worried where trump sitting down with mueller saying mueller might set a perjury trap because "truth is relative," and they may have a different version of the truth than we do. spoken like a true college student. that does it for us. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. trump at his worst. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in boston. this week president trump proved he's willing to destroy this country's law enforcement institutions in order to protect himself from justice using a conspiracy theory to trash the justice department and the fbi. he's attempting to extort information about the investigation of him. and his campaign. today, in an aapparently effort to placate the president, the department of justice took some

steps to yield to his demands. in two separate meetings, top justice department and intelligence officials met with trump's congressional allies and other lawmakers to go over confidential materials about the use of an fbi informant in the russia probe. afterwards, speaking on behalf of the democrats, congressman adam schiff said there was nothing in the briefings to support the president's conspiracy theory. >> nothing we heard today has changed our view that there is no evidence to support any allegation that the fbi or any intelligence agency placed a spy in the trump campaign or otherwise failed to follow appropriate procedures and protocols. thank you. >> in another stunning it development, we learned one of the president's defense attorneys in the russia probe, emmet flood, was present for part of both meetings. though he left before any classified information was discussed. he was there along with trump's

chief of staff john kelly even though sarah sanders specifically said on tuesday that no one from the white house would participate. in a statement today, the white house said that neither chief kelly nor mr. flood attended the meetings but made brief remarks before the meeting started to relay the president's desire for as much openness as possible under the law. however, that explanation didn't senator democratic senator mark warner who said on twitter, for the record, the president's chief of staff and his attorney in an ongoing criminal investigation into the president's campaign have no business showing up to a classified intelligence briefing. despite all there, rudy giuliani appeared to suggest the president would ultimately learn what came out of the meeting anyway speaking of his negotiations whether the president will testify, he said we want to see how much we learned from the briefing today. if we learned a good deal, it will shorten that process considerably. wow. i'm joined by david corn, mother

jones and msnbc political analyst, heidi priz ba la, and seth waxman, a former federal prosecutor. david, this is a rabbit holy think. i think the justice department has been drawn down into the rabbit hole. i don't know why they agreed to this meeting or talking about their evidence. the president is the defendant in this case in all effects. why are they giving his lawyer access to the meeting, his chief of staff access to the meeting, and why are they even meeting with these people? they're investigating them. i've never heard of investigators meeting with the people they're investigating to go over their evidence to see if it's okay that they use it. it's extraordinary. >> it's a continuation of what we've seen for over a year now. first they said unmasking was the real scandal. it wasn't. then they said obama bugging trump was the scandal. no, it wasn't. fisa warrant, uranium one and now it's this phony baloney

story about a spy on the campaign. this is donald trump and all his minions creating alternative realities. just fake facts to get out there to distract from the core issue, russia attacked this country and while russia was attacking this country during the 2016 campaign, the trump campaign was sending out positive signals to russia and denying to the public that this attack was under way. every moment they throw up one of these confusing narratives, it distracts and keeps us from talking about the real thing itself. now it's degrading the justice department. >> heidi, how do you as a reporter keep the focus away from this reality trump keeps creating? >> he is running a fake presidency. this whole thing doesn't exist any more than the birther thing existed. it's madeup stuff, all the stuff david just mentioned is fabricated, fake. yet, it's covered because the

president of the united states deserves daily press coverage. how do you stop covering what is fake itself? >> no one is stopping in his own party. that is why is this is continues to happen. rosenstein is doing his best, making a calculation here that he's going to try and in the end save this investigation by mollifying this president in terms of even agreeing to this meeting in the first place. but what happened? as soon as he agreed to the meeting, chris, a day later is when the president began this whole spy gate tweeting conspiracy. so the president, what he's doing is taking any and every advantage when that sliver opens in the door to throw up the fog like david said. this is round three. we saw the wiretapping allegations, we saw the unmasking allegations. all of it bogus. today no one coming out of that meeting and saying there was any credibility to these accusatio s

there was a spy in his campaign. on the contrary, james clapper confirmed an informant was needed because of evidence based n investigation showing that there was a need for someone to go into the campaign and find out what the heck was going on with the russians trying to communicate with the potential future president of the united states. >> again, i go back to the reverse universe where you say suppose we had an fbi that did not check out evidence that the russians were messing with our presidential election including one of the campaigns that they were taking one of the sides. if they were not doing that, what would we make of the fbi in terms of counter intelligence? were they doing their job? of course, not. well the president continued to purposefully misrepresent the fact on twitter this morning, falsely saying that the former director of national intelligence, james clapper "has now admitted that there was spying in my campaign."

