ancestry story. now with 100 million family trees, find your story. get started fofree at ancestry.com. ♪ ♪ welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. we are live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, paper tiger. a document from the president's lawyers gives us a breath taking inside look at the mountain battle to come. we'll dig into why the president's legal team says the president can't obstruct justice. and that he doesn't have to sit for an interview with robert mueller. plus, the first-ever admission that the president worked on the statement explaining his son's meeting with the russian lawyer promising dirt on hillary clinton. and later, an exclusive

interview with former governor terry mcauliffe. we'll talk about everything from the russia investigation to the healthf his party when he joins me live onset. but first, the start of this week, believe it or not, marks 500 days of the trump administration, and the mueller investigation rolls on with it. this sunday morning we were presented with an evolving posture from the white house. there was the scripture of a secret legal memo that "the new york times" revealed, and then there was the sermon of how rudy giuliani framed it on the sunday shows. the document written by john dowd and jayekulow before giuliani joined the team asserts that the president could end the special counsel investigation, doesn't need to sit for an interview with robert mueller, could ignore a subpoena, and depending on how you interpret it, could potentially even pardon himself. but pressed to defend those claims, rudy giuliani was not exactly preaching fire and brim stone. >> you're making a case that he didn't obstruct or are you making a case a president cannot

obstruct justice? >> well, i don't like -- you know, i'm a lawyer. i'm sort of a conservative lawyer in a legal sense and i don't like going into an argument you don't have to get to. you might want to say he has very broad powers. >> do you and the president's attorneys believe the president has the power to pardon himself? >> he's not, but he does. he has no intention of pardoning himself. he probably does. doesn't say he can't. i mean that's another really interesting constitutional margin. can the president pardon himself. >> it's not going to happen. >> why put it in the memo? is this a veiled threat to mull er? you push it do too far, we can end your probe. >> you're not asking the guy who wrote the memo. >> fair enough. >> i'm not sure i would have written that, chuck. i think it's a hollow, sort of a hollow promise. >> almost impractical. the president of the united states pardoning himself would just be unthinkable.

and it would, it would lead to probably immediate impeachment. >> but as with everything, what it really comes down to is what the president believe. joining me onset,ngton anchor for bbc news katty kay, msnbc political analyst robert costa. yamiche alcindor. "the new york times" and msnbc contributor charlie savage. andoining me from new york i ce for edelman and msnbc contributor steve schmidt and his debut on "kasie d.c." steve, it's great to have you. great to have all my panel here in d.c. as well. charlie savage, i want to start with you on this because you were part of the team that unveiled what we have now been talking about all weekend which is this behind the scenes memo. we've been picking apart kind of the details of this, but we were talking right before we went on the air about what you think the most important broad take away here is and that is the sweeping

constitutional challenges here. >> that's right. so, this memo is a top to bottom set of, you know, legal claims, factual claims, arguments why he didn't obstruct justice, couldn't have obstructed jus and so forth. but the one that's really breath taking and that makes all the rest of them not matter if it's true is this vision of a president who wields absolute unrevealable control over the justice department, over the machinery of the federal law enforcement, as a result he can shutdown or director close any investigation he wants and he can pardon anyone he wants, even if the evidence shows that his motivation for doing so was corrupt and self-serving. it doesn't matter congress's law of obstruction of justice can't touch the president. the implications of that are so profound. it hearkens back to the nixonian, he can't do it because it would be illegal in our society. >> right. >> it's not just a defense, you

know. being used as a defense here, well, i didn't do this bad thing, you can't come after me for it. but if that is true, it is justification for offensive use of the justice department, too. as he's threatened to do, he can open an investigation -- >> start an investigation into an enemy. >> irs audits or whatever. and that's -- the law cannot touch him. the law has nothing to say about that. it's impeachment or nothing and that's the system of american government we live in according to the lawyers who are whispering in the ear of the president of the united states. >> steve schmidt, i enjoyed your twitter thread last night on thistopic. care to take us through what your view is of thi memo? >> well, this is a very serious moment and, kasie, we have to look at this in a couple of different aspects. first, this is a president who lies constantly. thousands of times on the year. in fact, the liza cumulating seem to suggest that objective truth is being challenged by

this president. that what's true is what the leader believes is true, or tells us is true despite what reality may or may not be. secondly, we have a president who routinelybout locking up political opponents. talks about locking up journalists. talks about locking up anybody who disagrees with him. and lastly, this memo declares, i am the law, above the law, that the president, if he so chooses as charlie pointed out, can use the justice department to investigate political opponents, and that there is no boundary to the execution of the president's power. and we have to understand how an thi -- antithetical that is and how deeply unamerican it is. the greatness of george washington was that he was the first person in thousands of years who could have been a king, could have been an emperor, and he said, no, i will be a president with limited

powers. and after a time of service, i'll go home. he established a precedent that the institution is bigger than the man, that the system is bigger than the office, and that the constitutional democracy bequeathed to all of us by our founders and paid for with the blood of patriots for 200 plus years. donald trump is asserting that he's no longer a president, but, in fact, a king whose powers are unlimited. that is the plain meaning of this legal memo. it is the singularly most disturbing thing ever articulated by an agent of a president of the united states with regard to presidential power, far exceeding any claims that richard nixon once made about the power of his office. >> katty kay, what's your view on what steve is laying out right there? >> it's not exactly government by the people or government for the people, right? the concept that's laid out in

this message. you don't even have to go back as far as the war of independence to see the anomalies in what the trump legal team is proposing here. there are plenty of republican senators who in the late '90s decided that actually a president could be charged with obstruction of justice. jeff sessions being one of them who also said that president clinton had said that he was not the subject of the civil legal system because he was president of the united states. and jeff sessions' view was the supreme court did not agree with that as an argument. so, yes, this is an anomaly in the american system of -- >> especially an american exceptionalism rests on that idea of george washington and the way the rest of the world sees this. >> i'm not sure the monarch of great britain would put themselves as being the law and above the law in the way that the president is -- >> certainly the people of britain wouldn't go along with that this day and age. bob costa, let's explore a little bit trump's legal team. it's evolved.

rudy giuliani was not one of the authors of that memo, he's new to the team since. how are the dynamics playing out? he didn't want to take the memo to its logical conclusion. if you read between the lines, you look at it, could be interpreted to say the president could pardon himself in the event that there was a crime that mueller were to charge him with. giuliani says, no, no, no, we're never going to go there. that would be political suicide. >> inside of the president's legal team, going back months whether it was john dowd or now mayor giuliani, you had this belief that the president could dance between the raindrops on the russia collusion aspect of this special federal investigation. at the same time, they have always been worried about the obstruction of justice aspect of this investigation. so, when you go to this memo that charlie and his colleagues sharply reported today, you go back to how giuliani has been on tv talking through, it's really about countering the idea of obstruction of justice and how do they do that. they started time and again by talking about executive power rmt.

as long as they underscore that the isn't in the clear. >> it's a different strategy than collusion. on the collusion side they a cert no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. in this instance they seem to be laying out a legal argument. >> the president's conduct is under scrutiny with the obstruction of justice piece. when it comes to the trial of former campaign chairman of paul manafort, we didn't really know paul. he wasn't really involved for a long time or george papadopoulos, he was just a coffee fetcher on the campaign. they can move away from the individuals who were really under scrutiny under the russia interference part, but this is -- the report that's likely to come out this summer if the president does or does not sit for an interview with mueller is about his duct. >> yamiche, one thing that stuck out to me in giuliani's series of interviews, he kept saying it would be impossible, he would never go there. i want to play a little bit. we have sound of chris christie and dan abrams talking about this on abc and then i'll ask you about it.

