he or she will have to look him in the eye and take him down face to face, matching him point for point, hopefully with the added weapon of the truth. and haas' "hardbalthat's "hardb. thanks for joining me see you tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. see you then. >> hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. there is a scandal flourishing in the white house and the president and his allies seem to be getting away with it for now. we're not talking about bob mueller's investigation into potential collusion with russia or the president's increasingly brazen attempts to interfere with and undermine that investigation. we're not even talking about the sex scandal with the porn star and all the collateral damage from that raid on the home and offices of his personal attorney and lawyer michael cohen. each one of those stories in any normal administration would be a calamity of historic proportions, but in the era of trump, to focus on any one of them in isolation would mean

missing the forest for the trees. as crystallized in the atlantic, quote, the myriad trump scandals obscure the fact that they're all elements of one massive tell of corruption, the corruption of the american government by the president and his associates who are using their official power for personal and financial gain. and their attempts to shield that corruption from political consequence, public scrutiny, or legal accountability. here are some of the country's top national security officials from past democratic and republican administrations on the topic. >> i think what we're seeing here is the president has just taken his all-out assault on the rule of law to a new level. >> i am really concerned that the depth of the partisan ranker and animus in washington is like i've never seen before. >> the thing i am most concerned about, though, is this obliteration of norms. is this erosion of norms and many democratic principles that we've seen. >> i think that's actually very

disturbing assault on the independence of the department of justice. and i think when the president -- this president or any president tries to use the department of justice as kind of a private investigatory body, that's not good for the country. >> i think that's not just norm busting. that actually may be in violation of the statute that requires us to keep congress, not one party in congress, fully and currently informed. >> there is a part of me that, you know, i have been very angry at donald trump for the things he said and things he did. i am now moving into the realm of deep worry and concern that our country needs strong leadership now. >> joining our panel today jim mussina, former white house deputy chief of staff. he also ran president obama's reelection campaign. jeremy peters, "the new york times" political reporter. elise jordan, former aide in the george w. bush white house and state department and rick steng l former under secretary of

state former diplomacy and former managing editor for time magazine. let me start with you and ask you, having worked -- actually all three of us having worked at the highest levels of a west wing to see the kinds of people that used to be really granted a lot of deference when they walked into the west wing for a meeting with the president sounds alarms. to see people like michael hayden, people who had famously low profiles in government, now can't sound the alarms loudly enough about what they're seeing from this president. >> i remember going home from the west wing and thinking to myself, i sleep better because of people like lisa monaco, john brennan, every single day protecting the country, didn't matter whether it was george bush, barack obama, these people were patriots trying to do a good job. you look at the incredible attacks on all the branches, judiciary, intelligence services, if barack obama had done any of that, barack obama criticized the fbi once. fox news would shutdown for the riots that would have occurred

at their studios, right? and donald trump is doing every single day and where are the patriots, people standing up and saying, no? >> well, we showed some of them, elise. it is a good point. if the shoe were on the other foot, there would certainly be -- i don't know if there would be riots, but there would certainly be condemnation, if any other politician tried to weapon ize the justice department, to attack or attack their own enemies. >> i guess what this administration has impressed upon me is how over reliant we were -- we are on norms. and the respecting of norms that aren't necessarily enshrined in law, but every administration endeavors to uphold the standards that have allegation been followed, you know, not having a hotel named after you in the city, in the capital of the nation, that you encourage foreign leaders to host events

and their diplomats at. little things like that. not using the oval office to promote your daughter's fashion line, things that we really -- >> or your senior advisors. >> your senior advisors, exactly. things that are definitely questionable, but maybe they might not actually be illegal, but still it is incredibly unseemly and corrupt. >> on the world stage, certainly george w. bush brought a lot of criticism for his war in iraq in particular, other counterterrorism policies. president obama less so, but still plenty of criticism of some of his foreign policy. but those were policy disputes. >> yeah. >> there was an understanding among our allies of who we were as a country, that we respected the rule of law, that we adhered to these traditions and norms. with this president who is i think both ignorant of them and disdainful of them, what's the world make of america right now? >> so, one of the ideas of american exceptionalism was this idea that we were different in

