your wing nut has you covered. ♪ hi. ♪ introducing planter's crunchers. a nutty crunch inside a flavorful crunch. ♪ that does it for our hour. my thanks to lawrence tribe, joyce, mike, and matt. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi chuck. >> thank you nicole, how are you doing? 1-1, i like where your warriors are sitting. >> that was passive aggressive of you. >> 1-1 is not bad going back to the bay area. let's go cavs. >> let's see if it holds up. >> i will be impressed if they can beat new oakland. fair enough. if it's thursday, oh, the mueller investigation blows out the birthday candle on number one. tonight, the anti-mueller message. >> witch-hunt. >> witch-hunt. witch-hunt. witch hunt.

>> the latest tactics team trump is using to try and undermine the russia investigation. plus, precious metal. how russia is reaping the benefits after interfering in our elections. and just put it down. by giving your smart phone a bedtime could make you better rested, less depressed, funnier, beloved by children, and pets, and whatever else. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. ♪ good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." if everyone cluds, then everyone is corrupt. so shut mueller down. be a pay treat and give donald trump some money. folks, that line of argument appears to be part of the strategy behind mr. trump's escalating war on bob mueller's russia investigation, which is now officially entering its second year. with 19 indictments, five guilty

pleas and three companies charged, mueller investigation shows no signs of slowing down and every sign of actually inching closer to the president himself. in response, the president and his allies have been ramping up their attacks on mueller's investigation in a number of ways. but perhaps the most dramatic example comes from the president's attorney, rudy giuliani. here's his latest defense of the trump campaign's efforts to dig up dirt on their political opponent which we now know was aided by a russia campaign to meddle in the election. >> that's what you do. maybe you shouldn't, but you do it. nothing illegal about that. and even fit comes from a russian or a german or an american. it doesn't matter. if there was completion with the russians, they would have used it. >> folks, that isn't so much of a defense against coordinating with russia to influence an election as it is a justification for doing it. and it's that justification seemingly boils down to all campaigns are corrupt, everyone does it. it's remarkable to look at just how many people are corrupt according to the president and

his allies, mueller, conflicted, runs a witch-hunt. comey, liar, leak e criminal. comey he's deputy, corrupted by clinton money. rosenstein, start writing his articles of impeach men. obama fbi. tried to frame trump. trump's fbi, a disgrace, storm troopers. folks, this looks like a worst case scenario defense because it's not an argument against the facts so much as it is an argument against the fact finders. and if everyone's corrupt the argument might go, then why are you picking on trump. >> it's only about mueller getting the darn things over with. he owes that to the american people. it's about time to get the darn thing over with. it's about time to say enough, we have tortured the president enough. we are ready to rip them apart f that's what they want. >> today the president marked the one year anniversary of the mueller probe with this. congratulations, america we are now into the second year of the greatest witch-hunt in american history and there is still no completion and no obstruction. the only collusion was that done

by democrats who were unable to win a election despite spending more money. then his campaign isn't out a fund-raising e-mail which said there is still no completion and no obstruction, the own collusion was that done by democrats who were unable to win an election despite them spending more money. folks you can view the white house's attacks on mueller as proof they are worried about possibly being the victims of a conspiracy or as proof they are worried about possibly being the perpetrators of one. either way, expect a lot more of this. >> i have this witch-hunt constantly going on for over 12 months now a. pure and simple witch-hunt. >> all we hear about is this phony russia witch-hunt. they have this witch-hunt going on. the witch-hunt -- it is a witch huchbltd it's like a witch huchblt it's like a witch-hunt. it's a witch-hunt.

it's a witch hunt. the entire thing has been a witch-hunt. so witch-hunt continues. >> how many people are going to follow this president into a war against mueller? joining me now charlie sykes msnbc political analyst and author of how the right lost its mind. and hue hewitt host of saturday mornings right here on msnbc. hugh, i'm going to start with you. how do you defend the rudy giuliani comments? he all but admits that the campaign f offered, wanted to commit a crime? >> it is not a legal strategy. it is a political strategy. it is not a good political strategy. it is a good legal strategy. buried in there is the assurance that the special counsel's office cannot and will not indict him. it doesn't go to whether or not he can be subpoenaed. he said we are not going to sit down with them. he is running a political