>> he left open the possibility of the president pardoning himself even though he doesn't expect him to do it he would have the right to do it. >> there's no way it would happen. it would become a political pardon. if the president were to pardon himself he'll get impeached. >> i think it would be outrageous for a sitting of the president -- if the president decide he decided he was going to pardon himself that's self-executing impea impeachment. whether there is an argument they can make, that's not what the framers intend. that's what the american people would be able to stand for. >> the president's lawyer also saying it would be politically impossible for us -- for the president to pardon himself. it reminded me of, you know, this president when he was running for office said, you know, i could shoot people on 5th avenue, my supporters would still be with me. there does seem to be a calculation we haven't been able to figure out where that line is. what can this president do that would cause people to turn against him? there seems to be a consensus that pardoning himself would, in fact, cross that line.

>> well, i'll say two things. the first is this also reminds me of czsarah sanders, is he gog to fire mull er? we wouldn't be in this kind of crisis. there is a line there they would draw now. there is a president who is trying to keep onto his political will and trying to get his supporters not completely abandon him. they are hedging on the idea pardoning myself would be pretty terrible. however, when i talk to people who say would this president go to jail or pardon himself, who among us, if you had the power just as a human being to keep yourself out of prison or to stay in office and hope that maybe after you get out of office you might actually be charged with a crime, who wouldn't pardon themselves? to me as a reporter it is in some ways common sense. sources close to the president are true. they say this is not something the president would want to do. this is not something he's looking into. but i just think that if the president, i think, most people i've talked to think that he would pardon his son, his

son-in-law, that if he is backed up against the wall and has a case against him, why wouldn't he pardon himself? >> katty kay, i'm not sure there is isn't a line this president wouldn't be willing to cross. >> yeah, i mean, the point about his supporters, you know, abandoning him, the evidence is his supporters are growing when it comes to public opinion on the whole russia investigation and the number of people who feel this is politically motivated. whether they are winning the legal case here, they are certainly winning the public opinion case. if this is going to be a political issue, american voters increasingly believe there is an element of witch hunt about this. over 50% now believe this is politically motivated and that's critical for the president. it's working for him. >> that's a point that is so right. this white house looks as it as a public battle. talking about -- >> as president clinton did. >> as president clinton did. look what happened to the 1998

elections. the democrats thought the republic kands ov republicans overplayed their hands. he hasn't crossed the line yet by firing mueller or rosenstein. you talk to people who know the president, he still feels burned after firing director james comey. >> interesting. steve schmidt, what's your view on what the president might be willing to do here or not? to bob's point, he hasn't fired rosenstein. he hasn't fired bob mueller. pardoning himself it seems like would be the next kind of iteration of that. but again, you know, i still -- i still feel like the whims of this president go back and forth so wildly, eye ni'm not convincs staff can keep him on track. >> his behavior will be increasingly erratic. i think he'll burn everything down to save himself. i think that his desperation has become more clear as this investigation has moved closer

to the oval office. fundamentally, this letter is deserving of a response from every elected official i this country who has taken an oath of fidelity to the constitution of the united states. the legal argument is an assault on the concepts of the american republic and on the concepts of liberal democracy. it is that serious. and what we know for sure is there won't be a single republican member of congress who lays out an argument tomorrow morning that says, this is too far. this is a dangerous argument. this is an anti-american argument. and his strategy is quite clear. donald trump is using mass rallies where he lies throughout them to incite a base to a level of fervor where they suspend what is clearly true before their eyes, where they accept truth as what the leader says is true, and where they join together in a shared sense of

victimization. this is all out of autocrat 101. it is fundamentally illiberal. whether it's poland, hungary, the rise of nationalist parties in germany, in england, in france, the tactics are exactly the same. and it is disturbing to see it playing out in the united states of america in the political leadership of this country, whether they are republicans, democrats, liberals or conservatives. if you have fidelity to liberal democracy, it is important, i think, to speak out and reject the premise of this argument which is as far out there as anything we've ever seen in the country's history with regard to the power of the president. the president of the presidency in our system is constrained. it's checked. there are three co-equal branches of government. this is an assault on that concept and i think this president would do anything --

anything -- to save himself or to save family members from this investigation which at every single stage has proven that whatever this administration has said is going on in fact has proven not to be the case. >> i'm glad you raise that because 're going to start talking about it that here in a couple of minutes. when we continue, another revelation from the memo, the president did work on that statement splarning his son's meeting with the russian lawyer in trump tower. plus, the on again/off again summit with kim jong-un is on for now, but is the president falling into the same pattern bill clinton did years ago? later as the antiestablishment movement takes power in italy, one of the fathers of it here in the u.s. says maybe now isn't the best time after all. "kasie d.c." back right after this. they're all going in the same direction but in very different ways and pampers gives all of them our driest best fitting diaper. pampers cruisers with three-way fit.

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welcome back. in the letter president trump's lawyers sent to special counsel robert mueller back in january, they acknowledged for the first

time that the president did, in fact, dictate a statement about that now infamous trump tower meeting between his eldest son and a russian lawyer. that original statement claimed the focus of the sit-down was russian adoption. of course, e-mails later revealed that trump junior's real motivation for taking the meeting was to obtain damaging information about hillary clinton. you may also recall that after reports of the meeting first surfaced, the white house repeatedly denied that the president had any involvement in the drafting of that statement. >> the president was not -- did not draft the response. the response was -- came from donald trump, jr., and i'm sure in consultation with his lawyer. i do want to be clear, the president was not involved in the drafting of the statement. >> the president didn't sign off on anything. he was coming back from the g20. the statement that was released on saturday was released by donald trump, jr., i'm sure in consultation with his lawyers. the president wasn't involved in that. >> he certainly didn't dictate, but, you know, like i said, he

weighed in, offered suggestion like any father would do. >> just to be clear, all of those statements -- not true. this morning one of the president's closest allies in congress house majority leader kevin mccarthy was asked about those repeated denials from the white house. >> mr. leader, are you bothered by the fact the white house lied about the president's involvement here? >> look, one thing i have found, this has gone on for more than a year. millions of dollars have been spent. the white house has been cooperating all the way through. this was all based upon was there collusion involved in the election. everyone has looked at this says there's no collusion going forward. >> mr. leader, i understand those are the talking points. but this is a specific question. are you concerned that the white house -- you heard the sound bites, you saw the statement from his own lawyers. they lied. does that concern you? >> they can go on with the investigation. what i was concerned most about, like most americans, was there

