investigating the russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. >> the president informed comey that he's been terminated and removed from office. >> when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. it's an excuse. >> the justice department has just announced a special counsel to lead a new investigation into russian influence in the election. >> oh yeah. it's been a long and winding road to that final sound bite exactly one year ago today. the appointment of a special counsel. now that road is taking a straight line the people surrounding the president. and this morning, we have new details on a number of the big players, including michael cohen, don jr., rudy giuliani, who gave me my wish, who is offering a new defense against claims of presidential collusion. he went on tv yesterday. good morning, everyone, welcome to morning joe, it is thursday, may 17th.

with us, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray "richard haass who has some nice things to say about john bolton today. great to get to that. especially on his input on north korea, the situation there. former assistant director of the fbi's counterintelligence division, frank biglusi. former chief of staff at the c.i.a. and department of defense, nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash is with us and nbc news national political reporter heidi przybilla. joe is off this morning. willie and i have got it here. there's a lot to get to. president trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani, went on television again last night and seemed to indicate that the trump campaign did get dirt on hillary clinton from the russians. i don't think he meant to do that, did he? yesterday the senate judiciary committee opened up their books

on their interyous of the top campaign officials on the june 2016 trump tower meeting between trump campaign officials and russians. who knew what and when about the controversial summit that stayed secret for more than a year. testimony from russian participants cast more doubt on donald trump jr.'s original claim that the meeting was to discuss russian adoptions, witnesses said, he began the meeting by asking for information on hillary clinton. trump jr. was questioned about the email he received before the meeting telling him quote, of quote russia and the government's support for mr. trump. asked if he thought that would be problematic, the president's son replied, i didn't think that listening to someone with information relevant to the fitness and character of a presidential candidate would be an issue. no. it was an argument seconded by

rudy giuliani last night. but that's not all rudy said. >> remember june of 2016? that's about when i joined the campaign. nobody is going to focus on a russian woman who says that she has, false information about hillary clinton. turns out she wants to negotiate sanctions and they throw her out basically. when she wants to meet again, they don't meet with her. who would, i would remember that. i had people coming up to me saying all kinds of things about hillary and i'm willing to believe almost anything about her. get rid of them. when i ran against them they were looking for dirt on me every day. that's what you do. maybe you shouldn't, but you do. nothing illegal about that. and even if it comes from, from a russian or a german or, an american, it doesn't matter. and they never used it. is the main thing, never used it. they rejected it. if there was collusion with the russians they would have used it. >> they would have used it. what is "it," willie? i thought they said they got nothing.

so they got something? i'm confused. >> the "it" is the dirt that they were promised coming into the meeting and they according to mr. giuliani, they didn't think there was anything to the dirt so they put the dirt to the side. >> so rudy helps the mueller folks, i guess. >> the equation he made between opposition research on a presidential campaign, which we see in every presidential campaign. and every campaign ever. and a foreign entity, a foreign government, russia, giving him information. are those two the same thing? >> at best here what we have is complete naivete and ignorance of how the world works and what's legal and not legal. so when senior campaign advisers agree to sit down with russian representatives under the premise of receiving dirt on a fellow american candidate, there's a problem. they don't alert the fbi. they don't seek counsel. but rather they become quite

livid when the dirt doesn't materialize at the meeting and we have reports of jared kushner being indignant and leaving. >> them not using the dirt, does that matter or the fact of them meeting in a room together, a problem. >> collusion, the loose definitions that we have doesn't require the fact that it's successful. it's that you're colluding with an adversarial government, possibly in violation of the law. >> does rudy mess up the case? >> he said something that potentially harms the president every time he's gone on the air. >> there are other stories this morning. so we'll get back at that. because we got to go to the definition of what "it" is. think we've been there before. >> and there are new ethics questions for president trump after disclosing on financial forms he reimbursed michael cohen for the stormy daniels' payment. disclosure came on page 45 of the 92-page report it claims in the interests of transparency while not required to be disclosed as reportable

liabilities, in 2016, expenses were incurred by one of trump's attorneys, michael cohen. the report claims that cohen sought reimbursement of those expenses and that trump quote fully reimbursed cohen in 2017. however, the government ethics chief disputes that cohen's payment was an expense, therefore, not required to be reported. in a letter to deputy attorney general rod rosenstein the acting ethics director writes that based on information froms president's disclosure, quote, the payment made by mr. cohen is required to be reported as a liability. the ethics chief said that ends his letter by telling the deputy ag that he's providing him with the president's financial reports from last year and this year, quote, because you may find the disclosure relevant to any inquiry you may be pursuing regarding the president's prior report signed last year. >> so frank, the president of the united states declares on his financial form that he

repaid michael cohen between $100,000 and $250,000. this morning, how many points of peril does this put the president in in. >> i come up with three scenarios. two of them are awful for the president. the first one, lacks cree dult. that is that the president knew nothing about the payments, he's a good guy trying to re pay his lawyer, cohen, who tells him after the fact, i need compensation. we've gone beyond that because giuliani has said that the president knows michael takes care of such things. scenario number two is the that president knew this was being done. he knew fictitious corporations might be set up. he knew a bank, a loan might have been set up fictitiously and there was money laundering or foreign governments involved. that makes him a co-conspirator for those underlying violations. the third scenario is he found out later that things done were illegal and he paid michael back. that makes him an accessory after the fact.

he's in trouble. >> just to be very clear, we're really, i can't imagine anybody at this table is interested in the president's personal relationship with a porn star or anybody else. but at this point, there's definitely a clear line that is drawn between the president, and stop me if i'm wrong and michael cohen and money to a porn star, though ho claims that there was an affair. the president has yet to admit to the affair. but there's a line of money that goes to this woman right before the election and it appears to be to silence her for an affair. am i correct? >> yes, you're correct. and the question will become how much did the president know about the methodology of this payment. and whether there were illegalities underlying that payment. that's what none of us know, including the president, because the president doesn't use email. so he doesn't know what the fbi seized in michael cohen's offices. how did cohen document every conversation with the president? the fbi has that. >> so the fbi has that. but even more, jeremy bash,

national security issues would be -- that first of all, are there other women. second of all, can this president be bribed or blackmailed. and the timing of these payments right before, this is, this is clearly an issue that the american people unfortunately, it matters to them. it's not a personal story of some cheap disgusting affair the president might have had. unfortunately we have to talk about this, because the president might be a danger if there are multiple situations like this and he can be pressured perhaps give information away or be used by the russians, because a woman could shake him down for $130,000 or more. >> that's right. the reason these financial disclosure forms in our government are so vital, so important, not just for transparency, we want to understand to whom a president of the united states is indebted. because obviously that person has leverage, financial but also potentially political leverage

over a president, over our elected officials, so if these forms are inaccurate, sometimes there's a clerical error and that's generally forgiven but if it's knowing concealment, willful efforts to conceal or hide payments, places where the president is indebted, that's a federal crime. if we uphold the standard that the president is no more above the law than anybody else, anybody unless our government. anybody else in our society, i agree with frank, the president has some explaining to do. >> let's get to another layer of this story. republican leaders on the senate intel committee say they agree with u.s. intelligence agencies that russia interfered in the 2016 election. and that moscow favored donald trump in the race. committee chairman richard burr, republican, said in a statement yesterday, he saw no reason to dispute the conclusions made by the intelligence community. senator burr's state is at odds with republican members of the house intelligence committee, who do not support the conclusion that russia sought to help trump win. last month, the house intel

committee released a report be a solving the trump campaign of aiding in russia's election interference, describing contacts between trump associates and russians as ill-advised meetings. president trump was quick to claim vindication when the house intel report came out, labelling the russia probe a total witch hunt and calling for an end to the investigation. heidi przybilla as you watch this on the hill, how are they accounting for the discrepancies between the two reports, devin nunes has been a defender publicly and privately of president trump. senator richard burr, not quite as much. >> this is likely to be the first of several embarrassing revelations for nunes and the house intelligence committee. at the time they shuttered their investigation, there were groups such as the whoco project which looked at the gaping holes in that investigation. up to 80% of the witnesses not even talked to or brought back for questioning, a lot of

witnesses who came before the committee panel were allowed to invoke privileges that it was unclear they even have. their conclusion that they saw no evidence of collusion, largely stemmed from the fact that critics say they didn't really look. they didn't really look too hard. so as this investigation continues, unabated on the senate side, we are seeing now, the release, for instance, about the information about the trump tower meeting. there will be additional revelations, as the senate intelligence committee continues, a thorough investigation, you know releases more information. and the beginning here for instance, that the whole premise of this trump tower moscow meeting as you talked about earlier, was in fact to get dirt on hillary clinton, is now confirmed by those documents, there will be more to come. >> mike in. >> richard, you know it's quite easy for all of us, in the news business to get carried away with the focus on donald j.

trump and everything that happens to him, every day, multiple times a day. but russia, russia is a huge story today in this world. i would hope that you would address that. i mean given their role in the middle east. given their role, their growing role in world order, in interfering. not just in our domestic politics, but allegedly in other countries. where is russia headed? >> russia has emerged in some ways as the great outlier. it is the great opponent. what we used to call the liberal world order. what's so interesting about it is how little russia has to play with. and the returns they get. this is essentially a poor country with a shrinking population. about 142, 143 million people. no economy to speak of, other than they produce oil and gas. but look what they've doan. they've interfered in elections around the world. vladimir putin is like an investor who puts down $50 and

walks away with $5,000. talk about return on investment. russia has gotten oversized returns with very little. and there's no reason to think they'll stop. this is working for him. he has nothing to point to at home. his domestic legacy is he inherited a country and he's going to leave a wreck to whoever that is. but internationally he has basically had outsized gains for very modest capabilities and investments. >> we're going to go back now this is going to bring us back to rudy giuliani. who i actually just -- personally, have not ever seen a more undisciplined big mouth, except for the president himself. who is actually time he speaks on television, seems to create more problems for the president of the united states and helps out the investigators looking into everything surrounding the president. speaking on behalf of donald trump's legal team, giuliani says special counsel robert mueller's office told him that

they cannot bring criminal charges against the president. giuliani told nbc news that the reason is due to justice department rules. quote they know they don't have that power, so their function is to write a report. we would like it to be the fairest report possible. but even if it isn't, we're prepared to rebut it in great detail. so we'd like them to do it. giuliani told the "washington post" robert costa, that mueller was coy when discussing an indictment. he didn't seem to want to give the answer. one of his assistants broke in and said of course we're bound by justice department policies. according to giuliani, mueller looked at the assistant as if to say, don't interrupt me. giuliani said, they confirmed they would not indict in a call a day or two later. on fox news last night, giuliani said he wouldn't give much credence to a negative report from mueller. >> there's no reason for this investigation. there never was a good reason for it in the first place. this was engineered by comey. i'm still hopeful that when it

comes down to it, they're not going to impair their reputation with a bogus report. if you're going to write a fair report, fine, write it if you write an unfair report, write it and we'll combat it we're ready to rip it apart and we're ready to rip them apart. >> jeremy bash, rudy giuliani, is he helping the president's case at this point? and does he understand what this report is really about? >> no. and i think he revealed, mika, something that we've been discussing but hasn't been confirmed by someone who has talked directly to the special counsel, which is that the special counsel is indeed writing a report. that was a question some folks' minds. some people said if bob mueller found nothing upon which to file criminal charges, woe just basically file a short memo with the justice department declining prosecution. sort of a declension memo. if the special counsel writes a very fulsome report about all the conduct at issue going back to russian interference in the election, extending through the obstruction of justice issue,

that is what will be teed up for the congress to consider as it weighs the weighty issue of impeachment. >> rudy giuliani in the last couple of weeks has said out loud all the things we assume but are not supposed to say out loud. we're prepared if this is negative to tear it down. all these interviews we're doing, everything we've said about the fbi and implied about bob mueller and said about the justice department is to delegitimize whatever is reported and comes out of bob mueller's office. he doesn't know what bob mueller is working on specifically. we don't know what bob mueller has exactly. we do know there have been indictments, there have been plea deals, we've seen outcomes from this investigation. whatever comes out it seems to me, unless it completely exonerates donald trump, the white house and rudy giuliani and their team as he said out loud on fox news last night, will be torn to shreds by the white house. >> the phrase "tear it down" is telling. it says we don't have substantive legal strategy, we'll continue to tear down the