strategy in the message. i don't agree with part of it. but i agree with the key finding, a year into the investigation, no evidence that is public from the special counsel of collusion. >> charlie, what do you make of the giuliani comments? how defensible are they. >> well, of course this is a political strategy. what a poisonous brew of transactionalism and cynicism to watch conservative commentators and republican join in this attack on this investigation when you think about it. it's flatly untrue to say there is no evidence of collusion. you have to be living under a rock or get your news from sean hannity not to see all the signs. there are signs of actual collusion all over the place, including the trump tower meeting. look, take a step back and realize how important this investigation is. if there was a conspiracy to attack american democracy, if the president of the united states is compromised by his ties to a foreign power, if

there was money laundering, if there is pay to pay play, all of this stuff -- if the president is lying under oath, if it ever got to -- these are the kind of things that matter, that are important, that the american people need to learn about. so this attack on the investigation is not just a defend. it's really kind of an attack on american political culture. and it's kind of shocking to see how many conservatives have bought into night hugh, do you want to respond. >> the special counsel is not being attacked. i think he ought to be left alone and rod rosenstein ought to be left align. >> how do you say he isn't being attacked witch-hunt. >> it is an attack on the everyall process but not on mueller and they are not going to fire him. it would be a disaster if they would fire mueller. i said that for a year and a half. and i don't know of any conservatives would wouldn't agree with that.

federalist 69 says the president cannot be indicted. the "new york times" today revealed there was either an informant or a source inside the trump campaign. and people like andrew mccarthy, who is respected by everyone, a never trumper like charlie but mccarthy says he is now deeply concerned whether or not there was a counter-intelligence investigation open 100 days from the election on not enough evidence. >> all right. charlie, though, on that point, it is interesting that the president tweeted to try to turn it into that. when did we lose the idea that maybe there was cause? >> yes, there is obviously cause. you don't launch an investigation like this unless there are indications. now, again, we don't know exactly what happened. anyone who speculates about what robert mueller knows or doesn't know is engaging in base speculation. the one thing that should be obvious is this investigation is moving incredibly fast, it is

incredibly wide. it is connecting an awful lot of dots. and the unknown is really dramatic. now, this whole notion there is some sort of a mole inside the trump campaign -- now, there is another way of looking at that, that there is an american citizen who sees possible wrongdoing who sees this kind of potential corruption, and then does his patriotic duty. >> a whistle blower. >> yes, a whistle blower. think about how many people in this story should have picked up the phone and called the fbi. and now suddenly we are supposed to think if somebody did that that that's a sign that something is wrong in this investigation? the world is upside down. >> we need to be open to the fact that maybe they ran an informant like concernico that was controlled by counter-intelligence officials. or maybe there was a source who was a whistle blower. that's a different narrative. i'm trying to remain open and out of the talking loop because we don't know which way this is

going to go yet and i am waiting for the report from the special counsel with great interest. >> let me ask you this -- i've been thinking about the different scandals where we have had these moments, going back to clinton and nixon, what i find troubling here is why isn't there an agreement among trump supporters that if they did do what is alleged, that it's wrong? >> there is. >> i mean, no. that's what we heard from rudy giuliani. >> i think rudy would agree that russians attacking our elections is terrible. you and me agreed beforehand. >> but trump is dismissing it. >> trump believes he didn't have anything to do with it. he believes that. he is separating they did that, that was bad, and i'm building up nato and i have nothing to do with that. if that turns out not to be the case the republican party will turn on him. >> do you believe that? >> no. what is the worst case scenario that you might have had some conspiracy with the russians and

money laundering and the president was compromised or is the worst case snacenario that that curse and his voters won't care about it. i really wonder whether -- the tribalism on the right among republicans and the unwillingness to stand up against this president. the question do they really want to find out who is true? if they do, why is this pushback to characterize it as a witch-hunt? do they not think there are witches or -- >> what is interesting i find that the tribe of never trumpers is more insulated from facts than media. media seems willing to read the "new york times" and read deeper into it. the never trumpers don't want to hear contrary narrative. i think the key thing is to honestly listen to both sides await the report and be willing