however, clap ker very clearly said just the opposite on tuesday. let's watch him. >> was the fbi spying on trump's campaign? >> no, no, they were not. they were spying on a term i don't particularly like on what the russians were doing trying to understand were the russians trying to access and leverage and influence which is what they do. >> seth what, do we do about our 0 judicial system to keep it whole where you have a president who has been able to push his way into the actual investigation itself, bringing his attorney, private sector attorney emmet flood into a meeting to sort of make it clear who the boss is, bring his chief of staff into the meeting for the same purpose, all the time demanding what he calls transparency? in other words, he wants to know everything he can about what's coming his way in terms of the investigation so that he can throw it over, pull it apart, pull the plug on it or what. i never heard of a situation where the defendant gets to call

the shots in the investigation. >> yeah, it's entirely unprecedented. maybe except for the nixon administration. we know how that turned out. the idea that a subject gets to send his surrogates into the prosecutor's office, demand to see documents, demand to know the identity of a confidential informant, learn how that informant was run and operated doesn't happen. then you sends mr. flood, the attorney to wait outside and shake hands of people walking in saying let's keep it transparent. >> there's a threat with that. he works for the boss. he's going to report back to the boss. what the boss wants is the result that you all know. let's go in there and make sure the right result comes out as trump has said and what you know he wants. it's troubling and as for the judicial system, we all have to hope that the wheels of justice will the continue to grind the way they're supposed to and ultimately the right result will come out. unlike business where sometimes

the ends, the capitalization, the winning of a deal is the goal, the justice department works differently. it is the process that counts. ewussed to talk when we were prosecutors, it doesn't mat fer it's guilt or innocence at the end of the day, as long as the process was followed. that is the right result. a not guilty verdict is justice if the process was followed. that's what we're losing here, the process. >> david, let's go back to something we've been through together. that's the ability of a president to create treat create something because he is president that people begin to believe must it be sort of real. so had you bush getting us into the war in iraq basedmon upon whoever r whoever where he never admitted his own motive and came up with a motive for the country, something called wmd and how they had it and blah, blah, and there were meetings in prague and all kinds of stuff and cheney lied. they created a reality. here's a president who uses words like spy and spy gate and

people out there in the talk shows, i just know they're eating it up. eating it up the columnists on the right buying into a total hallucinati hallucination. what are begoing to do in our democracy as we move forward to prevent presidents from creating something out of nothing just for their political survival? >> trump is doing something new here. you and i have been through a bunch of scandals whether it was watergate, iran con traction even the monica lewinsky stuff and campaign finance scandals of the clinton years and wmd stuff. there never was a dispute over some basic realities. there was a break-in at watergate. arms were sold to iran and money given to the con traz and people accepted these things once they emerged. people tried to keep them hidden. the question was who knew what, was there a violation of law. there time around, donald trump has i guess learned the lesson

of marketing that the truth doesn't matter. so he gets out there and says there was no attack. it's all a hoax. it's all a witch hunt. he knows 30% of his people, the people who he said would stick with him even if he shot someone on fifth avenue will accept his reality. and i heard this frustration in heidi's voice when she spoke a few minutes ago. how had do you break through that, how do you have a set of facts you can talk about and deal with them and have a true national discourse. trump is doing everything possible to make sure we can't have an honest debate because he can't survive one. >> this morning came after a former top intelligence official, five officials expressed concern how is the investigation is becoming politicized. "when congressional oversight is focused on counter intelligence investigations we worry about inappropriate political influence on the investigators and the erosion of a bipartisan approach to intelligence and

national security." heidi, back to you. how do we cover -- we have people like paul ryan, i always think has been overstipulated in his ability and his character. i'm serious about this. why is he going over this? this is like boehner before him saying i don't want to tell people what to think about birtherism. they're so spineless in the republican party, they're puppets for trump and will say anything or avoid saying anything against trump for fear of their base kicking them out. >> of course, this is a big legacy question for paul ryan, chris, because unlike mitch mcconnell, he's got devin nunes and he's not been rairning in announce. a lot of this goes back to in terms of throwing up the fog and speaking about unmasking and wiretapping and this whole meeting that was arranged to nunes. why this is different, what nixon did not have was a far right media echo chamber that is

