share his admiration for autocratic rulers, praising china's xi jinping for his iron grip on his government and dismissing kim jong un's brutal treatment, imprisonment and murder of those who he suspects of opposing his regime. take a look. >> i have a very good relationship with president xi. of china. he's you know, incredible guy. just essentially president for life. that's pretty good. >> chairman kim wants to resolve the problem we have a very, i really say for fairly short-term relationship, because it was unbelievably hostile, the rhetoric, rhetorically it was unbelievably hostile and i think we have a very good relationship. we understand each other. >> you know you call people sometimes killers, he is a killer. he's executing people. >> he's a tough guy. when you take over a country.

tough country, with tough people and you take it over from your father, i don't care who you are, what you are, how much of an advantage you have, if you can do that at 27 years old, that's one in 10,000 that can do that. he's a very smart guy. he's a great negotiator. but i think we understand each other. >> he's still done some really bad things. >> yeah, but so have a lot of other people done some really bad things. i can go through a lot of nations where really bad things were done. >> joe, i'll let you start things off this morning. >> well you really can't go to any other countries that are quite as repressive and brutal as north korea is. you can't find an example of a country on the planet, that's more oppressive. whose tyrant that runs it, is more cruel, more bleak.

of course you know as we all know, an ohio college student was oent there and was held captive and brutally beaten to death. pregnant women are made to dance on tables until they dehydrate and pass out. people that have to go before kim have to do so crawling on their knees. people in disfavor, even in his home family are tortured and killed. as willie said earlier this week. read the u.n. report. human rights, there's absolutely despicable. and yet donald trump in writing all this down. he talks about how he's a very talented man. he's a great man. he says president xi in china is an incredible guy. president xi in china of course is a man who brutally, brutally still represses the people of china. that don't line up under the

communist regime. and he has seized power over the past year to make him the most powerful leader in china. foreign policy observers and china observers say, since chairman mao, who was -- chairman mao, for killing perhaps 40 million to 60 million of his own people. but how revealing that donald trump praises president kpi and says he's an incredible guy, because he's able to be president for life and how incredible that he calls the most tyrannical dictator on the globe. the most cruel dictator on the globe, a great guy and then defends him and says, you got to do what you got to do. we kill a lot of people, too. as i heard that i know mika, you and willie and mike, and everybody else on the set had to go back to the interview we had with donald trump in december 20 2015, three months before the first republican primary, where we had to press him on

continuing to praise vladimir putin. and could not get him to criticize putin. for assassinating political rivals and killing journalists that he didn't like. let's go to that tape. because it's so much like what brett baier heard from the president yesterday. >> did you like vladimir putin's comments about you? >> sure, when people call you brilliant, that's always good. especially when the person heads up russia. >> also a person who kills journalists, political opponents and invades countries. obviously it would be a concern, was it not? >> he's running his country. at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country. >> but again, he kills journalists that don't agree with him. >> well i think our country does plenty of killing, also, joe. >> what do you mean by that? >> there's a lot of killing going on in the world. lot of killing going on and a

lot of stupidity. that's the way it is. you didn't ask me that question, you asked me a different question, so, that's fine. >> i'm confused. you obviously condemn vladimir putin killing journalists and political opponents, right? >> oh sure, absolutely. >> yup. he's just couldn't -- >> yeah, he couldn't do it. but you know, willie, what's so revealing, we know this, america knows this now. members of donald trump's political cult know, that he admires tyrants, he admires strong men. what was so striking yesterday, was who donald trump considered to be america's greatest friends and who donald trump considered to be america's greatest enemies. america's greatest friends, china and north korea. america's greatest enemy, and donald trump said it himself, the free press.

is, is america's biggest enemy. that free press guaranteed by the first amendment to the united states constitution, donald trump considers to be america's greatest enemy. >> and by the way, the posture has permeated down through, you had the secretary of state mike pompeo yesterday barking at a reporter for asking about verification in this nuclear outline. not a nuclear deal, whatever the nuclear outline was they put together. that's become the message, that's become the line, right on down the administration, that the press shouldn't be asking questions. joe, i mean i wrote down immediately as i was listening to that clip before you got into it, that december 2015 interview that we did with donald trump that turned out to be a preview of coming attractions, is that president trump responds to what he views as strength. i don't view what kim jong un, i don't think you view what kim jong un does as strength. somebody who beats their chest

and rules with an iron fist, donald trump views that as strength. he views someone like prime minister justin trudeau, one of our closest allies, as weak, based on what his perception of what strength is. and it has real-world implications now. you have the president of the united states believing that in order to make a deal to get rid of north korea's nuclear weapons he has to impart upon kim jong un the same flattery that he expects from others upon himself. and as elise jordan or anyone else can tell you, you don't have to do that to get the deal. can you do two things at once, can you say kim jong un is a bad guy who does bad things, but i also want to get a deal to get rid of his nuclear weapons, and he doesn't seem to understand that. >> you look, though, mika let me go to mike for one second. if you look at all the things, mike, that donald trump has said about autocrats, tyrants, rulers whether they are in russia or north korea or china, whether

they are in the philippines, whether they're in turkey. wherever they are. and you just, you just take the transcript of everything he's said since he's been president and compare it to what he said about democratic institutions. the democratic institutions that are the most important to uphold the constitution of the united states, whether it's our intel community, whether it's our c.i.a., whether it's our fbi, our justice department, whether it's law enforcement personnel. whether it's our democratically elected allies whether it's nato. you put that into a computer program. you don't need a republican or a democrat or a journalist to come to a conclusion. it would conclude beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that donald trump admires autocr autocrats. trump admired kim because of kim's ultimate power to kill

anybody that crossed him and kim admired trump because of the power his position held. and that's -- how we have this, this, this romance, blooming in late spring, early summer. >> they're well matched, the two of them. let's stipulate for the audience, as well as for people who still favor donald trump. let's stipulate it was a positive to have two men, trump and kim, sitting down together talking, rather than threatening each other and threatening world peace through tweets. but the larger problem, you just indicated it, is what donald trump continues to do to the institutions of america. the justice department, the fbi, we've spoken about that. but america as an idea, for 75 years, america to the world has been an idea. 74 years ago this month, this

day, we were, we were off the beaches along the coast of france. we were inland. and we had left behind already, 74 years ago today, thousands of casualties who were therefore ever. in america cemeteries, we went there seeking not treasure, not property, we went there to free europe and to free the world. from the threat of adolf hitler. >> who went there, mike? christians went there? jews went there? >> yes. >> american muslims went there. american athiests went there black americans went there. native americans went there. you go, we all went over there as a country. and as general mike hayden has said recently and i loved how he said this, he said we are a creedal nation. yes, there's diversity, but what unites us, the special

ingredient that we are a nation that believes in a creed. and the creed is this -- read the document, understand the document. believe in the document. and pledge your loyalty to the document. great, you're an american, come on in. that's what we are, that's what we have been. and that's what is so frightening right now, mike, is that donald trump doesn't understand the document. he doesn't live by the document. and he sees that document that constitution of the united states of america, and all of the madisonian checks and balances, he sees those as inconveniences he wants to sweep away. >> and eddie, i would contend that president trump, president donald j. trump, doesn't understand the basic idea of what america is. >> i can confirm. i know him. >> to a certain degree what we

see is that -- what we see is what donald trump values. he values, it seems to me, unquestioned authority. >> money. >> he seems to me to value loyalty. he's not really committed to droimt in any substantive way. it comes out of jon meachum's wonderful book "the soul of a nation" america has always been an idea, an idea grappling with its convictions. donald trump is a reflection of the underbelly of america. the darker side of who we are. he's not new, he's a reflection of who we actually are in some ways. we have to confront what he represents and stand on the idea that it's so precious in response to him and his embrace of authoritarian principles. it seems to me. >> and of course, eddie brings up a great point.

mika that jon meachum in "the soul of america" talks about how we have been here before. but time and again it is the better angels among us that have won out in that battle. and that, that if you look at the arc of american civilization, if you look at civilization itself, as fdr said, there is always an upward trajectory to that mark. so i would only say again, i don't want to preach here, for those i talk to who say i'm just getting so tired, for those that i see on twitter, even reporters and journalists, who say i'm just exhausted by this -- by activists who are republicans and independents and democrats saying i'm just -- i'm just so exhausted. this, this is the first inning. this is just the beginning. this is just the start. now is not the time to be exhausted.

now is the time to be focused. now is the time to fight for what you believe in. now is the time to actually defend the constitution of the united states of america. most republicans on capitol hill will not do that. and they have made that abundantly clear. >> that's why it is a grave situation. yeah, i know it's not 1968. but we're on the edge of something. because when you have come, almost complete compliance in his party, and you have someone who speaks the way you just heard, you have a country that is on the edge of something extremely serious. and is slowly slipping away from its core. and elise, in his fox interview, president trump also discussed his relationship with vladimir putin. take a look. >> i'm not for russia, i'm for the united states. but as an example, if vladimir

putin were sitting next to me at a table instead of one of the others and we were having dinner the other night in canada, i could say would you do me a favor? would you get out of syria? would you do me a favor? would you get out of ukraine. get out of ukraine. you shouldn't be there now just come on. i think i'd probably have a good relationship with him or i would be able to talk to him better than if you call somebody on the telephone and talk. i will tell you as an example, if he were at that meeting i could ask him to do things that are good for the world that are good for the country that are good for him. a reporter asked me, do you think you would be better off with russia. i said absolutely. we spend probably 25% of our time talking about russia. i said to myself. wouldn't it be better if we were here and a lot of people agree with me. >> do you think he's going to -- >> he didn't -- i'm not sticking up for anybody. i'm just saying this, he didn't respect our leadership previously. he walked all over them.

look what he did to crimea. he took crimea. he took ukraine. sections of ukraine. >> which is why he got kicked out of the g-8. >> he didn't respect our leadership. >> it's hard to put into words what i just saw. and elise, for me as the daughter of a former national security adviser who is probably one of the greatest minds on geopolitical relations around the world and strategy, i will tell you that sickens me to hear him speak that way. to be so flip. to be so pompous, to be so arrogant, to be so stupid about history. so short-sighted and also so unbelievably confident in nothing. he has no clue what he's doing. and our prayers will rest on the people around him, but i think we better get with the program.

