then move on to the larger objective. >> richard, thank you very much. that's nbc's richard engel from jerusalem. you can see the full report tonight when the special series on assignment with richard engel continues at 9:00 p.m. eastern time right here on msnbc. that wraps up this hour. i'm david gura. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the expression used to go like this. when america sneezes, the world catches a cold. a planned summit with north korea that even our closest allies are left out of the loop and scrambling to keep up with trump's shifting pronouncements. one senior white house official telling me today that the decision to pull out of the summit was kept close, explaining we had to be sure we had the exact decision before we could notify everyone so it

didn't leak. the source added, it's not like donald trump hadn't foreshadowed the possibility. fair enough, but it's unclear exactly what the president was trying to foreshadow in these remarks this morning. >> mr. president, is the summit still off? >> we're going to see what happens. we're talking to them now. it was a very nice statement they put out. we'll see what happens. >> -- >> no, no, we'll see what happens. it could even be the 12th. we're talking to them now. they very much want to do it. we'd like to do it. we're going see what happens. >> -- >> i don't know anything about it. >> -- >> john, everybody plays games. you know that. you know that better than anybody. >> and new reporting in the washington post suggests that

any decision on north korea was borne more out of trump's concern for his own ego than carefully considered policy. the president told advisors he was concerned kim wan maneuvering to back out of the summit and make americans look like desperate suitors. trump called it off first. tony schwarz who coauthored the deal with donald trump, he scorched the summit to save his ego. trump has a morbid fear of being humiliated and shamed, schwarz said. this is showing who is the biggest and the strongest so he is exquisitely sensitive to the possibility that he would end up looking weak and small. there is nothing more unacceptable to donald trump than that. but in reality, the stakes are much higher than a potential personal embarrassment for the president. axios writing, the united states was closer to war with north korea last summer than is widely known. sources close to the white house tell us, and now that same dangerous uncertainty is back. let's get trite to our reporters

and guests. nbc's keir simmons joins us from st. petersburg where he's covering a topic at the world economic forum. also associate press reporter jill colvin with us at the table. "the new york times" op-ed columnist. mike murphy, who advised bush, mccain and romney. good old days. heather mcghee, an advisor to john edwards, now president of the advocacy group d.mos action. all for us nbc analysts and contributors. jill, let me start with you. what is the latest from the white house? i had heard that some of the backlash about how our closest allies didn't know and members of congress who are inclined to support this president on foreign policy were left out of the loop, that the reason for that was that they needed it to be final and they didn't want it to leak. what are you hearing today about where things stand? >> reporter: that is definitely becoming an increasing concern for this white house, they're trying to tamp down on it.

my colleagues are reporting out today really the president doesn't see this as the end of the road. the president doesn't see the summit now as being -- something that is never going to happen. they are still very much holding out hope that this is something that could take place, even suggesting that maybe that the june 12th date is possibly still on, even though logistically that seems like an impossibility. but really painting this as just another step in the president's negotiation with the north koreans to try to gain an upper hand here. >> jill, i want to ask you about that. we played that sound at the top, and the president said, quote, it could be the 12th. are logistical steps still being taken for that summit to happen? obviously large advance crews have been there. they'd have to go back. is that work ongoing or has that all been halted? >> at this point there is supposed to be a group of advanced staffers and other folks including the deputy chief of staff joe hagen supposed to

be going there next week. it is unclear whether that trip is still planned. they actually haven't been clear about whether that's going to happen or not. but, look, senior administration official briefing reporters yesterday described the number of days between now and june 12th as i think he said it was ten minutes. it's a very short period of time. there are very intense, strategic negotiations that need to go on not just from the logistical side where you need to figure out who is going to be where, the security situation here, which is very, very concerning for both sides. but also there is so much work that needs to go on in terms of exactly what the deal is going to be, what are they going to agree to. and you remember, you know, hagen and his team were in singapore last week and the fact is that the north koreans stood them up. that was supposed to be a time when they sat down and they worked out a lot of those issues. if those conversations aren't taking place, if the u.s. and north korea aren't having those discussions right now, it's very hard to imagine june 12th is very, very right around the corner. >> keir simmons, we have been talking about the logistics because that's where this story