any collusion. there was no collusion. >> so, briefly setting aside kevin mccarthy not engaging on that question at all, charlie savage, what's the reason for the legal team to do this, put this in this memo? they clearly feel they needed to sit the record straight in some way, otherwise it seems harmful. >> right. that's a chris christie marco rubio moment not being able to get off the talking point and think in real time. right, so, the context in the memo was as you have received in testimony from other people. they knew it was up. people who had been in the airplane told mueller what really happened so they couldn't not acknowledge it in the missive to mueller. they had to explain it away some other way. the fact jay sekulow signed that letter means he has known he misled the public for at least since january. maybe he didn't know it when he said those things last summer and he let the record go uncorrected. that's on him now as a

credibility statement. just to finish the thought, so their argument is look, it's not a crime to lie to "the new york times." at the end of the day we lied to "the new york times." >> sure, they are still talking to the american people, though. >> they are evading why bob mueller would care. he c because if this -- this is trump's personal actions. this isn't the people around him. and if trump is showing that he has the desire to cover up the truth about certain contacts between his campaign and russia in that interaction, that goes to whether maybe that was his intention when he did other things that mueller is looking at. it goes to whether he might have had a corrupt motive when he was pressuring comey over flynn, when he fired comey over other things as well. there is a legal reason for prosecutors to be very interested in that, even if it's not a crime in and of itself to lie to the public or the times. >> when you think about why the president so far has declined to do an interview with bob mueller, it's to charlie's point, is that they don't want to have the president in a situation where he has to

explain or talk through his intent. did he have corrupt or criminal intent? as sarah sanders said during her remarks, he was just a father weighing in on the process. that's the white house's perspective on the exchange. but when you're sitting in front of a federal prosecutor and federal investigator, a perspective is not enough. you have to talk through your intent. that's why you have rudy giuliani, the former new york mayor out there every day saying it would have to be so narrow about the questions because they see a risk if the president is in that kind of situation. >> if you remember, the white house's stance and the president's stance has been that don junior, donald trump, jr., when he was going to that meeting to hopefully in his mind get information about hillary clinton from russian informants or russian officials, that he'd never talked to his father about that. so you have his father now admitting i was involved in crafting a statement about a meeting that i supposedly never knew about and didn't really talk to anybody about. so there is this idea that is also crucial.

you're arguing you don't know anything about this while also covering it up. >> steve schmidt, i want to talk to you about kevin mccarthy for a minute. not only did he not call out the obvious lying that happened from the administration, but he also was pressed on the broad executive powers that are laid out in this memo that you have essentially said would be the powers of a king. and he potentially the next speaker of the house, potentially the leader of a co-equal branch of government did not push back at all. >> it gives me no pleasure to say this. i've known kevin mccarthy for a long time and i consider him a friend. but he disqualified himself for the speakership of the house. at the end of the day, if one of the parties wants to make a monkey, the ma jordjority leadem pretty indefinite rent to it. the speaker is a constitutional officer, third in line to the office of the president of the united states. what you saw was a partisan there. somebody who would do anything, complete servility, above the

constitution, above the system of checks and balances, above the rule of law. it's disgraceful to watch it. let me just say a couple of things. we saw jay sekulow there stone cold liar. nothing that man ever says again on national television should be taken seriously. of course, we already know that about sarah sanders and of course the president. but with regard to the question of collusion, of course there was collusion. the collusion took place when the president's son-in-law, his son, and his campaign chairman met with representatives with close ties to the russian intelligence services and to the kremlin for the purposes of receiving dirt on the democratic nominee for president of the united states. that's not an attack on hillary clinton or the democratic party. that is an attack on the united states of america, our sovereignty, and our elections process.

this is what george washington warned the country about in his farewell address, was foreign interference. and there was only one appropriate response. when these people were contacted by a hostile foreign power to give dirt to the -- to their campaign about the democratic nominee, and that was to call the director of the fbi, period, full stop. and to see kevin mccarthy up there being complicit in the lying, i'm troubled about it. stuttering around on this collusion issue is shameful. it is shameful. >> katty kay? >> mccarthy is looking at tray gowdy and thinking, when you do speak out and you say anything that is critical of the president's position, the president's lawyers' position on the fbi investigation, what do you get within the republican party and potentially within voters? resounding silence. or attacks. and you go back to your district

and you hear that actually people are much more in line with what kevin mccarthy is saying than what tray gowdy is saying. >> kevin mccarthy has his own personal reasons. he's one of the members of congress closest to trump. charlie savage, thank you for your thoughts tonight. appreciate it. when wecontinue, governor terry mcauliffe is standing by. he joins me live onset up next.

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change california now is responsible for the content of this advertising. welcome back to "kasie d.c." joining me now onset for a "kasie d.c." exclusive is former democratic governor of virginia terry mcauliffe. governor, great to see you again onset. >> great to be here. >> i want to talk about the russia investigation. there's been increasing criticism and frustration among some democrats i talk to that the democratic party as a whole is not handling the push back to this investigation correctly. obviously there was a conversation about impeachment and democratic leadership and you on this show have come out and said look, we can't have that conversation until after mueller's report comes out. however, there are some who argue that you aren't necessarily effectively pushing a message that could resonate with voters about collusion. you're not raising questions

about the strategy that giuliani is displaying where he is swaying public opinion, casting doubts about the vision. should democrats be doing more to try to insist -- to defend mueller's credibility? >> i think first of all, the news about collusion is out every day. now we have this 20-page plus memo that's now come out where the president either his lawyer lied or he told his lawyer to lie or -- it just doesn't make sense so he should fire his lawyer. he said that he didn't have anything to do with it. this memo says he was involved in the drafting of the memo so there was no question there was collusion. i mean, there was a meeting in trump tower with the president's son with campaign advisors, with russians saying we're going to give you dirt on hillary. i don't know how else you would define collusion. the issue is what did the president know. that's what they're trying to find out today. he says he had nothing to do with the meeting, didn't know anything about it. now we're finding out new details today. but that's how -- every single day, i think what the democratic message, what we've got to lean in on, why ve for a democrat.

look what we did in virginia. record number of jobs created. took unemployment from 5.4 down to 3.6. billions dollars of new investment, largest investment in k-12 in virginia history. voters want to know what we're actually going to do forthem look what happened this week in virginia. we got medicaid expansion done. >> i was going to ask you about that. >> one rinne reason, only reason, we picked up 15 house delegate seats in november of 2017. that was the largest pickup since 1880. and thank goodness we picked it up and now 400,000 people are going to get health care. ralph northam, governor northam, my lieutenant governor is going to sign that bill. elections matter. >> that is a concrete policy victory in the wake of the beginning of what could be a blue wave. >> wouldn't have happened, would not have happened had we not picked up 11 of the 15 were women. women are driving this election. we started in november '17. records pilkd cked up.

that's going to translate. what are we going to do? we have an infrastructure bill. we have to deal with health care. cassie, umenyiora seen premiums go up in state after state n. virginia they're going up as high as 64% increase. these are iguodabig issues. we have teachers walking out rightfully so because they're not being paid enough. the democratic message is what are we going to do for you. that's what voters want from us. in virginia, why did we win? we had four great years of economic prosperity. everybody was happy. we had a great message and we gave people results. >> do you think that can eaktgh? tom who has been a progressive favorite in your state has written lately saying local media is not as prominent as it used to be. people are getting their news nationally. there is not enough -- there is not coverage of your democratic messaging on health care, on all these other issues. it's all trump all the time. do you not need to be pushing back with a stronger trump-related message? >> i think the anti-trump message is out there. the president helps us every single day with that message.