institutions and the people who got us here. that's number one. number two, the kinds of words and phrases we're hearing from mr. giuliani are not the words of a substantive serious lawyer. they're some kind of desperate pr spin he's hoping people will latch on to. throwing out something like they can't indict because there's policy against it, he wants people to actually believe that. and actually believe that mueller won't challenge policy if he believes he can prosecute the president. >> mike barnicle, what has happened to rudy giuliani? >> who knows? well first of all, one thing clearly has happened, he hasn't been in a courtroom in 25 or 30 years. so on his feet, in terms of what he's talking about, and the law, when you see him on fox news, that's not a lawyer speaking, that's a performer. it's exactly what frank has said. >> he showed up last week in broward county, florida, and represented an accident fraud victim who was a client. but that's about it. >> yeah. >> there's something different, there's something morally unhinged. i mean i thought i don't agree

with a lot of his policies and political points of view. i thought he had some great moments in his career. as an american. >> well, he did. but he's well past that. >> is that what it is? >> well i think he, i think he wants to get back into the spotlight, into the limelight. >> no matter what. >> he's attached himself to donald trump, hoping that will recreate what he once was. i clearly -- >> the goal appears to be finding meaning once again. >> am i the only one who sees something different, though? >> he's gone from america's mayor to trump's lackey. >> willing to dirty himself for this guy. doesn't it end badly? >> it looks like it's headed that way. >> frank figlusi, thank you very much. still ahead, there's another angle to the russia collusion question, with a big front-page story in the "times" today, we'll dig through the details about the fbi's closely held investigation the trump campaign that started before the

president won the election. plus, did john bolton torpedo the north korea summit? richard haass, has thoughts on that today. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast and we have thoughts about you, bill. >> we're saving money on sunscreen, that is for sure. no reason to water the grass, it's just been one of those weeks in the northeast and it's going to continue into the weekend. we have a flash flood threat coming as we go through tonight to tomorrow morning. light rain continues, new york city is getting soaked. d.c. and philly getting a little break. there's showers towards the appalachians and west virginia. the heaviest rain late tonight and through tomorrow, flood watches up through morgantown, west virginia, harrisburg, philadelphia, atlantic city, washington, d.c., baltimore, are included in the flood watch, about 22 million people. here's the rainfall forecast. this is going to be out through sunday. the majority of it, will be in the next 48 hours. the red is three inches of rain. there's a little pink near baltimore here, possibility up

to four inches of rain. we're going to see all types of flooding, flash flooding, urban flooding, stream and river flooding by the time we're done with this event. it's going rain in southern new england and in florida. just not as heavily. and let me give you the timing of it today, there's the rain around d.c., by the time we get to this evening. a little break from new york to d.c., showers and storms through the carolinas and also atlanta. we'll get airport delays with the low visibility and the rain from washington, d.c. down to atlanta. so apologize for you know the horrible forecast this week but we're hoping to get you a little bit of sunshine in d.c. by sunday, yeah, sunday, i said. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ i just want you close, where you can stay forever. ♪ ♪ you and me together ♪ through the days and nights. ♪ i don't worry ♪ 'cause everything's ♪ gonna be all right.

♪ no one, no one, no one ♪ can get in the way ♪ of what i feel for you. no one thought much of itm at all.l people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here.

hey julie, i know today's critica...a sick day. need... dads don't take sick days... dads take dayquil severe. the non-drowsy, coughing, aching, fever, sore throat, stuffy head, no sick days, medicine. the dual adjustability of the sleep number bed allows each of you to adjust to your ideal level of firmness, comfort and support... your sleep number setting... for your best... sleep... ever. and snoring? does your bed do that? right now during sleep number's semi-annual sale its' the lowest price ever on the queen c4 mattress, only $1099 - save $500. and save up to $500 on sleep number 360 smart beds. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you.

oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. xfinity mobile: find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. this tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it's a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. we're going to hash out the michael cohen angle at the top of the 7:00 hour, but frank figluzzi, i'm curious, i'm watching the cohen story, i'm

watching him, even his appearance is changing a bit. he's got to be under an unbelievable amount of stress. the big question is will he flip. the question i have for you is. can he flip enough to save himself at this point from going to jail? >> he's one of the few people that i believe can raise the flag and say i've got what you need. and i think that's going to happen. when he sees the federal sentencing guidelines, the criminal exposure he has, he goes back to his family and says you're not going to see me for decades, he's going to flip. and how does he save himself? he talks about the big man. he talks about the president of the united states. >> so he could avoid jail time if he flipped enough? >> i believe if he provides criminal exposure of president trump he's looking at minimal, minimal prison time, or a complete recommendation that he do nothing but -- >> it's fascinating. he hasn't been indicted for anything, but your gut watching this is -- >> he's headed to serious criminal exposure and serious prison time if he doesn't flip.

>> okay. >> there were more stories out yesterday showing that. we'll talk about those in a few minutes. meanwhile, president trump yesterday responded to north korea's threat to pull out of his summit with kim jong un. >> we'll have to see. >> no decision, we haven't been notified at all. we'll have to see. we haven't seen anything, we haven't heard anything. we will see what happens. whatever it is -- we'll see what happens. we'll see. time will tell. >> and the reasoning for potentially canceling the meeting, north korea singled out trump's national security adviser, john bolton. who recently said the same strategy used in the nuclear negotiations with libya should be used with north korea. >> i think that's what denuclearization means. and we have very much in mind the libya model from 2003-2004. there are obviously differences, the libyan program was much

smaller. by none straighting they've made a strategic decision to give up nuclear weapons, it would be possible to move quickly. the libya case demonstrates. full, complete, total disclosure of everything related to their nuclear weapons program, with full international verification, i think following libya, verification by america and other inspectors, is could be very important here. >> that's the national security adviser, john bolton. let's recap what happened in libya. in december of 2003, gadhafi gives up his nuclear weapons, eight years he's shot dead by his own people. do you believe john bolton cost president trump his meeting with kim jong un. >> it's too soon to say he cost the meeting. but to say the president was not well served by his new national security adviser is diplomatic. what he's basically doing is defining american objectives publicly in advance, in a way that looks like north korea is not being comed to negotiate. but being asked to come to

capitulate. there's no way that north korea went through all of these years to build up nuclear capability simply to give it up as a price for getting through the door. if i didn't know better i would think what the national security adviser was doing was defining success in a way that could never be met. and setting up the summit to fail. now, if that's what the president wants to get no summit. in which by definition, it fails, or he gets a summit in which there's to way that the north koreans agree to the ambitious definition of disarmament to say he's not well served. people say the president, people ought to take his telephone away. he ought to take the right to go on television away from some of his closest aides because they're not serving the president well. >> he puts out a statement, denuclearization is off the table that seems to be the entire point of the negotiation with north korea. how does the united states proceed from here? >> the problem wlt presentation by john bolton wasn't so much

that he publicly described the objectives for the summit. he said that the objective is the libya model. which is regime change. not mere denuclearization. i do think it's important for u.s. officials to say the objective is denuclearization and i'm concerned. because all the theatrics and ego aside, the substance of kim gyi wan's the first foreign minister's statement. is that they will not go into discussions even considering denuclearization. that's off the table. and if that's off the table we can discuss things like exchange of prisoners and confidence-building measures and ways to have harmonious relations between the north and south. but we have to be wary and proceed with caution, the president has to prepare carefully for a very difficult negotiation. >> not sure there's the capacity to do that in this white house. my only point of reference here is it seems like everybody who goes on television for this white house, you know not to be a hypocrite because we hate talking points, we can smell them a mile away.

but there's absolutely no preparation or strategy or talking points on what it is they want to say -- it seems like everybody, richard haass, even on our national security and our foreign policy strategies, it seems like everybody is freelancing. >> it looks like freelancing. there's no real national security process. we saw the decision to get out of the iran agreement was done without a formal meeting we see this kind of individual freelancing. but there's a big issue here. the real question is whether the united states is prepared in some ways to walk out of a north korean summit with half a loaf. what we used to call in other situations, interim agreements if we're basically going to say, it's all or nothing, even the north koreans will never to come to a summit. they're going to say we're not going to be mouse-trapped like that, we're not going to be blamed for the failure of the summit, or if they signal it's all or nothing, the summit will happen and it will fail and then we're back to where we are, we

live with a north korea nuclear arsenal. so sometimes there's worse things than trying diplomacy. if you do it in such a way that people conclude it's failed. we can make this work, but only if we're prepared to structure it in ways that we don't demand everything up front. it's got to be more modest things and perhaps certain things can be worked over time. i understand the risks, the history of negotiations with north korea, we've got to be really careful how we structure things, what we get, what we give, how we sequence it. but the path the administration is on root now will end up with no summit or a summit that fails. >> north korea. >> i believe they want to keep a large element of their nuclear arsenal for the for siebel future. want economic relief. they probably also want some distancing from china. they want to get out from under. they like the idea of north/south relations. they love the fact they would be meeting with the american president, they want greater independence, a bit of economic relief and they want security. so that's the package we have to

think about and the question then is what can we do for example, what do we care most about? it might be their long-range ballistic missile capabilities, it might be to extend the testing freeze, so they can't get certain capabilities, it's not just what's desirable. it's what's realistic and how we're willing to stage it if we're prepared to do this and do it over time, in a way that has some realistic appreciation for what the other side can conceivably give up, we ask k succeed. if we do this as a kind of theatrical, you give us everything we want now up front, almost as a down payment, there's zero chance on god's green earth that this summit can work. >> a big part of the calculation for any successful agreement on denuclearization has been the role of moscow and beijing. and what do we know at this point about what the chinese are doing, behind the scenes to try to ease some of the sanctions, maybe ease up on oil exports or just make the conditions less,

less good for a deal here with the united states of america? what is the role at this point of the chinese? >> it's the exact right question. because it's china that has, the economic leverage to the extent that anybody has. given what 80, 90% of north korea trade transits china. they want to keep influence, they want to be seen to be a player. they want north korea to survive. they want the korean peninsula to remain divided. they don't want a war and they don't want to have an unlimited nuclear problem. the last thing china wants is one day japan to go nuclear or south korea. they want traditional diplomacy here. they would like this to basically come up with a limited agreement that would stabilize the situation over time. could you get more ambitious phases. what the chinese are looking for is something quite classic or tradition traditional. not to solve the problem, but to stabilize it or manage it. that is their definition of victory. think it should be ours as well if we go back to a situation where it's all or nothing.

my guess is that the chinese will protect north korea and it becomes another major issue in the negotiation. >> we could learn how interested the president is in saving chinese jobs. when the u.s. launches round two of trade talks with china today. steve rattner joins the table, when we come back. keep it here on "morning joe." liberty mutual 'd you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. at bp, everyone on an offshore rig depends on one another. that's why entire teams train together in simulators,

to know exactly what to do before they have to do it. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. your digestive system has billions of bacteria, but life can throw them off balance. try align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. with a unique strain that re-aligns your system. re-align yourself, with align. when you combine ancestry's with its historical records... you could learn you're from ireland

donegal, ireland and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com my mom washes the dishes... ...before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? new cascade platinum lets your dishwasher be the dish washer. three cleaning agents dissolve, lift and rinse away food the first time. new cascade platinum. so, howell...going? we had a vacation early in our marriage that kinda put us in a hole. go someplace exotic? yeah, bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. what? what happened? i got a little over-confident on a moped. even with insurance, we had to dip into our 401(k) so it set us back a little bit. sometimes you don't have a choice. but it doesn't mean you can't get back on track. great. yeah, great. i'd like to go back to bermuda. i hear it's nice. yeah, i'd like to see it. no judgment. just guidance. td ameritrade.