the sense that people went into government not to pad their own checkbook, but for disinterested reasons of patriotism and service. and what this -- what his erosion of norms has done is he's turned the american government into like a third world government where people go into government to enrich themselves, to enrich their families, and that's how trump sees it. trump has no understanding of the norms of the rule of law. he sees this as another business, like a kind of crime family that they see in other places around the world, and this has eroded this idea that america is different. we used to go around and say, like, you need to work on your human rights. you need to, you know, you need to do rule of law. and now we have no credibility to say that any more. >> i want to play for you -- you have your ear to the ground on what's happening on the right at the grassroots level. i want to play for you something jeff flake said and see if you

think he speaks for anyone in the republican grassroots. >> our presidency has been debased by a figure who seemingly has a bottomless appetite for destruction and division, and only a passing familiarity with how the constitution works. and our article 1 branch of government, the kocongress, thas me, is utterly supine in the face of the moral vandalism that flows from the white house daily. this disease of our pallity is far too serious not to be recognized for what it is. the damage it threatens to do to our vital organs is far too great for us to carry on as if all is well. all is not well. well, simply put, we may have hit bottom. >> so, i wept when i saw that. he spoke to my battered political soul. but there are few enough people like me that donald trump won anyway. >> that is exactly right and

there are almost no people in congress who will speak up to the extent that jeff flake has. i might also point out that he's retiring and he was giving that speech at harvard, not in his home state of arizona where donald trump remains quite popular. so, i think that -- when you go out into the country and talk to people about what has trump done, the people who support him -- and by the way, his numbers are rising. we shouldn't lose sight of that. they don't care about russia. they don't care about the tweeting. they don't care about his denigratetion of his political enemies. they think it's a big deem al w make such a big deal of it. they see all the noise around trump to be almost an insult to them personally. like an attack on them. how stupid can you be to support that guy? and that's a really powerful motivator going into the 2018 midterms. it's also something the republicans plan on using to

their benefit by reminding voters that, look, these democrats and these never trumpers, they think you're stupid. they hate you. so you have to turnout and make sure that they don't effectively nullify your vote, your victory in putting donald trump in the white house. >> at some point, this election of '18 is going to be about base turnout. right now democrats have what, elise, 10 point, 12 point on enthusiasm which is a very big deal. if you're going to rally your base, there is nothing better to rally your base to your point than whacking away at washington. places where i live in montana, that message works, saying, look, you might like those people or not like them. but washington has been screwing you for a very long time. my friends in my ranching community who are republican say i don't care about any of that. i just want trump to stick it to all those guys. they like -- >> how do democrats run against that? how do you defend norms? there are plenty of people in these agencies director hayden are defending who are not part of a deep state liberal conspiracy. they're speaking up for plenty

of republicans in the country. fbi agents in montana, in arizona. where is the disconnect? >> there is a stupid debate going on if my party that makes me want to scream. you talk about corruption or talk about other issues. we as democrats have to walk and chew come at the same time. you have to point out corruption and how the system is not working, trump is using the system to make him and his friends more wealthy. democrats have to have a message to speaks to people in montana and how your life is going to be better if we get in power. and if we don't, people will turn back to fear, which they did in the trump election. and the republicans will hold onto the house and the senate. sitting here four months out, i still am very nervous about my party's message to those voters in some of these states that doesn't look condescending, but instead say this is how your life will be better. >> elise, i want to ask you about something that general hayden wrote about. he writes, a few months after