has taken us, to all the things that broke down in the normal sort of consultation process and forming allies and people who can cover your back when something like this falls apart. let's get right to what you cover, the substance. you know, you watch this president from overseas. and if you look at just the recent foreign policy events, pulling out of the iran deal, this backing out of the summit with north korea -- >> yeah. >> pulling out of the paris climate accord. what does the picture of america under president trump start to look like? >> well, i have to tell you, nicolle, i witnessed a pretty damning demonstration of the world on president trump because just visually, you had president putin, the leader of russia -- here in russia of all places, the leader of japan, leader of france, deputy premiere of china and leader of imf all on the stage together. one thing, nicolle, i was there

as the news filtered through that president trump had now said the north korean summit was back on. none of those leaders -- none of them -- appeared to know that that was going to be a possibility, not two of america's closest allies, leader of japan, leader of france. the deputy premiere of china was least surprised, china least surprised by it. as you would expect, they were all pretty much unified in saying that they hope the summit did go ahead because frankly any sane person would want to try and see moves towards peace in north korea. but, you know, nicolle, on so many other subjects as you mention, what we saw was them being unified in criticism without naming president trump. on iran, on climate change, on trade. again and again, there was this criticism. even from president putin who, as we know, is reluctant always to criticize president trump in public, and he didn't directly criticize him, but joined the criticism. for example, suggesting that the

rules of the world are being ripped up unfairly. president putin suggesting that intimating that's president trump's fault. >> you know, keir, we have conversations around this table every day about the object lit ration of norms in this country whether it's at the justice department or the fbi or the intelligence community. but we don't talk enough about what you see, and that's the object lit ration of norms in terms of our diplomatic relations with adversaries. even russia finds this administration's conduct unsettling in terms of knowing where each side stands. >> yeah. what i saw today was the leader of russia, president putin and one of the leaders of china together calling for trade rules around the world to be followed, for normal trade practice, if you like, around the world. and one of the worrying things about that, nicolle, is you're hearing from two people who don't -- who run -- i think if you like, you can at least call

russia a quasi-democracy, china clearly is not a democracy. so there is that concern. in terms of president trump, for example, just to give you an example, he was asked about the plane shot down over ukraine. we had reports in the last 24 hours that it was, according to the independent inquiry, a russian missile that was responsible for that. and president putin just denied it, just flatly denied it. that is -- well, it's a lie honestly. and that is the person who at the same time is uniting world leaders, who is picturing himself -- presenting himself as standing up for the world in a way the world should be run. and that gives you a sense of the deficit. i just want to say one thing. we don't know how things are going to play out in north korea. the trump strategy may well work. i don't think even those leaders on that stage know the answer to that, hence their kind of diplomatic hopes expressed that there will be progress there. but on many, many other issues, the world seems to be moving

forward without america. >> i've got two follow-ups for you, keir. one, you used this -- another thing we've been talking about all week, that president putin was sort of putting something out there based on a lie. we spent the week talking about a conspiracy theory that the president of this country has about the fbi's conduct based on a lie, that there was some mole planted in his campaign. i want you to pick up on the idea these two operate in some of the same ways. i want to read you -- give you a two for. i know it's late there. being reported here that critics said, trump's hasty jump into a poorly thought out summit process has left the united states in a weakened position and trump's personal daliance with kimmel vindicatesed the stature of kim on a world stage. i want to land there and ask if that is president impression the world leaders have if he wittingly or unwittingly

