communique that would be without the united states. we have breaking news coming out of canada on that topic that the united states will in the end join in that communique. kristen welker has been following the president to canada. he's left. she has the latest on the communique. >> reporter: we know it's going to cover a range of different topics, everything from trade to security, women's rights issues, as well as climate. of course, as you and i have been discussing, the devil's going to be in the details. what specifically tell say about trade, one of the thorniest issues after president trump imposed new tariffs on some of america's closest allies including the g7 countries. president trump is tweeting about all of this. let me read you a couple of his tweets to give you a sense of what he's saying. just left the g7 summit in

beautiful canada. great meetings and relationships with the six country leaders, especially since they know i cannot allow them to apply large tariffs and strong barriers to usa trade. they fully understand where i'm coming from. after many decades, fair and reciprocal trade will happen. president trump putting the focus on trade say, look, they understand where i'm coming from. will that be reflected in the communikay? we'll have to wait and see. the president before he left really had some of his toughest language yet when it came to the issue of tariffs saying, essentially, that he wanted these other countries to lower trade barriers. and if they didn't, there could be consequences. so issuing an ultimatum. it was significant that he signed on to the communique.

it wasn't clear that he was going to given that there were such sharp differences. the optics, the president saying, look, i'm not prepared to break away from this group of what a lot of people were calling the six, yet, saying i'm going to hang in there as we try to come to resolution on this issue. he now heads to singapore and the all-important face to face with kim jong-un. >> for those just joining us at the top of the hour here at 5:00 p.m. eastern time, remind us the context. the idea of the group of six, g6, what's also been said the g1 or g2, right, the united states plus russia because the president was mentioning that on his embarkment to the meeting saying, hey, why is russia not here. remind us of the context of why they may not have come together on something they could put in black and white. >> reporter: there were so many differences, and not just on the issue of trade, but on the issue

of iran -- a lot of the countries here disagreed with president trump's decision to pull out of the nuclear deal and a year ago, pulling out of the paris climate agreement. there was a sense that there were so many sharp differences. the united states came in -- he came be grudgingly, coming in an hour late, and leaving earlier. a lot of people referring it -- as to it as the g6-plus summit. the fact that president trump has signed on to the communique is a sign that he's not ready to look completely isolated on the world stage, even the policies and what he's pushing for certainly do put him apart from these other allies of the u.s. you mentioned russia, richard. that was a bombshell heading into the summit. the president saying russia

should rejoin the g7. it used to be the g8 with russia part of the group. russia's membership was suspended in 2014 after it annexed crimea. you had a very angry backlash essentially to the president's proposal. you had them saying russia continues to act illegally because it hasn't withdrawn from crimea. that is an illegal act. that was met with sharp resistance. italy really the only country indicating it would be open to allowing russia to come back in. so president trump not afraid to mix it up and dig in on thorny issues. the president saying we have to deal with russia in order to resolve broader issues, but again, a lot of these allied countries say that is the wrong way to go about it. that's the backdrop as president trump heads into the historic face to face with kim jong-un. and by the way, a lot of questions to the white house in the days leading up to the summit. does it not undermine his strength to not have this unified front going into those

talks with kim jong-un? the white house indicating that wasn't going to be an issue. president trump himself striking a note of confidence earlier in his news conference today. >> yeah. you know, we have to wonder what they might have agreed upon based on that great context that you gave us on the lead-up, as well as what happened. you're on the ground, and you understand the mood of the discussion so far. of note, the president leaving before the important topics of climate which you were highlighting there because of the united states withdrawing from the paris agreement. and then justin trudeau moments ago when you were watching, coming to the microphones, right, at the end of the g7 gathering. in essence, saying they won't be pushed around by trump, by president trump, and in addition to that, really -- you know, putting a pole in the ground, a flag in the ground about in tha? >> reporter: i think there's