no one can do anything under him. that is effect i have beive. i'm concerned for mike pompeo and i'm concerned for general mattis and i'm concerned for the members of congress who have the opportunity to right this ship and are not taking it i feel like we're on the edge of a huge crisis. >> that exchange was just so utterly ignorant. in the content of him, of donald trump believing that he could just sit down with vladimir putin and say, get out of syria and he would do it. get out of crimea, and he would do it. like why not bring me a unicorn while you're at it? that's not how vladimir putin operates, that's not how he's ever operated and if anything, vladimir putin feels incredibly empowered, because he interfered in our election and donald trump's own ego is keeping him from fully admitting it. and fully looking into it and

making sure that it will never happen again. so that is such a fundamental misunderstanding by donald trump of vladimir putin and his motivations, that, yes, it's truly petrifying. >> it's petrifying, it truly is. >> you know willie, yeah, i think what we just saw there in the interview is donald trump's version of george w. bush's "i have looked into his soul and i've seen he's a good guy. i can deal with him." donald trump suggesting he can deal with him. it's so interesting what he said on the plane, i reflected back to gosh, it was such a long time ago this past weekend. when donald trump said that actually, that the crimea invasion made a lot of sense. because the people of crimea wanted the russians to be there. which reminded me of something that i saw last night on

twitter. someone had quoted a page from david halversham's great book, "the '50s." who quoted mccarthy, who said there was no plan. he was shooting from the hip. mccarthy was a day trader like roy cohen was a day trader. the most revealing part was this was during 2016. they contrasted bobby kennedy, working in the senate as a lawyer, versus roy cohn. roy cohn never did research. the files were left unopened. never read anything. he just went out, was a day trader and made allegations. and as halbersham said in the '50s, there was no plan this guy

is a day trader. one day the the next day i can get them out of crimea. tomorrow it will be something else. which of course this very nature of donald trump, this reckless undisciplined nature of donald trump, is what's so dangerous on the foreign policy stage. >> yeah, think if you're going to have the bumper sticker quote about donald trump, it also came last week when he said i don't have to prepare, it's about attitude. when talking about the north korea summit. that as you say is sort of the roy cohn view of the world, which is the power of personality will win out. he doesn't believe in preparation, he doesn't believe in history, he doesn't believe in context. he believes his singular personality can get things done. that if he gets in the room with somebody like on "the apprentice" or doing he's building a deal in new york city, he can convince them to come to his side. joe as you know, it's working. we're going to have mark sanford on the show in just a few minutes. had you the chairwoman of the republican party tweeting yesterday, this. anyone that does not embrace the

donald trump agenda of make america great again will be making a mistake. that's where the republican party is it's a power of personality. it's not about ideas, it's not about even conservative policy any more. ask mark sanford of the freedom caucus, with a 100% acu rating, it's about your loyalty to donald trump and donald trump knows that. that's why he knows he can go on camera and say the things he says without penalty. >> before we go to break, mike barn kill wants to share a picture. >> joe, i don't know whether you've seen the front of the "times" this morning. a close-up of this. this is a 2-year-old honduran girl. at the border, of the united states/mexican border. crying as her mother is being frisked by an i.c.e. agent. and we have in this country right now thousands of children who have been orphaned by the actions of the united states government. and so we've talked a lot about the country today. what it is and what it means,

what it has meant to the world. and we should ask ourselves, is this the united states that you remember? is this the united states that you want to be? is this the united states you want the world to see? >> let me add to that, that i've talked to a lot of conservatives. and i've read what a lot of conservatives have said about our current policy. conservatives who like myself, want a very tight border. and are very tight, are very conservative when it comes to immigration. we believe that borders mean something. we believe that the first thing someone does when they come into our country should not be violating united states laws, i'm a hard liner on immigration. at the same time, what's going on right now at the border is

unamerican. i will tell you a lot of catholics, leaders have come out and said, it is unchrist-like. yesterday reports coming out that a woman was breast-feeding her daughter and in the middle of it her baby was ripped away from her. public defenders, in the federal courts down there in texas reporting that children are being told and their parents are being told that they're being taken off to the showers. and that they'll return. and they never return. you know, i don't have to compare that to previous regimes in other horrific countries. that -- that conclusion actually is too obvious. this is donald trump's america. and yes, it sounds like something we would be condemning, coming out of north

korea. and if this is as mitch mcconnell says, what he considers to be the high-water mark of conservatism in america, then mitch mcconnell is a fool. mitch mcconnell is an ignorant fool who knows absolutely nothing about conservatism. about edmund burke. about russell kirk. about milton friedman. about -- about william f. buckley. and yes, about the sainted ronald wilson reagan. who mitch mcconnell says, was not as conservative as donald j. trump. lifetime democrat and contributor to the dnc, nancy pelosi, rahm emanual and chuck schumer. that's our america, mika. and sadly, that's our republican party. and that is the problem today. >> it's a big one. coming up on "morning joe," eddie mentioned earlier in the

company, president trump seems to value loyalty above nearly everything else. that maybe puts the test as michael cohen appears poised to split with his attorneys, setting up big questions about whether he's willing to cooperate with prosecutors. plus, our own jacob soveroff has some incredible reporting yesterday from a detention center in texas housing over 1,000 kids who came to the country without documentation. one of the first things those children see when theentering t compound? this mural of president trump. we'll be right back. us! all around louisiana... you're a nincompoop! (phone ping) gentlemen, i have just received word! the louisiana purchase, is complete! instant purchase notifications from capital one. so you won't miss a purchase

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new revelations involving the president's personal attorney michael cohen. abc news was the first to report cohen is expected to split with his current attorney steven ryan and todd harrison. the network cite as source familiar with the matter saying a fee dispute is among the

reasons for the change in counsel. the report from george stephanopoulos claims that cohen is likely to cooperate with the investigation. nbc news has not been able to confirm that part of the story. people familiar with the matter tell nbc news cohen has not spoken to prosecutors about what exactly he could offer. meanwhile, tomorrow is the deadline for cohen's attorneys and the trump legal team to finish identifying what materials seized from the cohen raid should be protected by attorney/client privilege. "the new york times" citing one person with knowledge of the legal shake-up reports that the president has personally told people around him he's angry at cohen over the quote messiness of the situation. especially those aspects involving stormy daniels. the report continues quote, the president also has indicated to allies he is worried if he pushes cohen away too hard it could increase the likelihood that cohen will offer information to the government. here is the public face of the president's legal team, rudy giuliani, reacting to the news

last night. >> he's not cooperating, nor do we care, because the president did nothing wrong. was very comfortable if he cooperates, that there's nothing he can cooperate about. michael cohen i think will tell you he's got nothing incriminating with the president. and really, they should stop going after him, they're torturing the guy. the reality is these trying to frighting the guy. >> the "washington post" cites people familiar with the situation says the cohen is feeling neglected by the president. we should mention cohen has not been charged withny anyway crime. let's bring in former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, an msnbc contributor joyce vance. this has been the eternal question with michael cohen -- will he flip? and what does he have to offer the government? what's the significance here do you think of him getting rid of his lawyers? >> i would be careful about reading too much into it until we know more details. but we have seen this similar sort of change-up in legal team

before. both general flynn and paul manafort's co-defendant, mr. gates, made a decision to cooperate with the government. so it could be a signal in that direction. it could also simply mean that cohen under the mounting pressure of discovery is running out of money to pay his lawyers. >> joyce, we've heard reports from several sources and also from people who know cohen personally. he has wanted to make a deal with the southern district of new york for quite some time now. but they have not come forward with that deal. why would they not come forward with a deal? do they want to make him even more desperate? or do they think they have -- again of course you don't know. but why would they not come forward with a deal if they have a guy reaching out to them wanting to cooperate? >> so one thing i think it's important for us to all think about is despite the narrative

trump is pushing, prosecutors actually aren't trying to torture people. prosecutors are investigating evidence of crime. and it's not as though prosecutors are out targeting people. the targets bring themselves to prosecutors by their own conduct. so folks in the southern district of new york are meticulously going through the evidence. if they reach a point where it seems likely that cohen's cooperation can benefit them in other cases, they'll reach out to him. it may just be that they're not at that point yet. where they know enough about his conduct to need his cooperation. and typically, prosecutors do reach out to defendants and try to negotiate a plea agreement. even if it won't involve cooperation. the overwhelming majority of cases, criminal cases in this country don't go to trial and are resolved via a plea agreement. >> joyce, elise jordan here. another actor in this drama, paul manafort, has really been

under more heat after it's been revealed, that he witness-tampered. how likely do you think it is that paul manafort's legal situation is going to become even more perilous in coming days? >> i was trying to think last night about whether i had ever been involved in a case where a defendant who was released pretrial and then tried to tamper with a witness hasn't been taken back into custody by the judge. and i couldn't come up with a single instance. so i think manafort frankly is very likely to find himself in custody after the hearing on friday. he tried to tamper with these witnesses, he's denied it, but it's very clearly an effort to get their future testimony to conform with the story line that he would like for them to tell. it's important for the judge to send a clear signal that she intends to preserve the integrity of that trial. >> joyce vance, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, president trump started out by calling kim jong

un a sick puppy. now months later, the north korean dictator is very talented. is it all part of the president's strategy? axios's jonathan swan joins us with the latest reporting. "morning joe" will be right back. bp is taking safety glasses to a whole new level. using augmented reality so engineers in the field can share data and get expert backup in the blink of an eye. because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. and we got to know the friends of our friends.r the friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe

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joining us is national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan and washington correspond r correspondent for cnbc, aman javers. president trump's jarring extremes and there are many. do they add up to a strategy? it's, i'm really asking. but i don't think they do. i think they add up to stupidity. but go ahead. >> i'm not arguing the opposite. i don't know about the stupidity part of it but we, i think people underestimate how close america was to war last year on the korean peninsula.