. there is new reporting on the leak of michael cohen's financial records, and it comes one week after michael avenatti released records of millions of dollars which allegedly flowed into the shell company that cohen used to pay avenatti's client, stormy daniels, the porn star. the inspector general of the treasury department launched an investigation into the leak which brings us to the latest reporting from ronan pharaoh. he reports in the "new yorker" that the source of cohen's leaked records is a law enforcement official. the official had grown alarmed after being unable to find two important records, reports on

cohen's financial activity in a government database. the official worried that the information was being withheld from law enforcement, released the remaining documents. the missing documents are said to be two suspicious activity reports, filed by first republic bank to the treasury department. according to farrow's source, the the missing reports detail more than $3 million in previously undisclosed transactions flowing into the shell company, which had been used to facilitate the stormy daniels' payment. the source tells farrow that he fears that the contents of the two reports may be permanently withheld. complicated, so frank first break down exactly what i just reported here. exactly what happened. because it's hard to follow, and i'm thinking i'm hearing about money to other women? >> so we've definitely heard about that particularly from avenatti. with regard to fin-sin, the

financial crimes network. there's an official that is now said, anonymously, i can't find three suspicious activity reports that relate to michael cohen. i'm very worried that they seemingly have disappeared and i'm going to the press with this. that's the reporting we're seeing. but we need to understand there are legitimate reasons why very sensitive articles could be masked and restricted and there's a possibility that bob mueller has taken those out of the system. so that every one of thousands of analysts around the united states and various agencies can't play with them. >> and michael avenatti has said on our show that there's this possible $1.5 million, $1.7 million payment possibly to another woman, that possibly was trump-connected, he's alluded to it a few times. it definitely has my radar up. if there's one, there's no doubt, with these types of situations, that there are more. >> so ronan points out in his reporting that he couldn't find anything nefarious about these

missing reports. but he did report that they're suspicious, according to everybody he talked to who has ever looked at one of these. does it look to you like some, that might have been grabbed by bob mueller, perhaps by the fbi as part of an investigation? >> yeah, it's not entirely unusual. the most sensitive of cases to restrict access and block certain sars. routinely in the fbi if you've got a case on a county commissioner you're blocking access from the rest of the fbi. so i'm not overly concerned about this. sars don't just disappear, the bank still has them. mueller still has them. >> do you think it's odd that the whistle blower gave it to michael avenatti, and not his superior. >> it implies he doesn't trust the treasury administration and that's a problem. still ahead, two months after being fired by the president, former secretary of state rex tillerson appears to take a jab at donald trump. what tillerson told graduates at

the virginia military institute yesterday. "morning joe" will be right back. having mplaque psoriasise is not always easy. it's a long-distance run. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over 10 years. humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance in just four months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections,

including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal, infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms, or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask about the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. humira & go. overwhelming air fresheners can send you running... so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one.

do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? yes? great! then you're ready for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. sweet! e*trade. the original place to invest online.

as i reflect upon the state of our american democracy, i observe a growing crisis in ethics and integrity. if our leaders seek to conceal the truth or we as people become accepting of alternative realities that are no longer grounded in facts, then we as american citizens are on a pathway to relinquishing our freedom. >> i would say that was a dig. just a slight -- yeah. former secretary of state rex tillerson, he got his voice back during his commencement address at the virginia military institute yesterday, appearing to make a thinly veiled. i don't think that was thinly veiled, i think that was right out there. he's rebuking his former boss, president trump. >> so richard, i don't want to tell tales out of school. is making a bit of a face. i think it's a little rich. rex tillerson now that he's out

of office to come in on trump when he had a chance to do it when he was there. and somebody who got into the state department as well. >> wait, who did, rex or the president? >> well secretary of state, his principle legacy is the dismantling of the foreign service and the state department. so his stand, what he said was absolutely right. and more people who stand up and point that out, the better. it's just the platform he commands is not what it could and should have been had he done these things and more of them when he was secretary of state. >> but anybody who finds the ability to tell the truth at any point at this time i'm going to support. >> there you go. >> because there's just a lot of people not telling the truth and not able to step up. and do what's right for the country. the trump administration is hosting the chinese trade delegation today and tomorrow in washington. yesterday in a tweet storm, president trump defended his recent assertion that he wanted the u.s. government to help chinese company zte, writing in

part quote nothing has happened with zte, except as it pertains to the larger trade deal. we have not seen china's demands yet. which should be few in that previous u.s. administrations have done so poorly. in negotiating. china has seen our demands, there has been no folding as the media would love people to believe. the meetings haven't even started yet. the u.s. has very little to give, because it has given so much over the years. china has much to give. joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner for more. >> this goes back to the infamous, too many jobs in china lost tweet, from the president, of a couple of days ago. why this company? why is he so focused on zte? >> because zte is one of the critical telecom providers in china and we have sanctioned them twice for violating the north korea, they paid over $1 billion in fines. they need our components in order to make their components. we have, the world has changed.

we have very integrated supply lines now. so effectively if we say you can't do business with zte. it almost puts zte out of business. zte is one of the companies they're trying to buildup. >> so qualcomm received some benefit here because of this potential but the intelligence community in this country is upset with the company itself. >> there are several things going on here. number one, china is the most protecti protectionist, the most abuser of free trade rules than any major company in the world and the fact is that something should be and needs to be done about it. maybe the horse is already out of the barn. you wouldn't do it unilaterally, you should be doing it multilaterally through organizations and with our allies but china's trade practices are terrible. that's an economic matter but there's also a national security matter which is it is widely believed that they use their company, many of which are

state-owned and state-influenced in order to advance their intelligence gathering, national securi security, et cetera. but american telecom providers won't buy their network equipment to put in their system because they're too afraid of what's going on. the pentagon won't zedell -- se zte phones in their stores because they're afraid what's in there. so if you want to say something nice about this administration, they're trying to do something. they're doing in the a convoluted up-and-down ham handed way. >> well, tpp. >> it would have been a help but they've identified a problem. >> so jeremy, for the reasons that was just laid out, we heard the national security community is up in arms about the president of the united states propping up of all companies zte because they are believed to be an instrument of the chinese government. >> that's right.

we are drawing lines in the wrong places to address a significant problem so obviously letting zte off the hook after they have been found in an enforcement action to be violative of sanctions, that's a huge problem and sends the wrong signal and one of the reasons the north koreans said we saw you're giving concessions to the chinese on zte, we want these concessions. i agree there's a larger issue. we have to figure out how to render safe the ability of american companies to access chinese markets and more importantly chinese capital which the chinese want to export, bring to our technology companies. there's a lot of money for american businesses to access, we have to figure out the best way to do it consistent with national security. >> steve makes the right point. there's a legitimate critique the administration has launched against how china has game it had world trading system and used it to their advantage for over a decade. the problem is the remedies, quote/unquote, that the administration put forward are

non-starters. the demand that we simply correct the trade imbalance by $100 billion or $200 billion and demand that of the chinese. no way that's going to happen but the critique is broadly supported i think across the political spectrum. >> increasingly. >> and the administration itself is divided. all sorts of funny stories about the delegation that went to beijing, had no ability to negotiate or agree with itself, returns empty handed. now the chinese have sent their leading official. but almost like north korea, almost like iran, is question is, is the administration willing to move from an absolutist position to one that has a little bit of give-and-take? if they are there's a potential way of defusing this. if not, it gets worse. >> richard haass, jeremy bash, thank you for being on this morning. coming up, we're following several new developments in a russia probe. a clash between two congressional committees investigating the matter and a revealing new report detailing how the fbi's handling of the investigation during the election actually worked in

donald trump's favor. the lead writer of that piece, matt apuzo, joins us. plus, president trump lands in ethical hot water over the hush money payment his lawyer made to porn star stormy daniels. the letter from the government ethics chief that's essentially being called a criminal referral to the justice department. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ tired of wrestling with seemingly impossible cleaning tasks? sprays in the bathroom can be ineffective.

try mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. simply add water, to remove soap scum. try mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. and my brother ray and i started searching for answers. (vo) when it's time to navigate in-home care, follow that bright star. because brightstar care earns the same accreditation as the best hospitals. and brightstar care means an rn will customize a plan that evolves with mom's changing needs. (woman) because dad made us promise we'd keep mom at home. (vo) call 844-4-brightstar for your free home care planning guide.

welcome to holiday inn! thank you! ♪ ♪ wait, i have something for you! every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. save up to 15% when you book early at hollidayinn.com save up to 15% no one thought much of itm early at all.l people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. you're more than just a bathroom disease.. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms.

crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. we're fed up with your unpredictability. remission can start with stelara®. talk to your doctor today. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for stelara®.

>> there's a big nationwide debate over whether this audio clip someone posted on shrine s -- online is saying yanni or laurel. listen to this. >> laurel, laurel. >> it seems like everyone is talking about it. take a look. >> good morning, everybody, welcome to "today" on a wednesday morning and it's yanni. >> how do you hear laurel? >> you hear yanni? >> i hear yanni. >> she hears yanni. i hear laurel. my producer in my ear hears laurel. >> it's definitely yanni. >> some says yanni, some say laurel, others say they just have to talk about something other than trump. welcome back to "morning joe." we have with us mike barnicle, former assistant director of the fbi's counterintelligence division frank figluzzi, heidi

przybyla and editor-in-chief of the "atlantic" magazine, jeffrey goldberg. this month's cover story looks at the birth of a new aristocracy. also with us, matt apuzo. we'll get into his reporting in just a moment. joe is off today. i got my wish. >> which is? >> i did. yesterday i just wanted rudy to speak out one more time and just step in it one more time and he did it. here's president trump's lawyer. by the way, i wonder what michael cohen is thinking watching rudy giuliani because i would think if you were on the verge of flipping, if you had any, any thought there was still loyalty and you might not flip, i'd watch rudy and i'd be doing back flips right and left. take a look here. here's rudy giuliani seeming to indicate that the trump campaign

did get dirt on hillary clinton from the russians. >> remember june of 2016. that's about when i joined the campaign. nobody's going to focus on a russian woman who says that she has information about hillary, turns out she wants to negotiate sanctions and they throw her out basically and when she wants to meet again they don't meet with her. i wouldn't remember that. i had people coming up to me saying all kinds of things about hillary and i'm willing to believe almost anything about her and i get rid of them. when i ran against them, they were looking for dirt on me everyday. i mean, that's what you do. maybe you shouldn't but you do it. nothing illegal about that. and even if it comes from a russian or german or an american, it doesn't matter. and they never used it is the main thing. never used it. they rejected it. if there was collusion with the russians they would have used it. >> so this run away beer truck actually just told -- >> i never heard that one. >> -- and our thanks to sean

hannity, thank you so much for your great reporting because rudy giuliani actually revealed they did get something -- oh, it was laura ingraham, my thanks to laura ingraham. great job. he revealed they got something which i thought -- you know, they were saying all along they did not so this is incredible reporting on the part of fox news and laura ingraham and rudy again has let everyone know there's more to discover. that bob mueller is going to be looking into this very closely. i think it's fascinating. >> it's important to pick apart what he said. let's ask frank figluzzi. again, the argument seems to be from rudy giuliani is that the meeting was set up with this russian attorney but nothing came of it therefore there can be no crime there. what do you make of that argument? >> for collusion to exist, for conspiracies to exist, for crimes to exist it doesn't mean you have to be successful.

so they sat down with russian representatives who asserted they had dirt on a fellow american, their opponent, and they didn't report it. in fact, the opposite, don jr. says if it's what you say it is i love it. so the leader, their candidate, is not setting a tone of integrity, doing the right thing but rather a tone of let's get dirt if we can get it and let me know. and then don jr., it strains creduli credulity, said he didn't speak to his father about it, somehow the president crafts a letter about adoption and it's in a vacuum? >> and then there's the question of blocked phone calls. meanwhile, the senate judiciary committee opened up books on interviews of the president's top campaign officials about the june, 2016, trump tower meeting between donald trump jr., paul manafort, jared kushner and the russians who are peddling dirt on hillary clinton.