elevated kim jong-un to places he's never been before. >> thank you for throwing me that one. >> you can handle it. >> you know, i really think on north korea that we've just got to keep in mind this is a conversation you and i have been having over many, many months, particularly towards the end of last year. i think we have to remember how very dangerous it appeared to be getting, how dangerous the conflict in north korea is. now, you had president putin effectively siding with kim jong-un at this conference here today, suggesting that kim jong-un had done everything needed. and again, as i mentioned, seeming to criticize president trump, which is unusual. so, there is a strange -- there are strange bed fellows for you, both president putin and president trump moving forward with north korea and perhaps a little side with the north korean leader in recent months. however, i do think that it's worth -- what you saw with all of these leaders -- and

remember, they're from very different countries. you have the leader of japan, one of the leaders of china on the same stage. you saw them all saying, we do want to try and see diplomacy work on north korea and we know the reason for that. it's because the alternative is terrifying. so, i think it is that sense, i guess, we need to give president trump a little bit of generosity in terms of how we assess how this is being tackled, being played. we just don't know how this is going to end. >> pick up on that threat. we have keir's reporting from points abroad. we have jill's exentitcellent reporting from the white house how this became consumed with some of the chaos and confusion around process. take us back to the substance. do you think the president is sufficiently steeped in the substance of what is in the region's national security interest, this country's national security interest to pull this off in the end? >> no. you know, when i grew up, i grew

up in a bipolar world. now in middle age, i live in a bipolar presidency. with north korea you might say we're talking about two bipolar situations. in the case of north korea they run hot and they run cold, but i will say at least in north korea they do it for strategic reasons. there is a method to north korea's madness of escalating a situation and then extracting concessions. in the case of the president, it seems to be drichlt ven entirel temperament and vanity and ego. that's what's so potentially dangerous. back to your original question, it strikes me instead of a coolly rational analysis of what the united states could offer north korea versus what's the most that they could possibly concede, what we had was a president who suddenly was watching fox news and hearing the word that he could be offered a nobel peace prize and

succumbing to that temptation, and then suddenly being faced with the opposite perspective or the opposite possibility of being humiliated and unmanned, if you will, by kim jong-un. so, we're not really dealing with an analysis of the situation. we're dealing with a question -- >> at a policy level. >> what is the outcome likelyest to flatter trump's vanity at any particular moment in time. >> i guess what we're seeing now, heather, is this conflation of self with state. i mean, where is the united states' interest in any of these conversations? you don't hear it from any of his surrogates. we hear about donald trump's interests. what was telegraphed by the president, what leaked out almost immediately was this idea he saw this as an opportunity to win a nobel peace prize, that he was telling friends and allies that republicans could run on the denuclearization of the korean peninsula and hold the house and the senate on that victory. he made the stakes so abundantly clear to kim jong-un that they were do or die for him, that it

seems like he gave up all of america's leverage out of the gate. >> that is exactly right. i mean, his program of america first has meant america alone, and most importantly, it hasn't returned any dividends to the country. whether it's getting tough on china and then backing out, whether it's obviously the fact that we are now sacrificing not just a potential to transform our economy in a great way, but also the well-being of the next generation by pulling out on climate change. on issue after issue, he has not been able to say that america first, other than being a psychic boost to say, you know, we are still the best in the world, actually is going to redound to any benefits to the american people. the fear of this man being anywhere near the white house in 2016 was exactly this, that someone's ego would be close to putting millions of lives at stake. and thankfully, this, you know, last crazy week starting with john bolton saying something

that he never should have, and then oddly mike pence who is supposed to be sort of the serious states man in the room doubling down on that on fox news, thankfully hasn't immediately created any loss of life, but i think a lot of americans are scared. they don't trust him to have his finger anywhere near the button. >> you didn't make dissimilar points to the ones just made by heather during the campaign about sort of the fundamental lack of fitness for this aspect of the job, the commander in chief profile. >> yeah, it is a hard complicated job. and figuring out north korea is particularly hard and complicated because you have big powers that want different things. the north koreans are actually the easiest part of the equation because they just want to survive. the regime wants to survive and they get to do that, they want economic relief. i met a high-level defector last week. his point of view is this is all a con job. kim internally has to show some creeping progress toward their eternal strategy, which is misbehave, then be paid off to