but look, all i can tell you is look what we did in virginia in november of '17. we swept the statewide offices. that was about turnout on our positive message, building upon the great record we had four years in virginia. everybody was happy. we had results. jobs, economic development, 10 billion we put into transportation, reformed our education system. our argument has to be what are we going to do for them. we win on our progressive message of what we stand for, economic empowerment, protecting people's rights. you know, when i ran for governor five years ago, republicans controlled all three statewides. only 33 democrats out of 100 in our house of delegates. when i left office, all democrats statewides and we had 49 out of 100. huge pickup. why? a positive message. the trump stuff out there, tell what we're going to do. >> i want to switch gears. bill clinton responded to senator kiersten gillibrand.

she said he should have stepped down after the monica lewinsky scandal. >> the tolerance we had 25 years ago, what was allowed 25 years ago will not be tolerated today, is not allowed today, and that we have to have the kind of o r oversight and accountability society needs so we can protect people in the workplace, so people can function without having an unsafe work environment. >> so you're saying if bill clinton were president today and those incidents were unfolding today -- >> it would be a very different conversation, exactly. >> well, i disagree with her. i think, you know, you have to really ignore what the context was. but, you know, she's living in a different context and she did it for different reasons, so i -- but i just disagree with her. >> he said that the contexts were different. but given what we know now and the way this movement has unfolded, should bill clinton have resigned over the monica

lewinsky scandal? >> this was 25 years ago, it was difficu different standards. i think people looked at it in totality, 26 million -- he made a horrible -- >> why were they different standards? >> i'm saying at the time we dealt with this 25 years ago, it wasn't the standards we have today. i think if it happened today, i think you'd be having the same argument that would go on with the me too movement. but 25 years ago, as i say, it was a different standard. >> do you think the clintons victimized monica lewinsky in that, do you think the way they dealt with her would be tolerable today? >> no, i don't. i think it was a horrible thing 25 years ago. as you know, we're very good friends. i told the president back then it was a horrible thing. i wrote about it in my book. he paid a horrible price, he paid a horrible personal price, he paid a horrible political price. people looked at the totality the things he accomplished when he was in office, people made a decision back then they had gone too far. as you know, we picked up a

senate seat in 1998 because they felt the republicans had way overstepped their bounds with ken starr and all the different things that had gone on, too. clearly the behavior was horrible and wrong and i told the it was wrong. >> do you think the presidents are at risk of overstepping with president trump in a similar way were there to be a politically motivated i7 motivated impeachment of this president? >> i don't want to see a political impeachment. i've said to you and others, democrats shouldn't spend time talking about impeachment. they should talk about what they're going to do for you. mueller is doing the investigation. let him come out with the report. then people make decisions. i don't think we ought to be second guessing. i don't think we ought to hypothesize about what is going to happen. let the mueller report come out. i go back to the point democrats win on an agenda. people are with us on the issues, treating people with dignity and respect. as you know, cassie, when i was governor i vetoed 120 horrible bills.

antiwomen, antilgbt. pro gun antivoting rights. most vee totoes of any governor virginia history. record job growth, record investment education. they want results from us. as i say, everything with trump is out there, but let mueller do his investigation and we can go from there. >> i ask you this every time i have thank you r you, but really quickly, are you running for president in 2020? >> i hope no democrat will answer that question because i am working my heart out. i just was in louisiana and texas and michigan last couple weeks talking about how we take a red state like virginia and we convert it into a blue state. why? all the things i have just talked to you about. we have a lot of time. i think our party, cassie, for too long has made a big mistake. they spend too much time on the presidency and we forget about state and local. we have 36 governors up this year. those 36 governors will be in the chairs in 2021 when the new census and they redraw every line in america. we traditionally have not been in the game on t. i'm work ing with eric holder now making sure

we have fair maps. that's what people want. people at home, they want results. they want people to do things. they want their life to be better. we can help them do t. sitting around talking to me talking about trump as governor would not help one virginiian. traveling the five continents and 35 trade missions, doing $91 billion in trade -- >> you have it down. even if you're not willing to say it yet. >> let's wait in '18. >> thank you for being here. always appreciate it. still to come, the state of play with korea. "kasie d.c." back after this. [music playing] (vo) from day one, we always came through for our customers. it's how we earned your trust. until... we lost it. today, we're renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers. so we can focus on your satisfaction. it's a new day at wells fargo. but it's a lot like our first day. wells fargo. established 1852.

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negotiations has created an emotional roller coaster will they, or won't they perhaps summed up by this dramatic reenactment. >> game on. game on! game on. >> he shoots, he scores! one for one. >> nice going. >> game on. >> game on! >> score. >> game on. >> game on. >> hi, wayne. hi. oops. >> and she's okay. game on! >> yeah, game on! >> so, the game is on for now.

katty kay? >> after the car crash. >> hopefully everyone will come out alive. where do they stand here? and how nervously are our american allies watching this kind of back and forth between trump and kim jong-un? >> certainly if you're in south korea you're watching it nervously because the prospect that it could be back off again and tensions could ratchet up again worries them a lot. already what we're seeing is that the north koreans have quite a lot out of this. they're getting a photo opportunity. they've got divisions within the alliance of south korea, china, and america when it comes to maximum pressure. that's eased tensions in north korea substantially. and they're starting to see an uptick in aid and sanction busting financial flows into the country as well. so, it's hard to see that the president hasn't given away a lot in terms of the summit without getting very much up front in return and that's exactly what bill clinton was, you know, the reason bill clinton didn't have a summit with the north koreans back at the end of the 1990s because he

wanted the denuclearization to come first. trump has flipped that model. we'll see if he gets the end goal afterwards. >> even the picture of trump smiling with kim yong ol is some some ways -- >> wait until it's kim jong-un. >> right. bob costa, do you read anything into bolton not attending the planned summit? there's been some behind the scenes friction there. >> a lot of the wanes world reference. bohemian rhapsody when they're singing it in the car the greatest scene from the movie. but when you think about the national security advisor, he's not in the meeting, the vice-president is not in the meeting, based on conversations with white house officials this weekend, they say those officials were playing the bad cop role in the negotiations, taking a harder line, secretary of state pompeo, the president took a different tact in the negotiations. this is an historic moment that may not lead on june 12th to denuclearization or any kind of firm commitment. but if it ends the korean war, if it establishes diplomatic ties, they're trying to begin

the sale now to say to the american people and u.s. allie that that's enough, that's the start of a process. >> so, yamiche, you cover the white house every day. do they see this as -- are they at the point they feel like this will be america can come out of this having won something significant, even if they don't get to total denuclearization? >> i think that the president himself feels like -- i don't know if america would have wanted something. i think the president feels a as though if he sits down, he can say i've gone farther -- >> is it more about him than the country at large? >> the people i've talked to think the president thinks it's in the country's best interest to sit down with kim jong-un. i think that the president also wants to be seen as a president who did more than other presidents and as a result when you have these pictures, some people might say, okay, north korea is getting to be able to have this image with an american president, but president trump is also going to be able to taking a victory lap saying, look at all the things i did. and, by the way, that letter he said, hey, i'm going to layout -- i'm going to cancel

this, he's telling north korea i don't really need this. i think the perception brought from people after reading the letter was president trump was ready to give this all up because he didn't -- it wasn't that important to him. now that it's back on he can make the now that it'sack on, he can say i didn't really need it, they came crawling to me, and look at all the things i've gotten. i think it's very clear that they don't have an understanding of what denuclearization will mean to north korea long term. >> most people like the idea that we're talking rather than promising fire and fury. if you're really going to lift the maximum pressure that has taken an awful lot of time and effort and coordination to get us into a position where there's max numb maximum pressure, are you giving a lot away to have them sit down. just ahead, we're going to talk about changes and fractures in the party. more on kasie d.c. in just a

