weekend. >> oh, no. >> only for the last three months. >> so sick of it. >> the good news is while it rains the weekend, it at least during the week -- >> it rains. >> welcome to "morning joe." with us we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc, kasie hunt. >> i've never been in the lightning bolt shot. very exciting. >> good to have you back. >> it was a joke up my spine. >> former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner is with us and look who's here. he doesn't smile because he's a strict journal. . "new york times" journalist, michael schmidt. >> he's actually an emotional wreck and sometimes we wish he

could keep it in. >> i came here to confront you after you made fun of me yesterday. >> also with us, nbc news national political reporter, heidi przybilla. good to have you all on board. you were great on broadway yesterday. joe was on broadway. >> with jimmy buffett. >> i know we were going to wait to talk about this. but it was fun and everyone loved it. everyone was so happy. >> mika pointed out. my debut on broadway and she points out. she said you know what, you're wearing the same exact outfit you wore the night before coaching your son and the night before and the night before. >> those are your nicest sweat pants. >> everybody else is in tommy bahama. >> it's a great time and the show, i mean people loved that show. >> they were having fun. >> so let's get to our -- >> jimmy, very nice guy. >> lovely. >> redneck riviera.

>> there he is, okay. >> let's get to our top story, the special counsel on the russia investigation has reportedly obtained more information about potential obstruction of justice. "the new york times" reports that former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe provided robert mueller's team with a secret memo. he wrote fearing a cover story had been hatched for the firing of james comey. michael schmidt, you're part of the reporting team on this story. take us through what we know so far. >> in the days after comey's firing, there's discussions between rod rosenstein and andrew mccabe, who is running the fbi at the time. and rosenstein says trump wanted him to include russia in the letter. mccabe unnerved by this following comey's what he had done writes a memo about this. gives it to mueller. the question was rosenstein saying trump said don't put say i'm firing you because of the

russia investigation because you're looking at my campaign? or was he saying -- put in the letter that i was not under investigation in the russia investigation. and thank you for telling me three times that i was not -- >> and michael, that's, again, while we don't know, that's certainly would fit everything that happened in the weeks beforehand. that he was obsessed with comey telling him you are not a part of our russian investigation. >> comey had time and time again a congressional hearings, to say that the president wasn't under investigation. and he would not do this. he was telling trump this in private. but he would not do it publicly. trump called him several times, comey told trump to go through the justice department on this issue. comey was very concerned about being out there on his own again, coming off of the election. he didn't want to go that far. interestingly, as comey said on his book tour, the fbi general counsel at the time disagreed

with comey's assessment that trump was not under investigation. the general counsel actually thought that trump, because he was in charge of the campaign, and they were looking at the campaign, was part of the investigation. >> there's been an ongoing obsession with him. whether he was part of the russia investigation and nobody has been able to tell him definitively, you're not part of the investigation. but of course, at the same time they don't have the smoking gun to suggest he is at the center of an investigation. it's been murky. and even now there's some suggestion that he's not definitively part of the russian investigation. for collusion. because they still don't know what paul manafort is going to say, so how can they make that determination? >> the president's former lawyer, john doud told him before he was fired in the spring, that mueller was not a target of the investigation, he was just a subject. he was part of a group of folks, but there was no plans to charge him in that sense.

that, the from the some folks that couth, the president was very happy to hear that. that he was not a target that dpaf him some comfort. but obviously since then he has not had a lot of comfort because he's lashed out. >> even as rudy giuliani is running around saying he's not part of the investigation, donald trump continues to just lose his mind every day on twitter. >> yeah. he won't stop talking about it, including yesterday. michael, the timing of this makes sense, the mccabe's letter. because if you think about the other statements that president trump made right around there, in may, 2017, i think it was may 11th, the interview with lester holt. where he said he fired comey because of quote this russia thing and the oval office meeting with russian diplomats, where he said i relieved some of the pressure about our relationship. getting the russia thing off the table. mueller has this memo right now. what does it tell you about mueller's investigation, where he's looking specifically? >> it shows the sort of depth

and breadth of the obstruction questions. there are the ohmy questions, there are also the sessions questions. but the other issue here, which we haven't really touched on, is the fact that rosenstein is the person overseeing the investigation. so we're talking about his behavior as part of the comey firing, which led to mueller being appointed, rosen stein overseeing all, but still today in the hot seat a lot because of that. >> you mentioned sessions, president trump went to bed last night with the u.s. attorney general on his mind. >> always on his mind. >> obsession. tweeting a quotation at 11:21 last night. the recusal of jeff sessions was an unforced betrayal of the president of the united states. you know what, joe digenova, former u.s. attorney who just appeared on fox news, thanks, that's amazing. let that sit for a second. sessions was spotted leaving the white house yesterday, after the

president singled him out. >> by the way -- i'm sorry, steve rattner, where does joe digenova go, after donald trump leaves. he would be the only attorney in the united states of america, that would probably have the audacity to go on television and say that jeff sessions had any other choice, legally or ethically. but to recuse himself if an investigation that he was a part of, because of troubling testimony he gave on capitol hill. and again, you just wonder how, how low will these people go? how much will they declown themselves, just so donald trump will watch them on fox news. and throw a tweet out. by the way, for people at home, this is not a close call. this is a guy rounding third base, a catcher standing at home

like this, with the ball the guy walking up and tagging him. you talk to any lawyer in your home town, that you trust, that's nonpartisan and ask if jeff sessions had any choice but to recuse himself. the answer clearly -- no. he had no choice. and joe digenova and donald j. trump beclowning themselves and making a mockery of ethics and the rule of law. >> look it's interesting that both sessions and rosenstein, whatever else sessions has done on immigration, on criminal sentencing things that we may not agree with, on this issue, he's gone absolutely by the book in terms of recusing himself and rosenstein handling it and all the rest of it. one question, is does trump understand how recusal works. >> does he still think this? >> he has people out there piggy-backing 0en this, destroying their own reputations -- >> he sees jeff sessions as he

saw michael cohen -- somebody to use. >> yeah. >> and then throw away. >> but somebody who would do exactly what he said because he worked for him. >> i love you boss, i miss you, boss. >> but the fact that trump doesn't understand how it works is no excuse for joe digenova not understanding how it works. >> maybe you would find that person on capitol hill. >> you know who that person was, that donald trump said -- was the smartest, greatest senator? he and everybody around him said, perhaps the smartest person they ever met? told him he could have any cabinet position that he wanted, none other than jeff beaugard sessions, who they said was the

smartest man in washington, d.c. who was brilliant until he actually did what every attorney in the united states would have to do ethically. >> which turned out to be the original sin, according to this president. michael schmidt, this makes it seem as though rosenstein, mccabe was worried that rosenstein was actually covering for the president. that there was a fight between mccabe and rosenstein that suggests maybe rosenstein has the president's back more than certainly the president seems to perceive it. is that what your reporting bears out? >> certainly at the time but there's so much that's happened with rosenstein since then. some people think it shows that rosenstein is independent and willing to let mueller go and do what he wants to do. or things more recently with this confidential source, where rosenstein has bent to the president's desires, asked the inspector general to look into these accusations that there was a spy in the campaign. when rosenstein knew that that wasn't true. he has had this incredibly

difficult position to thread between trying to keep the president at bay and protecting the mueller investigation. the good news for sessions is by recusing himself he was able to go off and i think was in bulgaria last week on some trip. >> wash my hands of that. >> all right. want to get heidi przybilla in here. so i'm going to give heidi the task of explaining what rudy giuliani said. >> good luck. >> president trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani, commented on the state of preparations for a potential interview between president trump and robert mueller. nbc's kelly o'donnell tweeted giuliani says he has done both in person and by phone sessions with the president, he says he has doing the q&a to educate me and he says i wants to mow what i can say that is privilegend and what i can say that isn't privileged. 11 days ago giuliani told reporters that mueller had said

he hoped to wrap up the investigation of the president by june 1. but yesterday giuliani seemed to suggest it was the trump's legal team for muler to retain his credibility. >> put together whatever the heck they have. by september 1st the public should have an explanation as to what mueller has. i really want that because i don't think he has much. >> the president said he's going to med until the mid terms. >> let him file his report by september 1st. mid september. >> you know it's important, though, when you look at the calendar, robert mueller is not going to want to be dropping bombshells. >> he's not going to want to be dropping bombshells in late september or early october. he's not going to want to be doing anything that could be seen as affecting the election in the same way that james comey helped elect donald trump. two years ago by droming the

bombshell in october. i'm sure if they could wrap up one phase of it by early september, they would love to do that you're not going to see a lot of surprises in october. better to go through it and wait until after election or drop something in september. >> do you think that bob mueller and rudy giuliani are having deep conversations, exchanging information on timelines, i'm thinking that rudy might be overstepping the boundaries of truth once again here. >> it seems while giuliani is still insisting this is a possibility for the president to sit for an interview, he's throwing down so many conditions that would serve as stalling tactics. that like joe says this is inevitably going to get pushed off. let's look at what he's doing here. he's saying first of all this past week that he wants to look at personally, at these department of justice documents that were used to brief lawmakers. not going to happen. secondly, he's saying that the

conversations between the president and any public official should be viewed as privileged and off-limits, who does that include? comey, it includes all of the material that you just discussed from michael schmidt's story in terms of rosenstein. so all of these things, which they are tangentially selling to the base are not going to happen during the course of this investigation. considering that obstruction is one of the major lines here of probing. but secondly on sessions, i wanted to weigh in a little bit on this because to the loyalty question, guys, i was on the plane with sessions, just totally coincidentally, it was right after the "access hollywood" tape had broken and i can vouch, there's no official who is more loyal, because jeff sessions was on that plane, he was the only surrogate with a horde of media who was still willing to stand there and take questions and stand behind this president when everyone else, including reince priebus was

heading for the exits. >> and mike pence, who is running for the hills and making statements and going quiet and you name it. everybody around him was, was running for the hills. >> you talk about loyalty. don't forget jeff sessions stood on stages with donald trump when the proposition that he would become president of the united states was completely absurd. jeff sessions was the first guy, remember -- he was the first guy with the hat. >> in mobile, alabama. >> he gave cover to other senators to fall in later. so if you want to talk about loyalty, president trump thinks he's disloyal, no one from the beginning has been more loyal than jeff sessions has. rudy giuliani was all over the place yesterday. yesterday he was on fox news where he talked more about the trump legal team's aggressive and unconventional strategy against the investigation. >> some people have criticized my strategy, which is the president's, of to some extent play together american people if this were a regular case, i wouldn't be doing it. but the people who will decide this are the people of the united states and the 2018

election. and they, boy, they are switching fast and the democrats are running for cover. you don't hear them say the words "impeachment" any more. >> i love that. because we've had so many democrats on our show over the past year, saying -- that they aren't going to say the word "impeachment" that impeachment is not their goal. that they talk about impeachment, they will not win in the fall. they're focused on winning at the ballot box. so willie, that was, i thought that was really interesting. and you know -- you know at home i've got a supercomputer, right? it's one of those, norad, it's like "war games" two of them. stacked up against each other. so i fed in the question late last night, after i saw this of course and the question was, who has mentioned impeachment over the past -- because i don't do the google because the russians will watch me.