stop misbehaving. the problem is because i don't think donald trump knows anything more than anything than he does. he won't take any expert advice. instead he's reacting emotionally. he's a guy who wants to dominate any situation. the truth is from my point of view, anyway, kim could write the new edition of art of the deal because just having an american president agree to a bilateral summit without giving up anything, we've had 30 years of bipartisan policy to try to inch him along, six-party talks, everything else. he already won. and then he got us to back off on a military exercise that had been normalized. now a couple of adjectives thrown around in public diplomacy, and we're throwing a fit. so, i do think from the break-up letter that will have historians laughing for 30 years, he's dying for a summit. he wants the photo op. he wants the politics. eventually i think he'll get one because for domestic reasons north korea wants one to inch towards economic relief. >> jill, let me give you a quick last word. what the white house might say

in response to this is they did secure the release of three americans who were detained in north korea. but at this moment, is that an accurate assessment of the accomplishments in their dealings with north korea? >> i mean, that is something that they accomplished here. and i think that they deserve credit, that is something that happened. also, you know, you have -- i think it was yesterday, the day before, where the north koreans did shutdown that nuclear facility. they had journalists there, of course, broke their promise of having independent experts there to verify their full capabilities have been destroyed. there have been moments of progress there. and this story is definitely not done yet. >> jill colvin and keir simmons, we're so grateful to both of you for your reporting. we're happy to have it. when we come back, donald trump spy fantasy. it's only real in his head but that didn't stop the white house from ordering the department of justice to brief congress on some of the nation's most sensitive secrets and the identity of a confidential informant. we'll do a damage assessment here. also ahead, harvey weinstein in handcuffs in court, and facing criminal charges on two

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this week we all got a chance to track the life cycle of a conspiracy theory. it started with donald trump making one up about fbi spies implanted in his campaign. it exploded to the point where the justice department had to brief lawmakers about what actually happened. and finally today, after those

classified meetings where the only public statements we've heard have shot down the original allegation, the conspiracy theory seems to have been largely debunked for everyone but donald trump and his allies. and instead of backing off in the face of cold hard facts, donald trump has expanded upon his original tall tale. count the number of times he says the word spy in this morning's tweets. quote, the democrats are now alluding to the concept that having an informant placed in an opposing party's campaign is different than having a spy. as a illegal as that may be. what about an informant who was paid a fortune and sets up way earlier than the russia hoax? can anyone even imagine having spies placed in a competing campaign by the people and party in absolute power? i'm not reading any more of this. you know what, brett stevens, this is -- and even by reading it, these are bold-faced lies and his audacity and sort of

fantasies expand, i just wonder what role you think the truth plays in any of this for them. >> you know, speaking about north korea just a minute ago, i said what is really at work is a kind of neurosis. here i will say what is at work is a strategy. because donald trump is setting out to basically throw enough mud at the investigation to cast a kind of -- mixing metaphors -- a cloud, sorry, a cloud in people's minds over, well, you know, there is something, there is something wrong with the investigation. this was started on false pretenses. there is a kind of deep state loathing for the president, the mueller investigation should never have begun, and anything that it turns up will therefore be, will therefore be colored by questions about its origins. and what's so particularly frightening is the president seems completely incurious about the possibility that russia was making attempts to infiltrate his campaign in exactly the same way that they had infiltrated

campaigns in other countries where certain politicians espoused pro-russian views. you know, when the former director of national intelligence james clapper said on tv somewhere, he said the president should have -- a candidate should have welcomed the possibility that the fbi was keeping tabs on this. >> joyce vance is joining the conversation, former u.s. attorney, msnbc contributor. i read this in the morning between the president's tweets and my coffee. i start the day at 11:00 on a scale of one to ten. shouldn't the -- even now, i feel like he could wake up tomorrow and say, you know what, i want to get to the bottom of what russia did because i want to protect this country. why is that never the advice he's given? why is that never anything that -- do you think he will ever say, i want to protect america from russia entering fearing in our democracy? >> i think that used to be the mystery about his behavior, why he didn't -- why he had no curiosity about russia's efforts