to go in either direction the facts lead snoors i want to & a hypothetical. bob mueller is going to come to the two of you. he has the goods. it is a slam dunk. but he has to present to it the public and he knows that he's got a skeptical 40%. what would youred a mice to mueller to be to explain how you got? >> i would take to it robert good lat and chuck grassley as an independent council report. not like starr, not drop in on them without warning. i would say this is coming and i'm going to ask you in the best interests of the country to encourage everyone to read it line by line and absorb its importance. that's how you get people to buy into the importance. go to the chairs. or go over and find the intel people and ask them to do it. then you will get people to give a second pause. i think grassley is one of the rarest of thing in washington, d.c., the honest, thorough -- on hatch, they have been around so long they don't care. >> charlie, what would your

advice be to mueller? i look at the focus group i highlighted yesterday. i wanted to tell bob mueller you better watch this. us a if you have got the good you have got to sell it. >> you have to sell it. and you have to sell it by being fact based. make it as open, as transparent. deal with the situation, lay out exactly who did what in as clear a way as possible so it refutes the kind of conspiracy theories that hugh was peddeling a few minutes ago. remember, robert mueller a year ago when he was appointed the universal respect for this man. remind people that this is a genuinely diplomat effort, a registered republican former fbi director appointed by a republican department of justice. but, again, facts can be stubborn things. and this is the one thing that i think a lot of people were engaging in a lot of spin. i think it's fascinating to hear hugh talk about our talking points here.

we are dealing with a lot of spin. but hard facts, that world in which robert mueller excels in, i think is going to be very powerful. >> it's interesting -- do you agree with him that it is a chuck grassley? who else is somebody that would be -- that sort of trump supporters would listen to -- >> like ken starr it is not a conspiracy theory i just read the facts. >> i admit we have to have more time for the charlie and hugh show. move over avenatti, give me sykes and hewitt. why russia is already seeing the benefits from its mission to cause chaos in 2016. i have to wear a giant hot dog suit. what? where's that coming from? i don't know. i started my 401k early, i diversified... i'm not a big spender. sounds like you're doing a lot. but i still feel like i'm not gonna have enough for retirement. like there's something else i should be doing. with the right conversation, you might find you're doing okay.

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to bring that investigation and the other investigations of this matter to an end. one year of watergate is enough. >> welcome back. that was president richard nixon attacking the one-year-old watergate probe in his 1974 state of the union address. let's bring in tonight's panel of journalists, all three of them who have been not only following the one-year-old mueller probe every step of the way. shane harris. susan glasser. and charlie savage. charlie i'm going to go by old debate rules. since you were name checked or at least your organization was name checked by mr. hoout let's start with you in the grander scheme of things. what was the point of that times story in your mind. some look at it as the "new york times" mea culpa after the november 2016 headline.

how should people take yourster. >> the story is a gigantic reconstruct of the early days of the investigation. we keep saying this is year one of the investigation -- this is just year one of when mueller -- >> will year three almost. >> summer of 2016. >> papadopoulos. >> how did it get going, what was the original code name. and pushing things off that maybe they should have moved aggressively on in the moment but didn't because of the election. one of the things they are talking about is a criticized "new york times" story that said the fbi hadn't found anything yet on trump looking at russia. which was true at the time. but the tone of the article was therefore there is nothing to see there. as opposed to by the way the fbi has a huge investigation into trump and russia. which was low in that story. there was some of that. i think what hugh was saying was that in this reconstruct it mentioned that among the things that happened early was the fbi had some informant, we don't

know the details, who several times talked to papadopoulos, george papadopoulos, and carter page, two associates of the trump campaign who were having suspicious interactions with russians as they were trying to figure out what to do. that shallow shell of the conspiracy smear that there was a spy inside the campaign -- that has been the sort of trump message. he was referring to that should have been the lead of the story. that's his opinion. but he was also sort of wildly overstating i think what having an informant talk to someone versus having a spy embedded in the campaign. >> anyway, i ed felt like the "new york times" was getting hit and i felt like you would be a good explainer there. one year of watergate is enough. earlier this week or laid last week -- i get my dates confused at this point, the vice president said this to andrea mitchell about the mueller probe. >> what i think is that it's

been about a year since this investigation began. our administration has provided over a million documents. we have fully cooperated in it. and in the interests of the country, i think it's type to wrap it up and i would very respectfully encourage the special counsel and his team to bring their work to completion. >> we have fully cooperated. i don't know about fully cooperated. if you haven't deny an interview yet. susan, what do you make of this? one year enough? >> look, said by every president under investigation ever. sos that one thing where there is bipartisan agreement in washington. if the special down is he will is after you, it's gone on for too long. the bottom line is is that, you know, i still feel like we are early days in this investigation, number one if you look at the average length of time of a special counsel probe i believe it's something like three years. number two, without the evidence yet being presented i strongly suspect that as much as we