going to be a lot of language in that space. i think that's absolutely right. justin trudeau making that one of his key issues. remember, where this day started, that breakfast to deal with gender equality, and then there was a working session on that same issue. i was told talking to some of the participants in that breakfast, it was a very robust discussion. everyone agreed there needs to be more investment in women's and girls. i -- in women and girls. i think that you are going to see a lot of the language in the communique centered around that very important issue. and of course, we go back to the question of optics. president trump arriving at that breakfast about 15 minutes late. some of the participants said, look, that wasn't a big deal. they were just glad that he was there, that he listened, that there was an interest. at the same time, these optics do start to add up when you have the president arriving at the summit late and leaving early, underscoring what we've been talking about, that there does seem to be this divide between the united states and some of

its closest allies. >> we've got to go, but i can't help but ask you this -- as put the g7 into context but then you have the president leaving to go to singapore, right, and speak with kim jong-un, how is that all together being received there on the ground in canada? what were some of the reflections and storylines coming out of the different camps that you heard about? >> reporter: well, that is one area where everyone wants to see the president get exactly what he's asking for, which is denuclearization. i think you're hearing a lot of the leaders here in their public remarks say they want the president to be successful in these talks. they think it's critical, not only to the security of the region but to global security. the stakes could not be higher. that, frankly, is why the administration is saying the president wanted to leave a few hours earlier, he wants to be prepared for this. how has he been preparing? we know he's been getting briefed regularly by his

secretary of state. but he himself was askedbout this on friday. how has he been preparing, and he responded by saying he's been preparing his entire life. he was really trying to send the signal and remind the international community that he ran on being the dealmaker-in-chief, and that he goes into these sensitive negotiations trying to get the biggest deal of his life, richard. >> yeah. and secretary of state mike pompeo saying he's been preparing for months. so they're saying there's a lot of backup to this meeting in advance. so great to have you. white house correspondent there covering the president's visit at the g7 with the very latest and breaking news of the communique. we can't twice get our hands on it to find out what -- we can't wait to get our hands on it to find out what is in it. thank you very much. >> thank you. lindsey ford, former senior adviser to the assistant secretary of defense for asian and pacific security affairs, professor of korean studies at the fletcher school at tufts university, and stafford university director, domestic policy studies. let's start with you, sung-yun,

on this. there's been so much to talk about in terms of what this might mean in terms of north korea, and i'll -- i'll start with that because kristen welker was saying full support from the g7 here, saying go get them. on the flip side at the g7, they're saying i don't know, i don't know if we support the things that you're doing outside of that one area. is that one space you believe here that will get the support of most nations? >> well, yes. and i expect a resounding success story, successful summit for north korea. you know, the last time a u.s. president was gearing up for a summit with its north korean counterpart was in now. great dividends accrued for kim jong-un. his father came out of his social shell and started to engage his neighbors, paid his first visit to china six years after coming to power in may, 2000, as kim jong-un did six years after inheriting power in

march this year. and then he hello an inter-korean -- he held an inter-korean summit in june, received vladimir putin in pyongyang, the first-ever visit it was by a soviet eor russian leader and turned to softening up the u.s. and received secretary of state madeleine albright. and then he came across as a reasonable global statesman, and engaged the region and reaped billions of dollars with which he further advanced his nation's nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities. history is repeating itself. >> you were just in singapore not more than a handful of days ago. what was it like? what was the sentiment on the ground? what was the sense of hope as they prepared? the preparations still ongoing, the president going to be there in a matter of, what, 10, 12 hours or so? >> yeah, richard, i think that there were sort of two very

different sets of feelings on the ground in east asia, singapore, and our allied countries in northeast asia. the first sentiment was one of great hope, one of great hopefulness that these discussions will be productive, that they will yield a good pathway forward toward denuclearization of the korean peninsula. that was certainly one sentiment. then on the other hand, richard, also a sense that the united states in a lot of ways has been walking away or distancing itself from traditional relationships. we saw some of this at the g7 summit ahead of the g7 summit, some of the tension with prime minister trudeau, as well as with president macron of france. in a similar way in east asia, there's some concern that the united states is going its own way, even if it means compromising the traditional relationships, maybe even with the japanese in the region. while there is great hopefulness, i think everyone certainly expects and hopes that good things will come out of this discussion. there's concern at the same time about the american poss youtube