to infiltrate his campaign. but now it's really the linchpin piece of evidence where, you know, a year and a half in and at this point the fact that the president has shown no interest at getting to the bottom of russian efforts to influence his campaign, russian efforts to have an impact on the american vote really speaks for itself. >> but, joyce, i guess what i'm asking is are we participating in something that we're going to look back and deeply regret? because the tweets started, you know, i'm innocent of collusion and people around him said he could barely collude with this press office. then they went to, well, a president can't obstruct justice because they're allowed to fire whoever they want. now the lies are almost like things out of fairytales. there is a made-up spy implanted, which i think of teeth and other things when i think of the word implanted, into his campaign. the people who are being investigated were suspicious enough that a fisa court, you know better than me, the highest threshold for proof said they

are trouble,ing, let's keep an eye on them. where are we heading by continuing to cover what is almost beyond lies, fairytales, fantasies, per versions of his own original story? >> he is remarkably good at spin. where we are in this country is he has us so thoroughly down in the weeds that we can't see the trees, let alone the forest. we can't see this concept that the president is saying, in essence, that the fbi should not investigate when there is good intelligence that says that the russians are trying to influence outcomes in our country. and you're right it's a dangerous path for us to go down. and it's not a political issue. this is the sort of moment where we need to all step back and put aside our personal political believes and think about our country, not our party. think about truth as opposed to lies. you know, if there had been any truth to this so-called spygate story, then yesterday after there is this series of meetings that involved d.o.j. briefings,

we would have seen republicans emerge and say, aha, the president was onto something. but we saw absolute crickets after those meetings and that should tell us that the president here is yet again lying about what's going on. that's the danger. >> he's lying. and joyce is right, mike. they would have shown up on sean hannity. they would have been booked in packs of three, shoulder to shoulder shots from the capital saying, aha, we got it, the smoking gun. >> very troubling. >> there is nothing. >> there is nothing. the whole thing was a card trick and a bad one. the reason the president won't defend the national interest or the idea the russians were undermining our democracy is he thinks his interest is the national interest. he is that i believe self-obsessed. if it's good for him it's good for america. if it's attacking him, it's attacking american. he cannot see foreign enemies, he only sees trump enemies. he is the first president in modern history and i'll include nixon in this or clinton, who is immune from shame. shame used to be the weapon that could hold the top in line.

it means nothing to him. the one thing i'll say, though, he is not being that successful. he has the office, but there is only one mark to market event in politics. you know this, election day. and his numbers are bad, among the worst ever. he's heading toward what could be a very traumatic election day for the republican party institutionally. we will see what the day after the election looks like, but he is not a political success. >> i want to stay here. i've got something i want to share -- i am so sick of people coming even on this show and telling me that his base isn't going anywhere, his numbers are going up. he barely won. i mean, it was an electoral victory, but -- >> he has a rasputin trick going. he's going to lose by 4 million votes, it's over the demography. >> he still lost by millions of votes. i'm not relitigating the outcome. it's not like he has this buffer that has him immune from anything to show he's full of it. >> basically he looks --

>> i feel better for the first time. >> i don't have a time machine but it's the fact. >> i'm buying it. let me put up the list of all the conspiracy theories of yester year. jfk w ted cruz was involved in jfk's assassination. obama wasn't born in the u.s. thousands celebrated 9/11 on the rooftops. he's questioning the legitimacy of the access hollywood tapes since the first moment he heard it. >> so, i think this is beyond lies. it's propaganda, right? and i do think it's strategic. i think of all that list, you could have done many more, the ones that are closest to the truth and his vulnerabilities are the ones where he projects in a very simple way by saying that, in fact, his opponents are the ones who have done exactly what he does, right? creating an entire structure during his campaign around the

