hours of the morning still call to mary bennett, reading the bible and waiting for dawn while the whole wide world is fast asleep. good morning. i'm dara brown in new york at msnbc world head quarters. 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. here's what is happening. secret memo revealed. president trump's legal team argued he has complete power over justice investigations. but does the president really have the power to put an end to the russia probe? and the hard line. no signs of denuclearization, no sanctions relief. >> north korea will receive relief only when it demonstrates a verifiable and inreversible step to denuclearization. >> the secretary of defense gives his take when it comes to talks with north korea. and on the stump.

candidates make a last-minute push ahead of tuesday's california primaries while one former attorney general may have his eye on the white house in 2020. but we begin with new insight into the 20-page letter the trump legal team wrote and hand-delivered to special counsel robert mueller back in january as part of their efforts to argue among several issues that the president is incapable of obstructing justice and that he can't be subpoenaed. one of "the new york times" reporters who broke the story says the legal team's argument that president trump had no criminal intent in any of his actions is flawed. here's charlie savage on msnbc last night. >> this goes to the quality of the legal advice the president is getting from the lawyer who is are willing to work for him. they have a lot of arguments that center on a sort of technical legalistic parsing of a statute of obstruction of justice. the problem is that is an

outstanding obstruction of justice law. way back in 2002 as part of the act after the enron accounting scandals, congress closed the loophole that if someone interfered with the witness or destroyed evidence early on because they thought it may lead to legal trouble because the fbi just started looking at it but had not gotten very far they could get away with it. all the arguments were focused on, well, there was an fbi investigation or they didn't know -- they are totally beside the point. and it is remarkable that lawyers who ared a viszi ed a president didn't know that. >> just hours after that story broke, rudy giuliani ramped up threats against mueller telling nbc news if mueller tries to subpoena us, we're going to court. president trump who is spending the weekend at camp david fired off a tweet minutes before the story was published accusing the special counsel and the justice department of leaking that letter to "the new york times." let's bring in julie manchester

and aussie barretts from politico. what do you make of the timing of this leak? >> well, the biggest beneficiary is probably the public, but anyone looking for more information on what is happening here or better understanding of what is happening inside of trump's legal team, as you know, there's been a lot of confusion, especially when giuliani came out and made statements and had to correct the misstatements about the misstatements. so getting a better idea of what is actually happening inside of the legal apparatus that is advising the president, everyone is getting a better understanding how they are strategizing and thinking about this. ultimately, it will not give clarity on that front. >> is there any way to see if the letter had an impact on the investigation between late january and now? >> we'll have to see, but one thing that really sticks out in the letter that hasn't

necessarily been covered fully is the fact that president trump, it was revealed he dictated the letter after the trump tower meeting with donald trump jr. and the russian lawyer back in 2016. and i think that is going to have a huge impact on the investigation. but to azi's point, this is another public relations strategy by the president's legal team in an effort to discredit mueller's investigation. i think right now they are essentially trying to say the president has the power to -- he can't legally obstruct justice. however, they say this could possibly lead to the fact that they are saying, essentially, he -- i think some people could say he looks like he's above the law. however, they say that in the letter he's not necessarily above the law. so i think it's a little too early to tell how this will publicly affect the investigation. however, this is their strategy at this point.

>> and azi, i want to go to a point that julia made because the letter does confirm that president trump played a role in writing that letter on air force one about the june 2016 trump tower meeting. so let me play you some previous comments, including one by jay segalow, one of the lawyer that is wrote the letter to mueller. take a listen. >> the president was not involving in the drafting of the statement. it came from donald trump jr. donald trump jr. said the same thing, it was from him and his lawyer was in consultation. >> he certainly didn't dictate, but like i said, he weighed in and offered a suggestion like any father would do. >> azi, how did we go from the denials last summer to their admission in the 20-page let her? >> when your client isn't being honest with you, most lawyers would fire that client. clearly, lying to the president or the press is not illegal.

whether or not you consider yourself under oath or anything, those comments are actually considered very legalistically bound. so therefore you cannot deviate. now they are getting more information out of the president, they are getting a better understanding of what he did. saying that he dictated, which is a very clear word, that statement. it puts the president, essentially, in that room. and now investigators have the opportunity to follow the trail right back to the white house. but having a press secretary sort of give misstatements to reporters, having a lawyer go on television and say whatever they said, those are not legally bound. >> and julie, even if president trump wins the legal battle against the subpoena, for example, is this letter to mueller about the political aspect of the investigation? >> absolutely. the timing of this is essential because it comes right before, well, not necessarily right before, but before the 2018 midterm elections. and if the president's legal team is wrapped up in this