so i go to my, i got my picture of matthew broderick up there, right? and -- >> get to the point you're going to make. >> and then i'm going to see how long i can drag this out. i put it in there, and then i go -- i get some coffee. >> it takes a minute. put some sugar in it. >> i'm sorry, mika. >> so i come out and guess who it kicks out as the only person that's been talking about impeachment this past week. >> who is that now? >> rudolph, beaugargard giuliani. >> the president could not be impeached. i think he could find it out. people should apologize for putting him through this. >> we're defending here, for public opinion. because eventually the decision is going to be impeach, not impeach. members of congress, democrat and republican are going to be informed a lot by their constituents, our jury is the american people. and the american people, yes,

are republicans, largely, independents, pretty substantially and even some democrats now question the legitimacy of it. >> kasie hunt. i've not heard any democrat speak as explicitly about impeachment as of late as did rudolph giuliani right there. >> you combed the halls of capitol hill. >> this is a question i ask literally every democrat. i walk the halls with a microphone and say do you think we're to that point. they all, to a person, with the essential of tom stire who is not a democrat. they said we need the mueller investigation to finish. if there's evidence of wrongdoing, we'd be happy to do it then. nancy pelosi said we cannot talk about this right now.

>> he's smarter than everybody. >> it's so telling that this is, this is what, what he is suddenly talking about. the point that he is the only person talking about impeachment, i think illuminates just how much this must be a part of the conversation behind the scenes at the white house. >> it's a political strategy, the president himself talks about it to energize republicans to come vote. he says if the democrats win the mid-term elections they will have the power to impeach me, we can't let that happen. >> what are you looking at today? where, where, where does this go next? >> i guess we have to follow the bouncing rudy. i feel like i spend half my time trying to figure out what he says and tracking him down. >> can you tell us the site -- i saw something a lot of what he says is confusing. he said something along the lines that he hadn't talked to the president personally in a couple of weeks? how often does he talk to the president? >> i went back to him and asked him about that.

and he said i'm talking to the president several times a day. >> did he have what tom hanks had in "joe and the volcano"? did he just have brain cloud? >> he's doing an enormous amount of media. and it for us reporters, we have to sort of chase it. he is the president's lawyer. and he is doing exactly what the president wants him to do. he's out there aggressively just pushing this message. and the president thinks they are scoring points that they are really moving the ball here. because they think it's a public opinion issue. >> so he talks to the president daily? >> yes. and i take him at his word on that. >> michael schmidt. thank you very much. thanks for being on the show. still ahead on "morning joe," the lawyer for stormy daniels is talking about tapes involving donald trump. only this time he says it's michael cohen who recorded them. we'll talk to "vanity fair's" emily jane fox, who was inside the courtroom yesterday. plus a new book sheds light

on how donald trump's election made barack obama reflect on his own policies. as president. in obama's word, quote, maybe we pushed too far. but first, here's bill karins. >> does anybody like -- >> he's rude, he gets in your personal grill. >> all he does is bring us rain every day, he's the rain man. >> the grass is green, the lawn looks great, yeah. >> how long -- >> how long must we sing this song? >> for a while. we're now under a flood watch for the washington, d.c. area for this afternoon and this evening. overnight we had about a foot of rain near charlottesville, virginia, flash flood emergencies happened. roads are washed out. careful traveling through the mountainous terrain of the blue ridge mountains. through the afternoon we have a flash flood watch for the d.c. area. we have about eight million people at risk, including the baltimore area up to hagerstown.

the timing of this for you, we're kind of cloudy and murky through about noon today. here come the showers and storms around 2:00 p.m. in the mountains. we'll have to watch the flooding potential there. for washington, d.c., we're timing you right around 7:00 p.m. this evening for thunderstorms and downpours and heavy rain. same for baltimore. so keep that in mind for your plans. heading further into the plains, let's add to the misery, 14 million people at risk for severe thunderstorms. same for paducah. if you don't like the rainy weather if you want to go out west, areas in texas are going to be extremely hot and humid. we're going to see temperatures getting up there about 105 today in west texas and for dallas and other areas, it's also a very humid, too. the misery index is pretty high today. depending on where you are. 100 for memphis, 103 in dallas. so yeah, pick your poison, you get the rain or you get the extreme heat in the middle of the country. if you want great weather head to the west coast. we take a look, new york city, one of those areas that's been

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welcome back to "morning joe," "the new york post," show the paper -- >> important meeting. >> "new york post," kim thong unsummit. >> and let's go to the "daily news." >> and glad the meeting finally happened. >> he wasn't sure if he was going to get it. >> the only kim he could get. >> msnbc contributor former boyfriend of kim kardashian -- >> it was a different time. >> i think it was right before kanye. >> mike barnicle joins the table. >> before ray jay. >> a different time. >> different time, different

place, different mic. you have a hot take on rudy giuliani. we would like to you share it with everybody. >> i think in his role thus far he's been incredibly effective for donald trump. i don't think he's losing it. think he knows exactly what he's doing and i think it's working. every tweet, every con by rudy giuliani is aimed at one thing, getting us in the media to react. we react. people loathe us to begin with. it adds to people's idea of what is going on here? is it the media against the president? rudy giuliani something believed and he has credibility among a specific percentage of americans. and it's working. their strategy, i think is working. >> do you think he knows -- so you think he knows what he's doing? >> yes. >> do you think he knows what day it is? >> no. >> president trump weighed in on the controversy surrounding roseanne barr and abc's decision

to cancel her show. >> he made it about himself and he didn't even talk about racism or the joke. the president tweeted bob iger of abc called valerie jarrett to let her know that abc does not tolerate comments like those made by roseanne barr. gee, he never called president donald j. trump for the horrible statements made and said about me on abc. maybe i just didn't get the call. white house press secretary -- >> i'm curious that does beg the question, when was bob iger supposed to call and apologize, supposed to apologize for coverage after donald trump you launched his campaign. suggesting that mexicans were rapists? or maybe in later 2015 after the muslim ban? or in 2016 when, mike, when. >> he's conflating media and entertainment. >> when he pretended he didn't know who david duke was? didn't know that the klu klux klan had ever done anything

wrong. or maybe 2017 when he defended white supremacists and neo-nazis or 2018 when he called hispanics breeders? when exactly was bob iger supposed to call and apologize to president trump for reporters reporting the horrific racist things this man said for four years now? >> well bob iger and, has a terrifically brilliant, very smart idea of public relations. how to react. you don't react. you don't reply to what the president of the united states says. but this leads to another hot take. >> hey, alex. >> came with a batch of them. >> we need a fire thing going across the stage and some mike's hot take or barnicle's burnin' take. >> we'll get the same people who did the kasie hunt kc/dc. >> kids if you're scoring this

at home this is barnicle's second hot take. not a hot flash, it's a hot take. >> this is 2, go. >> this is out of the hypocrisy file. the president of the united states so consumed with colin kaepernick and the nfl players saying get those sons of bitches off the field. a direct quote from the president in the tape we have. this is the same president who calls roseanne barr, who did the most unpatriotic thing you've ever seen at a ball game, her rendition of the national anthem in san diego years ago, in which she ends it with an obscene physical gesture. he says nothing about this woman. >> it doesn't work for him it doesn't help with his base, i guess? i don't know. white house press secretary -- you must be tired of all of these hot takes. >> my hair's on fire. >> press secretary sarah sanders later defended the president's

grievance. >> the president simply calling out the media bias, no one is defending what she said. the president is the president of all americans and he's focused on doing what is best for our country. >> so meanwhile, after roseanne tried to defend her racist comments by blaming the sleep aid ambien, the drug's maker senofi tweeted this -- this is from the maker of ambien. people of all races, religions and nationalities work at senofi every day to improve the lives of people around the world. while all pharmaceutical treatments have side effects, racism is not a known side effect of any sanofi medication. >> willie you're always asking me can you tell me a scarbrough country joke. >> mel gibson was pulled over

and started making racial slurs at the police officers who pulled him over. >> i thought that was alcohol. >> yeah, he was drunk. so we on scarbrough country, did we have to talk to a lot of lawyers to do this. i get one of my yavitz to start drinking and we had a, a new jersey sheriff there. and he administered the breathalyzer test and he would drink and drink and until his alcohol level went up to you know -- >> those were different times around here. >> and we would ask -- any antisemitic feelings? he ended up actually went a little bit over where mel gibson was. >> but no antisemitic statements? >> no. >> good for mike. >> it's the same thing for ambien -- which has caused you

some problems. you walked downstairs and ate an entire jar of nutella. >> my kids said it made me nice to the other parents, i don't remember, but okay. i'll never take it again, actually. >> so parents if mika has been nice to you -- >> it's not real. >> all right coming up -- heidi, heidi might know about this. >> we're in the going to ask hieidi about this. >> i only take the nonracist brand of ambien. >> here we have again sarah sanders defending the indefensible. and donald trump again -- very interesting, donald trump still has not defended roseanne barr. he loved her, he sent -- sent congratulations, he talked to her. but maybe he understands that she crossed the line? maybe there's only so far,

somebody can push racist commentary, even for donald trump? >> there's still time, joe. >> joe, this is where we are, is that he also hasn't condemned it. in any other administration, if someone had aligned themself with someone like roseanne barr, so tightly like this president, we would expect not just a tweet ignoring it, but something condemning it. and that's why this is just going to go on that pile of other examples where this president has had an opportunity to calm down racial tensions in this country, and has either ignored it or has added to it. you listed them at the beginning, joe, but from the beginning we've seen a lot of the public figures that this president targets are minorities. the fights with fredricka wilson, lavar ball. the san juan mayor, going after the nfl. this is going to be one more example as we go forward. coming up, prosecutors in

the case against michael cohen say they'll need a little more time to piece together documents found in a shredder from the raids in april. we'll tell you what came of kim kardashian's visit to the white house yesterday. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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just like the nixon tapes, years ago, we now have what i will refer to as the trump tapes. mr. ryan admitted that there are audio recordings, that michael cohen was taking for years. not only do they exist, but they are under lock and key and some of them relate to my client and her attorney/client privileged communications. >> you're calling these the trump tapes. that is very interesting. that is very exciting. but you don't in fact know whether donald trump is or is not on any of these tapes yet. >> i know for a fact that donald trump is on at least one of these recordings. ari. >> how do you know that? >> i'm not going to get into details of how i know that.

