in that meeting, how big of a deal is that? >> it's a huge deal. but dara, i have to tell you, this is not surprising. this really brings back to my memory the common a couple months ago president trump made during a bipartisan meeting in the white house on immigration. he referred to some african country as asshole countries. we see the white house reacted in a similar way. they didn't deny. and there was not necessarily a formal apology. and i think, mick mulvaney's comments have stuck out to me over the past few days, in that he said, basically, this was a comment that was made behind closed doors. it was meant as a joke. it's not a big deal. that sends a very different signal than formally apologizing for that. and i think that definitely solidifies the white house's stance on this. and mercedes shlap's defense on

this is sending a signal of how the white house is handling this. and the fact they are more concerned about the leak itself than the actual comment, which was extremely offensive. >> and melanie, going back to jonathan swan talking about the leaks out of this white house to previous administrations, why do you think the leaks are so prevalent? and you would think by now they would have gotten rid of the leakers? >> well, it really comes from the top down. you had john kelly coming in last summer who tried to get a hold on things and try to bring some order. but you really see his influence weighing over the past couple months. we have seen the white house return to this chaotic, free-wheeling operation that we saw in the early days of this administration. it's only continuing. and this is very problematic for the white house. this is not a controversy going on several days when it could have been done within one day if they would have handled it the correct way. >> and turning to another controversy, julia, we'll look at the russia investigation because thursday marks one year since special counsel robert mueller was appointed. and in a new poll, it finds 13%

of republicans who say the investigation is legitimate. 75% for senate republicans agreed with president trump and said it is a witch hunt. julia, does this suggest to you that the strategy to discredit mueller is actually working? >> yeah, i think the republicans have really taken a cue from the white house in running, in how to run with the whole mueller investigation. i think going up to the midterms, republicans are going to focus on issues such as the economy. i think their base doesn't necessarily care. the average american, for that matter, doesn't necessarily care about all of the developments and the mueller investigation. however, i think the bigger point at hand is the fact that they are taking a cue from the administration about how to handle this. i think robert mueller himself is a republican. that's a fact. and i think when he was first appointed, a lot of republicans were very supportive of his appointment. they said he would be fair, unbiased, wrap this up in a timely manner. however, the investigation has continued. and there could be political

consequences. in the long-term for the administration, possibly for republicans. so i think they are certainly taking a cue from the president because the administration and republicans are frustrated with it. >> and melanie, would it help the mueller investigation if they gave the public something, especially as it relates to collusion? >> well, look, i think there's the tale of the two investigations. you have both in the house side and the senate side two separate probes. the house one completely divulged into political bickering. you have conservative allies going on to say we should impeach rosenstein over this document request. and there's the senate side in terms of their bipartisan effort working behind the scenes to interview people. but look, it's unclear whether mueller is coming out with something before the midterm election. certainly there's a lot of pressure on the senate side to get something out, but i think at the end of the day, america is so polarized over this issue that i'm not sure it will make a difference either way in how people vote in the midterm

elections zplchl we'll talk about the midterm elections. julia, democrats are telling one of your colleagues they are starting to worry the approved economy under president trump could lead to republicans maintaining control as opposed to the blue wave that they were banking on. julia, what do you think democrats are saying? and is there a strategy to combat this without dismissing the economic uptick? >> right, right. i think democrats are concerned because so many voters often say the economy is the number one issue that they vote on. and it's no question that the economy has improved under president trump. and the trump administration has certainly touted the benefits of the tax reform. however, i would like to point out that a lot of republicans are very concerned as well because they believe that they're not seeing enough benefits in terms of public opinion on the tax bill or even the economy at this point. and senator john thume made an interesting point a few days ago. he told my colleague that it was, right now, it's hard to see

the benefits of the tax reform bill because they -- the taxpayers haven't filed their taxes yet. so possibly in a few years, another year, they will see those benefits come into play. however, i think americans have also seen various corporations like starbucks and fedex announce the benefits their workers would receive from the tax bill. and i think that certainly plays a role in the public opinion. but i think the big point at hand is there is anxiety on both sides. >> melanie, as julia's pointing out, the article points out republicans are not feeling supper confident that the voters will reward them for the economy. what is that about? >> there's a lot of nervousness behind closed doors. i can tell you, this is the number one thing republicans talk about in the gop conference meetings. they say we need to message, message, message, sell, sell, sell the tax reform. it is not reaching voters' ears in this way they thought it would be. and the republicans are wanting