criminally at this and the rigging of the election that is happening by the democrats, when we all know that many people, at least many people in his campaign and his family, if not he, knew there were russians who were trying to give them information to do exactly that. that's misinformation. >> they sat in the meeting. >> they sat in the meeting. they wanted the meeting. when we ask why is he so uncurious, if someone is offering him something to help him win, his son, his son-in-law, his family members, his top campaign aides said rkt yeah, bring it on. >> i love it. >> national interest security be damned. that's why he's uncurious whether russia meddled in the election because we see what their campaign's disposition was to exactly that promise. >> all right. coming up, harvey weinstein, the man many view as the first domino to fall in the me too movement, arrested on rape charges today. a day one of his victims said she didn't believe would ever

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are you sorry, harvey? harvey? >> mr. weinstein? >> harvey, have you got anything to say? the charge of rape, did you rape those women? >> harvey weinstein turned himself in to police in lower manhattan and appeared in court on charges that he raped one woman and forced another to perform oral sex. "the new york times" describing it as a watershed moment in a months long sex crimes investigation and in the me too movement. the times adding, with camera shutters clicking and reporters asking questions, this is a scene where he presided for decades. but after decades of harnessing his wealth and his influence in the movie industry to buy or coerce silence from women and after withstanding an investigation into groping

allegations three years ago, mr. weinstein's reign ended behind bars in a police holding cell on friday morning. nbc's rehema ellis was at the court when weinstein was charged and joins us now and with us on set, msnbc legal correspondent and host of the beat ari melber has joined the table. rehema, if you can bring us up to speed on a day that has been this historic and monumental event not just for weinstein's victims and accusers, but for all of the women who have been freed, i guess is probably not the right word, but who have been inspired to speak out because of these women going public with their accusations against harvey weinstein. >> reporter: for sure, nicolle. it has been an extraordinary day for some of the reasons that you just pointed out, a man who was known for walking the red carpet. and then we saw him in a perp walk with his hands in handcuffs behind his back. tonight he is out on $1 million cash bail after he voluntarily

surrendered to authorities early this morning at a precinct house, not half a mile from here. then he was brought here to this courthouse in manhattan in handcuffs, and he stood before the court to face felony charges, two rape counts and one criminal sexual act in what's called the first degree from two separate cases involving women. one that happened in 2004, another happened in 2013. he left this courtroom not in handcuffs, but he was given an opportunity to walk away, surrendering his passport and he has an ankle bracelet on so that they can monitor his movements. he will be able to go to new york to his home in connecticut. but anything else out of those boundaries, he's going to have to get permission from authorities. and when his attorney came out, i asked a question and that is, after he said he's going to vigorously defend harvey weinstein who denies that there was any nonconsensual sex, and i asked him what does he say to all of those women who accuse

him of bad behavior in connection with this case? here's what his attorney had to say. >> my job is not to defend behavior. my job is to defend something that is criminal behavior. bad behavior, mr. weinstein did not invent the casting couch in hollywood. and to the extent that there is bad behavior in that industry, that is not what this is about. bad behavior is not on trial in this case. >> reporter: there are other possible charges against harvey weinstein because of special grand jury is looking into charges. and his attorney says he's going to decide next week whether harvey weinstein will testify before that grand jury. nicolle? >> rehema ellis, thank you so much for joining us. ari, these are -- this feels like the tip of the iceberg in terms of the legal exposure that harvey weinstein has in the face of, what is it, more than 90 women who have accused him. >> we're looking at an individual there in that perp

walk who was once the king of hollywood, close to every major media mogul business person, political leaders, and who -- because we talk politics on this show -- was close to the clintons, who could very credibly spend the rest of his life in prison and die in prison depending on how the trial goes. these charges, these three very serious felony charges are based on the accounts of two women, as you mention. 95 women have already publicly come forward. so, the allegation and legally that's what we call it, a series of allegations, but the allegation is not of someone who when you see some of the pictures here. the allegation is not of someone who had an incident or second incident or an alleged misunderstanding. the allegation is of someone who operated as a serial rapist with kind of a criminal enterprise around him, and a series of protecters and people complicit in this. and i would mention when we think about this again with the trump administration, all the talk about alleged immigrant criminals or black criminals in the cities and all these things

we hear about, this was a very powerful white man who was alleged to be a criminal in our midst at the highest levels of american life. >> a predator. you're not going anywhere. i have so many questions for you. when we come back, powerful reaction today from a woman who has become the face of the me too movement in hollywood and the first to come forward and accuse harvey weinstein of rape.