>> would you say that in court? >> absolutely. >> you know that at least on one occasion he is on the tape. >> yes. >> and you know that because you've heard that tape in. >> i'm not going to get into that -- >> if you haven't heard that tape, do you really know that or has someone just told thaw. >> on at least one of those recordings, donald trump is on one of the recordings, at least one of them. i know that for a fact. i stand behind it. i think if you look at my track record over the last three months, it's impeccable. >> would you describe that as something you have personal knowledge of? >> yes. >> so the attorney for stormy daniels, michael avenatti back on television after yesterday's michael cohen hearing, claiming that trump's voice is 0 on audio tapes that cohen recorded. the topic of audio tapes was raised in court, but cohen's attorney didn't identify anyone's voice is on the recording. that came after avenatti refused

to join the cohen case. he got pounded by all sides yesterday according to reports out of there. let's bring in right now senior reporter at "vanity fair" and nbc news and msnbc contributor emily jane fox who was in the courtroom yesterday. and you know from everything i heard, from inside that courtroom, michael was getting hammered from all sides. and none of it really very good. >> it was interesting. what happened yesterday in court happened on two tracks. you had what was supposed to happen in this status conference where you had judge kim ber wood denying michael cohen's attorney's request to have until mid july to go through all of these 3.7 million files that the government took from him in april that was a blow to michael cohen. they have basically two weeks to go through two-thirds of those 3.7 million files. it's going to be crush. but then you had sort of a sideshow in court with michael avenatti where the tapes were brought up as we listened to.

where judge kimba wood said look you have to stop this publicity four tour if you want to continue this this case. and you had steve ryan, michael cohen's attorney say his professional conduct i've never seen anything like it in my 30-some years of practicing law and you had the lawyer for donald trump piling on. >> what about the southern district of new york? >> they said we're not wading into this. and i think that's the point, right? this is a sideshow that people and michael cohen and his attorneys are very focused on because he's been out and in public and talking about this case. but what's going to matter is what the government does and whether prosecutors do zbl. >> and what the prosecutor has. >> and in court people felt like no one breathing, watching all of this happen. but what is to come legally is going to be far more dramatic. >> when asked about the shredded documents in a second. it looks like michael avenatti

was given a choice yesterday in the courtroom, continue what the judge called his publicity tour, come on tv and talk about the case or represent your client in this courtroom. and he chose the publicity tour. is that right? >> sort of. the request was being held in abeyance anyway. so he wasn't going to be able to intervene right away. so i believe his explanation has been if we weren't going to be able to intervene anyway, let's drop my what they call the pro hok vice application. >> sew may come back around. >> if he feels like it serves his client best. >> what specifically was avenatti's request yesterday? >> the request was to be able to join the case as a lawyer who practices law in california. he wants to be able to practice law in new york. and so he dropped that request right now until the government is ready to say yes, you can intervene. so it may come back around. >> so prosecutors said they need time to put together shredded documents, it was my understanding and joe's, that

once you shred a document. they're gone forever. >> best of your war games computer. >> what does that mean, they're literally piecing together shredded documents? >> what they said in court yesterday was they've returned i believe it was 13 mobile devices, 19 other devices like hard drives, thumb drives. there are two blackberries that they have yet to be able to crack that may belong to michael cohen's wife or may not belong to her. and contents from a shredder. we're not sure what that is. i would say i've interviewed michael co-en in his office before and there was a personal shredder there. >> this teaches us all a lesson as we look at michael cohen and i think he's talked to all of those who operate like you and i do. we're going to go from the shredder to one of those burn bins. >> emily jane you broke the story keeping up with the

kardashians. >> somebody said on twitter that's a shot out of madam tusseau's wax museum. >> so we had time to meet with kim kardashian. but no time to actually tweet anything or say anything about roseanne, racism and the state of america. but go ahead, tell us about this fascinating meeting of the minds i should say. >> this was a jared kushner special. they've been in touch for months. actually i believe that kim kardashian first reached out to ivanka trump and ivanka sent her jared's way, jared has been focused on prison reform. he just got his security clearance back. so this is his first big act since getting his clearance approved. she came to the white house and met with jared and his team and was taken to the oval office and had dinner at ivanka and jared's last night. >> they've been laying low. jared has especially, right? >> i wouldn't call this laying

low. >> i would say if you want to lay low, don't bring kim kardashian to the west wing. >> we're living in an at dna nat world when you bring kim kardashian for prison reform? >> that's straight out of "snl." >> can you lean back? >> emily jane fox, thank you. we were done. that was fascinating, though, we'll have you back following the michael cohen angle and any reality stories that come to the white house. stop. >> what? >> just stop. still ahead, insight into barack obama's thinking after the election of donald trump. even questioning if he ran before his time. we'll read from his long-time adviser's new book. "morning joe" is coming right back. it took guts to start my business.

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. press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was visibly rattled during yesterday's briefing as she took a question from an unlikely reporter -- take a look. >> at my school we recently had a lockdown drill. one thing that affects mine and other students mental health is the worry about the fact that we or our friends could get shot at school. specifically, can you tell me what the administration has done and will do about these senseless tragedies. >> i think that as a kid and certainly as a parent there could nothing be more terrifying than for a kid to go to school and not feel safe. i'm sorry that you feel that way. this administration takes it seriously and the school safety commission that the president convened is meeting this week again, in an official meeting to discuss the best ways forward and how we can do everything within our power to protect kids in our schools and make them

feel safe and their parents feel good about dropping them off. >> that was 13-year-old benje cochran who was there to cover white house sports and fitness day for time for kids. instead he used his question to ask act school shootings and gun reform. cochran tells "people" magazine he was initially nervous because sarah sanders is "a big deal." i remember when a young woman asked dan quayle about abortion on a school bus. didn't end well for anybody at all. >> no, i'm struck watching that that we have eight, nine, ten-year-olds in america who can just stand up there and talk about lockdowns in school. a kid who has to contemplate running for your life inside school. >> my kids, your kids don't

remember what you, steve, and i remember, which is the fear of a possible nuclear war, you do the drills, you go down, go to any school, see where the fallout shelter was, signs were all over the city and it just sort of hung over you as a kid and you were always worried about it. that's gone but this is a new sort of fear. >> but -- >> that every child has. >> i do remember that but it's nothing like this because there were no nuclear attacks so you went through the drills and you were sort of aware of it but it wasn't like there were these shootings every few weeks that reminded you of how dangerous it was. >> it was also a foreign adversary that everybody was going to be affected if something like that happened so, yes, everyone had to. but this is the kind of thing that i think can spark a political sea change. this is the bottom up -- you know, i am listening everyday for my children to go to school. i'm scared for them.

something has to change. >> there's been almost -- probably the wrong word to use is there's been almost a normalization in kids' minds of school shootings and no matter their age these things they have from the age of eight, nine, ten years of age bring it to them immediately. they are used to the drills in every school in this country of how to avoid or escape from school if a school shooter is on the premises and the second aspect is for a fleeting ten seconds you saw sarah huckabee sanders as a parent not a press secretary, it was only ten seconds, but it was there. >> there was a story in the "new york times" talking about the reasons for these school shootings, why they've taken off and the "new york times" at least says researchers have trace sod many back to columbine. coming up, why exactly did donald trump fire james comey? there is new reporting on a secret memo that factors directly into bob mueller's

obstruction investigation. we'll explain that and bring in a member of the senate judiciary committee, republican mike lee. and doris kearns goodwin joins the table when "morning joe" comes right back. t, i'm all-business when i travel... even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro. metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. mbc doesn't take a day off, and neither will i. and i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio- the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. in fact, verzenio is a cdk4 & 6 inhibitor

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rattner. and joining the conversation, pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. good to have you. we're so sorry for your loss. >> i can't tell you how much it meant to me when you did the tribute. stories matter. all my life that's what i've been trying to do is keep presidents who were once alive alive, and to keep my husband alive through the telling of the stories mike and all of you shared meant so much. thanks. >> it's good that mike was with you in the final days. >> we could have gone on and on and on. >> really felt that way, isn't that amazing that memories become part of what tie you together at the end with your friends? and those memories continue. you're not gone. those memories are still there. >> when we talked on the phone, you told me something very poignant about him. a guy who had been known in early years possibly having sharp elbows and sometimes running over people in conversations. you've said in the end when he had even lost his ability to

taste food, lost his appetite he would still go out with you and he would still go out with your friends and he would sit there patiently, quietly, lovingly out at dinner because he knew that is what you wanted and that's what your friends wanted, that that was part of what bound you together and damn it, he was going to do it for everybody else around him. >> the amazing thing is the whole last year when he battled cancer, he went through surgery and radiation, he got clean scans, everything was fine till the last month. but during that time your taste goes. the only thing he could taste was ice cream and he kept wanting to take his own gibson's. and even that taste was gone but he would sit there talking as if he was fine until the very end. i'll never forget the grace and dignity. i hope i can handle it as well as he did. it helps a lot.