vis-a-vis our traditional friends and allies in the region and around the world. >> lindsay, the timeline is long, and you've been watching this as we look at north korea going back to, what, 1992, 1993, and further beyond. we went to the six-party talks. we're now in a hopeful space potentially. i think most world leaders would like to see something positive. . where are we in the timeline? we're in 2018. we're going to have june 12th on the timeline. what will it read? >> i actually think that the date that we ought to all be paying attention to right now is june 13th, not june 12th. >> okay. >> we've all been talking about the summit and what happens at the summit. really, the hard work begins on june 13. the reality is on june 13, we wake up, north korea still has nuclear weapons, and that's when you actually get to work trying to implement whatever statement of pinellas it is that the president comes out of -- of

principles it is that the president comes out of the summit with. how do you create the process that doesn't allow north korea to stall or to cheat or to sfwul some of the traps that have bedeviled us so many times in the past. i mean, we've been at this place more than once over the years. >> so true. and sung-yoon, what might be different this time, and who would be the actors you'd watch? would it be mike pompeo, moon jae-in? >> it would be kim jong-un. and this is what's going to happen -- president trump will agree to endorse a loose, open-ended agreement, agreement calling for protracted negotiation process, not actually a negotiated agreement, during which time kim jong-un will be able to buy further time and money with which to perfect his own nuclear posture review.

president trump will be ensnared in this process. it will be difficult to walk away as kim jong-un violates. and he will say let's meet again, i'll come to new york city, speak at the u.n. general assembly, e to the white house, and please come to north korea. and through that kind of gestures, kim jong-un will come across as a reasonable peace-seeking global statesman. although the more appropriate destination in my humble estimation is the international criminal court in the hague. >> which will be another big chapter. as you were meeting with officials and leaders there in asia over the last couple of weeks, we understand the multilateral dynamic of the way the story and the negotiations will be ongoing with north korea are. do they feel, japan, for instance, shinzo abe, in the united states just this week, does the leader of taiwan also factor into -- yes -- and we talk about all the other major countries in that region.

do they feel that their voices are being heard and need to be heard in these debates, in this very negotiation? >> well, all of them certainly want their voices to be heard. there's no question about it. prime minister abe coming to the white house on thursday of last week to express, for example, his concern that the issue of the abduction of japanese citizens in north korea continues to be an item at the top of the agenda. he wanted to remind the president of the importance of that. you have countries additionally beyond just the south koreans who have obvious equities here. as you say, friends and will allies in southeast asia, certainly in singapore, on taiwan, that administration obviously is trying, i think, its best to stay out of the situation, recognizing that it's at a tense moment in its relationship with mainland china. there are a lot of complicated dynamics in the region. the question is if the united states seems to be willing to walk away from some of its traditional associations, if those are no longer as important in this administration, what

does it mean for the region? that is the big question mark, whether it's on issues of human rights or on issues of trade, more -- more practically speaking. i think there are big question marks. >> lindsay, as we wrap this up, who comes out the winner here? is it very easy for north korea to come out a winner here? does china come out the winner no matter what happens? >> i think, unfortunately, it's hard to see how kim jong-un doesn't come out of this situation with a stronger hand than he went into it with. the reality is that he's already made a huge transition and reaped huge gains over the last couple of months moving from sort of isolated international pariah to a global leader who's sitting down with other world leaders, looking like a very sort of normal nation on the international stage. and when you walk away from this, he's either going to get, he's going to get a deal, he's going to get to move toward normalization, or if they

tonight gdon't get a deal, regardless it's hard to see how he puts together a maximum pressure campaign. i don't see china, south korea, some of the other nations being willing to enforce sanctions in the same way. either way, i think kim jong-un continues to strengthen his hand moving forward. >> yeah. all can agree part of the winning formula here are the north koreans themselves, and i was speaking with park hie- yun escaped from north korea, and she was sharing how she can't believe this discussion is happening today. but she hopes one day she can go back. so many people hope that folks like her can come back as well as north koreans themselves can be reunited with their sisters and brothers in the south, there in south korea. thank you all three. great conversation. appreciate it. >> thank you. after promising a crackdown on the leakers, the justice department's charges on a former senate worker for lying to the