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job numbers and markets continue to be relatively strong, and over the last since months, democrats have seen their lead slashed in the polls with the generic congressional ballot. and at the same time, there hey be fading enthusiasm behind fringe republican candidates. people are starting to realize that the anti-establishment thing is a luxury we can't afford right now. that quote comes from steve bannon. yes, that steve bannon. in an interview with jeremy peters. steve schmitt, i want to talk about this a little bit with you. i was surprised to hear bannon quoted as saying this. you know, this is a guy who said we're going to make sure mitch mcconnell is not majority leader anymore and talking about chris mcdaniel in mississippi who had been an insurgent candidate. do you feel like republicans in washington are pulling things back together in the face of the midterms? >> i wouldn't say that they're pulling things back together, although i do believe that their electoral outlook has improved.

that the size of the blue tsunami, such as it is, and we saw some of these extraordinary results in the special elections, i think it's dissipating. one of the reasons i think it's t dissipating is that donald trump is breaking the will of a lot of democratic voters to hang in there and resist, because they are worn out by the lack of fighting spirit by so much of the democratic leadership in washington, d.c. and the inability to stand up and oppose trump. i think it's more likely than not that we see a turnover. >> what to you mean about the lack of ability to stand up? are you talking about the impeachment question? >> to make an argument, a ferocious argument based on american ideas and ideals and the threat that this president poses to them. there is not a united effort, i think, that is breaking through the den of all of the day's news

to inspire and motivate and keep the intensity in the democratic base, and i think as a result you see narrowing. as a strategic proposition, you can defeat an opponent by conquering them, think the allies against germany or you can defeat an opponent by breaking their will to resist and fight. think the united states in the vietnam war. so the degree to which trump exhausts his opponents, he wears them out, that people become demoralized, that theyon't see a response in fighting fashion from democratic leadership, i think in part, that shows responsible for some of the narrowing that we're seeing. we're seeing a decrease in enthusiasm. >> a point that i think a lot of democrats are increasingly making to me privately. thanks so much. hope to see you back soon. >> when we continue, we will talk exclusively to the mayor of san juan as hurricane season approaches and a new report reveals that in reality,

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trump rolled out steel and aluminum tariffs on some of america's closest allies. >> we're punishing our friends. this makes absolutely no sense. >> we're not in a trade wash.

we' -- war. we're in a trade discussion. >> the idea that we are somehow a national security threat to the united states is quite something. >> to say that this is an attack on canada is not right. >> seriously? >> breaking news. >> that blockbuster report in the "new york times." >> the president cannot be compelled to testify in the russia probe. >> and could not have obstructed the probe into russian interference. >> but the president's powers are essentially unlimited. >> the letter confirms for the first time that president trump purposely dictated a misleading statement for his son. >> to you and the president's attorneys believe the president has the pardon to power himself? >> he's not, but he probablies to. >> i don't think a president should pardon himself. >> if the president were to pardon himself, he'd be impeached. >> welcome back to "meet the press", sir. >> it's nice to be with you,

todd. chris. >> that's okay. we won't dot la the last names, giuliani. >> polit reporter for axios, and the author of the new book "messing with the enemy", clint watts. we remember when president trump said this during the 2016 campaign. >> i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. >> well, the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani seems to hearken back to those comments in an interview just released by the "huffington post." giuliani said, quote, if he shot

james comey, he'd be impeached the next day, but giuliani said in no case can the president be subpoenaed or indicted even in the case of shooting comey. i'm not really quite sure where to go with this. except to say they have been trying to argue that the president can't be indicted. and he seemed to be using an example, well, okay, if he shot james comey, he could be impeached but doesn't mean he could be indicted for murder. >> he manages to extend every story. you know, the president wanted him out there mixing it up. he's getting that. but yes, that is what he is emphasizing here, is that the giuliani's interviews, there were a number of them today, in which he said the president cannot be indicted and cannot be compelled to testify in front of a grand jury. it was breaking a little bit with the memo about the pardon. in the memo, they suggest that the president would be within

his rights. he can't obstruct any investigation, because all federal probes therefore run through him. >> right. >> and but if he needed to could pas pardon himself a gani sor of distances himself from that. he says though true, he feels dangerous. he could be impeached if he tried. >> on the one hand you have this very carefully crafted legal document from the president's team. but on the other hand, giuliani has been functioning as the political kind of attack dog if you will, charged with changing public opinion. and he seemed to, as john points out over and over again saying okay the president could in fact maybe in theory pardon himself, but under no circumstances would we ever do that. >> and just to go back a little bit, is actually not new. we reported at the post last summer that trump was privately asking advisers, could he pardon aides? could he pardon family members?

could he pardon himself. what john is saying this is now bursi bu bursting into public view and you have this memo that was leaked and you have giuliani taking it on as a philosophical question. he said of course he probably i can, but it wou -- probably cand be a nightmare. and krischristie came on. >> he called it suicide. >> they raised in their comments if that really would be a red line. you look back, if the presidents to this, that's the end of it, congress will stand up to him. and then you look at mccarthy saying this is only about collusion and this needs to wind down. so i think this is an interesting question. >> that really stuck out to me, actually, because there has been this kind of conventional wisdom. every single time this president

has done or said, i mean, what's the list? it starts with john mccain and the p.o.w. comments. >> that seems quaint now. >> the gold star family dispute. time after time. there will be a few republicans, typically those who are not running for office again. >> or who have said they're leaving. >> who said, this is bad for the party. but there's been none of that sort of group push-back that it would take to derail some of this stuff. i think it's a great point, yes, this seems like a red line that so many would say no, he can't do that, but this red line keeps getting moved. >> guy lewis, you've sort of argued, i'm interested in your take on the memo. because we've heard a lot of criticism of it as potentially inflaming or causing a constitutional crisis. what's your take on the legal merits of the member snow.