>> is there a moment, is there a story? we all tell stories, mika says i tell too many stories. >> maybe a few too many. >> and she says i repeat them. >> that's what it is to get together over the years to do that and you say i've heard that before. >> tell us, is there a particular story that you think captures the spirit and essence of who he was at his best? >> i think it's a larger story that isn't just my husband. in that era of the 1960s you graduated from harvard law school, then what? you decide you want to go into public service as so many people did. politics and public service was considered an honorable vocation. he never practices law despite being first in his class and he goes to kennedy, johnson, bobby kennedy, mccarthy. all because he believed in what those characters were doing and there are a bunch of people who

that time felt this way and where are those kind of people going? are they going into politics today or do they choose other fields because it's exposing too much of themselves and their families lives. you have to spend so much time raising money and you're not having that sense of accomplishment. he would talk about what they did and i remember he talked about it on the show the things that happened in the '60s. what pride to know you give a speech and help president johnson say "we shall overcome" and on the civil rights movement is combined with what's happening in the government. eight weeks later, voting rights act passes, medicare, medicaid. you can remember those things the rest of your lives. i'd give anything to have our politics like that today. >> we all would. >> one story that popped in my mind listen to you that dick recounted to me and others and it's pertinent to the time and day we live in right now and it has to do with george wallace visiting lyndon johnson in the

white house. are you going to stand in the schoolhouse door? are you going to try to thwart what we're doing? wallace comes into the white house and johnson prepared the couch in the oval office specifically for his visit with soft pillows on the couch so when george wallace -- >> 5'4". >> -- sat in the couch he would sync sink in. and johnson pulled the chair over to the couch and he said to him -- recounted what they were trying to do, what he wanted to do for the country and he looked at wallace and said "so, governor, it's your choice, how do you want to be remembered? do you want to be remembered when people say george wallace, he hated, he destroyed, looking down at him. he said do you want people to think george wallace, he grew. >> he built. that's the thing. i think those politicians at that time and for some of the decades later they thought about how they would be remembered in

history. when he was trying to get republicans to pass the civil rights act in '64, he'd say everett, you come with me on this bill and 200 years from now school children will know only two names -- abraham lincoln and everett dirksen. how can dirksen resist? >> the light touch by lbj. >> i think so. >> we were talking about the power of words and how much they matter and how stunning it is, how extemporaneous this presidency is and that is saying it kindly. we're talking about global affairs and north korea and the president riffs on it and i worry that we don't even understand or there isn't a real national understanding of how dangerous that could be. >> without a question. you know abraham lincoln was one of the best political debaters probably in our history. we could have wit, he could be mean if he needed to in a debate. as president, he never spoke extemporaneously because he was afraid if he wasn't prepared for

his words that they might say something that would get in the wrong direction so people would come and celebrate a union victory and he would just come out and thank the soldiers and he'd say "i'll wait until i speak when i know what i'm saying." >> we're in a very different place at the moment. >> tell me how dick grappled with some of the graver images that came out of the 1960s and the policies. i was talking about ken burns' documentary on vietnam and there was obviously remarkable work done by lbj on civil rights and so many other things but it wasn't just lbj, it was jfk caught on tape saying they hate us in vietnam, we need to get out of there but i can't get out of there until after the election, nobody will reelect me if we don't. and you can take it through nixon as well.

how did he deal with that? how did he grapple with that? >> the amazing thing is that in the fall of 1965, dick left the white house. here he was at the height of his power not only the "we shall overcome" speech, the great society speech, the howard university speech, he was the central policymaker, but he saw what vietnam even then was doing to domestic programs. >> in '65. >> he left in the fall of '65. he was considered a traitor by some people in the white house. then he started speaking out against the war and he eventually went to work for mccarthy and then for bobby kennedy. that's conscious. he paid a price for it. people said you'll never be back in public life again. but that didn't matter to him. it wasn't that he saw early on what was war was doing, it took longer to see that, but he saw all the energy from the great society was being channelled into the war, he could see that already. >> do you think the -- because this is one of the things we took out of ken burns' documentary, that the world we

live in today, donald trump's world, so much of it came out of the lies that were told to young boys and americans throughout vietnam, throughout watergate and there are a lot of guys right now sitting at vfw halls across central pennsylvania that fought that war saying wait, the best and the brightest? the best and the brightest got me sent over to vietnam for three years, i'm good with a guy that talks to me like trump. >> i couldn't agree with you more. that's when the whole world credibility got used. it means what the president is saying and what's happening and today that chasm is greater than ever. >> we're learning more of how barack obama reacted to the 2016 election. a new book by obama's long-time r adviser david rhodes describes his boss struggling to come to terms wi s wits with donald tru victory.

rhodes quotes obama as asking allowed "what if we were wrong" after reading a question that suggested liberals failed to understand americans' needs. according to the book which was reported on by the "new york times," obama added "maybe we pushed too far. maybe people just want to fall back into their tribe." president obama also called mr. trump a cartoon figure who cared more about his crowd sizes than policy. according to the "times" description of the book, president obama expressed rare self-doubt, questioning whether he had misjudged his own influence on american history saying "sometimes i wonder whether i was ten or 20 years too early." ben rhodes will be our guest next week. >> i think maybe barack obama, if i could humbly say this, may have been four or eight years too early because the second he got to the senate he had harry reid saying you don't want to be here, just run on -- there's my complaint. i was too tough on him last election but marco rubio, you

know what? i'm glad marco rubio lost, i'm glad he's sitting there in the senate learning how to be a senator, learning how washington works and guess what? one day i may support marco rubio but this idea, doris, that somehow politics is just a game you can play by getting into washington and the next day planning your presidential run has grew up around politics. he didn't immerse himself in it. barack obama got into washington, immediately thought of running. and donald trump, contempt for politicians. bill clinton for all his failings seems to be the last person who understood the business. >> but he had his contribution into problems with the truth as well, which is why we're here. >> true. the more experience you have in learning how to get along with

other people, in dealing with policy on washington's level or state level or local level, teddy roosevelt had been not only a state legislator, he'd been a civil service commissioner, a police commission commissioner, a person in the army, a vice president. that meant he had a winding path that he could build on these experiences. the real worry is we think you can pop into office, not simply not being a politician, not even being a leader of something. you learn by being the leader. >> but this was the appeal of donald trump to voters that he wasn't a senator or congressman. he was going to go mix it up. he's a ceo, he's going to fire people that is the reason he was elected at all. >> i couldn't agree with you more. we don't respect the political system. we are a democracy. unless our politicians can deal with us, unless we can have respect for them, democracy can't work. >> when you look at the numbers of how people feel about

congress and the presidency, they're terrible. we run a country where 15% of the people approve of what congress is doing. one of the interesting questions is whether the public will react to donald trump's presidency by saying this didn't work, let's get somebody with experience who nose wh knows what they're doing or whether they'll say -- >> let's bring another celebrity in. >> let's bring another celebrity in. >> the thing about lbj and why he was able to accomplish so much, mike, is lbj knew everything that was happening in congress. if a bill -- and doris know this is so much better than any of us. but if a bill was stuck in a subcommittee, in the house, he would pick up the phone and say what's going on over there? >> again, we have guys that have got into the white house thinking they're somehow above it all. >> but joe, that was a time, an era, a decade that congress operated largely on friendships

more than partisanship. they knew one another, republicans and democrats. their families were familiar with one another. they weren't so consumed with spending four hours a day raising money as they are now. doris, when you think about that time and today it was a more reflective time and today no matter who was president, barack obama, donald trump, we have no time for reflection given the instruments that we think have improved our lives. at the same time we are going through the most important pivotal cultural political and economic change in our country in 100 years, since the industrial revolution. and the tumult that it has caused during the course of all being played out with a 17 year long war that takes the same people that went to vietnam, takes the same people, costs

them their lives, what do we expe expect. >> i think it's something none of us have these days. you think about at least during the cuban missile crisis jfk had time to think before he had to speak and say what he was doing. fdr went on a fishing trip for ten days prior to world war ii and came up with the whole idea in his head because he got outside of washington. they used to play poker together, they drank together. they felt a loyalty to the institution that was larger than party and they were friends across party lines. when johnson came in, he had every single congressman in groups of 30s to the white house. he would have drinks with them, lady bird would take them on a tour to the white house so they could feel they were part of the white house. you need presidents who like those guys. >> one of tip o'neill tunnel's five best friends in the house of representatives was a congressman from grand rapids, michigan, gerald ford.

gerald ford becomes president of the united states. within the first week after he's sworn in he has tip and millie o'neill to dinner with gerald and betty ford. and one of the questions tip o'neill tunnel told me later that gerald ford posed to him was "sttip, do you have any ide what the assumption of the presidency is going to mean to my pension?" [ laughter ] that's a real human being. >> we're talking about barack obama and some of his regrets. i suspect some of his regrets will be some of donald trump's regrets, in part because they're taking short cuts. yes, donald trump decided to remove us from the paris accords. because barack obama did it unilaterally without congress so it wasn't winding. the iran deal, done unilaterally by one president, undone unilaterally by the next

president probably put back in place by the next president. all the epa regs that conservatives cheer donald trump, the obama era reversed, they'll be reversed again. we now have a government -- because congress doesn't work in regular order, we have a government that is being run by presidential fiat. and it feels good to barack obama's base and it feels good to donald trump's base and it will feel good to the next president's base but until somebody knows how to run washington and figure out how to get 51 votes in the senate and 218 votes in the house we're going to keep running in circles, aren't we? >> exactly. executive orders give you something in the short term but a law is something that's lasting and you have to figure out how to get both sides -- the real problem is who is going to frame the narrative of where we are right now. what worries me so much about

the talk about russia and the investigation, it's going to happen whatever is going to happen. time is going by and what's happening in all the agencies of this government right now, we have not framed the narrative of what's happening at the epa, what's happening in fair housing which is being taken away and unless we do that then the base is going to be there and another base is going to be there and the country doesn't have an "us" it doesn't have a "we." doris, stay with us. our next guest's book is up your alley. it's called "written out of history. the forgotten founders who fought big government." the author, republican senator mike lee, joins us straight ahead. plus andrea mitchell will join the table on the new developments in the ongoing nuclear talks with north korea. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. how do you become america's best-selling brand? by opening new doors to big possibilities with the first ever ford ecosport. woman: my niece maria. maria: hi! woman: perfection! by connecting drivers to what's important.

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joining us now, republican senator from utah, mike lee.

the senator's book "written out of history, the forgotten founders who fought big government" is now out in paper back and senator, good to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> mike, always great talking to you. i've got to say, you've never been afraid to take unpopular decisions and this book is -- you're no different in this book, actually siding with aaron burr. kind of going against the cultural grain and historical grain of the past 200 years or so but you say aaron burr was an early defender of small government. tell us about it. >> he was. aaron burr is known by many americans today based on how he's portrayed in the broadway hit "hamilton." >> well, he did kill hamilton. >> yeah, there's that. >> it's not like he was a -- >> he was not a saint by any means. >> it's not like this was a cheech & chong movie. he shot him right across the river here. >> that is an important point to

remember. [ laughter ] i devote a chapter to him because he's more complicated than that. he's a more nuanced character. he's not all bad. as vice president under thomas jefferson's first term aaron burr served as a defender of the rights of the accused, particularly those who had been accused by jefferson and his allies. this is one of the things that made jefferson angry and one of the things some people speculate that led to him becoming a political enemy and target of jefferson during jefferson's second time in office when aaron burr no longer had the luxury of being the vice president. so this man is interesting and also his victimization, you might say, by thomas jefferson during his second administration shows us that even a great founder, the author of the declaration of independence like thomas jefferson can end up becoming power hungry and overreaching in office. it's one of the reasons we need to have constraints that limit the power of individual people

within our federal system. >> isn't it fascinating, though, reading your book, reading other historical books that study the first 20, 30 years of the republic when we sort of feel like our founders descend sended from the clouds and gave us stone tablets, they were having the exact same fights. whether you talk about jefferson and hamilton in washington's cabinet or jefferson and burr or jefferson and adams. that creative tension is what made this government work. go back to the federalist papers. madison's view and hamilton's view. but they synthesized and created an extraordinary document. >> that's right. and one of the things we have to remember is as you say, joe, there are very few debates that are truly new when it comes to the size, the scope, the structure of our federal government.