the documents shed light on who knew what and when about the controversial summit that stayed secret for more than a year. testimony from russian participants cast more doubt on donald trump jr.'s original claim that the meeting was to discuss russian adoptions. witnesses said he began the meeting by asking for information on hillary clinton. the judiciary committee's exhibits and testimony transcripts drew attention to a call donald trump jr. had with an unknown person in the same hour he was arranging the campaign's meeting with the russians. three days before the june, 2016, meeting, trump jr. spoke with the son of a russian oligarch about the meeting. about 20 minutes after that call, trump jr. had a call with a blocked telephone number. almost as soon as that call ended, trump jr. called back agalarov then e-mailed rob goldstone to thank him. trump jr. says he doesn't know

who the blocked call was with. that will be an area of great interest, i assume, for bob mueller and with subpoena power can find out whose number that is between the two calls with a agalarov. >> let's think about two things the. phone company has to bill you for what's going on. secondly they have to route the number being dialed to you so they know what the number is. if they know it, mueller can learn that number through a subpoe subpoena. >> do you think they understand, jeffrey, that mueller can get -- maybe they don't. where do you think things stand watching rudy trying to vouch for the president, "newsroom tokyo" -- michael cohen in the cross fires of the mueller probe and and maybe i'm overstating it but it seems like rudy giuliani

is just kind of like not stable as he presents himself the american public vouching for the president. >> i prefer runaway beer truck. >> you like that one? >> that's a joe scarborough expression. >> it just seems like any time he goes on air he makes things worse for the president but makes things better for anybody investigating the president. >> there's a qualitative difference in what he saeaid whh is that he's introducing a new theme into the talking points which is that it's okay to take information about your domestic political opponent from the russians. so in other words almost acknowledging that okay, if it happened it's fine. which is, of course -- it's a real evolution downward. it's a real -- i think this is a break point because i think

we'll trump's defenders saying fine, you're running against somebody and the russians and the kgb come to you and give you information, that's fine. which is totally -- a total danger to american democracy. i don't understand what's going on. >> we're going move to matt apuzo and his reporting in just a second and i'll toss that to you, willie. the thing i know about donald trump is that he thinks that if he says something, no matter how untrue it is, he can get a wave of headlines and make it his truth. that's how he worked on the new york media, that's how he worked when he called imitating himself to reporters. he had a lot of fun with that. that was the game he played as a real estate mogul who declared bankruptcy and you're not sure where his money is. that was the trump game. what i don't get is the rudy giuliani giulianis of the world and the others around him who play it as well, who think this is going to end well. >> they live down to his

expectations. >> but we're talking about the united states government. we're talking about the presidency. we're talking about a special counsel investigating this presidency. you guys, rudy, this doesn't end well, the lies actually come out so i'm confused. i understand donald trump. i know that's how he lives, willie. that's how he thrives is to play the median, even if it's bad but for the people around him to shill at this level when things are so clearly going badly. >> you're talking about people who know better defending donald trump. rudy giuliani was a federal prosecutor. >> he knows better. >> he was the u.s. attorney. >> unless he's not okay. >> he knows that conventional campaign opposition research is different than getting assistance from a foreign government. >> this is corruption. >> these guys know they have a choice. they can either defend donald trump the way donald trump wants to be defended by people telling a series of lies, being two steps behind the facts and changing their stories all the

time when new facts come out or they can get fired. >> well, that's okay. it's rot on the the core. >> i think rudy giuliani is at a stage of his life where he loves giving these interviews, he loves being back in it and this is the price he's paying of having a terrible client. >> it's going to be a big one. but that's just my opinion. >> let's turn to matt apuzo and his colleague's lengthy report in the "new york times." we've got 100 days before the 2016 election. code name cross fire hurricane after a rolling stones lyric in jumping josh flash, the report is based on interviews with a dozen current and former officials and review of documents. it claims about five justice department officials knew the full scope of the case at the time, not the dozen or more who might normally be briefed on a major national security case. fearful of leaks, fbi agents kept details from political appointees across the street at the justice department. peter struck, a senior fbi

agent, explained in a text that justice department officials would find it too "tasty" to resist sharing. "i'm not worried about our side" he wrote. kept secret that agents were on the trail of george papadopoulos and went to london to interview the australian ambassador about his claims, that michael flynn's foreign payments were under scrutiny. as were campaign chairman's paul manaforts. that agents suspected carter page told moscow about the fbi's 2013 warning to him about espionage targeting. to quote the times, the facts, had they surfaced, might have devastated the trump campaign. mr. trump's future national security adviser was under investigation as was his campaign chairman. one adviser appeared to have russian intelligence contacts, another was suspected of being a russian agent himself. >> so matt apuzo, thank you to you and your colleagues for this reporting. secondly, the investigation itself, according to your

reporting, was so self-contained, so closely held that the trip to london, two agents going to london to interview the australian ambassador was kept from pact theal -- practically the entire justice department. this flies in the face of donald trump's allegations that the fbi has always been out to get him. can you spell out the timeline between midsummer, 2016 when this investigation began on the heels of hillary clinton's investigation ending and where we are today? >> sure, so the investigation began july 31, 2016. 100 days before the election and just days after the fbi had closed down the clinton case. and if agents were eager to be investigating another presidential candidate and his campaign we didn't see evidence of it. our reporting shows that this was a real anxious moment at the

fbi. the code anymore cross fire hurricane kind of speaks to the storm they were going into and there are several key moments where if the fbi wanted to damage donald trump's campaign, as he said, they had every opportunity to and didn't and at every turn they went with the utmost secrecy. as you mentioned, they did not trust people at the justice department. that relationship was not going well after the hillary clinton case and they kept this super closely held. they thought for sure the political appointees across the street were going to leak it. they did everything they could to tamp this down and because of that it didn't get out before the election and those are the rules, that's how the fbi is supposed to do counterintelligence investigation, that's not a knock on them but with the upcoming inspector general report of the justice department, it's going to criticize the handling of the

hillary clinton case and people will wonder why did you talk so much about hillary clinton and you had nothing to say about donald trump. >> hearing aid di, jump in. that goes to my question that we've known that comey handled the two investigations very differently. but you have new details on the extent to which the fbi went to prevent leaks about the russia investigation, saying they potentially put off interviews with key associates. so that's my question to you is why? is it the conventional thinking that the fbi at its heart was making a political calculation that clinton would win? or is there a suggestion of something more nefarious? accusations, for instance, about some in clinton's inner circle that there was pressure from friends in the manhattan fbi offices to bring this information and make it more public with regards to the clinton e-mail investigation? >> we didn't see evidence of

pressure from the field office in new york on this case. in fact, one of the criticisms of the fbi handling was that this was so compartmentalized at headquarters, instead of being farmed out to field offices and if there's ever a problem with the investigation you've brought the problem right into the heart of the fbi. i think you hit the nail on the he head. for an agency that doesn't like to make political calculations, in the end they made one very big and very wrong political calculation. they believed hillary clinton was going to win and donald trump was going to lose and that they would be judged based on how they handled the hillary clinton case and would be criticized if they handled her with kid gloves and on the flip side they figured if donald trump is going to lose and we have gone guns blazing and gets out we're investigating his campaign, it only feeds into his campaign rhetoric that this is a rigged system. so with 100 days left to go in the election, they were very cautious. they delayed interviewing key

witnesses. they tried to do everything cloak and dagger and there's a realization inside the bureau and the justice department that the -- there's a criticism they could have done more. >> frank, there's no way of measuring the damage done to the reputation by the fbi by the president's volume of attacks on it as an institution but could you speak to the irony of the level of professionalism that protect donald trump's candidacy in the summer of 2016. summer and fall of 2016 as a result of the fbi's actions to contain this investigation. >> there's an obvious irony which is that the very same fbi officials bashed everyday by the white house for targeting trump, going after the presidency we learn in this article are being the fbi professionals that most of them always are which is they're going to painstaking lengths to number the people of doj who know about this.

to code name the case, to pull back from wanting the interview russians and confront russians and have them abort their mission, start doing overt interviews. they're doing everything in a kournt intelligence investigation which is what this was. >> we have these fascinating details coming out in a bigger picture, jeffrey. we have this embassy opening in jerusalem, we've got north korean talks going down -- >> you mean there are other things going on? it's amazing. >> but it feels like the cracks in this are getting deeper, getting closer to something. >> very much so which is i think why he is making this argument rudy was making and it all seems -- if you were writing a bad screenplay -- because this isn't a good one, it's a bad one, you would have this happening against the backdrop of a potential cataclysmic or possibly fantastic summit between north korea and the

united states. it doesn't seem to be going well. john bolton has helped make sure it doesn't go well. but everything seems to be coming to a head and when you have the president on the international stage trying to negotiate the denuclearization of the korean peninsula and having basically this investigation getting closer and closer to his associates, it's a recipe for bad screen writing and real life serious problems. >> this has potential massive long-term impact on the -- our place in the world for decades to come. >> the president of the e.u. just said with friends like this who needs enemies. the president of the european union talking about this, europe's historic ally. >> steve rattner. jump in. as the details come out, you don't see like sort of a strategy to do something feoff fairs you. it's almost like they're a bunch

of idiots trying to cover their tracks on whatever they might need to cover and they don't even know what to cover. even like the desperate attempt to talk about the meeting being about russian adoptions. where would you pull that out of and why? >> it's probably the worst example of damage control or dealing with a crisis like this that i can ever remember seeing where there are always three steps behind and something happens, they come up with a story to deal with it then something else happens which contradict this is what they just said so they come up with another story to try to deal with that and it's like giuliani and his tv appearances recently. the appearances keep changing because they start realizing they have different kinds of things. but i wanted to go back to matt. this question of how comey handled this investigations differently. you make the point that the trump investigation was behind. the clinton administration, there was an argument for

treating them differently but i think certainly comey's critics still believe that him sailing out in july and doing that press conference was unnecessary, ill advised, not in conformance with normal justice department procedures then it led to the unraveling when you got into anthony weiner's laptop. so was that press conference a mistake? >> i haven't found people inside the justice department or the fbi who if they had a do over would do it the same way and comey himself who has been offer his -- extremely defensive of the decisions the fbi made, he wrote in his book that if he had it to do over he would hold the press conference but he wouldn't editorialize and call clinton's behavior extremely careless so i think the july press conference is coming ins for serious criticism with the inspector

general's report. we'll revisit that decision to reopen the investigation and the fbi and james comey in particular have done a very good job messaging their explanation explanations. everyone would agree this is a difficult and unprecedented moment but when you hold these cases up side by side it's fair to bring the fbi into criticism. >> matt apuzo, thank you for your reporting. a lot going on. still ahead on "morning joe," the attorney for stormy daniels, michael avenatti, is here on set plus from the senate judiciary committee, rudy giuliani. and governor jay inslee on the democrats' wide open field for president in 2020. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely.

my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. we're on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, it's time to wake up to keurig. wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that's it. so rich. i love it. that's why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you're describing the coffee and not me?

full-bodied. your digestive system has billions of bacteria, but life can throw them off balance. try align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. with a unique strain that re-aligns your system. re-align yourself, with align. the dual adjustability of the sleep number bed allows each of you to adjust to your ideal level of firmness, comfort and support... your sleep number setting... for your best... sleep... ever. and snoring?

does your bed do that? right now during sleep number's semi-annual sale its' the lowest price ever on the queen c4 mattress, only $1099 - save $500. and save up to $500 on sleep number 360 smart beds. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ sure. mom,what's up son?alk? i can't be your it guy anymore. what? you guys have xfinity. you can do this. what's a good wifi password, mom? you still have to visit us. i will. no. make that the password: "you_stillóhave_toóvisit_us." that's a good one. [ chuckles ] download the xfinity my account app and set a password you can easily remember. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. it's. there are new ethics questions for president trump this morning after disclosing on financial

forms that he did reimburse michael cohen for the stormy daniels payment. i thought he didn't. didn't he say he didn't know about it? interesting. the disclosure came in the very last footnote on page 45 of the 92-page report. it claims, quote, in the interest of transparency, while not required to be disclosed as reportability liabilities, in 2016, expenses were incurred by one of trump's attorneys, michael cohen. it claims cohen sought reimbursement and trump, quote, fully reimbursed cohen in 2017. however, the government ethics chief disputes cohen's payment was an expense and therefore not required to be reported. joining us now, a member of the judiciary committee, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut and here on set, senior reporter at "vanity fair" and nbc news and msnbc contributor emily jane fox who has new reporting on michael cohen this morning. first, senator blumenthal, i

would like to ask you about this new revelation about the payment to stormy daniels. why does this matter? >> it matters, first of all, because the president has a legal obligation under the ethics laws to report those kinds of debts. his failure to do so could be criminal. it's been referred to the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein by that ethics chief of the government for possible investigation and even prosecution so it's one more data point in an investigation that is ongoing and it adds to the plethora of detail we're seeing about michael cohen as a resultover the raid, the entanglement with the president, the payment by that russian oligarch, victor vekselberg for a shell corporation to cohen.