mr. trump's inauguration i got a call from a colleague who thought he might be on a very short list for a very senior position in the trump administration. he asked my opinion. i told him that three months earlier i would have talked to him about his duty to serve. now i was telling him to say no. you're a young man, i said. don't put yourself at risk for the future. you have a lot to offer. some day. i got a lot of calls like that from people who were asked to come in and interview for communications jobs as i'm sure you did during the presidential transition. i told all of them to run, not walk away from the trump white house, because donald trump became president without anyone with a title of communications director. i didn't think it would be a post that he would value in the white house. george w. bush believed that without karen hughes by his side, he would not have prevailed in his presidential campaign. so, the karen hughes job was always in the room, and karen hughes had it, dan bart let had it, i had that job. we were always in the room. so, what about this idea that

this white house cannot recruit the very best people, which was central to the trump brand? >> well, and i am in a similar position. friends in national security and debating the pros and cons. i was very pro that we needed talented national security professionals who were a political to go into the administration. today i am not as sure simply because within the national security realm, they have been overreliant thinking the process would save the policy. and as we see, you know, last week with north korea, it doesn't matter what the agreed upon policy is. donald trump can decide that he's single handedly going to up end it. so, i don't think that the administration is able to attract talent just because it's become such an albatross, serving in the administration, outside of national security, in coms role, you look at how former staffers aren't able to get jobs. they don't have the hiring prospects that in previous

administrations you would have. >> imagine what it does to morale. i've heard people say this inside the west wing. when the president is going out and tormenting his attorney general on twitter on a daily basis and humiliating -- >> homeland security secretary. >> or secretary of state -- imagine what that does to the person who works a few levels down. this is why trump has failed to engender a lot of loyalty, except for really a handful of people around him. >> it's kind of a death spiral in the sense of the best people are hanging around outside. the worst people go in. the best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passion and intensity. that is the nature of the trump administration. >> well, wait, i love that. >> the worst are full of intensity. william butler bates. >> i love that. >> look at you, elevating us. what's the consequence for the country? >> that's what concerns me. once upon a time when, you know,

good people went in on both sides. we're different political parties, you care about the country, i care about the country, we have a different vision. now it's a spiral downward in that you have people who have no conviction, have no ability, trump sees it as a family business. he doesn't understand institutions. he doesn't understand government. he doesn't understand the scale of it. he doesn't understand the fact there are hundreds of thousands of people in washington who care about the country. they're doing it because they care about the values that america stands for. he doesn't know how to operate in that environment. and in the beginning i, too, wanted great people to go in there to kind of protect us. but now you know, i wouldn't advise them to do it. as an american i worry you don't have high-quality people in there trying to figure it out. >> in some ways it doesn't really matter because he's not using those institutions anyway. state department is not involved in these negotiations. he's largely set the cabinet aside. and if you look, except for

jared kushner who has by associating themselves with donald trump, who has improved their career standing. did you tell anyone to take a job in that white house or the add sngs no. >> no, it's a sad state of affairs. when we come back, good news. women, they're stipulating into the political arena in record numbers. maybe they'll save us. will they turn the tide for democrats in november? cecile richards joins the conversation. also ahead, pulling back the curtain on donald trump's nemesis. the not so failing "the new york times." inside a brand-new showtime documentary.

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where no one is unseen, no one is unheard, and no one is uninspired. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was stacey abrams, the winner of the recent georgia democratic gubernatorial primary. if she wins she will become the country's first african-american female governor. abrams is just one example of the many women we are seeing emerge victorious in primaries as they eye the november mid terms. according to the center for american women in politics, there are 528 women who have filed or are likely to file to run for congress this year. it's a phenomenon that women's rights activists and former planned parenthood president discusses in her new memoir, make trouble. standing up, speaking out and finding the courage to lead in which she writes, quote, now more than ever women are the most important political force in america. we have enormous power to change the direction of this country and it's time to use it. marching, knitting and