and trump poured fuel on it with his rhetoric. calling kim jong un little rocket man and using the button rhetoric. there is no middle ground with him. there is no shades of gray. he oscillates from i'm going to blow you up to you're the most talented guy i've ever met. and i think we are underestimating how easy it would be for him to oscillate right back to that position. except this time if he os late back, who is waiting for him at the end? john bolton. so we all think that we're now on this path to peace and sunshine. i would just say that this is a man who if he becomes humilia humiliated. if kim jong un does something that humiliates him or embarrasses him on the world stage and i would say that president trump has made himself vulnerable in that sense. some of his aides think he could easily violently swing back to the other direction. >> the word violent being key

there. >> i don't know how it works with dictators, i know how it works with a senate majority leader. we all can remember last year, donald trump insulting mitch mcconnell, demeaning mitch mcconnell, humiliating mitch mcconnell. tweeting nasty attacks about mitch mcconnell. rubbing his nose in mud in dirt. and now mitch mcconnell, does whatever donald trump tells him to do. he kowtows to donald trump. so domestically, politically, humiliating some men actually has worked for him. maybe he thinks it will work on the world stage also with dictators. >> i get a sense that there's this oscillation with the president, he's going back and forth between high praise and huge insults, sometimes on the same people. think what triggers that oscillation is the idea from donald trump's perspective of what are you bringing to me? are you bringing something to me that i can use? that makes me look good? that fulfills my campaign promises?

or are you useless to me right now? if you're useless to me, if you're getting in my way, that's when the insults come. that's when the angry tweets come. that's why we saw the fight with mitch mcconnell last summer. the president was extraordinarily frustrated with the idea that the republicans were campaigning on repealing obamacare and he couldn't get it done. later they passed tax reform and suddenly mcconnell is his guy and see a lot of praise coming for mitch mcconnell. i think the president views the world very much as what can you do for me. if you're not doing something for me, you're in my way and you're my enemy, essentially. >> you've got a quote in your piece from a white house source that says trump only respects force, only respects cojones. is there a strategy there? does president trump believe that flattery of kim jong un, flattery of vladimir putin is a means to an end? or is it just personal affinity

for a guy who likes the cut of his jib, he likes the swagger, he likes the power that this guy wields? >> the word "strategy" implies long-term thinking, long-range planning. and i haven't spoken to anyone who works with donald trump who thinks he thinks about things in long range. it's a of of a piece of how he treats business. he lavishes them with over-the-top praise. he talks about the saudis, the swords, oh what about the swords, and he recounts the bastille day parade when macron lavished all of this hospitality on him, the forbidden city, still talks about that with china. so he does what he wants from them. which is lavishes with praise and then the only thing he respects is this completely blunt force, so that's whey does with these foreign leaders. the question is like is it going to be an effective and i use the word tactic, because i think it

is really a moment-to-moment darks-to-day proposition, obviously we don't know yet. >> ayman, in the middle of all of this self-driven hourly seemingly chaos from the oval office, we're on the verge of a trade war. i mean, tariffs, talking about raising tariffs, starting you know a trade war with china perhaps this week. where is this all going? and the impact it might have on american workers. >> well you know to go back to jonathan's point you do get the sense that some of these foreign leaders could deal with trump. the same way that he deals with them, heaping that praise on him. you look at the west wing, they have the pictures on the wall in the west wing everywhere you go of the big events, the macron event, the saudi event. the event with the chinese, they rotate the pictures all the time. they're all these huge set pieces that star donald trump, all framed in gold frame on the wall in the west wing.

those events make a huge impression on the president. i saw him the other day in the west wing he stopped to admire the pictures of himself with the world leaders on the world stage. he said look at them. nice pictures, he kept walking down the hallway. this a president who really likes the big set pieces. the trade, the big set piece with the g7 last weekend. it didn't go well. it wasn't donald trump at the center of attention. it wasn't this lavish amount of praise for the president and his standing in the world. it was criticism. you saw the president lash back at justin trudeau of canada over the weekend, because he felt that justin trudeau had said something negative about him. not entirely clear what the president thought was so negative. but we saw this intense push-back from the president. when things go well for the president, they go really well. when things go badly, they go really badly. >> the white house source says trump only respects force, only

respects cojones and another white house report in response to the g7, we are american bees. it seems like this is a locker room of frat boys driving this policy. what do you make of this approach to foreign policy? it seems to be driven bay sense of manhood that's deeply problematic. >> well i don't think there's some great mystery about donald trump there isn't this, as meeko and joe know for many years there isn't this private donald trump with voluminous layers, he is who he is. you've seen him in public for 30 years. so there is that. but donald trump sees the world as a series of countries that owe america money. it is literally, he's not viewing the world as collections, alliances, regions. there is a little bit of that. but it's you owe us money. what can i squeeze out of you. to give -- in his mind, the american worker a better deal.

so he only likes to deal one-on-one. and he personalizes things. it's mano a mano. he was obsessed with kim jong un's personality. he wanted to know everything about him. it's this idea that he can master the opposite man in a deal. and again, it's going around the world. he's testing the theory that if we go around the world and just try and take things from other countries in terms of squeeze them, get a bit of money out of them here, there, and everywhere, what's the next stage of that? after they give awe little concession, maybe they give you a better trade deal or whatever. what's the next stage when you need to come calling on them in a matter of war or something much more serious? that's going to be the test. we have fractured that european relationship in some of these other -- >> they're laughing hysterically. >> i was going to say and the president tells you what he's doing, right? this president in one way he's

secretive. he's private, he doesn't like the media prying into his business. but on the other hand he tells you what's on his mind. in singapore he said look, if i don't get what i want, it might be a failure. and then he said effectively i wouldn't ever admit it was a failure. i'd come up with some other excuse. he telgs you what's on his mind. the exactly the way he approaches things. even when he's saying i'm going to obfuscate this thing in the future. he's very transparent about that. >> very transparent about being obsessed by power, bolstered by money, sex and lies. axios's jonathan swan and cnbc ayman javers thank you for being on the show. still to come. congressman steve scalise will return to the annual congressional baseball game a year after the shooting that nearly took his life. nbc's kasie hunt will join us live from nationals park in washington, the site of today's game. "morning joe" is back in a moment. her salon was booked for weeks,

until her laptop crashed this morning.

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>> what we're about as a nation is not being for or against one personality. again, we're a nation of laws and not men as the founding fathers said. >> that was republican congressman and vocal trump critic mark sanford during his concession speech tuesday night, describing his primary as an inflection point for the country and the gop. congressman sanford will join us at the top of the hour. plus, "vanity fair's" emily jane fox is here with her new reporting on what michael cohen is telling people about a possible legal fight with donald trump. a lot going on. "morning joe" is coming right back. do not mistake serenity for weakness. do not misjudge quiet tranquility for the power of 335 turbo-charged horses.

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the day yesterday that trump is a cult-like figure. this was senator bob corker yesterday talking about the gop's radio silence on president trump. welcome back to "morning joe," it's thursday, june 14. still with us, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, eddie glaude, jr. good to have you all on board this hour. joe, i feel like the conversation is changing direction a bit where we're asking less and trying to discern more about where we're headed giving the troubling presidency that we're dealing with. >> well, i think -- i actually think that mark sanford's defeat in south carolina was a defining moment for the republican party. i say that because mark a

conservative's conservative for years. got through a scandal that the republican voters were perfectly fine with but couldn't get passed saying one two bad things about donald trump. listen, this guy has a lifetime 93% rating from club for growth, 92% lifetime average from heritage action and a 91% american conservative union lifetime average and somehow he was insufficiently trumpist to win his own primary. let's bring in right now still the congressman for south carolina, but a recently liberated man, mark sanford. mark it's always great to see you. let me first of all -- let me

just ask you to give us your reflections on what happened the past couple days and during the campaign. >> well, short and simple is i got beat, but i think the themes that come from it have implications for a whole lot of other races out there and sort of our belief in institutions in this country and what the republican party is ultimately about so i guess it's a -- in shortest shortest form we swore an allegiance to the constitution and we pledge allegiance to the flag and what was weird about this race that i never experienced before in any race that i've been a part of was an allegiance question where people say are you for or against the president. i would give a nuanced answer. i'm with him most of the time but i've disagreed on a couple of issues when they've been inconsistent with the promises that i've made in running or my belief in terms of conservative philosophy or the very people that i represent.

if you look at my rating i've voted with him 89% of the time, disagreed within a handful of times and yet the answer would be i want to know if you're for against the president. i would say look, i love my brothers and sisters and i'm not with them all the time. i've never before had a question of allegiance to a person rather than allegiance to the flag of the constitution and to a degree that's what this race came down to. >> that's what is so frightening is it seems like a personality cult where you have to have -- you don't pledge an oath to the constitution of the united states. you don't pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states. it goes directly to donald trump. i've known for you a quarter of a century now. i know the first time i met you you got all the incoming freshmen in and you had a chart and you showed us the challenges facing us on the federal deficit, the federal debt,

entitlement spending. you basically predicted where we were going and i would like to say when people say that i'm a squish or i've changed this way, i'd love to say yes, i'm actually nuanced enough to do that but, like me, you've been saying the same thing about trade, about deficit, about debt, about entitlement spending for a quarter of a century. you've been saying the same exact thing, more so than anybody else i came into congress with in 1994. how does it change? like people that have known you for a quarter of a century and heard you saying "i'm for free trade, i'm for balancing the budget, let's not spend so much money, let's reform entitlements, let's save social security." what do they say when they look into your eye and you've been saying the same exact thing you've been saying for over two decades now? >> well, that's the puzzle of this race and something i'm trying to figure out myself but what i'd say is those

traditional merit badges, if you will, did not matter in this race. and it was a close race, it was a very divided race, it was separated by about 3,000 votes but at the end of the day for people that voted against me those things, those traditional markers of conservative philosophy, market principle and constitutional rule of the american system, those merit badges didn't matter and this is something that i think has alarming consequences for races that go well beyond the first district of south carolina. >> it's willie geist, congressman, good to see you. as you mentioned, the race was tight. do tunnyou believe the presiden late tweet in which he criticized you saying you hadn't been helpful to the maga agenda and then talked about your

recent scandal in venezuela, did that work against you? >> well, i think there are a couple interesting things about that tweet. one, when's the last time a republican gpresident got into congressional race if you're supposedly negotiating a deal in the far east. so his degree of focus on personal things, if you offend me, i'm coming back to get you, is, again, a little outside the form to say the least but more interesting is it wasn't the truth. it was just a flat out lie. that's why mark meadows and jim jordan and people like that have risen to my defense and said wait a minute, this guy voted for the president's agenda yet he sends a tweet out saying you're not supportive of my agenda. >> what do you suggest as we come up on the fall to candidates running for reelection? on the one hand you want to keep your job to push in washington conservative ideals and policies you believe in.