sure, the context has changed, the parameters have changed a bit but the same basic discussion is very similar to what it was then. now and then it's been important to focus on the fact that governments operate only by force and we don't have access to angels or immortal superbeings to govern over us. that has to be done by humans and that has to be careful about power, that's a key focus of written out of history. >> isn't that the genius of madison who understood checks and balances and let me ask you as somebody, who i'm sure like me, grew up reading madison and thanking god madison was there at the founding, aren't you concerned that donald trump -- because i certainly am -- does not respect the madisonian checks and balances as much as the 44 presidents who preceded him? >> look, i didn't think any of the 44 presidents who preceded our current president were angels. in fact, we know that they were

not. that's why it's important in every era to do this and what we've seen, joe, over the last 80 years makes it even more concerning than it had been previously because of the fact that we've had a congress who, contrary to madison's expectation has been unwilling to defend its power, to jealously guard the authority the constitution grants to this congress. >> i completely agree with you, senat senator, and that's what i would love to see congress do right now. but it's been long since you all have had regular order, hasn't it? >> long since we've had regular order and one of the reasons why a couple years ago i got together with a few of my colleagues in the house and senate and we put together something called the article i project. the idea of the article i project was to identify areas in which congress has just categorically relinquished its authority. we've seen in the regulatory

policy where we'll pass something saying we hereby delegate to agency x the power to make good law in area y and that's the end of it. we see in the trade authority. it's one of the reasons why we came up with the global trade accountability act. the purpose of which to say when the president or somebody in the executive branch takes an action that could start a trade war congress should have to vote those things into law rather than give them a way to the executive branch. it was intended congress exercise this authority, not that it be exercised unilaterally within the executive branch. >> and that's important, what we're talking about the executive orders one president signs and the next can reverse. but listening to the senator, i am struckc thinking about how there was always that give and take, that pull, but at the end of the day there was a pragmatism that brought the two

sides together. i'm reading sandberg's "lincoln" and it's remarkable seeing abraham lincoln at the beginning of the civil war because he knew the public wasn't there basically saying hey, this isn't about slavery. i just want to save the union. i just want to save the union. if freeing slaves saves the union, i'll save the union. if keeping slavery saves the union, i'll save the union. and when he got a chance as he moved forward he moved his position but it was always this pragmatic give and take until he realized select the emancipation proclamation. >> he understood. he said with public sentiment anything is possible. without it nothing is possible. so he knew as a leader that you had to move in step with people and then you could take a chance as he did with the emancipation proclamation he had to educate the country as to why he had the power to do that. he has the power because as commander-in-chief the slaves were being used to help the confederacy. so he had more necessity he cam

realization but he was able to use his words to mobilize public opinion. >> and words hopefully driven by the truth. i'm not trying to put you in a bad position but i want to make sure we're having a real conversation here and i'll make this easy. does the president of the united states ever push the limits of the truth? >> i think all presidents of the united states certainly push the limits of the law. >> so we're not -- >> as to whether any particular president pushes the limits of the truth, we've seen that in presidents of both political parties in recent years. that's one of the reasons why separation of powers is so important. it's one of the reasons why i wrote this book "written out of history." it warns people against the excessive accumulation of power in the hands of the few. look, we believe in trusting our neighbor but cutting the cards and nowhere is that more true than among and between the three branches of the federal government. congress was set up and designed to be the most dangerous branch. yet congress has become a timid

animal that has outsourced its authority to the other two branches. that is problem that has to be reined in. >> wouldn't you address that problem by speaking truth to power? sometimes even if it's within your own party and your president not speaking the truth? >> sure, absolutely. and? that's something i try to do everyday and one of the reasons i've spoken out against, for example, the abuse of trade authority and one of the reasons why i've pushed the global trade accountability act, one of the reasons why i pushed the r.e.i.n.s. act is to pull the power back to where it belongs, back to the people's branch. the branch of the people that is elected by the people at their most regular intervals and that's why the most dangerous powers are entrusted to congress, also one of the reasons why it's so bad when we defu diffuse those powers. >> i want to ask you about the race in your state for the next senator to join you on capitol hill. mitt romney is the favorite. he said yesterday that he did

not vote for donald trump. he said he wrote in his wife ann romney for the 2006 presidential election. >> ann would be great. i wish i would have thought of ann instead of jeb. >> she would be great. do you expect to make an endorsement in this race and why haven't you done it already? >> i expect to make an endorsement after the primary concluded. i typically don't endorse in primaries within my own state. that said the polling in this case in that particular race has been pretty strong in favor of mr. romney. the last poll i saw about a week ago had him at about 70/30. the primary is under a month away. >> so you support him to be the next senator from utah? >> i support whoever wins that primary and it appears very likely to be him. >> do you think romney would be a good senator? >> oh, sure, sure. i think mike kennedy would also be a good senator. at this point it appears overwhelmingly that the odds are with mr. romney. >> all right, the paper book

version of "written out of history" is available now. mike, thank you for being with us. senator mike lee, coming up next, we have secretary of state mike pompeo and kim jong-un's top aid meeting in new york today after dining together last night, we have nbc's andrea mitchell here to discuss the ongoing nuclear talks coming up next on "morning joe." ♪ cleaning floors with a mop and bucket is a hassle, meaning you probably don't clean as often as you'd like. for a quick and convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet. there's no heavy bucket, or mop to wring out, because the absorb and lock technology traps dirt and liquid inside the pad. it's safe to use on all finished surfaces tile, laminate and hardwood. and it prevents streaks and hazing better than a micro fiber strip mop, giving you a thorough clean the first time. for a convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet with a money back guarantee.

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secretary of state mike pompeo met with north korean vice chairman kim yong-chol last night in a government-owned apartment in new york city. pictures were provided by the state department, no press allowed in. the dinner meeting is part of the background leading to the trump/kim summit which may or may not still be on. pompeo and chol are set to have more meetings today and pompeo will speak to the press this afternoon. joining the table, we have host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell, good to have you. >> thank you, good to be here. >> what do we know about what happened at the dinner meetings. trump keeps going back and forth on whether or not this will

happen. >> >> he wants it to happen. >> do they? >> a state department official was talking to us without agreeing to be revealed but this official was telling us that the president wants to make history. yet there is a great deal of disagreement. they have a lot to discuss. they've been working on a communique in the dmz, american officials and their counterparts, experts here but in these talks they have to nail it down. there's less than two weeks left and the agreement seems to be on some sort of phased in denuclearization but what does that mean? according to the best experts, not only the cia analysis that we saw nbc was able to get briefed on the last couple days, but a former director of los alamos and his team have been there more than 30 times. they have seen the tunnels and

they have thousands and thousands of people over seven decades that are part of this arms system, nuclear and missile technology, plutonium as well as uranium. they've cheated on every other american president, everyone who's tried to make a deal so how do they get a verifiable agreement? there seems to be disagreement among the president's own team and they seem to be wavering back and forth. now it seems like a more traditional arms control agreement, each side giving a little but i would bet right now they want the summit to take place in singapore on june 12. >> were you as surprised to hear the words said out loud that the president wants to make history. that's not usual will i a starting point. >> they have been raising expectations again. what's changed since the president's letter last week breaking it off and pompeo

saying we're getting dial tones, they stood us up in singapore at the logistics meeting. what's changed, they said the letter in response from a top north korean official representing kim jong-un the letter back, this official said, we've never seen a letter like that. it was so conciliatory they realized they had screwed up by being so harsh, by dismissing vice president pence and demeaning u.s. officials and being so rhetorically tough last week that they had gone too far. >> the most important thing is the president wants to go. so if you're a betting person i would say of course it will happen. he wants to be there. it's hard to picture him with briefing books. i'm reading the whole history of korea. >> reading is not his thing. >> look, it may happen but they

still have pompeo saying on the sunday shows a few weeks ago complete denuclearization, there's no other possible ending and this may be a bit of a rock and a hard place for two sides. >> and there's a difference between the hard line from pompeo which is veering more towards the diplomatic side and bolton who is mr. regime change and also on the other side you have jim mattis who wants some kind of agreement because he and people in the pentagon know they cannot win a war. any kind of military exchange will lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths, even if it's only conventional in terms of seoul. one thing that is clear is they're nervous about president moon in south korea. they think he is too far forward. he wants it too much, he ran on this. their concern is that he is more aligned with kim jong-un now. they had that unusual saturday

get together where they met very quickly. they got together to put this thing back on track so the concern on the american side is that moon and kim jong-un are too tied together and moon could show up in singapore. there are reports the trump administration is planning to forge ahead with -- aluminum tariffs on members of the european union, that as he was going to waive the tariffs several months ago. that comes as the trade war with china that treasury secretary steve mnuchin said the u.s. was putting a hold on now seems to be ramping up. steve rattner has a look at trump's changing positions on trade -- and they do change. >> like everything else, north korea, they change and flip-flop and there's fighting among the team so let's look at trade examples to see what's going on. if you look at the steel and

aluminum tariffs that trump announced, it was supposed to be a flat tariff, then he exempted canada and mexico through the beginning of may. on march 22 he exempted the eu, argentina, australia, all these other places through may 1 and on may 23 they went into effect about half -- less than half of what he had originally planned on and then he granted a one-month extension through the beginning of june, which is tomorrow, to eu, mexico, and canada. and what we think will happen today is he was trying to get something out of the eu. eu will turn out and retaliate with its own set of tariffs and we'll have a trait war with one of our closest allies. so if you look at another trade example he had to deal with, you've seen a similar pattern of internal fighting and confusion and different policies so he started with $50 billion of tariffs on china, he tripped dun, didn't just double down, two days later he announced another $100 billion, mnuchin went on fox news and said we're

putting the trade war on hold and said we'll negotiate and then we -- a week after that we released a final list of tariffs on the imports and then navarro who is a bit of a wing nut on the trump administration said it was an unfortunate soundbite and we're back to a trade war with china. then if you look at the tpp which at the moment is dead, trump said during the election it would be a day one executive order he did that but then two days later he said he would be open to renegotiating it and he sent a punch of people off to look at the tpp and then he walked back a statement and a few days later a bunch of other countries said it's too late, you can't be in it. they went ahead with a modified version of tpp that excluded all the things we want, the 11

countries left and this was a terrible frstrategic mistake because of our need to buttress ourselves against china. so trade has been a chaotic mess and it seems like we're in trade wars with a number of different countries including our allies. >> we're not keeping our word on anything. teddy roosevelt once said the mark of a good public servant was somebody who keeps his word and never makes a promise he can't keep. this is crazy. >> it really is. >> how in the world does the state department deal with this? >> we have problems with the south china sea where they are starting to show their strength and we have excluded them from a military exercise last week. they're angry over that. then they got relief from the threat of tariffs and then we're slapped back within it on saturday wilbur ross tries to renegotiate with the chinese

when we need them to help with north korea. so things are interrelated and not only is there internal feuding among the national security team but they are at odds with what the president's own instincts are. >> and there's no sense of driving toward this objective, it's just policy by ad hoc statement and ad hoc press rele release. >> and you don't see the national economic council coordinating among themselves at the principles level which is used to be the way policies were determined in republican and democratic administrations. >> in the old, old times. >> and you have peter navarro saying one thing and steve mnuchin saying the other thing and they're having a fight in the press over what the trump administration's trade policy is. >> meanwhile, the president will change his mind. andrea mitchell, thank you so much. we'll watch "andrea mitchell reports" at noon eastern on msnbc. and doris kearns goodwin, thank

you as well. great to see you. >> thank you so much. still ahead, columnist brett stevens is here with his take on the roseanne fallout. we'll be right back. crohn's disease. you're more than just a bathroom disease. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization.