protesting are great, but voting and changing who is elected to office is essential. joining us at the table, cecile richards, the former president of planned parenthood, federation of america, my friend. we've had conversations over the years about all of these issues. and it's such a great read. but it really is a call to do more. i mean, you don't accept the stirring images of women filling the street in larger crowds, not that we are as obsessed with size as men, but our crowds were larger than the presidents. that's not enough. your point is go further. >> right. i think that's what we're seeing, as you said. women are not only running for office in historic numbers not only for congress, but also in governors races. we saw stacey abrams and that historic race. women are actually fueling i think all of the opposition to the policies that are happening right now. we saw last year in defeating the repeal of obamacare, in defeating the effort by the white house to end access to planned parenthood, it was women that were really behind that and, of course, it was two

republican women, susan collins and lisa murkowski who were really decisive votes and leaders in that fight. >> so, if you look back at some of the big standoffs in congress over the last five years, the government shutdowns during president obama's presidency, it was always women who kept the lines of communication open. >> agree. >> women fall short when it comes time to market those skills as political assets. it seems on the republican side, the loudest, most extreme, the members of the house caucus who are the most adversarial to the department of justice, to all of the norms that we see under attack every day, seem to be the ones that get the most air time. how do women grab back some of that oxygen for being diplomats, for being civilized, for solving problems? >> i think you hit on it right there, nicolle, what people in this country want is she want solutions, not problems. i think that's the frustration with politics. and women in particular are good at crossing the aisle. again, i think senator murkowski

and senator collins are a good example of that. one of the problems is women are simply outnumbered in congress as you know, we have records of women running. we have 20 women senators, senator claire mccaskill, what would be bert than that would be 50. you can begin to change the direction i can guarantee if there were more women in congress, more women in the united states senate, we would quit fighting over birth control and planned parenthood, issues that are unihim it in this country. that's why i think it is important to talk about why voting matters. it's the most -- government has the most influence on your life of any institution. >> are you surprised, you know, at this point -- you're a little bit into the trump presidency -- that things like the access hollywood tape didn't keep more women from voting for him? >> well, i think it's hard to go back now. there are a whole host of reasons why the election went the way it did. >> he's affirmed them. he hasn't become less offensive. >> he is incredibly unpopular

and he's very unpopular with women. i think one of the most interesting things i read recently was the washington post kaiser poll which showed that 20% of americans have actually taken place -- taken part in some kind of rally or march since this president was elected and 20% of those are folks who have never marched before, and the number one issue they're marching on are women's health and women's rights. i actually think women are very aware of how anti-woman this administration is, and it's not simply comments by the president. it's the fact that they are trying to repeal birth control access, they are trying to now put a dough me mess tick gag order on doctors and clinicians. women are worried. that's why women turnout in record numbers in these elections. >> they're also some of the loudest voices organizing around mass shootings in schools. >> that's right. >> we see mother after mother, very reluctant activists. it seems the people who have come into planned parenthood are reluctant activists, women who either personally or a sister or

a loved one was -- life was saved by having the services that planned parenthood avail to them. how do you break through on those personal messages against personal, political warriors with megaphones like fox news amplifying what really, you know, at their core aren't always factual arguments and rarely have the issues of reproductive freedoms and women's interests in mind? >> well, i think women are telling their stories. that's what's important, lifting up the real lived experiences of women. and you're right, women are not only concerned about access to affordable health care which we see consistently. they are worried about their kids being safe at school. we are seeing record numbers of teachers, 75% of whom are women, going out on strike saying we need better support for public education, better support for teachers and students in classrooms. i think women are -- and they're being inspired by each other. all of these things are connected. and, again, i think we're going to see -- we saw record turnout

of women in states like virginia with huge gender gap there. we saw, of course, african-american women making a decisive role in the election of doug jones in alabama. >> right. >> i think all of these attacks on women and women's health, their economic situation, these are -- this is really spelling i think record turnout of women in the midterm elections. >> all right. cecile isn't going anywhere, but when we come back, how planned parenthood has had to adjust to its new political reality, under a president who describes himself as the most pro life president ever. i'm still giving it my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to,