somehow we always leave packing to the last minute. guys, i have a couple of things to wash. we got this. even on quick cycle, tide pods cleans great. 10x the cleaning power, even in the quick cycle. it's got to be tide. that was the wrong tape, but actress rose mcgowan spoke out today with our own stephanie ruhle. we'll try to turn some of that around. here it is. >> he should go to jail forever. he stole so many lives. he stole, he ate, he killed, he -- i mean, he destroyed not just careers, but like the nights that i've been on the floor crying while he gets

oscars, you know. and the other -- these women, we're humans. we were taken. our lives were stolen. >> if he stole your lives, do you get it back today? >> i think today is a dam good start. >> your message to harvey? >> no more tears, not because of you. not any more. today, today we rejoice. tomorrow will be hard again, but today we can have a moment for all of us -- this is for all of us who have been told we are nothing. this is for all of us because we are something, and we can be free. it's a beautiful thing. >> she leaves me speechless, ari, but can you just talk about the structural deficiencies of a justice system that leaves 95 women vulnerable prey to an

animal like harvey weinstein? >> well, we are in new york state where the top law enforcement official in this state, a man roughly a contemporary in age of harvey weinstein, the attorney general eric schneiderman, was ousted when it was credibly reported and alleged that he had domestic abuse violations. if you are a woman in the system and you look at it, and you think that being victimized once is bad enough, but reporting will lead to professional, personal, public or legal ramifications that are worse, then of course you're stuck in a terrible harrowing bind which is what we hear when we report on this and we listen to these stories. so, that is possibly starting to change, which is significant, but look what it took. it took "the new york times" doing an incredible investigative piece. it took someone who in harvey weinstein, although had a lot of power, became a figure because of his fame. maybe that eventually in the end turned on him. how many women have stories for us that we've reported on all over the country where the

person who allegedly hurt them is not famous and does not make for an interesting story so we don't get to this point. having said that, i think what ms. mcgowan and others are saying is important because things can change fast and they don't necessarily have to go backwards. so, there is a different attorney general in this state. there are different standards taking hold how prosecutors look at this and in the cosby case, to give one legal example, more women's testimony was allowed in and that can change the entire equation from a quote, he said she said, which is a limited frame to begin with, you know what i mean, to he said they said. that can make a big difference to a jury. if this is a pattern, maybe we should do something about it. >> joyce vance, can you jump in on whether there need to be changes to the law or whether there need to be changes to the practices? and i guess by that i mean why is it always on the victims to carry the burden of banding together with 95 other people who allege the same atrocity until someone listens? are there problems with the laws

or are there still problems with the culture? >> you know, ari points out the biggest issue that victims, usually women, face in these cases and that's getting the attention of law enforcement and getting the cases prosecuted. these aren't easy cases and that's not a flaw in the law. that's just a result of the fact that prosecutors have to believe they can prove these crimes beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction from a jury. no one wants to put victims through the heartache of a trial that ends up in a not guilty verdict. and so as in other cases, the evidence is looked at. and when it's two peopleal loan in a ro -- people alone in a room, there are tough cases to be proved. there is power in women coming forward like cosby where additional evidence led to a conviction. the law permits prosecutors to introduce e6ds introduce evidence of what's typically called other bad acts. you might have cases where the victims are out of the statute of limitations or for whatever