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it's very interesting that they caught a leaker in a very important -- a very important leaker. so it's very interesting. i'm a big, big believer in freedom of the press. but i'm also a believer in classified information, has to remain classified. and that includes comey and his

ban band of thieves who leak classified information all over the place. so i'm a very big believer in freedom of the press, but i'm also a believer that you cannot leak classified information. >> the president talking about the indictment of a former top senate intel committee staffer, raising some new concerns about freedom of press and government tacti tactics. james wolf, the senate panel's security director, accused of lying to federal investigators who are looking into a potential leak of classified information to the media. "the new york times" reporting that prosecutors secretly obtained a year's worth of e-mail and phone data from one of its reporters, allie watkins, who purportedly had a romantic relationship with wolf. he, however, denies ever giving classified material to any journalists. let's bring in our former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york, john flannery, and msnbc national security analyst and former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, frank

agluzzi. frank, the question that is being put out there right now is what is it that might concern freedom of press in this particular story? what's your thought? >> it's the methodology that was used here that has everybody's attention. that means that traditionally leak investigations are conducted with attempting to fully respect and preserve freedom of the press. that means you target the leaker, but not necessarily the reporter. what we see in this case, richard, is a vacuuming up of this reporter's phone records, electronic communications, for a year or more, and that means that the department of justice may now have source information and who she's working, informants, sources, well beyond this case. and that -- that's sending a chilling effect. we need to watch this closely. it looks like a shot across the bow to journalists saying we may

be targeting you, as well. >> john, are there any guardrails -- frank brings up an interesting point here. any guardrails to keep them from using other information that they may have scooped up? >> no, there isn't. we're not enforcing the law anymore. while nixon had the plumbers to plu plug up leaks, we have sessions doing the same thing for mr. t. under investigation by the same department sort of by the special counsel. so what -- what were they doing? i think they work backwards from the fact that the leak that they charge involves carter page being recruited as a spy by the russians. that's what this is about. and what we're trying to keep from the public is the fact of that association. and so i think they work backwards from the published story and pulled up everything about this woman for "the new

york times." watkins, who wrote the story, wrote another one about how the cia was looking at the senate committee and measuring their keystrokes and using information to chase her. everything from her telephone calls, social media contact. and the justice department's own b.s. protocol provides that you're supposed to give notice to the reporter and give them a chance. and they chose an exception to ignore even that. and as for how many reporters, this is an attack on reporters. there's three times the number of investigations in the so-called department of justi u. there's attacks on reporters and richard nixon, and these ir-- these are not great comparisons. we need to do something about it. and justice is getting cooperation from the senate. the senate is giving them information in their so-called

secure investigations. this is downstairs. how the president could say that he's a friend of the press, he's done everything to attack the press in every way, shape, and form. he doesn't want the truth out, and our government's at risk because of an attack on the fourth state. on journalists that keep the government safe and secure, by giving us the information so that we, the public, can know what's going on. this is a shame and a disgrace. >> frank, as you may have wat watched the rankings of press freedom around the world, the you united states has dropped the last several years. is this going to get worse? john seems to believe and does note here some other developments that might say the guardrails might be off. >> this bears close watching. i'm not prepared to say this is completely unique because it's not completely unique. but -- but, however, let's look at the leaker. the leaker's not been charged with anything but lying to the

fbi. he's not been charged with mishandling classified, he's not been charged with espionage. so we've got to watch this closely, see with this is going. if there's a superseding indictment. if they're using, if the white house and doj are using attacks on journalists for their own benefit, to silence journalists, particularly in cases that they're not comfortable with, then we've got a problem for freedom of the press. >> all right. >> they don't want to talk about the underlying material, the content, because then that makes manifest what's going on. it was the philadelphia news story that talked about the nature of the information that is the subject of the leaks. carter page is one, and the cia surveilling supposedly a secure senate intelligence committee. >> we'll leave it there. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. pardon power. president trump's new occupation with pardons and the message it could be sending to the people indicted by robert mueller. (vo) we came here for the friends.