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we're back with cecile richards who is at the helm of planned parenthood for more than a decade. while the organization is no stranger to critics, president trump is set to deliver a blow to its mission. from "the new york times," quote, the proposed rule would bar clinics or programs that receive federal family planning programs from providing abortions or referring women to place that's do, imposing what

it calls a bright line of separation. the panel and cecile are still here with us. this is a debate you've actually been having with the white house i think since the transition, is that right? >> well, i mean, no one really thought that they would go this far, but this is what is known as a domestic gag rule. we've never had this in the united states. it basically says, not only planned parenthood, but any hospital, doctor, clinic that provides family planning services for the family planning program, they couldn't even inform women of their rights to have a safe and legal abortion or refer them to a place that provides that. and this is something that the president signed into law over sees, but now what he is saying -- right, now he's saying he's going to do it domestically. that's why we're seeing the american medical association, every doctor's organization saying, this is the most incredible intrusion into the doctor/patient relationship. but that's what he's saying he's going to do. >> wasn't it a reagan era idea

to do this? >> it was, yes. >> wasn't that passed during the reagan era or no? >> it was -- there was something that president reagan tried to do, but he left office before it could be implemented so it's never been implemented and it's really dangerous. i mean, because of course what it means is a lot of folks that are participating in the family planning program, if they also provide safe and legal abortion access, wouldn't be able to -- >> by the way, this was a bipartisan idea. george bush sponsored it in the house when he was in texas, it was signed by ronald reagan, title 10 protection for women to get family planning advice. >> i want to bring elise in the conversation. i think republican women sometimes feel left out of the coffer sakes about reproductive freedoms and about the politics around these issues. and i wonder if you think with sort of the surge of female candidates, the victories we've seen in some of the primaries and the surge of women voters in states that aren't electing

radical liberals, i mean, virginia did not elect a far left liberal. neither did -- doug jones is not in that mold either. so what is the saliency of this? >> i think in particular health care in general, and the lack of this -- of the trump administration to get anything done is an incredible rallying cry for democrats. i'm surprised they haven't been exploiting that more, that they haven't gotten anything done to improve obamacare after promising it for so many years, or even repealing it. but making their lives better. so, i just think in terms of the independent vote, you're seeing the educated voters, particularly educated women. i think that's what's going to swing the house when it comes to the fall. >> do you think it goes to the democrats? >> yes, i think democrats win the house. but i think there is much more

practici pragmatism. >> can we talk about how ridiculous it is donald trump aspires to be the most pro life president ever? when he was a new york whatever he was, tv guy, faux, titan of business, he was not opposed to partial birth abortions, but he didn't support legislation banning them with tim russert. >> he doesn't aspire to be the most pro life president. he is the pro life president from the executive orders he has signed, from the executives he's put in office, hhs, the judges he's a int toed to the courts, the supreme court and the lower courts. >> it's all political calculation. >> it is to counteract what elise was talking about because republicans cannot hold onto their majorities in the fall if pro life religious conservatives stay home. that's why donald trump was at this dinner on tuesday night in washington, d.c. speaking to one of the largest pro life organizations that exists, saying, i have kept my promises to you. he wants them to know that he has been doing everything that

he promised -- >> despite opposing partial birth abortion. >> it would be difficult -- i went around the room and talked to a lot of guests afterwards. it would be hard to overstate just how much good will they have toward donald trump, which as you point out, is so strange given that he spent most of his life as a pro life democrat which, by the way, the head of this organization, susan b. anthony pointed out at the dinner saying this pro life democrat from manhattan is now our greatest champion. who would have thought? they love it. it is frankly very energizing for them. >> let me ask you how you lead this fight right now. you're stepping down from this role, but are you going to step into another arena? >> i'm stepping aside in this role, but i think women are the most potent political force in this country right now. i think to the point you made, he may be energizing this very extreme group of folks in this country, but he is also just enraging women all across america, including a lot of moderate women, republican