on the other hand, it appears crossing donald trump in any way as you point out you've been supportive of him but crossed him a couple times could cost you that seat. so what's your political advice to republicans running this fall about how to handle donald trump? >> the politics are easy. pledge allegiance to donald trump. but i think that's a mistake at a civil level. it was interesting in my concession speech the other night, i had my four boys with me and it was a profoundly moving moment when afterward they hugged me and they said "dad, we're proud of you." and so i think we've all got to look inside of each one of our souls and say where am i in this? there are always tradeoffs in politics and we have to recognize that. that's the tug-of-war of policy versus district and go down the list but i think everybody has to answer that question for themselves and i would wish them

well but i would say i've been amazed at the number of different members who've come up to me over the last 24 hours since i've been back here on the hill and have talked about a tribalism component to what's going on in the party and with the trump effect that worries them and that they've never seen before. >> so congressman, following up on the threat of that conversation, yesterday we had former homeland security secretary jeh johnson here who expressed real regret at your loss. just listen to what he said yesterday. >> i am -- these days i'm a little depressed about frankly the state of our politics. we have a president who denigrates the institutions of his own government which i simply cannot get my head around and then when we look at the primary results last night from south korea, mark sanford who in my experience is a very

thoughtful member of congress. he was on the house homeland security committee, he would sit through the entire hearing, he was the most junior member so he would be last but he'd always ask the most intelligent, insightful question and it wasn't a knee jerk question requiring a knee jerk response so it's depressing to me to see a thoughtful member of congress like that lose reelection. >> so this morning maybe you can help us out here. there seems to be a growing divergence in defining the difference between trumpism and conservatism and this morning also on the front page of the "new york times" there is a picture of a young two-year-old child being separated from her mother at the border, from honduras, she's being separated from her mother in tears at the border. as a conservative, as an american, as someone who respects the borders and wants border security -- help us out here. how would a conservative look at

this issue and other issues as compared to trumpism looking at this issue and other issues? what is a conservative today? >> conservative is what a conservative has always been which is one who has a rightful and legitimate suspicion of government's growth, one who believes in what jefferson talked about wherein there's a dividing line with government on one side and liberty on the others and there's a healthy tension between those two and often times in as much one side grows the other side shrinks. so i could go through the traditional components of conservatism but i go back to what i keep hearing since i've been back here on the hill since my defeat which is a lot of talk about well, that's not what we have right now, we have a form of tribalism and we have a breach of one of the great components of the institutional setup of the founding fathers which is they divided

legitimately power across legislative and judicial branch so we would be checks upon the other and there would be vigorous debate and this idea that if you challenge somebody and say look, i hear where you're coming from but folks are saying something different and i have to go a different way and here's the reasons for doing so, if that becomes something that's unacceptable in the course of american politics we've got a real problem because that is what the founding fathers set up which is a healthy tension wherein there was to be debate. there was to be dissent, not pledges of allegiance, if you want to call them that. >> i do think we have a real problem. i think we need to. co -- come to terms with that. elise? >> congressman, you wrote an op-ed saying donald trump should release his tax returns and that the lack of knowledge surrounding donald trump's personal financial interests has continued to plague this administration and to the point of we don't know if our foreign

policy is being decided by trump or kushner family interests. are you still going to push for the release of the tax returns? >> i've made my point clear on that. it isn't going anywhere but i made my point clear because it's a 50-year tradition that has served this country very, very well. every president, rare or democrat, has done so but more importantly -- and this is as a former governor -- i released my tax returns twice as i became the nominee for my party back home. there was a value to the taxpayer in doing that. people could look, it was another data point where they could say do i -- why is he doing this or where is this coming from? it cleared up gray area, it cleared up question and if you don't have a president releasing their tax return make certain that, believe me, governors across this country, gubernatorial candidates across this country won't be releasing theirs so i think it's something that has affect well beyond the president's returns but really to the larger tradition that's

been adhered to for more than 50 years in this country. >> all right. conservative champion and steadfast warrior for conservative causes for over a quarter of a century mark sanford. thank you so much for being with us. we're grateful for -- you coming on the show and we hope to see you again some time soon. >> appreciate it, joe. thank you so much. >> thank you so much for being on. mika, there's just so much here that's -- it's astounding, again, we've talked about the republican party and where the republican party has gone with the defeat of mark sanford a man who was endorsed by the freedom caucus, who was endorsed by jim jordan, who was endorsed by mark meadow, who was endorsed by anybody, paul ryan, endorsed by anyone who believes, like mark sanford has believed for a

quarter of a century in smaller government, in less regulations in entitlement reform, in saving future generations from massive overwhelming debt. for anybody who believes in that, mark sanford was their candidate but for those who didn't vote for mark sanford it is an example of where the republican party has gone and that it is a personality cult. and, you know, eddie that may feel good in the moment but republicans in south korea one that says the held with conservative principles, the hell with our life long belief in small government. the hell with everything we in our party have held dear for decades. we're now going to completely put our conscience and our

ideology in a blind trust for donald trump. they ma feel good for them today i guess but, boy, a hard rain is going to fall come november in places like virginia and across the country where they're electing these extremists that pledge allegiance to donald trump but know nothing about being conservative. >> well, joe, i think you're right. as a religious studies scholar, i'm going to put my ph.d. hat on and we have to be careful with our use of the word "cult" a because it doesn't have the analytical clarity that we might want it to, but i understand what we're registering, i wanted to say that for my scholars out there. >> there you go. amen. >> but i want to ask you this question, though, joe. it's common political sense that when republicans run in their primaries that they have to run right, they have to play to their base. and in playing to their base they knew that they could not, when it came to the general

election, make the same claims, that they would have to run back in some ways to the center. what is happening to that logic? is it the case that the base they had to appeal to in the primary has metastasized and become the party itself? what i'm trying to say is that are we thinking about trumpism as something distinct and unique from what was happening among republicans throughout their primaries or is it -- is there some relationship between two. because i'm trying to think about trumpism as being a part of the republican party. that its reflects buchananism, it reflects what republicans had to do in terms of appealing to their base and their primary so i'm trying to understand how we describe trumpism in this moment. does that make sense? >> it does and there are two ways to look at it. there are two ways to look at it in terms of what's going on today and you could look at the changes and the republican party

that there has been a dark underside to the republican party and conservatism which has usually been checked by whether it's john mccain or mitt romney or george w. bush or george h.w. bush or ronald reagan. that dark underbelly has usually been checked by the leader of the party. jeb bush, george w. bush, george h.w. bush would always talk about -- would always push back and let republicans know that reaching out to voters in groups that they weren't comfortable with, like hispanic voters, was extraordinarily important. george w. bush wasn't calling hispanics breeders, he was campaigning hard, he got 43%, 44% of the vote of hispanic voters in 2004.

donald trump is playing to the lowest common denominator and i think that's one part of the story. and so, yes, we have seen the ugliest side of republicanism metastasize and it now has become all about donald trump and his collection of prejudices and resentments. there's another part of it, though, and sadly i don't think that this is just in the republican party, i think it's in the democratic party as well. tribalism, just pure unadulterated tribalism where people in a party line up before their leader no matter what. i can get you quotes from top democratic leaders when the monica lewinsky scandal broke out saying that if this is true then bill clinton needs to resign. patrick moynihan, i believe, said that. well, it became true and you

had -- and maureen dowd has written about this often. you had a lot of women that knew better lining up to attack monica lewinsky and defend bill clinton because power was preeminent. they had a seat at the table, they had a president who supported the things they supported. he even supported partial-birth abortions. he was their man. he would go to the wall for them on policy. so his personal life didn't really matter. we all know that the chickens came home to roost, right? read maureen dowd's column this past week. read maureen dowd's column during the campaign and we saw there was a payment that became due ultimately for not only the clintons but the democrats and the women who blindly followed bill clinton when they should have spoken out. i am certain, mika, that the same thing is going to happen to these republicans who are blindly following donald trump but i guarantee you it will not

take 16 years for this bill to come due. this bill will come due much more quickly and the price paid by these sycophants will be much greater politically. they will be swept from power and it may be a very long time before there is another republican sitting in the white house. >> my mother called me yesterday and just said, they're wrecking the country. they're just wrecking everything. and she was despondent. >> to underline joe's point, you had mark sanford, one of the leading lights of the movement for a quarter century when asked what he would say to republicans running for congress, he said the politics are simple, pledge allegiance to donald trump. that's where the party is and if you don't believe it read the treat from rob that mcdaniel, the chairwoman of the republican party that writes "anyone that does not embrace the real republican agenda of making america great again will be

making a mistake." about a man, not a party or ideas. still ahead on "morning joe," two people who know a lot about michael cohen's ties to the russia investigation. member of the house intel committee jim himes and "vanity fair" reporter emily jane fox who's broken several scoops. they join us next on "morning joe." wow kaley, this is a fancy hotel. must have cost a lot. actually, i got a great deal. priceline saves you up to 60% on hotels, but that's something the hotels don't really want other guests to know. i saved about 120 dollars a night!