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president trump says he's looking over a list of thousands of names for potential pardons after commuting alice johnson's life sentence for a nonviolent drug offense. trump suggested there could be more, including one for the late boxing champion muhammad ali. ali was convicted of draft

evasion in 1967. that conviction later overturned by the u.s. supreme court. >> i'm thinking muhammad ali. i'm thinking about that very seriously and some others. others who have sentence that's aren't there. but i am thinking about muhammad ali. >> what will it take for you to fire -- >> in fact, we're doing right now recommendations -- frankly, we're doing recommendations on muhammad ali. >> all right. that along with martha stewart, former illinois governor rod blagojevich, as well as our three guests that have been watching, too, this in the aftermath of the nfl national anthem protests. again, the president talking about pardoning an athlete convicted of an act of political protest. eugene scott, alan smith for "the business insider," and charlie savage, "new york times"

washington correspondent and. pulitzer -- and pulitzer prize winner. >> where are we? >> the president has learned he has almost absolute power to pardon anyone he wants. we don't know whether he can pardon himself as he keeps proclaiming he can. it's accepted that he might be able to pardon everyone who needs a pardon. he's discovered that he can keep himself in the headlines by pardoning celebrities or people who have had their cause taken up by celebrities. he may -- this is the more nefarious interpretation -- be sending a message to people like paul manafort and michael cohen that they ought not flip on him because if they hold out he's willing to pardon people left and right. one of most interesting things about this sudden flurry of pardons that he's gotten himself into is that it's also a circumvention of the way most presidents have done this in the modern era which is to let the justice department which has an office of pardon attorney take

in applications, evaluate what happened in the case talk to the judges and prosecutors and victims years later and come one receptions so that at least there's a package of vetted information that goes to the white house counsel's office. here the trump seems to be as part of his general disrespect for the justice department and jeff sessions on down circumventing that and saying i'm going to do did how i want. the pardon of alice johnson particularly interesting because she was not only -- not only was the cause taken up by a celebrity which is one aspect of this, but what was at issue there was that she had a nonviolent drug offense but was serving a very long, in fact, a life sentence. that's the kind of thing which he said was unfair. that's the kind of thing that attorney general jeff sessions wants more of. he's wanting to go full tilt maximum sentences for drug offenses, and here the president is undercutting the policy. that's also an aspect that's interesting. >> yeah. a i do cot moukocot -- a dichot

message. people are asking what might be the signal or not here that the president is making. >> that's certainly possible. but if that is true, and even if it's not, i think what's worth paying more attention to is who is pardon. whether they are celebrities, friends of celebrities, had a referral from a celebrity, or people ingenuinely more harmful end of the process. by not going through the normal routine in which decisions are made, the president risks the opportunity to make some things right that have been wrong. when we look at who in fact is disproportionately impacted negatively by the criminal justice system, the demographics of those people do not match muhammad ali, jack johnson, martha stewart, governors from illinois, joe arpaio.

and these are the people who have the president's attention. the concern that i think a lot of americans have is whether or not the president will be looking out for the best interests of those on the wrong side of the justice system who are not celebrities or the president's friends. >> part of that alan, why muhammad ali, you think? >> look, the president clearly is attracted to doing this for celebrities. he's issued a lot of pardons for celebrities so far. it's a world he's very involved in. we know that president trump in his life as a businessman is involved in the boxing world. muhammad ali, he doesn't really need a pardon as he's had his conviction, you know, overturned. i mean it would be a addition for the president, but muhammad a ali's not necessarily someone who needs a presidential pardon. >> quick moving today, eugene, alan, charlie, thanks for stopping by. climate accord, trade, nato, and iran. just a few of the clashes the president has been involved in

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gillette, the best a man can get. i highlighted directly to the president that canadians did not take it lightly that the united states has moved forward with significant tariffs on our steel and aluminum industry, particularly did not take lightly the fact that it's based on a national security reason that for canadians who either themselves or whose parents or community members have stood shoulder to shoulder with american soldiers in far-off lands and conflicts from the first world war onwards, that it's kind of insulting, and i highlighted that it was not helping in our renegotiation of

nafta, and that it would be with regret but with absolute certainty and firmness that we move forward with retaliatory measures on july 1st, applying equivalent tariffs to the ones that the americans have unjustly applied to us. i have made it very clear to the president that it is not something we relish doing but something we absolutely will do. canadians, we're polite, we're reasonable, but we also will not be pushed around. >> that was the prime minister from canada, justin trudeau. traditionally having approaching the draerms ecameras at the end7 that just finished in the last hour or so, this there, again, the g7 summit. joining us, strategist basil smythe and republican strategist susan delpersdelpersio. this just in from the press conference.