the involvement of the russians, this kind of pattern. >> so we want to get to emily jane fox on the mind set of michael cohen at this point but first frank figliuzzi, talk about if you could the plethora of problems that this latest revelation poses for president? >> some of the scenarios are not looking good for the president. he has to file this disclosure. he's between a rock and a hard place. it will contravene what he said about not knowing about the payment but what it will come down to criminally is what he knew, when he knew it. what did he know about the payment structure of paying off stormy daniels and perhaps others. did he know about other illegalities, fictitious corporations, in home equity loans, russians providing money to give to stormy. so if he knew that, he's looking at being a co-conspirator with michael cohen in those underlying charges and if he learned of illegality after the fact, if he then pays off knowing something is wrong he's

looking at accessory after the fact. this is almost a no-win situation for the president. >> it's willie geist. i want to ask you about a point that rudy giuliani and others around the president have made which is that bob mueller cannot indict the president of the united states or, in fact, that the president of the united states cannot be indicted. this is a conversation we had around nixon, we had them around clinton and here they are with president trump. what is your understanding of that? to my knowledge it's never been tested in court. can a president of the united states be indicted? >> the most important, willie, is the one that you just made, it has never been tested. there's no precedent. there is a department of justice guideline apparently that says the president cannot be indicted. there's legal support for that view. but my own view is that he can be indicted. he's not above the law. perhaps the trial must be delayed because the president is involved in foreign affairs and he has to going meet with the north korean leader and all kinds of pressing duties of state but eventually the trial

should take place. there's no reason the president should be above indictment any more than any other government official who also may have pressing duties so delay of the trial but still the possibility of indictment. impeachment is not the exclusive remedy. >> emily, you have new reporting on michael cohen that suggests the embattled lawyer is becoming overwhelmed. reading from your piece, as michael cohen's instinct to fight kicked into overdrive last week so, too, has the unyielding cable news mania weighed on him. the paparazzi who had finally begun to leave him and his family alone after the raid once again started lingering outside his hotel on park avenue. they followed him on his way to his lawyer's office and waited once he came outside. friends continued to tell him that at this point no one in washington was looking out for him so he had to be the one to look out for himself and his family. as he watched the news unfold in his hotel room in philadelphia over the weekend, he evidenced

some exasperation. he has confided in friends, i just can't take this anymore. frank pointed out earlier, emily, that if he flips enough he could avoid jail time but he'd have to turn on the president. i don't know why anybody wouldn't, especially if indicted, especially if your family is on the line. >> this is someone who spent the weekend at his daughter's college graduation. his parents are in town. he has two young children watching this unfold. i saw them in some of the paparazzi photos that were posted online yesterday and this is obviously something that is weighing on him and something that something he has contended to me in interviews on the record all the time and people have said to me, you know, he feels like he's done nothing wrong but he's caught in this situation. >> i can't imagine that -- okay. and so i don't know him, you do.

i'll tell you this. how has he got a feel watching rudy giuliani? >> when rudy gave the interview it was a complete shock to michael cohen and i think his reaction at that time was why is he doing this? my life is hard enough right now, this is making it ten times harder. and as bad as things look for michael cohen right now and as exasperated and frustrated as he is, there must be a lot of fear and frustration at 1600 pennsylvania avenue in coverage as well. and not just in 1600 pennsylvania avenue, in kalorama where jared and ivanka live, because not only did michael cohen work for a decade right next to president trump but he worked alongside his three adult children. >> and for michael cohen or anybody else watching rudy giuliani, it's like watching a r runaway beer truck on fire. they're not doing anything to protect anybody but maybe trump in the end.

so i can't imagine that he would be holding on to hope about his loyalty. >> do you have a question for the senator. >> senator blumenthal, jeff goldberg from the "atlantic" here. i want to follow up on something you said before that you think it's possible to indict the president but postpone a trial because he has to carry out matters of state. could you dive into that? it doesn't seem plausible that you can have a president negotiating with american adversaries doing very, very complicated things in the middle east while he's actually sitting there under indictment. how can that possibly be tenable for american governors. >> in the same way that the president is negotiating in the middle east and north korea and elsewhere being under investigation. of course, his argument for shutting down the investigation is that it's a burden on him. but if the indictment were simply returned by the grand jury without any ongoing action in court it would be there but the president would still have the opportunity to conduct these

investigations. remember there are statutes of limitations for crimes and the president should not receive a past just because he is in that office allowing the statute of limitations to expire just because he is president and if you go back to the basic principle that no one is above the law, the two demands, the president these do his duties, on the other hand, the rule of law can be reconciled in this way. >> senator, mitch mcconnell has said he will not bring to the floor bipartisan legislation to protect robert mueller with the increasing rhetoric coming not just from trump but also individuals like vice president pence, even john kelly. can you update us on your efforts to try and get some kind of bipartisan movement to protect mueller or maybe protect his work? >> the very timely and important

question. mitch mcconnell continues to say i think it's wishful thinking the president would never fire robert mueller or rod rosenstein. and both need protection. the legislation i've helped to draft is on the senate floor. there is growing alarm and extreme apprehension among many of my colleagues. we have conversations literally everyday. we'll have a judiciary committee meeting later this morning where privately and behind the scene wes will talk about my republican colleagues possibly supporting this legislation and other legislation that i'm currently drafting that would provide for transparency. that is a report by the special counsel if there is any move to fire him or protection for rod rosenstein. remember, the scope and magnitude of this investigation are controlled by the deputy attorney general. he has as much to say as robert

mueller about what this investigation uncovers, where it goes, what the resources are and the timing so the deputy attorney general may be as much needed protection as the special counsel. >> steve rattner, jump in, then we have a trump tweet we need to unpack. >> so emily, there's been a lot of speculation about whether michael cohen would flip but it seems to me that every passing day there's more stuff going on that seems at the edge if not improper, if not sleazy, whatever. we haven't talked about tax evasion or avoidance, it's almost unimaginable that he filled out all his tax returns the way you're sboezed to so it seems very likely they're going to find enough on michael cohen to put him away. based on your reporting, what does he do then? does he flip or get put away? >> he hasn't been charged with anything. from my reporting what's happening now is he's trying to get through everyday. he's been spending ten hours a

day with his lawyers going through the material the government sees and has since turned back to his attorneys. he's focused on his family just getting through everyday but this is a guy who is a family man and who his friends close to him told me last week he doesn't feel like he's being protected and where he is is a dangerous place to be. >> does he genuinely believe -- there are more reports this morning -- it was a rough day for him in the press yesterday, that he solicited a million dollars from the qatari government. we know the store riies about a and novartis. does he genuinely believe he did nothing wrong in those cases? >> from all the times i've interviewed him he's contended he's done nothing wrong. i don't know what he genuinely believes, i can only tell you what he's told me on the record and he's contended every time he's done nothing wrong. >> so the president has tweeted. it's fascinating. >> it's an anniversary tweet.

>> oh, wow, that's nice. >> it reads this way. congratulations america. we are now into the second year of the greatest witch-hunt in american history and there's still no collusion and no obstruction. the only collusion was that done by democrats who are unable to win an election despite the spending of far more money. >> fascinating. so interesting. >> can i say one word in favor of the salem witch trials. >> well, speaking of witches -- >> they're number one as far as i'm concerned. >> so we have witches here and i guess some would say congratulations to you, mr. president, for -- and the rudy for his wild interviews but for your tweets and your interviews and all the things that you have put on the table that has helped make this witch-hunt so prolific and to bring to the table so many witches and possibly so many more. >> so many witches and beer trucks. >> well, that's the beer truck. it's my turn for rudy, but i'm looking here at the witches that

have already been gathered up. paul manafort, the national security adviser michael flynn who jared kushner told us time and time again was your personal guy, was the guy who kept you calm during the campaign, flew with you, sat next to you, was bide your side all the time who we saw in the white house trailing you everywhere you went. even when we had lunch at the white house there was flynn at the door just staring and holding little papers. so this has been very helpful and the congratulations i think should be returned? >> what's interesting about this is that these investigations -- he's going to issue a tweet a year from now, congratulations on entering the third year of the quote/unquote witch-hunt because this is rolling and this is going go through his entire term. it seems impossible to believe that the pace can continue but every week brings us -- this qatari issue is the newest iteration. >> what's your reaction to the tweet? also to the different things

that rudy giuliani has brought to the table on television through the fine work of fox news especially. >> you know, mika, the saying a picture is worth a thousand words. that picture of four convicted trump associates, we're not talking dieted, charged and convicted. facing serious prison time. and then 22 indictments overall, including the president's former campaign manager and one of those indictments of 13 individual russians and three russian entities details an assault on our dem zip that is stunning, absolutely stunning and should be chilling to any american about the continuing russian attack on our democracy. so the great mystery for americans should be why donald trump continues to refuse to

acknowledge russian interference in the face of youian anymorety in the intelligence community as well as law enforcement officials and convictions and my reaction to that tweet is it's from an alternative reality that is unfortunately a real disservice to american justice and the rule of law and to american national security at risk because of that russian continuing attack. >> we'll leave it right there. senator richard blumenthal, thank you so much. emily jane fox, thank you as well. great to have you on board this morning. coming up, president trump hasn't gone after michael avenatti but rudy giuliani sure has. the attorney for stormy daniels joins us on set to respond at the top of the hour on "morning joe."

this is frank. sup! this is frank's favorite record. this is frank's dog. and this is frank's record shop. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff that's part of running a business. so frank can focus on the beat. you hear that? this is frank's record shop. and this is where life meets legal. bp is taking safety to new heights. using drones and robots offshore so engineers can stop potential problems before they start. because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces that trap odors and release them back into the room. so, try febreze fabric refresher.

febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics and cleans them away as it dries. use febreze every time you tidy up to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. fabric refresher even works for clothes you want to wear another day. make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. your plaques are always there at the worst times. constantly interrupting you with itching, burning and stinging. being this uncomfortable is unacceptable. i'm ready. tremfya® works differently for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. with tremfya®, you can get clearer and stay clearer. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks...

stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections, and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya®, tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. ask your doctor about tremfya®. tremfya®, because you deserve to stay clearer. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for tremfya®.

>> you've been at this for a year almost. >> 17 months. 17 years would be nice, too. coming up, one year into the special counsel investigation and the president and his team says it's time for mueller to bring it to an end but compared

to investigations of past administrations, the mueller probe is hardly dragging on. the "atlantic's" natasha bertrand joins us with her new reporting. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ this is a jungle gym... and a baseball diamond... ...a mythical castle ...and a grand banquet hall. this is not just a yard. it's where memories are made. the john deere x350 select series with the exclusive one-touch mulchcontrol system.

nothing runs like a deere™ save $300 on the x350 select series™ tractors with the purchase of a mulchcontrol™ kit.

but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient save $300 on the x350 select series™ originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. your digestive system has billions of bacteria, but life can throw them off balance. try align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. with a unique strain that re-aligns your system. re-align yourself, with align. i'm all-business when i, travel... even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges.

what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro.

>> i didn't win this race by democrats alone. we won this race by everyone, independents, republicans -- [ cheers and applause ] >> well, that was paulette jordan who won the democratic nomination in idaho's gubernatorial race on tuesday, setting her up for a november showdown which would make her the state's first female governor and the country's first native american governor. if victor use. and while jordan faces an uphill battle in a traditionally red state that has not elected a democratic governor since 1990, there may be signs the political

landscape out west could be changing. joining us now, the man leading the charge to elect democratic governors across the country, the chairman of the democratic governors' association and the governor of washington state, democrat jay inslee. great to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning. >> so we're going to get to a lotz of different things here but you served with joe in congress so tell us everything you need to know. what was he like? >> we always believed he had a very bright future and he's realizing right now standing up for american values and we appreciate what he's doing. he might be the most successful of my former colleagues. >> that is nice. and i wasn't even asking you to be nice, that's amazing. >> mika was looking for more person information. >> no, i think you 150're 100% right. >> governor of washington is good, too. >> the problem is we need your show to be a little later. we have the best economy, we have the most beautiful state but we don't get you. >> but that's why they have dvrs

now. >> i've heard about them. >> not that complicated? >> what's your unemployment rate? >> about 3.5% and we have the best economy in the united states and i think that's an interesting point, too, in the united states. i think that's a good point because we have proven that when you have good honest open progressive values, if you take care of clean air and clean water, focus on schools, if you have clean energy jobs, our clean energy jobs are growing twice as fast as the rest of the economy. we have net neutrality bills, we have the best paid family leave in the united states. you get the best economy in the country. it blows up this myth that fairness is enimical to economic growth. i think we are a model of the country. we are also the most humble state in the nation, too. >> as you just displayed. when you are not trying to run the state of washington you are trying to help democratic governors beat in 2018. >> yeah.