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not only did we want the logo made out of thousands of drones, we wanted to shoot that cover photo of a drone. in the history of "time" we never had a cover shot taken with a drone. >> filming with a cinema camera and a vertical still of the thousand drones making this cover in the sky. >> three, two, one, launching. animation in three, two, one, trigger. >> oh, man. check it out. >> that is insane.

that was a behind-the-scenes look of capturing the cover image of "time" magazine. a special cover called drone age. mia, good to see you, welcome to the show. >> that is so cool right there. >> extraordinary. each one is an individual drone? >> 958 drones on our cover, yes. >> amazing. we were talking there are so many ways drones have enter our lives. amazon, it's in the news business. we can have drones flying over events and war zones and other places. what is the idea behind the issue and how pervasive are they about to be in our lives? >> they are already here. they are already pervasive. there's a million registered drones with the faa. the purpose is to give readers a deep dive, a good look into ways drones are affecting our lives,

the industries they are facing and what to expect next. >> how are they shaping business and industry? >> you know, i think one of the most visible ways is hollywood. it's giving us a new perspective visually in the arts, cinema. in health care, there's an article about a company called zip line working to deliver medical supplies and blood. it's affecting agriculture, search and rescue. it's pervasive. >> they are not toys, they are for some people who go to best buy and go in the backyard. i bought one and it got lost in a tree. first flight, i lost it in the tree. i'm not harboring ill will over that. they are helping people. they are delivering medicine. >> absolutely. >> they are weapons of war, too, aren't they? >> they are. we cover that. bill has a great article that

gives a good look at that. >> mia, other than the obvious uses of drones today that people are familiar with that you ount out in the magazine, how far are we from drones become as popular as cell phones. how far are we from that? >> they are possibilities. it's an interesting question. i was talking with bill, again, about all the things you were just asking. i think, really, what we have here is a tipping point we are about to reach where drones are like cell phones. in some ways, we are already there. >> are we prepared? are there plans on the drawing board to prepare us, as a culture, a society for midair drones? they are going to happen? >> the faa is developing

regulations and so are other countries around the world. that's coming, along with the technology as it develops. they are going hand in hand. >> so, when is the time going to come when everybody has one and, given the collisions, driverless cars is another thing that seems to be on the horizon. i did not know drones were here as they were. >> what the issue does a good job of is giving a look at what industry it's being used in and a look at the industries it will touch in the future and years to come. certainly, transportation is an interesting part of the puzzle. >> is that a possibility? >> absolutely, yes. some companies are testing it in china. >> okay. >> is the intelligence community prepared for the possibility, distinct possibility that terrorist groups could use drones to drop. >> it is a big concern and something several different organizations are looking into.

>> they are barnacles hot takes. that is frightening. i'll look for the new issue, "time" magazine on the drone age. mia, thank you very much. great to have you on the show. still ahead, the latest on the investigation surrounding donald trump. "the new york times," michael schmidt joins us with the reporting on the secret memo giving the behind the scenes details of firing james comey. plus, jonathan turley says the president may reveal his possible defense, if mueller moves forward with obstruction charges. professor turley join us us with his analysis. "morning joe" is coming right back. wait what? directv gives you more for your thing. your... quitting cable and never looking back thing. directv is rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable.

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because he always gets the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed, when he books direct at choicehotels.com. or just say badda book, badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com. good morning. it's thursday, may 31st. >> can we just stop and get that in? >> what? >> willie, this spring, what a beautiful, beautiful spring if you like your skies to look like they did in the matrix. >> you will be shocked to hear, it is going to rain again this weekend. >> come on. >> only for the last three months. >> so sick of it. >> the good news is, while it rains for the weekend, at least during the week it rains. >> with us, welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have nbc capitol hill correspondent and host of

kcdc, kasie dc. good to have you back on the set. >> former treasury official and "morning joe" economic specialist, steve rattner is with us. look who is here. he doesn't smile because he's a journalist, new york times reporter, michael schmidt. >> he's so cute. >> he is actually an emotional wreck and sometimes we wish he could keep it in. >> yeah, i know. >> i'm here to confront you after you made fun of me yesterday. >> wow. okay. look at that. also with us, nbc news national political reporter, heidi. good to have you all on board this morning. a lot going on. you were great on broadway yesterday. joe was on broadway. >> very funny. >> with jimmy buffett. >> we were going wait to talk about it.

it was fun. everyone was so happy. >> mika pointed out my debut on broadway. you are wearing the exact outfit you wore the night before coaching your son. >> and the night before and the night before. >> those are your nicest sweat pants. >> those clothes could walk away. all right, everybody else is in tommy bahama, my daughter pointed out. >> people love that show. >> yeah, they were having fun. >> jimmy, very nice guy. >> lovely. very. >> there he is. >> okay. all right. put that down. let's get to the top story. the special counsel in the russia investigation obtained more information about potential obstruction of justice. "the new york times" reports former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe provided robert mueller's team of a secret memo, fearing a cover story had been hatched for the firing of james

comey. michael schmidt, take us through what we know so far. >> in the days after comey is fired, there are discussions between rod rosenstein and roger mccabe. rosenstein says trump wanted him to include russia in the letter. mccabe, obviously unnerved by this following comey, what he had done, writes a memo about this, gives it to mueller. the question is, was rosenstein saying trump said don't put, say i'm firing you because of the russia investigation because you are looking at my campaign or was he saying put in the letter that i was not under investigation in the russia investigation and thank you for telling me three times that i was not -- >> again, again, while we don't know, that fits everything that happened in the weeks beforehand, that he was obsessed with comey telling him, you are

not a part of our russian investigation. >> comey had time and time again, at congressional hearings to say the president wasn't under investigation and he would not do that. he was telling trump this in private, but he would not do it privately. trump called him several times. comey told trump to go through the justice department on this. comey was concerned about being out there on his own again, off the election. he didn't want to go that far. interestingly as comey said on the book tour, the fbi general counsel at the time disagreed with comey's assessment that trump was not under investigation. the general counsel thought trump, because he was in charge of the campaign and they were looking at the campaign was part of the investigation. >> it's been ongoing with him, being part of the russia investigation. nobody's been able to tell him, definitively, you are not part of the investigation. of course, at the same time, they don't have a smoking gun to

suggest it. it has been murky from the beginning. even now, there's suggestion he is not definitively part of the russian investigation for collusion because they still don't know what paul manafort is going to say. how can they make that determination. >> the president's former lawyer, john dowd told him, before he was fired this spring, he was not a target of the investigation, just a subject. part of a group of folks whose behavior was being looked at, but no plans to charge him in that sense. from some folk's account, the president was happy to hear that, he was not a target. that gave him comfort. since then, he's not had a lot of comfort because he's lashed out. >> that's the interesting thing. even as rudy giuliani is saying he is not part of the investigation, donald trump continues to lose his mind every

day on twitter. >> yeah, he won't stop talking about it, including yesterday. the timing of this makes sense, mccabe's letter. if you think of the other statements president trump made in may of 2017, i think it was may 11th, the interview with lester holt, he says he fired comey because of the russia thing and then he says i relieved pressure off our relationship getting the russia thing off the table. mueller has this memo right now. what does it tell you about mueller's investigation where he's looking, specifically? >> it shows the sort of depth and breath of the obstruction questions. you know, there are the comey questions. there are also the sessions' questions. the other issue here, which we haven't touched on is the fact that rosenstein is the person overseeing the investigation. we are talking about his behavior as part of the comey firing, which led to mueller being appointed, rosenstein overseeing it all.

today, in the hot seat because of that. >> you mentioned sessions. president trump went to bed last night with the u.s. attorney general on his mind. >> always on his mind. >> the sessions obsession. tweeting a quotation at 11:21 eastern time, the recusal of jeff sessions was an unforced betrayal of the president of the united states. you know what? >> come on. >> the former u.s. attorney, who just appeared on fox news, thanks. that's amazing. just let that sit for a second. sessions was spotted leaving the white house yesterday at the president president's singled him out. where does joe go after donald trump leaves to get any part of his reputation back? he would be the only attorney in the united states of america that would probably have the audacity to go on television and say that jeff sessions had any

other choice, legally or ethically. but to recuse himself from an investigation that he was a part of because of troubling testimony he gave on capitol hill. again, you just wonder how low will these people go? how much will they declown themselves just so donald trump will watch them on fox news and throw a tweet out? by the way, for people at home, this is not a close call. this is a guy rounding third base, a catcher standing at home like this with a ball. the guy walking up and tagging him. you talk to any lawyer in your hometown that you trust, that's nonpartisan and ask if jeff sessions had any choice but to recuse himself, the answer, clearly, no. no, he had no choice. joe and donald j. trump

declowning themselves and making a mockery of ethics and the rule of law. >> look, it's interest thag sessions and rosenstein, whatever else sessions has done on immigration, on criminal sentencing and things we may not agree with, on this issue, he's gone by the book, recusing himself and rosenstein handling it. one question, does trump understand how recusal works and why he did it or sessions workss for him so he can do whatever he wants. you have people piggy backing on this destroying their own reputation. >> he's jeff sessions as he saw michael cohen, somebody to use, then throw away. >> but, somebody who would do exactly what he said because he worked for him. >> i love you boss. >> the fact that trump doesn't understand how it works is no excuse for people like know not understanding how it works. you have people out there getting reputations. >> maybe you find that person on

capitol hill. >> you know who that person was that donald trump said was the smartest, greatest senator? he and everybody around him said, perhaps the smartest person they ever met, told him he could have any cabinet position he wanted. none other than jeff. he was the smartest man in all of washington, d.c. he was brilliant up until the moment he actually did what every attorney in america would have to do ethically. >> which turned out to be an original sin, apparently, from this president. you know, michael schmidt, one detail in your story, this may seem as though roseenstein, mccabe was worried rosenstein was covering for the president, there was a fight between mccabe

and rosenstein that suggests rosenstein has the president's back more than the president seems to perceive it. is that what you are reporting? >> certainly at the time. there's so much that has happened with rosenstein since then. some think it shows rosenstein is independent and willing to let mueller go and do what he wants to do or things, more recently, with this confidential source where rosenstein bent to the president's desires, asked the attorney general to look into the accusations there was a spy in the campaign when he knew it wasn't true. he's had a difficult position to thread between trying to keep the president at bay and protecting the mueller investigation. the good news for sessions is by recusing himself, he was able to go off in bulgaria last week on a trip. >> wash my hands of that. >> still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump is condemning the situation involving roseanne. but roseanne or her racist

tweet. rather that he hasn't received an apology from abc. we are going to try to follow that on "morning joe." first, try to follow the forecast, it's horrendous. just like bill karins. >> the rain is finally ended in areas of the blue ridge mountains in virginia. it poured last night. it's over for now. the ground is so saturated, when we get the next round of storms this afternoon, we are going to do it all over again. 8 million people at risk of flash flooding. the timing of this appears to be after the evening rush hour. we get through much of the day, cloudy, murky weather, hit and miss showers. the bigger storms 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 and into the evening hours. they don't move quickly. that's when you have a chance of flash flooding. as far as severe weather, this is going to blow through. wind damage is the biggest concern.