something else to give the voters besides the tax law. and that it is not enough. and if the popularity is not there by november, they need something else to tell voters to get them to vote republican other than a tax law that is not that popular. >> julia, we'll talk about that something. we'll get back to this later because we have to talk about the wall. julia, melanie, stay with us. we'll have you back. and what trump attorney rudy giuliani says they plan to make a little fuss about. that's coming up. i'm ryan and i quit smoking with chantix. i would doubt myself that i could actually quit. that i could climb that hill and get over it.

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which is why i have xfinity xfi. it's super fast and you can control every device in the house. [ child offscreen ] hey! let's basement. and thanks to these xfi pods, the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. new details in the knife attack on the streets of paris. a man went on the rampage in the opera district of the french capital. one person was killed and four wounded before police shot and killed the assailant.

>> i heard that people were stabbed. >> the paris prosecutor said witnesses heard the suspect shout "allah akbar" during the attack. he was on a watch list for being radicalized. and new attorney from rudy giuliani this morning that insists president trump didn't intervene to nix the at&t/time warner merger. they say the president was out of the loop on michael cohen's consulting deal with at&t. we'll go to the legal analyst danny sovalis. good morning to you. they said the president did not block the at&t/time warner merger. and he acknowledged the $600,000

payment to cohen. what do you make of this. >> reporter: these statements really fit with the law, at least as giuliani's team wants to see it. if he says the president knew nothing about the payments to cohen, that's critical. because under anti-corruption laws, the key, whether we're talking bribery or extortion, is some official involvement and some official act. so trump needs separation, at least to be from the criminal laws. >> i want to talk about that because the latest piece for msnbc.com reads that novartis allowed a contract with cohen and essential consult about thes to lapse early in 2018 because it could cause anger. if the claims could be proven, like extortion, are these charges a possibility? >> extortion can be, hey, give me your money or we'll knock over your trucks. but there was a second thing

added by congress, which is official right extortion, which is misuse of public office. so again, with all the statutes, the key is to what extent did trump know about it. and to what extent did these victims, and by victims, the statute would envision corporate victims that cohen would have gone to and said, hey, give me money if you want your merger to go through or something else. again, this is just a theory of criminal liability that could lie under federal statutes. as long as the victims reasonably believe that cohen was telling the truth and that this official could do what he was threatening to do, then that's potentially extortion under the hobbs act. but a lot of things need to happen. it's not certain that private individuals can be held liable under the hobbs act. and again, i can't stress enough, it all rests on what trump knew and what his involvement was, if any at all, and that's why you see

giuliani's statement after the fact, that conforms very nicely with the defense theory of this case, which is trump never knew, trump was never involved, therefore, no anti-corruption laws can possibly apply to trump. cohen, maybe, but that's not giuliani's problem. >> and stormy daniels' attorney says cohen formed a relationship with a d.c. law firm. here's michaeling avenueavenatt. >> why was he going to be allowed to come to the law firm? he had sold a book of clients that gave him access to the president. that needs to be the next inquiry. >> danny, what is your assessment on this? >> reporter: avenatti is smart. just a couple years ago, the definition of what an official act and the quid pro quo was

required to sustain a conviction was very broad. but then the supreme court in a case called mcdonald reeled that in somewhat and essentially said, the mere sale or receipt of goodies in exchange for access to an official is not by itself enough to rise to the level of a crime. so mere setting up meetings, maybe parties, something like that, the access alone will not be enough. it's the actual official act in the form of an official doing something or influencing some decision before him or her in exchange for those goodies. so merely selling access without more after mcdonald may not be enough for criminality. anything beyond that, the supreme court essentially made clear that it could very easily fall into the category of criminal behavior. >> and danny, giuliani tells nbc news they, quote, plan to make a fuss in the length of the