reason, the crime against them can't be charged, but prosecutors can use their testimony and juries can hear from eight, nine, ten women to show that the defendant had a similar way of acting, that he had a similar motive, that he used the same kind of language or the same places to convict as crimes. then prosecutors can get those cases across the finishing line. so what's important here is that there be leaders who push these cases forward. >> heather, do you see a nexus between the legal developments in what's happening in our politics with women rising up? >> absolutely. the real hero in this story is the me too movement. you're exactly right that when it's just he said she said, it's a problem. but what happened was it was sort of he said, american women said. and that changed the calculus. you saw all those faces of 95 women who were able to finally say, it won't be my career

versus harvey weinstein. it will be me and my sisters. and then in industry after industry that has fallen and that's because this is not an individual issue. this is not about one bad guy, although this is a very terrible guy. it's about a structural power dynamic that has been a part of our society for so long. we've seen rapid change on these issues in just the past couple of generations. but this is why social movements are necessary, to tip the balance of power so that no one person is alone fighting something which is a structural issue. >> all right. we know you have to go get ready for your show. you have a big show tonight. tell us about t. >> we're going to be covering this with megan tooey who helped break the story, won a pulitzer. it will be interesting to get her views on this. and broadening beyond that we have andre, with hal reins for a special fall back friday, so a little bit of everything. >> i never miss it. i'm not going to miss it tonight. we have to sneak in a break. we'll be right back.

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a stunning new report in the "washington post" reveals the details of a meeting that took place just days after donald trump took office. it may have helped set the tone for his entire presidency. the post reporting today quote the night before trump delivered his first speech to congress in february 2017, he huddled with senior adviser jared kushner and steven millner the oval office to talk immigration. the president reluctantly agreed

with suggestions that he strike a gentler tone on immigration in the speech. trump reminded them that the crowds loved his rhetoric on immigration on the campaign trial. acting while he w a he said the crowds would roar when the criminals were thrown out of the country as he did had he he highlighted crimes committed by illegal immigrants at his rally. miller and kushner laughed. >> it's not surprising. this is president -- >> appalling. >> -- what made his mark coming down that escalator and making remarks that were similar. but it's another reminder why he is utterly unfit to be the president of the united states. something like 17% of americans are foreign born. my mother was a refugee to this -- came as a refugee. my father was born in mexico.

as a matter of statistical fact, immigrants, including illegal immigrants, commit violent crimes at a much lower rate than native-born americans. but it goes to the heart of his democrat gojic appeal -- demogoguic appeal. people ought to spend time going back to a 1980 debate between george h.w. bush and ron reagan and listening to the way they spoke about mexican or latin american immigrants compared to what we have today to trace the decline in the moral stature of the republican party. >> mike? >> i -- oh. >> it's frustrating. he does not understand nor das he care to understand that he is not just head of government n. our system he is head of state,

which means he has to uphold the values of our state. instandard would have this high school rendition of a tony soprano monologue. it is going to do damage. >> it also explains why they don't fire leakers. that's flagrant racism in the oval office. and they are laughing about it with his social and his senior adviser. >> all of my life there has been a very clear formula, which is divide and conquer, stoke fear of minorities. it used to be more african-americans and now it's more immigrants. link undeserving minority to government and then say that government needs to be squashed and shrunk because it either coddles or somehow is giving more money to people of color. that's actually the formula behind everything that trump is doing right now. it's not just about race baiting. it's also about an economic

agenda. >> we are going to pick this up. i think we are going to have this conversation every day for the entire trump presidency. we have to sneak in our last break. we'll be right back. until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here.

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i always wish i had more time with these friend. my thanks to you. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. i'm depressed about my warriors. >> me too. i don't like it either. america, outside of houston and boston does not want where we are going. >> i'm not happy. one more thing to drink over. >> here's what we need. game sevens. i would like to watch basketball on sunday night and monday night. >> okay. >> go cavs, go warriors. thank you nicole. >> i'm for that. >> if it is a friday, i spy some russia headlines. tonight, reality check on the russia investigation. are the president's laws of distraction really working for him? >> the president has asked for full and complete transparency. that's what we expect to get. >> plus, the w