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>> one former white house official said even before the news that cohen was cooperating broke that trump should be super worried about michael cohen. if anyone can blow up trump, it's him. well, okay, that gives cohen leverage, because the last guy who threatened to blow up trump got his own summit. [ laughter ] >> let's bring in senior reporter at "vanity fair" and an nbc news and msnbc contributor emily jane fox. emily is out with a new piece entitled "i feel like don

quixote. michael cohen's legal battle shakeup foretells a possible battle with trump." and democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. let's get the update on michael cohen, emily. everyone keeps asking him if he's going to flip. why wouldn't he and what's the timeline on this? >> well, michael cohen is in a place of leverage right now. he feels like he has not been protected by the president, by the president's family and be his inner circle in washington and this is a man who's been around for more than a decade and seen a lot of things and done a lot of things. he has not been supported. his legal situation is mounting and getting more and more serious so he's in a position where right now the case is changing from document review to what happens after that. there's no sense of timeline. he, according to people around him, has not yet sat down with the prosecutors, he's not yet made a final determination. in fact, he's switching

attorneys come tomorrow and he does not yet have a new attorney so there are several steps that need to take place in order for whatever happens next to actually come to fruition but he's entering a whole new sphere of this legal drama. >> we've been in the middle of this will he/won't he cooperate game it feels like for months now. i guess the question is what's the hold up? what is he considering? what on the side of the ledger exists that says i wouldn't cooperate at this point and has he been approached at all by the southern district for a deal? . our reporting is they haven't come to him yet. >> the holdup is that they have not come to him. according to people around him, he hasn't been approached and i think that that is the major holdup right now. >> do you have any sense, emily, of his sources of income. >> i don't know that there's income flowing in right now. his primary job for the last two months has been sorting through 3.7 million documents. that's been taking up to ten hours a day of his time and there are not a lot of clients who wanted to work with him.

his general feeling right now besides his feeling of betrayal from the trump camp is that his life has been collateral damage in order to get to the president so his business has been destroyed, his family has been destroyed. he has been a pawn in this game and so he is just waiting for a next phase. >> congressman himes, your view of michael cohen and where he fits into this investigation. how crucial is he? >> well, as the president's fixer, you have to assume that he's got stuff that could make the president look pretty bad. and it had nothing to do with russian collusion. it may or it may not. there are questions about these trips that michael cohen took or didn't take and presumably we'll get answers around that but, of course, just some of the practices that we hear that the president regularly used as a developer in new york, those are going to be there for everyone to see. that this could be that

blue-dress moment, by which i mean when an investigation takes a turn, as it did under bill clinton that nobody would have predicted. but look, the dynamic here isn't one of getting support from the white house. if that's where we're going -- remember, this is an investigation, it's being done by the southern district of new york. they're going through huge numbers of documents and there was the whole process to determine whether some of those documents were subject to attorney/client privilege. this is an investigation. and when you say "support from the white house" it makes me nervous because it harkens back to where we were a couple weeks ago when the president was willy-nilly without any of the traditional mechanisms issuing pardons. and so that's part of the dynamic here, too. i think a guy like michael cohen or paul manafort is thinking in the back of their heads maybe there's a pardon for me, too, which would be a huge miscarriage of justice. >> congressman, this morning on the front page of the "new york times," i don't know whether you saw it or noticed it but there's a picture of a two-year-old girl from honduras.

she and her mother stopped at the border. the mother is being frisked, the child is in tears. this story and others about children continue on a day to day basis. they are overwhelmed, of course, by the constant stories about donald trump and the special prosecutor but we now, the united states of america, hold thousands of children in what are called detention centers along the border. your thoughts? >> well, every american regardless of party affiliation or what they feel about donald trump needs to understand that in a democracy that is being done in their name and this is not a democratic or a republican thing. you know, the american conference of bishops, the senior hierarchy of the catholic church came out very strongly opposed to something that shouldn't take the bishops to oppose which is that it is just plain wrong regardless of circumstances to take children away from their mothers and

fathers and that is what is being done in their name. look, the white house hasn't been at all and the attorney general hasn't been at all shy about explaining that. their explanation is well, that's what's going to happen so be afraid, be very afraid if you try to come to this country. that's not the way that i think most americans would have their country, their exceptional and great country behave in their name. >> a couple of weeks ago, senator merkley from oregon was turned away at one of the detention centers along the border in texas. he was refused admittance where, again, children are being held against their will, separated from their parents. why is it that members of congress, members of the united states senate -- i know you can't speak for them -- haven't gone down by the bus loads and demanded entrance to these detention centers to inspect the conditions under which children, having already been orphaned by the federal government, are living. >> well, a bunch have and there have been some tours. it has, interestingly enough,

because this shouldn't be a partisan issue, this is a moral and ethical issue, it has been largely democrats and where i would point to is who in this building has subpoena power? who is going to say no, you are going show up in my committee and explain this policy and show me photographs and talk about the numbers of children. that would be committee chairman in the house and senate, all of whom are republicans so, again, if you're of my party, you say this is one of the many urgent reasons why the american public should think hard about how they vote in november because for all the reasons you've been talking about on the show, there is no constitutional check on the behavior of this administration including what should not be a trump or republican or democratic thing but the fact that as we speak toddlers are being taken from the arms of their mothers and fathers in a so-called detention center away from their families and regardless of where you are politically that needs to stop.

>> so the question is what's being done to stop that? there is a compromise republican bill that's been floated out there that would have among its provisions the cessation of what we're seeing on the border, that would not have children separated from their parents. what are the chances of that clearing the house and what are the chances that children will stop being separated from their parents because of action on capitol hill soon? >> well, i don't think they're good, sadly. the story of the immigration bill -- and this gets technical into parliamentary stuff -- but the moderate republicans such as they are were going to force a vote on four different immigration bill, some of which were very conservative, some of which were sort of moderate in their orientation. they were going to do that through something called a discharge position which would have taken control of the floor away from republican leadership. well, they didn't follow through in the end so we're going to see two probably very conservative bills none of which will be i think satisfying to people who care about immigrants or the way children are treated and i would

tell you they are likely to fail so i fear two weeks from now we'll be where we are today without an immigration bill and looking at people like the chairman of the house oversight committee saying wait a second, look at these photographs, call a hearing, make sure children are being cared for and treated well. at least do that if you don't feel you can stand up to the president and stop this tearing apart of families. >> congressman jim himes as always, thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciated. >> thanks, joe. >> let's go back to emily jane fox. emily, i'd like to know whether your reporting has uncovered michael cohen's financial situation because here's a guy that's had tens of millions of dollars reportedly passed through him or at least pass through his name to help donald trump pay off stormy daniels he had to take out -- had to borrow money from a second mortgage on

his in laws' home. as we're looking at how much he's being squeezed, is the situation now that rick gates was in where he just financially could not afford to take on the feds? >> look, there have been i believe 15 lawyers working round the clock, working so many hours that some of them had to sleep in their law offices on couches. these are people that have been going through $3.7 million in a short period of time. it's a very highly skilled new york city law firm. these legal bills are crippling for anybody no matter how many millions of dollars are passing through and as we know none of the clients who had been working with him over the past several years are still working with him so it's been a difficult financial squeeze and sure that plays into a decision-making process as well. >> emily jane fox, can't wait for your book to come out. getting closer, right? >> tuesday, couple days. >> "born trump, inside america's first family."

and you actually had such inside connection on this story. i can't wait to read the whole thing. there's no one else who has this story so we look forward to t t that. this morning president trump is waking up to birthday wishes from vladimir putin. the kremlin spokesperson says that russian leaders sent a congratulatory telegram this morning. and our producers put together this birthday greeting for the president which we think he might like. ♪ happy birthday, to me, happy birthday to me ♪ ♪ happy birthday to donald j. trump ♪ ♪ they're singing happy birthday to me ♪ oh, happy birthday. hey, i'm president. can you believe it, right?

one year ago today, a gunman opened fire at a baseball diamond in suburban alexandria, virginia. it happened during our show. republican members of congress and aides came under gunfire while practicing for the annual ball game. rescued by the security detail of congressman steve scalise the

most seriously wounded that day. joining us from nationals park and washington, d.c. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc, kasie hunt. kasie, it has to be incredible to see steve scalise come back on the diamond. >> reporter: that wi i. >> that was a difficult day for those who were wounded but today i am thrilled to be able to be covering a much happier story and, of course, as the situation in washington can be, we are out here practicing on nats field today which is where the game will be held tonight and steve scalise was able to get out and practice with his team ahead of this big game tonight. >> it's been a long journey back to the baseball diamond for steve scalise. the number three house republican nearly died a year

ago this morning. he was shot in the hip at practice at last year's national baseball game. >> there's a trail of blood. we can't help him. we're helpless. we've got bats versus rifles. >> three others were shot but scalise and his teammates were lucky. >> scalise's security detail and capitol hill police immediately began -- to return fire. >> reporter: it took three months and multiple surgeries but scalise was back at work by the fall. >> you have no idea how great this feels to be back here at work in the people's house. >> reporter: last week he practiced with his teammates for this year's charity game. >> i want to welcome the whip back. >> reporter: tonight, as republicans and democrats trade in their daily battles over policy in favor of pinstripes,

for scalise just taking the field is a win. you've come a long way in a year. >> it's been quite a journey. definitely come a long way but had a lot of prayers and support but it shows you just get back in the game and keep battling. >> reporter: scalise is excited to be out on the field. he is out here with his republican teammates, the folks you see going back and forth behind me on the democratic side are taking batting practice so republicans will be taking the field in a little while. we'll see if they've decided if steve scalise will be back taking his position as second base. mika? >> nbc's kasie hunt, thank you so much. that was an incredible day. so frightening. up next, donald trump dismisses the atrocities under kim jong-un saying he's a tough

guy and that they understand each other. that plus the president's unbelievable -- literally unbelievable -- claim about the parents of korean war vets. that's next on "morning joe."

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>> we have thousands of people that have asked for that. thousands and thousands of people. so many people asked when i was on the campaign. i'd say wait a minute, i don't have any relationship but they said when you can, president, we'd love our son to be brought back home, you know, the remains. and i asked -- we had pretty much finished and i said would you do me a favor? the remains of these great fallen heroes, can we do something? he agreed to it immediately. it's pretty great. >> president trump saying the parents of fallen korea war veterans asked him -- asked him to help arrange the return of their sons' remains.