>> -- memo. >> kacie, the memo is well written. it teases issues of can i be subpoenaed, can i be indicted, and should this probe be able to continue. they make good arguments that hey, we've cooperated, we've given you everything. the only sort of red line as i think everyone is recognizing is can you either subpoena to the grand jury or really even interview the president of the united states. they argue firmly -- i don't know if they can win it in a federal court, because this is really unchartered territory. but they argue effectively that the president's got some fogood arguments, and indeed. >> how hard do you think mueller's going to push this? >> that's a fogood question. mueller was a marine. he was practically born and raised in the department of

justice. he reminds me of the movies, the old world war ii movies, where you hear take the wheel. i don't see him as backing down, however, the flip side is, i don't see him trying to hit a home run with the bases loaded unless he's really got the goods, and i don't know if he's got the goods right now. >> wade in here, you're fbi veteran. how do you see the balance of this legal argument that the president's team is making versus the mandate that bob mueller has? >> yeah, who cares. that's my take on it. that memo is great. the president's lawyers can write that up. but i think ultimately, the special counsel's office is going to pursue this to the end. and the interview is necessary because the key component is obstruction. let let's say they stop it, i would like to see a subpoena get

pushed forward. i would love to see it go to the court system. this is a weakness in our political system that we don't know what the president is or is not allowed to to. i don't think the framers of the constitution thought the president could commit a crime whenever he wants to and then pardon himself. if the special counsel really wants to go about this, he will continue the investigation, he will go for more witnesses. he will go for more indictments and try to flip nor witnesses into the scenario. so the investigation would be extended. this really starts to hurt the president's public relations campaign saying hey, we need to speed up this investigation and fwe get it over. this investigation is weighing on the president. so this could backfire as well. >> to the point of collusion versus obstruction, i almost feel like listening to giuliani this morning, you hear the white house saying they've already won the collusion argument. there's no collusion to prove.

there's no collusion, but clearly obstruction of justice, this entire memo is geared toward fighting against that. >> that's really important to point out. i think a lot of people across the country are hearing collusion, collusion, there's no collusion, but mueller is looking at other things after the election, which is not about collusion, it's about the president's actions and why he fired comey, things that happened with michael flynn. things that have nothing to do with collusion and doesn't let the president off the hook. this is something to clint's point, the timing is ironic. he says he wants this to end as quickly as possible, but the more he gets involved, the more his lawyers are saying oh, we're going to threaten not to be subpoenaed, that is extending the timing of this and will not wrap up anytime soon unless the president answers questions from mueller. >> we know the president seems to be the one who wants to to this, it seems.

everyone else seems to think it's a bad idea. >> yeah, that's exactly right. he does. it's sort of unclear, entirely why, but i think a couple reasons he's articulated, one is that he truly believes he's done nothing wrong. and in calling this a witch-hunt is a savvy p.r. campaign and what he believes in his heart of hearts. he feels he has nothing to hide, not sitting down will make him look guilty. he and his lawyers disagree on this point, but he trusts his skills across the table from mueller in the same way he trusts his skills across the table from kim jong un. so he believes he can go in there one on one and be savvy and prove his innocence and his lawyers are worried he may purr

j -- perjure himself. >> he does not have the discipline needed. despite the long history of doing depositions, some of which have not fared so well. he has this confidence that he can get in there and seal the deal, exonerate himself and is expects that mueller will turn around and announce to the world that the president did not do anything wrong which is what he was so frustrated with comey about, comey would not say hey, you're not the target of this investigation. >> he wouldn't go out there publicly. >> right. and there is no indication that mueller is going to do that at the end of the investigation. there will be a report to congress that may or may not be released. this is something consuming the president now. but to your point is exactly right, too. this is going to stretch out that much further and now giuliani's saying we're not going to make a decision about the interview until after the summit and this is getting into a legal battle, this will go well past the midterm deadline that giuliani wants.

>> mueller seems to be very clear, the context of this investigation, that any, the slightest slip-up with him will let you know, will land you on the wrong side of him. the most recent person to be indicted essentially was cooperating with the fbi, was helping the investigation and made a misstatement in his interview around the negotiations to actually enter into the plea agreement. >> there's three quick things why i think jonathan's 100% right. if he's saying that an interview 100% sure. occur, which i'm not that's sort of what i heard. number one, the department of justice has said, both sides have said, both sides of the aisle have said you can't indict a sitting president. the department has said that, and they've affirmed that. number two, they've told, again, if reports are correct, i've not seen the document, but they've told the president that he's not

a target of the investigation. maybe most importantly n, kacie i've been at this a long, long time. i've never seen a case, an obstruction case that look anything like this. you show up, you give them the money, you kill a witness during the course of an investigation. those are the kind of cases, obstructions that the department does. and, again, bob mueller is a creature of the department. so i just don't see him as being this sort of out-there, new thinker in terms of cases that the department's going to bring, especially against the president. >> by the book. that does make sense, thank you for your thoughts. appreciate it. still to come, my exclusive interview with the mayor of san juan, as puerto rico still struggles to recover from hurricane maria eight months later. plus, what to watch for in california's tuesday primaries

and why it could be make or break for the democrats' bid to retake the house. "kacie d.c." back right after this. just one free hearing test at

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can can c the president was not, did not draft the response. the response was, came from donald trump jr. i'm sure in consultation with his lawyer. but i do want to be clear the president was not involved in the drafting of the statement. >> jay would have to answer that. i've talked to home abo-- him at

it. i think jay was wrong. this is the reason that you don't let the president testify. our recollection keeps changing. or you make an assumption. in my case, i maid de an assumption. i this that's what happened here. >> lot of contradiction going on there. >> yeah, our recollection keeps changing. the frayed thphrase that i thing to echo for a while. it's a key point, i assume sarah sanders deigns to have a press conference tomorrow she'll be asked about it. to refresh people's memory, that statement was put together on air force one on the way back, the president was coming back from europe, explaining don jr.'s meeting at the trump tower in 2016 with russians who claimed to have dirt on hillary clinton.

now in this memo that was released over the weekend, the president is, attorneys are admitting that he was involved. he did in fact dictate, which could be problematic. >> donald trump jr. said that he didn't talk to his father. he didn't recall talking to his father about this memo, about the meeting, about the russia investigation. there are so many contradicting statements thrown around that the stakes are even higher for a presidential interview than they were before which is something his aides are clearly worried about and should be more worried about now. just last week, the president was tweeting he never fired comb ov -- comey over russia. that's a prime example of how i can't keep his statements straight. joil giuliani is confused by it. and i don't see how can he move forward in a way where he's not further implicating himself. >> clint, you're the author of

the new book "messing with the enemy." surviving in this era of russians, hackers and fake news which i would highly recommend to everyone. although we've spoken about before, i found some of this a little bit nerve-wracking, partly for the reasons that we are talking about right here, which is how real fake news as in news that is wholesale-ly create by organizations that seek to do americans harm can impact the very fundamental quality of our elections and our democratic system. >> yeah, we saw it today. that's, change the message and the messenger over time, confuse facts and fiction, muddy the water so the truth is impossible to find. that's why you can call it fake news. so it's an interesting dynamic. i've watched this with the terrorism case studies going back to the arab spring, but what's been interesting is trump has overtaken the gop.