>> what's the climate like out there. we sit here and we think 2018 will be good for democrats running for congress. what about in governor's mansions? >> the action in this nation is in the governor's offices, this is the place where you can make progress. the reason is is that donald trump cannot stop us in the states. he cannot stop me from passing a net neutrality bill, and did not. he didn't stop me from adopting clean energy policies so we can fight climate change. he cannot stop us from having the largest infrastructure package in our state's hess tree. he cannot stop us from making progress in the states. gina romano built an offshore wind farm, first in the nation. another is stopping gerrymandering.

>> how big a role will donald trump play in these essentially local elections? in other words people when they are voting for a governor are not thinking about the russia investigation. does his lack of possible later have an nunes. >> it is like rocket fuel. people are going to be driven to the polls, they are going to be crawling out of the hospitals to go vote. we are making it easier to vote in my state, too, with greater voter rules. you cannot underestimate the passion that people feel understanding that basic american liberties are at risk. they feel it daeply, both democrats and republicans. our turnout on the democratic side improved 8 or 10% consistently by the election cycles. that's why we have picked up 30 or 40 seats nationwide since his election. that doesn't mean the discussion by your candidates is not going to be dominated by donald trump. it's going to be talking about

richard cordray in ohio about his success turning back money from consumers against a guy who wants to talk about health care. that's going to be most of the discussion because our candidates are having to have a healthy optimistic vision for all americans. that's frankly going to dominate. they don't have to talk about donald trump. ideas about him are baked in. we have had eight indictments and zero progress. you talk about infrastructure -- they can't build a bird house in the administration. we are building infrastructure in the state. >> obviously your governubernat candidates can talk about what is going on in their state. a lot of it is going to be pushing back on the trump -- the whole -- everything about trump, i guess. >> yeah. >> a lot of what my fellow

democrats are concerned about is the lack of a clear democratic message, what it is the democrats wants to do if and when they get back in power. i think there was unhappiness in the last cycle that we didn't have a great message. there is unhappiness now about the lack of a message. what is your message? >> we will have a central figure that will carry the torch of optimistic growth centered on clean in, in 2020. we have men and women on horseback individually in our states. this is not unusual. this is not a presidential year. this is a year where governor also define their vision for their states. that's all we should expect right now. i'm thrilled with the quality of the candidates we are getting. i met a great candidate in south carolina. we can compete in places like south carolina because of the quality of our candidates. this is a midterm election.

in a midterm election the party out of power essentially does not have one identified voice. this is sort of standard operating procedure in democr y democracy. what we are going to have is people who have had a belly full of this man who built his administration on deceit and deception. and they are going to have individuals in their states tom wolfe in pennsylvania who will stand for democracy. >> 2020 is on the horizon for democrats who want to unseat donald trump a lot of people for the reasons you laid out. the state of washington is mentioning your name. are you interested? >> i'm interested in winning in 2018. >> i know, but -- >> we can't wait until 2020 to reign in this train of abuses. we have to win in 2018. >> that's a good answer. >> i'm going around the country helping governors win right now. >> i think it's yes, by the way.

i'm just translating. >> i agree. >> we can't wait. >> governor jay inslee thank you so much. jeffrey goldberg thank you very much for spending the -- >> runaway beer truck. >> you are not a runaway beer truck. >> i'm not. >> who is the. >> that's for you to decide. >> jewel joule. >> some are saying. new insight into that 2016 trump tower meeting in which don jr. was expecting to get russian dirt on hillary clinton. jewel joule has something to say about that, thank god. plus the attorney for stormy daniels, michael avenatti joins us on set after the president's financial disclosure farm forms acknowledge michael cohen's payment to porn star stormy daniels. morning geois coming right back. it took a whole lot more. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy.

everything. and that 2% cash back adds up to thousands of dollars each year... so i can keep growing my business in big leaps! what's in your wallet? ...nausea, heartburn, when indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! here's pepto bismol! ah. nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. no one thought much of itm at all.l people said it just made a mess

until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. welcome to holiday inn! thank you! ♪ ♪ wait, i have something for you! every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. save up to 15% when you book early at hollidayinn.com save up to 15% jimmy's gotten used to his whole yup, he's gone noseblind. odors. he thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this... luckily for all your hard-to-wash fabrics... ...there's febreze fabric refresher. febreze doesn't just mask, it eliminates odors you've... ...gone noseblind to. and try febreze unstopables for fabric. with up to twice the fresh scent power, you'll want to try it... ...again and again and maybe just one more time.

indulge in irresistible freshness. febreze unstopables. breathe happy. another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your business. so this won't happen. because you've made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. atta, boy. & yes, some people assign genders to machines. & with edge-to-edge intelligence, you'll know your customers love this color, & don't love this one. never getting grape again. & you can adjust in near real time. & if someone tries to breach your firewall in london & you start to panic... don't. you've got allies on the outside, & security algorithms on the inside. & if it's jammed up here, & it's hot in here.

& you know both those things, you can do this. & your flowers won't wilt. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & when her patient's blood pressure drops, she can share the information with... the justice department just announced a special counsel to lead a new investigation into russian influence in the election -- >> oh, yeah. it's been a long and winding road to that sound byte, exactly one year ago today. the appointment of the special counsel. now that road is taking a straight line to the people surrounding the president, and this morning we have new details on a number the big players, including michael cohen, don jr., rudy giuliani, who gave me my wish, who is offering a new

defense against claims of presidential collusion -- he went on tv yesterday. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 17th. with us we have msnbc contributor mike bark barnacle president of the president on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haas former assistant director of the fbi's counter-intelligence division. jeremy bash is with us. and nbc news national political repo reporter -- president bella. joe is off this morning. willie is here. president trump's lawyer, jewel joule went on television again last night and seemed to indicate that the trump campaign diddet get dirt on hillary clinton from the russians. i don't think he meant to do that. did he? maybe he did. yesterday the senate judiciary committee opened up the books on their interviews of the

president's top campaign officials and russians peddeling dirt on hillary clinton. the documents shed light on who knew what and when about the controversial summit that stayed vet for more than a year. testimony from russian participants cast more doubt on donald trump jr.'s original claim that the meeting was to discuss russian adoptions. witnesses said he began the meeting by asking for information on hillary clinton. trump jr. was questioned about the e-mail he received before the meeting telling him of, quote, russia and its government's support for mr. trump. asked if he thought that would be problematic, the president's son replied, i didn't think that listening to someone with reflgs relevant to the fitness and character of a presidential candidate would be an issue, no. it was an argument seconded by rudy giuliani last night. but that's not all rudy said.

>> remember june of 2016? that's about when i joined the campaign. nobody is going to focus on a russian woman who says that she has false -- information about hillary. turns out she wants to negotiate sanctions, and basically throws her out and when she wants to meet again, they don't meet with her. i have people telling me they have all kind of things on hillary. when i was running they were looking for dirt on me every day. that's what you do. maybe you shun but you do. nothing illegal about that. even if it comes from a russian or a german or an american, doesn't matter. and they never used it is the main thing. never used it. they rejected it. if there was collusion with the russians they would have used it. >> what is it, willie? what is it? i thought they said they got nothing. so they got something. i'm confused. >> the it is the dirt they were

promised coming into the meeting. according to mr. giuliani they didn't think there was anything to the dirt so they put the dirt asid. >> rudy helps the mueller side again i poe suppose. >> there is a lot to pick apart. the equation between opposition reference on a presidential campaign, which we see in every presidential campaign and every campaign ever, and a foreign entity, the foreign government, russia, giving the information. are those two the same thing. >> those are different things. and what we have is complete naivety of what is legal and not legal. when senior campaign advisors agree to sit down with russians on the premise of receiving dirt on a fellow american candidate there is a problem. they don't alert the fbi. they don't seek counsel. rather, they become livid when the dirt doesn't materialize at the meeting and we have reports

of jared kushner just being indignant and leaving. >> does the fact of them allegedly not using the dirt, does that matter, or is the fact of being in the room together the problem? >> collusion, the loose definitions that we have doesn't require the fact that it's successful. >> right. >> it's that you are clueding with an adversarial government possibly in vie laying of the law. >> did rudy mess up the case again? >> yeah, i think he has done it virtually every time he has gone on the air. says something that potentially harms the president. >> there are other stories this morning. we will get back at that. we have got to go to what the definition of what "it" is. >> president trump's financial disclosures came in the last footnote of the 92-page report. it claims quote in the interest of transparency while not required to be disclosed as reportable lights in 2016

expenses were incurred by one of trump's attorneys, michael cohen. the report claims that cohen sought reimbursement of those expenses and that trump quote fully reimbursed cohen in 2017. however the government ethics court disputes it was a requirement to be reported n. a letter to deputy attorney general rod rosenstein the acting at the timics director writes that based on information from the president's disclosure, quote, the payment made by mr. cohen is required to be reported as a liability. that means the ethics chief believes it should have been reported on last year's form, which it was not. he end his comment by telling the deputy a.g. he is providing this year's form and last year's form because you may be interested. >> the president of the united states declares in this financial form that he repaid

michael cohen between $100,000 and $250,000. this morning, how many points of peril does this put the president in? >> i come up with three scenarios. two are awful. the first one lacks credulity: it's that he is simply paying his lawyer after the fact. we have gone beyond that because giuliani has publicly said that michael takes care of such things. let's go to scenario number two. he knew this was being done, he knew fictitious corporations might have been set up, knew that a bank loan must have been set up fictitiously and there might have been money laundering and or foreign governments involved. that makes him a coconspirator with cohen for the underlying violations. the third is that he found out hitter illegal things were done and he paid michael back. that makes him an accessory after the fact.

he's in trouble. >> just to be clear, i can't imagine anybody at this table is interested in the president's personal relationship with a porn star or anybody else. but at this point there is definitely a clear line that is drawn between the president -- and stop me if i'm wrong -- and michael cohen and money to a porn star who claims there was an affair. the president is yet to admit to the affair. but there is a line of money that guess to this woman right before the election and it appears to be to silence her from talking about the affair. am i correct? >> yes, and the question is how does the president know about this payment. the president doesn't use e-mail. he doesn't know what the fbi seized in michael cohen's offices. how did cohen document every conversation with the president? the fbi has that. >> the fbi has that. jeremy bash, national security issues would be that -- first of

all, are there other women? second of all, can this president be bribed or blackmailed? and the timing of these payments, right before -- this is -- this is clearly an issue that the american people -- unfortunately it matters to them. it's not a personal story of some cheap disgusting affair the president might have had. unfortunately, we have to talk about this because the president might be a danger if there are multiple situations like this and he can be pressured to perhaps give information away or be used by the russians because a woman can shake him down for $130,000 or more. >> that's right mika. the reason these financial disclosure forms in our government are so vital, so important, not just for transparency. we want to understand to whom the president of the made to is indebted. obviously that person has leverage, financial, but also potential political leverage

over a president, over our elected officials. if these forms are inaccurate -- sometimes there is a clerical error and that's generally forgiven. but if it's knowing concealment, willful efforts to conceal, hide places where the president is indebted, that is a federal crime. if we uphold the standard that the president is no more above the law than anybody else, anybody else in our society i agree with frank, the president has some explaining to do. >> the senate spell committee agrees with u.s. intelligence agencies that russian interfered in the elections and that moscow preferred donald trump in the race. durr said yesterday he saw no reason to dispute the conclusions made by the committee. this is in opposition to the house intelligence committee. last month the house intel

committee released a report releasing the president from investigation. president trump was quick to claim vindication when the house intel report came out labeling the russia probe a total witch hundred and calling for an end to the investigation. heidi president belle how are they accounting for the discrepancy between the reports. david nunes has been a defender publicly and privately of donald trump. senator richard burr, not as much. >> this is like to be to be the first of several embarrassing revelations fortune in yes, sir and the house intelligence committee. at the time they released their report there were groups that looked at the gaping holes in that investigation. up to 80% of the witnesses not even talked to or brought back for questioning. a lot of witnesses who came before that committee panel were

allowed to invoke privileges that it was unclear they even have to not answer questions. so their conclusion that they saw no evidence of collusion largely stemmed from the fact that critics say they didn't really look. they didn't really look too hard. as this investigation continues unabated on the senate side, we are seeing now the release for instance about the information about the trump tower meeting. there will be additional revelations as the senate intelligence committee continues a thorough investigation and releases more information. and the gingham here for instance that the whole premise of this trump tower moscow meeting as you talked about earlier was in fact to get dirt on hillary clinton is now confirmed by those documents. there will be more to come. >> we'll sort through it all with michael avenatti. he joins the table in just a few minutes. first, what rudy giuliani said about bob mueller's power to

indict the president. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. do not mistake serenity for weakness. do not misjudge quiet tranquility with the power of 335 turbo-charged horses the lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. the lincoln spring sales event is here. for a limited time get 0% apr on the lincoln mkx. plus get $1000 bonus cash. on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. does your bed do that? it's the lowest price ever on the queen c4 mattress, only $1099 - save $500. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. ...nausea, heartburn, when indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! here's pepto bismol! ah.

nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea.