women. one of the things that we see in polling right now is that women are desperately concerned about losing access to affordable health care. when they hear that donald trump wants to shutdown planned parenthood, for many women in this country, one in three in the most recent poll we did, that planned parenthood is the place they go to for health care. >> the irony, it's not about abortions. it's where they go for a pap smear, to get a referral for a mammogram. where they go for the hpv -- can you talk about -- i think some of this is people -- men who don't need these services and people who are pro life don't always understand what happens at a planned parenthood clinic. can you tell us? >> right. one in three folks have been to planned parenthood, most of them women. they come for birth control, they come for their annual exam, their breast exam. and for many women, we are their only health care provider. in paul ryan's own district, we have three health centers. and for many women who come to those centers, we're the only place they can go for affordable health care. i think the deeper irony for all

of this is the work we did, getting birth control coverage for millions of women in this country under the affordable care act, we're at a historic low for teenage pregnancy, 30 year low and lowest rate of abortion since roe v. wade. this president is trying to take this away. >> you've got your message. you have your successes. are you running for office? >> i'm going to try to help every woman i can get out to vote and win this november. >> are you ruling it out? >> you never want to rule anything out, but it's not my plan right now. i do think women, women have the opportunity and chance not just democratic women. women all across the board to change the direction of this country this november. and i think they will. >> thank you for spending some time with us. >> thanks, nicolle. >> again, the book is make trouble, standing up, speaking out and finding the courage to lead. maybe, maybe running for office some day, right? you didn't say no. when we come back, donald trump calls them failing. an enemy of the people. after a break, a look inside the

not so failing "the new york times" newsroom like we've never ever seen before. what it's like covering such an unconventional president. that's next. today, there are more sensors on our planet than people. we're putting ai into everything, and everything into the cloud. it's all so... smart. but how do you work with it? ask this farmer. he's using satellite data to help increase crop yields. that's smart for the food we eat. at this port,

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powerful odor control with activated charcoal. free of dyes. free of fragrances. tidy cats free & clean. when no scents makes sense. fake, phony, fake. and i want you all to know that we are fighting the fake news. they are the enemy of the people. >> we just got kicked out of the white house briefing. just so you know. >> trump's comments are so powerful today. >> this represented a real escalation from what he said. his story is his war on the media. that's what he did. >> hi. we were thinking of a story, trump giant attack on media which includes the fbi story. no, he's writing through? >> writing through now.

>> can i call you back? because a hairied editor came in and instructed me to write quickly. i'll call you back. >> journalist ands diplomats, the fourth estate and aptly named inside look at "the new york times". the team's extraordinary reporting and exactly what they're up against. primarilily an unconvejsal president who seems to be hell bent dragging them through the mud. of course it's not just the times. >> the poor guy, you have to see this guy. oh, i don't know what i said, oh, i don't remember. like this sleazy guy right over here from abc. he's a sleaze in my book. you're a sleaze. a few days ago, i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. >> she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her, wherever. >> are you considering a pardon -- >> thank you very much.

>> stupid question. >> jeremy, take it away. >> so, this documentary, "the new york times" has made a choice early on, is it better for us to have people actually see what we do, how carefully we work, how hard we pursue stories and try to get them right. would that be the right thing to do or are we going to be held open to further criticism? and the decision was made, higher than my pay grade, yes, it is better that people see exactly how we do our job so they know when the president says, you are the enemy of the people. that it's on camera right there. no, we're actually working very hard to confirm stories, to make sure we are not being too aggressive on the president, that maybe sometimes we need to dial a story back or maybe we don't have enough to go on it. so, i really think when people see this year long exploration

of how we did our jobs in the face of tremendous adversity, they will see that, no, we're not enemies of the people. we're just a bunch of hard working professionals trying to do our jobs and do them right. and the irony, of course, is that trump cares more about "the new york times" than any other publication. he wants so desperately to be m embraced by "the new york times". the other irony calling it the failing times. having run a news organization that wasn't exactly that profitable, "the new york times" is the one news organization that has cracked the code. digital revenue is higher than traditional advertising revenue or subscription revenue. "the new york times" has figured it out. so, in fact, i hope his attacks on you help "the new york times". the third irony is the one institution in our society that is protected by the constitution that is not the enemy of the people, that is the friend of the people, is the press.