allowing this to happen. chris, i was in the heartland this past week in cadillac, michigan, and every place that i walked into had those chirons up at the bottom of fox news talking about spies infiltrating the trump campaign. no matter what they say, 30% of the people are going to believe it. and this is why it's working, chris, because at the end of the day, no matter what mueller's recommendations are, it's not up to him to take action. who is up to? it's up to congress. congress will have to look at those findings and decide whether or not to impeach. you have that question out there still about whether you can indict a sitting president. that leaves it to congress. if they can throw up enough of a fog and just exhaust people about what the truth is, they've succeeded. when the findings come out, 30% at least will not believe them. >> well, the question arises what is the party of lincoln going to be represented by

someone like lincoln? and loyal to that tradition. asked whether the meeting today was appropriate, paul ryan backed calls to investigate the investigators and defended ruch's actions in the name of transparency. let's watch. >> we know russia med ded in our election. we know there was -- we're going to get to the bottom of that and we'll find how all that took place. a lot of this is classified. we'll have more briefings on this today. i don't know the answer to that question. >> do you think that the president has done any lasting damage to the fbi and doj? >> no, i do not believe that that is the case. i think, first of all, it's important we have good thorough oversight accountability and transparent sit heals all wounds that are committed by a government. >> seth, sooner or later i hope this comes to a reckoning. most americans do want the

facts. somehow even in the report by mr. mueller himself that would go to the country and perhaps, as well to the congress, utley perhaps to congress if it's a democratic congress or republican congress, this very to rule on there. is there impeachable grounds. that's a good point. can you do that where facts themselveses are questioned, where one side can say those are facts as rudy giuliani said yesterday, there are different versions of the truth. what does that mean exactly? what do you mean different versions of the truth? >> i mean, that's very troubling. what you have to believe is when the process is carried out that there will be a fair, open and honest hearing whether that's a trial oral impeachment proceeding. it's my opinion that trump and his team have the long game in mind that a sitting president will not be indicted. there are constitution hurdles for that. that might be the correct result. so in an impeachment proceeding, there needs to be two-thirds of the senate to remove a sitting president. so there needs -- all trump is looking for is 34 republican

senators that despite what the evidence is, despite how overwhelming it might be, to david's point earlier, he could go on fifth avenue and shoot someone and the people will stand by him. if those 34 republican senators will vote not to remove him in il peachment proceedings, he wins. he may tear the country part in the process. that may it be his end game. donald trump cares about one thing only. it's himself. i don't know that he has a perspective on the institution of the presidency. >> i wish some reporters would go out and go door 0 door of the zunts senate and ask all the senators if donald trump or any president shot someone on fifth avenue point blank in broad daylight, would you vote to remove him from office or not. i'm telling you, you're going to have a hard time getting dozens of those republicans to say even then would they move to take this guy out of office. >> no comment. >> they're all scared to death. >> they would just send their thoughts and prayers, chris. >> thank you, sir.

david corn, of course, heidi pryzbilla and seth waxman, thank you for your various contributions to this-year-old discussion. the other big story of the day, president trump called off his summit with north korea. what have now? we'll find out whether kim jong-un is really wanting to make a deal with us or whether they want to play with us. plus, the nfl caves to trump vowing to find teams whose players kneel during data national anthem. for some players and former players it's a decision that hits them as un-american. we'll talk to one of them tonight. and trump's tribalism. he's willing to tear down the institutions of this country and stir it up distractions as his way of shielding himself from justice. he's using this, taking issue on that front. it's all about the rule of trump, not the rule of law. he wants people taking sides. tribally preferably. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. this is "hardball." or plan for tomorrow?