♪ tired of wrestling with seemingly impossible cleaning tasks? using wipes in the kitchen, and sprays in the bathroom can be ineffective. try mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. simply add water, and use in your kitchen for burnt on food, in your bathroom to remove soap scum, and on walls to remove scuffs and marks. it erases 4x more permanent marker per swipe. for tough kitchen and bath messes, use mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. brand power. helping you buy better. with dell small businessout your technology advisors you get the one-on-one partnership you need to grow your business. the dell vostro 15 laptop. contact a dell advisor today.

spegs on behalf of donald trump's legal team, giuliani says that special counsel robert mueller's office told him they cannot bring criminal charges against the president. giuliani told nbc news the reason is due to justice department rules. quote, they know they don't have that power so they right a report. we are prepared to rebut it in great detail so we would like them to do it. giuliani said mueller was koi when discussing an indictment. quote, he didn't seem to want to give an answer. one of his assistants broke in and said of course we are bound by justice department policies. according to squul jewel, mueller looked at the assistant as if to say don't interrupt me.

mueller confirm theed they would not indictment a day or two later. giuliani said he wouldn't give much credence to a negative report from mutualer. >> there is no good reason for this investigation. there never was in place. i hope they are not going to impair their reputations with a bogus report. if you are going to write a fair report, fine, write it. if you are going to write an unfair report, fine, we are ready to rip it apart and ready to rip them apart. >> jeremy bash, rudy giuliani, is he helping the president's case at this point? and does he understand what this report is really about? >> no, i think and revealed mika something that we have been discussing but actually hasn't been confirmed by someone who talked directly to the special counsel which is that the special counsel is indeed writing a report. that was a question in some folks' mind.

some said if mueller found nothing on which to file criminal charges i would file a short memo for the justice department declining prosecution. in fact, if the special counsel writes a fulsome report about all the conduct at issue going back to russian interference this the election extending all the way through the obstruction of justice issues that is exactly what will be teed up for the justice department. >> what giuliani said last night is if this is negative, we are prepared to tear it down. in other words all the reporting we are doing, it's to delegitimatize what is reported and come out of bob mueller's office. he doesn't know what bob mueller is working on specifically. but we do know there have been indictments or plea deals coming

out of this investigation. whatever comes out, it seems to me, unless it completely exxon rates donald trump, the white house and their team, as he said on fox news last night will be torn to sleds by the white house. >> a couple of thing. the phrase tear it down is telling. it implies we don't have a substantive legal strategy. rather we are going to continue to tear down the institutions and the people who got us here. that's number one. number two, the words we are hearing from giuliani are not a wordser a substantive lawyer. they are a desperate pr spin that he is hoping people will latch on to. throwing out something that people can latch onto it. they can't indict. he is hoping they will latch onto that. coming up on "morning joe," the attorney for stormy daniels, michael avenatti, is standing by. he joins the conversation next on "morning joe." crohn's disease.

you're more than just a bathroom disease. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. we're fed up with your unpredictability. remission can start with stelara®.

talk to your doctor today. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for stelara®. dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life.

i had severe fatigue, went to a doctor. became diagnosed with hodgkin's lymphoma. i had to put my trust in somebody. we recommended chemotherapy, and then a stem cell transplant. when his disease progressed, i thought that he would be a good candidate for immune therapy to unleash his immune system against the cancer. i'm back to working hard. i've honestly have never felt this great. the evolution of cancer care is here. learn more at cancercenter.com appointments available now. i support the affordable care act, and voted against all trump's attempts to repeal it. but we need to do more. i believe in universal health care. in a public health option to compete with private insurance companies. and expanding medicare to everyone over 55. and i believe medicare must be empowered to negotiate the price of drugs.

california values senator dianne feinstein these folks can't get their story straight, what they should be doing is telling truth. and they should have told the truth a long time ago. mr. giuliani as recently as a week ago has been lying to the american people how and when this occurred. korgs to the disclosure to date

it occurred back in 2017. >> i don't think i ever changed that. the payment to her took place in 2017. now the reimbursement was 2017. the payment, i think was 2016. so he wasn't there for it. >> michael avenatti joins us now in studio. he is of course the lawyer representing stormy daniels. also at the table, legal correspond skpent host of the beat on msnbc, ari melber. gentlemen good the see you. >> thank you. >> michael, respond to what rudy giuliani said there. we had the president at first saying on air force one, he knew nothing about the payment, ask michael cohen. then we heard from rudy giuliani a couple of weeks ago the president made payments in installments. what is the truth as far as you are concerned as you listen to giuliani explain what happened? >> it's worse than that because i think rudy giuliani after he made those states on hannity's show followed that up in an effort to try to claim that the president did not lie on air force one. he tried to claim that the

president only recently found out about it. now of course by way of the disclosure we know in a the reimbursement took place not recently but all the way back in 2017. you know, look, i think it's actually pretty sad at this point. rudy giuliani used to be a heck of a lawyer. he was a great prosecutor. spent a lot of years in public service. but the guy is a character of himself at this point. he is an splut train wreck. he should get off television. he doesn't know the facts. clearly doesn't know the law. stumbles over his words. has no clear message. it's shocking to me that the president can't do better at this point than rudy giuliani. >> giuliani claims the results of any investigation into michael cohen will have nothing to do with the president and he says the president's team has been told that. take a listen. >> they are not worried about cohen, what is happening in the southern district of new york. >> not a lick. we are uninvolved in that. we got assurances we are not

involved in it. >> who would give assurances looic that? where would he get them? >> no one would give him those assurances. the elephant in the room is michael cohen and what michael cohen is going to tell prosecutors when michael cohen is indicted. not if, but when. >> we have had news about michael cohen over the past 24 hours, ari? >> look, michael cohen is not an independent free wheeling freelancing entrepreneur. he represents donald trump. that is his signature line. that is his e-mail address as some of the materials that we have seen from mr. avenatti disclosed. i don't think you have to be a trump critic let alone a conspiracy theorist to see that the federal prosecutors in new york who are pursuing michael cohen may ultimately find things that lead back donald trump. there is no reason we would take as credible a claim by a potential subject or target of the investigation through rudy giuliani they have been assured nothing will come back to them. it's in an early stage. i think the question from mr. avenatti that keeps coming up,

is not are you doing good so far. that's been discussed repeatedly. i think the question is what is left of you to litigate for ms. daniels had he you have gotten her case out into the public and the nda is inoperative. >> it's still operative. trump and colleagues threatening us with violations on the nda. but we need to have the nda invalidated. we want an order that it's in violation of campaign finance law and the like. that's the specific remedy we are seeking as it relates to the nda. we have the defamation against michael cohen. we have the defamation claim against mr. trump. there is a lot of claims left to litigate in connection with this. we are going to continue to litigate those says cases and we

are going to continue to serve as a repository of information. as it comes to us we are going to disclose it. if people don't like that, they can turn the channel or not follow us on twitter and the like. >> what happens to your legal objective if and when it seems highly likely that michael cohen becomes a cooperative witness for the government? >> well, i think what may -- that's a very good question. i think what may follow is he may become a cooperative witness as relates to our case. he may say you are right, she was telling the truth, i knew she was telling the truth at the time. you are right about the nda it should be invalidated. and mr. trump could be left on an island in connection with our case just like he could be left on an island in connection with a criminal prosecution out of sdny. >> in past interviews you have told us other women have come to you, come forward. you said you were vetting them. are they fully vetted.

is there more to share? >> they are to the fully vetted. there are at least two i think are on solid ground you. as the evidence comes out disclosures will be made that my client was not alone as relates to these payments. that michael cohen -- >> two women who allege they have agreements with michael cohen or donald trump? >> correct. >> and two women who claim to have had affairs with donald trump? >> correct. >> and these women r they part of a larger payments? >> i'm sorry. >> did they have larger payments paid to them, larger than $130,000? >> yes. >> much larger? like are we talking about over a million dollars? >> i'm not going to disclose any more. >> are there agreements? >> there appear to be but we have not verified the documents. >> are they your clients now? >> technically not. >> but you are working with them? >> correct, i mean there is privilege attached. >> there is a possibility they may become your clients?

>> yes. >> and you feel that these cases so far in the vetting process appear to be on solid ground to match similar to the stormy daniels line of payment, money from trump to michael cohen to them for their silence? >> yes. >> and -- okay. so are there any other women beyond those two that you are still vetting? >> yes. >> so there could be more than two. >> yes >> are any of them looking like they will appear -- >> this is a good examination. >> i'm wondering about the other women. is it a category where they are a long shot or is it a process of getting through the vetting? >> it is a process of vetting. we want to be careful about what we state. >> can i add one more question? >> yes. >> do you believe that any financial dealings with these women were properly reported at the time or like stormy daniels do you believe they also might create other exposure for donald trump? >> i think they may create additional exposure.

>> payments close to the campaign, close to the timing of stormy daniels payment? >> i don't want to get into the exact timing considerations of when they considered but i think they may prove to be problematic. >> are they willing to have their cases made public in the way stormy daniels has? >> we don't know that. >> and their names will be released. >> this is a huge problem. >> we already have huge problems. prospective campaign finance violations. prospective problems relating to disclosures relating to the assets and other liabilities. the other thing i think is really important -- we talked about this yesterday -- when the 2016 disclosure form was created in may of 2017, donald trump was not the only individual that was consulted in connection with that. michael cohen would have been culted in the preparation of

that form obviously because it related to the assets and liabilities of donald trump in 2016. and the person that wast at the forefront of a lot of that would have been michael cohen. i think a critical question that's going to be asked ultimately is what did michael cohen tell whoever was compiling that form in may or june of last year? meaning related to 2016. what did he tell them? did he have communications with the president about what should go on that foreign minister or other. >> mika, this is part of the reason why michael avenatti has turned out to be such a formenting relentless figure in the life of the trump administration. it is legal to lie to reporters, it is legal to lie to the american public and the voters ultimately decide whether they care. it is illegal to lie to federal authorities. that's why you have a letter, new to rod rosenstein whether there were lies in the financial disclosure form. and also it's illegal to lie to banks. >> on top of that, potentially as you are talking about all of this, one of the huge problems that could occur is both bank

fraud and tax fraud, it would seem. and the president of the united states, who doesn't send e-mails, michael cohen, who obviously has to keep some record of expenditures incoming and outgoing, that's a huge problem. >> i agree with that. i mean, if in fact the president deducted these payments to michael cohen as a legal expense -- meaning expense or legal services, which appears to be what mr. giuliani suggested as relates to how michael cohen was reimbursed, that would be a problem. because it would not be a legal expenditure if it was a pass-through in order to reimburse him for the stormy daniels payment. >> on these two women -- i can't believe i have to ask you this, are one unof them related to this broidy guy as related to trump's name? >> i have not included her in the two. >> really? so that's a third potentially? >> well, potentially. >> yeah. do any of these payments on

these two cases that appear to be on solid ground -- are they for procedure or anything? >> are you asking if one of the payments related ton abortion? >> yeah. >> not that i know of. >> okay. when do you think these two cases that are on solid ground will be fully vetted and these women will be able to come forward? >> i think we are on the verge of being able to state that they are fully vetted. i feel comfortable enough to state this this morning to you. and it's up to them ultimately if they are willing to come forward. i mean, there is a lot of downside associated with that. i mean, i think people don't have a full understanding of what my client has faced and continues to face day in and day out rhetting to her family, relating to threats, relating to death threats, rhetting to a lot of things she has had to put up with. she is a courageous woman. i think ultimately history is going to judge her in a courageous way and i think a lot

of people are going to owe her -- they owe her currently a lot of gratitude frankly. >> are any of those threats made to stormy daniels coming from a place that was representing the president? >> when you say representing the president as opposed to people that are supportive of the president? >> exactly. >> there has been nothing to indicate in the last three months that there have been any threats directed by mr. trump or mr. cohen. >> michael avenatti thank you very much for being on this morning. hope to hear back from you soon. >> thank you. >> especially on those two cases. up next, july joule's appearance on fox news this morning sounded a lot like a strategy session on how to crip telemueller probe. our legal panel weighs in on all of those developments next on "morning joe." (vo) we came here for the friends.

and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. stop fearing your alarm clock... with new*! zzzquil pure zzzs. a drug-free blend of botanicals with melatonin ...that supports your natural sleep cycle...