we saw john boehner talking this past weekend about how there is no gop, and now we have another one coming up, the resistance and the blue wave of social media power populism. and how will that integrate with the democrats. i think what's fascinating to watch moving forward, we worried about the russians in 2016 and going into 2017. but in 2018, the russians are just one of many social media manipulators out there, and i'm personally observe beiing the ts used by the kremlin whether it -- when it is americans doing this, political activists. it won't be russian actors we'll have to worry about. and social media tens continuese a major battleground. in 2018 we'll see a new dynamic. >> you write, the quest to pull

back the curtain on conspiracy real or imagined has pushed social media users to pufall ba on their bosses. people read things they want to believe are true, they believe them and get angry about them without necessarily either stopping to think about it or having the tools, and, you know, big tech, i think, plays some culpable role here to be able to figure out what's fact and what's fiction. >> what is really seen is preference bubbles. it's not just a filter. we are choosing through likes, retweets and clicks the information bubble we want to be in. what we have to remember is if we want to survive through all of this, there's two big things. one, if it doesn't make us better, why do we keep doing it? what is the value of these connections? social media is really starting to tear all of us apart.

always value real relationships over virtual ones. there's an interesting new study coming out talking about the decreased time at thanksgiving for families that were traveling across the partisan divide. they spent less time together. that means we have social media nations popping up in the world that are overcoming real nations. i think the great example from the russian interference is not that they won an election but they unified the alternative right audience stretching from germany and the united states. you are more defined by your hash tags and avatars than you are by the flag that you used to be seen in terms of your country. >> anmore alarming way to frame it. after fighting at the dinner table a lot of people aren't going to their family. appreciate it. just ahead, if you want to know

how important california is for democrats' hopes of taking back the house, president obama is coming out of retirement for a fundraiser. the state has a slough of big primaries on tuesday. we'll talk about that. but first, we'll talk to the ma of san juan after a shocking report estimates the death toll in puerto rico could be in the thousands. we're back after this. they're all going in the same direction but in very different ways and pampers gives all of them our driest best fitting diaper. pampers cruisers with three-way fit. they adapt at the waist, legs and bottom with up to twelve hours of protection for all the freedom to move their way in pampers cruisers only pampers diapers are the number one choice of hospitals,

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welcome back to "kacie d.c." it has been eight months since hurricane maria devastated puerto rico. and there's still no definitive death toll. this week, harvard university released a stunning new report which estimates thousands more people died after hurricane maria than the island's government previously acknowledged. the official estimate was that 64 people died as a result of the storm. but by comparing the overall death rate on the island to the same period to the year before, the harvard study found as many as 4,645 people died last year. joining me from puerto rico is the mayor of san juan, thank you for being with us tonight. i very much appreciate your time. i want to start with this new

death toll. this has to be incredibly frustrating for you, for the residents of the island to still all of this time later not have the toll officially acknowledged. >> not only is it frustrating, but it's something that early in late september myself and other voices in puerto rico were speaking out, and remember when i had to say, we are dying here, and you are killing us, with your bureaucracy and inefficiency. we turned to the lack of rapid and robust aid proicvided by th administration. the government released an unofficial count of 1,397 deaths more. so it means it's about 20 times more than they initially said. in times of crisis, there's two things you can do.

you speak up and tell the truth and call powers to be to do what they have to do. or you stand down, are silent and become an accomplice to what is to come. so why is the puerto rican government not pushing hard enough to get the right amo of people? look, these are lives. these are people, fathers, mothers, children, that will never see the light of day. and we still have towns where most of the population, today, has no electricity. people still depend on r respirators, and their generators are giving way. so the call is to learn lessons, a hard lesson, to have a period of mourning in puerto rico but to make that mourn being become action. >> mayor, it seems unfathomable that if there were thousands of people killed in the continental u.s. and then a year went by and many towns had no electricity that this wouldn't be something

that is covered day in and tday out. what do you say to americans who live in the continental united stes. you, of course are american citizens. >> two things. as nothing to do with citizenship. this has to do with being humans. there's a moral imperative and a human imperative. it is true the trump administration has looked away from his moral imperative. but the american people have risen to the occasion. we have continued to have volunteers come in. i was just this weekend in minnesota. and the minnesota were giving $150,000 to. a group of people in minneapolis who have been working every since the hurricanes came along. look, president trump tweets about the crack of dawn. and he hasn't even tweeted one time to say look, i mourn with the people of puerto rico.

so this total neglect has to be called upon. the united nations says that when people are denied their right to acces to basic human services, like electric power, like water, like food, like appropriate medical care, that it is a violation of human rights. so when the federal government has failed, the american people, the diaspora have really come to the rescue. now this is the worst-case scenario, and what i would very much as a human, as a puerto rican, as a mayor, would hike to see is for the hard lessons learned here in maria to be used so they don't happen anywhere, so they don't happen in houston or new orleans or new york city or florida. you know, as the president said, we are an island, surrounded by water. lots and lots of water. ocean water. that's an actual quote from the fre president of the united states, but what is staggering is that

the trump administration has completely looked away when this death toll is announced. what is for real, we may not ever know how many people died, is that hundreds or thousands died and that the government of puerto rico remains silent and idle, while the federal government under the trump administration was looking and continues to look the other way and make things very difficult for the puerto rican people. >> your point is well taken. we should note that the trump administration d talk about this initially when it happened, but of course it has not been at the front and center of what the president has been talking about by any stretch of the imagination. i want to ask you about what happens next. we are entering another hurricane season. is puerto rico ready to grapple with another storm if there is one? >> no, we're not. even in san juan, we have done everything that we can humanly possible. for example in san juan, for nine diagnostic centers at our hospital, we have generators.

we have ensured that we have medication and medical and surgical equipment for one month. but that's not the case in other towns in puerto rico, because of a financial situation. we have to know that there was another storm was brewing before even maria camealong, which was the fiscal control board. made storm. we had a debt, and that's on us. we took too much money on, we owe too much money, but people should not be denied basic human rights because of that. we are rig. 55% increase in suicide attempts. there we 500,000 blue roofs or tarps placed either by fema, volunteers or the army corps of engineer. it is unknown how many of those have really converted into appropriate and stable and permanent roofs. so it doesn't have to be a category five hurricane like

irma or maria. it can be a category one hurricane. and we will be in a very difficult situation. >> our hearts are with you, and we will of course be following everything going down on the island as hopefully you are able to continue your recovery. thanks so much. when we continue, are democrats on the verge of blowing a historic opportunity in california? election guru dave wasserman stops by next. booking a flight at the last minute doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight

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tonight's debate is between tech entrepreneur harley rudda and dana. >> if you're not going to let me say anything, it's good-bye. >> can you introduce yourself? >> i am the chairman of the europe, asian and, europe a and eur-asian committee. >> that was george from seinfeld fame. in a state where they are hoping to wein back seats, california' primaries are becoming a bit of a mess. strategists worry they could

split the vote and pave the way for republicans to win. that's because in california, primaries are taking place on tuesday, the top two finishers, regardless of party will face off. there are mixed signals from the party since the national party ed rouda, while the state party issen dorsing keirstead. >> who did you vote for? >> was i bernie or hillary? hillary. it would have been hillary, but, yeah. >> so you voted for hillary in the 2016 primary? >> oh, in the primary, i'm sorry. in the primary election, no. i didn't vote. >> and do you want to explain why? >> you know, i missed a vote. i missed that vote. so good catch, harley. >> wait, i think you've actually missed every primary.