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>> as trump moves to prove actually to fool his base into thinking there's a deep state conspiracy against him, steven colbert is blowing the whistle, here he is last night finding a few flaws in trump's lodge. >> i can late last night, last night trump blew the lid off the deep state's plan tweeting, if the person placed very i recall i into my campaign wasn't a spy, put there by the previous administration for political purposes, how come such a seemingly massive amount of money was paid for services rendered many times higher than normal, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, follow the money. the spy was there early in the campaign and yet, never reported collusion with russia because there was no collusion. he was only there to spy for political reasons and to help crooked hillary win. yes, follow trump down account rabbit hole here, okay? they embedded a spy early on and

paid him massive sums of money to sabotage the trump campaign with false claims of russian collusion in the press to help hillary clinton win and then, and here's the insidious part, they didn't tell the press. and hillary clinton lost so when trump reveal this had plot, he would seem like a desperate criminal spinning con spir sill theories to stop the walls from closing in. nice try, deep state. nice try. >> that's not satire nip. that's america. we'll be right back. looking for advantages. the smart ones look to fidelity to find them. we give you research and data-visualization tools to help identify potential opportunities. so, you can do it this way... or get everything you need to help capture investment ideas and make smarter trading decisions with fidelity for just $4.95 per online u.s. equity trade. fidelity. open an account today. ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." it was a stunning turn around today. president trump canceled the summit with the kim jong-un in singapore. in a letter addressed to his excellency, the north korean leader trump cited tremendous anger and open hostility as the reason for canceling the meeting warning the dictator you talk

about your nuclear capabilities but ours are so massive and powerful i pray to god they will never have to be used. he deliver this had warning a few hours later. >> i've spoken to general mattis and the joint chiefs of staff and our military which is by far the most powerful anywhere in the world that has been greatly enhanced recently as you all know is ready if necessary. hopefully positive things will be taking place with respect to the future of north korea. but if they don't, we are more ready than we have ever been before. >> we, the decision to cancel the summit came hours after north korea threatened to call it off themselves. the north korean envoy warned among yang could make the u.s. taste an appalling tragedy it has neither experienced nor imagined if american officials continue to threaten their

leadership. they took issue with recent comments by vice president mike pence. >> we really hope that kim jong-un will seize the opportunity to dismantle his nuclear weapons program and do so by peaceable means. you know, there was some talk about the libyan model last week. and you know, as the president made clear, you know, this -- this will only end like the libyan model ended if kim jong-un doesn't make a deal. >> well, the north korean envoy called the comments by the vice president ignorant and stupid and called the vice president himself a political dummy. the move caught our allies in the region off guard. the south korean president said he was perplexed and called an emergency midnight meeting with his top aides to figure out what they do next. i'm joined by andrea mitchell. joel scirrhous yoen nia msnbc

nuclear security analyst and gordon chang from "the daily beast" and author of "the coming collapse of china." andrea, i know you know more than i know. what's behind all this? is it our fault, their fault? why is this breaking down? >> certainly there's a lot of the criticism na the president leaped into this had too quickly, did not wait to be fully briefed by the south koreans and go through what would be a normal national security council process of hearing from au sides. once it was engaged a lot of people thought maybe this could work. he then persisted to have very high expectations talking about complete denuclearization. it wasn't ever clear the two sides agreed what this really meant and according to my reporting and to a lot of experts we've spoken to today, china intervened in the last couple of weeks, we saw a definite hardening of north korea's stance. the president alluded to this himself after kim jong-un's second visit to china in the

last two months. it was only the second time he had been to china in six years, he had never been there. the fact that after this second visit certainly the analysis seems to be that china was telling him to chlo down. they felt sidelined by it. the last thing they want to see is reunification of north and south with china opt sidelines and with the u.s. such a dominant player, a u.s./north korea summit with south korea marginally involved and china left out of the whole discussion. so china was going to be the biggest loser here and took action. now the biggest loser is certainly president moon of north korea who ran heavily his whole political campaign was based on reconciliation north and south. he was heavily invested in and he was in the oval office two days ago and still talking about this summit taking place. >> how can we cut a deal with north korea quhout chip's support. >> i think we'll have to because there's been a lot of chinese

mischief make. since the middle of february, beginning of march, we've seen china's sanctions enforcement markedly deteriorate. i think that's one of the reasons we're in the predicament we are now. president trump should have called the chinese out on this earlier. he only called them out on it on monday and basically beijing felt it could do a lot and the united states wouldn't oppose hill. so that's why we've got a very bad dynamic going at this particular moment. >> joe, any hope for a deal? is this perhaps business dealing by trump where you walk away from the table so the other side has to come back with a better offer? >> it's possible you could back this up and start to do it the way you would normally do something like this. a lot of preparation, months of discussion, mid level, then more senior officials and a summit that caps off the agreement. we're trapped in a wup man national security policy from hell. he blind sides allies. he doesn't consult with