desire to kind of flip to the end of the facebook and see what happens here, that we might still number the prolog as far as it goes in the book of the mueller investigation. >> where are we? okay. so where are we here? shane, where do you feel as if -- i had somebody to me that the michael cohen decision to get that stuff that they were afraidas was going to get destroyed -- i had fbi on, they say don't call it a raid. they feel like that was a mischaracterization, that that was the last act of the evidence gathering. >> everyone feels like we are at the beginning of the end. >> or the end of the beginning or something. >> yeah. >> that cliche, we could beat the crap out of that. >> we are still in the play. i think for all of us who covered this, we have learned to be humble in the face this investigation and realize that bob mueller knows much more than we do. we have been surprised by the indictments. 19 indictments, five guilty pleas that's a measure of where we are as well.

another parallel piece of this has been possible investigation into possible obstruction of the investigation and the way the president and his supporters have routinely been threatening the independent of the special counsel. you mentioned the "new york times." i agree with charlie. it does not say there is a mole inside the trump campaign. nevertheless rudy giuliani and the president seized on this to create another what looks to be a pretext for trying to shut down the investigation. we have seen that play run two or three times now. >> do we cover the obstruction part too much in that it's not as important in the mueller investigation? i have had the theory, the obstruction case is only as strong as the actual case. >> the thing about the obstruction case is it's right there on the surface. >> easy to see it. >> comey got removed and then put out his e-mail with his accounts of trump pressuring him to go easy on flynn and so

forth. we kind of know what's there. maybe mueller found out more. but we have a good idea of what it is and that's why we talk about it so much. we have no idea what mueller found. pursuing the monies only in the last week or two does it come to light this they were pursuing the money corporations were handing to michael cohen and they were interviewing the corporations six months ago about that. we had no idea. that's the iceberg. and we are looking at the piece of ice underthe water and wondering what is beneath it of the. >> i think chuck makes an excellent point. because we know so little about the underlying fact that really tends to color what you think about whether trump obstructed. you could say it's on the surface on the one hand but his incentive to remove comey or obstruction the investigation does depend on the level how much he felt himself to be at real risk here. think about the trump tower meeting. we found out about that a year

ago. that was a real revelation that got this mueller phase of the investigation going, right? >> it did. you know, when people ask me where are we, how soon is this going to end i always remind people mueller has yet to issue an indictment on the crime yet? >> what crime in the crime of stealing the e-mails. i have got to think that's imminent. i feel like, every day i'm wondering is this the morning that i get the courthouse alert. >> we go back to when he issued the stunning speaking indictment of the russians officials where they penetrated social media, sent operatives here, hired people to dress up as hillary clinton in a cage. that's the setup of what would come next. it never mentioned the theft of the dnc e-mails and the depths that the investigators have gone and all the leads they have been able to follow that we had no idea were out there, i think it is probably a safe bet that

something of that color is coming. >> timing is everything here. you know, does mueller go through the campaign at this point? is it your sense that this isn't going to enbefore november? >> of course we still have to find out whether the president is going to talk to him. that does raise one interesting question. he is supposed to be obeying justice department frurs and practices and so forth. that's where the notion that he can't indict trump until trump is out of office. another principle is you stay away from doing law enforcement moves that could effect an election. that's one of the thing that people dinged jim comey about. >> either he is going to hurry up and finish or pause? >> if if he obeys that norm, things better be silenting two into the election. >> if he don't see something by september it is extremely unlikenily. >> then he becomes silent. >> there has been speculation

about that. but remember trump were you ever not running again. you could see the target or subject of the investigation is not necessarily within the bound of that cooloff period. >> because he's not on the ballot. >> correct. >> the manafort case is supposed to start in the fall. >> the trial in september. imagine that every day. shane, susan, charlie, stick around. still to come, something involving president trump. or maybe not. we'll see what happens. is not always easy. it's a long-distance run. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over 10 years. humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance in just four months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal, infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.