traditional that we'd see all the leaders. the question was here, would the united states join the typical agreement, the communique, coming from all seven member states saying we agree on this, and this is what happened? it appears that there is some agreement. we don't know what it is necessarily. but what do you make of what you heard from justin trudeau there? really standing strong for his country. >> he is standing strong, and you know, you would think that some of that language would come from our european allies who are very upset. these are our neighbors. and you know, when you're president of the united states, you can't even align your continent -- that's troubling to me. and you know, in the conversation about these tariffs, there's word coming from the g7 that we could get rid of all of them. no one took him seriously, although the german chancellor may have taken him a little seriously. he was trying to be rhetorical. i don't think he cares how much the world hangs on his every word. and to anger our partners, even

on our own continent, is distressing. the truth is, i don't think the president really cares. >> you know, that may be changing, friends here, in terms of world leaders thinking that every word that comes out of this president's tweets and such and so, that they're hanging on what is being said. i'll give an example, susan. france's emmanuel macron saying that the g7 including trump has an agreement on trade. he's waiting to see that happen. then trudeau saying, hey, we're not going to be pushed around here in canada. so we're seeing some mixed messages. we haven't -- the exact details of the communique as of yet, haven't seen it yet, susan. >> one thing we're seeing is that while european leaders and as well as the prime minister of canada sought to kind of see if they can make it through four years with donald trump and just kind of see how they can maneuver, they are now not going to be bullied. donald trump is a bully. that's how he usually takes force.

they are going -- they are standing up to him even in this communique. these leaders are showing that they will stay strong. so it's a very interesting proposition for president trump to have to decide to staick to the tariff plan when he's going to be up for re-election in just 2.5 years. >> you know, basil, interesting part, theresa may, prime minister from the united kingdom, saying moments ago it is right to air disagreements open leap about trade -- i'm paraphrasing here -- they have done so with the united states at the g7 summit. also saying that they have agreed to take further measures against russia if needed. this on the backdrop of the president saying, hey, i'd love to have russia back into this group here. we're reaching a new way potentially of the way this group you see on the screen right now will be, this world order thing that has been brought up. >> right. and i'm actually -- i go back to

susan's point, as well. the president is making a clear decision that he wants to be somewhat isolationist. he also deals in diplomacy with people he has a very specific type of relationship with including vladimir putin, which clearly has angered a lot of his allies. so it is really disruptive for sort of -- for the world order. but i do think that when the president of the united states speaks, the world does listen. i do understand and agree that they're going to -- they're not going to be bullied here. but it ultimately, it actually just hurts us. further isolates us. but not in a way that necessarily generates momentum for our economy or for the people that support it, donald trump and middle america. it is very disruptive. and i do think you have more world leaders speaking out against it. but i do also wonder whether or not republicans here in our own country are actually going to be speaking up against the president and hold him a little more accountable than -- than they have been.

>> right. susan, a part of this as you look at an eu readjusting, we can call, you know, eu v2, as they are looking at not only britain, the other issues when it comes to monetary policy, other new members. the united states taking a step back. who steps in, and you heard the theme -- it's figure to be china because of -- it's going to be the silk road because of china, a new pact because of the united states. they're saying maybe we don't need the united states. >> what's interesting, and i'd like to follow up on something that basil said, this isn't -- this is supposed to be about diplomacy. donald trump has made it about personal relationships. andings that not what the president of the united states -- and that's not what the president of the united states is supposed to do. if he had any sense of history, you are the president of the united states, you have a relationship with these countries. leaders come and go.

we're supposed to be a beacon. we are supposed to stand strong with our allies. the fact that we can concede groun ground to china that could become a threat to us more than anything else, via what donald trump says during the aluminum tariffs, is crazy. we need to remember who we are as a nation. it's not just about one person. it's the office of the president. >> the idea of globalism being tested and discussed now. thank you both. >> thank you. next, why the president could be at the center of colin kaepernick's case against the nfl. life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points

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you shouldn't go in a locker room when your national anthem is played. and i'm going to ask them to recommend to me people that were unfairly treated, friends of theirs or people that they know about, and i'm going to take a look at those applications. if i find, and my committee finds that they are unfairly treated, then we will pardon them, or at least let them out.