investigation. and he delayed the trump interview until after the north korean summit of june 12th. but next month it could be another crisis. will there ever be a good time for this interview? or will trump's lawyers keep pushing this back because he's the president, after all? >> giuliani could get a lot of success out of just sticking with one theme. and the theme would be the president is busy with north korea. we're looking at potential peace in pyongyang. that is why we are not addressing russia. and if he just stuck to that bullet point, he would come off a lot better instead of making noise about ending the mueller probe or making hay about it not being completed. number one, investigations, white collar investigations at the do jorks rj routinely last years. something of this scale could last longer than it is right now. and secondly, u.s. attorneys like prosecutors everywhere don't like defense attorneys

criticizing them. it's just not helpful. the risk is not worth the reward. and there's no advantage to making hay about the length of the mueller investigation. so, my advice would be, stick to the bullet point about the potential peace in north korea. and don't criticize the special counsel or any u.s. attorney anywhere any time. >> danny cevallos, great to have you. jared kushner is out of the spotlight, why won't he be front and center? that's next.

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countdown to the midterms. the fight for control of capitol hill. 177 days remain before voters go to the poll. meanwhile, new analysis of voter sentiment shows them overall leaning democratic. an average of generic polling over the past 12 months shows democrats leading by just over seven points.

the white house aide ivanka trump is in jer usalem to mark the embassy move ahead from tel aviv. joined by jared kushner who will also be there. but politico reports that the president's son-in-law will be on the ground as an attendee and not as a leader. julia manchester, what are the dynamics in play here since kushner was the one handling matters in the middle east? >> right, kushner was brought on to broker peace between the israeli and palestinian sides of the conflict. but a few things have changed since that. mike pompeo is now secretary of state and has proven himself to be quite a bit of a stronger leader in that regard than rex tillerson's state department was. mike pompeo has had a bunch of successes during his very short tenure of secretary of state in terms of north korea. and i think the trump administration will want to capitalize on that by putting

pompeo front and center on that. and i think before kushner was seen as a shadow secretary of state. so that's certainly changed. another thing is i think the administration wants to be very cautious in how they roll this out. because within the last week, the decision on the iran deal has had a huge number of geopolitical consequences in the region. we have seen that iran does support the shea majority of palestinian people in that region. so i think the administration wants to be careful with how they roll this out, because i think it's already so volatile in their policies in that region. so they're just trying to be careful. >> and melanie, what dow yo make of the apparent demotion of kushner, if you will? >> on the one hand, it's not surprising. he's kept a much lower profile this year, especially as some of his own business dealings have come under scrutiny. but as julia points out, this is a reflection of pompeo coming in and wanting to take a much larger role than his

predecessor. rex tillerson also reportedly did not want this embassy move. he was clashing with the white house about this idea to begin with. so the fact that you're seeing pompeo come in and some of his deputies to be the leader as opposed to kushner is not entirely surprising, but it does come as kushner is under scrutiny. so perhaps that has something to do with it. >> and julia, should we expect policy announcements on mid-east peace? >> like i said before with the iran deal, i think it will be very difficult at this point. i think the trump administration has shown that they're clearly siding with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's government in this. and the palestinian leader mahmoud abbas -- there's a ton of tension between him and the trump administration at this point. and i don't think the decision on the iran deal in the part of the trump administration really bodes well for peace because of the closeness between iran and the palestinian government.

>> julia manchester, melanie, great to have you here on this sunday. at the top of the hour, the commissioner is out of prison and committed to fighting excessive sentencing. but first, "your business" is up next. i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we're not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland. so, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com.

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to go, know, and take control of your health. mr. elliot, what's your wiwifi?ssword? wifi's ordinary. basic. do i look basic? nope! which is why i have xfinity xfi. it's super fast and you can control every device in the house. [ child offscreen ] hey! let's basement. and thanks to these xfi pods,

the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. good morning. coming up on msnbc's "your business" we all love our moms, but when customers told the owner of this glassware company their mothers loved her product, she knew it was time to change things up. what the founder of 305 fitness had to do to standout in a crowded market. and she created an all natural anti-ageing skin care product. will these hsn executives let her sell it on their network? when it comes to making business decisions, we've got your back. so let's grow fast and work smart. that's all coming up next on "your business."