14 million people at ris income missouri through kentucky. they could clip you in nashville later tonight. if you are not getting the storms, you are hot. it is warm in texas. it's been this way, it's going to stay this way. 90 degrees plus for 49 million people. watch as the heat begins to grow. by the time you get to friday, we spread it north. 73 million people will be 90 degrees or warmer. potential record highs today, you think it's hot where you are. check out lubbock at 103. midland, texas could be the hottest spot in the country at 107 already here at the end of may. geez. what's june have in store for texas? you are watching "morning joe." new york city, you are one of those areas that's going to get wet weather especially friday. we'll be right back. you've tried moisturizer after moisturizer

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i'm going to give heidi the

task of explain whag rudy giuliani said. he commented on the state of preparations for a potential interview between president trump and robert mueller. giuliani says he has done both in person and by phone sessions with the president. he says he is doing the q & a to emg kate me. giuliani says i want to know what i can say that's not privileged and what i can say that is privileged. the president's lawyer appeared to push mueller on a september 1st complexion deadline. >> that's not going to happen. >> 11 days ago, that's for the media, giuliani said mueller said he hoped to wrap up the investigation of the president by then. yesterday, giuliani seemed to suggest it was the trump legal team's deadline for mueller to retain his credibility. >> put together whatever the heck they have. interview or no interview by september 1st, they should have

an explanation. i really want that because i don't think he has much. >> the president said he is going to meddle -- >> if he doesn't, whoever files a report by september 1st, mid-september -- >> what's important, though, when you look at the calendar, robert mueller is not going to want to drop bombshells. >> he's not giving tips to rudy. >> he's not going to drop bombshells in september to affect the election the way james comey helped elect donald trump two years ago dropping that bombshell in october. i'm sure if they could wrap up one faze by early september, they would love to do that. you are not going to see a lot of surprises in october. they need to go through it and wait until after the election or probably drop something in september. >> heidi, do you think that bob mueller and rudy giuliani are

having deep conversations, exchanging information on time lines and thinking rudy might be overstepping the boundaries of truth again here? >> while giuliani is insisting that is a possibility for the president to sit for an interview, he is throwing down so many conditions that serve as stalling tactics that, like joe says, this is inevitably going to get pushed off. look at what he is doing here. he is saying, first of all, this past week that he wants to look at, personally, the department of justice documents used to brief lawmakers. not going to happen. secondly, he's saying that the conversations between the president and any public official should be viewed as privileged and off limits. who does that include? comey. it includes all the material you just discussed from michael schmidt's story with rosenstein. all these things they are selling to the base as

reasonable are just not going to happen in the course of this investigation considering that obstruction is one of the major lines here of probing. secondly, on sessions, i want to weigh in on this because to the loyalty question, guys, i was on the plane with sessions just totally co-incidentally right after the "access hollywood" tape had broken. i can vounlg, there is no official who is more loyal. he was the only surrogate with a hoard of media willing to stand there and take questions and stand behind this president when everyone else, including reince priebus was heading for the exit. >> and mike pence, running for the hills and making statements and going quiet. you name it. everybody around him was running for the hills. >> talk about loyalty. don't forget, jeff sessions stood on stages with donald trump when the proposition he

would become president of the united states was absurd. jeff sessions -- >> he was wearing the hat. >> mobile, alabama. >> he gave cover for other senators to fall in. talk about loyalty, no one from the beginning has been more loyal than jeff sessions has. coming up, mike barnicle joins us with hot topics of the morning. wait what? directv gives you more for your thing. your... quitting cable and never looking back thing. directv is rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable.

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president trump weighed in on the controversy surrounding roseanne barr and the decision to cancel her show. >> as i predicted, he made it about himself and didn't talk about racism or the joke. the president tweeted bob,ger of abc called valerie jarrett to let her know that abc does not tolerate comments like those. he never called donald trump to apologize for the statements made and said about me on abc. maybe i just didn't get the call? white house press secretary -- >> wait, wait, wait. that begs the question, when was bob iger supposed to call and apologize? he's supposed to call after donald trump launched his

campaign, suggesting that mexicans were rapists or maybe later in 2015 after the muslim ban or in 2016 when, mike, when -- when he pretended he didn't know who david duke was, didn't know the ku klux klan did anything wrong or in 2017 when he defended white supremacists or 2018 when he called hispanics breeders. when is bob iger supposed to apologize to donald trump for reporters reporting the horrific racist things this man said for four years now? >> bob iger has a terrifically brilliant, smart idea of public relations, how to react. you don't react. you don't reply to the president of the united states. this leads to another hot take.

>> hey, alex. alex? >> yep, yep. >> we need a fire on the stage, mike's hot stake or barnacle's burning take. can you work on that? >> we have the people with kacie hunt. >> kids, this is his second hot take. not hot flash. >> that's not a hot flash. >> go. >> this is out of the hypocrisy file. the president of the united states, so consumed with colin kaepernick and the nfl players saying get those sons of -- off the field. it's a direct quote. he calls roseanne barr, who did the most unpatriotic thing you have ever seen at a ball game, her rendition of the national anthem in san diego years ago, where she ends it with an ob sen

physical gesture, he says nothing about this woman. >> it doesn't work for him. doesn't help him with his base, i guess. i don't know. white house press secretary -- >> you must be tired of the hot takes. >> press secretary sarah sanders later defended the president's grievance. >> the president calling out the media bias. no one is defend whag she said. the president is president of all americans and focused on doing what is best for our country. >> after roseanne tried to defend the comments blaming ambien, the drug maker tweeted this, this is from the maker of ambien. people of all races, religion work here to improve the lives of people around the world. while all pharmaceuticals have side effects, racism is not a side effect of any medication. >> you are always asking me, can

you tell me a story. >> oh, no. >> i don't like to do that. >> please don't tell. >> the old-timers at nbc will remember this. mel gibson was pulled over for -- >> no, that was -- >> and he started making racial slurs at the police officers that pulled him over. >> i thought that was alcohol. >> yeah, he was drunk. we, on scarborough country, we had to talk to a lot of lawyers to do this. >> terrible, joe. i don't like it. >> i get one of my people to start drinking. >> live. >> we have a new jersey sheriff there. he add min strministered the brr test and he would drink and drink until his alcohol level went up to different levels. we would ask, any antisemetic

feelings? it's the same thing with ambien, mika, which caused you to walk downstairs and eat an entire nutella. >> and roam the neighborhood. >> they acknowledge it does that. >> my kids said it made me nice to the other parents, so. don't remember. coming up, jonathan turley says it president's attacks aren't just about anger and pair know nou ya but defense to obstruction charge. he explains that next on "morning joe." picking the right style takes time.

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♪ okay. president trump is tweeting on

his decision to fire former fbi director, james comey. should we read it? >> yeah. >> willie, you got it? you got it? >> you want me to read it? >> yeah. >> not that it matters, but i never fired james comey because of russia. the corrupt mainstream media loves to push that narrative, but they know it is not true. well, here is what the president of the united states, we'll remind you again for the 3 millionth time told lester holt may 11 of last year. >> regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. >> joining us now, columnist for "the new york times" jonathan turley. good morning. brett, let's start with the

president's tweet, demonstratively false. >> i was telling mike before we went on set, this is the presidency because i'm always tripping on what the president has to say. what's so striking is, it's not just that the president forgot he said a little thing. it's a prime time interview with lester holt and what triggered the investigation in the first place. you can't get more boldfaced than this line that calls into question the president's honesty or mental fitness or both. >> it's an extraordinary thing. we shouldn't be surprised to have a piece of video tape the president knows is out there and we have been playing it for over a year and still go out and proclaim that, hoping people forgot about it or are willing to twist it in a way that works. >> it's been the case long

before politics, when he was in real estate, the president's insight is the truth is whatever people will let you get away with. really, the question here is, is the republican party going to let him get away with this? is mike pence? is congress? are they going to use the usual yu euphemisms? >> yeah, they are. your point is very well taken. it's so clear that the president, here, is going to tell his supporters this is reality. >> right. >> it's not going to matter that we can play that video clip right after. >> donald trump, in large part, has been formed, his thinking has been formed because of the noted cultural ant poll gist, the late rich art pryor. are you going to believe me or your lying dash eyes. that's what he said. >> i thought you were going to

say roy cohen. >> jonathan turley, in usa today, donald trump's clever plan to foil an obstruction of justice charge, you write, in part, this -- that latest report of the expanding investigation into obstruction of justice by president trump follows a disturbing pattern of self-inflicted wounds. trump, allegedly called attorney general jeff sessions to mar-a-lago in march, 2017, to berate him before recusing himself from the russian investigation and demand that he unrecuse himself. such a request would be as improper ethically as grammatically. ha is striking is the trump camp's response to the story and what it shows about the most viable defense to any case on alleged obstruction against donald trump. a type of justified self-defense. the challenge for trump's counsel is develop a defense where such self-defeating acts become acts of self-defense.