battle of if he's going to be subpoenaed or not, this could affect the public perception of all of this ahead of the midterms. as we know, republicans and the president do not want to be battling this subpoena ahead of the election. they would rather be focused on issues such as the economy and defense and jobs. so the timing of all of this is essential. and like i said before, this public relations campaign is -- this is why it's happening right now. >> julie manchester and azi paybarah, stay here as we have more to discuss. james mattis said sanctions relief is off the table for north korea for now. he's in singapore ahead of the planned summit between president trump and north korean leader kim jong-un. the pentagon correspondent hans nichols is in singapore with the latest. hans, what did secretary mattis have to say about the road ahead? >> reporter: well, mattis is not that optimistic about the road ahead. his quote was to expect a few bumps, that was just this morning. in general, what mattis is

trying to do here is frame the parameters, say what is on limits and off limits. what is clearly off limits for the u.s. secretary of defense is removing and having part of the negotiations removing u.s. troops from south korea. so listen to how mattis said it when he was tempering expectations. >> our objective remains as stated by minister madura, the complete verifiable and irreversible denuclearization and the removal of all wmd on the korean peninsula. we can anticipate it best and bump by road to the negotiation. >> reporter: now, the idea that there would not be any sort of conversations about removing sanctions, lifting sanctions until there's the complete and verifiable denuclearization of the korean peninsula is something new. we have heard from president trump over the last 48 hours that he is open to taking this slowly. he wants to make sure that the north koreans feel comfortable, but what mattis is clearly indicating is he will not have

any relief of sanctions, what president trump is now no longer calling maximum pressure until you have some sort of steps by the north koreans. and as he said, complete steps. one undercurrent to this summit has been the difference in posture between the japanese and the south koreans. when you heard mattis speaking there, he was surrounded by south korean and japanese counter parts. when you listen to what the officials from the two countries say as they have been shadowing each other around this summit here, it's very clear that there's some daylight between the japanese and the south koreans. the japanese are much more skeptical of kim jong-un's intentions and the south koreans seem to be a little more amenable to them. one quick thing, they are still working on the logistics of how to put together the summit and where it might be. dara? >> hans, what preparation is the president doing for this upcoming summit? >> reporter: well, look, the president obviously has his team of advisers that are talking, having briefing him. what we saw from the oval office

meeting, though, is that the president's making snap decisions. the president isn't taking a lot of time listening to his advisers. we know that simply because of the timeline. he was in there with the north korean delegate, the envoy delivering that letter, shortly after that meeting concluded. you saw the president go out to the cameras and say, look, i think their intentions are clean, they are pure, there's enough for us to continue to talk. so this isn't -- there's not a whole lot of negotiations, excuse me, consultation on the u.s. side, before the president is making a dezigs. >> -- decision. >> hans nichols, thank you. i want to bring back julie and azi. is it clear what page the president is on and how this is going to play out? >> it is interesting, president trump is playing by his own playbook. we'll look back to the art of the deal and he's very much trying to appeal to kim jong-un and the north koreans after temporarily stepping away a few weeks ago. however, i think secretary

mattis is taking a much more hard line approach. i think he realizes that north korea is a very -- is a very unpredictable partner in all of this. and secretary mattis has been dealing with north korea in a different capacity for much longer than president trump has. so he has a different perspective on this. but one thing i would like to bring up is the fact that several experts said when north korea supposedly destroyed the nuclear facilities, there's experts saying this was not necessarily real and that it could have been staged. so i think the pentagon is keeping a very close eye on this just because north korea has such a reputation for being so unpredictable. so i think they're almost playing on two different fronts at this point, trying to be -- have a flattering campaign and be a bit more negotiableable. however, at the same time, keeping the best interests at hand. >> and azi, with just nine days to go, what will you be looking at over the next few days to get a sense of what the summit will look like? >> anything from secretary

mattis is basically going to be the floor of what the u.s. administration is going to accept. and anything, i think, coming from the south korean president will sort of be the ceiling, the more optimistic end. the president as hans has said is sort of winging this in many respects. he's not really talking to his advisers. and it's really about stage craft. that's what i'm looking for. >> azi paybarah and julie manchester, stay with us. we have more to discuss on the state of the nation. the report of the newly-released secret memo calls into powers of the presidency. this is something the supreme court could be asked to decipher. that's up next. u've ever met. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. it's about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. invented in boston, made and sold around the world.