>> this is awkward. >> we've been doing back-of-the-envelope math. >> per the v.a., the average age of korean war veterans is estimated at 87 meaning those parents if still alive would be over 100. i can't -- it's hard to read this stuff with a straight face. it's clear the president is stunningly ignorant. probably the most ignorant president we will ever have. >> come on, mika, that's not -- mi mika, mika, mika, that's not fair. >> don't. >> he's not ignorant. he's not ignorant. he's actually lying. willie i'm not good at math -- >> i think everybody gives him way too much credit. the guy is ignorant. >> i'm not too good in math willie. >> and warped. >> but -- thank you, mika. thank you. >> uh-huh. we just need to stop asking questions about what the strategy is and what could he really be doing? he's ignorant, he's warped, he's obsessed with money and sex and

he finds his power through those two things and that is the strategy of this president, it's base and caveman like and i'm not going to pretend to dance around questions to be objective when clearly the only people who have loyalty oaths to him are those who are afraid and will lose their jobs if they don't follow him blindly. but there's right and there's wrong and everyone knows the difference. let's stop playing games. there's no question here. >> willie -- hey, willie? >> yes, sir. >> can you tell me -- a weird thing just happened. i had the feed from our show and suddenly kate mckinnon from "snl" came up. how did alex do that? getner her in a split box. the whole thing. it's not that donald trump is

ignoran ignorant. he's lying -- >> no, bill clinton lied. donald trump is ignorant. >> there is a third theory. >> it's a compliment. >> there's a third theory and that is that he's delusional. >> well, he has his own world. >> he's living in his own world and i think that that is -- that has to be put up there as another explanation. >> joe, willie and i did the math. willie has the math. he's much better at math than i am but we started with a point of reference that if you are part of a family who lost a son with the fifth marines in 1951, the winter of 1951, willie, do the math on that. >> so cho sin was november and december of 1950, let's say you're a 25-year-old kid, right? let's say 20-year-old. you're a young kid. born in 1930. generously your parents were born in 1905 if they were 25 years old when you were born, 1910 maybe. so during the 2016 campaign when president trump says they were approaching him and saying

please bring back the remains of my son, they would have been 106 to 110 years old. but your point, joe -- >> they've been waiting a long time. >> yes, they have. but your point, joe, is right. this isn't ignorance, he's making up a story just like his friend jim who never goes to paris anymore because it's so dangerous. >> jim never goes to paris anymore. >> make up a story, hope people don't check out the details to make your point. >> because you are ignorant. >> jim never goes to paris -- jim never goes to paris anymore because jim says paris isn't paris anymore like those parts of europe you can't go into because the police are afraid of it because muslim gangs have taken over the area. >> mika, we'll go back to you now. >> alex is too scared to let me speak. >> not at all. >> he's a smart guy. >> lord knows i might ask a question that garners an answer

that will make everybody want to be sick. >> go for it, mika. go. >> oh, okay. joining us now, u.s. marine and member of the house armed services and homeland security committees, republican congressman mike gallagher of wisconsin. thank you for being on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> do you have concerns about the president's summit and outcome with kim jong-un? >> i think, to the extent that we find ourselves in a protracted negotiation that renowns to north korea, we are letting up on the maximum pressure campaign. in the press conference, the president seemed to admit that china is breaking sanctions. if, indeed, that's the case, we should be in the business of applying more pressure, sending letters of inquiry to chinese businesses supporting the north korean regime. i have concerns we didn't see the words complete, verifiable

dismantlement. there's a lot of time for secretary pompeo to come to the hill. this is the start of a long process. i give the administration credit for creating the opportunity. we want to see this resolve peacefully and diplomatically on a bipartisan basis to make sure diplomacy has the best chance possible. >> i appreciate your honesty. you are a skeptic on the kim regime. are you afraid president trump will be mad at you? many republicans appear to be afraid to speak more candidly about some of the concerns they may have. >> well, listen, i want the president to succeed. i have seen in the past eight years, really, i think since the '70s, which i'm told were an interesting decade. congress surrendered a lot of authority on national security to the executive branch. i think that distorts

fundamentals in the constitution. i think it's appropriate for congress to be an equal partner in the process and enhances the white house's leverage. when the white house sits across the table from the north korean counter parts, they can point to congress and say, hey, we have these crazy men and women in congress that have to approve any agreement we get. that's why we are insisting on such a harsh agreement. congress should insist on a place at the table. that's the best way for any deal to survive this presidency. as we saw with the iran deal, it did not outlive the obama administration. >> they said it is no longer a threat. that's not true. one day after the summit, he's talked of stopping or suspending military exercises along the border and flowed the idea of getting american troops off the korean peninsula saying it costs too much. what's your view, if anything,

of what moved the ball forward at that summit. are we closer to the denuclearization than a week ago? >> to be honest, we just don't know. >> go ahead, congressman. >> we throw this word denuclearization around and it's clear that kim is speaking an entirely different language when they say that word. by the way, this is filtered through the south korean press that very much wants a deal. they are talking suspension further advancements of the program. we are talking dismantlement. there's a lot of work to be done. it is neither the historic victory or concession the sides a claiming. it is bizarre this is analyzed through tribal partisan politics. take a step back and figure out what is going on here. >> jeffry sachs, step in. >> thank you for being on, congressman. >> thank you. >> i agree with the congressman,

nothing decisive happened. second, this is a long slog, third, one should have expected nothing different from this. the president likes spectacles. he likes the daily publicity. this is not the breakthrough he claims, but better than nuclear war, so, i'm glad this happened. i don't think any decisive happened, but it's different than the awful situation of last year, yelling at each other at the brink. there's so much delusion and illusion. the president likes the daily spectacle. that's quite different from long-term policy. >> jeffry, the statement itself was like 329 words or whatever. i mean the lack of specificity. what bothers you the most of the lack of specificity? >> what bothers me in general is the complete improposition of

foreign policy day-to-day. it's not only this, we are in a complete frenzy in all aspects of foreign policy, of course breaking with our closest allies, changes of mood hour to hour. nobody can rely on what the president says for one minute because if someone says something else and it triggers his emotional impulsivity, he is going to reverse the next moment. so, we are in a lot of instability because of a personal quirk, that's putting it mildly, of the president. so, we don't -- >> an apperation. >> for a while, the korean thing, i mean it didn't work, but the summit exposed, this doesn't really produce anything. i think it was the peak of that

kind of foreign policy by impulse and spectacle. we are stuck with a lot of instability because nobody does serious work. >> dr. jeffrey sachs, thank you very much. still ahead, jacob joins us with the rare look inside the trump administration detention center for migrant children. it's supposed to be a shelter but jacob says the kids are incarcerated. "morning joe" is coming right back. ur getting serious thing. that moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. that one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of everything. buy one iphone 8 and get one iphone 8 on us. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit att dot com.

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good morning, it's thursday, june 14th. welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. aide to the white house state department, alice jordan. joe, i'm going to dive in with, gotta show this and then we'll assess. look at this interview that aired on fox news last night. president trump, again, seeming to share his admiration for autocratic rulers, praising china's xi for his iron grip on the government and kim jong-un's brutal treatment of imprisonment and those who suspects of hurting his regime. take a look.

>> i have a great relationship with president xi of china. he's an incredible guy. essentially president for life. that's pretty good. chairman kim wants to resolve the problem. we have a very, i really say, for a fairly short term relationship. it was unbelievably hostile, the rhetoric. rhetorically, it was unbelievably hostile. i think we have a very good relationship. we understand each other. >> you call people, sometimes, killers. he is a killer. he is executed people. >> he's a tough guy. hey, when you take over a country, tough country, tough people and take over from your father, i don't care who you are, what you are, how much of an advantage you have, if you can do that at 27 years old, i mean that's 1 in 10,000 that can do that. he's a very smart guy, a great negotiator. i think we understand each

other. >> he's still done really bad things. >> yeah, but so have a lot of other people done bad things. i could go through a lot of nations where a lot of bad things were done. >> joe, i'll let you start things off this morning. >> you really can't go to any other countries that are quite as repressive and brutal and north korea is. you can't find an example of a country on the planet that's more oppressive, whose tyrant that runs it is more cruel, more bleak. of course, as we all know, an ohio college student went over there and was held captive and brutally beaten to death. pregnant women are made to dance on tables until they dehydrate and pass out. people that have to go before

kim have to do so crawling on their knees. people who are in disfavor, even in his own family are tortured and killed. as willie said earlier this week, read the u.n. report. human rights there are despicable. yet donald trump, i'm writing this down, he talks about how he is a very talented man. he's a great man. he says that president xi in china is an incredible guy. president xi in china, of course, is a man who brutally, brutally still represses the people of china that don't line up under the communist regime. he has seized power over the past year to make him the most powerful leader in china. foreign policy observers and chinese observers say since the chairman responsible for killing 40 to 60 million of his own

people. how revealing that donald trump praises president xi and says he is an incredible guy because he is able to be president for life and how incredible he called the most cruel dictator on the globe a great guy and defends him and says you have to do what you have to do. we kill a lot of people, too. as i heard that, i know, mika, you and willie and mike and everybody else on set had to go back to the interview with donald trump december, 2015, three months before the first republican primary, where we had to press him on continuing to praise vladimir putin and could not get him to criticize putin for assassinating political rivals and killing journalists he didn't like. let's go to that tape. it's like what brett baier heard

yesterday. >> especially when the president heads up russia. >> yeah. >> i mean, also a person who kills journalists, political opponents and baits countries. obviously, it would be a concern, would it not? >> he is running his country. at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country. >> again, he kills journalists who don't agree with him. >> well, i think our country does plenty of killing, also, joe. there's a lot of stupidity going on in the world. a lot of killing and stupidity. that's the way it is. you didn't ask me the question, you asked me a different question. that's fine. >> i'm confused. you obviously condemn vladimir putin killing journalists and political opponents, right? >> oh, sure. absolutely. >> yep. he just couldn't do it. >> sure, absolutely. >> he couldn't do it.