congress. as far as we know, he didn't consult with his own national security council. he dick tas this bizarre actually embarrassing letter. could this be a negotiating strategy? possibly. we have no idea what's about to happen with this president either on domestic or here on international security policy. we're back to playing a game of nuclear chicken in the korean peninsula. >> let's go back to andrea. why do you think the president allowed his national security adviser, john bolton and why does he allow his vice president to do this trash talk? i think that's the right word for it, talking about regime change, talking about the kind of language you can almost guarantee will start a fight rather than bring people to the table? >> i think initially with john bolton, this was not something that the president allowed because he rebuked bolton for it afterwards and said that's not really what we're talking about here. the president was so forward leaning and praising kim jong-un

as being honorable and for releasing the three american prisoners he never should have had in the first place. what mike pence did was clearly doubling down on bolton last night after he already knew this thing was going off the rails. >> let me go back to gordon on this other question which is does -- is it possible to imagine that kim jong-un has some rational sense of his country's interests southwest his own and to the extent they're identified, is there anything he really needs from us in the next 20 years of his life that we can give him if he plays ball with us? is there anything he really wants from us? >> there are three things. i think he wants sanctions relief. he doesn't want the united states to take out his missile and nuke facilities as some people in the administration threatened. also, he wants a counter balance to china. north korea, he's a korean. and the koreans and chinese have been at each other's throats literally for two millennia. the united states is a country

that has no territorial designs on korea unlike china. it would be really good for kim if he could have a good relationship with the united states because that would sort of put china back. so those three things are things i think that critically he wants at this particular moment. >> there's still a game to be played here then. thank you, andrea, gordon and joe. up next, president trump praises the nfl's new policy about the national anthem even suggesting players who take a knee shouldn't be in the country. we're going to talk to a former nfl player next. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still? this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace

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wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners when somebody disrespects our flag, to say get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired? >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump last fall lashing out at players who chose to kneel during the national anthem in protest of police brutality. trump's words set off a firestorm, of course, and the nfl reknighted that controversy yesterday outlining a new policy to address players taking a knee. that's the term for it. under the policy, players on the field are required now to stand during the national anthem or the team will face a fine. it gives players the choice to stay off the field in the locker room during the anthem without facing a penalty. this morning on "fox & friends,"

president trump praised that decision. well, i think that's good. i don't think people should be staying in locker rooms. still you have to stand proudly for the national anthem or you shouldn't be there. maybe you shouldn't be in the country. >> for more i'm joined by donte stallwor stallworth, 11-year veteran of the nfl. i don't know how you make somebody stand in respect without showing some sign of anger or contempt for being forced to do so. your thoughts about how players will react if in this does go into effect? >> i think the players and they've a lot of them have expressed their feelings through twitter. they're not going to just sit down and take this from the president. they're not going to sit down and take this from the nfl. i think the president has attacked nfl players consistently since last season. even before that when colin first decided to take a knee in

2016. the players know that the president you know, has been attacking them and will at all costs. i think the interesting part to me is that you look at this issue as the height of hypocrisy from folks on the other side of this argue who profess to love the constitution and profess to be freedom loving patriots. they'll go to the ends of the earth to defend and find all types of i couldn't have indication for the second amendment even when our babies are in cloops being murdered. when it comes to the first anticipate, they're silent. >> the first amendment's not for popular speech. we don't need to protect people say popular things about our country. it's when you say something that rubs people the wrong way is when you need the freedom. >> yeah you do. that's the founding principles of this country. you look at obviously the constitution, it's the very first amendment. obviously, the founding fathers thought that was probably the most important thing that they could institute in our country

going forward. from being -- from country's inception. but again, you know, the players know what the nfl has -- is doing here. they're cow 2000ing to the president. the president has a beef with the nfl for decades now because they wouldn't let him buy an nfl team. he's done as much as he can to attack nfl players. but again, you see sterling brown, what happened to him, the milwaukee bucks rookie where he was tased by police officers. that is precisely why nfl players have chosen to kneel. >> you know, i've been watching at nba playoffs like a lot of people. they've been fabulous. i don't know who end up on top or the two teams. earring team will make it to the favorites. i've heard nfl players don't have the leverage nba players have. one guy like lebron or steph or dwayne could say i'm not playing here and the coach is gone. potentially. they get along with their