>> president trump friday again take talking there about the nfl national anthem controversy. again criticizing players who choose not to stand for the anthem. now yahoo sports is reporting the president and vice president mike pence could be subpoenaed to testify in former quarterback collin kaepernickese legal batte involving that issue of player protests. let's go to charles robbinson. charles, how might the president and the vice president be subpoenaed here? what might lead to that? >> it is a little bit of a labyrinth. essentially the collusion case for colin kaepernick has collected a number of depositions at this stage from a number of nfl power brokers, including four nfl owners of it's the content of those depositions that's really driving this. within that content some of the things that have leaked out of really depositions that are under seal is that trump had direct dialogue with at least a couple of owners about kneeling

players, the national anthem, how this has all played together and where it stood for him politically as an issue. essentially when colin kaepernick's camp filed this trump was behind it as a clueding force behind the nfl and what he was bringing to the table from the highest pulpit basically in the land. now they are getting to the point where they feel like they have enough information to bring to the system arbitrator and potentially a federal judge in a district court to say we need to talk to donald trump at this point. we need to talk to mike pence and really any other administration official who is familiar with the pressure the president of the united states has put on the nfl when it comes to kneeling players and colin kaeperni kaepernick. >> what would happen next, rudy giuliani one of the president's personal lawyers -- what would be the tactic to say no, the

president does not need to be here? >> really, if it comes down to subpoenas actually being issued and trump and pence and any other administration officials willing compelled to sit for a composition, would they even comply? right now, remember, when it comes to trump's legal team they have said that robert mueller's department of justice investigation a criminal probe, they don't necessarily feel that president trump would even comply with a subpoena in a criminal probe. caber knick's is civil, a collusion case that involves the nfl. you would think a criminal probe from the u.s. deputy of justice would tend to have more teeth. at that stage, if president trump were to say look i don't feel like i need to sit for a deposition, mike pence doesn't need the sit for a deposition nor does anybody else in my administration when it comes to collin kaepernick's fight with the nfl it would be up to the court system to decide whether or not it wants to hold president trump accountable. that's where this labyrinth

comes in. we don't know what that hurdle is going the look like until it gets here. >> you saw the president before he left for the g7. we played that he was saying i'm going to talk to those who may have been treated wrongly is what he is saying. i'm going to find out who they know. and i may consider them for pardons. put that all together for us. >> i don't want to speak for colin kaepernicker any of the other players who have protested. but i will say this, this idea of crowd sourcing celebrities for pardons or what each look like pardons that become political capital for trump heading into the mid terms i don't know that callin kaepernick or other players want to be part of that. there are alice johnson's out there in world, people who may deserve their sentences commuted but ultimately what the players and colin kaepernick have said repeatedly is we are trying to get to what's systemic. what's creating the alice onsons

of the worlds. if the president wanted the talk about that, i think they would be open to it. >> you have seen the poll. the numbers show 58% believe that nfl players who kneel are unpatriotic. that was the question. is it. 58%, no. charles quickly, 15 second, your thought? >> i think it's all about framing. politically we have one camp framing it as being about patriotism. when you listen to the message of the players they have laid out that it is not about the anthem or politics. it's about systemic problems we are trying to fix. >> charles robbinson, thank you, from yahoo sports. that wraps it up for us here this hour at msnbc i'm richard louie, follow me on facebook, instagram, and twitter. all in with chris haze is next. thanks for sticking around. you have a great afternoon. truecar is great for finding new cars.

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tonight on all in. >> why are we having a meeting without russia being in the meeting? >> the president stump force the kremlin. >> russia should be in this meeting. >> as the man who ran his campaign is indicted for conspiring with a subjected russian agent. >> that's what he said. and that's what i said. >> tonight what we know about the new charges from the special counsel. >> will you pardon paul manafort? >> and senator chris murphy on the president's attack on western alliances. plus, how trump world is using the arrest of a senate intel staffer to undermine robert mutualer. >> happened last night.