but, you know, willie, what's so revealing, we know this. america knows this now. members of donald trump's political cult know that he admires tyrants. he admires strong men. what is so striking is who donald trump considered to be america's greatest friends and who donald trump considered to be america's greatest enemies. america's greatest friends, china and north korea. america's greatest enemy and donald trump said it himself, the free press is america's biggest enemy. that free press guaranteed by the first amendment to the united states constitution, donald trump considers to be america's greatest enemy. >> by the way, that posture has permeated through. you have the secretary of state,

mike pompeo, yesterday, barking at a reporter for asking for verification on the nuclear outline or deal or whatever they put together. that's become the message, the line, right on down through the administration, the press shouldn't be asking questions. you know, joe, i wrote down, immediately as i was listening to the clip before you got into it, that december 2015 interview we did with donald trump. that turned out to be a preview of coming attractions. president trump responds to what he views as strengths. i don't view what kim jong-un and i don't think you view what kim jong-un does as strength. he views prime minister justin trudeau as weak based on his perception of what strength is. it has real world implications now. you have the president of the united states believing in order to make a deal to get rid of north korea's weapons, he has to

impart upon kim jong-un the flattery he expects from others upon himself. as anybody can tell you, you don't have to do that to get the deal. you can do two things at once. kim jong-un is a bad guy who does bad things, but i want a deal to get rid of nuclear weapons. he doesn't seem to know how to do that. >> you look, though, mika, let me get a mike for a second. if you look at all the things, mike, donald trump said about autocrats, tyrants, rulers, whether they are in russia, north korea or china, whether they are in the philippines, whether they are in turkey, wherever they are. you just -- you just take the transcript of everything he said since he has run for president and compare it with what he said about democratic institutions. the democratic institutions that are the most important uphold the constitution of the united

states, whether it's our intel community, whether it's our cia, whether it's our fbi, whether it's our justice department, whether it's law enforcement personnel, whatever it is. whether it's democratically elected allies or nato, put that into a computer program. you don't need a republican or democrat or journalist to come to a conclusion. it would conclude beyond a shadow, beyond a reasonable doubt, that donald trump admires autocrats and somebody i think said it very well, that trump admired kim because of kim's ultimate power to kill anybody that crossed him and kim admired trump because of the power his position held. that's how we have this -- this -- this romance blooming in late spring, early summer. >> they are well matched, the two of them. let's stipulate, joe, for the

audience as well as people who still favor donald trump, let's stipulate that it's a positive to have two men, trump and kim, sitting down together talking, rather than threaten each other and threatening world peace through tweets. the larger problem, you just indicated it, is what donald trump continues to do to the institutions of america, the justice department, the fbi. we have spoken about that. but, america, as an idea, for 75 years america tor, to the worlds been an idea. 74 years ago, this month, this day, we were off the beaches, along the coast of france. we were inland and left behind, already, 74 years ago today, thousands of casualties who were there forever in american cemeteries. we went there seeking not treasure or property. we went there to free europe and

to free the world from the threat of adolf hitler. >> mike, who went there? who went there, mike? christians went there. jews went there. >> yes. >> american muslims went there. american atheists went there. black americans went there. native americans went there. you go -- we all went over there as a country and as general mike hayden said recently, i loved how he said this. he said we are a creed l nation. yes, there's diversity. what unites us? that special ingredient is, we are a nation that believes in a creed. the creed is this. read the document, understand the document, believe in the document and pledge your loyalty to the document. great. you are an american. come on in. that's what we are.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we have spent time in the last conversation dissecting president trump's clear affinity for strong men leaders. that, of course, extends to vladimir putin. >> i'm not for russia, i'm for

the united states. as an example, if vladimir putin were sitting next to me at the table instead of one of the others, having dinner, i would say can you do me a favor? would you get out of syria? would you do me a favor? get out of ukraine, you shouldn't be there. just, come on. i think i would have a good relationship with him, or be able to talk to him better than if you call somebody on the telephone and talk. i will tell you, as an example, if he were at that meeting, i would ask him to do thing that is are good for the world and the country and good for him. a reporter asked if we would be better off with russia. absolutely. we spent so much time talking about russia. wouldn't it be better if they were here? they agreed with me. i'm not sticking up for anybody. i'm just saying this, he didn't

respect our leadership previously. he walked all over them. look what he did to obama with crimea. he took crimea. he took ukraine. i mean, sections of ukraine. >> which is why he got kicked out of the g8. >> he didn't respect our leadership. he didn't respect it. this wasn't me. >> it's really hard to put into words what i just saw and alise, for me, as a daughter of a former national security adviser, probably one of the greatest minds on geo political relations around the world and strategies, that sickens me to hear him speak that way, to be so flip, pompous, so arrogant, so stupid about history, so shortsighted and so unbelievably confident in nothing. he has no clue what he's doing

and our prayers will rest on the people around him. i think we better get with the program. no one can do anything under him that is affective. i'm concerned for mike pompeo. i'm concerned for general mattis and republicans in congress who have the opportunity to right this ship and are not taking it. i feel like we are on the edge of a huge crisis. >> mika, that exchange was just so utterly ignorant in the content of him, donald trump believing he could sit down with vladimir putin and say, get out of syria and he would do it. get out of crimea and he would do it. why not bring me a unicorn while you are at it? that's not how vladimir putin operates. it's not how he's ever operated. if anything, vladimir putin feels incredibly empowered because he interfered in our election and donald trump's

egois keeping him from admitting it and looking into it to make sure it will never happen again. so, that is such a fundmental misunderstanding by donald trump of vladimir putin and his motivations that, yes, it's truly petrifying. >> it's petrifying. it is. coming up on "morning joe," president trump suggested there is no way michael cohen will flip. new developments may suggest otherwise. we'll talk about that, straight ahead on "morning joe."

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now to new revelations involving the president's attorney michael cohen. he is expected to split with his current attorneys. a fee dispute is among the reasons for the change in counsel. the report from george says cohen is likely to cooperate with the investigation. nbc news has not been able to confirm that part of the story. people familiar with the matter tell nbc news cohen has not spoken to prosecutors about what

he could offer. tomorrow is the deadline for cohen's attorneys and the trump legal team to identify which materials seized from the cohen raid should be attorney-client privilege. the president has personally told people around him he is angry at cohen over the messiness of the situation, especially those aspects involving stormy daniels. quote, the president indicated he is worried if he pushes cohen away too hard, it increases the likelihood he will give the government information. rudy giuliani reacting to the news last night. >> he is not cooperating. what do we care? the president did nothing wrong. we are comfortable, if he cooperates, there is nothing he can cooperate about. michael cohen has nothing incriminating about the president. they should stop going after him and torturing the guy.

>> as the pressure intensifies and legal bills mount, they cite people familiar with the situation says cohen is feeling neglected by the president. cohen has not been charged with any crime. let's bring in former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, joyce vance. good morning. always good to see you. this is the question the michael cohen, will he flip and what does he have to offer the government? what is the significance of him getting rid of his lawyers? >> i would be careful about reading too much into it until we know more details, but we have seen this similar sort of change up in legal team before both general flynn and pal manafort's co-defendant, mr. gates made the decision to cooperate with the government. it could be in that direction. it could mean cohen is running out of money to pay his lawyers.

>> joyce, we have heard reports from several sources and also from people who know cohen personally, he is wanting to make a deal with the southern district of new york for quite some time now, but they have not come forward with that deal. why would they not come forward with the deal? do they want to make him more desperate or do they think they have, of course you don't know, why would they not come forward with a deal if they have a guy reaching out to them, wanting to cooperate? >> so, one thing i think is important for us all to think about is despite the narrative trump is pushing, prosecutors aren't trying to torture people. prosecutors are investigating evidence of crime and it's not as though prosecutors are out targeting people. the targets bring themselves to prosecutors by their own conduct. so, folks in the southern

district of new york are meticulously going through evidence. if they reach a point where it seems likely that cohen's cooperation could benefit them, they will reach out to him. it may be they are not at that point, yet, where they know enough about his conduct to need his cooperation and, typically, prosecutors do reach out to defendants and try to negotiate a plea agreement, even if it won't involve cooperation. the overwhelming majority of cases don't go to trial and are resolved via plea agreement. coming up on "morning joe," thousands of children that entered the u.s. are being housed in a former walmart. msnbc's jacob got a firsthand look at that detention center, including the artwork they are greeted with when walking through the doors. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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i'm guessing that was to happen. >> that's what they are going for. what is your name? >> senator jeff merkley. >> jeff? >> i have been asked to leave the property. i will comply with that. >> that was democratic senator jeff merkley last week, turned away from entering a facility that houses undocumented immigrant children. joining us, jacob, our msnbc correspondent. you were one of the first journalists inside that facility. tell us what you saw. >> reporter: it was shocking is the best way to describe it. there are around 1500 kids inside there. it is the most crowded it has ever been. they call it a shelter. i have been inside prison and county jails. they are incarcerated inside this place. they can't move around freely.

they can go outside for two hours a day during the week. it's only getting worse there. the trump administration announced a zero tolerance policy you were talking about for separating children from their families when they cross the border illegally. our colleague put it this way, this is a self-inflicted crisis. it does not have to be overcrowded in facilities like this, but it is because the attorney general and the president of the united states decided to prosecute, 100% in their ideal circumstance imgranlts that come over the border illegally. >> jacob, it's willie. your reporting has been incredible and opened people's eyes to this in the last few hours, really. a couple questions. first, who, exactly are these kids and why are they being detained? why do you suspect the government let grow inside? >> reporter: they are