and he clearly does presiden't understand how the couldn't institution works. attackth the one engine meant to protect all of us. >> we worked in the white house. the white house doesn't always have different interests than the press that cover them, but they have never wage an asymmetrical war like donald trump has. donald trump lies more in one morning's tweet storm than any news organization, reputable news organization does in two decades. so, the idea that he's attacking news organizations that have lawyers, that have editors, that have standards departments, with lies is another example of sort of trumpian tactics that so far for the president have seemed to work. >> that's right. he rallies his own base and makes every kind of normal story seem like a crazy story. people don't know what's true, what's not true. >> fog machine. >> hug a baby, hug a dog. if you're worried about one story go make another story to

distract. he's the best i've ever seen at that. i have a question for you, jeremy. all across government, nicolle and i were talking about this earlier. you have morale level at the fbi because of attacks, morale low at the state department because they're being ostracized from the policy process. how is it on the front lines? are you more motivated by this or does it feel like jesus -- >> morale at "the new york times" could not be better. it's seen some pretty distressing days over the last decade or so, right? there was a time when not so long ago when we didn't know if we were going to make it. and this is the great irony, i think, of the trump administration, is that he has unwittingly produced this golden era for journalism. the very kind of probing, truth-seeking reporting he decries as fake news. you'll notice when you watch this movie is on the one hand, in public trump attacks us as the enemy. he calls us liars and fakers and

phonies. you'll see the flipside of this. is trump calling "the new york times"? is trump asking, seeking its approval? >> sitting for 45-minute interviews which he's gone rogue and called your colleagues maggie haberman, they can't get him to stop talk. >> there is a scene like that in this film. there is me talk ing with a senior administration official who left the oval office. you kind of see the give and take that happens there behind the scenes while they're out there in public, totally dee faming us. >> i want to ask you about -- this is all high minded, the first amendment. i think it's interesting the last two presidents used the time in the transition between president obama and donald trump to stick up for the press. george w. bush did an interview with matt lauer, president obama went to the white house briefing room, i think it was his last visit to the briefing room, was to stick up for a free press and

its importance in a democracy. >> well, just as quite the contrast as always, look at how -- i remember during the obama years it was comical to hear the complaints from your administration about how everyone, the press is so tough. the bush administration, we felt like the media had just been so tough on us. then you cut to this administration and it's just like, yeah, this is another world. we all -- every administration is going to complain about the coverage they get, but this is really just completely bonkers and off the rails. >> i have to ask you about elizabeth. she was the white house correspondent who covered the white house image i worked. i talked to her four, five, six times on a busy day. she emerges as a central character of the dock. >> she is. i was teasing her about this the other day. she's always sighing in the movie. >> elizabeth, i can't tell you who the supreme court pick is.

i know you will. >> everyone assumes -- there are a lot of people in the movie who are running around with their heads cut off. >> not her. >> under tremendous stress. the way she handles it is with such good humor and poise it's a nice contrast. >> she's great. i think everyone looks forward to seeing it. it is an interesting point that you make about the president being more obsessed with "the new york times" than any of his predecessors. i think that's true. maggie haberman. >> the seeking of approval. it was his hometown newspaper, the elite newspaper. the thing he's different than any other president who complained about press coverage, he takes a sort of stalin-esque of the press. there is an old expression. when a con man tells you a con, believe him. the reason i demean the press is when you write negative stories about me, people won't believe