coaches. do nfl players have the kind of leverage where they can say damn it to the openers, we want to do this and we're going to do it? >> i this i they do. the thing about the nfl versus the nba in that regard, chris, is that there's 11, 12, maybe 13 or 14 guys on an nba roster. and in an nfl roster there are 60 guys. you've got to get a lot of guys on the same page to be able to pull something off like that, but it can be done. if it does happen in the nfl, the owners will have to take account because the players african-americans make up more than two-thirds of the nfl. so they've definitely got a voice. >> let's talk about how it could have been done. the nfl players association said they were not consulted by league owners making a decision but some players expressed disagreement with the new policy. malcolm jenkins generally said in a statement what nfl owners did today was thwart the players' constitutional right to express themselves. his teammate chris long writing

this is a fear of diminished bottom line about economics. one owner the new york jets christopher johnson said he would pay any fines and would not discipline the players what do you think of that owner of the giants? what do you make of this guy? he's one of the 31 who voted for this for this thing you have to keep it in the locker room then he says but i'll pay the fine. there was such fear here it seems. >> it is. again, it goes back obviously to the president and how he's used the oval office you know, to kind of attack any of his perceived adversaries. even our own institutions the fbi, doj, it's just -- i'm more concerned honestly about how the president and this administration has been flirting with author tearnism. the president is buddies with duterte out of the philippines, he's buddies and said very complimentary things about vladimir putin. he said the same things about

kim jong-un. and he's obviously good friends with erdogan who we all know is another head of state that's an authoritarian. >> i don't know how any fan white or black or hispanic, and i know they love the nfl teams, i grew up in an nfl town, i live in one now, washington. the people white and black love theireams like you can't maj. they wear the players' names on their backs, the kids do. they get war paint and everything on in d.c. how can you root for a player carrying your heart in an nfl sunday afternoon game? how do you care about that guy as a champion at the same time know you've gagged the guy, humiliated the guy and told him he can't express his first anticipate rights? this is disquieting, dahntay. it's disquieting morally to me. i don't know how anybody can like an apart hide world where people are told what to do and not to do in that way please come back. i don't think this is the last word thanks to guys like you.

up next, trump's tribalism. he's rallying his base around the culture wars and running a distraction campaign to 'sheed himself from justice. he wants to change the topicing fromming what do we know to whose side are you on? it's so trumpian this whole thing about taking a knee is so trump. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." up c. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas

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i'm an outsider. used to be an insider, to be honest with you, okay? i know the inside and i know the outside. and that's why i'm the only one that can fix this mess, folks. >> nobody is going to be able to do the kind of things i can do. >> i think i shake things up. the country had to be shaken up. >> welcome back to "hardball." donald trump promised his base ed shake things up. you just heard him. this week he's done just that on multiple fronts. his message was essentially you're either with him or against him. the president attacked the

justice department and the fbi trying to persuade americans to believe him and not our governmental institutions. watch him here. >> i want from rod, from the fbi, from everybody, we want transparency. you know what? i think in their own way, they are obstructionists but even the democrats i believe on this issue i think they want transparency, too. >> in the culture front, also the racial front he waded back into the debate on the nfl. he told fox news that players who kneeled during the national anthem should maybe not be in this country. he's going to deport them. let's watch. >> i don't think people should be staying in lacquer rooms. you have to stand proudly for the national anthem. or you shouldn't be playing. you shouldn't be there. maybe you shouldn't be in the country. >> let's bring in tonight's roundtable ginger gibson from reuters news service and jason

johnson politics editor for the root.com and contributor. i want you starting with aisha, put this together the way trump is trashing our institutions, the by, from and for the people institutions like the fbi, our u.s. government, our democratic form of government and at the same time accusing everything of it being a deep state. at the same time taking the side of the owners against the players in this issue of taking a knee. i think it's part of one thing. what do you think, aisha? >> i think when it comes to the nfl, president trump feels like he's honed in on an issue where he can rile up his base. he feels like this really connects to them. it's a very divisive issue. if he paints it as people being unpatriotic, he feels like that's a winner for him. i think he's seeing how far can he take it. he's saying these people should be put out of the country. these people are protesting