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welcome back. tonight im "tonight, i'm obsess what's going to happen. i love me a cliff hanger. so does this guy. president trump met with the nato secretary general and was asked about his plans for the meeting with north korea's kim jong-un. what is going to happen, as the president made clear, we'll see. >> we will see what happens. we will see what happens. my attitude is whatever happens, happens. we will see what happens. we will see how it all turns out. we'll see what happens. but we'll see. >> literally, he did say that that many vat times today. in fact it turns out he says that about a lot of things. >> we will see how it all works out. we will see what happens. we will see what happens. we will see what happens. we will see what happens. we will see how it goes and we will see what happens. we will see what happens. we will see what happens. we'll see what happens. we'll see. we'll see.

we will a see how we do with iran. >> and bob mueller's investigation? where is that going? we'll see what happens.

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i'm deety roy with the cnbc market wrap. the broader market closing lower after the president said he doubts trade negotiations with china will be successful. the dow falling 55 points, the s&p slipped 2 points. the nasdaq dropped 16 with all the fangs trading lower. and united airlines is now searching for a chief financial officer following the resignation of cfo an degree levy. jerry laterman, the airline's treasurer will serve as cfo in the interim. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "mtp daily." welcome back. russia meddled in the 2016 election. everybody seems to actually agree with that fact. what has vladimir putin gotten

for his trbls? we bet he was happy today when he saw what did not happen at the white house. in fact what was canceled at the white house. president trump opted not to do a traditional side by side news conference with the visiting nato secretary general. no side by side podiums. no formal room of reporters or special report on the networks. instead they let cameras into the room very briefly in the middle of their meeting. we call it in our business a spray. one thing we know putin wants, a week in nato. you can argue simply doing a symbolic thing like that and then some is saying he is getting with it president trump. but that's not the only return on putin's investment. he wanted to erode americans confidence in democracy. doubts about the fbi, check, a year long investigation, check, the u.s. government paralyzed, polarization, that's just the start of it. president trump says of course

no one has been tougher on russia than he has, his allies point to arms sales to ukraines. and others. what is real and what isn't. let's bring in evelyn farcas. welcome back. >> thank you very much. >> okay. we we have heard the argument that the trump administration has been very tough on russia. at the same time i laid out what appears to be what did putin hope to get and has he gotten a return on investment. assess those two arguments. >> well, it's true that the trump administration has taken some action vis-a-vis russia that's tough, in some ways tougher than president obama. the administration that i was part. we did not authorize lethal defensive weapons to ukraine. the trump administration did that. they continued the sanctions although reluctantly after a long time that we had in place and strengthened them over time. on the other side we see president trump continuing to

praise president putin along with a bunch of other strong leaders, if you will, autocrats. we see him, our president really exacerbating the differences between ourselves and our transatlantic allies. you talked today about the lack of a press conference. i actually think that might because president trump didn't want to be asked questions about domestic issues. >> perhaps, but symbolically. >> it was bad. >> pushing aside. imagine if he had had done that with the heads of estonia, latvia and lithuania? we would be jumping up and down about it. >> yes, yes. >> yeah. >> and the other thing is that this comes in a week when you have angela merkel saying on tuesday that there is a break in german/american -- and then she says european/american relations. yes, and then we also had the external affairs commissioner for the european union meeting with the iranians trying to salvage that deal, the nuclear

deal. we have of course the tariffs issue that's also dividing us from our european allies. that's just europe. there were a host of issues in themy as well as asia. >> i was going to say. let's go through these things. i want to do it piece by piece. he wants to embarrass democracy for the world to say it's not what they claim it is. >> it is a mess. >> he is succeeding right now, pr wise. you pointed out the european issue. i would throw in putin, whether he wanted the u.s. out of the climate agreement, he loves the yid it has made them mad. the alliance between america and western europe has never been more uneasy in a generation. >> yes. probably. i think it's hard to say. we have had periods of tension, even under reagan. >> and the iraq war created some tension but we at least always had the uk with us. >> yes, always had the uk with us. the uk is also weakened in part