professor turley, asking someone to unrecuse themselves, that alone has issues. i mean, how much more do we need to hear the president say himself or in testimony made by jeff sessions himself at some point that will show this president was trying to obstruction something, maybe for his own ego, but he was trying to stop something from happening, was he not? >> that's going to be the challenge of his counsel. if they have to find a way to take these acts that they are not denying. one of the interesting things about giuliani's appearances, he didn't deny these facts. he didn't deny sessions was brought to mar-a-lago, berated and told to unrecuse himself. the test is how do you thread the needle and have a defense? that defense is being whittled down to one. that is, trump can argue that during the campaign, early in

his administration, he was really campaigning against the justice department as well as other agencies. particularly the justice department and he viewed it as a hostile agency. i think his claim is going to be that he was not against the investigation as much as he was against what he viewed as a conspiracy or an unfair effort to derail his presidency. so, he, i think, is going to argue that he wanted sessions in that spot, as a guarantee that this investigation is not going to be a trap. now, many people will find that unconvincing. what it does is moves away from the acts and focuses on the motivation. don't fool yourself, he could win on the motivation. he could thread this needle. >> professor turley, we have two parallel tracks here. the president of the united states and his attorney, i guess we are calling him, rudy giuliani, are arguing in the court of public opinion. they are trying to undermine

whatever comes out from bob mueller, whatever the fbi is looking at, whatever the justice department has to offer. i don't know if they have conceded this is not going to end well for them. it seems like, legally, they are not on good footing. they are not on good footing with bob mueller, so they want to be with the public. when the mueller probe, the findings are released, they can say we told you all along they are not to be tresed or believed. >> this legal team is not subtle. they play poker with the cards facing out. giuliani said they were shifting to an impeachment strategy. that is understandable because that is the most likely scenario where the president could be in danger. there is still a prosecutor in the field and he is still pursuing obstruction, as we have seen collusion fall away a bit, obstruction seems to be much on the mind of mueller. so, while having impeachment can

make some sense, you also have to look out for the live torpedo in the water. mueller could still pursue them if they refuse to testify to subpoena the president. he could play "hardball" and insist the president appear in a grand jury without a lawyer. all those things are exto sensual threats. >> brett, your latest column for "the new york times" is right about roseanne. it's trending on twitter. it's a great piece. the intelligence defense of free speech should not rest on the notion we should tolerate every form of speech. the show is supposed to help explain and humanize trump's base to a frequently unsemp thetic and uncomprehending public. through her tweet, barr managed to do so all too well. perhaps the reason trump voters are the subject of characterture

is they frequently conform to type. that's a sweeping statement. let's hear from them on this. presumably, something other than mutter excuses and what aboutism of a political movement that is capable of saying and doing anything except look at itself in the eye. yeah, on so many levels. i find the president had an opportunity here that he missed. >> as he always does because he has that trademark combination of nastiness and juvenile self-pity. >> as steve schmidt pointed out, a stone cold racist would not stand out against racism. roseanne barr and donald trump are the proverbial peas in a pod, in terms of one is clearly the racial an mouse. their beliefs, horrendous

beliefs about former members of the obama administration but that unhinged quality that likes to let loose on twitter. what i was trying to do, mika, i think all of us are strong free speech advocates and wrestle on the question of where do you draw the line between speech that is just so horrific, like what roseanne said about valerie jarrett that you have to take action and what you try to, you know, the space you try to create that says people say all kinds of things. she was a clear case of crossing that line. >> i's not that she is being arrested. abc expressed they don't want someone who speaks or tweets like that working for their company. she has every right to say what she wants. abc has every right not to have her. she has been fired as well as all the people who work on that show. all the people who worked on that show are paying the price

for roseanne's ability to have free speech and her decision to use it in a racist way. >> you are right. abc used its own rights, absolutely in accordance with its values, its responsibility and reputation. >> free speech recognized all within the law. >> the one thing i find clarifying and, in some ways appreciating about the episode is the line was so clearly crossed. it was so black and white, not to, you know? >> yeah. >> we have gotten used to this president shading everything, you know, walking up to the line, crossing it and talking to himself saying he didn't cross it, but giving politicians and other supporters space to say well, maybe he didn't mean that. maybe i don't have to weigh in or say anything about this. no. in this case -- >> you do. >> -- it's so clear cut, there's no way out of it. >> when they say other

presidents are bad, too, it's not an answer. when a question is clear about president trump and racism. when it's clear about president trump and lying. when a question is clear about president trump and really stretching the limits of our democratic norms, it's a question that you should be able to answer in this day and age or you are not showing leadership. >> we have said time and again if this man were a ceo of any fortune 500 company, he would be fired. if a fortune 500 ceo accused his panics of breeding, of being breeders, talking about them like they are dogs, they would be fired today. immediately. >> yeah. >> they preach moral equivalency between neonazi. if they suggested mexicans are

rapists. we could go on and on. this, actually, is, again, donald trump living in his -- you know, the funny thing is, if he said any of those things while on "the apprentice" he would have been fired. >> where are the outtakes. >> that is a good question, where are the outtakes of "the apprentice"? >> on one outtake, he is talking about grabbing women by their private parts. >> president obama talked about teaching moments. he was a professor, this is what he did. sometimes it was grading, every moment is a teachable moment. at least he was trying to turn these instances into lessons about civic morality. for the president, every moment like this is a moment for narcissism. it's a moment for political opportunity. it's a moment for personal

aggrievement and the aggrievement of everyone that is on his side. it's the way he progressively poisons our public culture. >> correct. >> really quick, conservatives have. if you look at the writers of the national review, others, eric erickson. most conservatives i know have spoken out aggressively. >> they have been agins him for a while. it's not the trump conservatives. that's who we need to hear from. brett stephens, thank you very much. we will read your column in the new york times. jonathan turley, your piece on trump's legal strategy is in today's usa today. >> what should we be looking for in the days and weeks ahead? >> one of the issues is the ig report that is going to hit. i think the white house is putting a lot of stake in that report and it might undermine, particularly james comey.

the other issue is how this plays out in terms of the interview. will he sit down with mueller? if he doesn't, this is going to change very, very quickly and going to change in a way that i don't think will play well for the white house. i think they are beginning to realize that. you see giuliani attacking back saying, let's try to negotiate a sit-down. >> all right. thank you very much professor turley. our next guest is known for a single word. >> goal!

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coverage. a tournament that will not have the united states, will not have chile, will not have -- >> the netherlands. >> here it goes. it will have messi, it will have brazil, germany, spain, france. >> so why don't we start with brazil. brazil, always a favorite. gets absolutely waxed. i still can't believe what i saw the germans do to them last time, 7-1. are they going to bounce back? >> i think they might make it all the way to the final. they're clear favorites in my view. they're not as dependent on neymar as argentina is on messi. they're unbeaten. they play cohesively very, very well. i think they're the big favorite. >> so their problemsters are past? >> oh, yes. the new coach, which took over halfway through world cup

qualifying, just turned that national team around, and i think he will probably be there. in my prediction, all the way to the semifinals for sure. >> you're talk about argentina loaded again as well? >> well, argentina doesn't have such a strong squad but it's got the best player in the world. can he carry the team to greatness to win the world cup as he did four years ago? we'll see. that's one of the biggest story lines of this fifa world cup. >> who's the stronger team in europe, france or germany? >> i think it's probably spain. >> still spain? >> yes. >> aren't they getting a little long in the tooth? >> no. they found some new players. they're very exciting. very up and coming. they have a great team altogether. we will see what they can do. they have, you know, youth and experience. germany is very, very tough. they're looking to repeat. and france has very good team as well. >> i was going to ask you to settle the debate, of who's the best player in the world, messi

or ronaldo. but you said messi. >> overall, i think he's better. the comparison doesn't do both of them any good. i think they're both great players. but i think messi has more skills. of course ronaldo's just a great finisher, a great overall player. he's very, very good. it's like the big discussion, who's better, lebron or michael jordan. they're both, you know, greats -- >> so the big loss for egypt. he's one of the greatest in the world, isn't he? >> he certainly is. he had a great season at liverpool. apparently i read reports yesterday that he might be available for egypt's third game if he gets well. but, you know, they're going to take him to the world cup nonetheless. >> so the finals start in two weeks. the finals are going to be held in russia. what other countries sought to have the finals other than the winner, russia? >> the 2019 was contested

between spain and morocco i believe and russia was awarded by unanimous vote of the fifa executive committee. >> is the united states ever thought of as a valid place to hold the finals? >> of course. i mean, two days before the world cup begins, we will know if the world cup will be played in the u.s. alongside canada and mexico. it's three countries bidding for the world cup in 2026. the vote will be june 13th, the day before the world cup starts. always the greatest country in the world. the infrastructure. it's competing against more congrecongress morocco that doe have the infrastructure we have here. so hopefully in 2026. >> what's the chances that the '22 world cup is taken away from qatar or do you think we'll watch world cups played in 130 degrees? >> well, they moved it to winter

so 110. >> and you'll blow all the league play. >> well, i'm pretty sure they will keep it in qatar. qatar, you know, is building stadiums. it's going to be a very nice world cup. it's a very tiny country compared to russia, has 11 cities to travel from one to the other is very hectic. it's like having it in the u.s. in qatar, we will have all 11 stadiums within, you know, driving distance. >> really quickly in closing, how quickly will the english squad break the hearts of everybody? >> i don't know. i think they're going to make it through to the next round there with belgium, tunisia and panama. i like belgium in that group to win the group and england coming in second. we will see. they have a good youth team, but we will see where england can go this time around. >> teltelemundo's coverage begi on june 13th. andres, thank you for being

here. that's like asking a comedian to be funny. it's unprofessional. >> you got to have it within the context of the game. >> you don't ask jimmy buffet to play "margaritaville." come on. >> no, we don't. >> final thoughts? >> my final thought is reflection on what you were talking about in terms of how congress used to operate, used to operate more in the premise of friendships than partisanship. too bad we don't have that today. >> the president's tweet just a few minutes ago saying russia did not play a factor in the firing of james comey. easily refuted by the sound bite with lester hold from may 11th, 2017. >> also, i mean, gee, sort of a perry mason moment where the person breaks down and cries on the stand. he admitted in front of russia's foreign minister and russia's ambassador to the united states actually just said got rid of comey. that's going to take a lot of pressure off of us. the stupid russia investigation. he was a nut case. >> yes.

>> that's a drop the mic moment. >> absolutely. the enemy of president trump is not bob mueller, it's this democrat, donald j. trump, and his mouth. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika, thanks, joe. good morning, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today starting with saving the summit. secretary of state mike pompeo will appear with a top north korean official for a second day of talks as the june 12th summit hangs in balance. >> the conversation is going to be focused on denuclearization of the peninsula. >> an inside look. a new report reveals former acting fbi director andrew mccabe wrote a secret memo detailing the firing of james comey. that memo now in the hands of special counsel mueller. >> the question of what was the president's intent in firing jim comey is at the heart of what