police brutality. and racial inequality and not protesting the flag. that is what trump has focusd on. i think he feels that's a winner for him. >> ginger. >> president trump is trying to just throw all he can at the wall and hope that people listen to what they want to hear. he's talking to segments of his base by talking about nfl. he's talking to segments of his base by threatening tariffs on autos. talking to segments of his base when talking about north korea and the way that he did today. this is a hope that people choose their onus that they hear what they want to hear and they take away what he thinks they want to hear. this is an effort to sort of toss it all out there, muddy the channels and hope people walk away only with a piece that they think resonates with them. >> jason, is this fox news nation? is it basically taking the 40 some% that voted him and back

him still and say, let's remember what side we're on? don't look at evidence, don't think about black/white relations in this country, how we can get along with each other, think about how much we hate each other. let's fight. >> that's exactly what it is. this is dictator in training 101. everybody hates you. i'm the one who loves you. the media hates you and the department of justice is out to get you. those black people are out to get you. they're terrible. this is trump's campaign all along from the white nationalals he brought into his administration. i will say, a lot of these openers agree with trump. they didn't have to do this out of fear. you look at some of the comments from the owner of the panthers, the houston texans they were just and angry and has tile for their black working staff as trump is in the white house. >> why didn't he negotiate with them? there is a common way to do this right. people, express themselves

without disrupting things. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. be right back. but behr premium stain can weather any weather. behr premium semi-transparent stain and sealer, overall #1 rated, weathers it all. right now, get incredible savings on behr paints and stains. exclusively at the home depot. one picky customer shouldn't take all your time. need something printed? the business advisors at office depot can assist with exactly what your business needs to grow. get your coupon for 20% off services, technology and more at office depot and officedepot.com.

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we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. ayesha, tell me something i don't know. >> the fbi had been telling it the public and congress that nearly, there were nearly 8,000 phones that were encrypted and they couldn't access potential evidence in criminal investigations due to this. it turns out the number of phones they're dealing with that have encryptions are a fraction of that and they've been double counting or counting duplicates and so that information the fbi just released that information this week. >> okay. thank you. ginger? >> midterm to watch, amy mcgrath retired marine pilot who won the primary in kentucky this week has got internal polling that has her 15 points ahead of the republican incumbent andy barr. and new numbers, her fund

raising in her first 24 hours of being the nominee, she had 544 online donors that donated over $46,000. she's going to be one to watch. >> if women want women to vote and men want women to vote and win, we've all got to vote. >> jason. >> as you know, stacey abe raps won a huge primary to be georgia's possible next governor. >> 70 some%. >> 76 to 24%. she won 152 out of 159 keep thes that includes essentially all white counties in the northern and southern part of the state. not only is this race important for the historic level but you have presidential level candidates including joe biden slipping into atlanta and trying to find information how she did it. >> she's teaching us. ayesha ras co, ginger gibson. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." once there was an organism so small

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2018. let me underline the words i spoke in wednesday's program. until watching him on the white house lawn yesterday, i wasn't sure how far donald trump would go in destroying this country's most precious assets in order to protect himself from justice. well now we know. his willing to use the oval office, the historic pulpit of the presidency to trash the very institutions that have made this an exceptional country. a government of, by and for the people, a history of open and reasonable and generally

respectful political debate, a free press. his personal assaults on a former fbi director and his raging nonsense about a spy ring are fresh proof of his readiness to destroy any faith in government integrity in order to save some reasonable doubt among son about his own integrity. he reverts to the division that haunted this country since its origins, racism and the lingering cause of white supremacy. yes, telling the football players we watch on sunday to behave as they are told is something we expect of apartheid regime, not a democratic one. our rights to free speech fought for all this country's life is not to defend popular speech but what many even a majority of the country doesn't want to hear. you don't need right foz say what is popular. it's been clear from his entrance into the political arena that trump is willing to state what he knows is not the truth in order to divide this country. he did that early on with his claim that barack obama was a

legal immigrant ineligible to be listed among our presidents and up through today he badgers our institutions of press freedom and government while dredging up the worst of our history in the order to advance himself. if you believe that the ends, his political survival, justifies such means -- tonight on "all in." >> when they look at the documents, i think people are going to see a lot of bad things happen. >> the president's conspiracy theory goes boom. >> there is no evidence to support any allegation that the fbi or any intelligence agency placed a spy in the trump campaign. >> and tonight's new formal word from the mueller team that the investigation into donald trump and his campaign is much larger than anyone thought. then -- >> i actually have communicated with assange. >> new evidence that trump associate roger stone was