because of russian meddling which came to bear -- the impact on the brexit vote as well as other meddling as well as the poisonings, things like that, the russian investments, et cetera. >> he also has a goal of -- if he can't be a super power then he doesn't want any super powers. he is hoping to almost regionalize everybody's power. he got the u.s. to withdraw from the middle east, out of the iran deal, withdraw from asia, getting out of tpp. i'm not saying putin pushed that but is that part of his roi? >> he y he doesn't want america to be a strong power. so all the thing trump has done with regards to trade putt inis cheering from the sidelines. the breaking of the iran nuclear deal which is what we are trying to do although the europeans as i mention ready trying to keep it alive. that was a symbolic big grand trumpian evident but it's having a negative impact because it's distracting from the real issue in the middle east which is the

ongoing civil war in syria and the conflict in and around syria, which also involves israel. these issues that trump is highlighting, the iran deal and moving the embassy to jerusalem within israel are distracting from the real serious issues in the middle east. and actually russia's negatively impacted even though they won't admit it. >> but there has been a weird upside for him with us pulling out of iran. the price of oil has gone up. that's suddenly an economic safety net there potentially for putin. >> i think for the russians on the iran deal, they were part of the deal. they are kind of for it because he have a history of non-proliferation. but if we leave the deal, the best benefit is again reinforcing this rift between us and our european allies and then of course as you mention the economic side benefit of the oil prices going up. >> was the brilliance of the strategy by putin to interfere in the election and best case scenario he gets a like minded nationalist or a believer in

blrl, unilateralism not multilateralism. even if clinton can won he sewed so much dissent and confusion that we would probably be in the middle of russia interference investigations now but in all sorts of weird ways. >> we would way, but clinton would have maintained our alliances. she is a very traditional politician in that respect. and she was secretary of state. she understand that is the under -- the basis for u.s. power is not just our raw power. it's not just what we have militarily, you know, our huge military and our defense industrial base. it's not just our economy. it's the influence that we wear, the way that we can use those tools in order to effect change in the world. that's through alliances. the russians don't have real friend. >> is there any part where putin is going boy, was i too successful because it look like i flew too close to the sun because trump may be flying too close to the sun and the whole gig may be up? >> i used to think when we would bet who did the kremlin want to

win this the early days before all this scandal came out that the russians would actually want hillary clinton because as much as putin hates her, you know, she's predictable. and trump is not predictable. and i think this investigation also has brought to light a lot of putin's issues, a lot of his business, i think will be revealed at the end by mueller. we see his chef, the so-called chef, putin's defense contractor, he is basically -- runs a mercenary outfit as well as a bunch of other businesses. that gentleman has been indicted -- gentleman i'm using the term loosely. anyway, that guy has been indicted by robert mueller and by the united states. so we are going to see more information coming out on putin. >> some day he may say it ended up going too far because it's going to cost me. >> i think so. at some point the russian people will become aware of it. >> he have listen farcas

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moderates say they are tired of waiting for a solution the protect d.r.e.a.m.ers. 20 republicans signed on to an effort to force a debate and potential vote on the house floor. they are using it as leverage to try to strike a deal. many of these republicans are in the tough districts facing tough re-election fights this year with lots of hispanic constituents. like california's jeff denim who is leading the push for these votes even though he is friend with mccarthy who is trying to stop this thing. he is out with this ad. the ad is in spanish. >> if you couldn't hear it there, that was a primal scream from republican centrists if you will and a a sign of how panicked some of them are about losing their jobs. trust me you wouldn't want to start a fight inside the house of representatives if you didn't

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time now for "the lid." the panel is back. it's our russia reporter extravaganza here on one year of the mueller probe. shane harris, susan glasser, charlie savage. susan you lived in moscow and i think you still speak pretty good russian. putin's return on investment segment, anything you would have added. >> i thought that was a great conversation with evelyn. i'm struck. every day there are so many examples of this. yesterday you had the president of the european commission tweeting and then repeating at a press conference that basically, after the iran deal decision with friends and allies like these, who needs enemies? even at the height of our disagreements with europeans say during the cold war in 1982, missiles in germany and the like. >> or iraq war. >> iraq war. >> yeah.