it. that's exactly what dictators and authoritarians have done in history. >> the same tactic with the fbi, same with bob mueller's investigation, he wants to dee legitimatize institution so their word means nothing. >> it is interesting how there has been some, you know, diminution of the power of the press, a little bit here. the reason i say that is when i was growing up in follow ticks, people said, you will and i never get in the fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel who can wage war on you in the press. nowadays there is not really a problem for doing that, right? it drives more clicks. he wins when he goes to war with you. >> i don't know if he wins. i had mean, i think it's like every debate in the country. i think his 40% is satisfied by the attacks. but i think a larger percentage of the country is educated about things that otherwise would have no knowledge of. the stories you guys have broken -- >> if his plan is to drive his base, he does win. >> different media environment, too. >> that's right. >> you look at how it started during the obama years. you would argue fox news really

became so stridently anti-obama and continuing to the present day where it's practically an arm of the state. >> and the pew poll showed distrust for media going down. >> all right. we need to sneak in a break. coming up, in the absence of leadership in the oval office, look who is stepping up to fill the void. you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed?m let's get someone to say it with a really low voice. carl? lowest price guaranteed. what about the world's lowest limbo stick?

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our country is an embarrassment in the world. we continue to bounce our heads

off the wall with this conduct. or we can decide that the institutions of our country are more important, that people are more important. >> he doesn't understand the power that he has for being the leader of this beautiful country. he doesn't understand how many kids no matter their race, look up to the president of the united states. >> our differences, i think, in terms of our team and our organization's values are so dramatically different -- i'm talking in terms of inclusion and civil discourse and dignity. and it's hard for us every day. you know, we are seeing the things he's saying. >> the things that he has said and the things that he hasn't said in the right times that we don't stand for. and by acting and not going, hopefully that will inspire some change when it comes to what we tolerate in this country. >> those were some of my most favorite figures from the world of sports. but they are there because they

are fill this leadership vacuum. i have never paid closer attention to the things that athletes and coaches have said not about sports than i do right now in the time of trump. >> if you look on line, their numbers when they talk about politics skyrocket. right? because there is no leadership. in today is the day of the outsider in politics. and the outsider can be normal politicians like barack obama and donald trump. or they can be athletes. if you look at the number one most tweeted political moment this year was the fight about lebron james. you look at some of the warriors guys, and i thought the most eloquent of the clips you showed there was pop, the coach of the spurs, talking about this. resistance starts at home. and these people are all trying to figure out a way to make a statement that we can live with. they have taken real risks we have seen the backlash in the nfl. >> that's the point. they are taking risk. you keep talking about how strong that republican base is for trump. but these are athletes with democrats and republicans in the

stand. >> that's right. but when i go out and talk to people they are parroting his language. they are parroting his insults verbatim. he has given them a pass. they take their cues for him. lebron said they take their cues from him. they take cues from him on how to behave. incivility is much more rampant. >> what does it mean when we are pointing our children towards lebron james and steph curry as how to behave. >> it is a moment for incivility and meanness that donald trump represents right now from the oval office. it's something that even trump supporters are uncomfortable with the tweets and the nastiness and the rancor. i think it's good perhaps that we are kicking the oval office

off of the pedestal and putting too much into it and citizens are being forced into more responsibility over our own behavior. >> last word. >> this is why it is a so important that so many women are running for office. it is a counter-veiling trend against the rise of you acratic testosterone fueled male leadership. that's why it is a big difference. >> we will leave it right there. we will sneak in our last break. we'll be right back. blam when i built my ancestry family tree, i found your story... then, my dna test helped me reclaim the portuguese citizenship you lost. i'm joshua berry, and this is my ancestry story. combine the most detailed dna test with historical records for a deeper family story. get started for free at ancestry.com

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tuesday night on mb. it's called he haveday racism in america. chris hayes and joy reid will

talk to a live audience in philadelphia discussing the issue of race in the time of trump. that's tuesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern. my thanks to today's panel. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts right now. if it's monday, it's memorial day midterm madness. good evening i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to a very special "mtp daily." all this hour we will dive into the political war for control of congress, which is quickly turned into a referendum on the president as the russia investigation hangs over all of it. democrats want to run on president trump's corruption, and republicans are baiting them to go nuclear. which means we begin tonight with the politics of