...so you can seize the morning. new! zzzquil pure zzzs. welcome to holiday inn! thank you! ♪ ♪ wait, i have something for you! every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. save up to 15% when you book early at hollidayinn.com

dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. save up to 15% why did i want a crest 3dk early white smile? so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life.

all right.

i think we got a little breaking news out of interview with michael avenatti. joining us now, former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york and now nbc and msnbc analyst mimi rogers. natasha bertrand. you just tweeted about the avenatti interview. i do think that he sound very close to having two more legitimate clients getting payments from donald trump? >> that's what it sound like. of course this would not be surprising in the least because this is apparently what michael cohen did. he took care of these kinds of problems for the president. and of course it raises more questions about this discrepancy between what the president put in his financial disclosure form yesterday saying that what he reimbursed cohen was about $100,000 to $200,000. and what giuliani had said, which is that the president actually reimbursed michael cohen roughly $470,000.

so was this money to pay him back for other payments to other women? that seems to be what michael avenatti may be foreshadowing. >> so, mimi, just ask you to respond to what avenatti said. he is talking about two women, much larger payments -- correct me if i'm remembering it. >> right. >> they are turning out to be on very solid ground in terms of the vetting. i'm not sure he was clear on the timing of the payments. what did you gather from the interview? >> a couple of things. first of all, you know, the more we see of these, assuming these come out -- i mean one payment is bad, more payments becomes a pattern. and prosecutors are always interested in looking for patterns. also, you know, as natasha said, we know now that he has disclosed the supposed repayment. we don't even know if that's true. we don't know if it's true when

he didn't disclose it or if it is true now that he is. if there are more payments and they are bigger you have to look at what was the source of the moneyist used for the payments? was it trump reimbursing him. was it money coming in to cohen's company from the russian-linked company. that's what investigators are going to be doing. they are going to be backtracking. so i think we are in similar territory, but it becomes a much bigger -- you know, campaign finance violations are more serious if there is many more of them. >> you know, mimi, it would seem, though, that the biggest point of vulnerability here might be, could be, the tax returns of both the president and of michael cohen. now, we don't know whether the special prosecutor has the president's tax returns. but it's highly likely. >> yes. >> highly likely. >> i think he probably does. >> we will read this tweet from david corn. michael avenatti just said on msnbc that he is vetting two

other women who claim they signed ndas and got hush money payments from trump after having affairs with him. may create additional exposure, he says. >> so i mean, i think it does. i think there is a pattern here, and it's beginning to build up. there always was -- especially in the avenatti interview, some alluding to other women. he says he is very close to these cases becoming real. and that their vetting so far after weeks and weeks is on very vold ground. >> we will see if they are vetted out and if the women are willing to come forward. in stormy daniels she has been willing to be put through the wringer as she has. the timing strikes me as interesting for reasons of campaign finance violations. in stormy daniels's case it was in october a couple of weeks before the campaign. michael wouldn't stipulate exactly when these other two women were paid or allegedly were paidoff.

if it was in the past does that matter as much? >> the most important things are the financial disclosure forms from when he was a candidate or president. the further back in time the less likely they were forced to account for it on the forms. the tax requirement is there. unlike the financial disclosures, the taxes don't come you out. i think the other piece of this -- you know donald trump. >> yes. >> you have interviewed donald trump. >> yes. >> this is a man who is constantly talking about how smart he is while disclosing that he won't read anything. >> right. >> constantly talking about how rich he is when we learn he needs to be fronted $100,000, $200,000 sums by a lawyer himself who is currently dealing with financial problems over his town house because the medalians

he put up in leverage have crashed in value. you have a man talking rich but who is actually broke. if you have a lot of capital it would seem it would be simpler to use your capital in real time, accurately account for it in legal documents and leave it. what is giuliani talking about, he paid $400k, and this only accounts for up to 250k -- where is all the money swirling around. >> we cannot take them at their word that it was a home finance loan or a reimburse men by donald trump. none of this is clear. this is just what they are saying. it seems more likely to me at this point that the money going into cohen's company from a

russian-linked company, from american corporations, that that was the money that was used to fun paying off these women. and that gets really complicated. but also really criminal. in my opinion. >> briefly, what mimi raises as a question mika is that the first time that kind thin might have happened or is that something they learned to do when he was 71 but something they learned earlier. >> i think we are about to hear more. great work, guys. rudy was on tv is this, mo. we have that coming up. also up next, how to end a presidency. lawrence tribe is here with his new book, the power of impeachment. you told us other women have come to you, have come forward. you said you were vetting them. are they fully vetted? is there more to share? >> they are not fully vetted but there are at least two that i think are on solid ground.

and as evidence comes out in the coming months disclosures will be made that my client was not alone as relates to these payments, that michael cohen was not a 24/7 sole fixer -- >> two women who allege they have agreements with michael cohen or donald trump? >> correct. >> and women who claim to have had affairs with donald trump? >> correct. >> and these women, are they part of a larger payments? >> i'm sorry? >> did they have larger payments paid to them, larger than $130,000? >> yes. what? directv gives you more for your thing. your... quitting cable and never looking back thing. directv is rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable. switch to directv and now get a $100 reward card. more for your thing. that's our thing. call 1.800 directv.

no one thought much of itm at all.l people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. ♪ tired of wrestling with seemingly impossible cleaning tasks? using wipes in the kitchen, and sprays in the bathroom can be ineffective. try mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. simply add water, and use in your kitchen for burnt on food,

in your bathroom to remove soap scum, and on walls to remove scuffs and marks. it erases 4x more permanent marker per swipe. for tough kitchen and bath messes, use mr. clean magic eraser with durafoam. brand power. helping you buy better. when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. "i donald john trump do solemnly swear." the wall street journal is reporting today that a lawyer for the president arranged a one-hundred-and-thirty-thousand dollar payment to a former adult film star a month before the 2016 presidential election. "that i will faithfully execute." "there was no knowledge of any payments from the president and he's denied all these allegations." "the office of president of the united states." "the raid late today of president trump's personal lawyer and friend michael cohen fbi agents took a host of documents, including some related to cohen's

one-hundred-and-thirty-thousand- dollar payment to porn star stormy daniels" "and will to the best of my ability." "giuliani has just dropped something of a bombshell on that one-hundred-and-thirty-thousand dollar payment." "funneled it through a law firm and the president re-paid it." "oh, i didn't know that he did." "oh, i didn't know that he did." "yep." "preserve, protect and defend." "he'll get his facts straight." "the constitution" we're not changing any stories "of the united states." "people lie." "so help me god."

we're going to find out together. rudy giuliani was back on television this morning. he said the president's legal team will look into whether they can challenge the legitimate of the investigation. said that officials told "the times" the fbi obtained phone records and other documents using national security letters. a secret type of subpoena. and at least one government informant met several times. it's become a could be ten shus point, questioning whether the fbi was spying on the trump campaign or trying to entrap campaign officials. so here is rudy giuliani's response this morning.

>> i mean, i'm shocked to hear that they put a spy in the campaign of a major party candidate or maybe two spies. and now i'm going through my brains -- you know i was a big part of that campaign. trying to figure out who was the spy. now i'm trying to figure out if it was that person or this person. now, if there's a spy, they got nothing from it. look, they'd be able to bring their case right now if the spy had any incriminating information. that spy should have been enough to tell them these people were not talking to the russians. >> following giuliani's appearance, the president tweeted a short time ago, wow, word seems to be coming out that the obama fbi spied on the trump campaign with an embedded inform meant. mccarthy says there's probably no doubt they had at lead one confidential informant in the campaign. if so, this was bigger than watergate. ari, what do you make from

giuliani's appearance, just real quick, anything, anything interesting there? >> when police knock on your door, it's usually a bad sign for you. there's a rich tradition of trying to make the issue about the police. that's all this is. the fbi according to "the new york times" reporting went to extraordinary lengths to protect the reputation of the trump campaign. they didn't want this to leak during the campaign. all of that effort is documented. but also, faced with information about a potential foreign conspiracy to work with americans, they research that and informants are part of that process. >> let's turn now to constitutional law professor, lawrence tribe. he co-authors the new book, "to end a presidency, the power of impeachment." professor, good to see you this morning. this is not specifically a look at how donald trump could be impeached, which is the wish of many anti-trump people, this is more about the process of impeachment, why it exists, how

it's prosecuted. >> that's right, willie, but it's both. it certainly looks at all the things that donald trump appears to have done. the evidence is still out. we don't know all the details about zte, you know, this is a story that moves, as you know better than i do, kind of at lightning speed. this is about how impeachment can succeed and how it can fail and how serious it is. it's the only protection the framers provided against the president who is a complete renegade, doesn't obey the rule of law, threatens democracy, but we have to take it seriously. we can't just shoot from the hip and talk impeachment day and night. we have to wait and see what mueller discovers among other things. >> so obviously, impeachment is a political process. >> right. >> have you seen anything yet that, in your mind, having studied this so closely that would justify impeachment of the president? >> i've seen a number of things that look like they could be in an article of impeachment, both

about obstruction of justice and cooperation, collusion, conspiracy, whatever you want to call it. the technical legal terms really aren't critical. there's plenty there to make impeachment plausible. i think just talki ing impeachmt sort of day and night is like crying wolf. this is footnot a bullet you cae twice. >> what about the act to forcibly remove a president? >> despite nixon leaving, you're right. it tells me the framers set up a drawer that would work only if we had a really extraordinary danger to the republic. someone who, very luckily, we haven't had in the past. there's always a first time. and although our book is very cautious about the difficulty of getting 67 senators to impeach

and convict and not simply bring charges, the way the house does, although we're pretty cautious about that, we definitely don't join those who say stop even thinking about the "i" word. we should stop talking about it as though it's right around the corner. it's not a silver bullet. it's also not a doom's day device. the book explains with historical examples and narratives, that i hope will be fun to read, how it might work. >> natasha, you have a new piece for "the atlantic" entitled "the lingering mysteries of a trump/russia conspiracy." what are they? >> they are numerous. so we still don't exactly know how the shadowy professor joseph misut came to learn that the russians had dirt on the clinton campaign. and then decided to tell the campaign aide papadopoulos about it. whether or not george

papadopoulos told the campaign that the russians had this dirt on clinton, we also don't know, for example, whether or not paul manafort was actually working and whether or not he entered the campaign because he was trying to work with the russians so that he could repay his debt. we still don't know to what extend his ties were there. we don't know what michael flynn and george papadopoulos have told the special counsel about their experiences on the campaign and whether or not the russians were -- was trying to collude with the russians. there's so many we still don't know. to say this investigation has to wrap up, even though it's actually the shortest special counsel investigation with the most, kind of, to show for it, among any kind of special counsel investigations that we've seen in the past decade, couple decades, really says a lot about the break-neck pace at which mueller's working here. >> it really is. ari, final question for the professor. >> what is the evidence that would actually move the congress as opposed to what we know from

court evidence? >> well, i think, first of all, it would have to move a huge bipartisan majority of the public. for example, as it turns out, that it now appears, that the president was willing to give a special break to a dangerous company so it could spy on america, zte, in exchange for 500 million bucks from china, to help him pay for the indonesia project, that would be explosive and it might well do the trick. just to go back to what rudy giuliani said. he said this whole thing is crazy. as you said, ari, that's the typical way one goes after an investigation, smear the cops. the fact is that the justice department had strong evidence that there was a russian spy, that carter page was actually a russian spy, planted in the united states and going back and forth and revealing secrets to russia while being part of the campaign. if that part of thing blossoms as fully as i think it might,

even this supine congress that hasn't stood up to him might stand up. >> thank you very much. natasha, thank you as well. so we had some revelations in the past hour as we close out the show. michael avenatti revealing there are two other women ready to become legitimate cases along with stormy daniels, with ndas and payments from the president through michael cohen for their silence. so we'll be following that all day. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> wow, that's a whole lot of news, thank you, mika. hi, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover. starting with 365 days. today marks one year into robert mueller's russia probe. but according to rudy giuliani, it is all for nothing. >> mueller should now bring this to a close. he's gotten 1.4 million documents. he's interviewed 28 witnesses. and he has