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our top story today, "the new york times" reportson a

confidential memo september nt president back in january to his legal team. one is that the president could not haveommitted obstruction of justice because he has unfettered authority over all investigations. here's how a former water gate prosecutor responded to that last night. >> the bottom line is, trump's got pretty bad legal talent. first of all, the whole idea that he can't be charged with obstruction of justice, the last time that ever happened in this country was when we were ruled by keaton george. that's what the whole rule of law is about. >> let's see who is right. joining me is former prosecutor glenn kershner. does the president have unfettered obligation over all the investigations? >> good morning, thank you for having me. that's a good question. the president's powers are broad and sweeping under the constitution. yes, he can pardon people for any number of reasons. or no reason at all. yes, he can fire the director of the fbi.

yes, he can order that investigations be closed. but all of those decisions should he make them could have repercussions. because the special counsel could look behind the decisions and see what his intent was. did he have a corrupt purpose? was he trying to protect himself, his family members, his supporters? so it is very broad and sweeping power, but it doesn't mean that when he exercises it, he is completely immune from examination as to why he exercised those powers. >> and let's talk about the boundaries. is this something the supreme court could do and put definite powers on the supreme court and the president? >> the president will take this upon himself. the president is subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury as part of the mueller team's probe. and, you know, i had an opportunity last night to read through a little bit more carefully the 20-page document issued by the president's defense team. and i have to say, it reads a

lot more like a long tweet than it does a legal document. and as i sort of sat with that letter for a while, it seems to me the president's legal team is attempting to do two things. one, they are clearly attempting to win the argument in the court of public opinion. and in the event that this sort of sad chapter in our history moves toward impeachment, the court of public opinion is obviously going to be very important. but the more time i spent with the letter, i think he's trying to set up a second thing that will be pretty consequential. and that is, he is determined, his legal team is determined to say the president can't be subpoenaed before the grand jury. but dara, we need to take a step back and and t fundamental question, why can't he voluntarily sit down with mueller's team and be interviewed? i know his legal team argues he doesn't have time, but he could forego one round of golf and sit

down with mueller's team and give a voluntary interview. and that sort of wipes away the issue of sort of the boundaries of a criminal subpoena. >> and also, all that time spent back and forth dealing with this. but regarding the special counsel interviewing the president, "the new york times" writes, mr. mueller, the president's attorneys argued, needs to prove that the president is the only person who can give him the information he seeks and that he has exhausted all other avenues for getting it. would this type of argument hold up in court? >> you know, i don't think it would. i mean, clearly, the president's duties are waity and all-consuming. that's the argument made time and again by the office of legal counsel in the opinion memos that olc put out in both 1973 and in 2000. now, it's important to remember that the office of legal counsel is an organization within the department of justice. so the president is ultimately

the head of and in charge of olc. that's not to suggest that the olc opinion is in any way unfair or improper. but, you know, institutional pressures often come into play when an agency is making a decision about whether its own leader can be subjected to sort of a criminal proceeding. but balance against the olc opinion that a sitting president, for example, can't be indicted, are the supreme court cases that are very closely related. and that is u.s. versus nixon and clinton versus jones. and both of them suggest that will, you know what? a sitting president, busy though he may be, is really not above the law, imperial tweets to the contrary knot not withstanding. >> glenn, thank you for breaking it down.

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renewed speculation over whether eric holder will run in 2020. here's what he told reporters at an event in new hampshire on friday. >> first and foremost, can i win? i wouldn't be involved or do something simply to make a statement. i would only decide to get involved in the race if i thought that i could win. >> let's bring back julie manchester and azi paybarah.

it is too early for 2020, but would democrats want eric holder to run? >> it's hard to see that. it is much bette for a person to be thinking about running than to take it off the table and have fewer reporters show up to their breakfast events in new hampshire. it looks like something he's using in order to push the agenda of redistributing and putting some issues on the table, but it's kind of hard to see how someone at 67 years old who doesn't have the kind of charismatic, kind of figure, to demand attention to make a big dent in that race. >> julia, how do you see it? >> yeah, i think it is too early to tell whether progressives and democrats would like him to run, but i think it's potentially true that republicans would like him to -- like to see him run. i think eric holder has been the antithesis of republicans and how they have filled courts during the trump administration. and that is something that republicans from the house to the senate and the president have campaigned on.

and it is something they have kept their promise on, filling the court with true conservatives. so eric holder is the antithesis of that. and that could rev republicans up in an effort to defend those court decisions and those judgeships they filled. >> and azi, any sense of the role president obama will play in the midterms? >> it's clear that obama is not happy with a lot of what is coming out of the white house. and he's tried to sort of inspire his coalition into action rather than just be on the sidelines criticizing. how much involved is unclear, but having people like holder sort of step forward and raise issues like redistributing and gerrymandering will be part of what obama could be doing, which is focusing attention and getting voters out to the polls. >> azi pajbarah, thank you so much. and julia manchester, thank you so much. i'm dara brown, thanks for

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