>> so i've lived in the united states for eight years. and 18years, sorry, and i've missed some votes. i missed the primaries. i've been working on, like a lot of people, i've been busy. >> oh, dear. joining me now is house editor for the cook political report, dave wasserman. good to see you again. we love having you right before these big primaries, this one in particular, a difficult one for democrats, mostly because of the piles of candidates like thos, e some of whom are not vetted or haven't necessarily been chosen by the national party and who quite frankly could crowd out some of the other nominees and land two republicans on the ballot. >> we're seeing an explosion of democratic candidates. in california it's giving them fits because of the top two jungle primary where everyone

appears on the same ballot and the top two finishers, regardless of party advance. now california is the single-most important state to democrats' bid to get the house back. because they have a lead in the delegation. 17 of those republicans sit in districts that hillary won. if they pick them off, that's almost a third that they need to take back the majority. but if two republicans advance in any of these three districts where there's a chance of that happening, then it takes those districts off the map entirely. >> and which one would you say is the most likely, to explain to viewers just tuning in right now? >> i know it's complicated. two weeks ago i would have told you that the democrats were at risk in california 48, that is rohr backer's seat. he has a republican challenger who is more of a mainstream

conservative. dana rohrbacher is this pro-julian assange libertarian. >> got you. >> ablnd so there's a mass of democrats running there, including harley rouda. now the biggest threat is the 39th district, this is ed royce's district. and you have two millionaires on the democratic side who really don't like each other very much, neither of whom would make perfect general election candidates. one is a lottery winner. megamillions jackpot winners has to be the least sympathetic. >> in this current environment, yeah. you've been doing a lot of work on this for axios. what is the big picture here for democrats? one emerging criticism of the way democratic leadership has

been handling all this is to assume that the anti-trump fervor is going to carry things and they don't have to do a lot of self-reflection about how they need to make changes to went back twin back the house. >> i think the california primary is an interesting example of the so-called civil war within the democrat party. part of the reason the top two system was created was the hope that they would become more moderate and less partisan. we've seen the exact opposite happening where the state party is investing in moderate, centrist candidates and the hyperprogressive groups will invest heavily in progressive candidates or against folks like harley rouda who they think are just not good enough. that's the big picture, seeing how democrats don't have the message that's only anti-trump, but these activists are coming out in force in california and sort of ruining the chances for more centrist candidates to get

ahead and also increasing the chances that they could be locked out of some of these districts. one more thing about the top two is in the 25th district, the one running for reelection benefitted from the lockout in 2014. he was going up against a republican because democrats had been locked out of that election in 2014. i think that's interesting because's benefitted from it before. >> let's talk, too, about the governor's race, where does that stand? >> democrats are worried about getting locked out. republicans are worried about getting locked out of state-wide races because they feel if there are two democrats on the ballot for governor and senator republican voters won't have a reason to show up and vote in the fall which could jeopardize their majority. they have gotten behind john cox to avoid thatappening. >> that's an interesting undercurrent. you have kevin mccarthy and

nancy pelosi both from california. one or the other likely the next speaker of the house kind of having another chance to fight it out in this race. >> this is a proxy battle here. and it is, democrats have such a heavy lift to switch the house. there's obviously, the gerrymandering is tough. this would be a blow to some california races that they should win. it would be devastating to their chances to flip it in november. and certainly, republicans are aware of that, democrat's certain -- donald trump is not going to weigh in. even if he's able to survive the mueller probe, the democrats in the house are just going to tie up the next two years in investigation after investigation, hearing after hearing, and it's a major threat to the presidency. >> if on the election night in the general election in november we're talking about a one or

two-seat majority it could be that we come a back to what happens on tuesday. coming up right after "kacie d.c.," stay tuned for an intimate portrait of jfk. >> i just wanted to keep going. little babies, and people crying. some people carrying flowers. was america on that train. >> you see imagery as his body passes on the train. they're wealthy and poor and black and white, they're young and they're old. >> i think it is amazing how many different types of people that my grandfather touched. >> msnbc's "headliners" takes an in-depth look at robert f.

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thanks so much for having me. congratulations to the class of 2018.

>> jimmy fallon speaking at marjory stoneman douglas high school today. his message, don't let anything stop you. nearly four months ago, they were devastated after a gunman shot and killed 14 students and three faculty members. four of the victims would have graduated today. their families accepted diplomas on their behalf. in the months since the tragedy, the community has rallied. some parents have assembled a political action committee to take on the nra. all of this comes as americans across the country recognized wear orange where they seek to bring awareness to gun violence and those it affects. when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. (vo) i was born during the winter of '77. i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop.

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when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. ithe race for governort. has turned into a scam gavin newsom's trying to elect a republican who was endorsed by trump. and villaraigosa's being bankrolled by a handful of billionaires. it's everything that's wrong with politics. and none of it is helping struggling families. here's my pledge to you. i'll keep our budget balanced. invest in affordable housing. fight for universal healthcare. and stand up to donald trump. as governor, you can trust me to do what's rht because i always have. californians are leading against donald trump. our senator should, too. kevin de león is the only candidate for senate who passed laws protecting immigrants from trump... and helped dreamers stay in school.

he led bold action against climate change. and only de león fought for universal, medicare for all. democrat kevin de león the only true progressive for senate. change california now is responsible for the content of this advertising. i think they ha tried by and large to cover this investigation based on the facts. i think if the rolls were reversed -- this is me just talking, but based on my experience, if there were a democratic president and these facts, most people believe impeachment hearings would have begun already. >> remarkable comment from bill clinton. let's talk about what you are watching in the week ahead. >> in addition to the california primaries, interesting iowa primaries on tuesday, the first district. there's a woman who is taking on

rod blum. thursday, paul ryan promised a two-hour meeting to talk about immigration and hash out their differences. i don't expect they will come out with a unified plan. >> i will be watching north korea. you will remember the summit was on, it was then off and then last week it was on again. i'm curious to see it f thf it e off before it is on again next week. >> you think ultimately the summit happens? >> no doubt. >> rightly, the world is watching that piece of the president's international travel, the plan for singapore next week. prior to that he has another stop. he leaves friday for the g7 meetings in canada. where he will meet with not just justin trudeau but the uk and germany leaders. i imagine tariffs and trade might come up after the last few days. i suspect the president will not get a warm welcome. >> i actually -- we are reporting melania will not accompany the president to the

g7. she's not going to singapore. i'm watching to see if she reassured soon. we will be back next sunday from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. for now, good night from washington. what i think is quite clear is the country wants to move in a different direction. >> a half century after his death, robert f. kennedy remains a hero to millions of americans. he was tough. >> whose back are you going to break? >> yet compassionate and idealistic. >> negro citizens are being treated as second class people. that's something that needs to be done about it. >> today as in 1968, america is deeply divided. >> what's going on in poor communities, what's happening to families that are struggling, that's what we ought to be looking at. >> robert kennedy's life