10-17-year-old boys, willie. where are the 0-10-year-olds? where are the girls? >> right. >> reporter: this is 1 of 100 shelters in 17 states like this throughout the united states. most of these kids are here because they crossed the border by themselves. they are unaccompanied alien children. 30% now are separated from their families under the trump administration policy. this was not happening before as a deliberate policy by any other presidential administration. this is a creation of the trump administration. the reason, i think, they let us in here, this is run by the department of health and human services, contracted out to nonprofit. the quality and care the kids get inside here is not bad. it is clean inside. they are not in cages or jails, although, an employee said to us

they feel like animals in cages. there's no other scenario, other than being incarcerated in prison to describe what it is like. they wanted to let us in to know this is as good as it gets if the tent cities that everybody is talking about and kids start to be moved there, the leader of this center told me on federal property, they don't have to be licensed child care protectors. it is an emergency situation and all quality of care is called into question. >> so, jacob, the facility itself, where these young people, children, 10, 11, 12 years old are being held, how many windows are there inside? >> reporter: how many windows are there? is that the question? >> yeah. >> reporter: zero. like i said, they are inside there for 22 hours a day. they get to go outside for one hour of structured recreation

and one hour of kind of a free play. the closest they can get to being outside is i saw them watching a movie in a former walmart loading dock for 18 wheelers pulling in to drop off merchandise. that's the closest they get to being outside and they look through opaque windows. >> do they eat at the same time every day? >> reporter: they eat on a rotation. this is handout footage. we were not allowed to bring cameras in there. they eat in shifts. there's 1400 kids in there, almost 1500 and they eat on a rotating schedule, 350 kids at a time. it's like chow in a prison. >> is it a menu or specific -- >> reporter: no. no, no, no. when i was in there, piece of chicken, vegetables, a thing of

jell-o and, you know, wasn't like a school cafeteria. they have a limited amount of clothes they can wear, you know, go to the showers at a designated time. they go to school for six hours. the calls coming out is determined, not by them. it's, you know, it's incarceration. >> do they have cell phones or access to communication on them? >> reporter: no cell phones on them. they are able to go to, basically, a complaint phone if they want to file a complaint with children's services or call a nonprofit organization or medical center. there is a medical staff of 48 people, three doctors on call all the time. in terms of connecting with their parents if they are separated from their parents, that call has to be originated where the parent is. now that -- you know, before, if you crossed the border illegally, you went to i.c.e., a family detention center, if you

came as a family. not that that's good. the family was kept together. now, these parents are being charged with a federal crime, going to federal prison and the calls from the parents and the kids have to be scheduled through a federal penitentiary. >> willie, they are incarcerated? >> it certainly sounds like it. jacob, there is another striking image you shared of a mural of president trump on the wall, there in the cafeteria with a quote. the quote reads, sometimes losing a battle, you find a new way to win the war. actually comes from a former tweet from the president of the united states. what is the message that mural sends and what are they trying to say with that quote? >> reporter: you know, you know as well as i do. i cannot imagine. the shelter itself at hhs, when i posted this last night, wanted me to be very clear, there are 20 murals of presidents inside here. they make a big focus on american history inside. but, again, the reason it's

overcrowded is because the man that we are looking at on the screen and the philosophies that he puts forward. so, what must it be like to be, you know, between the ages of 10 and 17, a boy away from your entire family, alone and apart. you know, every day, look at the face and mural of the man who is resulted for increasing number of people ripped apart from their family and sent to a place like this. >> jacob, thank you for your reporting. we want to bring in a professor at the lyndon b. johnson affairs. victoria, i'm not sure where to begin, but i would like your response to jacob's reporting that you just heard. >> sure. let me give you a little historical context, mika. we have been dealing with the issue of unaccompanied minors and the surge of children

crossing the border since 2014. there really has not been stemming in that tide, even though we have a zero tolerance, get tough on immigration. the numbers continue to flow. it doesn't matter how many shelters we build, how we separate families from their children, if we erect tent cities, that is not going to change the fact these children and families are going to continue coming over for two reasons. first of all, there is a continued demand for migrants. that's the economic side. the second is the united states is not actively engaging with the central american countries that are sending these children. so, instead of saying we are going to fortify the border, we should be talking to hon dduras and how to stem the violence in your country so these people don't have to flee. we are throwing solutions at a problem that is not really there. it's not about the border

itself. it's ab it's about the sending countries. >> eddie. >> we can talk about the immigration policy, we can talk about the politics. the politics, what's the moral issue here? we are watching babies cry. to my mind, this is evil. how did you think about this in terms of the moral implication, in terms of the united states image across the world and the image of ourselves? >> so, i have the intellectual view and doing interviews with the mothers with children next to them. i think when we talk about immigration, we can talk about the pros, cons and the law. we can never forget that human component. these folks are human. they have feelings, they have fears. the reason they are coming here is not to game the system, not

to take advantage, but because they want to protect their livelihood in that of their families. earlier, we were talking about the creed of what it is to be american, what it is to be part of the united states. it is about giving that opportunity of life, liberty and freedom. this is what these people seek out and, instead, we are jailing them and treating them like criminals when they are just seeking asylum. >> victoria, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. yesterday, president trump tweeted that the fake news is our country's biggest enemy. as joe pointed out, if you are scoring at home, in trump world, the biggest enemies are the free press, canada and our greatest allies are russia and north korea. we are going to talk about that more, next on "morning joe."

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so, president trump is declaring the press to be our country's biggest enemy. he tweeted yesterday, so funny to watch the fake news, especially nbc and cnn. they are fighting hard to downplay the deal with north korea. 500 days ago, they would have begged for this deal. looked like war would break out. our country's greatest enemy is the fake news. a majority of americans don't see it that way. a national survey from public policy found the majority trust

news organizations over the president. when asked, voters said they trust nbc, abc and cbs more than donald trump. 53% to 39%. those are some numbers there to look at. compare that leadership to our current president with -- of or current president with this, robert f. kennedy once said, quote, each time a man stands up for an ideal, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope crossing each other from the million centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current, which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. robert kennedy's daughter joins us now. she's out with a book, "robert f. kennedy ripples of hope." tonight, she will speak to remember her father's regular si, a legacy so needed to be

reviewed today as we feel empty and helpless. >> well, you know, when i think about my father, i think about his moral imagination. that's what we need in our country so much today. that's what saved us from nuclear annihilation during the cuban missile crisis, his ability to understand what he was going through and that he had his own military industrial complex pushing him towards war. that's also what allowed him to speak to a crowd in indianapolis after martin luther king died. many who came with molotov cocktails and they were ready to riot. daddy got up in front of them and said, for those of you who are angered by this act, i can say, i have had those same feelings because i had a member of my family killed. imagine a political leader, in front of a crowd like that

today, saying i understand your feelings, and yet, afterwards, he said leading the united states is not division compassion towards those who suffer. and i think we need that message today. >> so kerry, the people you spoke with who are a part of this book, all these years later, your father's been dead now since 1968, yeah, all these years later, his campaign, not just the presidential campaign, but his career in the united states senate, the senate nutrition committee, the tour of appalachia, hungry children, black and white, all poor, it was a time in our country when we had a candidate, your dad, who chose to speak in terms of unifying the country as opposed

to the tribalism of today and the fact we have leaders of a specific party, the republican party would try to divide the country. so the people you spoke to, ways their connection to that time or what was their connection to that time? how did they talk about that time in terms of what's going on today? >> so there's a wide range of people in the book. some of them knew my father well and worked closely with him. like john lewis and harry belafonte, and gloria steinem. but others never knew my father but admire him and view him as one of their heroes. people like george clooney and bono, tim cook from apple and howard shultz from starbucks and others. and of course joe scarborough who gave me a great, great interview. but i think more and more, all of them come back to the vision of him as somebody who could bring people together, black and

white, young and old, rich and poor. you know, we have to remember, as bad as it is today in our country, 125 cities were burning in 1968. philadelphia was basically under martial law for weeks and weeks. my father's whole campaign was about addressing poverty and healing division. i think we need -- one of the things he said is peace and justice and compassion towards those who suffer. that's what the united states should stand for. imagine a political leader. a presidential candidate saying that today. and yet that's what americans want to hear. >> joe, when we went yesterday, i believe we were talking to the great folks. and that was their question. who has that voice today? who can strike that balance and

bring people back to the core of who we are? >> well, you know, we're show ago clip right now from bobby kennedy's cape town speech two years to the day he died. kerry, yas you know, that was a speech that the entire government of the united states didn't want your father to give, but he gave it anyway. the police warned him against going in to indianapolis the night of april 4th, 1968. it seems the common denominator is courage. he told people in the inner cities of indianapolis the same thing that he told rich white kids on ivy league campuses. isn't courage the common denominator here that made your father bend history? and that could make somebody do the same today in to 2018?

>> i think it's that same courage and compassion. he was willing to face, overcome fear for the larger community. that's really what courage is about. but he really understood the difficulties that people faced. and i think that was extremely important. but when i think today there are leaders, there are political leaders who are carrying forward my father's work. like i think my great wonderful nephew, congressman joe kennedy, but i also think of pope francis who really has over and over again said we have to have a preferential option for the poor. we have to -- we have to have moral leadership and at all levels of the government and at all levels of the people.

>> the book is "robert f. kennedy, ripples of hope." boy, do we need them. the event, remembering the legacy of robert f. kennedy, is tonight at the newseum in washington. we're back in just three minutes. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. i couldn't catch my breath.

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or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. you know, willie, i'm struck so much by the poll we showed before kerry kennedy came on, showing that despite the fact donald trump calls the media the greatest enemy america faces, which is horrifying, it really reveals everything you need to know about donald trump. but the media, our network, cnn, abc, cbs, "the new york times," "the washington post," far more trusted than the man who demagogues in the white house every day. >> yes. i mean, our approval ratings in

a vacuum aren't great, but head to head there, we still do well. there's a systemic attack on the press. we see it every day. mike pompeo, the secretary of state yesterday, i'll say again, when asked a very fundamental question about the outlines of this north korea deal about ver fa vasierification, how do you verify, he barked back at the reporter, said it was an embarrassing question. not a political question, not a -- >> a mechanical question. >> that is critical to whether or not this is actually a deal. that's become the approach, when you see people across the administration, taking the view and it is a proech and the posture toward the media and trying to emulate it. >> it's just a final thought, it's time maybe to apply a nickname to the president. he loves to apply nicknames to people. this latest attack calling the press the ultimate enemy of

america, it's pretty tedious. so he's tedious trump. that and another final thought, it's time for america actually to set donald trump aside for a few minutes and try to figure out, how to define who we are in this country with regard to these children being incarcerated along the border. who are we today. >> you could also call him soft don because he's so soft on tyrants. >> snowflake don. it seems to me our democracy is in crisis. what's happening to those children is evil. there's no other way to describe it. it's evil. and silence is betrayal. silence is betrayal. so all of these republicans and politicians who are complicit, they themselves, they themselves ought to be held accountable. >> i'm just heart broken because i feel helpless seeing these stories of children kept away from their parents. babies who are taken from their mothers while they're

breastfeeding. it really is a horrifying moment for our country if we've lost our compassion for children. >> agreed. you know, the twitter page from the bbc that actually monitoring what goes on and monitors donald trump actually had this clip of him saluting a north korean officer and of course we know what north korea has done to its people. and willie, my god, we don't have to say what if barack obama did that. what if anybody did that that was president of the united states to a regime that's brutalized and killed their own people and american college students? >> president obama dipping his head to the prime minister of japan, for example, was an outrage that lasts today in conservative circles. i wonder what folks will say about that image. that does it for us this morning. stephae