>> you never ever heard anything like that. i can only imagine that might have been one of the reasons why president trump did not want to have the press conference today with attorney general stoltenberg. >> i think that's right. even though it symbolically showed gees, he is snubbing nato. i think putin would have loved that symbolism. let me go back to the probe here and michael cohen. seems every couple of weeks "vanity fair" they have got some great sources in his world. what did we learn from it? er hao, cohen, according to two people familiar with his thinking has vacillated over fuming between things like michael avenatti's involvement and being browbeaten by the headlines also saying i am not going to roll over, and at times he says i'm at the end of my rope. >> that sound about right. that's what i would be feeling in his shoes right now. >> that sounds like a human condition. >> i would feel whipsawed as well. what has been fascinating about

this is that michael cohen, obviously he sits at the inner circle of the trump organization. is he a lawyer? is he a fixer? he is all kinds of these things. it provides a window into the services he has done but it's the clearest explanations for giving the lie to the president's explanations. his insistence . >> you can encapsulate it. >> charlie, i think this is a question -- i saw it show up in the focus groups that peter hart had earlier this week when someone said i don't understand what stormy daniels has to do with bob mueller. i understand why somebody who is working every day would be confused. how connected about michael cohen be to the mueller probe do you think?

>> part of the strategy was to spin it off to get it to the district of new york. >> they want the evidence. >> they may get it. >> i was just saying -- >> but the narrative, it's not about the special counsel, all the smear attacks on the partisans doesn't apply now because it is a southern district of new york, a different chunk of the justice department. that has complicated the ability to defend trump in the right wing media circles by vilifying mueller. and it has to be adding to the tension about -- you are saying what is michael cohen's mind-set? he is sweating, obviously. the question is whether he is going to flip and cut a deal. the thing that's holding him back has to be holding out hope that trump is going to issue a pardon for him. if trump did that it ob would be cataclysmic. but it's more interesting every day.

>> the narrative that the public hears is confusion. that doesn't help mueller's ability to be believed. >> that's right. right now, trump is wamging a pr campaign and mueller is waging an investigation and a legal case. those are very different matters. that's why i keep saying we are this the prolog or the early chapters of the book because the point at which you make a case for your evidence is the point in custom you assembled your evidence and presented it in a a a public forum. remember that michael cohen is not just some lawyer. he's president trump's personal fixer. essentially trump's only client is him. and i think that it did astonish and kind of rock the political world when they came to realize how much new peril the president

might be in as a result of the widening investigation into cohen. so your question is a good question that we don't know the answer to. will the russia angle resurface as they do a forensic dive into michael cohen's business dealings? was there russian money flowing through there? there is early indications that maybe there was. >> breaking news on the mueller probe. right now at reuter's, and we are working on it, it's out there and circulating that paul manafort's son-in-law is supposedly now cooperating with the government. shane, how important is that? that all about the manafort case? how separate? >> it's certainly about the manafort case if this former son-in-law is able to provide information about manafort's businesses. does that bounce back into russia? maybe. but that's not good news for manafort. >> rick gates went. now his son-in-law. question is does paul manafort flip? ing all right guys. thank you very much.

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you'll only pay $4.95. oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. xfinity mobile: find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. this tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie? it's a drone! i know. find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. in case you missed it, wait, what am i talking about? of course you missed it, because you've been staring at your phone the whole time, haven't you? you're trying to two-screen me. a recent study found americans check their phones once every 12 minutes, that's 80 times a day. that's my 9:00 hour. maybe we shouldn't. at least not at night. here's why.

researchers are thinking screen time at night with disrupted sleep, linked to greater depression and unhappiness. so the suggestion, switch off your devices after 10:00 p.m. easier said than done, though, people. try our world. in our 24-hour world, political news comes at you fast and furious. take the president's tweets. we crunched the numbers. 15% of the 33,000-plus tweets he has sent have come between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. we can't miss that 15%, god knows. there's just no time to unplug. still, i wonder, what would washington be like if we all disconnected after 10:00. ♪ ♪ >> could you even imagine?

a happy washington, where everyone gets along, where we put our machines down and -- oh, wait, sorry, let me take care of this. i gotta go, i gotta send it over to ari melber. ari, i gotta check my phone. >> we're all addicted. i started my 5:00 hour watching the top of your show, as we so often do. and i do your headline banner, "mo mueller, mo problems." i gotta say i love that. >> my staff always said, that's one ari will like. >> do they? >> when there's hip-hop references, that's all for ari. >> and biggie said "federal agents mad because i'm flagrant, tap my phone in the basement." there's a lot of law enforcement issues in that song. >> i hear that's what michael cohen is listening to now. >> could be. we begin with new heat tonight on the man chu